McLaren fine invalid

[cosmicpanda]

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=35328

Well, this changes things somewhat. Will they hold another trial or will they settle it out of court? I can't imagine McLaren being happy to let 100 million go like that.

[ShiftingGears]

Someones going to want their $50m back :p :

[ioan]

Nothing will come out of it, in the best case they get their money back and get thrown out for 2 seasons for spying and cheating. :D

[aryan]

The article merits no value. It is a sensationalist piece by pitpass, as usual.

McLaren lawyers are not dumb you know, they have read the ASN requirements, and either decided it met the requirements, or isn't worth pursuing.

The last thing McLaren needs right now is to have its attention directed toward the spygate saga.

[cosmicpanda]

All the same, it'd be interesting to see if the FIA and McLaren make any public comment about this.

And if some lawyers declare the fine void because of the oversight, wouldn't McLaren be asking their own lawyers some fairly tough questions about why they don't think it is void?

[ioan]

All the same, it'd be interesting to see if the FIA and McLaren make any public comment about this.

Why should they comment on every piece of crap that sees the light on an internet site?!

[tsarcasm]

didn't schumi already spend the money for safety.....just stirring the pot ;)

[inimitablestoo]

No, Max has already spent most of it underground in London ;)

[cosmicpanda]

Why should they comment on every piece of crap that sees the light on an internet site?!

Well, of course they shouldn't if indeed it is a "piece of crap".

However, it is instead a well reasoned argument that concerns the validity of one of their decisions.

They might still choose to ignore it but if McLaren release a statement, then it would look strange if the FIA ignore it.

You might as well ask why Max didn't ignore the "piece of crap" published in the News of the World!

[ioan]

You might as well ask why Max didn't ignore the "piece of crap" published in the News of the World!

I hope this was a rhetoric question, as the answer is pretty obvious.

[cosmicpanda]

I hope this was a rhetoric question, as the answer is pretty obvious.

I'm glad you can see that, and I will say it straight out here: It brought doubt on Max's ability as FIA president to the minds of many. This will too (or at least, it will bring doubt on the ability of the FIA). It was that which I was trying to get you to admit to in the rest of my post, which you so elegantly ignore.

For your convenience:


Well, of course they shouldn't if indeed it is a "piece of crap".

However, it is instead a well reasoned argument that concerns the validity of one of their decisions.

They might still choose to ignore it but if McLaren release a statement, then it would look strange if the FIA ignore it.

[MrJan]

No, Max has already spent most of it underground in London ;)

Should have got himself an Oyster card, it works out much cheaper ;)

[ioan]

I'm glad you can see that, and I will say it straight out here: It brought doubt on Max's ability as FIA president to the minds of many.

Wrong answer. I can see the road you are pulling to go down, and as we have another thread about the subject I will leave you alone in the need for bashing.

[cosmicpanda]

Wrong answer. I can see the road you are pulling to go down, and as we have another thread about the subject I will leave you alone in the need for bashing.

Ioan, I don't plan to bash Max in this thread. I merely brought up that case as supporting evidence for my argument that the FIA should respond to this, which you continue to ignore.

You will note that I have carefully avoided bashing him so far.

Incidentally, why is it the 'wrong answer'? Max himself felt strongly enough about it to call a vote of confidence. If you would prefer to post your response to this in another thread, so be it.

[markabilly]

By now, it would seem to be a final decision. If they were going to fuss, they should have already done so would be my guess such that further argument has been waived. Further given how close they came to a complete ban, they should be happy they got away with what they did. Maybe that explains why they chose not to appeal further, back up the road. Or did their lawyers just wake up?

[Daniel]

I say hold another trial and ban McLaren if they want a fight....

[ioan]

By now, it would seem to be a final decision. If they were going to fuss, they should have already done so would be my guess such that further argument has been waived. Further given how close they came to a complete ban, they should be happy they got away with what they did. Maybe that explains why they chose not to appeal further, back up the road. Or did their lawyers just wake up?

Given that McLaren issued a letter in late December acknowledging that the team used the stolen Ferrari data, they would have a snowball's chance in hell to contest FIA's decision, maybe only exchange it with the initially proposed 2 years ban. :D

[gravity]

Given that McLaren issued a letter in late December acknowledging that the team used the stolen Ferrari data, they would have a snowball's chance in hell to contest FIA's decision, maybe only exchange it with the initially proposed 2 years ban. :D

I think that was prob an option. Take the 2 year ban.
We all know how much F1 would lose on that, and so does the FIA/Bernie. They will we begged back into F1. High stakes poker bluffing.

[MrJan]

Given that McLaren issued a letter in late December acknowledging that the team used the stolen Ferrari data, they would have a snowball's chance in hell to contest FIA's decision, maybe only exchange it with the initially proposed 2 years ban. :D

Bet they were gutted to get caught and have to own up. We all know (don't we?) that the whole field is spying on each other but it's generally under the carpet, like doping in athletics.

[ioan]

We all know (don't we?) that the whole field is spying on each other but it's generally under the carpet, like doping in athletics.

You mean you all McLaren fans (or Lewy fanboys) ?! :laugh:

[markabilly]

I wonder if this decision was actually invalid or void or whatever (and I am not so sure about any of this, as I am merely relying on what has been alleged), then what about such other decisions by the same body? For example the fuel temps issues and so forth.

And why did it take so long for anyone to point this out?

[MrJan]

You mean you all McLaren fans (or Lewy fanboys) ?! :laugh:

Not a Mclaren fan. Dennis is a numpty who whinges about everything. I'm talking about the realists who realise that in a sport that is worth as much as F1 that there will be espionage involved. It took a Ferrari person to help out with the information and I'm guessing it wasn't out of the kindness of his heart ;)

Is your head nice and cool in that sand? ;) :laugh:

[ioan]

Not a Mclaren fan. Dennis is a numpty who whinges about everything. I'm talking about the realists who realise that in a sport that is worth as much as F1 that there will be espionage involved. It took a Ferrari person to help out with the information and I'm guessing it wasn't out of the kindness of his heart ;)

Is your head nice and cool in that sand? ;) :laugh:

Espionage was always there in f1 and other motorsports, that's right.
But it was under the form of taking pictures of the competitors cars, and the result was that McLaren (yes exactly them) were the first ones to come up with those nasty shields they were installing in front of their garages so that the cars can't be seen when at full stop. So teams had hired professional photographs and than starting from those photos and a well known size they extrapolated the size of the parts they were interested in.

What happened last year, and also a few years ago (with Toyota) was that the team had in their possession original Ferrari technical documentation, with the precise description of every part of the car.

There is a clear difference between what you are calling espionage and hat McLaren did last year.

[ioan]

And why did it take so long for anyone to point this out?

Maybe they needed lots of time to make up this history? ;)

[ArrowsFA1]

Espionage was always there in f1 and other motorsports, that's right.
But it was under the form of taking pictures of the competitors cars, and the result was that McLaren (yes exactly them) were the first obes to come up with those nasty shields...
Waaaaaaaaayyy, waaaaaaaaay before then ioan.

[ioan]

Waaaaaaaaayyy, waaaaaaaaay before then ioan.

maybe before then the rules weren't the same either?! :p :