Honda's offer to Alonso

[ioan]

The Telegraph reports that Honda team bosses Ross Brawn and Nick Fry 'have made Alonso a name-your-price offer'.


http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_3855171,00.html

[ShiftingGears]

Alonso and Brawn. Could be interesting.

[MAX_THRUST]

Yet at the weekend it was heavily reported that both RB and JB would be staying. So which is going to be test driver? RB I guess....

Will Alonso be able to cope with another fast team mate, worse still a BRIT!!!!

[ioan]

Will Alonso be able to cope with another fast team mate, worse still a BRIT!!!!

Did Honda sign Hamilton?! Didn't see any other fast Brit driver out there.

[gloomyDAY]

Did Honda sign Hamilton?! Didn't see any other fast Brit driver out there.Ouch! lol

This is what I had to say on a different thread:


What if Alonso switched to Honda?

Ross Brawn is at the helm, but I think Nick Fry needs to get sacked.
Aside from that, maybe a superstar is needed to make Honda competitive again.

I would love to see a combination of Rubens and Fernando.

[jens]

There seem to be all kinds of rumours around these days, but if Alonso goes to Ferrari in 2010 (which could seem possible), then I don't think he'll go to Honda for one season.

Also I don't think Alonso is interested in "building up a team". If he wanted to, current Renault would be a good challenge for him, but instead of this he probably wants to leave Renault and wants to join a true top team.

[DonJippo]

Alonso will stay with Renault for another year.

[fugariracing]

Alonso and Rubens could be interesting but somehow I doubt RB would want to be paired with another world champ who the team caters to. Honda would have to make some massive aero adjustments to their car for next season if they want to be something more than also-rans. Not saying Brawn and the crew can't do it, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[MadDan]

1 thing to remember is that all teams start with a clean slate.
So i gess Alonso wait till there has been testing on next years honda to see what sort of times they can do.
(it is a pitty that prodrive or another team is not starting next year with a clean slate)
how much say dose brawn have in who drives the car
would he pick someone that he had worked 1 year with or some one that he had worked 6 years with.

[Valve Bounce]

Did Honda sign Hamilton?! Didn't see any other fast Brit driver out there.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!! !!! I bet that one hurt :eek:

[jso1985]

I really don't see Alonso leaving an struggling team for another one.
if he's leaving Renault it's either to Ferrari or BMW

[Storm]

Yes until Honda put out a fast car I don't think that they would attract anyone of the calibre of Hamilton/Kimi/Hamilton.

As for Alonso being afraid of Button? :laugh:

[Dave B]

Alonso gives the impression, rightly or wrongly, of being interested only in developing his career. He wants to be in a top car, and at the moment that means either Ferrari or McLaren. He doesn't appear to be the type to make a long-term commitment, Schumacher-style, to a team and contributing to its development.

All this talk of one-year contracts is doing him no favours in the paddock: why would any team sign him for '09 knowing that he's just biding his time until Kimi retires - assuming of course that Ferrari even want him.

As an aside, have Renault improved by 0.6s this season? :p

[donKey jote]

As an aside, have Renault improved by 0.6s this season? :p

his one has ;) :p :

Alonso gives the impression, rightly or wrongly, of being interested only in developing his career. He wants to be in a top car, and at the moment that means either Ferrari or McLaren. He doesn't appear to be the type to make a long-term commitment, Schumacher-style, to a team and contributing to its development.

Other than Schumacher, though...and perhaps Hamilton given his understandable links with Mclaren since he was a nipper...who has ever made a long-term commitment?

Senna, for example, didn't. The first time Mclaren dropped off being a championship-winning car he wanted out.

Prost had the chance to drive in 1992, albeit for Ligier, but decided on a sabbatical (fully paid for to the extent of a cool £18million by Ferrari with whom he was still contracted) until he could get a Williams drive.

Kimi jumped to Ferrari after presumably getting fecked off waiting for Mclaren to provide him with a title.

Fernando isn't the first...in fact, the alternative option is a very rare one.

[Valve Bounce]

SchM was a one off in nearly everything he did and achieved. When he joined the red team, Ferrari were a basket case, poorly run and managed.

The way I see it, with hindsight I guess, SchM took it as the supreme challenge, bringing to the team the necessary expert management/technicians to turn things around by dint of sheer personal drive. He did whatever he needed to do to win, and Ferrari did win. His team mates were there to support his effort - no question.

I don't see the same drive from Fernando. Don't get me wrong, Fernando is a very gifted driver. But SchM had the determination to push Ferrari to the top. Even with Brawn there, I just don't see Fernando wanting to push Honda to the peak of F1.

[ShiftingGears]

SchM was a one off in nearly everything he did and achieved. When he joined the red team, Ferrari were a basket case, poorly run and managed.

I disagree. While Ferrari were poorly managed in the early 90's, Todt had already started making Ferrari more successful by the time Schumacher joined.

[gravity]

Ross Braun, Rory Burne and MS moved from Renault to Ferrari at the same time. I'm not sure about the reason for Braun and Burne to move, but I think that part of MS's deal to move to Ferrari were that they move with him?

Also, Ferrari had the budget to support the whole idea. Does Renault's budget cover what is required to get them to #1 from where they are? Honda has a nice big budget (insn't Toyota the only other team with a bigger budget?), and that just might be enough of a driving force for FA to move across.

[DonJippo]

assuming of course that Ferrari even want him.

He has an agreement with Luca about going to Ferrari.

[ioan]

Ross Braun, Rory Burne and MS moved from Renault to Ferrari at the same time. I'm not sure about the reason for Braun and Burne to move, but I think that part of MS's deal to move to Ferrari were that they move with him?

Just to put things straight, nothing personal :) , I think it's about Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne.

Cheers.

[wedge]

SchM was a one off in nearly everything he did and achieved. When he joined the red team, Ferrari were a basket case, poorly run and managed.

The way I see it, with hindsight I guess, SchM took it as the supreme challenge, bringing to the team the necessary expert management/technicians to turn things around by dint of sheer personal drive. He did whatever he needed to do to win, and Ferrari did win. His team mates were there to support his effort - no question.

I don't see the same drive from Fernando. Don't get me wrong, Fernando is a very gifted driver. But SchM had the determination to push Ferrari to the top. Even with Brawn there, I just don't see Fernando wanting to push Honda to the peak of F1.

He's a two time champ for nothing and arguably in inferior machinery.

He demanded more attention to himself both at Renault and McLaren, claimed to have found three tenths in pre-season testing last year.

The question is does he want to repeat the effort he made in turning Renault around? Based on this year's evidence it looks like he doesn't want to go through all that again, he'd rather be in a top team like other champs before him.


I disagree. While Ferrari were poorly managed in the early 90's, Todt had already started making Ferrari more successful by the time Schumacher joined.

How? Schumi wanted Brawn and Bryne at Ferrari. Schumi realised the Benetton work ethic, planning and foresight was a missing ingredient in the design office.

[jens]

Well, pre-Schumacher Ferrari was clearly on a rise and we can't praise just MS and his Team for that effort - they were just another step in a consistent rise. Recall 1995. Ferrari managed to stay in the WCC title hunt at least until mid-season - how's that a poor effort? This was something Ferrari didn't manage in 1996 and I suspect 1996 Ferrari may well have been even worse than 1995 Ferrari in terms of competitiveness.


Yes until Honda put out a fast car I don't think that they would attract anyone of the calibre of Hamilton/Kimi/Hamilton.


2 Hamiltons? Maybe they can get one of them! :p :

[Valve Bounce]

I disagree. While Ferrari were poorly managed in the early 90's, Todt had already started making Ferrari more successful by the time Schumacher joined.

Perhaps you'd like to refresh my memory as to how many races Ferrari won in each of the two years before SchM joined them

The word I was looking for is dedication and that is one quality that SchM excelled in.

[Valve Bounce]

Well, pre-Schumacher Ferrari was clearly on a rise and we can't praise just MS and his Team for that effort - they were just another step in a consistent rise. Recall 1995.


:p :

Here, check this out : http://www.formula1.com/results/season/1995/

I don't see the dominance there in comparison to three or four years later, do you? SchM was The Guy, whether we like it or not, who helped turn Ferrari's fortunes around.

[clavius85]

Alonso at Honda would be interesting to watch. But I think it's probably true that he's not interested in building another team. Most likely he'll stay at Renault for another year and see what happens w/the regulation changes. Personally, I hope Renault can get their act together. BMW have now come into the fray, but there need to be more teams competing for race wins for this sport to be more interesting.

[MadDan]

Perhaps you'd like to refresh my memory as to how many races Ferrari won in each of the two years before SchM joined them

The word I was looking for is dedication and that is one quality that SchM excelled in.

http://www.formula1.com/results/team/
San Marino 30 Apr 1995
Canadian 11 Jun 1995

German 31 Jul 1994

[ShiftingGears]

Perhaps you'd like to refresh my memory as to how many races Ferrari won in each of the two years before SchM joined them

1992 0 wins
1993 0 wins (Todt joins)
1994 1 win (German Grand Prix)
1995 1 win (Canadian Grand Prix)

There you go. Point is, Schumacher is brilliant but didn't do it by himself.

[Valve Bounce]

http://www.formula1.com/results/team/
San Marino 30 Apr 1995
Canadian 11 Jun 1995

German 31 Jul 1994

Gee! I'm confused. I thought Damon Hill won the F1 race at San Marino.

[Valve Bounce]

1992 0 wins
1993 0 wins (Todt joins)
1994 1 win (German Grand Prix)
1995 1 win (Canadian Grand Prix)

There you go. Point is, Schumacher is brilliant but didn't do it by himself.

1996 SchM 3 wins for Ferrari
1997 SchM 5 wins for Ferrari
1998 SchM 6 wins for Ferrari

There appears to be a pattern developing here.

Common ioan, help me out here, Buddy!! :(

[kalasend]

Brawn + budget from a top manufacturer + (1/2 * decent offer) = "Hell Yeah"

The only thing left to consider is Honda's commitment. Personally I think Brawn's presence in the team is the answer.

[Valve Bounce]

Brawn + budget from a top manufacturer + (1/2 * decent offer) = "Hell Yeah"

The only thing left to consider is Honda's commitment. Personally I think Brawn's presence in the team is the answer.

No worries about Brawn's commitment - I'm more concerned with Fernando's commitment and dedication if he joined Honda.

[ShiftingGears]

1996 SchM 3 wins for Ferrari
1997 SchM 5 wins for Ferrari
1998 SchM 6 wins for Ferrari

There appears to be a pattern developing here.


And who was it started by? Answer: Not Schumacher.

[MadDan]

Gee! I'm confused. I thought Damon Hill won the F1 race at San Marino.

it was 2nd and 3rd to make the 10 points
2 27 Jean Alesi Ferrari 63 +18.510 5 6 :rolleyes:
3 28 Gerhard Berger Ferrari 63 +43.116 2 4 :rolleyes:

[ShiftingGears]

it was 2nd and 3rd to make the 10 points
2 27 Jean Alesi Ferrari 63 +18.510 5 6 :rolleyes:
3 28 Gerhard Berger Ferrari 63 +43.116 2 4 :rolleyes:

Winning a race is finishing first.

[jens]

Here, check this out : http://www.formula1.com/results/season/1995/

I don't see the dominance there in comparison to three or four years later, do you? SchM was The Guy, whether we like it or not, who helped turn Ferrari's fortunes around.

What I am trying to say, is that MS was one of the factors, but not the only factor in Ferrari's rise. Ferrari's continuous rise started since 1993. Sorry, you can't compare seasons like 1992 and 1995 from Ferrari's perspective - it's like night and day. Surely Ferrari hadn't reached consistent winning or dominance by 1996, because their starting platform was quite low. Every rise takes time.

[Valve Bounce]

As much as I hate to admit it, as I am probably the greatest anti-SchM fan in this forum, I consider that SchM was very much part of the team brought from Benneton which transformed Ferrari's fortunes.

Had SchM remained at Benneton, or joined Williams or McLaren with his team, it is unlikely that Ferrari would have enjoyed the success in the subsequent years post '95 that they did.

This is one argument that I am 100% sure ioan will support.

[Robinho]

As much as I hate to admit it, as I am probably the greatest anti-SchM fan in this forum, I consider that SchM was very much part of the team brought from Benneton which transformed Ferrari's fortunes.

Had SchM remained at Benneton, or joined Williams or McLaren with his team, it is unlikely that Ferrari would have enjoyed the success in the subsequent years post '95 that they did.

This is one argument that I am 100% sure ioan will support.

who is this "anti-Schm" and how do i become a fan of his? ;)

[ioan]

1996 SchM 3 wins for Ferrari
1997 SchM 5 wins for Ferrari
1998 SchM 6 wins for Ferrari

There appears to be a pattern developing here.

Common ioan, help me out here, Buddy!! :(

I completely agree with you Valve. You are right, MS was the one who had the dedication required to bring Ferrari forward, he's the one who anaged to take Brawn and Byrne, and I think Stepney too, from Benetton to Ferrari.

But I'm having enough of fighting with the wind mills on the forum. Often people know squat about F1 before 2000, and many of them before Hamilton. Still they like to make a lot of noise with little facts to support their claims.

I for one didn't like MS before he joined Ferrari, and even then it took me until the '96 Spanish GP to start believing in him, however afterwards it became clear he was the driving force behind the resurgence of the red team.

The people who were part of the dream team, all left the team after he retired, this must mean something!

Cheers!

[ioan]

What I am trying to say, is that MS was one of the factors, but not the only factor in Ferrari's rise.

Certainly not the only but the most important one!

[DezinerPaul]

Bottom line, if Honda did in fact offer Alonso a deal, it will have been with the knowledge, that he has not indeed a contract with Ferrari in place.
While a popular rumor, I doubt that a team would offer any driver a contract three years down the road. After his failure at McLaren (while manipulated or not)there are clearly some questions hanging over the two time champion, regarding his talent and or desire.

[DezinerPaul]

Bottom line, if Honda did in fact offer Alonso a deal, it will have been with the knowledge, that he has not indeed a contract with Ferrari in place.
While a popular rumor, I doubt that a team would offer any driver a contract three years down the road. After his failure at McLaren (while manipulated or not)there are clearly some questions hanging over the two time champion, regarding his talent and or desire.