Buying a Camera?

[wacked]

Hi everybody.. so what camera's do you'll use, anyone got any suggestions of an SLR..


well my main question is that i will be travelling to Thailand and then Singapore.. anyone got an idea.. where would be a better and yeah cheaper place to buy a camera?

[ioan]

Try a Sony Alpha.

[MrJan]

I don't have an SLR but got a Fujifilm S5700 which is a really compact little thing that I'm quite happy with. The best thing about it is how compact it is so that I can just hold it in one hand and not really have a problem carrying it. the 10x optical zoom is fairly good too.

This pic was taken using full zoom and isn't too bad
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3095/2587584865_b5c9cfbb63.jpg

It's also not bad at capturing moving images (this photo was taken the first time I used the camera and I'm definately no photographer)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2144/2287102700_e71d45e1ca.jpg

If you are a really serious photographer then I'm not the man for advice but for the motorsport snapshots that I take then this will be fine.

Also the movie mode isn't too bad as shown HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAE6bczEGrs)
Make sure to click the 'watch in high quality' bit

[71minus2]

i had the Fuji s5000 and that was a superb camera. I recommend buying a wide angle lens, filters (especially a polarising one) and if they make it for the s5700 a zoom lens adapter.

I just upgraded to Sony A200. 18-70mm lens as standard, i bought a 70-300mm zoom lens too. Just need to get to some motor racing to see what it does but as far as quality goes here's a picture of a bird.

http://image66.webshots.com/666/1/84/29/2935184290053230182pClBhh_fs.jpg

Richard.

[Daniel]

Get an SLR. No compact or pretend SLR can beat a proper one.

I would reccomend a D80 or whatever the Canon equivalent is though the cheaper Canon's don't feel as tough as the low end Nikon's. Nikon's have a nice simple menu system an are easy to use.

I personally would go for a Camera brand as well. Sony's are probably fine but you're buying a camera and not a TV :) No offence 71minus2 :p

[GridGirl]

I have a Samsung point and shoot and use a Canon 30D.

I will always use Canon's from now on as I have their lenses. If your going to buy an SLR it's something you need to think about as the majority of people don't switch brands once they've bought a lense or 5. :)

[wacked]

thanks guys.. my thoughts exactly daniel.. Sony do make great TV's and some other electronics, dont think really the best cameras.. I have decided on buying the Canon EOS 450D, also called the Digital Rebel XSi.. i now need to know since im travelling.. where do u think or know i can get my camera cheaper, Thailand or Singapore, if anyone knows any shops would be great too..

[rah]

Nice, As Daniel said, Canon or Nikon are both great. I have a 40d and love it. If you can get a body only and a better lense, instead of a kit. If you want any suggestions on lenses let me know.

[Valve Bounce]

thanks guys.. my thoughts exactly daniel.. Sony do make great TV's and some other electronics, dont think really the best cameras.. I have decided on buying the Canon EOS 450D, also called the Digital Rebel XSi.. i now need to know since im travelling.. where do u think or know i can get my camera cheaper, Thailand or Singapore, if anyone knows any shops would be great too..

There is one huge building in Singapore where they have everything electronic. You can check prices in quite a few stores to ensure you are not getting fleeced, but in the main, I understand they don't cheat tourists or anyone else there. http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/Asia/Singapore/Singapore-1495679/Shopping-Singapore-Sim_Lim_Square-BR-1.html

I bought my mobile phone there for AUD$200 when the same one was selling in Australia at the time for $800. The above link will give you all the advice you need, including how to get there.

Avoid all shops that give you a ridiculously low price or those that tell you they dont have the product in stock so buy a different but "better" product because they are out to rip you off. Make sure you get everything with what you're buying, eg. cables, warranty, battries. Dont allow the shops to sell you something that should already come in the package.

If you are not Asian, and cannot speak Cantonese, then make sure you project yourself as a well seasoned, well traveled tourist/shopper who is aware of all the tricks.

There is also the warranty - make sure the camera you buy has a world wide Warranty. Give yourself plenty of time to do your shopping/looking/price research. It took me 15 minutes to confirm the base price of my mobile phone to $5 plus/minus.

[Storm]

I have a Panasonic Lumix DMC-LZ7K...its 7.2MP and 6x optical zoom...I think its a good camera. I am neither a pro nor an avid photographer although I do like to take photos...I am also thinking of moving up the camera ladder...

I will be travelling to a tiger reserve later this year and (if I am lucky ) I want to make sure I get good photos of those sneaky tigers and others :)

So any suggestions? Not sure I need a SLR or something but how about those compact "pretenders"as Daniel said?
Which one is the best out of those ones....What I need is a good zoom, anti shake , SD compatible... etc but not bothered by all other fancy bits n pieces.

[Valve Bounce]

I have a Panasonic Lumix DMC-LZ7K...its 7.2MP and 6x optical zoom...I think its a good camera. I am neither a pro nor an avid photographer although I do like to take photos...I am also thinking of moving up the camera ladder...

I will be travelling to a tiger reserve later this year and (if I am lucky ) I want to make sure I get good photos of those sneaky tigers and others :)

So any suggestions? Not sure I need a SLR or something but how about those compact "pretenders"as Daniel said?
Which one is the best out of those ones....What I need is a good zoom, anti shake , SD compatible... etc but not bothered by all other fancy bits n pieces.

It all depends on the quality of photos you want and if you want to enlarge them. If you want a really good close-up shot, then an SLR with a telephoto is the best.

Also, don't forget to bring Imodium.

[GridGirl]

For Tigers it really depends on how close to them you are. We went to Longleat Safari park last week and were using a Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L for aninals in the reserves but for animas which you could get close too we would use a Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 Image Stabilized USM.

Buying camera equipment can become a seriously expensive hobbie....stop before you even begin. :p

[rah]

For Tigers it really depends on how close to them you are. We went to Longleat Safari park last week and were using a Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L for aninals in the reserves but for animas which you could get close too we would use a Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 Image Stabilized USM.

Buying camera equipment can become a seriously expensive hobbie....stop before you even begin. :p

I'd love a 70-200L. Any one would do. But I think if I get the cash I will probably go for the 100-400L. Got the 17-85 as well.

[ioan]

I personally would go for a Camera brand as well. Sony's are probably fine but you're buying a camera and not a TV :) No offence 71minus2 :p

honestly this was a pretty low remark.

Sony bought Minolta's photo department (and all their know how with it) a few years ago and.

For the price you pay no Cannon or Nikkon can beat the Sony Alphas (A-100, A-200 etc).

[Daniel]

honestly this was a pretty low remark.

Sony bought Minolta's photo department (and all their know how with it) a few years ago and.

For the price you pay no Cannon or Nikkon can beat the Sony Alphas (A-100, A-200 etc).
Would you buy a Nikon TV or Nikon MP3 player? :)

Minolta was always a very average brand when it came to cameras.

[ioan]

Minolta was always a very average brand when it came to cameras.

No kidding. How many Minoltas did you use?

How many digital cameras had image stabilization systems (real ones, not the software ones) at the time the Minolta 5D and 7D came out?!

As for comments about Sony producing good TV but not cameras, they are also producing most of the CCD's used in the Nikon and Canon cameras.

[wacked]

No kidding. How many Minoltas did you use?

How many digital cameras had image stabilization systems (real ones, not the software ones) at the time the Minolta 5D and 7D came out?!

As for comments about Sony producing good TV but not cameras, they are also producing most of the CCD's used in the Nikon and Canon cameras.

hey, well i have used the Minolta's and also a lot of sony camera's the sony SLR's and are not so impressive as the Canon and Nikon, image stabilisation just reduces the use of a tripod, does not make the camera better.. and u do want to consider Image Stabilisation, the Canon's have 6x to 12x zoom camera's with optical image stabilisation which is far better than the sony's.. Im using a Canon A710 IS right now..

and yeah, sony is making some of the CCD's for Nikon only.. not for Canon..
the body of the Sony SLR's are not as good as the Nikon or Canon, Nikon is still the best in that..

sony has some good regular pocket digital camera's, but where the SLR's are concerned, not a patch on the Nikon's or Canon's.. and nowadays some of the new Olympus SLR's are real good..

[wacked]

Nice, As Daniel said, Canon or Nikon are both great. I have a 40d and love it. If you can get a body only and a better lense, instead of a kit. If you want any suggestions on lenses let me know.

hey rah, what suggestions on lenses, for now actually budgeted on the kit lens, a polarised filter and yeah a nice lowepro tavel bag and maybe a 2GB ultra fast memory card..

well i am open to some suggestions ont he lenses though.. can consider the cost..

[wacked]

I have a Panasonic Lumix DMC-LZ7K...its 7.2MP and 6x optical zoom...I think its a good camera. I am neither a pro nor an avid photographer although I do like to take photos...I am also thinking of moving up the camera ladder...

I will be travelling to a tiger reserve later this year and (if I am lucky ) I want to make sure I get good photos of those sneaky tigers and others :)

So any suggestions? Not sure I need a SLR or something but how about those compact "pretenders"as Daniel said?
Which one is the best out of those ones....What I need is a good zoom, anti shake , SD compatible... etc but not bothered by all other fancy bits n pieces.

hey storm if you dont want to go for a SLR yet, Canon has some nice options, check out the S5 IS, its a 8.2 MP camera with a 12x optical zoom, or check out the SX100 IS, thats with a 10x zoom though a little cheaper..

so which tiger reserve are you planning to go to.. u still have my number?, lets catch up sometime.. can give you an idea about a few camera's..

[ioan]

hey, well i have used the Minolta's and also a lot of sony camera's the sony SLR's and are not so impressive as the Canon and Nikon, image stabilisation just reduces the use of a tripod, does not make the camera better.. and u do want to consider Image Stabilisation, the Canon's have 6x to 12x zoom camera's with optical image stabilisation which is far better than the sony's.. Im using a Canon A710 IS right now..

and yeah, sony is making some of the CCD's for Nikon only.. not for Canon..
the body of the Sony SLR's are not as good as the Nikon or Canon, Nikon is still the best in that..

sony has some good regular pocket digital camera's, but where the SLR's are concerned, not a patch on the Nikon's or Canon's.. and nowadays some of the new Olympus SLR's are real good..


Minolta previously and Sony now do have the image stabilizer built in the case while Canon and Nikkon need very expensive lenses with optical stabilization.

So the Sony SLRs come with the stabilizator no mater the lenses you use. For the Nikkon and Canon you'll have to buy lenses that have stabilizers, for each and every different lens.

From my POV the Sony is cheaper and more practical than the other two.

As for the Olympus, let's forget it, they are merely trying to catch up with the big guys.

[BDunnell]

I'm a Canon man, using an EOS 20D and 40D for work, and even though I don't have one myself I've heard good things about the 450D.

To be honest, image stabilisation isn't the be-all and end-all. I'm more than satisfied with my results with both Canons without image stabilisation on either camera body or any of my lenses, and this while shooting fast-moving aircraft quite a bit of the time.

Despite my Canon allegiance, though, I think it's wrong to be too hard on Minolta/Sony products. Friends use them for the same work as I do and get excellent results with them. Each to their own.

[Storm]

hey storm if you dont want to go for a SLR yet, Canon has some nice options, check out the S5 IS, its a 8.2 MP camera with a 12x optical zoom, or check out the SX100 IS, thats with a 10x zoom though a little cheaper..

so which tiger reserve are you planning to go to.. u still have my number?, lets catch up sometime.. can give you an idea about a few camera's..

I do have your number if you haven't changed it in the last couple of years?
Anyways I will PM you my new # as well..yeah lets catch up sometime

btw, mostly going to Kanha in November..

[Daniel]

I'm a Canon man, using an EOS 20D and 40D for work, and even though I don't have one myself I've heard good things about the 450D.

To be honest, image stabilisation isn't the be-all and end-all. I'm more than satisfied with my results with both Canons without image stabilisation on either camera body or any of my lenses, and this while shooting fast-moving aircraft quite a bit of the time.

I've never really seen the point of IS either. I prefer knowing that it was my superior skill that got me a good shot :) If that means getting less good shots then I'm not all that bothered :) To be honest I think image stabilisation is one of the least important things a camera can do. White balance on DSLR's can be pretty bad sometimes. I think noise, balance, how good the autofocus is and how fast it is is more important than IS.

I'm sure Sony/Minolta cameras are probably fine but why bother? Most shops mainly stop Nikon and Canon lenses and Nikon's and Canon's are just better anyway :) At Finland last year our little group had more digital SLR's than you could shake a stick at. All Nikon's and Canon's aside from J4mie's Finepix which is a Nikon mount camera anyway. Most professionals won't use anything else :)

One of my favourite pics
http://members.iinet.net.au/~fenix1983/Files/AtkinsonSmaller.JPG
Same car, very similar location about 2 years later and in my opinion the camera has warmed things up too much. A better camera would have gotten both of the pictures a bit closer in regards to warmth.
http://members.iinet.net.au/~fenix1983/pics/DSC_4725.JPG

P.S BDunnell. Have you got any examples of your work?

[ioan]

I'm sure Sony/Minolta cameras are probably fine but why bother?

You're right, why bother trying them out as long as you can rubbish them even without having an idea about them. :\


Most shops mainly stop Nikon and Canon lenses and Nikon's and Canon's are just better anyway :)

That's because these lenses are way more expensive and thus they make more money on every sold lenses.
Why is that they are more expensive?! Because unlike Minolta/Sony lenses the Nikon for example need build in AF motor and IS. Minolta?Sony cameras at all levels do have this features incorporated and thus you can use with these cameras any Minolta/Sony lenses produced after 1985.

This in my opinion is the biggest advantage Minolta/Sony has over the others.
But there are plenty of other features that make their cameras more user friendly over the rest of the market.

[BDunnell]

To be honest I think image stabilisation is one of the least important things a camera can do. White balance on DSLR's can be pretty bad sometimes. I think noise, balance, how good the autofocus is and how fast it is is more important than IS.

And how good the photographer is, naturally.



P.S BDunnell. Have you got any examples of your work?

Not online, and I don't have a Photobucket account or similar. Sorry.

[BDunnell]

That's because these lenses are way more expensive and thus they make more money on every sold lenses.
Why is that they are more expensive?! Because unlike Minolta/Sony lenses the Nikon for example need build in AF motor and IS. Minolta?Sony cameras at all levels do have this features incorporated and thus you can use with these cameras any Minolta/Sony lenses produced after 1985.

I use the Sigma 170-500AF as my biggest lens, being unable to afford anything large from Canon's range (and not liking the fact that their longest zoom lens with image stabilisation doesn't technically allow you to autofocus on the EOS 40D), and have never had any problems with this combination.

[L5->R5/CR]

No kidding. How many Minoltas did you use?

How many digital cameras had image stabilization systems (real ones, not the software ones) at the time the Minolta 5D and 7D came out?!

As for comments about Sony producing good TV but not cameras, they are also producing most of the CCD's used in the Nikon and Canon cameras.


All of Canon's SLRs utilize Canon engineered and designed CMOS sensors (Sony does make some CMOS sensors but Canon makes their own).

What is interesting is that Sony uses Nikon designed and built optics to make their image sensors, which is partially why they haven't yet been able to reproduce the micro lens sizes and pixel density that Canon is starting to produce.





Minolta previously and Sony now do have the image stabilizer built in the case while Canon and Nikkon need very expensive lenses with optical stabilization.

And the stabilization system in Nikon and Canon is more advanced, more effective, and more usable. You cannot see the correction through the viewfinder for instance with a Sony.



So the Sony SLRs come with the stabilizer no mater the lenses you use. For the Nikkon and Canon you'll have to buy lenses that have stabilizers, for each and every different lens.

In lens stabilization is more effective. It not only provides a correction factor that can be seen through the viewfinder but it makes the image corrections before the full telephoto effect of the lens happens allowing it to be more effective.


From my POV the Sony is cheaper and more practical than the other two.

As for the Olympus, let's forget it, they are merely trying to catch up with the big guys.


Sony, like Olympus, Pentax, Samsung, Sigma, and Panasonic all make fairly decent SLRs. The fact is however, that these manufacturers are playing for just 8% of the overall digital SLR market. They typically will have to bring their prices down to have a better on paper camera per dollar than Canon or Nikon.

This would offer great opportunities for the consumer to get an excellent deal if not for the accessory support issues. None of the above manufacturers offer many entry level or intermediate level lenses, and Olympus and Sony's top of the line lenses are far more expensive than Canon or Nikon (10-25% more). This is all good and well for the people that will never expand their kit beyond a lens or two, but it does severely limit your options down the line. Further consider the fact that at least Sony and Panasonic have to utilize purchased brand names to make their lenses appear to be desirable (Sony provided a huge infusion of cash to Carl Zeis, however, there are only three true Zeis lenses for the Alphas, despite branding to the contrary, and Panasonic provided a huge infusion of cash to Leica to utilize Leica's brand name, eventhough Leica just "sign offs" on Panasonic lens design).

This is all before we get into flash photography and system support (which sad to say Nikon leaves Canon in the dust on).

The Sony's are not bad cameras in the slightest. The problem however, is that you by and large will be left to what you get at the initial purchase, and if you do try to expand into higher grade equipment later any cost saving (real or perceived) at the onset will leave you spending more in the end.

[rah]

hey rah, what suggestions on lenses, for now actually budgeted on the kit lens, a polarised filter and yeah a nice lowepro tavel bag and maybe a 2GB ultra fast memory card..

well i am open to some suggestions ont he lenses though.. can consider the cost..

What do you want to shoot? What is the kit lens on offer? I would not look at anything below the 17-85 is that I got as a kit lens. But if you can get the 17-55mm f/2.8 IS it is a better lens. You could also look at the 17-40mm f/4L USM for a little less. Apart from those you could look at primes such as 85mm, 50mm or 35mm. Primes will give you the best IQ, but are not as flexible.

[rah]

I use the Sigma 170-500AF as my biggest lens, being unable to afford anything large from Canon's range (and not liking the fact that their longest zoom lens with image stabilisation doesn't technically allow you to autofocus on the EOS 40D), and have never had any problems with this combination.

Lol nice, wish I had a decent tele. The biggest lens I have at the moment is a 100mm macro.

[Pille]

As for the Olympus, let's forget it, they are merely trying to catch up with the big guys.

Well... ummm... I shoot racing with Oly...

[ioan]

And the stabilization system in Nikon and Canon
is more advanced, more effective, and more usable.

And also way more expensive. And you pay it again and again with each new lenses.


You cannot see the correction through the viewfinder for instance with a Sony.

Like if you needed it. Our eyes sensibility does not require IS, the captor however needs it.



In lens stabilization is more effective. It not only provides a correction factor that can be seen through the viewfinder but it makes the image corrections before the full telephoto effect of the lens happens allowing it to be more effective.

Not sure about how the IS makes "the image corrections before the full telephoto effect of the lens happens allowing it to be more effective" given that it has to work continuously until the picture is taken.


This would offer great opportunities for the consumer to get an excellent deal if not for the accessory support issues. None of the above manufacturers offer many entry level or intermediate level lenses, and Olympus and Sony's top of the line lenses are far more expensive than Canon or Nikon (10-25% more). This is all good and well for the people that will never expand their kit beyond a lens or two, but it does severely limit your options down the line. Further consider the fact that at least Sony and Panasonic have to utilize purchased brand names to make their lenses appear to be desirable (Sony provided a huge infusion of cash to Carl Zeis, however, there are only three true Zeis lenses for the Alphas, despite branding to the contrary, and Panasonic provided a huge infusion of cash to Leica to utilize Leica's brand name, eventhough Leica just "sign offs" on Panasonic lens design).

As I said you can use any post 1985 Minolta lenses on a Sony DSLR camera, and they are not expensive at all (contrary to what you say) as they don't need inbuilt AF motor (for some Nikon cameras do not come with a built in one anymore) and IS.




The Sony's are not bad cameras in the slightest. The problem however, is that you by and large will be left to what you get at the initial purchase, and if you do try to expand into higher grade equipment later any cost saving (real or perceived) at the onset will leave you spending more in the end.

I do not agree with that, for the reasons I already explained.

Anyway, back to the initial post in this thread.
Everyone should consider trying several cameras before deciding which one they buy, simply because we all use them in our own way.

Cheers

[wacked]

I do have your number if you haven't changed it in the last couple of years?
Anyways I will PM you my new # as well..yeah lets catch up sometime

btw, mostly going to Kanha in November..

cool.. yeah my number has been same for the last 7 years.. im working on senapati bapat road now.. so give me a call anytime when ur there.. im there all day..

[wacked]

thanks for all the input guys.. i have used a number of camera's, and yeah quite a few SLR's too.. i have used the nikon's, sony's, canon's and yeah also a oly and a fuji, i personally prefer the canon's out of all of them, nikon second..
im not saying the other camera's are bad.. i just prefer a canon and really not looking at image stabilisation as BDunnell said its not the be-all and end-all , i have decided on the camera after comparing a lot of camera's and yeah talking to a few people using it, a EOS 450D, just need to figure out 2 things, should i buy the kit lens or any other and if any other how much it would cost compared to the kit lens, and yeah since i have the option right now.. thailand, singapore or back in India, where would it be the cheapest to get it..

[ioan]

Kit lenses usually cover the basic use of a camera and are cheaper if bought in a kit with the camera than bought separately (unless you would buy them second hand).

[L5->R5/CR]

Like if you needed it. Our eyes sensibility does not require IS, the captor however needs it.


Perhaps if you used one you would understand what I am talking about




Not sure about how the IS makes "the image corrections before the full telephoto effect of the lens happens allowing it to be more effective" given that it has to work continuously until the picture is taken.

This is a simple question of lens optics and physics. If you are moving elements within the lens before the final elements you are manipulating the image before the full telephoto effect of the optics has happened. If you are only able to make corrections after the full optical effect of the lens then you are dealing with not just the basic vibrations but the impact that the telephoto effect has. If this doesn't make sense to you perhaps you should look more into how the in lens based systems work.





As I said you can use any post 1985 Minolta lenses on a Sony DSLR camera, and they are not expensive at all (contrary to what you say) as they don't need inbuilt AF motor (for some Nikon cameras do not come with a built in one anymore) and IS.

I never stated that you couldn't use old lenses. You most certainly can use your old glass. However, if you want to address my issue, that being of new lenses, and especially higher grade lenses your options are much more limited. It is a nice tactic to deflect the point but it doesn't change my point. New lenses, beyond the most basic entry level glass, is more expensive (if the lenses are even available) with most of the smaller manufacturers. Start looking into flash systems and you options become almost non-existent.





I do not agree with that, for the reasons I already explained.

It is fine if you want to use older lenses to try to save a couple of bucks. The problem with the old equipment compatability argument is the fact that many people would prefer the more responsive, smoother, and faster focusing lenses of today (besides the fact that the mid range and above Pentax cameras will work with any Pentax lens, making a stronger argument, or that any Canon EOS lens can be used).

Obviously you love your Alpha, and that is great!

Don't delude others into following you down that path. Buying a Sony, Olympus, Pentax, Panasonic, or Sigma severely limits you down the road. For people that know themselves well enough to know they aren't going to want to pursue higher grade lenses that have things like internal focus, fixed apertures, or ultra sharp low dispersion glass, those manufacturers represent a better investment as you will get more features for your dollar (very important and subtle difference between features and performance). Similarly if you have SLR equipment of moderate to good quality you will greatly maximize your money spent by being able to utilize that equipment.

Whatever your combative response may end up being there are very clear reasons why Canon and Nikon share over 91% of the overall digital SLR market, and it isn't just brand name, its value.

Similarly, don't come back at me with some silly argument about how great the salesperson said your Sony was when you bought it. No other SLR manufacturer attempts to bribe sales people to sell their products more aggressively than Sony does and there is a reason for it.

[wacked]

hey L5 what camera do you use?.. and suggestions on a alternative on a kit lens on a new cam.. Canon..

[GridGirl]

Rah has mentioned it also but I really can't recommend highly enough the 17-85mm. Its firmly become our 'everyday' lense and we wouldn't be without it these days.

http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/EF_Lenses/Zoom_Lenses/EF_1785mm_f45IS_USM/index.asp

One of Canon's cheapest lenses which cost about £60 in the UK is also good for indoor use even if it is fixed rather than zoom.

http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/EF_Lenses/Fixed_Focal_Length/EF_50mm_f18II/index.asp

[wacked]

well will consider other lenses, thats one option, or my favourite one.. just get the kit lens for now and then share lenses with my friends, i have 2 of them who are canon users and they have a good range, so yeah share with them and buy a lens later when i have some more money..

[rah]

well will consider other lenses, thats one option, or my favourite one.. just get the kit lens for now and then share lenses with my friends, i have 2 of them who are canon users and they have a good range, so yeah share with them and buy a lens later when i have some more money..

Thats fair enough, thats what I did. Just let us know what the kit lens is so we can make a judgment. You can share lenses between mates, but your favourites you will need all the time. I only have the 17-85is and a 100mm macro and that is all I need at the moment. The 100mm macro is a fairly specialised lens and I could borrow my mates one, but I got my own because that is the photography I enjoy the most. If you had a look at my flickr page you would see why. Borrowing lenses is only good for the stuff you don't do all the time.

[L5->R5/CR]

hey L5 what camera do you use?.. and suggestions on a alternative on a kit lens on a new cam.. Canon..

Various different Canon's

20d, 40d, 1dIII paired with the 16-35, 24-70, 70-200 2.8 non-IS, and ocassionally the 17-55 2.8......

In terms of the focal range? The 17-85 is a great range.

The problem with the lens? Canon's EF-S lenses are quickly developing a very bad reputation for quality of construction. This is mainly due to the basic case of the lens being well made but the seals at the front optic and at the body of the camera aren't up to par (when you zoom in dusty conditions the lens acts like a vacuum sucking dust inside the lens at a greater rate then most of their other lenses). I've seen this happen to about 20 different lenses so far, so it is not exactly an isolated problem limited to just one type (see more 17-85s since there are more out there but seen it with plenty of 17-55s as well).

On the XSI however, I would probably look into the Tamron 17-50 2.8 (haven't had a chance to play with that one much but on paper it is a real solid lens) and then the canon 24-105, or 28-135, 70-300 IS or the 70-200 f4 non-IS. All of those lenses should be nice and sharp, have smooth and responsive AF, and have solid build quality to last well beyond a couple lifetimes for the body they are paired with.

[AJP]

Hi everybody.. so what camera's do you'll use, anyone got any suggestions of an SLR..


well my main question is that i will be travelling to Thailand and then Singapore.. anyone got an idea.. where would be a better and yeah cheaper place to buy a camera?

First point i'll make is about Singapore.
I just visited singapore last weekend and went to the main areas to look for my new lens which I was hoping to pick up cheaper than what I could get here in Australia. I wanted to buy the new Canon 50mm 1.2L such an amazing new lens. I actually found that after all the bargaining and hustling, which is quite hard to do in Singapore, I still could not get them to a price lower than what I can buy for in Australia with a local warranty. So, i'm not sure Singapore is the place to go. I have always wanted to try out Hong Kong and of course Japan.

But, if you do manage to find some good deals in Singapore, these are two places you must go for digital goods. They are the two main shopping areas in singapore for this type of shopping. Leave the wife or girlfriend behind as she will be totally bored.. :)

Go to Sim Lim Square. 1 Rochor Canal Road. The Closest Train line is Little India(NE7)

Then got to Funan Digitalife Mall which is in between 109 North Bridge Road and Hill Street. Closest train station is Clarke Quay (NE5)

make sure you compare prices between the two centres and then do your shopping and bargain hunting.

Good luck.

[rah]

One thing to consider, as far as I know, Canon offer world wide warranty on their lenses, but only local warranty on their bodies. Check with your local canon office before you buy overseas to make sure.

[AJP]

I don't have an SLR but got a Fujifilm S5700 which is a really compact little thing that I'm quite happy with. The best thing about it is how compact it is so that I can just hold it in one hand and not really have a problem carrying it. the 10x optical zoom is fairly good too.

This pic was taken using full zoom and isn't too bad
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3095/2587584865_b5c9cfbb63.jpg

It's also not bad at capturing moving images (this photo was taken the first time I used the camera and I'm definately no photographer)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2144/2287102700_e71d45e1ca.jpg

If you are a really serious photographer then I'm not the man for advice but for the motorsport snapshots that I take then this will be fine.

Also the movie mode isn't too bad as shown HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAE6bczEGrs)
Make sure to click the 'watch in high quality' bit

Hi Mr Yeo !

A bit of help if you please,

how did you get the images displayed as you have in your post. what size did you import them at? I have tried but with no success. I would like to post some shots i got from the French GP.
Your help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[Valve Bounce]

Yes please! including formats and so on.

[Valve Bounce]

Assessments of cameras differ greatly, depending who you ask or what you read. Anyone will tell you Zeis lenses are the best in the world, or Nikon, or Canon. Then some professional photographers say the only camera is a Rollei, and so on. Then there are those who will tell you that, unquestionably, the best SLR ever made is the Hasselblad :
http://www.hasselblad.com.au/hb/
and who in their right mind would argue with that?

It all comes down to what you intend to do with the photograph. If you want to have a postcard sized reproduction, then it doesn't really matter what camera you choose, as long as it is not expensive.

If you take pictures of models, cars, aeroplanes (like Mustangs or Spitfires or ME262's, ) and like to enlarge it to wall size, that's where you have to really pick and choose and look at your bankbook.

When I was working for a worldwide Engineering Consulting firm, the professional photographer showed me an enlargement of a picture he took up in the Antarctic with pocket camera: Minolta 70w, and it was perfect in sharpness and colour quality. I bought one for my wife to use, and we had no problems with it on out ski holiday. I still have a Minolta SLR with a 300mm Zoom which takes excellent photos. So, to say the Minolta is average is displaying either lack of knowledge, poor judgment or simply a bias against this brand.

I would make one suggestion to anyone here, including wacked: bring along a mobile phone with a reasonable megapixel for that "OMIGOD! I have no time to fish out my SLR with it's telephoto" shot.

So yeah!! you have to decide how much time you will have to fish out your camera, aim, and shoot.

One last word: my son-in-law had one of those very expensive digital SLR cameras, and asked me to take pics of the christening of our grandchildren (twins). There was a helluva delay between my pressing the button and the activation of the shutter, and many of the shots just did not come out because of movements of the children when the water is poured onto their foreheads.

Then of course, you might want to take action shots of a Cheetah running; what is the best camera for that? Well!! I haven't got a bloody clue now with digitals. I know my 35mm Minolta would be excellent for such action shots, but digitals are totally beyond my knowledge.

I would say:"Ask AJP" because the guy is a professional photographer who takes pics of the cars at the GP's.

[rah]

Hi Mr Yeo !

A bit of help if you please,

how did you get the images displayed as you have in your post. what size did you import them at? I have tried but with no success. I would like to post some shots i got from the French GP.
Your help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Best to size them around 800x600 or smaller and host them on photobucket. Then copy the link. ie:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y98/scottras/Butterflysml.jpg

[L5->R5/CR]

When I was working for a worldwide Engineering Consulting firm, the professional photographer showed me an enlargement of a picture he took up in the Antarctic with pocket camera: Minolta 70w, and it was perfect in sharpness and colour quality. I bought one for my wife to use, and we had no problems with it on out ski holiday. I still have a Minolta SLR with a 300mm Zoom which takes excellent photos. So, to say the Minolta is average is displaying either lack of knowledge, poor judgment or simply a bias against this brand.



I love this argument. "This one professional, took these incredible pictures with XXX camera made by YYYY. Obviously it is good enough and I don't need more camera then that."


Any camera, in the right circumstances, can take a perfect image. The problem? Perfect shoot opportunities hardly ever come along. A reliable and flexible system with a knowledgable user is the best combination for consistently above average photographs.


If you are camera shopping think long and hard about what you want out of a camera and what you are willing to put into taking photographs. Once you have an idea of what you really want and are willing to commit to do some looking online. Then go and look at some cameras and talk to some sales people. Any sales person worth a damn should be able to go over the pros and cons to every camera (and there are pros and cons to every one, otherwise there wouldn't be any competition as everybody would buy the perfect camera). Don't be afraid to ask what they use, and why they are or aren't recommending their camera, and why they feel what ever camera they reccomend is better than the other cameras.

The more you are willing to commit to the camera and to photography the more you will be rewarded by a more complete and developed system. If you are not interested in really putting a lot of time and effort into it buy based on return per dollar for the initial transaction as it is very unlikely that you will be going to make many more significant transactions down the road.

I've been doing camera sales off and on for the last three years to smooth out my cash flow from my photography. The ultimate reality is is that there are very few cameras that are completely wrong for any one person. The best cameras are the ones that complement the interests and short and long terms goals of the purchase (which is why using old lenses is good for some people while buying into systems with very little room to expand in in the future can be bad for others).

Just don't be fooled into buying something you aren't. There are some premium names like Leica and Zeis that are being thrown around a lot by some manufacturers. That doesn't mean that you are getting what you are lead to believe. Careful research into claims such as those can prevent tears down the road...

[Valve Bounce]

This may hold true for someone living in the USA and knows of a reliable Camera shop with truthful sales persons.
However, as wacked is talking about buying a camera in either Thailand or Singapore, this avenue of information gathering may not be the best.

In fact, for anyone going to Hong Kong, I would say without any fear of contradiction that the last person to ask would be a salesperson.

[Pille]

Yes, both Nikon and Canon are good choises for action photography. Before you decide to buy though, go down to the store and try the cameras out in your own hand, to see how they feel and suit you. For Canon the 70-200 F4 is a great price/value long zoom.

It takes time to learn how to use a SLR camera well, but when you know it, the results are miles better than any p&s camera can give you. Digital "film" is cheap, so don't be afraid to play and experiment.

Two shots (with Oly) from the weekend:

http://recce.pri.ee/album121/viruralli491.jpg

http://recce.pri.ee/album122/ringrada344.jpg

[leopard]

Having watched in more detail this morning, once one day my saving is up an RX would be the first choice.

I think Nikon is great if buying brand, brands like Canon and Fuji have their quality is not significantly different. No one has mentioned that Olympus is also the pioneer of digicam.

[AJP]

so if i copy a link from photo bucket......drum roll please..

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d119/ajesser/French%20GP/WEBBER_MAGNY_WEB.jpg?t=1214992802

does it work???

[AJP]

Nope...

hmmmm

[Storm]

AJP you need to put it in the [IMG src= ] tags ...err I think

[DonJippo]

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d119/ajesser/French%20GP/WEBBER_MAGNY_WEB.jpg?t=1214992802

[DonJippo]

so if i copy a link from photo bucket......drum roll please..

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d119/ajesser/French%20GP/WEBBER_MAGNY_WEB.jpg?t=1214992802

does it work???

Try to resize the image, maybe it helps.

[Valve Bounce]

so if i copy a link from photo bucket......drum roll please..

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d119/ajesser/French%20GP/WEBBER_MAGNY_WEB.jpg?t=1214992802

does it work???

Works for me, but I think, as storm puts it, it needs resizing. When you guys have it sorted, let me in on the secret and I'll post a pic of Benny here.

[L5->R5/CR]

This may hold true for someone living in the USA and knows of a reliable Camera shop with truthful sales persons.
However, as wacked is talking about buying a camera in either Thailand or Singapore, this avenue of information gathering may not be the best.

In fact, for anyone going to Hong Kong, I would say without any fear of contradiction that the last person to ask would be a salesperson.


Presumably wacked also has the option of doing more hands on research before going to Thailand or Hong Kong? Normally you can find stores relative to your home market to do some hands on research at.

Although a great deal of Europeans on holiday are buying cameras in the US right now...

[wacked]

Presumably wacked also has the option of doing more hands on research before going to Thailand or Hong Kong? Normally you can find stores relative to your home market to do some hands on research at.

Although a great deal of Europeans on holiday are buying cameras in the US right now...



well US is another option there, im not really going there, but yeah my cousin can get it for in like sometime in august..

well i have used a few cameras i have used the Nikon D40, D40x, D70, D200 and the D300.. Canon EOS 350D, 400D and the 5D, havent found anybody with the 450D so far.. spoken to a friend using it in US though..
I have used one of the Sony's the A100
used the Oly, dont know the model numbers though and forget which fuji i used
used a bunch of the normal digi cams and yeah have a A710 IS of my own..
have used all these camera for onlylike 2-3 days.. some of them even a few hours only.. as they were not mine and not many people like parting away from their SLR's for too long..

so yeah have checked out a few cams and have been doing a little research on the net.. and yeah then narrowed it to a 450D


I would make one suggestion to anyone here, including wacked: bring along a mobile phone with a reasonable megapixel for that "OMIGOD! I have no time to fish out my SLR with it's telephoto" shot.

oh yeah valve, i have a Nokia N95 so has a decent 5 megapixel.. also have my regular digi cam with a 6x optical zoom.. and 7.2 MP..

[ioan]

Although a great deal of Europeans on holiday are buying cameras in the US right now...

Perfectly normal, given that 1 Euro = 1.6 USD! :D

[Mark]

It is a general rule that you should not trust salesmen and do your own research before buying. No matter what country you are in. A salesman will just be interested in meeting his targets.

[Daniel]

It is a general rule that you should not trust salesmen and do your own research before buying. No matter what country you are in. A salesman will just be interested in meeting his targets.
In SE Asia the salesmen are only happy to lie to you about international warranty though. Learnt that from my time working for a Sony service agent :mark:

[rah]

so if i copy a link from photo bucket......drum roll please..

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d119/ajesser/French%20GP/WEBBER_MAGNY_WEB.jpg?t=1214992802

does it work???

When you look at the photbucket page, below the pics has a list of codes. Just copy the bottom one with the [IMG] next to it. Then paste here. That way your image will work.

[Valve Bounce]

well US is another option there, im not really going there, but yeah my cousin can get it for in like sometime in august..

well i have used a few cameras i have used the Nikon D40, D40x, D70, D200 and the D300.. Canon EOS 350D, 400D and the 5D, havent found anybody with the 450D so far.. spoken to a friend using it in US though..
I have used one of the Sony's the A100
used the Oly, dont know the model numbers though and forget which fuji i used
used a bunch of the normal digi cams and yeah have a A710 IS of my own..
have used all these camera for onlylike 2-3 days.. some of them even a few hours only.. as they were not mine and not many people like parting away from their SLR's for too long..

so yeah have checked out a few cams and have been doing a little research on the net.. and yeah then narrowed it to a 450D



oh yeah valve, i have a Nokia N95 so has a decent 5 megapixel.. also have my regular digi cam with a 6x optical zoom.. and 7.2 MP..

Well, you've checked out the rest, now it's time to go for the [b]Best]/b] :http://www.hasselbladusa.com/promotions/h3dii.aspx

and here's more: http://www.hasselblad.com/products/h-system/h3d.aspx

[AJP]

well US is another option there, im not really going there, but yeah my cousin can get it for in like sometime in august..


Prices are the same in the States as they are in Singapore and Australia.
So i chose not to buy in New York due to the extra tax that would have made it even more expensive. I visited a store called B&H which I was very excited about, only to be extremely disappointed. The service was absolutely awful, probably the worst I have ever encountered. There so called cheap prices were rubbish once compared to other overseas markets. Although some of there products were very cheap, but nothing I was after. I'm still thinking Japan and Hong Kong will be the best places.

[AJP]

Well, you've checked out the rest, now it's time to go for the [b]Best]/b] :http://www.hasselbladusa.com/promotions/h3dii.aspx

and here's more: http://www.hasselblad.com/products/h-system/h3d.aspx

If only the blads were affordable...
Did you know that in Japan, Fuji have rebranded a lot of the hasselblads products as there own, and are selling them for almost half price...!!! :)
a mate of mine bought the HII body, i think a 30 odd megapixel back and two lenses for only 8 or 9 grand..I so want to go to Japan...

[AJP]

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d119/ajesser/ShimodaII.jpg

[AJP]

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d119/ajesser/French%20GP/WEBBER_MAGNY_WEB.jpg
Mark Webber
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d119/ajesser/French%20GP/KIMI_MAGNY_WEB.jpg
Kimi Raikkonen and his blown out exhaust
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d119/ajesser/French%20GP/HAMILTON_MAGNY_2_WEB.jpg
Lewis Hamilton
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d119/ajesser/French%20GP/PODIUM_MAGNY_WEB.jpg
The podium celebrations.

[AJP]

I only had my 100mm lens with me so I had great difficulty getting the shots I wanted. In Australia you are not allowed to take anything more than a 200mm lens into a GP, I was told it was the same in France. much to my amazement, seeing regular Joe's walking around and sitting in the stands with there 300mm and 400mm lens and monopods, I just about wanted to cry...I could have taken a mates 400mm with and my 1.4 converter and got some really cool shots. but anyway, i'm happy that I was just there to watch the race. Apart from the 6.5 hour drive back to Paris, it was a great day.

Another point that is important to a buyer of a digital SLR. These images were shot using a canon 5D (my everyday camera) and have been heavily cropped in. As I said I only had a 100mm lens with me. The better Body you buy along with lenses, will enable you to do really big crops and enlargements without losing image quality. I had the elements against me on this day, it was terribly overcast with low light, yet the images still stood up reasonably well..

for some reason the shot of Kimi look really bad, i'll have to check that I resized it properly..

[AJP]

Thanks for the tips on posting images guys... :)

[Valve Bounce]

..........I can definitely advise anyone to beware. My sister-in-law came and I begged her NOT to go to Tsim Sha Tsui to buy her camera. She promptly went there via MTR, and "bought" a camera at the first store she came to. Well, bought is a term I would not use - she paid for the camera only to be told they did not have the camera she wanted in stock, but they would get it in for her. Yeah!! the old Tsim Sha Tsui trick. When she wanted to cancel the credit card entry, they refused.

[L5->R5/CR]

It is a general rule that you should not trust salesmen and do your own research before buying. No matter what country you are in. A salesman will just be interested in meeting his targets.

Thats a nice attitude about salesmen.

Plenty of sales people that have 0 goals or targets for selling X Y or Z cameras (I have been one at various points in my career in an effort to stabilize my income)...

[Valve Bounce]

Thats a nice attitude about salesmen.

Plenty of sales people that have 0 goals or targets for selling X Y or Z cameras (I have been one at various points in my career in an effort to stabilize my income)...

I would trust you, but I certainly would not trust any salesman after arriving in Singapore, Hong Kong, or Thailand. Would you? :p :

[leopard]

I would trust you, but I certainly would not trust any salesman after arriving in Singapore, Hong Kong, or Thailand. Would you? :p :

They usually come close to you after being informed by salesgirl that you are interested in their product. :)

[Mark]

Thats a nice attitude about salesmen.

Plenty of sales people that have 0 goals or targets for selling X Y or Z cameras (I have been one at various points in my career in an effort to stabilize my income)...

IMO it's a sensible attitude. I am by no means asserting that ALL salesmen are con artists, however, if you assume that they are and do your own research and know what you want before you go into the shop, then you can't go wrong!

[leopard]

Thats a nice attitude about salesmen.

Plenty of sales people that have 0 goals or targets for selling X Y or Z cameras (I have been one at various points in my career in an effort to stabilize my income)...
Nice ... camera shouldn't be a problem at all. ;)

[Storm]

How is the Nikon Coolpix P80 ?
What's drawing me to it is the fact that it's going to be much cheaper than a SLR has a 18x zoom and wide angle lens. I am not sure I want to be spending tons of money on dSLRs + lenses and not use them to their full potential due to the learning curve involved..
I am already spending a lot of money on guitars and not using them to their full potential either :s
My usage will always be photography for personal satisfaction and mainly nature, wild-life and such....and of course if I finally get to a rally/F1 race someday :p :

[Mark]

To an extent with most products you have to buy something with a lot of features that you won't use in order to get the ones that you will use. But especailly for cameras you have to think carefully what you are going to do.

For many there is no real choice except an SLR for serious work. Myself I want a camera I can keep in my pocket and forget about until I need to take pictures, but of a good quality (so mobile cameras are out), so a compact camera suits my needs.

[Daniel]

IMO it's a sensible attitude. I am by no means asserting that ALL salesmen are con artists, however, if you assume that they are and do your own research and know what you want before you go into the shop, then you can't go wrong!

I agree. Although I usually buy online I always do my homework first and if I'm going to buy in a shop I usually know more than the salesperson.

[L5->R5/CR]

IMO it's a sensible attitude. I am by no means asserting that ALL salesmen are con artists, however, if you assume that they are and do your own research and know what you want before you go into the shop, then you can't go wrong!

That works until someone has spent 5 hours on Jimmy Bob Dumba**'s website that just loves his ____ which is really a low end to mid range performer (it happens A LOT).

Or until someone spends hours on consumer reports or some silly site (like Steve's digicams in which he loves/recomends cameras that aren't made as well as cameras that I can verifiably say are pieces of crap).

There is a lot of information out there, some good and a lot bad...



How is the Nikon Coolpix P80 ?
What's drawing me to it is the fact that it's going to be much cheaper than a SLR has a 18x zoom and wide angle lens. I am not sure I want to be spending tons of money on dSLRs + lenses and not use them to their full potential due to the learning curve involved..
I am already spending a lot of money on guitars and not using them to their full potential either :s
My usage will always be photography for personal satisfaction and mainly nature, wild-life and such....and of course if I finally get to a rally/F1 race someday :p :



You really have to ask yourself what you want out of the camera before you go this route. The P 80 is a very solid ultra-zoom point and shoot. The problem, is that in making a camera like that you take away a lot of options (ISO range is huge, shutter speed range, small, for instance).

Really sit down and think about what you want to do photo wise. Do you just want a lot of snap shots? Do you want to do long exposure photography/night photography? Do you ever envision yourself shooting in RAW? Do you want more than 2 FPS? Are you going to do a lot of action photography? Is AF accuracy/speed important to you? These types of questions are going to provide a set of answers that will indicate if to meet your desires you need to go digital SLR or not.

[Daniel]

That works until someone has spent 5 hours on Jimmy Bob Dumba**'s website that just loves his ____ which is really a low end to mid range performer (it happens A LOT).

Or until someone spends hours on consumer reports or some silly site (like Steve's digicams in which he loves/recomends cameras that aren't made as well as cameras that I can verifiably say are pieces of crap).

Sadly there are a lot of paid revie... I mean consumer sites out there that do this sort of thing. I find www.DPreview.com (http://www.DPreview.com) a good source for reviews as there are forums there and people have no problems ragging off a bad product. Hopefully in a few years I'll look for a replacement for the D70s I got 3 years ago and get something more along the lines of a D300. Being a snob I'll go to a shop and try the Canon equivalent and decide from that. When I bought my camera I looked at the 300d and it felt really fragile and cheaply made. The D70 felt as solid as you could expect something of the price to feel.

[Valve Bounce]

Sadly there are a lot of paid revie... I mean consumer sites out there that do this sort of thing. I find www.DPreview.com (http://www.DPreview.com) a good source for reviews as there are forums there and people have no problems ragging off a bad product. Hopefully in a few years I'll look for a replacement for the D70s I got 3 years ago and get something more along the lines of a D300. Being a snob I'll go to a shop and try the Canon equivalent and decide from that. When I bought my camera I looked at the 300d and it felt really fragile and cheaply made. The D70 felt as solid as you could expect something of the price to feel.

I have to agree with Daniel here. At least you can check out different websites in the comfort of your own home.

In Asia, especially Hong Kong's Tsim Sha Tsui area, many salespersons are not on salary at all, but on commission only. They lie, and cheat, and if you want to ask for your money back if they don't have the camera in stock that you've just paid for.

Check out google on Sim Lim Centre and the warnings there.

[rah]

I agree. Although I usually buy online I always do my homework first and if I'm going to buy in a shop I usually know more than the salesperson.

Second that. I do this with everything I buy that I can.

[L5->R5/CR]

They lie, and cheat, and if you want to ask for your money back if they don't have the camera in stock that you've just paid for.

I've run into people that have almost been bamboozled by sales people here in the US (saying that the 28-135 canon isn't IS and that the 17-85 is a better built lens for instance).

[L5->R5/CR]

Sadly there are a lot of paid revie... I mean consumer sites out there that do this sort of thing. I find www.DPreview.com (http://www.DPreview.com) a good source for reviews as there are forums there and people have no problems ragging off a bad product. Hopefully in a few years I'll look for a replacement for the D70s I got 3 years ago and get something more along the lines of a D300. Being a snob I'll go to a shop and try the Canon equivalent and decide from that. When I bought my camera I looked at the 300d and it felt really fragile and cheaply made. The D70 felt as solid as you could expect something of the price to feel.



DPreview is good, but they are now also owned by Amazon, so we will see over the coming months how they cope with the change in ownership.

You would be incredibly surprised though at how many people come looking for the XXXX because it was on some crack pot site...

[rah]

http://www.fredmiranda.com is the best for reviews that I have found. I like dpreview as well.

[Daniel]

DPreview is good, but they are now also owned by Amazon, so we will see over the coming months how they cope with the change in ownership.

You would be incredibly surprised though at how many people come looking for the XXXX because it was on some crack pot site...

Well it's been owned by Amazon for over a year now :)

The problem with cameras is that your average Joe might have been using an old film point and shoot or an old digital camera and he buys some cheep brand and because the camera is far far newer it's far better and he gets the impression that brand X is very very good and develops a loyalty to the brand. So then he starts reccomending brand X to all his friends. A similar thing happens with computers. Person is using an old Pentium 2 or 3 and then upgrades to a new PC with a celeron CPU inside and thinks it's the shizzle :mark:

[ioan]

Well it's been owned by Amazon for over a year now :)

The problem with cameras is that your average Joe might have been using an old film point and shoot or an old digital camera and he buys some cheep brand and because the camera is far far newer it's far better and he gets the impression that brand X is very very good and develops a loyalty to the brand. So then he starts reccomending brand X to all his friends. A similar thing happens with computers. Person is using an old Pentium 2 or 3 and then upgrades to a new PC with a celeron CPU inside and thinks it's the shizzle :mark:

Not everyone is a specialists, and even more no one was a specialists right after being born.
Don't discredit anyone's opinion, just because you don't agree with them, especially when you don't know the person at all.

[Daniel]

Second that. I do this with everything I buy that I can.

:up:

Only problem is I get greatly annoyed when salespeople get the specs wrong on things :p Thankfully here in the UK it's a lot easier to shop online than in the UK :)

[Daniel]

Not everyone is a specialists, and even more no one was a specialists right after being born.
Don't discredit anyone's opinion, just because you don't agree with them, especially when you don't know the person at all.
Did you actually read my post? :)

[ioan]

Did you actually read my post? :)

That was the main reason I answered it! ;)

[Daniel]

That was the main reason I answered it! ;)
Perhaps you need to read it again then :)

[Mark]

Thankfully here in the UK it's a lot easier to shop online than in the UK :)

Thankfully yes.. wait.. what?! :p

[Daniel]

Has anyone here been doing any stuff with HDR?

Just been having a discussion (argument) with someone and they think HDR is crap :p

The example below isn't the best example as they've gone way OTT with the building but the sky is sooooooo much better and it gives the photo a bit of mood or at least it would if the subject was a bit more interesting.
http://www.scottkelby.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/hdr.jpg


From the pics I've seen on the net this is one of my favourites. Ordinarily you wouldn't be able to see the inscription on the headstone or if you could the sky would be all washed out.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3128/2632320464_324c8f6b88.jpg?v=0

I bet there will be people who will reject it because it's not your true "take one picture and fiddle a bit around with it" photography but your eyes are far better at seeing than cameras and HDR only does what a camera can't do with one exposure.

Not sure if I'm that in love with some of the uber-dramatic effects you can do with HDR but from an artistic perspective they're excellent.

[Daniel]

:up:

Only problem is I get greatly annoyed when salespeople get the specs wrong on things :p Thankfully here in the UK it's a lot easier to shop online than in the UK :)
Meant to say than in Australia :p

[Valve Bounce]

You look in the window and you see the camera of your dreams at a price that is so low it's unbelievable. You go in, and tell them you want to buy that camera. They tell you they don't have it in stock, even though there's one in the window, but that one is not for sale.

But they tell you that is an old model, and they can sell you a better one, but it will cost you a little more. They then show you last year's model at a considerably higher price. If you insist on the camera in the window, they say that one is not for sale, and you must leave the shop. If you kick up a fuss in front of other customers, they will spit on you, throw calculaters at you, and shove you out the door.

OR

They tell you yes! they can sell you the camera, and you pay with a credit card. After you sign the card, they tell you they don't have the camera in stock but they will send someone to go get one for you. After half an hour you notice none of the salesmen have left the shop and you ask about the camera you paid for. They tell you either the guy is in a traffic jam, or simply they cannot get that camera in HK, but they can sell you another camera.
If you want your money back or the credit card slip back, they will tell you NO!!.. If you insist and make a fuss in front of other customers, they simply shrug and say they cannot do that. You call the police and they don't want to know. Who are you going to complain to if your plane leaves in a couple of days?

I still remember my wife's cousin wanted to do his own shopping in TST for a VCR, (after I had warned him not to go there). It was back in 1984 and infra red remote controls had already been out for more than a couple of years. He was sold an old Phillips VCR after being told it was the only system that worked in Australia, and it had a cable connected remote control. I just kept my mouth shut.

YES!! there was a shop in Causeway Bay where I know the salespersons there and if really pushed, I would take visitors there. But I do all the talking for them, I check the price first before going there, and I make sure they get the worldwide warranty and not the local (Shui Foh) warranty.

I don't live in HK now, and I don't know if there are any shops there with fixed prices.

[Hondo]

Thanks to this thread, as of today I'm the proud, but very confused owner of a Canon EOS Rebel XSi DSLR complete with a EF-S18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS lens. In other words, a Canon 450D. I also bought a 4 gig memory card, an extra battery, a UV filter, camera case, and a EF75-300mm f/4-5.6III lens.

So far I have the card and battery in, the 55mm lens on, and the time and date set without screwing anything up. While I continue to read the manual and explore this high tech picture taker, future super model Sweetie the Wonder Lab has her furry face in a bowl of IAMS and Alpo with a side order of pork chop oblivious to the runway workout she will face in the morning.

One thing that entered the purchase consideration is that there is only one real camera shop around here and you can save some real money because they will rent specialty lenses to you but their rental lenses are Canon or Nikon.

This has been a helpful thread. Any advice on macros?

[ioan]

Any advice on macros?

You won't need one for taking pictures of your cat! :p :

OK, OK, I'm gone now! :D

[BDunnell]

Thanks to this thread, as of today I'm the proud, but very confused owner of a Canon EOS Rebel XSi DSLR complete with a EF-S18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS lens. In other words, a Canon 450D. I also bought a 4 gig memory card, an extra battery, a UV filter, camera case, and a EF75-300mm f/4-5.6III lens.

So far I have the card and battery in, the 55mm lens on, and the time and date set without screwing anything up. While I continue to read the manual and explore this high tech picture taker, future super model Sweetie the Wonder Lab has her furry face in a bowl of IAMS and Alpo with a side order of pork chop oblivious to the runway workout she will face in the morning.

One thing that entered the purchase consideration is that there is only one real camera shop around here and you can save some real money because they will rent specialty lenses to you but their rental lenses are Canon or Nikon.

This has been a helpful thread. Any advice on macros?

Afraid not. I've never used them. Enjoy the new camera, though! Touch wood, I'm still enjoying my new 20D...

[MrJan]

Hi Mr Yeo !

A bit of help if you please,

how did you get the images displayed as you have in your post. what size did you import them at? I have tried but with no success. I would like to post some shots i got from the French GP.
Your help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Sorry haven't read this thread in a while. Those images I already have online on my Flickr account. To get them onto here you need to right click, go to properties and then copy the URL address. Then just paste them inside the little jobbies and it should be hunky dory.

On the other hand you can upload to imageshack.us or photobucket (I use imageshack) and it provides various forms for websites, avatars and so on. Use one that says forums and just copy and paste it. That should already have the [ img ] code thing. Just make sure to resize them or they end up taking half the screen up :D

[AJP]

Has anyone here been doing any stuff with HDR?

Just been having a discussion (argument) with someone and they think HDR is crap :p


what were the arguements of HDR being crap?

http://alexcowley.com/index.html

this website is of a very close friend of mine who was awarded the Canon Australia Landscape Photographer of the year. There is a little bit of HDR going on, but the results speak for themselves really...

I think it is a specific look that will more than likely go out of "Style" , but nevertheless, HDR images are images that are very artistic and thought provoking..if done correctly of course.

[Daniel]

what were the arguements of HDR being crap?

There weren't any legitimate ones IMHO.

[AJP]

There weren't any legitimate ones IMHO.

the old school will always say that digital manipulation is rubbish i guess..
but you are really doing the same techniques that have been used of a very long time..
dodging and burning, adding contrast blah blah...

[wacked]

well guys.. finally got my cam, it is the Canon EOS 450D.. just with the kit lens for now.. and yeah a lowepro carry case.. got it from Thailand, got a good deal witha free 4GB card..

thanks for everyone's inputs on the camera options..

[MrJan]

Thought that I'd bring this thread back up rather than starting a new one. I'm thinking about perhaps getting a slightly better camera. At the moment I just use a little compact Fuji S5700, it's alright for the snaps that I take but I'd quite like something a bit smarter.

Obviously it's one of those 'get what you pay for' things and everyone suggests a Canon/Nikon DSLR with several lenses and all of sudden I've spent more money than I spend on car insurance. I rarely take anything other than motorsport shots or the odd landscape so what sort of kit would I need for that?? I really don't want to spend a large amount though as I'm not a fantastic photographer and don't really have the time to learn how to become one. Is there any point in me bothering to upgrade if I'm looking for a cheap option and won't put the effort in?

[vauxhall corsa]

sony's are the best

[GridGirl]

Would you like to point out why?

[Daniel]

Would you like to point out why?
I think vauxhall corsa is a spammer or just posts random stuff. Have a look at all their posts and you'll see they're only segments of sentences at best :mark:

[vauxhall corsa]

sony are normally the best camera's

[Daniel]

sony are normally the best camera's
Not even close..... in terms of cameras or a complete and correctly punctuated sentence.

[LiamM]

Anyway........

The 5700 is a good camera, my friend has one and I have the 6500fd. If you're looking for something new that's not a SLR have you looked for a Panasonic Lumix DMC-TZ5?

Although its probably more of a sideways step in comparison to what you have now.

[MrJan]

Not even close..... in terms of cameras or a complete and correctly punctuated sentence.

http://k43.pbase.com/o5/42/267742/1/68416045.wGDPMlLK.popcorn.gif

[Storm]

I think vauxhall corsa is a spammer or just posts random stuff. Have a look at all their posts and you'll see they're only segments of sentences at best :mark:
He could be a 3 year old !

[Daniel]

He could be a 3 year old !
Hey don't be rude about children. My 2 month old nephew isn't talking yet but he seems to make more sense than Vauxhall Corsa.

[MrJan]

I never really got much of an answer to this and now it's become a bit more important :D I may have treated my camera quite badly over the weekend and it's now FUBARed so I'm looking for an upgrade. The problem that I've got is I like the idea of a DSLR but not the cost, nor can I work out if I actually need one.

The other problem is that you seem to have a choice of a bridge camera from Fuji at less than £150 or a bridge camera from Canon/Nikon at £300, there is no in between. I also can't tell the difference between different models and different versions of different models. I'm after something that I can use to shoot rallying and some other motorsport, with AF in the body and a suitable lense. What models at the entry level for DSLRs will cover this?

[GridGirl]

I'm not entirely convinced about those bridge camera's. I just dont see why anyone would want to go down that route. Just stick to point and shoot or take the plunge and get a DSLR. :s

One of our family friends (he's in his 70's) recently wanted to upgrade from a point and shoot to a DSLR and opted to buy a Canon 1000D. We ended up buying it for him online and he got a really good deal with some basic lenses and a camera bag for quite a reasonable price.

Do you actually want a new camera? I'm sure you can pick up an older model DSLR on ebay pretty cheap.

We currently have a Canon 30D which is about 5 or 6 years old but is still going strong. I'd say its taken in excess of 50,000 photo's in that time. I'm possibly thinking about upgrading to a 60D or most likely a 7D in the next few months. As we already have an array of lenses the upgrade will be a body only purchase. This is also something that you might want to think about. A first move in to DSLR will most likely have an effect on the lenses and camera's that you might buy in the future. It can get quite expensive if you want to change camera makes and lenses a few years down the line.

[MrJan]

I'm not entirely convinced about those bridge camera's. I just dont see why anyone would want to go down that route.

A bridge camera offers more manual features and a larger zoom than a point & shoot and is half the price of a DSLR. I found my little Fuji S5700 to be a fairly decent stepping stone (as the 'bridge' name would suggest) as it allowed me to dabble with aperture/shutter speed more than I could with my point and shoot. The slightly more fancy S6500 that my brother had was even better.

I don't mind having an older model but I'd rather not have a second hand camera as you never know how it's been treated.

If I'm going for a SLR then it'll be either Canon or Nikon, which I assume tend to be quite good with interchangeable lenses. That said I don't really plan to upgrade, my photography isn't even a hobby just something that I've become accustomed to doing at rallies etc.

[MrJan]

Right, I've spent a bit of time on eBay and trawling around and it hasn't helped at all. The main thing is that the model numbers confuse the hell out of me.

I started by looking at Canons and you've got the 300D, the 350D, 400D and 450D. Fair enough, they started with one and each of the others is a progression...but then there's the 30D, 35d, 40d and 45d. wtf is that all about, are they better or worse or completely different or what? And then to confuse matters even more Nikon use a similar naming system, so you have the D60 and D70 etc etc.

Anywho. Is the 450D really that much of a step up from the 400D? Bearing in mind I'm going from something that's in a range between point & shoot and bridge cameras to an SLR I think that the earlier model might be so mind-blowingly different that I won't care. I haven't been particularly hacked off with the Fuji, sure I fancied something a bit better but it has still served me reasonably well.

[GridGirl]

I still don't understand your point about bridge camera's. We were debating last year whether it would be better to spend about £300 on a really decent point and shoot or to continue using out DSLR and 2kg L series lens when we're hiking up mountains. We borrowed a £300 point and shoot and there were lots of options to manually adjust the photos. I suppose out debate was more of a weight issue but the photos from the point and shoot after manual adjustment came out pretty good but again for this price of the camera we used we could have bought a cheaper DSLR. That woudn't have solved the issue of the 2kg lens though.

I can only talk about my experience of Canon and the basic entry level DSLR camera is the 1000D which from what I've seen is quite a good little camera. The other half's dad has a Canon 300D which must be around 8 years old now but is still working fine. We got a Canon 30D in 2005/2006 which is the next range of camera up. My eldest niece was born in September 2006 and around 6 months later a 400D was purchased by the family for her parents as their photos on the point and shoot weren't that great. The 400D is a later evolution of the 300D yet has more megapixels than our 30D but in terms of features it is not as good. My 30D has now evolved into the 60D which has alot more megapixels and even records HD video (where I have no video recording whatsoever).

In short....its complicated. If your not actually into photography I would say your in terms of Canon you should only be looking at the 1000D or 450D. Go any level higher and the purchase really would be a waste of money from what you've previously said.

[MrJan]

In short....its complicated. If your not actually into photography I would say your in terms of Canon you should only be looking at the 1000D or 450D. Go any level higher and the purchase really would be a waste of money from what you've previously said.

Yeah that's what I thought, the problem is that I couldn't work out what was the higher level camera and what was just the old model :D That's why I'm asking so many basic questions, the way that cameras are numbered and then developed make it very difficult to easily learn what the range actually is.

The little bridge camera I had was £110 and had a 10x optical zoom. At the time that I bought it very few compacts offered that kind of spec. The Canon and Nikon bridges are pointless because they cost so much, but the bottom of the range Fuji (not many others seem to offer them) cameras seem to be a good option for those that are interested in a bit of photography but aren't ready for the whole SLR thing. If you're talking abojut spending £300 then fine the bridge is stupid, but I'm talking about cameras for under £200.

[Mark]

Point and shoots can vary greatly, quite a lot of them have manual adjustment settings these days. Meaning that the only thing you're missing is a decent lens or the ability to change the lenses.

Personally I'm of the point and shoot camp, I actually bought a camera with less manual options on it this time around just because it would be lighter to carry. When I'm on holiday I prefer to get a lot of shots which capture the entire trip, rather than fewer high quality ones. Plus when I'm not taking photos I don't want to know that I have a camera with me!

[Daniel]

You also lose the ability to have decent lenses full stop.

[Mark]

You also lose the ability to have decent lenses full stop.

Well I did say that :p

[GridGirl]

We also have a £40 point and shoot that we bought from Aldi. The pictures and videos of us that we've taken while we've been out mountain biking or doing Go Ape have turned out pretty good but at the same time we wouldn't be bothered if got smashed to pieces (which could be highly likely if I'm mountain biking). I still wouldn't use it for my main holiday photo's but I was quite surprised at how good the pictures turn out for the price.

[fandango]

I'm not sure what "bridge camera" is, but I suspect that's what I have. Last year I bought a Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ38. It's bigger than a point-and-shoot, but not the same size or weight as a full SLR. I wasn't sure what to buy, but this was a good price and I'm really happy with it. I think that unless you know you're going to get into photography fully it's a good option. I'm happy with the photos I take, and I seem to have the camera with me more often than friends who have better cameras but couldn't be bothered lugging the weight around most days. You can't change the lens on it, which explains the price - Panasonic have now brought out more cameras where you can change the lens. If I get more interested in photography I may upgrade in a few yeaars, but I'll have a much better idea then of what I want.

I reckon the most important thing about any camera is how good the lens is. The technical specs don't make much difference unless you really take the whole thing a lot more seriously. At this stage most cameras do the job at a good level. The difference seems to be whether a lens is good or not.

A very simplistic example of this is the camera on my phone. It's better than the one on my previous phone, and they're the same brand, but the old one took better snaps.

[markabilly]

If buying a camera, based on years and years of photography, I would either a very very good point and shoot or a DSLR (or both).

As to a point and shoot, get the very best optical zoom, not a digital zoom. There are a number of them out there---Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ38, another is the Canon PowerShot SX130IS http://www.amazon.com/Canon-PowerShot-SX130IS-Stabilized-3-0-Inch/dp/B003ZSHNG8/ref=sr_1_5?s=photo&ie=UTF8&qid=1298174240&sr=1-5


I also have an older S3 IS which takes awesome photos, better than either of the above, but out of production, with its smaller megapixel sensor (the reason the photos are better IMO)

However, do not be taken in by the amount of megapixels which is all the latest rage......various reasons why:

1. a 4 megapixel camera can take awesome photos that blow up to 8 x 10 or larger, right out of the camera.
2. No matter how many megapixels you have, the computer screen will down rez the photo to fit the screen and a 4 megapixel will fill it up as well or better than 12 or 15.....
3. all 4 x 6 photos printers will print at the same resolution of the 4 megapixel ( and down rez the 12 megapixel to a 4 megapixel)
4. The overall size of the sensor plate has not increased, it has just more pixels packed in, which leads to digital noise issues, which the camera must process out of the photo to avoid murky grainy looking photos.*

*35mm size sensor plate with 15 megapixels is about the largest size that one does not to deal with all the additional digital noise issues....the point and shoot and even the DSLR cameras often have the smaller sensor plates, have this problem that relates to physics involving photons and how they interact with pixels......unfortunately, becuase of sales pitch, finding small megapiex cameras of 4 to 6 megapixels is virtually impossible now, unless one goes used

as to DSLR, go cheapest out there and spend money on f2.8 lenses, even used lens, which are often a bargain. Someone mentioned a D30. No rreal need to go better.....and spen money on the best lens. Unlike the camera bodies that quickly lose value as new camera bodies come out...a great lens will not. One of the very best is the old Canon "magic stove pipe" 80-200mm f2.8 that stopped production a number of years ago....one reason being it had lead in the glass, which assisted in better lens quality that did not distort with heat....lenses do not come better than that, and the value of this lens has gone up and up.....

[markabilly]

s3, which remains so popular, that the "new" price of those reamining, has gone from $250 to $700 to 900

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-PowerShot-Image-Stabilized-Zoom/dp/B000EMWBV0/ref=sr_1_64?s=photo&ie=UTF8&qid=1298175982&sr=1-64

the s2 was also a great cmaera as well

[MrJan]

Well I went with a 450D with an EF 18-55 (I think), now to start saving for some more lenses.

[markabilly]

I'm an DSLR man myself and am still using my entry level Canon EOS 1000D...


My next purchase this spring will be the Canon EOS 7D as I feel I've got the best out of my present one and need to move up a notch... :)

6 years ago, one could not buy anything like this 7D. In 2005, one could get something close at a price of $9,000 for a 1DS mark 2.....and now, here comes the d7, at a ridiculously low price, with specs that are way beyond the 1ds mark 2....

The better sensors, clearly reveal the shortcomings of lenses, you will not get the best without a great lens. So, still suggest a canon f2.8 70-200mm or 80-200m (Without IS, as I had a 70-200mm IS f2.8 and sold it, too heavy and bulky and the 2.8 lens works as good in daylight.....) with that fast f2.8 lens, no need for a tripod even in poor light

use the latest adobe elements, to crop and do blowups and so forth

[GridGirl]

Five or six years ago when we got our 30D it was realistically a choice of 30D or spending a whole lot more money on a 5D. Buying a 1D was totally out of the question back then. The lenses we use the most are a Canon EF 50 mm f/1.8II (for indoor use only and Canon's cheapest lens), Canon 17-85 USM IS lens and the Canon EF70-200mm f/2.8 L IS USM zoom lens plus a Canon EF 1.4x II extender if required. The 70-200mm lens is heavy which is why we expermented with a £300 point and shoot to try and weight out the pros and cons of lugging 2kg extra weight when we're hiking mountains last year.

This thread is making me want to get the 7D more and more. I dont want to be tempted to look at our camera wishlist on Amazon as there are a few L series lenses on there that we'd quite fancy.

[markabilly]

Five or six years ago when we got our 30D it was realistically a choice of 30D or spending a whole lot more money on a 5D. Buying a 1D was totally out of the question back then. The lenses we use the most are a Canon EF 50 mm f/1.8II (for indoor use only and Canon's cheapest lens), Canon 17-85 USM IS lens and the Canon EF70-200mm f/2.8 L IS USM zoom lens plus a Canon EF 1.4x II extender if required. The 70-200mm lens is heavy which is why we expermented with a £300 point and shoot to try and weight out the pros and cons of lugging 2kg extra weight when we're hiking mountains last year.

This thread is making me want to get the 7D more and more. I dont want to be tempted to look at our camera wishlist on Amazon as there are a few L series lenses on there that we'd quite fancy.

might consider a swap out to a non-IS f2.8 zoom. As I said, I had both for a short while and got rid of the IS lens as it was just too heavy and bulky---and the difference in picture quality between them, left me keeping the old 80-200 f2.8 L that was made around 1990.

BTW, all my major camera gear and lenses have been bought used, saving me a bundle, and lucky me, never had a problem with any of it. The only lens that I have sold is the IS for the reasons stated

The 7d strikes me as a bargain, and while I have not bought one, the reveiws on DP, make me think it is more than worth the price comparatively speaking

[Daniel]

1. a 4 megapixel camera can take awesome photos that blow up to 8 x 10 or larger, right out of the camera.
2. No matter how many megapixels you have, the computer screen will down rez the photo to fit the screen and a 4 megapixel will fill it up as well or better than 12 or 15.....
3. all 4 x 6 photos printers will print at the same resolution of the 4 megapixel ( and down rez the 12 megapixel to a 4 megapixel)
4. The overall size of the sensor plate has not increased, it has just more pixels packed in, which leads to digital noise issues, which the camera must process out of the photo to avoid murky grainy looking photos.*


Amen to that. I'd got a 6mp D70s and it's still fantastic :)

[MrJan]

Amen to that. I'd got a 6mp D70s and it's still fantastic :)

Indeed. It's strange how often you mention a camera and the first thing that people ask is "how many mp has it got?"

The one area that it's an advantage is when you want to see certain details. E.G the little point and shoot I have at work has only got a 3x optical (and no digital) zoom, but with 12mp you can blow it up on screen to get quite a decent idea of details. From a proper photography point of view this is rpetty much useless, but as I use it to take reference photos for work it's extremely helpful.

[Daniel]

Indeed. It's strange how often you mention a camera and the first thing that people ask is "how many mp has it got?"

The one area that it's an advantage is when you want to see certain details. E.G the little point and shoot I have at work has only got a 3x optical (and no digital) zoom, but with 12mp you can blow it up on screen to get quite a decent idea of details. From a proper photography point of view this is rpetty much useless, but as I use it to take reference photos for work it's extremely helpful.

Yes it's sadly one thing which has driven manufacturers of cameras to create cameras with higher and higher MP counts but which don't actually give you any improvement in image quality. My PC monitor can display a resolution of 2.3 MP (a standard 1280*1024 screen will give you 1.3 and a 1920*1080 screen will be 2.0 MP) so if for instance I'm putting a photo as my background, there's no difference between a 6.0 mp photo and a 12 mp photo :) Of course for detail a high MP count will be good, but if you want quality you will want as little noise as possible which is where a good quality sensor comes in :)

[GridGirl]

Our 30D is only 8MP but you wouldn't notice. Half of the reason we're looking at a replacement is for one of us to have the old camera with a shorter zoom lens and then one of us to have the newer camera with a large lens. Sometimes it can just be a pain in the butt to be swapping when your out and about. :)

[Daniel]

Our 30D is only 8MP but you wouldn't notice. Half of the reason we're looking at a replacement is for one of us to have the old camera with a shorter zoom lens and then one of us to have the newer camera with a large lens. Sometimes it can just be a pain in the butt to be swapping when your out and about. :)

Yeah. If I every bought another camera I'd just carry it and my D70s about and have a big lens on one and a wide angle on the other.

I extremely recommend the Cannon Insurgent XT it is a fairly old photographic camera and it is ideal for a beginner it is what i use it is easy, resilient, and is amazing i am fairly sure it is about $200 or less expensive and i recommend purchasing a used one i guarantee you will drop madly in really like with it excellent luck...

I extremely recommend the Cannon Insurgent XT it is a fairly old photographic camera and it is ideal for a beginner it is what i use it is easy, resilient, and is amazing i am fairly sure it is about $200 or less expensive and i recommend purchasing a used one i guarantee you will drop madly in really like with it excellent luck...




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