War !! [Archive] - Motorsport Forums

Eki

2nd July 2008, 20:27

War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Uh-huh
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again, y'all

War, huh, good God
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me

Ohhh, war, I despise
Because it means destruction
Of innocent lives

War means tears
To thousands of mothers eyes
When their sons go to fight
And lose their lives

I said, war, huh
Good God, y'all
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again

War, whoa, Lord
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me

War, it ain't nothing
But a heartbreaker
War, friend only to the undertaker
Ooooh, war
It's an enemy to all mankind
The point of war blows my mind
War has caused unrest
Within the younger generation
Induction then destruction
Who wants to die
Aaaaah, war-huh
Good God y'all
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it, say it, say it
War, huh
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me

War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Uh-huh
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again y'all
War, huh, good God
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me

War, it ain't nothing but a heartbreaker
War, it's got one friend
That's the undertaker
Ooooh, war, has shattered
Many a young mans dreams
Made him disabled, bitter and mean
Life is much to short and precious
To spend fighting wars these days
War can't give life
It can only take it away

Ooooh, war, huh
Good God y'all
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again

War, whoa, Lord
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me

War, it ain't nothing but a heartbreaker
War, friend only to the undertaker
Peace, love and understanding
Tell me, is there no place for them today
They say we must fight to keep our freedom
But Lord knows there's got to be a better way

Ooooooh, war, huh
Good God y'all
What is it good for
You tell me
Say it, say it, say it, say it

War, huh
Good God y'all
What is it good for
Stand up and shout it
Nothing

anthonyvop

2nd July 2008, 22:32

War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Uh-huh
War, ............................
...................................
...................................
Say it, say it, say it, say it

War, huh
Good God y'all
What is it good for
Stand up and shout it
Nothing
War never solved anything except.....
Tyranny
Slavery
Fascism
Communism
Nazism
&
Genocide.

rah

2nd July 2008, 22:33

are we the no 1 importer of china sh!t??

If so what would happen if we just stopped importing?;
Does anyone know the % of goods and services imported for Germany? and the UK?

Maybe China could call its debts in and repossess the USA.

rah

2nd July 2008, 22:36

War never solved anything except.....
Tyranny
Slavery
Fascism
Communism
Nazism
&
Genocide.

Lol are you sure? Last time I checked we have had plenty of wars but all of those things still exist. Maybe you could say that war is a product of greed and leave it at that.

anthonyvop

3rd July 2008, 01:20

Lol are you sure? Last time I checked we have had plenty of wars but all of those things still exist. Maybe you could say that war is a product of greed and leave it at that.
Rah,

You are smarter than that. Right War didn't stop the Nazi's and their Genocide? War didn't stop the North Koreans and China from making South Korean their version of a worker's paradise.
War, or the threat of it has freed more people, given countries more independence and ended oppression than all the world's negotiations combined.

leopard

3rd July 2008, 08:05

This is a serious concern over opinion that war should be legalized for something they are lacking of and have to seize up others wealth.

China probably didn't have sufficient source of oil, to fulfill domestic needs they have to import it from somewhere else like Arab. Therefore they have importance to maintain countries giving them shortest access to the said source, like Myanmar stabilized.

I think sooner or later China will rein strategical economic of the world, they are just too clever to be ignored. A lot of countries in their economic term have dependency on China. Behind them, some countries known as tigers of Asia are now re-waking-up from their sleep and would be another power which the whole world should pay more attention at.

:)

gadjo_dilo

3rd July 2008, 09:50

Rah,
War, or the threat of it has freed more people, given countries more independence and ended oppression than all the world's negotiations combined.

So war is today's key for a better world......... :laugh:

Ironically people needed freedom and independence for their countries due to other previous wars that made them lose those things.

BTW, communism wasn't " solved " by war. On the contrary, was consolidated and introduced by force in many countries as a result of wars.

Daniel

3rd July 2008, 11:14

Mark

3rd July 2008, 11:20

The only siginificant thing to come out of the Iraq conflict has been high oil prices :s

Daniel

3rd July 2008, 11:23

The only siginificant thing to come out of the Iraq conflict has been high oil prices :s
Yeah but those Eye-raqi's shure have more liberty and freedumb :D

BDunnell

3rd July 2008, 13:39

So war is today's key for a better world......... :laugh:

Ironically people needed freedom and independence for their countries due to other previous wars that made them lose those things.

BTW, communism wasn't " solved " by war. On the contrary, was consolidated and introduced by force in many countries as a result of wars.

Quite right, but we can't expect everybody to be completely non-selective when it comes to the examples they choose to mention!

Much of the US involvement in 'proxy wars' against Communism during the Cold War was disastrous, with little or no long-term outlook leading to major problems in the future. Meanwhile, thank goodness more moderate voices prevailed at the times of real tension (Berlin Wall, Cuban Missile Crisis, etc), otherwise the results could have been disastrous.

schmenke

3rd July 2008, 15:00

The only siginificant thing to come out of the Iraq conflict has been high oil prices :s

Not to mention considerable personal wealth to many U.S. politicians... :s

Tomi

3rd July 2008, 15:10

Not to mention considerable personal wealth to many U.S. politicians... :s

And several tousend iraqi civilians has got killed too.

anthonyvop

3rd July 2008, 15:31

Much of the US involvement in 'proxy wars' against Communism during the Cold War was disastrous, with little or no long-term outlook leading to major problems in the future.
Really?

I'll be sure to let the people of South Korea, Thailand, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Nicaragua and Bolivia know.

SOD

3rd July 2008, 16:39

The sign up sheet is on the right.

maybe your stocks will save you from the rising price of oil.

anthonyvop

3rd July 2008, 19:15

The sign up sheet is on the right.

maybe your stocks will save you from the rising price of oil.
HUH?

Brown, Jon Brow

3rd July 2008, 19:17

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3BO6GP9NMY

AAReagles

3rd July 2008, 19:34

War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Uh-huh
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again, y'all

:laugh: I was thinking of Barry Mcguire's 'Eve of destruction' myself.

Eki

3rd July 2008, 20:39

I'll be sure to let the people of South Korea, Thailand, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Nicaragua and Bolivia know.
How many of those started a war? Finland had wars in the 1900s. A civil war in 1918, two wars against the Soviet Union in 1939 to 1944 and a war against Germany in 1944 to 1945. In hindsight, I think we would have been better off without any of them.

The last one who started a war against the US was Japan in 1941, I think. Yet the US has started many wars after that.

anthonyvop

3rd July 2008, 21:20

How many of those started a war? Finland had wars in the 1900s. A civil war in 1918, two wars against the Soviet Union in 1939 to 1944 and a war against Germany in 1944 to 1945. In hindsight, I think we would have been better off without any of them.

The last one who started a war against the US was Japan in 1941, I think. Yet the US has started many wars after that.
The US has only started one war. That was our war of Independence.

We are good at finishing them tough.

Eki,
Just because your people are not good at judging who to pick a fight with doesn't mean I have a shoulder for you to cry on.

Brown, Jon Brow

3rd July 2008, 21:58

The US has only started one war. That was our war of Independence.

We are good at finishing them tough.

really? :confused:

rah

3rd July 2008, 22:45

Rah,

You are smarter than that. Right War didn't stop the Nazi's and their Genocide? War didn't stop the North Koreans and China from making South Korean their version of a worker's paradise.
War, or the threat of it has freed more people, given countries more independence and ended oppression than all the world's negotiations combined.

Lol Sometimes I doubt it.
War did stop the nazi's and their genocide, but that is not why the allied forces were fighting Germany. I think it was probably that whole thing about taking over Europe and northern Africa that did it.

Didn't do much for the North Koreans. Didn't stop the North Vietnamese either.

The threat of war does not end oppression. It is just another type of oppression.

Is war stopping genocide or oppression in Africa today? Hasn't worked too well in Afghanistan or Iraq either.

Don't get me wrong, war is sometimes necessary, but don't glorify the deaths of so many people and say it frees the world.

rah

3rd July 2008, 23:05

The US has only started one war. That was our war of Independence.

We are good at finishing them tough.

Eki,
Just because your people are not good at judging who to pick a fight with doesn't mean I have a shoulder for you to cry on.

I don't really think that Finland was picking fights with Germany or Russia. And they did pretty well from memory.

Lol:
1950-1953 Korean War: you have'nt even finished this one.
1954-1975 Vietnam War: How did that one go again? Did not go well for Cambodia either.
1961 Bay of Pigs Invasion: Not so well
1983 Invasion of Grenada: you finished that one but it was still not a good idea.
1989-1990 Invasion of Panama: Did suprisingly well with this one, but obviously did not learn very much from the aftermath.
1990-1991 Gulf War: Not bad, but what effect did it have on the current situation.
2001-Present United States war in Afghanistan: not going well at all.
2003-present Iraq War: Same.

anthonyvop

4th July 2008, 01:50

I don't really think that Finland was picking fights with Germany or Russia. And they did pretty well from memory.

Lol:
1950-1953 Korean War: you have'nt even finished this one.
1954-1975 Vietnam War: How did that one go again? Did not go well for Cambodia either.
1961 Bay of Pigs Invasion: Not so well
1983 Invasion of Grenada: you finished that one but it was still not a good idea.
1989-1990 Invasion of Panama: Did suprisingly well with this one, but obviously did not learn very much from the aftermath.
1990-1991 Gulf War: Not bad, but what effect did it have on the current situation.
2001-Present United States war in Afghanistan: not going well at all.
2003-present Iraq War: Same.

And which one of those wars did the US start?
I'll answer for you........NONE.

BTW The US pulled out at the last moment at the Pay of Pigs. One of the great Kennedy legacys

rah

4th July 2008, 02:24

And which one of those wars did the US start?
I'll answer for you........NONE.

BTW The US pulled out at the last moment at the Pay of Pigs. One of the great Kennedy legacys

Ummm... the post was a response to you saying the US was good at finishing wars.

Would you not say that the current Iraq war was started by the USA?
I agree the Kennedy legacies, there are many and plenty of them are bad.

maxu05

4th July 2008, 03:57

There are 3 wars worth waging IMO

1) The war against hunger
2) The war against poverty
3) The war against crime

Eki

4th July 2008, 05:12

The US has only started one war. That was our war of Independence.

That's logically impossible. Before the war of Independence there was no US who could start a war. The US was born only after the war of Independence.

Don't you even admit that the US Civil War was started by Americans?

Camelopard

4th July 2008, 05:20

That's logically impossible. Before the war of Independence there was no US who could start a war. The US was born only after the war of Independence.

Don't you even admit that the US Civil War was started by Americans?

Stop it Eki, you are just going to confuse the poor fellow even more. :)

leopard

4th July 2008, 06:46

He is right, GNR is americans. :)

555-04Q2

4th July 2008, 11:39

Not to mention considerable personal wealth to many U.S. politicians... :s

.....and contractors :(

BDunnell

4th July 2008, 13:03

That's logically impossible. Before the war of Independence there was no US who could start a war. The US was born only after the war of Independence.

:laugh:

Like it.

BDunnell

4th July 2008, 13:06

Really?

I'll be sure to let the people of South Korea, Thailand, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Nicaragua and Bolivia know.

Personally, I wouldn't count the Korean War as having been a proxy war. It was fairly overt on both sides. And let's ask the people of Angola, ravished by a war that was prolonged by foreign intervention, and Vietnam how they feel while you're at it.

Mark

4th July 2008, 13:21

And which one of those wars did the US start?
I'll answer for you........NONE.

How about all of them?

Roamy

4th July 2008, 16:38

Hey Rah
Do you think you will need our help with Iran or can you go it alone.

Daniel

4th July 2008, 16:40

Hey Rah
Do you think you will need our help with Iran or can you go it alone.
Perhaps Iran doesn't need invading.........

Roamy

4th July 2008, 16:54

You are so correct Daniel. $30 a barrel and no nukes will preserve their existence. But considering Saddam turned down 20 Billion to move to Syria do you really expect logic to prevail??

Daniel

4th July 2008, 16:56

You are so correct Daniel. $30 a barrel and no nukes will preserve their existence. But considering Saddam turned down 20 Billion to move to Syria do you really expect logic to prevail??
Perhaps you should have stopped when you said Daniel. That way your post wouldn't have been full of crap.

Firstgear

4th July 2008, 17:52

Here's Bob Marley's....War

Until the philosophy which hold one race superior
And another
Inferior
Is finally
And permanently
Discredited
And abandoned -
Everywhere is war -
Me say war.

That until there no longer
First class and second class citizens of any nation
Until the colour of a man's skin
Is of no more significance than the colour of his eyes -
Me say war.

That until the basic human rights
Are equally guaranteed to all,
Without regard to race -
Dis a war.

That until that day
The dream of lasting peace,
World citizenship
Rule of international morality
Will remain in but a fleeting illusion to be pursued,
But never attained -
Now everywhere is war - war.

And until the ignoble and unhappy regimes
that hold our brothers in Angola,
In Mozambique,
South Africa
Sub-human bondage
Have been toppled,
Utterly destroyed -
Well, everywhere is war -
Me say war.

War in the east,
War in the west,
War up north,
War down south -
War - war -
Rumours of war.
And until that day,
The African continent
Will not know peace,
We Africans will fight - we find it necessary -
And we know we shall win
As we are confident
In the victory

Of good over evil -
Good over evil, yeah!
Good over evil -
Good over evil, yeah!
Good over evil -
Good over evil, yeah! [fadeout]

Zico

4th July 2008, 19:03

The US has only started one war. That was our war of Independence.

We are good at finishing them tough.

The scary thing is.. you actually believe that dont you?

Do you mind telling us who started all the wars (and how) that the USA have been involved in since WW2?

SOD

4th July 2008, 19:31

Blame the US federal reserve for $145 barrel oil.

if the federal reserves increases the money supply by 15% per year, dont expect things priced in dollars to stay flat :dork:

The US federal reserve has $78bn worth of foreign currencies to play around with, its a lot, but if you consider that China has $1.5 trillion to play with , I know whose horse I'm backing :)
have fun in iran :dork: , i know you wont sign up.

BDunnell

4th July 2008, 23:52

Do you mind telling us who started all the wars (and how) that the USA have been involved in since WW2?

Yes, I too would be interested in this assessment. Word of advice, though, anthonyvop — here, you won't be able to get away with saying that the French started all of them.

Hondo

5th July 2008, 01:10

Sorry, fresh out of war. Would you care to make another selection or perhaps place a war on backorder?

rah

5th July 2008, 02:11

Hey Rah
Do you think you will need our help with Iran or can you go it alone.

Just had a quick look through my diary, and I do not have "Invade Iran" listed anywhere this year. Maybe I might have it in next years diary so I can get back to you then.

Placid

5th July 2008, 03:56

There are 3 wars worth waging IMO

1) The war against hunger
2) The war against poverty
3) The war against crime

A 4th - The war against terror.

Camelopard

5th July 2008, 04:26

A 4th - The war against terror.

Hey, you forgot another war,

"The war against drugs...."

Have we won that one yet?

anthonyvop

5th July 2008, 21:38

The scary thing is.. you actually believe that dont you?

Do you mind telling us who started all the wars (and how) that the USA have been involved in since WW2?

Ok
War: Instigated By;
Korean War: North Korea Acting as USSR Proxy
Vietnam War: North Vietnam Acting as USSR Proxy
Dominican Republic: Communist Rebels acting as Cuban/USSR Proxies
Grenada: People's Revolutionary Army Acting as Cuban Proxy
Panama: Panama
Persian Gulf War: Iraq
Iraq War: Iraq

Zico

5th July 2008, 21:51

Ok
War: Instigated By;
Korean War: North Korea Acting as USSR Proxy
Vietnam War: North Vietnam Acting as USSR Proxy
Dominican Republic: Communist Rebels acting as Cuban/USSR Proxies
Grenada: People's Revolutionary Army Acting as Cuban Proxy
Panama: Panama
Persian Gulf War: Iraq
Iraq War: Iraq

Yeah, Ok but you omitted the all important
(and how) from my question..

anthonyvop

6th July 2008, 03:13

Yeah, Ok but you omitted the all important from my question..How?

Ok Easy.
War: Instigated By;
Korean War: North Korea invaded the South. South is our ally.

Vietnam War: North Vietnam invaded the South. South is our ally.

Dominican Republic: Goverment in Power requested help from the Organisation of American States(OAS). U.S. Lead the Peace-keeping Mission.

Grenada: Part of a Peace Keeping force of the Organization of Eastern Caribbean States.

Panama: Panama declared War on the U.S.

Persian Gulf War: Iraq invaded our ally.

Iraq War: Iraq Failed to comply with UN resolutions.

Ok Wanna try again?

Zico

6th July 2008, 19:28

Iraq War: Iraq Failed to comply with UN resolutions.

Ok Wanna try again?

Yep, The Iraq war was blatantly and obviously engineered by false inteligence reports (WMD?) and propaganda, lies... for strategic reasons, for oil and a bigger presence in the middle east.

Surely you can see that?

Eki

6th July 2008, 19:59

Iraq War: Iraq Failed to comply with UN resolutions.

So did the US. The UN said the resolution 1441 wasn't enough to invade Iraq. The US ignored it and invaded anyway. Does that now give the rest of the world right to invade the US? The decision to invade Iraq was up to the UN, not up to the US. The US broke international laws and the UN charter.

BDunnell

6th July 2008, 23:06

And I don't think we've had the points about the War of Independence and the Civil War answered, have we? ;)

Yesman

6th July 2008, 23:29

As my friend Danny says, make Tea not War.

anthonyvop

7th July 2008, 03:06

And I don't think we've had the points about the War of Independence and the Civil War answered, have we? ;)
What points?

The Revolutionary war was obvious.

Civil war was just that. A Civil War...A war between the states. F.Y.I. It was the South that started the war by bombarding Fort Sumpter.

SOD

7th July 2008, 09:33

reasons why Iraq was attacked, they accepted EUROS for oil. Iran is doing the same thing now.

janvanvurpa

7th July 2008, 14:10

The US has only started one war. That was our war of Independence.

We are good at finishing them tough.

As usual for chickenhawks sitting comfortably in their airconditioned bastions of unreality, your use of the inclusive "we" seems to indicate "belonging" to those people of another time who, as all students of history, and any fair person would concede, when they finally fought in serious numbers, fought enemies already depleted by years of fighting, and who had already prior to American involvement, had already lost millions of men, and we're clearly already doomed.

So your expected braying, while typical of your sort of American, it's really shameful for a couch-potato to claim credit for "we' finishing the last bit when "we" let our Russians and Chinese allies die by the millions and do 80-85% of the hard work.

Shameful.

But that's not a word a certain type of Chicken-hawk would be familiar with.

You bring disrepute to the memory of those that did fight on "our" side.

anthonyvop

7th July 2008, 15:00

As usual for chickenhawks sitting comfortably in their airconditioned bastions of unreality, your use of the inclusive "we" seems to indicate "belonging" to those people of another time who, as all students of history, and any fair person would concede, when they finally fought in serious numbers, fought enemies already depleted by years of fighting, and who had already prior to American involvement, had already lost millions of men, and we're clearly already doomed.

So your expected braying, while typical of your sort of American, it's really shameful for a couch-potato to claim credit for "we' finishing the last bit when "we" let our Russians and Chinese allies die by the millions and do 80-85% of the hard work.

Shameful.

But that's not a word a certain type of Chicken-hawk would be familiar with.

You bring disrepute to the memory of those that did fight on "our" side.
Hey Mr. Revisionist, I hate America.

I served my country. Have you?

As for letting Russians and Chinese die by the Millions, I assume you are alluding to WW2. Just beause the US was more efficient and had better battle strategy don't blame us. If the Communist leaders want to send their people in wave attacks to be mowed down direct your complaints to the local Socialist Workers Party office.

steve_spackman

7th July 2008, 15:25

When there is no room left on stone
To write the wrong
Or spell the sin
Who will name the dead?

May 1, 2008, marked the fifth anniversary of the "Mission Accomplished" spectacle by George Bush. Twelve days or so later, Staff Sgt. Travis Twiggs, a three-tour Iraq veteran, committed suicide and killed his brother, Willard J. Twiggs.
A Marine for fifteen years, Travis suffered from PTSD, even wrote about it; tried to still the beast by reaching out to help others, but in the end it killed him. Collateral damage included his brother and a stunned and grieving family.
While Bush, McCain and the GOP shout hosannas to war and scream about supporting the troops - back home and in need of help, veterans like Staff Sgt. Travis Twiggs find this as their support. You really don't have PTSD, Sarge, just the readjustment blues. It will pass.
In the absurdity of false wars, this article says it all. War memorials are running out of room to list the dead. Mission Accomplished.
Memorial Day is here, and with it the cheap carnival sales pitch of patriotism and sacrifice and paying the price for freedom. The sideshow of this holiday weekend will be the primary campaign pre- election blather and speeches about honouring the men and women who serve our nation. Nickel-and-dime phrase and praise, sleight of hand and tongue, to divert our eyes from the real issue of supporting the troops and veterans.
Senator Jim Webb has a bill before Congress to increase the GI Bill education benefits of the veterans, but McCain and the GOP will not support it. Why aren't Obama and Clinton raising this issue during their primary race? Why are the media more focused on who is or is not wearing a patriotic lapel pin? Useless questions, I know, because for the media the election is nothing more than entertainment: American Idol goes to Washington. And questions about supporting the troops and veterans are about money, and true patriots understand there is always money for war - emergency funding and billions to keep the lie going. War is expensive. Care for the veteran and his family? That smacks of entitlement programs like welfare - and that's too costly and too wasteful of taxpayer dollars. Welcome to Wonderland.
Close your eyes and picture that long obsidian wall of the Vietnam Memorial glistening with the tears of heaven on a rainy day, the etched names so vivid you can see their senior prom photos. As people move along you see the reflections of the families and veterans passing each panel to pay their respects, occasionally reaching out to touch a name as fingers rub and linger over each letter that spells out that life - trapped within the wall.
Now picture the last panel, a soggy rain-soaked piece of cardboard with black ink streaked like weeping mascara that reads:
"There is no room on the Wall for more names. "Thank you for supporting the troops. - Come again."
As memorials are running out of room for the names of the dead, maybe the blogs can dedicate a corner for Memorial Day with a roll call of those who have paid the ultimate price, and then just below that, a petition to end the war and deception. Maybe radio stations will play, "Christmas In Fallujah" and "We Gotta Get Out of This Place" at the top of every hour, followed by John Lennon's "Imagine." And because this administration loves corporate sponsorship so much, perhaps they should reach out to Chevron, Shell, ExxonMobil, Halliburton and all the oil conglomerates that are reaping record billions in profit and get them to build care houses at VA facilities for the wounded and their families, such as the MacDonald House for families of cancer victims. Isn't this war just another form of cancer? Make the corporations earn their obscene profits and tax breaks by giving back to the nation - to the veterans and soldiers and families. And better yet, make them put the picture of every wounded and killed soldier on a wall in each and every petrol station across the country.
And maybe this president, who bought his way out of war and service to his country, should dedicate an entire wing of his proposed library to the names and images of those who have paid for his legacy of war.
I know - never going to happen. And that is the piteous sin in all of this.
What happens when the gardens of stone can no longer name the dead? Will the wind catch their souls and whisper their names to the midnight sky? Or will silence be the lullaby of the forgotten?

janvanvurpa

8th July 2008, 09:35

Hey Mr. Revisionist, I hate America.

I served my country. Have you?

As for letting Russians and Chinese die by the Millions, I assume you are alluding to WW2. Just beause the US was more efficient and had better battle strategy don't blame us. If the Communist leaders want to send their people in wave attacks to be mowed down direct your complaints to the local Socialist Workers Party office.

Vop, you have shown in nearly everything you write that you have a very simplistic, nearly childlike level of reading, and somewhat that level in reasoning.
The POINT was your sloppy use of the word "WE".

YOU had nothing to do with the Allied victory in WWII, so it is more than disingenuous for you to use the word we.
The correct word would have been "They", but you clearly intended to bask in the honor of those which came before you.

Further, nobody asked, or is interested in what you did in this thread, except to wonder why, if you learned nothing and are so vocal about the successful use of organised violence as a method of problem solving, why you are not currently in an infantry unit mowing down the enemies of Freedom?
Have you gone soft?
Too busy?
have other plans? (wasn't that Cheney's excuse for never serving)

And your obnoxious, sneering taunt asking if I have served isn't the subject here either.

And in any case, what you meant was "did you serve in the US Military?" and you know that answer.

I have served the interests of my country by working to dispell the widespread impression worldwide that Americans are ignorant, uncultured, noisy, chest thumping hyper nationalists, and ever threatening thugs.
In short, that not all are just as you appear to us here.
I'm doing that right now and just got back from Sichuan Province where I spent 3 days meeting with a couple of factories which have been making nice 160mm center to center H profile connecting rods for Volvo B23 motors.
There was lots of chuckles at what a wonderful (in the sense of wonder) world we live in that a small 1 man specialty shop owner from America can travel to Sichuan to talk about Chinese made conrods made with Australian 4140 steel for Swedish cars and sell them with American pistons to engine builders in England, Netherlands, Norway, Canada and USA.
The Chinese are aware that the intermingling and interdependence of economies and peoples in the way of the future.

Every single one looked confused and then shocked when i told them of people like YOU who casually regurgitate crap that "We're going to have to fight the Chinese one day".

I told them that not all Americans were so delusional.

anthonyvop

8th July 2008, 14:14

I have served the interests of my country by working to dispell the widespread impression worldwide that Americans are ignorant, uncultured, noisy, chest thumping hyper nationalists, and ever threatening thugs.
.
In other words.....NO You haven't served your country.
Being a namby-pamby, whinning, wussy of a hippy wannabee is not serving your country or anyone else for that matter except our enemies.

Roamy

8th July 2008, 16:54

Hey Janvan,
Why are you over there supporting "child labor" Government induced terror over their own citizens supporting something that you should be doing in your own country " making connecting rods "

Also I am very glad that you did not serve as no US soldier would want you covering their back! A good place for you in this country would be as a assistant to Jimmy Carter.

Daniel

8th July 2008, 16:56

In other words.....NO You haven't served your country.
Being a namby-pamby, whinning, wussy of a hippy wannabee is not serving your country or anyone else for that matter except our enemies.
So you can't do something for peace and stability without killing people and kickin' ass :laugh:

I've done more for peace and stability in the last 25 years than you will ever do in your lifetime.

schmenke

8th July 2008, 17:01

...our enemies.

Just curious, who are your enemies?

Eki

8th July 2008, 17:06

Just curious, who are your enemies?
Whoever he wants them to be.

Daniel

8th July 2008, 17:09

Just curious, who are your enemies?
With talk like that you'll soon be on the list ;)

schmenke

8th July 2008, 17:21

Just curious, who are your enemies?

Sorry vop, perhaps I should rephrase the question... What countries do you consider to be enemies of the U.S.? In other words, which countries do you feel pose a threat to the security of the U.S. that necessitates significant military vigilance?

anthonyvop

8th July 2008, 17:25

So you can't do something for peace and stability without killing people and kickin' ass :laugh:

I've done more for peace and stability in the last 25 years than you will ever do in your lifetime.
Really?
I am curious. How did you do that?

anthonyvop

8th July 2008, 17:29

Sorry vop, perhaps I should rephrase the question... What countries do you consider to be enemies of the U.S.? In other words, which countries do you feel pose a threat to the security of the U.S. that necessitates significant military vigilance?
The list is long and varied. These countries also pose a threat to other free Democracies.
I am not saying that these countries are on the verge of attacking. What I am saying that a strong and vigilent Military is need to deter naked aggression.

Short List in no particular order.

Russia
Iran
North Korea
Syria
Venezuela
Cuba
China

Roamy

9th July 2008, 01:36

The list is long and varied. These countries also pose a threat to other free Democracies.
I am not saying that these countries are on the verge of attacking. What I am saying that a strong and vigilent Military is need to deter naked aggression.

Short List in no particular order.

Russia
Iran
North Korea
Syria
Venezuela
Cuba
China

may as well add all the muslim and arab nations plus most of Africa what ever the hell they are!! We are probably good for a while as long as russia and china don't gang up on us but the russians are trying to develop allies with muslim nations by selling them arms which will actually put the russian stuff very close to the euro's who will just sign over the title when the big attack come. By that time they will be half muslim anyway. I doubt I will be around for the big one but the posturing is happening now. Just as today we pissed them off again signing a missile pact with the Czchs.

Camelopard

9th July 2008, 04:16

Hawkmoon

9th July 2008, 04:16

I too have a nagging feeling that a major war is coming. There seems to be a lot of aggrovation between many different countries over many different issues at the moment. Individually these issues aren't serious but added together they become something much more serious.

This is not new, ofcourse, but I worry more today about my children's future than I have at any other time since they were born.

As for the United States involvement in wars, I think history shows that the US doesn't actually start, as in invade or attack a country, very often. They certainly didn't start WWII, Korea, Vietnam or the Gulf War. Whether or not they finished them is an argument I'll leave for others.

They most certainly started the Iraq War but they were provoked by Saddam Hussein's sabre rattling and the events of 9/11. I'm not condoning the invasion of Iraq by the way, just pointing out that I don't think the US just decided to pick a fight with someone one morning and Iraq's name was pulled out of the hat.

There have been several other "minor" conflicts, and I use that term in relation to "major" conflicts like WWII etc, that the US has been involved in since WWII. But then again, many countries have engaged in wars both minor and major in the same period. It's that ol' "human condition" thing I suppose.

gadjo_dilo

9th July 2008, 07:07

In other words.....NO You haven't served your country.
Being a namby-pamby, whinning, wussy of a hippy wannabee is not serving your country or anyone else for that matter except our enemies.

Now I'm confused:
1.is it any constitutional obligation to " serve " the country?
2. are the ones who " served " considered more honorable and conscious than the rest of the population? In other words, are they a sort of a special chaste?
3. even in your personal life you may have enemies. Is it legal and moral to practice corporal punishments against them?

Daniel

9th July 2008, 07:28

Really?
I am curious. How did you do that?
You're an intelligent guy. You figure it out.

Eki

9th July 2008, 10:32

As for the United States involvement in wars, I think history shows that the US doesn't actually start, as in invade or attack a country, very often. They certainly didn't start WWII, Korea, Vietnam or the Gulf War.
Not directly, but they got involved with those wars even when the wars weren't aimed against them. Furthermore, they supported repressive governments in Korea and Vietnam that made part of the people in those countries revolt. And they supported Saddam in his invasion to Iran. So, it's no wonder if Saddam thought it was OK to invade Kuwait if it was OK to invade Iran. Double standards?

In WWII the US armed and fed the Soviets in their war against Finland, but they didn't have the backbone to show their face and declare a war against Finland like Britain did. Still I think the US harmed Finland more than Britain did.

anthonyvop

9th July 2008, 12:59

Now I'm confused:
1.is it any constitutional obligation to " serve " the country? Nope. Just a moral one.

2. are the ones who " served " considered more honorable and conscious than the rest of the population? In other words, are they a sort of a special chaste? OF course they are.

3. even in your personal life you may have enemies. Is it legal and moral to practice corporal punishments against them?If an enemy attacks me, yes I do.

anthonyvop

9th July 2008, 13:05

Not directly, but they got involved with those wars even when the wars weren't aimed against them. Furthermore, they supported repressive governments in Korea and Vietnam that made part of the people in those countries revolt. And they supported Saddam in his invasion to Iran. So, it's no wonder if Saddam thought it was OK to invade Kuwait if it was OK to invade Iran. Double standards?

In WWII the US armed and fed the Soviets in their war against Finland, but they didn't have the backbone to show their face and declare a war against Finland like Britain did. Still I think the US harmed Finland more than Britain did.
Who writes the History books in your country?
Do they have History books in your country?

Who revolted in South Korea?
You do realize that Finland was on the side of the Nazis right?

Rani

9th July 2008, 13:10

In WWII the US armed and fed the Soviets in their war against Finland, but they didn't have the backbone to show their face and declare a war against Finland like Britain did. Still I think the US harmed Finland more than Britain did.
Do you think that declaring war against Finland would have changed the outcome?
If it wouldn't have changed the outcome then what difference does it make?

gadjo_dilo

9th July 2008, 14:09

Nope. Just a moral one..
Moral obligations shouldn't be paid.

OF course they are...
No offence but if I look at the guys in US army they look more like people who can't get a better alternative in life. They're far away from what I call an elite.

If an enemy attacks me, yes I do.
But you're a military guy...You should like order and discipline. Is it legal to make justice with fists?

schmenke

9th July 2008, 14:16

...they were provoked by Saddam Hussein's sabre rattling and the events of 9/11. ...

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

schmenke

9th July 2008, 14:19

...In WWII the US armed and fed the Soviets in their war against Finland, but they didn't have the backbone to show their face and declare a war against Finland like Britain did. ....

If I'm not mistaken neither the U.S. or the U.K. formally issued a declaration of war against Iraq.

Tomi

9th July 2008, 14:21

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Lol yes, wonder how big % of the us people still belive Iraq had something to do with the NY attack.

Tomi

9th July 2008, 14:24

No offence but if I look at the guys in US army they look more like people who can't get a better alternative in life. They're far away from what I call an elite.

This goes for all armys that have paid soldiers, not only usa.

anthonyvop

9th July 2008, 14:31

Moral obligations shouldn't be paid.
It is up to the individual.

No offence but if I look at the guys in US army they look more like people who can't get a better alternative in life. They're far away from what I call an elite. Offensive and not worth the comment

But you're a military guy...You should like order and discipline. Is it legal to make justice with fists?
Of course it is! Do you believe that people do not have a right to defend themselves? Justice can only be accomplished with the use or threat of force.
Do the criminals where you live just turn themselves in after they commit a crime?
If convicted are they just let out in a field with no guards or walls and asked to please stay in the area?
If somebody was to attack you would you not defend yourself?

A.F.F.

9th July 2008, 14:33

You do realize that Finland was on the side of the Nazis right?

Yeah baby, we're Nazi *******s :up:

anthonyvop

9th July 2008, 15:57

Yeah baby, we're Nazi *******s :up:
I said WAS!!!

SOD

9th July 2008, 16:20

LMAO, this thread is hilarious, the spoils of war didnt filter down to the rubes, now they're here bitching about it. as Nelson Muntz says HaHa.

shame that US servicemen are doing multiple tours in iraq and putting their asses on the line, while the moaners and wannabe upper-crusters bemoan the denials of the spoils of war.

Have you paid for the socialistic bear sterns bailout yet?

Breeze

9th July 2008, 17:06

....................shame that US servicemen are doing multiple tours in iraq and putting their asses on the line, while the moaners and wannabe upper-crusters bemoan the denials of the spoils of war.
Maybe the first time I've ever agreed with you. What's even worse is that our soldiers are giving their lives for the gang of unscrupulous, unethical, corrupt murdering thieves in Bagdad. This was a golden opportunity for Iraqis to take a chance at living free, and they're blowing it while blowing each other up.

Have you paid for the socialistic bear sterns bailout yet?
And here I'd have thought you'd be in favor of such a political philosophy. Or is it just another opportunity for you to poke at the US? Any side of an issue so long as its not the one Americans are on? And just so everyone knows where I stand on that or other similar bailouts, I think its absolute BS and I'm sick and tired of our so-called free market leaning government forgetting their proper role in the economy, which SHOULD BE protector of US citizens against fraud and force and to remedy injury, period.

Daniel

9th July 2008, 18:11

Yeah baby, we're Nazi *******s :up:

It's the forum sexy sexy Nazi jackboot wearing Finn A.F.F! :D

Eki

9th July 2008, 18:20

Do you think that declaring war against Finland would have changed the outcome?
If it wouldn't have changed the outcome then what difference does it make?
No, it would not have changed the outcome, but it would have made the Americans look a little less double-faced hypocrites.

A.F.F.

9th July 2008, 18:21

It's the forum sexy sexy Nazi jackboot wearing Finn A.F.F! :D

Yep. Another Hitler Junge.

I'm actually waiting for another war. This whole Iraq has gone way boring. Nothing brightens my day like a good old invasion. The ideal thing would be if those midlle eastern areas war against each others and we could just watch cnn and eat popcorn :up:

Eki

9th July 2008, 18:23

Who revolted in South Korea?

There was just one Korea before it was split into South and North Korea. Nobody revolted in South or in North Korea, but they did in Korea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War#Post-World_War_II_division_of_Korea

Some elements of the population responded with violent insurrections in the North and protests in the South.[21] The USAMGIK tried to contain civil violence by banning strikes on December 8 and outlawing the revolutionary government and the people's committees on December 12. Things spiraled quickly out of control, however, with a massive strike on September 23, 1946 by 8,000 railway workers in Busan which quickly spread to other cities in the South. The Daegu uprising occurred on October 1, in which police attempts to control rioters caused the death of three student demonstrators and injuries to many others, sparking a mass counter-attack killing 38 policemen. Over in Yeongcheon, a police station came under attack by a 10,000-strong crowd on October 3, killing over 40 policemen and the county chief. Other attacks killed about 20 landlords and pro-Japanese officials. The US administration responded by declaring martial law, firing into crowds of demonstrators and killing an unknown number of people.[29]

Eki

9th July 2008, 18:29

You do realize that Finland was on the side of the Nazis right?
Yes, but Finland thought it was a lesser evil than the Soviet Union who had taken 10% of Finnish land and 25,000 Finnish lives the previous year.

anthonyvop

9th July 2008, 18:33

There was just one Korea before it was split into South and North Korea. Nobody revolted in South or in North Korea, but they did in Korea.
How does North Korea's (as Soviet and Chinese proxies) Invasion of South Korea become a Revolt?
You realize that South Korea is the Good Guys? Free and open Democracy.
While North Korea is...ahhh forget it.

anthonyvop

9th July 2008, 18:37

No, it would not have changed the outcome, but it would have made the Americans look a little less double-faced hypocrites.
Wait.
Your country allies itself with one of the most evil Governments in History. A country that practiced Genocide against an entire religion as well as Slavs, Gypsy and Homosexuals.
Finland allied itself with Adolf Hitler and Nazi Germany and the United States were the bad guys?

Eki,
Go away!

Zico

9th July 2008, 19:15

What's even worse is that our soldiers are giving their lives for the gang of unscrupulous, unethical, corrupt murdering thieves in Bagdad.

If the words 'the Whitehouse' was exchanged for 'Bagdad' in the above sentence I'd totally agree with you.

This was a golden opportunity for Iraqis to take a chance at living free, and they're blowing it while blowing each other up.

This seems to be a very common opinion in the US, one which I totally disagree with. Please note, Im not in anyway excusing Saddams atrocities... Saddam ruled with an Iron fist because it was the only way. The general psyche of the iraqi people and democracy do not mingle well, the current unrest and cival war with no end in sight... I believe, is proof of that.
Hindsight is a wonderfull thing but civillian casualties from the war and Saddams genocide figures do not compare favourably with the invaders... ahem.. liberators decision to invade.

This isnt intended as a pop at you or the general US population, your Government lied to you, just like ours lied to us... former PM Blair is equally as guilty by involvment.

I might be alone on here with my opinion but thats just the way I see the whole issue..

Rani

9th July 2008, 19:42

The ideal thing would be if those midlle eastern areas war against each others and we could just watch cnn and eat popcorn :up:
Isn't that what you do now ?
Today with TV being everywhere I bet you enjoyed the Terrorist attack in Jerusalem I just posted a video of a few days back. Just like watching an action flick :rolleyes:

This seems to be a very common opinion in the US, one which I totally disagree with. Please note, Im not in anyway excusing Saddams atrocities... Saddam ruled with an Iron fist because it was the only way. The general psyche of the iraqi people and democracy do not mingle well, the current unrest and cival war with no end in sight... I believe, is proof of that.

I actually agree with this. The case in the Gaza strip is pretty similar. The US (which pushed for elections which saw Hamas gain control over Gaza - http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-31768956_ITM) trying to impose democracy on a population that seemingly isn't ready or able to apply it to good use.

Eki

9th July 2008, 20:05

Originally Posted by anthonyvop View Post
Wait.
Your country allies itself with one of the most evil Governments in History. A country that practiced Genocide against an entire religion as well as Slavs, Gypsy and Homosexuals.
Finland allied itself with Adolf Hitler and Nazi Germany and the United States were the bad guys?

Eki,
Go away!
The genocide/Holocaust hadn't really started in June 1941 when Finland allied with Germany. It started in 1942. Finnish leaders weren't clairvoyants.

Wannsee Conference and the Final Solution (1942–1945)

By the end of 1941, Himmler and Heydrich were becoming increasingly impatient with the progress of the Final Solution. Their main opponent was Göring, who had succeeded in exempting Jewish industrial workers from the orders to deport all Jews to the General Government and who had allied himself with the Army commanders who were opposing the extermination of the Jews out of mixture of economic calculation, distaste for the SS and (in some cases) humanitarian sentiment. Although Göring's power had declined since the defeat of his Luftwaffe in the Battle of Britain, he still had privileged access to Hitler and had great obstructive power.

Heydrich therefore convened a conference—the Wannsee Conference—on January 20, 1942 at a villa, Am Großen Wannsee No. 56-58, in the suburbs of Berlin to finalize a plan for the extermination of the Jews.[152] The plan became known (after Reinhard Heydrich) as Aktion Reinhard (Operation Reinhard). Present were Heydrich, Eichmann, Heinrich Müller (head of the Gestapo), and representatives of the Ministry for the Occupied Eastern Territories, the Ministry for the Interior, the Four Year Plan Office, the Ministry of Justice, the General Government in Poland (where over two million Jews still lived), the Foreign Office, the Race and Resettlement Office, and the Nazi Party, and the office responsible for distributing Jewish property.[151] Also present was SS-Sturmbannführer Rudolf Lange, the SD commander in Riga, who had recently carried out the liquidation of the Riga ghetto.[152] He seems to have been there to advise the officials on the practicalities of killing people on an industrial scale.

Michael Berenbaum writes that the 15 men seated at the table were considered the best and the brightest; more than half of them held doctorates from German universities. Butlers served brandy as they talked.[151]

The men were presented with a plan for killing all the Jews in Europe, including 330,000 Jews in England and 4,000 in Ireland,[152] although the minutes taken by Eichmann refer to this only through euphemisms, such as " … emigration has now been replaced by evacuation to the East. This operation should be regarded only as a provisional option, though in view of the coming final solution of the Jewish question it is already supplying practical experience of vital importance."[152]

The officials were told there were 2.3 million Jews in the General Government, 850,000 in Hungary, 1.1 million in the other occupied countries, and up to 5 million in the Soviet Union (although only 3 million of these were in areas under German occupation) —a total of about 6.5 million. These would all be transported by train to extermination camps (Vernichtungslager) in Poland, where those unfit for work would be gassed at once. In some camps, such as Auschwitz, those fit for work would be kept alive for a while, but eventually all would be killed. Göring's representative, Dr. Erich Neumann, gained a limited exemption for some classes of industrial workers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism_in_Finland#World_War_Two

During the Continuation War (1941-1944), in which Finland fought alongside Nazi Germany, Finnish Jews were not persecuted, and even among extremists of the Finnish Right they were tolerated, as many leaders of the movement came from the clergy. Many Finnish Jews fought in the War alongside the German Army[3]. The field synagogue operated by the Finnish army was probably a unique phenomenon in Europe. Approximately five hundred Jewish refugees arrived in Finland, though about three hundred and fifty moved on to other countries. About forty of the remaining Jewish refugees were sent for work service in Salla in Lapland in March 1942. The work and conditions were difficult, they were made to work until their fingers bled and did not have clothing sufficient for the very cold weather. They were exposed to German troops. The refugees were moved to Kemijärvi in June and eventually to Suursaari island in the Gulf of Finland. It was believed that here they would not be able to have easy contact with influential Finnish Jews. In November 1942, eight foreign Jewish refugees were handed over to Nazi Germany[4], a fact for which Finnish prime minister Paavo Lipponen issued an official apology in 2000.[5]

Approximately 2600-2800 prisoners of war were exchanged for 2100 Finnish prisoners of war with Germany. About 2000 of them joined the Wehrmacht, but among the rest there were about 500 political officers or politically dangerous persons, who most likely perished in concentration camps. Based on the a list of names, there were about 70 Jews among the extradited, though they were not extradited based on religion.

In November 1942, eight foreign Jewish refugees were handed over to Nazi Germany[4], a fact for which Finnish prime minister Paavo Lipponen issued an official apology in 2000.[5]
When was the last time the US has apologized something? Never? I think it's about time.

Eki

9th July 2008, 21:27

When was the last time the US has apologized something? Never? I think it's about time.
Even the Soviet Union has apologized:

http://virtual.finland.fi/netcomm/news/showarticle.asp?intNWSAID=26480

During his visit to Finland in the early 1990s, Boris Yeltsin apologized on behalf of his predecessors for past meddling in Finland’s domestic affairs during the Soviet era.

A.F.F.

9th July 2008, 23:26

Isn't that what you do now ?
Today with TV being everywhere I bet you enjoyed the Terrorist attack in Jerusalem I just posted a video of a few days back. Just like watching an action flick :rolleyes:

Not exactly. It lacks the hero.

Hawkmoon

9th July 2008, 23:36

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Lol yes, wonder how big % of the us people still belive Iraq had something to do with the NY attack.

Please don't misunderstand me. I wasn't trying to suggest that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11. I referred to the events of 9/11 becuase I believe they put the US in a frame of mind bordering on a seige mentality. The US felt that they were threatend and lashed out. Saddam Hussein made himself an easy target by refusing to cooperate with the UN weapons inspectors and by continually talking up Iraq's ability to attack Israel. If Hussein had pulled his head in and let the weapons inspectors do their job then he may very well still be in power.

That's what I meant by "sabre rattling and 9/11". It's also one of the few, if not only, examples of overt, large-scale military aggression by the US since WWII, which is the point I was responding to.

anthonyvop

9th July 2008, 23:47

There was just one Korea before it was split into South and North Korea. Nobody revolted in South or in North Korea, but they did in Korea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War#Post-World_War_II_division_of_Korea
Wikipedia?
Are you serious?

anthonyvop

9th July 2008, 23:53

The genocide/Holocaust hadn't really started in June 1941 when Finland allied with Germany. It started in 1942. Finnish leaders weren't clairvoyants.
.
I guess they don't have History books in Finland after all
Here. Educate yourself.

http://frank.mtsu.edu/~baustin/knacht.html

In case it is too deep for you here is the dumbed down Wikipedia version.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht

Eki

10th July 2008, 05:21

I guess they don't have History books in Finland after all
Here. Educate yourself.

http://frank.mtsu.edu/~baustin/knacht.html

In case it is too deep for you here is the dumbed down Wikipedia version.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht

Kristallnacht didn't equal the Holocaust, it equaled a violent riot by right wing youth. Like I said, the Finnish leaders weren't clairvoyant. The US didn't join the war against Germany until 1942. If they already knew the Holocaust was coming , why didn't they join earlier, for example in 1938 after the Kristallnacht? Heck, even the Nazis didn't come up with their "final solution" until late 1941 and it took time before others found out.

Rani

10th July 2008, 07:25

Kristallnacht didn't equal the Holocaust, it equaled a violent riot by right wing youth. Like I said, the Finnish leaders weren't clairvoyant. The US didn't join the war against Germany until 1942. If they already knew the Holocaust was coming , why didn't they join earlier, for example in 1938 after the Kristallnacht? Heck, even the Nazis didn't come up with their "final solution" until late 1941 and it took time before others found out.
Calling that a violent riot by right wing youth is like calling the olympics a gathering of athletes.

gadjo_dilo

10th July 2008, 07:58

Of course it is! Do you believe that people do not have a right to defend themselves? Justice can only be accomplished with the use or threat of force.
Do the criminals where you live just turn themselves in after they commit a crime?
If convicted are they just let out in a field with no guards or walls and asked to please stay in the area?
If somebody was to attack you would you not defend yourself?

This may lead to chaos and we'll end spending all our time in useless fights.
But I find your saying really interesting, maybe it's the key to understand why christianity became a universal religion: it exchanged the juddaic principle " eye for eye, tooth for tooth " with turning the other cheek.

Saddam ruled with an Iron fist because it was the only way. The general psyche of the iraqi people and democracy do not mingle well, the current unrest and cival war with no end in sight... I believe, is proof of that.
Hindsight is a wonderfull thing but civillian casualties from the war and Saddams genocide figures do not compare favourably with the invaders... ahem.. liberators decision to invade.

Hm...It's a fact that Americans don't bother too much with the psychological factor. Can't forget Belgrade's bombing on Easter day....
Saddam was judged and killed, now why bother to export democracy in a place where people aren't happy with it?

SOD

10th July 2008, 09:02

Maybe the first time I've ever agreed with you. What's even worse is that our soldiers are giving their lives for the gang of unscrupulous, unethical, corrupt murdering thieves in Bagdad. This was a golden opportunity for Iraqis to take a chance at living free, and they're blowing it while blowing each other up.

And here I'd have thought you'd be in favor of such a political philosophy. Or is it just another opportunity for you to poke at the US? Any side of an issue so long as its not the one Americans are on? And just so everyone knows where I stand on that or other similar bailouts, I think its absolute BS and I'm sick and tired of our so-called free market leaning government forgetting their proper role in the economy, which SHOULD BE protector of US citizens against fraud and force and to remedy injury, period.

sounds like you got more than you bargained for. That cakewalk never materialised did it? should have thought of that in 2002!

your govt, IS a so-called free market.......and your govt has a assumed a role where US soldiers go off to get killed for Washington DC lobbyists interests :dork:

Daniel

10th July 2008, 09:05

sounds like you got more than you bargained for. That cakewalk never materialised did it? should have thought of that in 2002!

your govt, IS a so-called free market.......and your govt has a assumed a role where US soldiers go off to get killed for Washington DC lobbyists interests :dork:
Thing is you can talk all the BS you want SOD :) But Saddam being taken down was the ideal opportunity for Iraq to make a better Iraq out of itself without Saddam at the helm. It sure didn't happen in the best way but there was definitely the opportunity for things to turn out well and the millitant groups have ruined that opportunity.

A.F.F.

10th July 2008, 09:17

After fear of Saddam they have nothing more to fear than fear itself. The whole country is like a broken ant nest. Chaotic.

Daniel

10th July 2008, 09:28

After fear of Saddam they have nothing more to fear than fear itself. The whole country is like a broken ant nest. Chaotic.
Thing is if you step on an ants nest they get pissed and run around like crazy but 5 minutes later they're back to normal. I'm not defending the actions of the US at all. I'm simply saying that Iraq could have taken positives out of this situation and taken control of their own destiny. Germany and Japan are prime examples of countries who have been bombed to hell and back but who have returned bigger and better because they've worked had at recovering.

We have a saying in Australia "Don't $h1t on your own doorstep". Perhaps you didn't have some everyday Iraqi's supporting the insurgency and if Iran didn't support the insurgency then the foreign forces would already have been out and the country would be exploiting it's oil wealth and the people would be getting filthy rich rather than getting killed by bombs placed by their own people.

You can blame the US for their idiotic decision to invade all you want but at the end of the day the only thing that is going to bring peace to Iraq is when Iraqi's stop $h1tting on their own people and their own country. It's one thing to have the US forces in Iraq but it's another for an Iraqi to go killing other Iraqi's.

A.F.F.

10th July 2008, 10:15

Exactly. How do you fix a broken ant nest? Simple. You leave it alone. :)

leopard

10th July 2008, 10:20

Ants have unique characteristic to help one another, a self-help community. They are panic run around for solution whether they remain to stay at the old nest or looking for the new ones, and they get back normal at no longer than 5 minutes. No sooner had you destroyed their nest when partly of them began bitting ar** :o ;)

Tomi

10th July 2008, 10:21

Exactly. How do you fix a broken ant nest? Simple. You leave it alone. :)

Exactly, what the point to make conflicts everywhere, offcourse if you sell weapons it's good, this missile shield against russia usa is building in central europe is an other good example.

gadjo_dilo

10th July 2008, 11:00

. Germany and Japan are prime examples of countries who have been bombed to hell and back but who have returned bigger and better because they've worked had at recovering..
1.They couldn't have worked so hard if they weren't germans or japanese. The model can't be applied on a latin country for ex.
2. Germany was also a beneficiary of Marshall Plan. Hard work wasn't enough without financial help.
3. Some asians like japanese , chinese or koreans have another vision on work than the rest of the world.

. You can blame the US for their idiotic decision to invade all you want but at the end of the day the only thing that is going to bring peace to Iraq is when Iraqi's stop $h1tting on their own people and their own country. It's one thing to have the US forces in Iraq but it's another for an Iraqi to go killing other Iraqi's.
So what's today's role of US army ( + its symbolic allies ) in Iraq? Peace doves? Universal gendarms?

Rani

10th July 2008, 11:24

Exactly. How do you fix a broken ant nest? Simple. You leave it alone. :)
Trying to simplify things by comparing people's behavior to ants is a mistake.
The solution to chaos isn't 'leaving it alone', it's applying correct stabilising power. Take a look at Somalia, Zaire, Lebanon and even the Gaza strip. When chaos insues, people don't make things right, they get AK47's and start looting for their own greed or survival purposes. The hard part is applying power. That is the problem in Iraq and in Gaza as well.

Camelopard

10th July 2008, 12:21

.... and even the Gaza strip. When chaos insues, people don't make things right, they get AK47's and start looting for their own greed or survival purposes. The hard part is applying power. That is the problem in Iraq and in Gaza as well.

So Rani, if a whole lot of of people who were not born in your area suddenly arrived and started thowing you and your friends out of your houses that you had occupied for centuries that you would you sit back and let it happen? I know for a fact that I certainly wouldn't......................

Have you bothered to read Jimmy Carters' book yet? In case you have forgotten it's call "Palestine, Peace Not Apartheid", here is the Amazon link so you can order a copy:

http://www.amazon.com/Palestine-Peace-Apartheid-Jimmy-Carter/dp/0743285034/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215687634&sr=1-2

I doubt very much it is available where you live however Amazon will ship to your part of the world. Perhaps you are afraid it may change your view that you aren't all as pure as freshly driven white snow that you like to think you are?

Here is another book for you: In Search Of Fatima by Ghada Karmi.

http://www.amazon.com/Search-Fatima-Palestinian-Story/dp/1859846947

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0MKY/is_20_27/ai_n6063499

Her family was forcibly removed at gunpoint from their home in Jerusalem in 1948 for the simple fact that they were Palestinian, so that a settler family could take their house, again, I'm bl**dy sure that I would not take that lying down and would do whatever to cause maximum problems for thes invaders and terrorists that took my country and my house.

I'm sure that books like these written from the view point of the Palestinians in 1948 are not readily available to you, even less so used in history lessons at school so that is why I give you the Amazon link so that you can broaden your mind, isn't the internet a wonderfull thing?

Treat people like sh*t and that is what you will get in return........

It is interesting to note that the front end loader driver in your earlier report had no known affiliations with any terrorist organisation, in fact a quote:

" '....but Israeli police Chief Dudi Cohen described the attacker as a "terrorist" who appeared to be acting alone. "It looks as if it was a spontaneous act,"

Family friends identified the attacker as Hussam Dwikat, 29, and described him as a devout Muslim with no known ties to militant groups.' "

What would make him do something like this? Perhaps the realisation that his life had no meaning without a country to call his own......

Some more reading for you:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/jun2003/irae-j21.shtml and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

oh so they were warned to evacuate, that makes it alright then, (heavy hint of sarcasm......):

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article690085.ece

Treat people like sh*t and that is what you will get in return........

Camelopard

10th July 2008, 12:40

Hey vop, you still here? I thought you were off to fight the heathens in Sadr City, let us know when you get there and please send a postcard so we know you arrived safely.......

Camelopard

10th July 2008, 12:42

Hey vop, you still here? I thought you were off to fight the heathens in Sadr City, let us know when you get there and please send a postcard so we know you arrived safely.......

anthonyvop

10th July 2008, 12:44

Kristallnacht didn't equal the Holocaust,
Read a History book if you can find one please.
It is considered the start of the Holocaust. It was the start of the systematic oppression of a religious group. Don't forget the Nazis treatment of Slavs, Gypsies and Homosexuals.

it equaled a violent riot by right wing youth. Like I said, the Finnish leaders weren't clairvoyant.
Doesn't the Library have a History book?
1st Nazis were Left-Wing. National Socialist.....! 2nd Kristallnacht was planed and orchestrated by the Nazi Party.

The US didn't join the war against Germany until 1942.
Are there really no History books at all in Finland? History Channel?
The US entered the war in Europe in 1941. When Germany Declared War on the US.

Heck, even the Nazis didn't come up with their "final solution" until late 1941 and it took time before others found out.
Eki,
Please travel to another country where they have History Books.

anthonyvop

10th July 2008, 12:46

Hey vop, you still here? I thought you were off to fight the heathens in Sadr City, let us know when you get there and please send a postcard so we know you arrived safely.......
As i have already stated. I have served my country. Have you? Or are you just another left-wing, blowhard revelling under the freedoms provided in part my service?

Camelopard

10th July 2008, 12:54

As i have already stated. I have served my country. Have you? Or are you just another left-wing, blowhard revelling under the freedoms provided in part my service?

Yep, I've served my country and I did a damn good job too. What about you? As I put to you in another thread, where did you serve, you didn't bother to respond so I presumed that it was just a figment of your over active imagination caused by playing too many computer shoot 'em up games.
I'm guessing the only uniform you have ever worn is the one they give you at maccas when dispensing their burgers. :) :) :)

rah

10th July 2008, 13:33

schmenke

10th July 2008, 14:56

...the only thing that is going to bring peace to Iraq is when Iraqi's stop $h1tting on their own people and their own country. It's one thing to have the US forces in Iraq but it's another for an Iraqi to go killing other Iraqi's.

Well, it's too late to bring Saddam back :mark:

Roamy

10th July 2008, 14:58

Daniel

10th July 2008, 14:59

Daniel

10th July 2008, 15:00

Exactly. How do you fix a broken ant nest? Simple. You leave it alone. :)

I agree. But the nest has been disturbed. It's too late to talk about what should have been done/not done.

Any person can talk about how to not have had the problem in the first place but that doesn't solve the problems we're seeing.

Tomi

10th July 2008, 15:12

Any person can talk about how to not have had the problem in the first place but that doesn't solve the problems we're seeing.

Many did but the so called "missing link of evolution" did not understand.

schmenke

10th July 2008, 15:23

well certainly the 400,000 that Saddam tortured and killed plus the raping of all the women was certainly a better way of life for the Iraqi's When you really look at the history "Saddam" was the WMD.

I'm not condoning Saddam's genocidal actions in any way, but is the average Iraqi really better off today? I remember reading a recent publication (no, I don't remember where, but go ahead and google...) that estimated that an Iraqi civilian is 5 times more likely to be killed on the streets today than when Saddam was ruling. A country that is deeply divided, either religiously or secularly, needs strict rule. Trying to instill democracy is a waste of time.

Rani

10th July 2008, 15:32

So Rani, if a whole lot of of people who were not born in your area suddenly arrived and started thowing you and your friends out of your houses that you had occupied for centuries that you would you sit back and let it happen? I know for a fact that I certainly wouldn't......................

That actually happened to my grandparets' families (both sides) in Poland. After surviving 'riots made by right wing youth' and the Holocaust, they borded ships and planes and returned to the jewish mother land. Say what you will you can't change the fact Israelites lived here as far as history goes. I don't know how many caucasians lived in Australia or the US 3000 years ago. Returning to my grandparents they busted their ass working two, sometimes three jobs at once to insure their children and grand children get themselves educated. Guess what, their whole generation did that too and they made this land into what it is.

Have you bothered to read Jimmy Carters' book yet? In case you have forgotten it's call "Palestine, Peace Not Apartheid", here is the Amazon link so you can order a copy:

http://www.amazon.com/Palestine-Peace-Apartheid-Jimmy-Carter/dp/0743285034/ref=pd_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215687634&sr=1-2

I doubt very much it is available where you live however Amazon will ship to your part of the world. Perhaps you are afraid it may change your view that you aren't all as pure as freshly driven white snow that you like to think you are?

Why are you using this patronising approach? It's a strategy one would use out of weakness (that is not completely knowing what you talk about because your only contact to the subject is a computer located a million miles away). Another option is that this is just the kind of person you are.

I Don't know if anyone knows this, but Mr. Carter and his center are funded and have been funded for ages by foundations that call jews "the enemy of all nations", call the Holocaust "a fable" and say Israel is responsible for killing President Kennedy and the attack on the WTC.
Let me quote: "he who pays the piper calls the tune".
Carter is financed by Saudi oil money -money that has saved his family when their peanuts buisness went pear shaped as early as the 70's. Why would he write a book that goes against the people who line his pockets?

Don't believe me, read this: http://frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=14F14A6C-2BBE-439E-929A-425288DA09E4

It is interesting to note that the front end loader driver in your earlier report had no known affiliations with any terrorist organisation, in fact a quote:

" '....but Israeli police Chief Dudi Cohen described the attacker as a "terrorist" (I guess you think running over commuters on their way to work isn't an act of terrorism but just ordinary construction conduct) who appeared to be acting alone. "It looks as if it was a spontaneous act,"

Family friends identified the attacker as Hussam Dwikat, 29, and described him as a devout Muslim with no known ties to militant groups.' "

What would make him do something like this? Perhaps the realisation that his life had no meaning without a country to call his own.....

Ask any number of Palestinians to describe their identity and they would tell you they are Muslim (devout ones too) first, Arab second and Palestinian third. As such they can call a whole host of countries their own. Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar and a host of other muslim states ranging from Pakistan to Afghanistan and Indonesia.

I describe myself as a Jew, Zionist Israeli. I have no other home. History has shown me I won't be safe anywhere else. If you know of any other Jewish states I'd be glad to know. That way my children would not have a Dad with impaired hearing due to fighting in the Yom-Kippur war, would not have friends who lost brothers, parents and uncles and could live in a country where life isn't an everyday struggle living in the midst of enemy states.

12345

schmenke

10th July 2008, 16:46

Why does home have to be a Jewish state, or Muslim or Christian for that matter? I would think that there are many countries where Jews, Muslims, etc. can settle and call it home. Judaism, like any other faith, need not be limited by physical boundaries.

Eki

10th July 2008, 17:08

The US entered the war in Europe in 1941. When Germany Declared War on the US.
It was December 11th 1941. Much closer to 1942 than 1938. What was your excuse for waiting that long?

Eki

10th July 2008, 17:12

1st Nazis were Left-Wing. National Socialist.....!
I agree with that if you agree that North Korea is democratic just because they call themselves Peoples' Democratic Republic of North Korea and that DDR was democratic because it was called German Democratic Republic.

Eki

10th July 2008, 17:18

Eki,
Please travel to another country where they have History Books.
Will you join me?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_solution

Mass killings of about one million Jews occurred before the plans of the Final Solution were fully implemented in 1942, but it was only with the decision to eradicate the entire Jewish population that the extermination camps were built and industrialized mass slaughter of Jews began in earnest. This decision to systematically kill the Jews of Europe was made by the time of, or at the Wannsee conference, which took place in Berlin, in the Wannsee Villa on January 20, 1942. During the conference, there was a discussion held by a group of German Nazi officials to decide on the "Final Solution of the Jewish Question". The records and minutes of this meeting were found intact by the Allies at the end of the war and served as valuable evidence during the Nuremberg Trials.

By spring of 1942, Operation Reinhard began the systematic extermination of the Jews, although hundreds of thousands already had been killed by death squads and in mass pogroms. In Heinrich Himmler's speech at the Posen Conference of October 6, 1943, Himmler, for the first time, clearly elucidated to all assembled leaders of the Reich, in frank and brutal terms, what the "Final Solution" referred to.

Roamy

10th July 2008, 19:06

I Trying to instill democracy is a waste of time.

Well we certainly agree on this point - outside of a edsel this is about the dumbest thing to be selling to religious fanatics.

I think the some of the world is now backed into a corner.
1. if rogue nations get nukes they will use them
2. stopping them now will create another outcry from those who just want to sit there and hope it never comes their way.
3. the euros are giving up citizenship for protection so they will probably avoid the rogue strike but as the future will have all the charm of europe will die from within

I won't be around but can you just imagine the big clock Mohammed Ben!!

Zico

10th July 2008, 19:16

I won't be around but can you just imagine the big clock Mohammed Ben!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

In Londonistan?

Daniel

10th July 2008, 19:17

In Londonistan?
Good afternoon Zico Bin Mohammed!

Eki

10th July 2008, 19:36

.
3. the euros are giving up citizenship for protection so they will probably avoid the rogue strike but as the future will have all the charm of europe will die from within

Well, Africa isn't the same as it was before Europeans got there, America isn't the same as it was before Europeans got there, Asia isn't the same as it was before Europeans got there and Australia isn't the same as it was before Europeans got there. Heck, even Antarctica isn't the same as it was before Europeans got there. The world changes and tables turn.

A.F.F.

10th July 2008, 21:22

Trying to simplify things by comparing people's behavior to ants is a mistake.
The solution to chaos isn't 'leaving it alone', it's applying correct stabilising power. Take a look at Somalia, Zaire, Lebanon and even the Gaza strip. When chaos insues, people don't make things right, they get AK47's and start looting for their own greed or survival purposes. The hard part is applying power. That is the problem in Iraq and in Gaza as well.

It happened in New Orleans as well.

anthonyvop

10th July 2008, 21:26

Will you join me?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_solution
You realize that you just posted information that refutes what you were saying right?

Eki

10th July 2008, 21:54

You realize that you just posted information that refutes what you were saying right?
How's that?

Eki

10th July 2008, 21:57

You realize that you just posted information that refutes what you were saying right?
How's that?

It specifically said that the Nazi leaders didn't tell even their own about the Final Solution until October 1943. There was no way the Finnish leaders could have known about it in June 1941.

In Heinrich Himmler's speech at the Posen Conference of October 6, 1943, Himmler, for the first time, clearly elucidated to all assembled leaders of the Reich, in frank and brutal terms, what the "Final Solution" referred to.

Eki

10th July 2008, 22:05

Calling that a violent riot by right wing youth is like calling the olympics a gathering of athletes.If you call the Kristallnacht the olympics, what would you call the Final Solution and the Holocaust in athletic terms then? I think you've run out of scale.

Roamy

11th July 2008, 02:44

:laugh: :laugh:

In Londonistan?

:up: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Roamy

11th July 2008, 02:49

Well, Africa isn't the same as it was before Europeans got there, America isn't the same as it was before Europeans got there, Asia isn't the same as it was before Europeans got there and Australia isn't the same as it was before Europeans got there. Heck, even Antarctica isn't the same as it was before Europeans got there. The world changes and tables turn.

Africa used to have some very nice places! Now it is a giant cesspool!!

Dr. Krogshöj

11th July 2008, 06:56

555-04Q2

11th July 2008, 11:59

Africa used to have some very nice places! Now it is a giant cesspool!!

Dont kid yourself. The whole world is a cesspool.

Roamy

11th July 2008, 15:34

Dont kid yourself. The whole world is a cesspool.

Isn't chile and Argentina quite nice?? and Perth AU

Rani

11th July 2008, 17:39

The ONLY positive that this war can bring is the further rise of oil prices. Maybe Americans will have to pay 8 dollars for a gallon like I am doing in Europe right now. I know it would be more expensive for me too, but still. They would really have something to whine about.
Yeah that and the fact nuclear weapons won't be in the hands of someone who wants Israel "wiped off the map" and calls the Holocaust "a myth". I'd call that positive too.

Daniel

11th July 2008, 18:43

Yeah that and the fact nuclear weapons won't be in the hands of someone who wants Israel "wiped off the map" and calls the Holocaust "a myth". I'd call that positive too.
Takes one to know one.........

Rani

11th July 2008, 21:18

Takes one to know one.........
That's saying a lot while saying nothing, unless you can elaborate on how I am similar to Mahmoud Ahmedinajad... :o hplease:

BTW I am not related to Conrad Rautenbach... :wave:

Daniel

11th July 2008, 21:53

That's saying a lot while saying nothing, unless you can elaborate on how I am similar to Mahmoud Ahmedinajad... :o hplease:

BTW I am not related to Conrad Rautenbach... :wave:
I wasn't referring to you :) I was referring to Israel :)

We all know Israel would be happy not to have their neighbours around. They're just not dumb enough to say it in public.

As for the Rautenbach thing :up:

Roamy

11th July 2008, 23:56

today russia and china vetoed a call for sanctions against mugabe. this is the guy that had the oposition's wife's feet chopped off and thrown into a fire.

This is why is will never work and we are headed to hell in a lead sled. The US need to withdraw from all these phony world group. Lets just dispense with all the bullsh!t !!!!! trade, and blow up whoever we can without eliminating the whole world. Although that will come if the rogues are allowed nukes.
The world should be disarming the Pakis. The money we spend on these sh!t countries is incredible. I would cancel foreign aid and apply it to oil drilling. Pleeeese get the UN out of here. You Euros should take it for a while - like the next 500 years or so.

Rani

12th July 2008, 12:04

I wasn't referring to you :) I was referring to Israel :)

We all know Israel would be happy not to have their neighbours around. They're just not dumb enough to say it in public.

As for the Rautenbach thing :up:
Do you think Israel has an intention of 'wiping' its neigbours 'off the map'?

We don't.

Eki

12th July 2008, 13:10

Do you think Israel has an intention of 'wiping' its neigbours 'off the map'?

We don't.
Occupying their land is wiping them off the map piece by piece. Ahmadinejad probably meant that the name Israel should be wiped off the map and called something else, like Palestine. I'm quite sure that many Israelis would also like to wipe off the name Palestine and call it Israel.

SOD

12th July 2008, 13:24

And just so everyone knows where I stand on that or other similar bailouts, I think its absolute BS and I'm sick and tired of our so-called free market leaning government forgetting their proper role in the economy, which SHOULD BE protector of US citizens against fraud and force and to remedy injury, period.

time to march your backside down to the capital to start protesting

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/fannie-freddie-shares-down-again/story.aspx?guid={FBD22BF7-DC93-405D-A1AE-4C3DF8A5712F}

Rani

12th July 2008, 14:58

Occupying their land is wiping them off the map piece by piece. Ahmadinejad probably meant that the name Israel should be wiped off the map and called something else, like Palestine. I'm quite sure that many Israelis would also like to wipe off the name Palestine and call it Israel.
He probably also means that his nuclear technology is for civilian uses only.
Rrrrrrright.

Daniel

12th July 2008, 17:44

Do you think Israel has an intention of 'wiping' its neigbours 'off the map'?

We don't.
If you could you would ;) I think Ahmedinajad talks big but has absolutely no intention of getting into a fight with Israel.

Roamy

12th July 2008, 19:09

Do you think Israel has an intention of 'wiping' its neigbours 'off the map'?

We don't.

That is a shame!!

Roamy

12th July 2008, 19:12

If you could you would ;) I think Ahmedinajad talks big but has absolutely no intention of getting into a fight with Israel.

Just keep prodding the tiger Roy

DonJippo

12th July 2008, 19:39

He probably also means that his nuclear technology is for civilian uses only.
Rrrrrrright.

Like yours?

Rani

12th July 2008, 19:55

If you could you would ;) I think Ahmedinajad talks big but has absolutely no intention of getting into a fight with Israel.
If we could we wouldn't, we don't seek lebensraum.

Good thing you think Ahmedinejad has no intention of attacking, I'll tell all my army friends they can slip into their bathing suits and go to their bases' swimming pools to chill out with all the girl soldiers. :beer:

When Hitler wrote 'Mein Kampf', nobody thought he was serious. I bet he was mocked. I mean who could even envision the things he writes about in 1925.

In 1933 when waves of anti jewish laws were legislated people still weren't convinced what his intentions are.

After Kristallnacht people still believed he isn't that bad. In fact, he had massive support in Germany.

The rest of the story is known (I hope) and doesn't need to be repeated (I'm also tired of writing a whole lesson in history).

History tends to repeat itself, and this is a prime example. Whenever someone with the power to cause serious damage voices intentions like this, it should be taken seriously.

Ahmedinejad has voiced his intentions of creating a 'Global Islamic Empire' before (I urge everyone to read this - http://briefoniran.com/content/view/69/29/).
This is not only an Israeli problem. Iran's arab neighbours are as nervous about a nuclear Iran as we are.

You can say his empire plan is a load of BS but under the world's nose his taking control has already begun. Iran (through the Hizbuallah terrorist organization) has a third of lebanese parliment under its control. Syria is much the same and Iran also funds the Hamas terrorist organiztion which took over the Gaza strip. the situation in Iraq is also known to all (or not) with thousands of operatives and billions of dollars allocated to reap havoc in Iraq.

I see great similarity between Hitler and Ahmedinejad. In fact I think the iranian leader is a modern incarnation of Hitler. I take everything he talks about seriously as I believe he means each and every word.

Tomi

12th July 2008, 20:02

If we could we wouldn't, we don't seek lebensraum.

Good thing you think Ahmedinejad has no intention of attacking, I'll tell all my army friends they can slip into their bathing suits and go to their bases' swimming pools to chill out with all the girl soldiers. :beer:

When Hitler wrote 'Mein Kampf', nobody thought he was serious. I bet he was mocked. I mean who could even envision the things he writes about in 1925.

In 1933 when waves of anti jewish laws were legislated people still weren't convinced what his intentions are.

After Kristallnacht people still believed he isn't that bad. In fact, he had massive support in Germany.

The rest of the story is known (I hope) and doesn't need to be repeated (I'm also tired of writing a whole lesson in history).

History tends to repeat itself, and this is a prime example. Whenever someone with the power to cause serious damage voices intentions like this, it should be taken seriously.

Ahmedinejad has voiced his intentions of creating a 'Global Islamic Empire' before (I urge everyone to read this - http://briefoniran.com/content/view/69/29/).
This is not only an Israeli problem. Iran's arab neighbours are as nervous about a nuclear Iran as we are.

You can say his empire plan is a load of BS but under the world's nose his taking control has already begun. Iran (through the Hizbuallah terrorist organization) has a third of lebanese parliment under its control. Syria is much the same and Iran also funds the Hamas terrorist organiztion which took over the Gaza strip. the situation in Iraq is also known to all (or not) with thousands of operatives and billions of dollars allocated to reap havoc in Iraq.

I see great similarity between Hitler and Ahmedinejad. In fact I think the iranian leader is a modern incarnation of Hitler. I take everything he talks about seriously as I believe he means each and every word.

If you dont seek lebensraum, why are you building all the time on the occupied territories?
I see simularities with Bush occupation of Iraq and Hitlers occupation of Poland too.

Roamy

12th July 2008, 20:09

SOD

12th July 2008, 20:14

Yesterday
OPEC warns against Iran conflict
The head of the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries warned yesterday that oil prices would experience an "unlimited" increase in the event of a military conflict involving Iran because the group's members would be unable to make up the lost production.

I say screw these guys - the world should set the price of oil - probably 30 to 50 per barrel. These guys sell contracts to speculators and are just shoving it up our asses! Well sorry you have all the oil but no neutrons. Sorry it didn't work out! Bang. Tonight on news 5 see Muhat mu Orbit

sorry dickmunch, you stop whining because the spoils of war didn't come your way :laugh: and why do you think that will change by going after Iran?

did fannie Mae put an end to someone buying your house?

after 8 years of GDub, you're getting what you voted for. dont blame anyone else.

Tomi

12th July 2008, 20:14

Yesterday
OPEC warns against Iran conflict
The head of the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries warned yesterday that oil prices would experience an "unlimited" increase in the event of a military conflict involving Iran because the group's members would be unable to make up the lost production.

I say screw these guys - the world should set the price of oil - probably 30 to 50 per barrel. These guys sell contracts to speculators and are just shoving it up our asses! Well sorry you have all the oil but no neutrons. Sorry it didn't work out! Bang. Tonight on news 5 see Muhat mu Orbit

Also it was in the news that a part of the oil price is because of the Iran missile crises, in whos interest is it to make so much fuss of Irans missiles that the oil price goes up?

TOgoFASTER

12th July 2008, 20:51

The John Wayne wannabes here are a laugh riot.
Needs more ditto.

Tomi

12th July 2008, 20:57

The John Wayne wannabes here are a laugh riot.
Needs more ditto.

The John Wayne wannabes, lol, do you mean small guys in high heels named Marion.

TOgoFASTER

12th July 2008, 21:16

Well pilgrim someone had to believe those B movies directly related to realilty and the factual history of the world. ;)

janvanvurpa

12th July 2008, 21:20

Thing is if you step on an ants nest they get pissed and run around like crazy but 5 minutes later they're back to normal. I'm not defending the actions of the US at all. I'm simply saying that Iraq could have taken positives out of this situation and taken control of their own destiny. Germany and Japan are prime examples of countries who have been bombed to hell and back but who have returned bigger and better because they've worked had at recovering.

We have a saying in Australia "Don't $h1t on your own doorstep". Perhaps you didn't have some everyday Iraqi's supporting the insurgency and if Iran didn't support the insurgency then the foreign forces would already have been out and the country would be exploiting it's oil wealth and the people would be getting filthy rich rather than getting killed by bombs placed by their own people.

You can blame the US for their idiotic decision to invade all you want but at the end of the day the only thing that is going to bring peace to Iraq is when Iraqi's stop $h1tting on their own people and their own country. It's one thing to have the US forces in Iraq but it's another for an Iraqi to go killing other Iraqi's.

Daneil, you cannot compare modern nation-states such as Australia, of anywhere in civilised Europe with places which are really "made up" solutions just drawn on a map by outside powers without regard to local identities, either ethnic or in places such as the mid-east where everybody is of the same ethnicity- then by sect or even tribe.
Look at the map prior to 1914, then look in 1921 or so.
See those new lines and countries everywhere?
Sunnis and Shiia and Hashemites and Kurds and Druze and Maronites and Bedouins and Abkahzians and Armenians etc....... didn't draw those borders.

Not everybody thinks in terms of "Nation". In fact the whole concept is fair new even in the West and most Western countries still raise the military units on a nominally "Regional" basis. (XXth Highland Fusiliers for example)

Iraq is a bad fiction and I doubt many there give a hoot about the concept of either democracy of bettering "the whole nation".
It's tribal society only instead of spears and clubs , they have AKs and IEDs.

Half the problem with the Bushlerites plans is thinking everybody thinks the same everywhere.

And you Finns, when trying to explain why Finland accepted help and became co-belligerents with the virulent Nazi regime you might remind them that the Arsenal of Democracy was extremely slow to assist Finland, indeed , their nearest neighbors, their former partners for 600 years Sweden failed to come to their aid in any official capacity---yes I know plenty of Swedes defied their government and fought by your guys sides.
Point out to them that at the birth of my country, born intending to be a democracy, fighting against a country itself in a struggle with limiting royal absolutism, turned to help to the most effectively autocratic Country in Europe at the time: France.
Remind the gringos that there's an English phrase "Any port in a storm".
We did it and brutal autocratic France assured our survival (and ironically in doing so planted the seeds of the Regime's demise just 8 years after our Revolution ended.)

Finland was for whatever dumb reasons shunned by the other Nordic countries Governments after 1919, when Soviets for no other reason than wanting to have the border more than 40km from Leningrad attacked Finland, 3 million vs 150,000,000, they took help that was offered.
It says NOTHING of if the Finnish Government or the Finnish people agreed one whit with the Nazi Parties vile politics.

And suggesting it does is idiotic, and of course shortsighted since you Finns should be acting horrified and shocked, yes shocked that USA allied themselves with the STALIN regime, the totalitarian, genocidal, anti-democratic, anti-semitic Stalinist Commies.
All that was known already in '39 so why did America fight along side the Commies is what you should be hammering away with.

Then maybe the ignorant brutes will shut up with their foolish ranting.

Tomi

12th July 2008, 21:49

And you Finns, when trying to explain why Finland accepted help and became co-belligerents with the virulent Nazi regime you might remind them that the Arsenal of Democracy was extremely slow to assist Finland, indeed , their nearest neighbors, their former partners for 600 years Sweden failed to come to their aid in any official capacity---yes I know plenty of Swedes defied their government and fought by your guys sides.
Point out to them that at the birth of my country, born intending to be a democracy, fighting against a country itself in a struggle with limiting royal absolutism, turned to help to the most effectively autocratic Country in Europe at the time: France.
Remind the gringos that there's an English phrase "Any port in a storm".
We did it and brutal autocratic France assured our survival (and ironically in doing so planted the seeds of the Regime's demise just 8 years after our Revolution ended.)

Finland was for whatever dumb reasons shunned by the other Nordic countries Governments after 1919, when Soviets for no other reason than wanting to have the border more than 40km from Leningrad attacked Finland, 3 million vs 150,000,000, they took help that was offered.
It says NOTHING of if the Finnish Government or the Finnish people agreed one whit with the Nazi Parties vile politics.

And suggesting it does is idiotic, and of course shortsighted since you Finns should be acting horrified and shocked, yes shocked that USA allied themselves with the STALIN regime, the totalitarian, genocidal, anti-democratic, anti-semitic Stalinist Commies.
All that was known already in '39 so why did America fight along side the Commies is what you should be hammering away with.

Then maybe the ignorant brutes will shut up with their foolish ranting.

the main thing is that you self know the reasons, and i think every finn knows, its true many people came to help not only from Sweden also from Estonia, Denmark, many Jews was also at the front, so its no doubt what the fighting was about, by the enemy those would be called "foreign fighters" today i guess, anyway thanks to all of them.

rah

13th July 2008, 01:22

I say screw these guys - the world should set the price of oil - probably 30 to 50 per barrel. These guys sell contracts to speculators and are just shoving it up our asses! Well sorry you have all the oil but no neutrons. Sorry it didn't work out! Bang. Tonight on news 5 see Muhat mu Orbit

One thing you might want to check dude. The USA will be sending enriched uranium to Saudia Arabia soon. Do you think that is a good idea?

The price of oil will not go down by much any time soon. Deman is outsrtipping supply. If you had of spent a trillion dollars on research and development instead of the war, there would not be an energy crisis.

Camelopard

13th July 2008, 02:56

I say screw these guys - the world should set the price of oil

Interesting point, in my opinion the ones that HAVE the oil that you so desperately want should be able to charge what they want for it! :)

Camelopard

13th July 2008, 03:42

Rani, not easy to quote from your reply, but here goes:

"That actually happened to my grandparets' families (both sides) in Poland..."

So that doesn't make it right for you to do it to some one else. My wife's family was forcibly removed from their homes by the Soviets, her grandfather was taken away never to be seen nor heard from again, her mother and aunites were raped repeatedly by Soviet soldiers while being forced to watch. Does that make it any more right! I don't think so.

"I Don't know if anyone knows this, but Mr. Carter and his center are funded and have been funded for ages by foundations that call jews "the enemy of all nations", ......"

So in fact you are really saying that Jimmy Carter a former President of the USA is merely a mouth piece of a terrorist organisation and incapable of thinking for himself?

" " '....but Israeli police Chief Dudi Cohen described the attacker as a "terrorist" (I guess you think running over commuters on their way to work isn't an act of terrorism but just ordinary construction conduct) who appeared to be acting alone. "It looks as if it was a spontaneous act," "

I didn't say he wasn't a terrorist, if you read it again the police chief said that he had no known affiliations with any terrorist organisation.

" Ask any number of Palestinians to describe their identity and they would tell you they are Muslim (devout ones too) first, Arab second and Palestinian third. "

So you can back this up? The ones I spoke to at lenght in Jordan and Syria who had been forcibly removed from their homes regarded themselves as Palestinian first and regard the day Israel was created as "The Casastrophe".

As you pointed out yourself you regard yourself as jewish first " I describe myself as a Jew, Zionist Israeli...." so by rights you should be able to go anywhere you like, after all being Jewish is like being Muslim in other words it is a religion not a race.
" History has shown me I won't be safe anywhere else" Well I can think of many places you could go, Australia, New Zealand, Canada to name a few? This has holds as much water as saying that palestinians should go and live in Indonesia as there are Mulsim in Indonesia as well.

"Say what you will you can't change the fact Israelites lived here as far as history goes..." I can trace my mothers side of the family back to a small village in Norfolk in the early 1700's, a direct line and not some myth, as far as I know this doesn't give me the right to go there and claim it as my own.......

As I said earlier, "treat people like sh*t and you will get it in return", in all honestly I doubt you can say that Israel as a state treats arabs as equals, using Collective Punishment is a very good example http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14122.htm and is illegal under the terms of the Geneva Convention.

Just like the driver of the front end loader, the Palestinian that shot and killed 8 students a school in march had no known terrorist affiliations and no links to millitant groups, also no terrorist group claimed responsibility . Maybe be just got tired of being treated as a second class citizen in his own homeland and just went bezerk?

Camelopard

13th July 2008, 07:00

Do you think Israel has an intention of 'wiping' its neigbours 'off the map'?

We don't.

Are you sure, what is Eretz Israel then?

Camelopard

13th July 2008, 07:09

Rani:

On being forcibly removed at gunpoint from your home as in Ghada Karmi's memoirs, (http://www.amazon.com/Search-Fatima-Palestinian-Story/dp/1859845614/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-3366296-7999804?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215926643&sr=8-1)
"That actually happened to my grandparets' families (both sides) in Poland..."

So that doesn't make it right for you to do it to some one else. My wife's family was forcibly removed from their home by the Soviets in what is now the Ukraine, her grandfather was taken away never to be seen nor heard from again, her mother and aunties were raped by Soviet soldiers while being forced to watch. Despicable acts indeed but this does not give my wife's family the justification to do this to someone else.

"I Don't know if anyone knows this, but Mr. Carter and his center are funded and have been funded for ages by foundations that call jews "the enemy of all nations", ......"

So in fact you are really saying that Jimmy Carter a former President of the USA is merely a mouth piece for an anti zionist organisation and incapable of thinking for himself?

" '....but Israeli police Chief Dudi Cohen described the attacker as a "terrorist" (I guess you think running over commuters on their way to work isn't an act of terrorism but just ordinary construction conduct) who appeared to be acting alone. "It looks as if it was a spontaneous act," "

I didn't say he wasn't a terrorist, if you read it again, the police chief said that he had no known affiliations with any terrorist organisation.

" Ask any number of Palestinians to describe their identity and they would tell you they are Muslim (devout ones too) first, Arab second and Palestinian third. "

So you can back this up? How many Palestininians do you actually know and talk to? The Palestinians that I spoke to at length in Jordan and Syria who had been forcibly removed from their homes in Palestine regarded themselves as Palestinian first and they regard the day Israel was created as "The Casastrophe".

As you pointed out yourself you regard yourself as jewish first " I describe myself as a Jew, Zionist Israeli...." so by rights you should be able to go anywhere you like, after all being Jewish is like being a Muslim, in other words it is a religion not a race.

"History has shown me I won't be safe anywhere else" This has holds as much water as saying that Palestinians should go and live in Indonesia as Indonesia is a Muslim state.

"Say what you will you can't change the fact Israelites lived here as far as history goes..." I can trace my mothers side of the family back to a small village in Norfolk in the early 1700's, a direct line and not some myth, as far as I know this doesn't give me the right to go there and claim it as my own.......

As I said earlier, "treat people like sh*t and you will get it in return", in all honestly I doubt you can say that Israel as a state treats arabs as equals, using Collective Punishment is a very good example http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle14122.htm (http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle14122.htm/) and is illegal under the terms of the Geneva Convention

Just like the driver of the front end loader, the Palestinian that shot and killed 8 students a school in march had no known terrorist affiliations and no links to millitant groups, also no terrorist group claimed responsibility . Maybe he just got tired of being treated as a second class citizen in his own homeland and just went bezerk?

Say what you want in his defence it is a fact that Menachem Begin was a terrorist wanted by the British.

The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs."
-- Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the 'Beasts,"' New Statesman, June 25, 1982.

"The Partition of Palestine is illegal. It will never be recognized .... Jerusalem was and will for ever be our capital. Eretz Israel will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And for Ever."
-- Menachem Begin, the day after the U.N. vote to partition Palestine

http://chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/essays/rokach.html (http://chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/essays/rokach.html)

Camelopard

13th July 2008, 07:14

A few more quotes for you from http://www.monabaker.com/quotes.htm

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.

"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998.

"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial."
-- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 March, 2001 quoted in BBC News Online

"We must expel Arabs and take their places."
-- David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.

"There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"
-- Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp. 121-122.

"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox, by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p. 99.

"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.

"If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel."
-- David Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth's Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).

"There is no such thing as a Palestinian people... It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country. They didn't exist."
-- Golda Meir, statement to The Sunday Times, 15 June, 1969.

"How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to."
-- Golda Meir, March 8, 1969.

"Any one who speaks in favor of bringing the Arab refugees back must also say how he expects to take the responsibility for it, if he is interested in the state of Israel. It is better that things are stated clearly and plainly: We shall not let this happen."
-- Golda Meir, 1961, in a speech to the Knesset, reported in Ner, October 1961

"This country exists as the fulfillment of a promise made by God Himself. It would be ridiculous to ask it to account for its legitimacy."
-- Golda Meir, Le Monde, 15 October 1971

"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!"
-- Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.

" Israel will] create in the course of the next 10 or 20 years conditions which would attract natural and voluntary migration of the refugees from the Gaza Strip and the west Bank to Jordan. To achieve this we have to come to agreement with King Hussein and not with Yasser Arafat."
-- Yitzhak Rabin (a "Prince of Peace" by Clinton's standards), explaining his method of ethnically cleansing the occupied land without stirring a world outcry.
(Quoted in David Shipler in the New York Times, 04/04/1983 citing Meir Cohen's remarks to the Knesset's foreign affairs and defense committee on March 16.)

"The past leaders of our movement left us a clear message to keep Eretz Israel from the Sea to the River Jordan for future generations, for the mass aliya (=Jewish immigration), and for the Jewish people, all of whom will be gathered into this country."
-- Former Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir declares at a Tel Aviv memorial service for former Likud leaders, November 1990. Jerusalem Domestic Radio Service.

"The settlement of the Land of Israel is the essence of Zionism. Without settlement, we will not fulfill Zionism. It's that simple."
-- Yitzhak Shamir, Maariv, 02/21/1997.

"(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls."
-- Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) Yitzhak Shamir in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988

"Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories."
-- Benyamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, speaking to students at Bar Ilan University, from the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989.

"The Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them meat, they want more"....
-- Ehud Barak, Prime Minister of Israel at the time - August 28, 2000. Reported in the Jerusalem Post August 30, 2000

"If we thought that instead of 200 Palestinian fatalities, 2,000 dead would put an end to the fighting at a stroke, we would use much more force...."
-- Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, quoted in Associated Press, November 16, 2000.

"I would have joined a terrorist organization."
-- Ehud Barak's response to Gideon Levy, a columnist for the Ha'aretz newspaper, when Barak was asked what he would have done if he had been born a Palestinian.

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.

"Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours...Everything we don't grab will go to them."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, Nov. 15, 1998.

"Israel may have the right to put others on trial, but certainly no one has the right to put the Jewish people and the State of Israel on trial."
-- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, 25 March, 2001 quoted in BBC News Online

Rani

13th July 2008, 08:34

Rani:

"That actually happened to my grandparets' families (both sides) in Poland..."

"I Don't know if anyone knows this, but Mr. Carter and his center are funded and have been funded for ages by foundations that call jews "the enemy of all nations", ......"

So in fact you are really saying that Jimmy Carter a former President of the USA is merely a mouth piece for an anti zionist organisation and incapable of thinking for himself?

Yeah I am. On every given day people on this forum say much worse of GWB, the current holder of office. I think he can think whatever he wants, but he can be in noway objective with the amounts of oil money he receives regularly.

" Ask any number of Palestinians to describe their identity and they would tell you they are Muslim (devout ones too) first, Arab second and Palestinian third. "

So you can back this up? How many Palestininians do you actually know and talk to? The Palestinians that I spoke to at length in Jordan and Syria who had been forcibly removed from their homes in Palestine regarded themselves as Palestinian first and they regard the day Israel was created as "The Casastrophe".

I've met quite a few as I served IN all the hotspots. How in length could you be when chatting to people as rally cars whiz by?
BTW why didn't you visit Israel also? Were you afraid to see the truth?

Those palestinians have homes in Syria and Jordan, are in no way prosecuted and live by people of similar beliefs. It is safe to say they are safe leaving there for the next hundreds of years without fear of hatred and prosecution.

"History has shown me I won't be safe anywhere else" This has holds as much water as saying that Palestinians should go and live in Indonesia as Indonesia is a Muslim state.

I urge you to find a place where anti semitism does not exist and I can be assured of liberty and freedom for the next hundred years. Do you know any other Jewish states?

"Say what you will you can't change the fact Israelites lived here as far as history goes..." I can trace my mothers side of the family back to a small village in Norfolk in the early 1700's, a direct line and not some myth, as far as I know this doesn't give me the right to go there and claim it as my own.......

Were you ever prosecuted and vomitted out of where you live?
Jews lived here 3000 thousand years ago and have a right to live here.

As I said earlier, "treat people like sh*t and you will get it in return", in all honestly I doubt you can say that Israel as a state treats arabs as equals, using Collective Punishment is a very good example http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle14122.htm (http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle14122.htm/) and is illegal under the terms of the Geneva Convention

The link you gave doesn't work. I've worked with arabs, I've served with arabs. My village is vey close to some muslim villages. I get and got no privilege over them.

Just like the driver of the front end loader, the Palestinian that shot and killed 8 students a school in march had no known terrorist affiliations and no links to millitant groups, also no terrorist group claimed responsibility . Maybe he just got tired of being treated as a second class citizen in his own homeland and just went bezerk?
How would you glorify the school shootings in the US over the last decade or so? were those murderers tired of being treated badly?
How about the kid who went on a terrible rampage in Finland? was he tired of being treated badly?
I guess it's okay to start killing if you fell like you've been treated badly.

As for your quoting frenzy, You should also look at some quotes told by the other side at roughly the same time. Read on: http://www.zionism.netfirms.com/anti-Zionist-quotes.html

One other thing... You do know that the 'expulsion of arabs' talked about by Ariel Sharon and others is by giving people financial incentives to move?
they don't have to accept.
Comparing Israel to RSA in the era of Appartheid is populism in its lowest form. Israel is democratic and gives (by law) equal freedoms to citizens with no regard to religion, race or sex. Do our neighbors deliver the same?

Camelopard

13th July 2008, 08:53

"I've met quite a few as I served IN all the hotspots. How in length could you be when chatting to people as rally cars whiz by?
BTW why didn't you visit Israel also? Were you afraid to see the truth?"

You have absolutely no idea how long I was in Jordan for, who I spoke to, what I spoke about or anything else that I did whilst I was there.
How do you know if I haven't been to Israel? or anywhere else for that matter. Do you really think that I would all that way just to see a rally and not look around? Believe it or not, people do go to Israel and come away with very bad impressions of the place and at least I can look at things with an open mind
So you were in all the hotspots serving in the idf, I guess that you are going to have an impartial view about palestinians, aren't you!

Giving people financial inducements to leave that's akin to saying, "we gave forwarning that we were going to bomb the King David Hotel, so that makes a criminal terrorist act alright"
If Timothy McViegh had given warning of his intention to bomb the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, him giving warning would have made his terrorist/criminal act?

As for my "posting frenzy" I would like others to see the palestinian point of view for a change, rather than being constanly bomblasted by the zionist version of history.

Camelopard

13th July 2008, 08:59

"I guess it's okay to start killing if you fell like you've been treated badly."

But is the whole premise of a lot of what you have posted, along the lines of "it happened to us in Poland or whetever so it's ok for us to do it to someone else", get real!

"I urge you to find a place where anti semitism does not exist and I can be assured of liberty and freedom for the next hundred years. "

You tell me where there are any states that don't have racism or biogtry against any religion or race and I'll happily move there as well.

I think it is fine to include South Africa and aparthied in any discussion of Israel after all Israel was one of the biggest supporters of SA in military terms.

Rani

13th July 2008, 09:20

"I've met quite a few as I served IN all the hotspots. How in length could you be when chatting to people as rally cars whiz by?
BTW why didn't you visit Israel also? Were you afraid to see the truth?"

You have absolutely no idea how long I was in Jordan for, who I spoke to, what I spoke about or anything else that I did whilst I was there.
How do you know if I haven't been to Israel? or anywhere else for that matter. Do you really think that I would all that way just to see a rally and not look around? Believe it or not, people do go to Israel and come away with very bad impressions of the place and at least I can look at things with an open mind
So you were in all the hotspots serving in the idf, I guess that you are going to have an impartial view about palestinians, aren't you!

I try to have an open mind. If you don't believe I do then why do you believe it's worthwhile to have this debate with me?

Giving people financial inducements to leave that's akin to saying, "we gave forwarning that we were going to bomb the King David Hotel, so that makes a criminal terrorist act alright" It is not akin one bit. they can take the money and move, or say no and stay. Just like any real estate developer would do when wanting a piece of land.

As I said before, terrorism against military/government should be taken differently than when targeting innocent lives. I think there is a real difference in ethos between Lehi and Hamas.

As for my "posting frenzy" I would like others to see the palestinian point of view for a change, rather than being constanly bomblasted by the zionist version of history.
There is no doubt who has their cause fought for better in the international arena. Not Israel.
Were you ever in Israel?

Camelopard

13th July 2008, 09:28

If we are going to contiue this, you need to sort out the manner in which you quote things from my posts, when replying to your comments I try and put yours in bold, Some of the things in the previous to last post of yours make it look I've said things that I didn't.

The link that didn't work is:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14122.htm

As for the comment on the school shooting in the US and other places, you only have to do a search of the forums to see my point of view on those, as I tried to explain, obviously not very well, if a palestinian commits an act of killing it is immediately classed as "terrorism", if it happens in a school in the US or Finland, it isn't terrorism, it's just a case of some poor sad loser with easy access to weapons going crazy. Was Rabin's murder an act of terrorism?
What about Baruch Goldstein, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember you stating that his actions were an act ot terrorism, for those that didn't see it first time round, here is the link again:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Goldstein

Also I'm yet to see you admit that Begin was a terrorist.

my previous comment: "As for my "posting frenzy" I would like others to see the palestinian point of view for a change, rather than being constanly bomblasted by the zionist version of history."
your reply: "There is no doubt who has their cause fought for better in the international arena. Not Israel."

Sorry? are you saying that the Palestinians get better press than the zionists? You don't seriously believe that for one minute do you?

Rani

13th July 2008, 09:29

"I guess it's okay to start killing if you fell like you've been treated badly."

That's demagoguery and you know it.

"I urge you to find a place where anti semitism does not exist and I can be assured of liberty and freedom for the next hundred years. "

You tell me where there are any states that don't have racism or biogtry against any religion or race and I'll happily move there as well.
Are you a christian living in Australia? If so your bases are pretty covered imo.

I think it is fine to include South Africa and aparthied in any discussion of Israel after all Israel was one of the biggest supporters of SA in military terms.
Italy was a supporter of Germany in WWII. Were they Nazis?
America supported the Mujaheedeen in the 70's. Do they share views with Al Qaeda?
Russia supports Iran. Do they believe the Holocaust is a myth?
You get real!

Rani

13th July 2008, 09:36

As for the comment on the school shooting in the US and other places, you only have to do a search of the forums to see my point of view on those, as I tried to explain, obviously not very well, if a palestinian commits an act of killing it is immediately classed as "terrorism", if it happens in a school in the US or Finland, it isn't terrorism, it's just a case of some poor sad loser with easy access to weapons going crazy. Was Rabin's murder an act of terrorism? Y-E-S
What about Baruch Goldstein, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember you stating that his actions were an act ot terrorism, for those that didn't see it first time round, here is the link again:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Goldstein
Of course he was a terrorist. Killing innocent people while praying is terrorism clear and simple. What he did is no different than the terrorist attacks on Jerusalem of the last four months.

Also I'm yet to see you admit that Begin was a terrorist.
Targetting military/government targets is not terrorism in my book, As I've said before I think that targetting soldiers is legitimate. When Hizbuallah and Hamas target soldiers I don't like it of course, but I think it's legitimate resistance on their part.

Camelopard

13th July 2008, 09:39

from post 181, it should read

"Giving people financial inducements to leave that's akin to saying, "we gave forewarning that we were going to bomb the King David Hotel, so that makes a criminal/terrorist act alright"
If Timothy McViegh had given warning of his intention to bomb the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, him giving warning would have made his terrorist/criminal actions alright?"

Damn 15 minute posting rule. :)

Camelopard

13th July 2008, 09:43

Targetting military/government targets is not terrorism in my book, As I've said before I think that targetting soldiers is legitimate. When Hizbuallah and Hamas target soldiers I don't like it of course, but I think it's legitimate resistance on their part.

So getting back to my pet hate, the King David Hotel bombing, did you know the majority of people killed were staff of the hotel, were they legitimate targets or just collateral damage?

Rani

13th July 2008, 09:57

So getting back to my pet hate, the King David Hotel bombing, did you know the majority of people killed were staff of the hotel, were they legitimate targets or just collateral damage?
They weren't targeted. They were accidentaly killed and them dying was not the purpose of the attack, unlike attacks against Israel over the last 60 years or so.

Eki

13th July 2008, 18:31

Targetting military/government targets is not terrorism in my book, As I've said before I think that targetting soldiers is legitimate. When Hizbuallah and Hamas target soldiers I don't like it of course, but I think it's legitimate resistance on their part.
So, it's legitimate even when the soldiers are UN military observers? OK.

gadjo_dilo

14th July 2008, 06:45

So, it's legitimate even when the soldiers are UN military observers? OK.

Observations may be done by civilians as well. If UN decided it's neccesary a military force they should know something....

Rollo

14th July 2008, 07:09

Wait.
Your country allies itself with one of the most evil Governments in History. A country that practiced Genocide against an entire religion...

This sounds suspiciously like the country which I live in. I live in a country that fights in other country's wars but never starts any, and the only time ever asked for help, got righteously told that it was unimportant.

gadjo_dilo

14th July 2008, 08:42

Wait.
Your country allies itself with one of the most evil Governments in History. A country that practiced Genocide against an entire religion as well as Slavs, Gypsy and Homosexuals.
Finland allied itself with Adolf Hitler and Nazi Germany and the United States were the bad guys?

If we continue to reason in such a simplistic way then yes, US were also the bad guys.
During the WWII they were allies with Soviet Union, a country where in the name of "struggle of class " millions of people were sent to death. Stalin wasn't a brighter figure than Hitler and the conditions of russian gulags were similar to those of concentration camps.

Daniel

14th July 2008, 10:18

Daneil, you cannot compare modern nation-states such as Australia, of anywhere in civilised Europe with places which are really "made up" solutions just drawn on a map by outside powers without regard to local identities, either ethnic or in places such as the mid-east where everybody is of the same ethnicity- then by sect or even tribe.
Look at the map prior to 1914, then look in 1921 or so.
See those new lines and countries everywhere?
Sunnis and Shiia and Hashemites and Kurds and Druze and Maronites and Bedouins and Abkahzians and Armenians etc....... didn't draw those borders.

Not everybody thinks in terms of "Nation". In fact the whole concept is fair new even in the West and most Western countries still raise the military units on a nominally "Regional" basis. (XXth Highland Fusiliers for example)

Iraq is a bad fiction and I doubt many there give a hoot about the concept of either democracy of bettering "the whole nation".
It's tribal society only instead of spears and clubs , they have AKs and IEDs.

Half the problem with the Bushlerites plans is thinking everybody thinks the same everywhere.

And you Finns, when trying to explain why Finland accepted help and became co-belligerents with the virulent Nazi regime you might remind them that the Arsenal of Democracy was extremely slow to assist Finland, indeed , their nearest neighbors, their former partners for 600 years Sweden failed to come to their aid in any official capacity---yes I know plenty of Swedes defied their government and fought by your guys sides.
Point out to them that at the birth of my country, born intending to be a democracy, fighting against a country itself in a struggle with limiting royal absolutism, turned to help to the most effectively autocratic Country in Europe at the time: France.
Remind the gringos that there's an English phrase "Any port in a storm".
We did it and brutal autocratic France assured our survival (and ironically in doing so planted the seeds of the Regime's demise just 8 years after our Revolution ended.)

Finland was for whatever dumb reasons shunned by the other Nordic countries Governments after 1919, when Soviets for no other reason than wanting to have the border more than 40km from Leningrad attacked Finland, 3 million vs 150,000,000, they took help that was offered.
It says NOTHING of if the Finnish Government or the Finnish people agreed one whit with the Nazi Parties vile politics.

And suggesting it does is idiotic, and of course shortsighted since you Finns should be acting horrified and shocked, yes shocked that USA allied themselves with the STALIN regime, the totalitarian, genocidal, anti-democratic, anti-semitic Stalinist Commies.
All that was known already in '39 so why did America fight along side the Commies is what you should be hammering away with.

Then maybe the ignorant brutes will shut up with their foolish ranting.

Where did I compare anywhere to Australia? I simply said we have a saying in Australia. :confused:

Camelopard

14th July 2008, 10:21

Observations may be done by civilians as well. If UN decided it's neccesary a military force they should know something....

I think Eki is referring to the deliberate targeting of an UN observer post in southern Lebanon in 2006, despite repeated warnings by the UN that they were shelling close to the observer point.

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Despite_6_warnings_Israel_bombed_and_killed_4_UN_o bservers

" "The fatal strike with a "precision-guided weapon" according to UN military personnel hit the post at about 7.20pm. The victims were Austrian, Canadian, Chinese and Finnish UN-observers.
"On six separate occasions he [Lieutenant-Colonel John Molloy] was in contact with the Israelis to warn them that their bombardment was endangering the lives of UN staff in South Lebanon". "

Of course the IDF put out a statement that the post was unintentionally hit.

Tomi

14th July 2008, 10:30

Observations may be done by civilians as well. If UN decided it's neccesary a military force they should know something....

the UN observators are unarmed, practically civilians, and only there to observe not to take part in any way.

Daniel

14th July 2008, 10:33

the UN observators are unarmed, practically civilians, and only there to observe not to take part in any way.
You forget that with Israel if you're not with them you're against them......

Daniel

14th July 2008, 10:38

They weren't targeted. They were accidentaly killed and them dying was not the purpose of the attack, unlike attacks against Israel over the last 60 years or so.

So when you launch an attack it's unfortunate when others die. But when others do it they do it on purpose? Give me a break.

gadjo_dilo

14th July 2008, 11:46

the UN observators are unarmed, practically civilians, and only there to observe not to take part in any way.

But he said " UN military observers " so it's obvious they belong to an army no matter they have weapons or not. A member of an army is trained and armed for war. If sometimes the militaries duties include observation it doesn't mean they should be treated as civilians. For innocent observations you may use even a team of meteorologists.

Tomi

14th July 2008, 11:52

But he said " UN military observers " so it's obvious they belong to an army no matter they have weapons or not. A member of an army is trained and armed for war. If sometimes the militaries duties include observation it doesn't mean they should be treated as civilians. For innocent observations you may use even a team of meteorologists.

You dont seem to know that there is certain rules what comes to UN observers, that to my knowledge even Israel has accepted, the killing of those can not be defended in any way.

Daniel

14th July 2008, 13:25

But he said " UN military observers " so it's obvious they belong to an army no matter they have weapons or not. A member of an army is trained and armed for war. If sometimes the militaries duties include observation it doesn't mean they should be treated as civilians. For innocent observations you may use even a team of meteorologists.

I don't quite get your point. Regardless of whether they're circus performers, bricklayers, salespeople or soldiers..... if they are there observing then they shouldn't be shot at.

gadjo_dilo

14th July 2008, 14:04

I don't quite get your point. Regardless of whether they're circus performers, bricklayers, salespeople or soldiers..... if they are there observing then they shouldn't be shot at.

My point is that a military guy on mission ( no matter what mission he has, he must execute an order ) is always exposed.

Daniel

14th July 2008, 15:01

My point is that a military guy on mission ( no matter what mission he has, he must execute an order ) is always exposed.

... and if they were paper delivery boys Israel wouldn't having knowingly killed them?

:rotflmao:

Roamy

14th July 2008, 15:22

extremist don't care - every man women and child is fair game. So in the end
you will need to fight fire with fire!!

Daniel

14th July 2008, 15:32

extremist don't care - every man women and child is fair game. So in the end
you will need to fight fire with fire!!

Erm..... these observers weren't firing.

Try again

TOgoFASTER

14th July 2008, 15:39

extremist don't care - every man women and child is fair game. So in the end
you will need to fight fire with fire!!

So it would seem. LOL

Eki

14th July 2008, 17:56

Observations may be done by civilians as well. If UN decided it's neccesary a military force they should know something....
Actually, civilians usually know less about warfare, weapons and such than highly trained and educated military officers and experts who know better what they're seeing. Maybe the ones Israelis killed saw something Israel didn't want them to see.

Tomi

14th July 2008, 18:12

Maybe the ones Israelis killed saw something Israel didn't want them to see.

Thats the most likely explanation, because Israel also refused to co-operate in a proper investigation.

Rani

15th July 2008, 19:28

Thats the most likely explanation, because Israel also refused to co-operate in a proper investigation.

I don't buy this 'Israel killed the UN soldiers' theory. We are not savage killers and have no motivation to kill innocent soldiers. As I said before war is a messy business, and I believe the order to stop firing just didn't get across to the soldier who squeezed the trigger (the missile was aimed against the nearby Hizbuallh museum which surprise surprise wasn't only a museum). You have to understand that this terrible accident occured while Israel was engaged in a war with Hizbuallah. As I understand after researching this subject this was an awful case of friendly fire, something that regretfully happens in war sometimes.
We have no problem with the UNIFIL force in Lebanon, in spite of occurances like this: http://judaism.about.com/library/1_terrorism/bl_hardov_un.htm
and the fact they freely let weapons smuggled from Iran pass to the hands of Hizbuallah against resolution 1701 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4785963.stm).

Tomi

15th July 2008, 19:31

I don't buy this 'Israel killed the UN soldiers' theory. We are not savage killers and have no motivation to kill innocent soldiers. As I said before war is a messy business, and I believe the order to stop firing just didn't get across to the soldier who squeezed the trigger (the missile was aimed against the nearby Hizbuallh museum which surprise surprise wasn't only a museum). You have to understand that this terrible accident occured while Israel was engaged in a war with Hizbuallah. As I understand after researching this subject this was an awful case of friendly fire, something that regretfully happens in war sometimes.
We have no problem with the UNIFIL force in Lebanon, in spite of occurances like this: http://judaism.about.com/library/1_terrorism/bl_hardov_un.htm
and the fact they freely let weapons smuggled from Iran pass to the hands of Hizbuallah against resolution 1701 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4785963.stm).

i would buy this if there would have been a independent investigation, but Israel refused that for some reason.

Eki

15th July 2008, 21:04

i would buy this if there would have been a independent investigation, but Israel refused that for some reason.
Yes, they should have handed the pilot over to the UN to be questioned, and if necessary, put in the war crimes tribunal in Hague.

Rani

15th July 2008, 21:40

i would buy this if there would have been a independent investigation, but Israel refused that for some reason.
We tend not to trust the UN after the Har Dov kidnapping. http://judaism.about.com/library/1_t..._hardov_un.htm
That might be the reason, but I don't know.

Anyway, The idea that this pilot intentionally bombed a UNIFIL outpost out of hatred towards the UN in the middle of a war when in risk of AA fire, is absurd if not skewed beyond belief. Pilots (especially fighter pilots) are the cream of the crop as you may well know. These aren't your typical street thugs/hooligan football supporters, but rather civilized moral types. Those kind of people that work with you at Intel.

Tomi

15th July 2008, 21:59

We tend not to trust the UN after the Har Dov kidnapping. http://judaism.about.com/library/1_t..._hardov_un.htm
That might be the reason, but I don't know.

Anyway, The idea that this pilot intentionally bombed a UNIFIL outpost out of hatred towards the UN in the middle of a war when in risk of AA fire, is absurd if not skewed beyond belief. Pilots (especially fighter pilots) are the cream of the crop as you may well know. These aren't your typical street thugs/hooligan football supporters, but rather civilized moral types. Those kind of people that work with you at Intel.

yes,yes sure

Eki

15th July 2008, 22:09

Anyway, The idea that this pilot intentionally bombed a UNIFIL outpost out of hatred towards the UN in the middle of a war when in risk of AA fire, is absurd if not skewed beyond belief. Pilots (especially fighter pilots) are the cream of the crop as you may well know. These aren't your typical street thugs/hooligan football supporters, but rather civilized moral types. Those kind of people that work with you at Intel.

I guess it much depends on what the Israel air force feeds them:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphetamine

Amphetamines have been, and are still used, by militaries around the world. British troops used 72 million amphetamine tablets in the second world war[63] and the RAF got through so many that "Methedrine won the Battle of Britain" according to one report[64]. American bomber pilots use amphetamines ("go pills") to stay awake during long missions. The Tarnak Farm incident in 2002 is an example of when an American F16-pilot accidentally killed several friendly soldiers on the ground, partly due to the use of amphetamine.

rah

15th July 2008, 23:31

extremist don't care - every man women and child is fair game.

That would seem to be the case. Be they Muslim, Jewish or Christian extremists.

Tomi

16th July 2008, 00:01

That would seem to be the case. Be they Muslim, Jewish or Christian extremists.

Thats true, I'm sure happy to live in a country where religion is a marginal thing, same like our christian party, they dont have much to say either.

Rani

16th July 2008, 04:40

I guess it much depends on what the Israel air force feeds them:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphetamine

Just regular kosher food...

SOD

16th July 2008, 11:17

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1002425.html

They knew they were dead before the war even started. the war didnt even get thier corpses returned. The upper crust there, dont care about the lives of anyone, it seems.

Daniel

16th July 2008, 11:46

Thats true, I'm sure happy to live in a country where religion is a marginal thing, same like our christian party, they dont have much to say either.

:up:

I'm not a religious person myself but I think religion can be a very good thing on a personal basis for people. But on a larger scale religion only ever causes problems in the long run. If you look at the majority of conflicts most of them have had something to do with religion and none of them have ever solved anything.....

SOD

16th July 2008, 11:52

religion on frucks up when people stop believing in the prophets

schmenke

16th July 2008, 14:27

:up:

I'm not a religious person myself but I think religion can be a very good thing on a personal basis for people. But on a larger scale religion only ever causes problems in the long run. If you look at the majority of conflicts most of them have had something to do with religion and none of them have ever solved anything.....

That's largely the case for countries that refuse to separate the functioning of government from religion. Many seem to think that religious conviction can be a replacement for a constitution guaranteeing civil rights and freedoms. An infringement on their faith is therefore an affront to the country as a whole.

Rani

16th July 2008, 15:58

:up:

But on a larger scale religion only ever causes problems in the long run. If you look at the majority of conflicts most of them have had something to do with religion and none of them have ever solved anything.....
Amen to that!!! :rotflmao:

Roamy

17th July 2008, 16:32

This seems about where we are headed !!

HEADLINES FROM THE YEAR: 2029

Ozone created by electric cars now killing millions in the seventh largest country in the world, Mexifornia, formerly known as California ..

White minorities still trying to have English recognized as Mexifornia's third language.

Spotted Owl plague threatens northwestern United States crops and livestock.

Baby conceived naturally! Scientists stumped.

Couple petitions court to reinstate heterosexual marriage.

Iran still closed off; physicists estimate it will take at least 10 more years before radioactivity decreases to safe levels.

France pleads for global help after being taken over by Jamaica . No other ry comes forward to help the beleaguered nation!

Castro finally dies at age 112; Cuban cigars can now be imported legally, but President Chelsea Clinton has banned all smoking.

George Z. Bush says he will run for President in 2036

Postal Service raises price of first class stamp to $17.89 and reduces mail delivery to Wednesdays only.

85-year $75.8 billion study: Diet and exercise is the key to weight loss.

Average weight of Americans drops to 250 lbs.

Global cooling blamed for citrus crop failure for third consecutive year in Mexifornia and Floruba.

Abortion clinics now available in every High School in United States

Senate still blocking drilling in ANWR even though gas is selling for 4532 Pesos per liter and gas stations are only open on Tuesdays and Fridays.

Massachusetts executes last remaining conservative.

Supreme Court rules punishment of criminals violates their civil rights.

Average height of NBA players is now nine feet, seven inches.

New federal law requires that all nail clippers, screwdrivers, fly swatters and rolled-up newspapers must be registered by January 2030 .

IRS sets lowest tax rate at 75 percent.

Floruba voters still having trouble with voting machines.

Daniel

17th July 2008, 16:33

This seems about where we are headed !!

HEADLINES FROM THE YEAR: 2029

Ozone created by electric cars now killing millions in the seventh largest country in the world, Mexifornia, formerly known as California ..

White minorities still trying to have English recognized as Mexifornia's third language.

Spotted Owl plague threatens northwestern United States crops and livestock.

Baby conceived naturally! Scientists stumped.

Couple petitions court to reinstate heterosexual marriage.

Iran still closed off; physicists estimate it will take at least 10 more years before radioactivity decreases to safe levels.

France pleads for global help after being taken over by Jamaica . No other ry comes forward to help the beleaguered nation!

Castro finally dies at age 112; Cuban cigars can now be imported legally, but President Chelsea Clinton has banned all smoking.

George Z. Bush says he will run for President in 2036

Postal Service raises price of first class stamp to $17.89 and reduces mail delivery to Wednesdays only.

85-year $75.8 billion study: Diet and exercise is the key to weight loss.

Average weight of Americans drops to 250 lbs.

Global cooling blamed for citrus crop failure for third consecutive year in Mexifornia and Floruba.

Abortion clinics now available in every High School in United States

Senate still blocking drilling in ANWR even though gas is selling for 4532 Pesos per liter and gas stations are only open on Tuesdays and Fridays.

Massachusetts executes last remaining conservative.

Supreme Court rules punishment of criminals violates their civil rights.

Average height of NBA players is now nine feet, seven inches.

New federal law requires that all nail clippers, screwdrivers, fly swatters and rolled-up newspapers must be registered by January 2030 .

IRS sets lowest tax rate at 75 percent.

Floruba voters still having trouble with voting machines.
Headline from today "Fousto makes a good point.... oh wait no he doesn't!"

janvanvurpa

18th July 2008, 06:32

This seems about where we are headed !!

HEADLINES FROM THE YEAR: 2029

Ozone created by electric cars now killing millions in the seventh largest country in the world, Mexifornia, formerly known as California ..

.
Have'nt you figured out after stealing whole quotes and pasting them without attributing the source is best plagarism and at worst theft?
You have been told that before.
Google:
http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&q=Headlines+from+the+year+2029&btnG=Google+Search
Web Results 1 - 20 of about 98,500 Dutch and English and Finnish and French and German and Swedish pages for Headlines from the year 2029. (0.16 seconds)

Headlines from the year 2029
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You know better, just seems you want people to think you have an original thought, and as we have seen yet again, you guys take the easy way and post without giving any credit to where you stole it from, not one ounce of own thought.
Typical.
Shameless.

Lame.

ShiftingGears

18th July 2008, 09:44

Have'nt you figured out after stealing whole quotes and pasting them without attributing the source is best plagarism and at worst theft?
You have been told that before.
Google:
http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&q=Headlines+from+the+year+2029&btnG=Google+Search
Web Results 1 - 20 of about 98,500 Dutch and English and Finnish and French and German and Swedish pages for Headlines from the year 2029. (0.16 seconds)

Headlines from the year 2029
Headlines from the year 2029: Ozone created by electric cars now killing millions in the seventh largest country in the world, Mexifornia formerly known as ...
http://www.thepowerhour.com/news/headlines_2029.htm - 8k - Cached - Similar pages
eMusings: News Headlines for the Year 2029 - Chez Goodman
News Headlines for the Year 2029. Well, I love science fiction, ... So what could be better than this funny look at headlines from the year 2029, ...
dkgoodman.com/2004/08/news-headlines-for-year-2029.html - 73k - Cached - Similar pages
Headlines from the year 2029
Jul 3, 2007 ... Re: Headlines from the year 2029. These are hilarious. Did you come up with them yourself? Mexifornia's 3rd language English? hahahahaha ...
http://www.rickroot.com/blog/1/2007/07/Headlines-from-the-year-2029.cfm - 29k - Cached - Similar pages
Headlines from the year 2029 - TheSkiDiva.com
Sep 7, 2006 ... Headlines from the year 2029 Random Humor. ... 85-years, $75.8 billion study: Diet and Exercise is the key to weight loss. ...
http://www.theskidiva.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76 - 38k - Cached - Similar pages
Headlines from the year 2029 « DIG THE HEAVY
Oct 17, 2007 ... Headlines from the year 2029 · Bill Kurtis: Army Tests Bio-Weapons on U.S. Citizens · Baby Boomer #1 Applies For Social Security ...
digtheheavy.wordpress.com/2007/10/17/headlines-from-the-year-2029/ - 65k - Cached - Similar pages
Club Avalanche -> Headlines from the year 2029
Jun 25, 2007 ... Welcome to Club Avalanche! Learn about your Chevy Avalanche. We address every aspect of the vehicle. There are Local and National Meets.
http://www.clubavalanche.com/forums/show.php/showtopic/11683 - 41k - Cached - Similar pages
HEADLINES FROM THE YEAR: 2029 | Clipmarks
Postal Service raises price of first class stamp to $17.89 and reduces mail delivery to Wednesdays only. 85-year $75.8 billion study: Diet and Exercise is ...
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10 Headlines from the year 2029 - The Oregon Catalyst
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Headlines From The Year: 2029 - The Patriot Files Forums
Headlines From The Year: 2029 General Posts. ... 85-year $75.8 billion study: Diet and exercise is the key to weight loss. Average weight of Americans drops ...
http://www.patriotfiles.com/forum/showthread.php?p=371304 - 35k - Cached - Similar pages
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Jun 22, 2006 ... Headlines for the year 2029 the recovery movement has gone into full swing at last count there were 36, 692856 programs based on the 12 step ...
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HEADLINES FROM THE YEAR: 2029 | Ron Paul - The Daily Paul's ...
Jul 3, 2008 ... A financial collapse is not the end of the world, though it may feel like it. It is likely the end of the US dollar, and the end of US ...
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/54108 - 52k - Cached - Similar pages
Headlines For The Year 2029
May 8, 2006 ... Headlines from the year 2029! Baby conceived naturally - - scientists stumped. Couple petitions court to reinstate heterosexual marriage. ...
http://www.trap17.com/forums/headlines-year-2029-t36616.html - 85k - Cached - Similar pages

You know better, just seems you want people to think you have an original thought, and as we have seen yet again, you guys take the easy way and post without giving any credit to where you stole it from, not one ounce of own thought.
Typical.
Shameless.

Lame.

Even forgot the "Terminator sent back in time to the year 1984 to kill Sarah Connor" headline. Sheesh.