How do you like the new IRL? [Archive]

The instant classic

9th July 2008, 02:00

Well, it's mid season. How are you enjoying the 2008 IRL championship?

What are some of the best and worst things about IRL racing this year?
so far the IRL year has been up and down, but still nothing to go nuts over,
so far there really wasnt been any great races this year, it seems like there is no passing this year, afew races this year i have almost falling asleep watching, but what have i enjoyed? well the only thing i can say is new drivers on track, i just hope the 2nd half of the year is better then the frist half,

!!WALDO!!

9th July 2008, 02:22

New IRL? Looks kind of like last year just more squid on the track but 2009 will be back to 20 to 22 cars.

FormerFF

9th July 2008, 03:24

I liked the St. Pete race, but the last two weren't very good. It didn't seem like there was much passing in the Richmond race, and the Watkins Glen race was kind of embarrassing.

!!WALDO!!

9th July 2008, 03:31

I liked the St. Pete race, but the last two weren't very good. It didn't seem like there was much passing in the Richmond race, and the Watkins Glen race was kind of embarrassing.

You know over my 75 CART races and 56 USAC races I saw many races where there was not much going on as far as passing. Just wrote about the 1968 Sacramento race and Foyt leading laps 1-100. That was the third race of that year in which that occured.
4 years earlier in the first 5 races 3 were 1-100 all by one driver. Open Wheel can have that happen at any given time.

One of the most competitve fields at Indy was 1970 and Al Unser went out and led 190 laps. It happens and the next race could be extremely competitive or extremely boring.

I will not know as I will be watching the Sprint Cup at Chicagoland.

fugariracing

9th July 2008, 05:05

It's not a new IRL. It's the same monotonous drone just with more cars. And even some of the new ones are in doubt for down the road, pending the TEAM money and/or sponsorship.

Milwaukee I thought was a great event, being there I saw much more passing than was shown on TV, plus the stands were packed for the first time in eternity. St. Pete was ok, rain is always interesting.

But most of the races have not had a lot of excitement, and the TV coverage has been bad, and the media has not made the same constructive criticism of the unified series that they did all last year of CC. Very interesting to note.

ShiftingGears

9th July 2008, 05:45

Needs more road courses. Namely, Road America and Mont Tremblant.

Rogelio

9th July 2008, 06:18

Honestly? As a former CART/Champ Car fan for nearly 20 years, I am struggling considerably to be interested in the ICR League. Certainly, you can dismiss my complaints as being nothing more than that of a sore loser, whose league simply capitulated. But, for me there are other pressing issues.

1. Loved the Indy 500 and saw it with more interest.
2. Hate the huge disadvantage that the CC teams have (so be it, even though Rahal won a race).
3. The cars are ugly and sound horrible!
4. I am looking forward to the rest of the season since there are more road courses; meaning Danica will surely not win on these courses.
5. Looking forward to seeing PT in a car (hopefully).

I am doing my best trying to be interested in ICR but it has not been easy. I am certainly questioning myself as to whether I will wait a few years for the new cars, but in the mean time, only time will tell.

I want ICR to succeed, but my passion for AOWR has certainly diminished. Even when CC was floundering, I supported the series 100% and never missed a race on tv. Now, I am drifting more toward NASCAR and F1. Hopefully, with time, sponsorship, money, quality drivers and teams, former CC venues and a better tv package will turn the series around.

I am sure that many of my complaints/concerns are no different than other former CART/CC fans.

speeddurango

9th July 2008, 06:23

I can't really say it's a "new IRL", rather I would like to see it as Indycar or just IRL with a few more cars. The thing is, it's looking good for American openwheel series from all aspect, and new things are coming so I'm positive about it, and I'm really looking forward to a good schedule and then the chassis and engine improvement in the next few years.

AussieV8

9th July 2008, 07:11

IMHO it's a good year. Nothing spectacular, but a definite improvement since the last few years. Just need to lose some of the wannabes down the back of the field and replace them with better drivers so we don't have so many amateur hour moments (like Watkins Glen).

I think this year's IRL is like CART in 2002. Hopefully next year the IRL will be like CART in 2001 (which IMHO was the last really good year for that side during the split)

The way I look at it is that the momentum was with CART from 1995 to 2001. CART started to die in 2002 when Penske jumped and became a lame duck in 2002 when most of the other big teams jumped. From then I think the IRL had the upper hand and been getting stronger every year until 2008 when Champ Car finally gave up.

Civic

9th July 2008, 07:38

I like the road courses. Ovals are okay, but I like superspeedway races (Indy, Michigan, Fontana) more than the short ovals.

MAX_THRUST

9th July 2008, 08:53

Have only seen the STPete race, the UK tv coverage is pants unless you pay sky sports to watch football all year just to watch a couple of races. BAd economics and bad planning by the IRL. Hopefully next year they will sort out a TV package everyone can watch,

BobGarage

9th July 2008, 10:08

the UK tv coverage is pants unless you pay sky sports to watch football all year just to watch a couple of races. BAd economics and bad planning by the IRL. Hopefully next year they will sort out a TV package everyone can watch,

not going to happen. Sky signed a three year extension at the start of the season. We are stuck with Sky until at least 2010 if not longer.

and BTW... I don't pay sky for football. I pay for the rugby, which is far more entertaining than the round ball game and sky probably show more rugby competitions than they do football competitions (Heiniken Cup, Guiness Prem, Euro Challange Cup, Churchill Cup, Super 14, Tri Nations, Air New Zealand Cup, Currie Cup etc etc etc - all you get with football is English and Spanish leagues and the odd international)

BobGarage

9th July 2008, 10:09

New IRL? Looks kind of like last year just more squid on the track

not often I agree with Waldo, but... what new IRL? It s the same IRL as last year.

ask me about what I think of the new irl in 2011 when we have a new car and new engine(s).

BenRoethig

9th July 2008, 11:38

2008 is a transition year, so its kind of a write off. Some contenders (KVR/NHLR) aren't quite up to speed yet and the schedule is both short and imbalanced (first half is oval city, second is roadapalooza) due to prior commitments.

racer69

9th July 2008, 11:43

but 2009 will be back to 20 to 22 cars.

The sad thing is i can see that happening :(

Chris R

9th July 2008, 13:31

Given the circumstances, it is living up to expectations. That being said, I expect better things in the future (whether or not that happens remains to be seen).

Unfortunately, unless the IRL really picks up the game in terms of getting eyes in front of the TV and seats in the grandstands, I think Waldo may be right about the return to 20-22 cars fro next year - I cannot see the sponsorship value at the moment - it looks like TV numbers and attendance are very similar to the past several years....

They also need to change the rules about testing or somehow equalize the cars on a greater number of tracks. The "haves" have too much of an advantage on the bigger ovals - even though many more cars are competitive on the short ovals and road courses - they are also-rans elsewhere.....

They cannot switch cars and engines fast enough as far as I am concerned ...

Waldo is right about the nature of AOWR - even many of the classic races have been pretty boring events - racing is often better on Monday morning than it is the day of the race because it is fun to talk about..... AOWR has always been about the complete game - not just the race......

F1boat

9th July 2008, 13:44

It's a nice year. I would have prefered a closer championship, but it's OK, with many different winners. I like it.

dataman1

9th July 2008, 14:22

Well, it's mid season. How are you enjoying the 2008 IRL championship?

What are some of the best and worst things about IRL racing this year?

The best:

1. More cars on the track
2. More TV viewers
3. New sponsors

The worst:

1. CCWS teams got junk cars and parts while the teams that gave up those cars got new ones in replacement.
2. Last 2 races showed poor driving by many drivers.
3. TV coverage is not good for die hard fans yet may be okay for new viewers. I guess the numbers will tell by season's end.

DrDomm

9th July 2008, 15:26

1. CCWS teams got junk cars and parts while the teams that gave up those cars got new ones in replacement.

Can anyone support and clarify the circumstances of this claim? Is there proof that most of the equipment run by the CC teams is either damaged or inferior in quality? Did IRL teams get any discounts on new equipment? Have CC teams been prevented from purchasing new equipment?

I ask these questions because it seems that CC teams are having quite a bit of reliability issues this year, not to mention performance issues. These same teams seemed to do better with a completely new car last year.

So, I'd have to say that the inclusion of some CC teams into the IRL this year has been very anti-climactic (excluding the Rahal win in the rain). I'm trying to stay positive about the future of Indycar, and I agree with other posters here that a change in formula (or at least new equipment) is imperative. I'm banking on announcements regarding the future manufacturers to keep me interested.

It will be a shame if we lose teams next year, but it's understandable if you're a backmarker and no longer have a chance to get into the top 10 through attrition. The addition of more engine manufacturers will help ensure a 24+ car field. When some of those "lesser" teams are being subsidized to race, they'll stick around.

dataman1

9th July 2008, 17:26

!!WALDO!!

9th July 2008, 17:53

Dr. Domm,

I can not produce a link but I talked with a previous CC team owner and 3 CC team managers at Indy. They all told me stories of damaged / repaired tubs and parts that had been disallowed by ICS in previous rules. One told of a getting parts on their tub that were for a road course yet they got the car just days before Homestead. Later, same day I talked with a team manager with a top 3 ICS team who verified that when the order came from ICS to give up cars they gave up their oldest / most used chassis. (I can't say I would not do the same thing.)

Are they telling the truth? Can't say for sure. Just passing on comments.

More than likely true as I heard the same. The fact is a 2003 Dallara can race in 2008. So the older the car does not mean an uncompetitive situation just that it is older.
They found a place for their show cars but we all know of a show car that ended up in Victory Lane at Indy.

BenRoethig

9th July 2008, 18:51

Dr. Domm,

I can not produce a link but I talked with a previous CC team owner and 3 CC team managers at Indy. They all told me stories of damaged / repaired tubs and parts that had been disallowed by ICS in previous rules. One told of a getting parts on their tub that were for a road course yet they got the car just days before Homestead. Later, same day I talked with a team manager with a top 3 ICS team who verified that when the order came from ICS to give up cars they gave up their oldest / most used chassis. (I can't say I would not do the same thing.)

Are they telling the truth? Can't say for sure. Just passing on comments.

Most likely true. They had to scrape the barrel to get enough chassis by Homestead. To be honest I'm half surprised they didn't pull the G-Forces out of retirement. Its what happens when you have a single chassis manufacturer and a substantial amount of new entires less than two months from the first race. Like I said, this is a transition year. Things weren't ready to go, but thanks to a pair of people who were less than honest to KK about finances, it was what we had to go with. Think of 2008 as a year long test session and 2009 as the first real year of unification.

Breeze

9th July 2008, 18:54

For myself, I did not expect this to be a major imporvement over previous CC or IRL seasons in terms of competition outside of there being more cars. I will say that in spite of equipment deficit, the CC teams are doing better than I expected and that portends well for the day when all teams have equal access to good gear.

The best part of the season so far has been a few real good races, some big AMERICAN names on the podium, and MUCH better press coverage. Number ONE on my list of good things this season is THERE'S ONLY ONE SERIES for everyone who's interested to pay attention to!!!

In summary, a good foundation is being laid for the future, and the future is finally, finally bright!

Indy500'79

9th July 2008, 19:20

Mr Jinxx

9th July 2008, 20:03

All in all it's going pretty well, I think

Points for improvement:
1. TV coverage, particularly commentators. This really should be ramped up, informed and enthusiastic commentators can make even a deadly boring race into an interesting viewing and learning experience. More TV cameras, particularly on road courses, would be beneficial, so the director can see and follow more of the action
2. Stop using FCYs on road courses, it is ridiculous. The race director needs to use discretion, and use local waved yellows wherever possible. WG was a joke.
3. Standard of driving. Everyone makes mistakes, but as this is the premier American OWS now, surely some of the really poor drivers (naming no names!) should be weeded out and/or put through a more vigorous on-track test to ensure they attain a minimum standard.

!!WALDO!!

9th July 2008, 21:54

1. TV coverage, particularly commentators. This really should be ramped up, informed and enthusiastic commentators can make even a deadly boring race into an interesting viewing and learning experience. More TV cameras, particularly on road courses, would be beneficial, so the director can see and follow more of the action

Learning experience for whom? Most of the Open Wheel fans are watching if at a 1.0 so who needs to learn? Road Courses are the most expensive races to broadcast, not an opinion but a fact of life. Road America used to be the only show ESPN/ABC lost money on when they covered it.

2. Stop using FCYs on road courses, it is ridiculous. The race director needs to use discretion, and use local waved yellows wherever possible. WG was a joke.

Then you pay the insurance premium. I explained what happen and putting corner workers in harms way maybe ok in Europe but not here. Insurance also requires every driver that makes contact with the wall be taken to the track hospital, thus the little IRL truck with medical people aboard. So you want that out there when cars are racing, right?

3. Standard of driving. Everyone makes mistakes, but as this is the premier American OWS now, surely some of the really poor drivers (naming no names!) should be weeded out and/or put through a more vigorous on-track test to ensure they attain a minimum standard.

Really, what is the minimum standard? What was it in the CCWS, in CART in USAC and in AAA? A medical physical.
Trust me there will be weeding out and most of this will come from the CCWS side as there is not enough money to go around.
In my day, drivers had 9 to 5 jobs, Monday through Friday and raced a Sprint show at Reading on Saturday night and drove the Champ Cars on Sunday at Langhorne. If they survived that they were back to work on Monday with $500.00.

jarrambide

9th July 2008, 22:18

Waldo, sometimes you make great points (key word here is sometimes), and you do have extensive knowledge that most members would not get any other way, but the problem is that every time you make a point, you believe that they are the final word, from God, to you, to the world.

Writing stuff like "then you pay the insurance premium", "learning experience for whom?" and "I explained", you can explain as many times as you want, but this is a forum, a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged, key word here is exchanged, not imposed.

Members are free to exchange ideas, everyone is free to agree or disagree, you can disagree with any poster you want, but is all in the presentation, if you don´t like people having different opinions or if you believe your words are final, then instead of a forum you should be writing, "The Indy Car racing gospel by C. Waldo Taylor".

This time I´m not trying to joke with you, I´m not trying to be amusing or a smart ass, today I´m trying to do my unpaid job as a moderator, you know, trying to have all this discussion in a congenial way.

jarrambide

9th July 2008, 22:18

Waldo, sometimes you make great points (key word here is sometimes), but the problem is that every time you make a point, you believe that they are the final word, from God, to you, to the world.

Writing stuff like "then you pay the insurance premium", "learning experience for whom?" and "I explained", you can explain as many times as you want, but this is a forum, a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged, key word here is exchanged, not imposed.

Members are free to exchange ideas, everyone is free to agree or disagree, you can disagree with any poster you want, but is all in the presentation, if you don´t like people having different opinions or if you believe your words are final, then instead of a forum you should be writing, "The Indy Car racing gospel by C. Waldo Taylor".

This time I´m not trying to joke with you, I´m not trying to be amusing or a smart ass, today I´m trying to do my unpaid job as a moderator, you know, trying to have all this discussion in a congenial way.

mike15

9th July 2008, 22:21

The start of all races other than ovals should be standing starts.
The Dallara should not be cast in stone as the ICS chassis as has been reported.

The future engines, only one could guess but the positive talk of turbo's is in the right direction.

As for the drivers well they have not produced the most professional of races.

In any event it's the same old same old with more cars that have been frankensteined together from race to race.

downtowndeco

9th July 2008, 22:34

jarrambide

9th July 2008, 22:43

Very happy with the season so far. It seems that the only ones that don't seem to be enjoying it in fact are those who would have prefered the other (now defunct) OW series to be the last one standing.
All right, that´s it, the split is over,everyone get over it if I encounter any more posts like this one in this or any other thread, I´m closing it, no questions ask, no ifs, ands or buts.

I know some of you don´t even really like racing except for feuding, I know some of you would like to fight like in the past, sorry guys and girls, no more split, no more feuding.

This is a forum, again for everyone not paying attention, a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged, different ideas are accepted, it is acceptable to disagree and to dislike some or many things, you don´t like something? tell us why, you think the member that dislikes the season so far is wrong? tell us why you think everything is great, without using the, because he used to be a CC fan, because you are one of the original IC fans, because he likes F1, wah, wah, wah.

downtowndeco

9th July 2008, 22:50

tell us why you think everything is great

More cars. More teams. More drivers. More fans. Better ratings. Better racing (because of the deeper fields). More tracks.

Did I miss anything? I just don't see the need to nick pick an obviously improved product.

jarrambide

9th July 2008, 23:02

More cars. More teams. More drivers. More fans. Better ratings. Better racing (because of the deeper fields). More tracks.

Did I miss anything? I just don't see the need to nick pick an obviously improved product.
Improved doesn´t equal a good product, I´m not saying it is or that it isn´t the case, but just pointing out that the final product can have improvements and still not be good, many fans can accept it is better and stii think is not good.

My point? it is an improvement over last year, it is an improvement over CC´s last season, do I think is a good product?, not yet, if this is it, then please close the doors, but I do think it will be a good product, not this year, not next year, it is going to take time, it will get there, but right now the overall product is still nothing to write home about.

The beauty of no more split is that there is no need to defend the series with our allegiance, we can toss out rose colored glasses and our gray colored glasses and try and be objective.

downtowndeco

9th July 2008, 23:12

Improved doesn´t equal a good product, I´m not saying it is or that it isn´t the case, but just pointing out that the final product can have improvements and still not be good, many fans can accept it is better and stii think is not good.

My point? it is an improvement over last year, it is an improvement over CC´s last season, do I think is a good product?, not yet, if this is it, then please close the doors, but I do think it will be a good product, not this year, not next year, it is going to take time, it will get there, but right now the overall product is still nothing to write home about.

The beauty of no more split is that there is no need to defend the series with our allegiance, we can toss out our rose colored glasses and our gray colored glasses and try and be objective.

If you want me to accept your opinion that it is not a good product then you have to accept mine that I think it is.

Has every race been a nail biter? No. That's because that's the way sports are. Every game can't be the greatest ever. Every race can't have a three wide finish. In general though I think the IRL has a darn good product. I enjoy watching. That is my right.

jarrambide

9th July 2008, 23:18

If you want me to accept your opinion that it is not a good product then you have to accept mine that I think it is.

Has every race been a nail biter? No. That's because that's the way sports are. Every game can't be the greatest ever. Every race can't have a three wide finish. In general though I think the IRL has a darn good product. I enjoy watching. That is my right.

It is not only your right, it is your personal opinion, people have different opinions, every opinions should be respected, and it would be confrontational from my part and very inappropriate to say something like "only Indy Car zealots think the series is doing great and that the racing quality is great", saying that is exactly the same as saying only CC exfans think the series needs to improve.

fugariracing

10th July 2008, 00:05

Baiting and being gung-ho to the beliefs/ideals of one series is better than another should be left at other forums (CCF, TF). From what I have seen and read on these, it's more of an impartial middle ground where different opinions/beliefs can be expressed.

And allowing for constructive criticism should not be a bad thing, in my opinion it has not been discussed enough by the media members of the IndyCar Series. In my opinion there has been too much of a post-unification high and not enough critique or pointing out certain areas of strengths or places where improvement is needed.

F1boat

10th July 2008, 08:40

Honestly I can't see what is not to like about the Indy Car this year. We have what, 6 or 7 different winners from 5 different teams, that's better than F1. It is true that Dixon has an advantage in the championship, but still it is open. Some races were very interesting, some not so - it is like this in every form of motorsport, even in F1 or the Moto GP.
I think that the season is very good.

maxmach

10th July 2008, 15:07

This is is puerly a transition year, so for a cobbled together schedule, and some but not all of the good drivers from the "other" side coming over it has been entertaining. THe thing I like, there is more buzz in the general public, which is what matters. That is what we have to build on. And hopefully we are.

Dr. Krogshöj

10th July 2008, 20:07

I can't judge whether it's a new IRL or not, simply because I'd never seen any IRL race before this year. I was a Champ Car fan, and I started watching this year.

I think it is okay. The cars are uninspiring but most of the drivers are talented and have interesting personalities, and I like the fact that the schedule is so diverse. Once again, you have to master superspeedway, short ovals, road and street courses to be successful.

Some races were good, others were not. Ironically, I didn't really like Watkins Glen because the cars looked kinda sluggish compared to what I was used to last year. But Milwaukee and Iowa were great and Indy was excellent.

jimispeed

10th July 2008, 22:06

For me, there's nothing new about it aside from some Champcar teams with no extra parts, and a few Champcar tracks.

The cars are dogs.

Improvements will have to be made for my tastes in open wheel racing. I want to see a super sexy fast race car that's a **** to handle!!

P2P, and redwall tires would be nice too...

pits4me

10th July 2008, 22:14

So far it's OK - the merger is running more on enthusiasm than real improvement, but I am willing to be patient.

I like:
- the overall mix of drivers
- the number of American drivers
- different winners
- improved crowds
- potential for more road courses

I don't like:
- how far behind the CC teams are - need to bridge that gap quickly - 3 years of this waiting for a new car will not work - throw a wrench in the specs somehow to try to even things up a little
- lack of sponsors - once TG's subsidy drys up, a few of these guys won't be back next year
- Allmendinger in NASCAR

Good observation and certainly not a self-serving one.
There's still a lot of room for improvement and much of what's going on in the ICS paddock is business as usual.

We can only hope that the bees in the background and behind the scenes are looking at the future strategically and not rolling out physchological band-aids as in the past.

Time for fans to put the pressure on Chip to put Franchitti in a 3rd ICS car. Get Tracy the right performance package for Edmonton and Sonoma.

Think about getting Michel Jourdain Jr. in a Team Mexico/Soriana seat with HVM for 2009.