Why Mac is paddling so quickly ?

[Bagwan]

From F1 complete:

McLarens secret is within the steering wheel
Monday, 21 July 2008
Wondered why Hamilton could accelerate so fast with such little wheel spin? Why he can start so well? Well the answer lies in McLarens steering wheel. It is believed they almost have a manual traction control system on their wheel. Spotted by the Telegraph as follows:

"McLaren's steering wheel features four paddle levers rather than the usual two. The upper two are conventional gear-change paddles, one for upshifting, one for down. The lower two allow different engine torque settings to be chosen. Using two fingers at the same time allows the car always to have the most favourable engine torque setting for each gear, thus giving the driver a tool for limiting wheelspin out of slow corners without then suffering a reduction in power in the higher gears, where wheelspin is not an issue. The rules stipulate that any change in torque settings cannot be triggered by the same driver input as a gear change. Having two separate levers gets around that rule, while still allowing the change of gear and torque setting to take place simultaneously. This is part of McLaren's current performance superiority over Ferrari."





Correct me if I'm wrong , but don't they have to wait 10 seconds before torque settings will change . Wasn't this Lewis's issue at the start earlier in the year ?
If so , how would having paddles be an advantage other than not having to take a hand off ?

[SGWilko]

From F1 complete:

McLarens secret is within the steering wheel
Monday, 21 July 2008
Wondered why Hamilton could accelerate so fast with such little wheel spin? Why he can start so well? Well the answer lies in McLarens steering wheel. It is believed they almost have a manual traction control system on their wheel. Spotted by the Telegraph as follows:

"McLaren's steering wheel features four paddle levers rather than the usual two. The upper two are conventional gear-change paddles, one for upshifting, one for down. The lower two allow different engine torque settings to be chosen. Using two fingers at the same time allows the car always to have the most favourable engine torque setting for each gear, thus giving the driver a tool for limiting wheelspin out of slow corners without then suffering a reduction in power in the higher gears, where wheelspin is not an issue. The rules stipulate that any change in torque settings cannot be triggered by the same driver input as a gear change. Having two separate levers gets around that rule, while still allowing the change of gear and torque setting to take place simultaneously. This is part of McLaren's current performance superiority over Ferrari."





Correct me if I'm wrong , but don't they have to wait 10 seconds before torque settings will change . Wasn't this Lewis's issue at the start earlier in the year ?
If so , how would having paddles be an advantage other than not having to take a hand off ?

Let me get this straight. McLaren now have six (6) paddles behind their wheel now then? Two gear shift, two torque shift, and two clutch?

[tongue in cheek]Where do the paddles for the anti matter partical splitter go, now there is no room left?[/tongue in cheek] :laugh:

Telegraph link below.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/2436986/German-Grand-Prix-Steering-clear-of-trouble.html

[ioan]

The question is how the process is exactly working, is it really paddle shift actuated or not.
I see now why the FIA decided to keep the Mercedes engine in order to check it out.

[DonJippo]

Renault has similar system in use, did FIA took their engines for a check?

[Zico]

We've discussed the ECU pre-set engine maps before, this is nothing new and certainly not illegal.. They've sited the adjuster on the wheel for simple ergonomics/ease of use, lame journalism if you ask me.

[schmenke]

From F1 complete:

McLarens secret is within the steering wheel
Monday, 21 July 2008
Wondered why Hamilton could accelerate so fast with such little wheel spin? Why he can start so well? Well the answer lies in McLarens steering wheel. It is believed they almost have a manual traction control system on their wheel. Spotted by the Telegraph as follows:

"McLaren's steering wheel features four paddle levers rather than the usual two. The upper two are conventional gear-change paddles, one for upshifting, one for down. The lower two allow different engine torque settings to be chosen. Using two fingers at the same time allows the car always to have the most favourable engine torque setting for each gear, thus giving the driver a tool for limiting wheelspin out of slow corners without then suffering a reduction in power in the higher gears, where wheelspin is not an issue. The rules stipulate that any change in torque settings cannot be triggered by the same driver input as a gear change. Having two separate levers gets around that rule, while still allowing the change of gear and torque setting to take place simultaneously. This is part of McLaren's current performance superiority over Ferrari."





Correct me if I'm wrong , but don't they have to wait 10 seconds before torque settings will change . Wasn't this Lewis's issue at the start earlier in the year ?
If so , how would having paddles be an advantage other than not having to take a hand off ?

CHEATERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:































Sorry, it had to be said :dozey:

[wedge]

http://www.gridcrasher.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/49039_2.jpg

[MadDan]

this is a bit like the brake CHEAT

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLaren

At the 1997 Austrian Grand Prix, Darren Heath, an F1 Racing photographer, noticed that the rear brakes of the McLarens were glowing red in an acceleration zone of the track. The magazine discovered through investigation that McLaren had installed a second brake pedal, selectable by the driver to act on one of the rear wheels. This allowed the driver to eliminate understeer and reduce wheelspin when exiting slow corners, or more usefully as slowing one half of the car to turn the car into a corner and so brake later deep into the heart of the turn. Though the car passed scrutineering this system was not entirely legal, but was an innovation, and hence gave McLaren an advantage. As the system allowed one side of the car to be retarded compared to the other the system was considered a type of four-wheel steering which was banned in F1. One notable backer of this complaint was Jackie Stewart; on the grid at Brazil in 1998 he aired this view in an interview with ITV. While F1 Racing suspected what McLaren were doing, they required proof to publish the story. At the Luxembourg Grand Prix the two McLarens retired from the race. This allowed Heath to take a picture of the footwell of Häkkinen's car and the second brake pedal.

[Zico]

this is a bit like the brake CHEAT

How so? As per my earlier comment this seems to be nothing more than a wheel mounted engine map selector.. or am I being really thick and missing something?

The F1 regs are open to interpretation. Ferrari had a mechanical delayed brake bias system on their 07 car which was quite ingenious.. Clever way of getting round the regulations on technicalities.
Innovation is coming up with ideas within the constant changing regulations and should be aplauded not condemed.

[Valve Bounce]

................if the driver hit the wrong paddle by mistake? I know present day drivers are extremely adept, having played numerous hours of video games and done numerous hours of testing.

Just the same, in the excitement of an overtaking move (especially with Sponge Bob) wouldn't it be disastrous if the driver then selected the wrong paddle.

"I'm sorry Mr Steward, but I hit the wrong paddle and took out DC" :p : :D

[Marshall]

Looks like McLaren have gone out on a limb and been a bit innovative, good on them - I don't feel we see enough innovation in F1 these days.

Shame the FIA will probably ban it if its found that the system offers the team an advantage.

[SGWilko]

http://www.gridcrasher.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/49039_2.jpg

More paddles than on an umpa lumpa boat......

Now, if Ferrari are clever, all they need do is jump up and down, hand in the air and shout 'we thought of that first' then the FIA will deem it borne of a Ferrari 'idea' and have McLaren 'thwown to floor whilst stwiking them woughly' (centuwion) :rotflmao:

[elinagr]

all should adapt this now..

[leopard]

all should adapt this now.. Do the williams parts not work properly? :)

[elinagr]

i will ask my English gay neighbour... :D

[Rusty Spanner]

Don't see anything particularly wrong with this. The driver is still selecting which engine map they want to use at any time, McLaren have just been a little clever with positioning the controls to make this really easy to do.

If they choose to ban it then ban it from next year. Any advantage McLaren has from the system is one they've earned legitimately and so should be allowed to benefit from this year. The Telegraph article sort of implies that this has been kept hidden from the FIA, which I don't believe they actually know for certain. There are a lot of faxes and emails sent between the FIA and teams about exploiting loop holes exactly like this.

This is only like the 2nd brake pedal in so much that it is within the rules as they are currently written. The 2nd brake pedal wasn't cheating it just gave the drivers an additional way of controlling traction.

As for the FIA keeping Hamiltons engine I don't see anything strange in that. The engine had just won two races convincingly and was due for change. Seems like the ideal time for the FIA to give it a good check to make sure its all OK to me.

[Mark]

There are a lot of faxes and emails sent between the FIA and teams about exploiting loop holes exactly like this.
.

Yes but quite often they've received the go ahead from the FIA then they've later changed their minds and said it was illegal.

[SGWilko]

Yes but quite often they've received the go ahead from the FIA then they've later changed their minds and said it was illegal.

The FIA? Up to that kind of skullduggery? Never! Really? Are you sure? They wouldn't dare, would they?

;)

I would like to think that this is just a piece of ingenuity from Mclaren.

After all, they'd have to be spectacularly stupid to risk getting caught doing something dodgy so soon after 'Spygate'.

Either that or utterly dishonest and corrupt.

Oh dear.....it's not looking good then.

[Bagwan]

From F1 complete:

McLarens secret is within the steering wheel
Monday, 21 July 2008
Wondered why Hamilton could accelerate so fast with such little wheel spin? Why he can start so well? Well the answer lies in McLarens steering wheel. It is believed they almost have a manual traction control system on their wheel. Spotted by the Telegraph as follows:

"McLaren's steering wheel features four paddle levers rather than the usual two. The upper two are conventional gear-change paddles, one for upshifting, one for down. The lower two allow different engine torque settings to be chosen. Using two fingers at the same time allows the car always to have the most favourable engine torque setting for each gear, thus giving the driver a tool for limiting wheelspin out of slow corners without then suffering a reduction in power in the higher gears, where wheelspin is not an issue. The rules stipulate that any change in torque settings cannot be triggered by the same driver input as a gear change. Having two separate levers gets around that rule, while still allowing the change of gear and torque setting to take place simultaneously. This is part of McLaren's current performance superiority over Ferrari."





Correct me if I'm wrong , but don't they have to wait 10 seconds before torque settings will change . Wasn't this Lewis's issue at the start earlier in the year ?
If so , how would having paddles be an advantage other than not having to take a hand off ?



Please forgive me for quoting myself , but does anyone know if the information that the torque map has a time lag attached to it is correct ?

[ioan]

Please forgive me for quoting myself , but does anyone know if the information that the torque map has a time lag attached to it is correct ?

I don't know about the torque mapping, but I remember reading that the new ECU wouldn't alow the engine mapping to be change in less than a certain amount of time after the previous change.

[wedge]

Please forgive me for quoting myself , but does anyone know if the information that the torque map has a time lag attached to it is correct ?

http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=Ted_Kravitz&id=42139


Now, though, there is a 90-second period from the moment you get up to speed with one map to when you can change it for another.

This was done to dissuade the drivers using a particular map for the start, which would help them get off the line in a way that might simulate the banned launch control.

The thinking was that no one would want to drive with the start map for the first lap of the race.

But guess what? Everyone is using the start map and just living with the consequences for the first minute and a half. This has contributed to some of the first-lap incidents seen so far this season.

The start map effectively ‘softens up’ the power delivery so it is more controllable. There will still be the same amount of travel in the throttle pedal, but the torque comes in more smoothly at the low revs used at the start.

Then, the fun starts. This start map has a big torque plateau where revs rise but nothing happens, then all the twisting power comes in at the top of the rev range. With no traction control, you can imagine this takes a little getting used to.

They’re all doing it because, sad as it may seem, a driver’s best chance of overtaking someone these days is at the start, and a bad start will wreck your race.

[Valve Bounce]

i will ask my English gay neighbour... :D

He has an affinity for paddles, I take it. :p :

[Valve Bounce]

The FIA? Up to that kind of skullduggery? Never! Really? Are you sure? They wouldn't dare, would they?

;)

You're trying to whip up some kind of reaction, I take it. :eek:

[jso1985]

if we gonna yell CHEAT everytime a team makes an innovation... don't come and whine about the "boring" F1 after :dozey:

[Bagwan]

Thanks , Wedge , for posting that .

What then , is the advantage to having this torque map selector paddle(s) on the wheel if it only to be used at the start ?
I can't see one .

In fact , it seems to me to a disadvantage , in terms of clutter , and the possibility of hitting the paddle by mistake .

I think , rather , that it must be something else it is controlling , to achieve the same result . That's based on the idea that the 90 second wait to change settings is correct .


Lewis alluded to this gain , and it may just be something we have never seen before .
I eagerly await the answer to what they've done here to make this extra speed .