H-Pattern Transmission

[wedge]

Do they left foot brake with the manual stick shift in BTCC like they do in V8s/NASCAR or do they have to use the clutch for every shift?

[The mad monk]

Some do,some dont.
clutch on downshifts(and heel and toe if they are any good).
can 'flat shift' upwards.
Anyone who is particularly good in the wet will always heel and toe on downchanges,and it will show in their abilities.
Modern single seaters are devoid of gearchanging skills,just like a playstation!

[wedge]

I don't suppose anyone knows who build the transmissions for the BMWs in BTCC?

[MrJan]

BTCC isn't H-pattern, it's sequential (or are there a few proper gearboxes out there?).

Some drivers left foot brake and others don't. In some places it's an advantage and in others not. There was a feature on it a while back between Plato (normal) and Muller (LFB). Muller would kill the brakes on some tracks but it also can help in setting the car up better for the corner by shifting the weight.

However left foot braking and using the clutch are unrelated. I think you mean double declutching or heel-toe. For this you use your right foot on the brake and put the clutch in before 'blipping' the throttle as you shift. I wouldn't have thought that they need to do it as they should have syncro mesh 'boxes. In the case of syncromesh it just makes everything a bit smoother (as Mad Monk says it helps in the wet as the beack is less likely to step out)

[Abo]

BTCC isn't H-pattern, it's sequential (or are there a few proper gearboxes out there?).

Some BMW's run H-pattern shifts. Some privateers maybe use them?

[LiamM]

Matt Jackson has had one at some point hasnt he? I dont no if he's changed it or not tho?

[wedge]

BTCC isn't H-pattern, it's sequential (or are there a few proper gearboxes out there?).

Some drivers left foot brake and others don't. In some places it's an advantage and in others not. There was a feature on it a while back between Plato (normal) and Muller (LFB). Muller would kill the brakes on some tracks but it also can help in setting the car up better for the corner by shifting the weight.

However left foot braking and using the clutch are unrelated. I think you mean double declutching or heel-toe. For this you use your right foot on the brake and put the clutch in before 'blipping' the throttle as you shift. I wouldn't have thought that they need to do it as they should have syncro mesh 'boxes. In the case of syncromesh it just makes everything a bit smoother (as Mad Monk says it helps in the wet as the beack is less likely to step out)

No, I didn't mean heel and toe. Try watching different categories! I was watching JPM drive a NASCAR as if it was an F1 car except he changed gears manually with his left foot positioned on the brake - no double de-clutching. I know his transmission completely different.

I just want to know a bit more of transmission on the BMWs.

[thetrooper_scot]

Matt Jackson and Team RAC use the H pattern style gears as they get a weight reduction on the car.

[MrJan]

No, I didn't mean heel and toe. Try watching different categories! I was watching JPM drive a NASCAR as if it was an F1 car except he changed gears manually with his left foot positioned on the brake - no double de-clutching. I know his transmission completely different.

I just want to know a bit more of transmission on the BMWs.

I just don't see why left foot braking would make a difference to being able to performa clutchless gear change, except in getting the revs in the right range. I know that V8 Supercars can do clutchless when doing straight changes but not across the 'box. Does JPM do it on upshift, downshift or both?



And I would watch other series' but V8s are on C5 in the middle of the night and I find NASCAR even less exciting than watching paint dry, I know it takes great skill but it just doesn't interest me.

[wedge]

Sorry, I must be confusing thing by mentioning LFB. I know drivers have different driving styles.

JPM was up and downshifting without a clutch. Only uses the clutch getting out of his pitbox.

[MrJan]

I'd have thought that clutchless downshift puts a real strain on the transmission. But then aren't NASCAR cars built like tractors and can take a fair bit of punishment?

I would have thought that the high number of changes in BTCC (think somewhere like Croft or Rockingham) would be quite a toll. That said the oval races are much longer.

[wedge]

I'd have thought that clutchless downshift puts a real strain on the transmission. But then aren't NASCAR cars built like tractors and can take a fair bit of punishment?

I would have thought that the high number of changes in BTCC (think somewhere like Croft or Rockingham) would be quite a toll. That said the oval races are much longer.

Ooops forgot to take that into account! NASCAR has a 4 speed 'box

[Iain]

I don't suppose anyone knows who build the transmissions for the BMWs in BTCC?

Team RAC used an Xtrac sequential transmission last year. Funnily enough an old schoolmate of mine is a design engineer with Xtrac now and I sometimes see him at the races. One of his nicknames at school was 'The Wedge'. :p :

[racer69]

I know that V8 Supercars can do clutchless when doing straight changes but not across the 'box.

You can shift without the clutch across the gate in V8Supercars, many do, just alot of people use the clutch going across the gate to avoid 'buzzing' the engine if they wrong-slot and select 1st instead of 3rd for example.

V8Supercars have started using sequentials this season anyway as well.

[MrJan]

You can shift without the clutch across the gate in V8Supercars, many do, just alot of people use the clutch going across the gate to avoid 'buzzing' the engine if they wrong-slot and select 1st instead of 3rd for example.

V8Supercars have started using sequentials this season anyway as well.

Ahh. It's been about 5 years since I even saw highlights and remember the commentator saying that they'd go 3 to 4th without using the clutch but not 2nd to 3rd.

[wedge]

V8Supercars have started using sequentials this season anyway as well.

That's a bummer :(

Aussies rule when it comes to in-car cams. Loved the pedal cam when you seem them heel & toe-ing, dancing on the pedals.

[AndySpeed]

Didn't Colin Turkington spin out at Brands Hatch earlier this year because he got his gear change wrong in the H-Pattern box?

[racer69]

Aussies rule when it comes to in-car cams.

Thats because we developed it (in terms of live coverage of races :) )

[Iain]

Didn't Colin Turkington spin out at Brands Hatch earlier this year because he got his gear change wrong in the H-Pattern box?

Sort of, it wasn't a case of him going from 5th to 1st, instead of 5th to 3rd for example. It was more to do with him misjudging the revs when downchanging and it locking the rear axle when the engine is at a certain RPM.