Donkey of the Race [Archive] - Motorsport Forums

Robinho

20th July 2008, 14:34

tricky one, Massa wasn't as quick as i think he should have been, but then again way ahead of Kimi - was a bit soft on the overtake, but i don't think thats his strength.

Alonso twice turned a pass into a loss of position and spun, and despite starting over 10 places ahead of his teammate he eneded up 9 places behind whilst Nelson took a podium - i think that shades it for me! Alonso

ioan

20th July 2008, 14:35

Ah sorry, i think Alonso is the most undeserving champion ever so i just ignore him, as far as im concerned he wasnt even on the track!

Massa just moved over and let Ham through despite having a real chance at 1st or 2nd, thats what makes him the donkey cos Alonso never had a chance!

Massa had a problem with the car or the tires, he couldn't close on on Piquet, where earlier in the race he was the second fastest on the track and on average only .4 seconds/lap slower than Hamilton.

SparkyKate

20th July 2008, 14:37

Massa? what?
Alonso and maybe Coulthard for taking Rubens out. Oh and McLaren, for "not" using teamorders.

You forgot to add and for apologising to Ham for making it more difficult than it had to be....he is supposed to be a top class racing driving and this is F1, not a 5yr old in a buggy, its supposed to be difficult and its the top class racing drivers who are supposed to take it all and still win, congrats to him, not apologies!

gloomyDAY

20th July 2008, 14:39

You were watching a different race then?!Apparently! I was watching a race where Massa beat his teammate, who happens to be your favorite driver, all over the track. Qualifying and in the race. I'm not sure that Massa should have allowed Hamilton by so easily, but at least he has a podium and is second place in the championship.

truefan72

20th July 2008, 14:43

DC for being DC and YET AGAIN causing an incident.
I'm sure apologies will follow, and the usual DC perspective.

I wouldn't give it to Alonso, because I think that Vettel was a tad bit aggresive towards Alonso. Also look to see if there are any ramifications for his pit lane overtaking of Alonso.

As for Massa, he gets a strong honorable mentiion, because in a Ferrari, and knowing that he had an advantage over Lewis, he still managed to blow the victory and then get's passed by the one guy he absolutely can't afford to yield to. but that being said, It looked like Hamilton was blazing away in this race aand therefore, it might seem like it was more to do with Lewis than Massa's driving. He did mention real briefly before he took the podium that his breaks were failing. Intersting to see what he says in the press conference.

It does seem that Ferrari were off this entire weekend.

gloomyDAY

20th July 2008, 14:44

You forgot to add and for apologising to Ham for making it more difficult than it had to be....he is supposed to be a top class racing driving and this is F1, not a 5yr old in a buggy, its supposed to be difficult and its the top class racing drivers who are supposed to take it all and still win, congrats to him, not apologies!That's an odd assessment. When you do something wrong, say like almost compromising a race win, it's not alright to apologize? :dozey:

pino

20th July 2008, 14:44

DC :p :

gloomyDAY

20th July 2008, 14:47

DC :p :Yeah, what's with this old man?

Rubens didn't look too happy in the pits afterward.
I'm just waiting to see DC's reaction to this incident.

SparkyKate

20th July 2008, 14:53

Apparently! I was watching a race where Massa beat his teammate, who happens to be your favorite driver, all over the track. Qualifying and in the race. I'm not sure that Massa should have allowed Hamilton by so easily, but at least he has a podium and is second place in the championship.

Yes, Kimi's my favourite driver, your point is??

I'm talking about watching Massa who was the only working Ferrari (also my new team, however grudgingly) and he let Ham past and frankly he didnt need to, Ham would have got past him but Massa just rolled over.

He's driving for the team i support so i'm harder on him then the others and the reason my favourite driver as you put it isnt my donkey is because he wasnt dialed in from the start but still managed to pull 3 great overtaking moves while the cars around him were asleep or doing something stupid, take Alonso for example. That says to me its more a car and driver issue then Kimi not trying, but if it had been Kimi that had basically pulled over for Ham i'd be on here going 'WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT?!!'

Yes Massa got a podium, but unless all 3 cars infront of Kimi had broken down he couldnt have reached the podium with what he had today, Massa could and could have gone higher and made that gap to 1st in the championship less than it now is.

So MY donkey of the day is Massa, cos he let the side down. Alonso was a very close second, but as i mentioned, that doesnt suprise me in the slightest.

SparkyKate

20th July 2008, 14:54

That's an odd assessment. When you do something wrong, say like almost compromising a race win, it's not alright to apologize? :dozey:

Either way, he would have been compromised so no. This is racing, this is what happens.

gloomyDAY

20th July 2008, 14:57

gloomyDAY

20th July 2008, 15:00

Either way, he would have been compromised so no. This is racing, this is what happens.ROFL! That's ridiculous.

"We messed up your strategy Lewis. No apologies here! All your own doing mate."

Yeah, that's very encouraging.

markabilly

20th July 2008, 15:01

ioan

20th July 2008, 15:02

Yes Massa got a podium, but unless all 3 cars infront of Kimi had broken down he couldnt have reached the podium with what he had today, Massa could and could have gone higher and made that gap to 1st in the championship less than it now is.

You have no ideea why Massa was slow after his last pit stop, yet you chose to defend a slow Raikkonen because he supposedly had a slow Ferrari, while Massa getting 3rd in the same Ferrari is worth bashing.

Get you facts straight, because your reasoning stinks. :rolleyes:

Brown, Jon Brow

20th July 2008, 15:04

I was disappointed with Alonso's racing today. Whenever he tried to make a pass he ended up losing two places. I don't think you would see Raikkonen, Hamilton or Kubica making those mistakes.

markabilly

20th July 2008, 15:04

Yes, Kimi's my favourite driver, your point is??

I'm talking about watching Massa who was the only working Ferrari (also my new team, however grudgingly) and he let Ham past and frankly he didnt need to, Ham would have got past him but Massa just rolled over.

He's driving for the team i support so i'm harder on him then the others and the reason my favourite driver as you put it isnt my donkey is because he wasnt dialed in from the start but still managed to pull 3 great overtaking moves while the cars around him were asleep or doing something stupid, take Alonso for example. That says to me its more a car and driver issue then Kimi not trying, but if it had been Kimi that had basically pulled over for Ham i'd be on here going 'WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT?!!'

Yes Massa got a podium, but unless all 3 cars infront of Kimi had broken down he couldnt have reached the podium with what he had today, Massa could and could have gone higher and made that gap to 1st in the championship less than it now is.

So MY donkey of the day is Massa, cos he let the side down. Alonso was a very close second, but as i mentioned, that doesnt suprise me in the slightest.

Ah sorry, i think Alonso is the most undeserving champion ever so i just ignore him, as far as im concerned he wasnt even on the track!

Massa just moved over and let Ham through despite having a real chance at 1st or 2nd, thats what makes him the donkey cos Alonso never had a chance!

You forgot to add and for apologising to Ham for making it more difficult than it had to be....he is supposed to be a top class racing driving and this is F1, not a 5yr old in a buggy, its supposed to be difficult and its the top class racing drivers who are supposed to take it all and still win, congrats to him, not apologies!

Amen!!
got to go, running out of battery

Bezza

20th July 2008, 15:05

Massa, for the ridiculously bad defence of his position - is almost awarded "Donkey of the Race".

But I award it to:

Steve Rider.

For ruining an exciting race by summing it up with "We are running out of superlatives for Lewis, aren't we Mark?"

djparky

20th July 2008, 15:05

Massa- for putting up such a piss poor fight for the lead when Hamilton came up behind him

SparkyKate

20th July 2008, 15:06

My point is that you're probably bitter over the Brazilian's success.
Why the lashing at Massa? Something was obviously wrong with the car. I really don't see how Massa capitulated a position for no particular reason. Massa's times were rolling backwards towards the end of the race.

Ok, for starters, what success?! You have just said he was going backwards and had something wrong with his car?! That seems a bit of a mess thought-wise to me and secondly, no, because incase you failed to notice I SUPPORT FERRARI AND WANT THEM TO WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP! Funnily enough if i then see one of the drivers roll over for a driver who is, it has to be said, a hell of a lot better driver then they are and therefore needs no help, i will call them on it!

VkmSpouge

20th July 2008, 15:07

Alonso had a pretty torrid time, when trying to make up position he lost them instead. While his team mate stole the limelight, Alonso dropped out of the points. That said whoever decided not to bring Lewis Hamilton in during the safety car period was a big donkey today.

SparkyKate

20th July 2008, 15:07

Massa- for putting up such a piss poor fight for the lead when Hamilton came up behind him

...u see! that is my point!

SparkyKate

20th July 2008, 15:09

Amen!!
got to go, running out of battery

lols! thanku!!

SparkyKate

20th July 2008, 15:11

ROFL! That's ridiculous.

"We messed up your strategy Lewis. No apologies here! All your own doing mate."

Yeah, that's very encouraging.

No actually, id be there saying 'that was f'ing brilliant, u are a star and the piss up at McMerc tonight is gonna be oh so long and in your honour!' and straight on the phone to headquarters organising the lot.

Viktory

20th July 2008, 15:12

That one move doesn't warrant donkey of the race though. Sure he could have put up a stronger fight but he'd probably lose it on the straight out of the corner anyway. In that case Piquet should be donkey of the race too. His car was almost faster than Massa at the end. So many massa haters here....
DC and Alonso both had a lot worse races.

Mikeall

20th July 2008, 15:14

Alonso was at least trying hard to overtake, perhaps too hard given that there were always cars directly behind him. However a more conservative race would still probably left him 9th or tenth as he would still have had to pass Vettel and Trulli. At least he kept going to the finish. Comparing his race to Piquet's is unfair as it was all down to a gamble and luck that Piquet ended up 2nd.

I don't know who to blame out of Coulthard and Barrichello, both possibly could have avoided the collision but weren't expecting the other to do what they did.

Nakajima had a poor race finishing behind a Force India and generally not being on form all weekend.

Worst of all was Button for not unlapping himself under the safety car and actually losing 3 or 4 positions as other cars unlapped themselves. What was he thinking?

SparkyKate

20th July 2008, 15:15

You have no ideea why Massa was slow after his last pit stop, yet you chose to defend a slow Raikkonen because he supposedly had a slow Ferrari, while Massa getting 3rd in the same Ferrari is worth bashing.

Get you facts straight, because your reasoning stinks. :rolleyes:

Actually, im not talking about him being slow, because despite you saying he was slow, he still managed 3rd did he not?! i think slow and slower then the top 2 are 2 different things actually.

I wasnt defending Kimi as there was nothing to defend against, i was defending myself.

I wasnt talking about Massa being 'slow' as you put it, but about the Ham overtake.

So please feel free to get your facts straight before starting on me, thanks.

gloomyDAY

20th July 2008, 15:16

Ok, for starters, what success?! You have just said he was going backwards and had something wrong with his car?! That seems a bit of a mess thought-wise to me and secondly, no, because incase you failed to notice I SUPPORT FERRARI AND WANT THEM TO WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP! Funnily enough if i then see one of the drivers roll over for a driver who is, it has to be said, a hell of a lot better driver then they are and therefore needs no help, i will call them on it! Massa is keeping up with Kimi and I find that to be very successful. Isn't it a bit unnerving for Ferrari fans that the underdog is hanging with the 1st chair? My point is that a lot of people have unfairly taken bites out of Massa's rep! This being another occassion, in which Massa gets 3rd but is still thrown out to the dogs.

I also bash McLaren when their drivers get it wrong. I am a fan of Lewis and was the first one to call out the mistake at the Canadian GP, hell I started the donkey thread. Kate, seems like you're neglecting the fact that Massa got a podium. Massa didn't slam into anyone or make silly mistakes and does NOT deserve the title as donkey of the race.

markabilly

20th July 2008, 15:16

lols! thanku!!

yeah but i am beginning to wonder about ice man, as again he seemed inconsistent, many fast laps, but then??

And all these persistent rumors about retiring. None of the other drivers have had these types of rumors for this long (except for MS--who was older and when he had six WDC well, time to go kind of stuff seemed to bring that out...and kim only has One WDC)

SparkyKate

20th July 2008, 15:17

SparkyKate

20th July 2008, 15:21

yeah but i am beginning to wonder about ice man, as again he seemed inconsistent, many fast laps, but then??

And all these persistent rumors about retiring. None of the other drivers have had these types of rumors for this long (except for MS--who was older and when he had six WDC well, time to go kind of stuff seemed to bring that out...and kim only has One WDC)

I think he gets bored when things dont go his way, he was the same at the beginning of last season when he just couldnt set the car up. He's always said he'll do it as long as he can be bothered and i don't think he has the same love of it that the likes of Ham have. I think at the end of the contract next year he will be off doing something else high adrenaline, which is gonna leave me stuffed with who to support!

gloomyDAY

20th July 2008, 15:21

No actually, id be there saying 'that was f'ing brilliant, u are a star and the piss up at McMerc tonight is gonna be oh so long and in your honour!' and straight on the phone to headquarters organising the lot.This is really funny.

No one on the team will apologize for cocking up a race but they'll get you smashed at the party to make up for their blunders. Sounds like a winning proposition. :D

SparkyKate

20th July 2008, 15:26

Massa is keeping up with Kimi and I find that to be very successful. Isn't it a bit unnerving for Ferrari fans that the underdog is hanging with the 1st chair? My point is that a lot of people have unfairly taken bites out of Massa's rep! This being another occassion, in which Massa gets 3rd but is still thrown out to the dogs.

I also bash McLaren when their drivers get it wrong. I am a fan of Lewis and was the first one to call out the mistake at the Canadian GP, hell I started the donkey thread. Kate, seems like you're neglecting the fact that Massa got a podium. Massa didn't slam into anyone or make silly mistakes and does NOT deserve the title as donkey of the race.

Im not ignoring that he got 3rd, im just not ignoring the one move that made me yell at the telly and meant that 3rd was the best he could do. And basically you've just said that although you can bash bloke from ur team Ham because he totally damaged his race, i cant bash bloke from my team Massa when hes done something that i feel damaged his race.

And if in my opinion that makes him the donkey, then he is my donkey, you might not agree but that doesnt change a thing.

gloomyDAY

20th July 2008, 15:33

Im not ignoring that he got 3rd, im just not ignoring the one move that made me yell at the telly and meant that 3rd was the best he could do. And basically you've just said that although you can bash bloke from ur team Ham because he totally damaged his race, i cant bash bloke from my team Massa when hes done something that i feel damaged his race.

And if in my opinion that makes him the donkey, then he is my donkey, you might not agree but that doesnt change a thing.There is a degree of difference.

Hamilton slammed into the back of a parked car in Canada, got penalized for the next race, and did awful at the French GP.

Massa qualifies 2nd, gets held up by Jr., and eventually gets passed by Hamilton who had blazing pace. Still manages third.

See the difference?

SparkyKate

20th July 2008, 15:35

This is really funny.

No one on the team will apologize for cocking up a race but they'll get you smashed at the party to make up for their blunders. Sounds like a winning proposition. :D

Why should you, in the face of a brilliant victory be apologising for what might have been? You should be enjoying the thrill of the win, and he did win, and he won it in style and they didn't actually screw up his race. They couldnt have won with either decision and if they had pitted him he may have been too slow with the new tyres. In the end, they made the best decision because he won.

SparkyKate

20th July 2008, 15:41

There is a degree of difference.

Hamilton slammed into the back of a parked car in Canada, got penalized for the next race, and did awful at the French GP.

Massa qualifies 2nd, gets held up by Jr., and eventually gets passed by Hamilton who had blazing pace. Still manages third.

See the difference?

I see the difference but you miss the point. They both damaged their chances, granted by huge degree of difference, but they BOTH messed up. At this point in the championship where every point counts you can't afford to let anyone past, he should have fought Ham. If he had, Ham might not have passed Jnr n all the other ifs and buts. Ham needed no help and Massa gifted it to him. He shouldnt have. The end.

gloomyDAY

20th July 2008, 15:42

Why should you, in the face of a brilliant victory be apologising for what might have been? You should be enjoying the thrill of the win, and he did win, and he won it in style and they didn't actually screw up his race. They couldnt have won with either decision and if they had pitted him he may have been too slow with the new tyres. In the end, they made the best decision because he won.Your definition of best and my definition are clearly different. Making your driver's life more difficult at a GP isn't my idea of a good decision. A little luck played into Hamilton's hand in order for him to win.

Ron Dennis and Norbert Haug both made an apology, but as usual has been taken out of context. No one was groveling at Hamilton's feet. Just a simple "sorry" and then move on from there.

SparkyKate

20th July 2008, 15:48

Your definition of best and my definition are clearly different. Making your driver's life more difficult at a GP isn't my idea of a good decision. A little luck played into Hamilton's hand in order for him to win.

Ron Dennis and Norbert Haug both made an apology, but as usual has been taken out of context. No one was groveling at Hamilton's feet. Just a simple "sorry" and then move on from there.

I didnt say he was grovelling, just that it was totally unneccessary. They would have been apologising either way today and thats the point.

gloomyDAY

20th July 2008, 15:53

I didnt say he was grovelling, just that it was totally unneccessary. They would have been apologising either way today and thats the point.Sorry, just don't see why this would even be an issue.

Damn! Shouldn't have apologized.

SparkyKate

20th July 2008, 15:54

Sorry, just don't see why this would even be an issue.

Damn! Shouldn't have apologized.

Actually you should, thats what people in the wrong do!!

ioan

20th July 2008, 15:55

So many massa haters here....

Exactly! :up:
And for no reason at all.
The guy is not arrogant and he's doing better than his champion team mate.

Oh wait, he was willing to listen to MS's advices some time ago, this is the reason, the old MS hating is now put on Massa.

gloomyDAY

20th July 2008, 15:57

Actually you should, thats what people in the wrong do!!In the words of Norbert Haug, "Nein!"

SparkyKate

20th July 2008, 15:58

Exactly! :up:
And for no reason at all.
The guy is not arrogant and he's doing better than his champion team mate.

Oh wait, he was willing to listen to MS's advices some time ago, this is the reason, the old MS hating is now put on Massa.

I ask again, who hates Massa?! Why can't you give your opinion on here anymore without getting accused of hating someone or something?! I don't hate him, i just think he should have kept his line! :rolleyes:

SparkyKate

20th July 2008, 15:59

In the words of Norbert Haug, "Nein!"

Hey, you already did!! Too late now!

gloomyDAY

20th July 2008, 16:00

Exactly! :up:
And for no reason at all.
The guy is not arrogant and he's doing better than his champion team mate.

Oh wait, he was willing to listen to MS's advices some time ago, this is the reason, the old MS hating is now put on Massa.I was frustrated when Hamilton passed Massa, but I've calm down a bit. Massa has dialed in his Ferrari very well and is superb in qualifying/racing. Just needs to get a few more podiums at the top spot and the potential is all there.

Tazio

20th July 2008, 16:33

Spongebob,
Naka,
Bunsen, and
Fred!

Not necessarily in that order :p :

F1boat

20th July 2008, 16:45

Alonso and Massa.

jens

20th July 2008, 17:07

The "Crashmaster" Coulthard again. :laugh: I'm wondering whether Red Bull isn't really considering to replace him with Vettel already before the end of the season?! Vettel is bringing WCC points for STR - the points RBR itself would need badly now!

I don't think Massa deserves that much bashing here. Yeah, he failed to catch Jr, but after all he did beat his team-mate Räikkönen this weekend. Massa is no more 'donkey' than Räikkönen, who may have been at times quick and made some passes, but genereally was behind Massa throughout the whole weekend.

Several Alonso's race performances have been disappointing this season and Jr showed at the end of the race that Renault's race pace isn't that bad at all. Wonder, how does he feel about Nelson's success? :p :

Someone mentioned Nakajima - yeah, this time he didn't impress either. Thought he was more of a consistent driver.

VkmSpouge

20th July 2008, 17:15

Massa qualifies 2nd, gets held up by Jr., and eventually gets passed by Hamilton who had blazing pace. Still manages third.

I don't think Massa was ever close enough to be held up by Nelson Piquet Jr.

TMorel

20th July 2008, 17:50

I thought it was obvious, even to Massa that Hamilton was gonna have him.
When he didn't put up quite the fight I expected I was thinking that maybe Massa realised that fighting a battle he would never win would cost him time to Nelson who he might (or at the time I thought he might) still be able to catch. With that in mind it seemed a mature thing to do, let Lewis thru, follow him and maybe have a shot at NPjr.

Mind you, I thought Heikki might have done the same, let Lewis pass, then keep up with him to show "see, I could have done it"

Was let down twice today.

F1boat

20th July 2008, 19:05

I see the difference but you miss the point. They both damaged their chances, granted by huge degree of difference, but they BOTH messed up. At this point in the championship where every point counts you can't afford to let anyone past, he should have fought Ham. If he had, Ham might not have passed Jnr n all the other ifs and buts. Ham needed no help and Massa gifted it to him. He shouldnt have. The end.

I agree. I dislike Hamilton immensley and his victory really pissed me off, but he deserved to win. Massa is a joke.

ioan

20th July 2008, 20:21

Massa is a joke.

Still he's better than a world champion, in the same car! Funny!

gravity

20th July 2008, 21:15

I don't think Massa did too much wrong. LH was going to pass him at that hairpin... no matter what. LH has a reputation for going thru the smallest gap on the inside line... always the inside line. Massa closed the door to an acceptable level (against any other driver). If that was another driver behind LH, they would have swung back to the racing line already, yet LH kept going for the inside line. That made FM look a little silly, but hugging a tighter line into the corner would mean that LH could have switched back and driven around the outside. FM hit brakes as late as possible for him and it was reasonable to think that LH could not hold his car steady thru the turn after entering at that speed (remember Sepang last year? roles were reveresed).

Anyway, I don't think Massa had too many options and calling him a donkey after beating his team mate is rather unfair on the driver.

DC stated at the beginning of the season that he will close the door on other drivers. He was interviewed by Louise and answered her question with something to the effect, "Of course I knew he was there but I closed the door on him regardless". He then proceeded to dive up the inside of Button on a few occasions during the opening phase of the race. Looked like his view on the 'dive up the inside' had changed. When he closed the door on RB later, we can suspect that 'of course he knew he was there but closed the door regardless'.
DC gets my Donkey of the Day award. Will SV get his seat before season ends? Lets hope.

ArrowsFA1

20th July 2008, 21:24

Massa had a problem with the car or the tires, he couldn't close on on Piquet, where earlier in the race he was the second fastest on the track and on average only .4 seconds/lap slower than Hamilton.

I don't think Massa was ever close enough to be held up by Nelson Piquet Jr.
Apparently Massa had a problem with the brakes on his Ferrari:

Q. Felipe was saying that towards the end of the race he had a problem with the brakes and that was why he couldn't attack Nelson (Piquet). Was the braking problem anything to do with the lack of pace in the first stint?
SD: "I think we had a problem of the high temperature of the brakes, that is one of the reasons why he was not able to attack. Generally, he was also not happy about the grip of the car, so he couldn't be aggressive either on soft or hard tyres.
"So that was really the main problem. That is the reason why, in that condition, we were not able even to attack Piquet."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/69359

ioan

20th July 2008, 21:41

Thanks for the info Arrows.

Robinho

20th July 2008, 21:50

ioan

20th July 2008, 22:40

Ferrari look a little bit lost at the moment, which has to be a worry. Massa seems to be gamely battling on, but i don't see him as the type of driver to drag them forward relentlessly, whilst Kimi looks like his head has gone down and doesn't seem to have an answer for Massa at the moment, let alone a resurgent Hamilton.

Ferrari'ss assertion that they didn't expect to be so (comparitively) slow, nor do they understand why the grip wasn't there seems to me a sign of a team that is struggling a little, and for the sake of a title race, i hope they find their way again soon, its a very confusing situation and not one we expect from the modern Ferarri team.

Ferrari has been losing their foot slowly but surely this season.
Their problem isn't that they don't have a good car, but that they can't respond to any unusual situation.

They are simply lucky that they have the best drivers on the grid (IMO).
Massa is simply the fastest guy out there, look at his qualifying pace against a superior McLaren!
Kimi can usually get good results even in difficult situations, and without a perfect car, but for whatever reasons he seems to have hit a low at this moment.

The team lost to fast the key people. MS, Brawn and Todt, they all went within 12 months! That is an unrealistic rate in changing the pillars of a team.
They should have kept Todt around for at least one more year after not securing Brawn's services.

markabilly

21st July 2008, 01:40

Ferrari has been losing their foot slowly but surely this season.
Their problem isn't that they don't have a good car, but that they can't respond to any unusual situation.

They are simply lucky that they have the best drivers on the grid (IMO).
Massa is simply the fastest guy out there, look at his qualifying pace against a superior McLaren!
Kimi can usually get good results even in difficult situations, and without a perfect car, but for whatever reasons he seems to have hit a low at this moment.

The team lost to fast the key people. MS, Brawn and Todt, they all went within 12 months! That is an unrealistic rate in changing the pillars of a team.
They should have kept Todt around for at least one more year after not securing Brawn's services.

Not sure about the drivers as to massa, but all the rest is undeniable. And to have MS out there, so as to not repeat another performance like the last race, or whatever he was suppose to actually be doing....well, why would either FA or LH want to go there right now, yeah maybe the name, but if the path does not change soon......... :(

ShiftingGears

21st July 2008, 02:05

Alonso - frequently messing up passing moves.
Raikkonen and Kovalainen - underwhelming.
Massa - having poor racecraft. He needed to defend better than that, and didn't.

jso1985

21st July 2008, 03:36

Coulthard for showing that having 8 races left in F1 is too much!

1st finalist - Alonso

and the "certainly didn't do their best award" to Massa and Nakajima

mstillhere

21st July 2008, 04:02

Yes, Kimi's my favourite driver, your point is??

I'm talking about watching Massa who was the only working Ferrari (also my new team, however grudgingly) and he let Ham past and frankly he didnt need to, Ham would have got past him but Massa just rolled over.

He's driving for the team i support so i'm harder on him then the others and the reason my favourite driver as you put it isnt my donkey is because he wasnt dialed in from the start but still managed to pull 3 great overtaking moves while the cars around him were asleep or doing something stupid, take Alonso for example. That says to me its more a car and driver issue then Kimi not trying, but if it had been Kimi that had basically pulled over for Ham i'd be on here going 'WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT?!!'

Yes Massa got a podium, but unless all 3 cars infront of Kimi had broken down he couldnt have reached the podium with what he had today, Massa could and could have gone higher and made that gap to 1st in the championship less than it now is.

So MY donkey of the day is Massa, cos he let the side down. Alonso was a very close second, but as i mentioned, that doesnt suprise me in the slightest.

I absolutely agree with everything you said. Massa has been ahead of Kimi only because both cars are being set up according to Massa driving style, like somebody else wrote in a different thread. Massa, like Lewis only wins if they start from the P1. Kimi, unlucky as he is, puts his heart out when racing. He rarely drove/drives a car that fits HIS driving style. Even when he was at McLaren's. Despite all that, he is not far from the Lewis nor Massa. And who knows, maybe in the end (see last year) his hard work might be rewarded.

gloomyDAY

21st July 2008, 05:20

I absolutely agree with everything you said. Massa has been ahead of Kimi only because both cars are being set up according to Massa driving style, like somebody else wrote in a different thread. Massa, like Lewis only wins if they start from the P1. Kimi, unlucky as he is, puts his heart out when racing. He rarely drove/drives a car that fits HIS driving style. Even when he was at McLaren's. Despite all that, he is not far from the Lewis nor Massa. And who knows, maybe in the end (see last year) his hard work might be rewarded.Let me get this straight!
Are you saying that Kimi has little say in terms of car setup? Blimey.

Massa works just as hard in that Ferrari as Kimi. This time around one teammate beat another square and fair. Also, capitulation is NOT in Massa's interest. Hamilton was able to pass because of superior race pace. I don't think Felipe wanted to waste time defending if he would lose sight of Jr. up ahead.

Storm

21st July 2008, 08:24

Donkey is the driver I like - Fernando Alonso
Messed up too many passing opportunities and let Kimi through twice when trying to pass Vettel....also the pit-lane squeeze which Vettel put on him probably made him really mad but that meant he lost his cool and didn't drive a good race and ended out of the points when he would have got P7 atleast.

Dave B

21st July 2008, 08:49

Donkey of the race: James Allen. He sounded positively bored at times.

Knock-on

21st July 2008, 09:18

Nakajima for me. Was all over the shop.

Alonso had a really tough race and seemed to lose his head a bit. At least he tried to pass though.

I can't see why Massa is mentioned for his performance this weekend. I thought he had quite a solid weekend and you can't blame him for being passed by Lewis. He had no answer for the maraudering brit but nor has anyone else at the moment. It looks like the McLaren and Ferrari are pretty even now and the drivers are what this championship is all about.

gm99

21st July 2008, 11:42

Alonso wins this "award" hands down - losing positions twice in botched-up overtaking attempts, then spinning on his own.

Coulthard deserves an honorable mention for yet another avoidable contact.

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned Trulli as of yet - having started in 4th, he was basically going backwards and then gave away a points-scoring position to Vettel by making a mistake in the closing stages.

dc10

21st July 2008, 12:12

Nakajima - spinning for no reason on a dry track.

donKey jote

21st July 2008, 15:01

Alonso for going backwards like a donkey. :mad:
The first time in my donkey life that I actually cheered for Hamilton... and this in a full restaurant in the middle of Spain !!! The reason -apart from a memorable, aggresive drive- was the absolute donkeyholes at the table next to me (my brother-in-law managed to time lunch perfectly at the only place with a TV in a 50km radius). Typical of those gits that pulidor mentioned at the start of Alonsomania, they never stopped going on about "el pxxo nxxxo"* this and that, "Alonso spun so it must be the car", etc. Not even your typical Spanish "botellon" yobbo bunch, but a respectable looking middle-aged extended family. :rolleyes:
If only I'd known I would have stayed in my pothole and gone for a second attempt at the "Paso del Chumino" :p :

/donks/

(* untranslatable - unbelievably ignorant nickname that the ignorant (m)asses in Spain give Hamilton without a second thought. Much worse than the infamous Barcelona "fans" in my view)

Knock-on

21st July 2008, 15:12

Alonso for going backwards. :mad:
The first time in my donkey life that I actually cheered for Hamilton... and this in a full restaurant in the middle of Spain !
the reason -apart from a memorable, aggresive drive- was the absolute donkeyholes at the table next to me (my brother-in-law managed to time lunch perfectly at the only place with a TV in a 50km radius) - typical of those gits that pulidor mentioned at the start of Alonsomania- they never stopped going on about "el pxxo nxxxo"* this and that, "Alonso spun so it must be the car", etc. Not even your typical Spanish "botellon" yobbo bunch, but a respectable looking middle-aged extended family. :rolleyes:

If only I'd known I would have stayed in my pothole and gone for a second attempt at the "Paso del Chumino" :p :

/donks/

(* untranslatable - unbelievably ignorant nickname that ignorant asses give Hamilton in Spain without second thoughts. Much worse than the infamous Barcelona "fans" in my view)

I've heard them say "mierda NXXXX" before. My pigeon Spanish may have lead me to utter "Cerdo" under my breath.

You will have to PM me a couple of good replies as I'm back out there Wednesday :D