Did Lewis deserve the drive-thru penalty?

[wedge]

Tough one to call.

50-50

Perhaps a tad too harsh, TBH, as he was slightly ahead as they were side by side.

Don't understand why there isn't normal turf round that part of the track. I suppose the GPDA complained about dirt and crap being brought onto the racing line :rolleyes:

[F1boat]

Aha. Check Heiki in the penultimate lap, slowed trough the chicane, didn't pass Triulli, no problem, no penalty.
Lewis passed Vettel. Should have let him go ahead of him.

[VkmSpouge]

I would prefer to have seen a camera angle outside of Hamilton's cockpit before making final judgement but I'm guessing the stewards have access to that footage and made the appropriate call.

[Tazio]

I think the penalty was fair even though Hamilton most likely would have held onto the position.
If you pass and then don't make the next chicane,
It is arguably because you hadn't braked early enough to stay on track!
Kinda sucks as passing is so difficult in F1

[Daniel]

Very fair. This is yet more proof that Lewis just doesn't have the mindset of a champion. A better driver would have let Vettel past and have had him on the next lap but Lewis didn't do it and paid for it...... Tunnel vision gets you nowhere kiddo.

[Garry Walker]

Very fair. This is yet more proof that Lewis just doesn't have the mindset of a champion. A better driver would have let Vettel past and have had him on the next lap but Lewis didn't do it and paid for it...... Tunnel vision gets you nowhere kiddo.

You took the words out of my keyboard.

Hamilton was being stupid again and paid the penalty. Deserved.

[Somebody]

On balance, yeah. If he had slowed enough to make the corner, he wouldn't have made the pass. So he gained/held a place ONLY by cutting the corner, so he "gained an advantage" by cutting the corner, so, yeah, pretty much exactly what the rule is designed for.

What he SHOULD have done is given the place back - he could almost certainly have taken the car again, fair & square, given their relative levels of performance, so it was a boneheaded call to hold it.

[ioan]

...given their relative levels of performance, so it was a boneheaded call to hold it.

Nothing short of what I was expecting from Lewy.
But what about the team? What the hell were they thinking? That they will not be penalized because they already got some penalties?! :rolleyes:

[Zico]

Very fair. This is yet more proof that Lewis just doesn't have the mindset of a champion. A better driver would have let Vettel past and have had him on the next lap but Lewis didn't do it and paid for it...... Tunnel vision gets you nowhere kiddo.

According to Brundle that decision would most likely have been down to the team after they'd spoken by radio to the FIA, if that is indeed the case you cant exactly blame Lewis personally.

It may be down to an interpretation of the rules but overall I agree with the decision, technicaly he may well have been past Vetel by the time he left the track but that is an extremely bad precedent to set imo..

[wedge]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

They were side by side, Lewis had the outside line for the first part of the chicane, makes a slight error into the second part and goes off the track.

Brundle called it 50-50

what if Lewis/McLaren got away with it? Giving the place back to Vettel would've slightly hampered his charge through the field.

Not that I'm Lewis-lover, the stewards have made error judgements before so I'm wondering how they made the decision. It's going to be interesting how this all unravels!

[Daika]

According to Brundle that decision would most likely have been down to the team after they'd spoken by radio to the FIA, if that is indeed the case you cant exactly blame Lewis personally.



Drivers judgement, Hamilton is driving the car not his team. I think you can blame Hamilton for this.

[Sleeper]

No, not really. The onboard clearly shows Lewis got to the apex of the first part of the chicane so the pass on Vettel was already done and dusted, plus, he got sidways when he hit that kurb which sent him off. What I want to know is, why did they give him a penalty when the stewards have been happy to let other people get away with it for years (Schumacher/de la Rosa in Hungry 06 anyone?).

[Somebody]

It may be down to an interpretation of the rules but overall I agree with the decision, technicaly he may well have been past Vetel by the time he left the track but that is an extremely bad precedent to set imo..

But that's the whole point - if you jump a chicane with premeditation, you will almost ALWAYS take a car close in front before the chicane itself (if you don't just collect him, of course) because they'll have to brake before you.

I'm not saying LH was premediated here, but the same principle applies - if you outbrake yourself, you will be going faster, and so you'll get ahead... until you crash, spin or jump the chicane.

[elinagr]

fair..

[wedge]

(Schumacher/de la Rosa in Hungry 06 anyone?).

I'm pretty sure Schumi immediately gave the place back.

[ioan]

No, not really. The onboard clearly shows Lewis got to the apex of the first part of the chicane so the pass on Vettel was already done and dusted, plus, he got sidways when he hit that kurb which sent him off. What I want to know is, why did they give him a penalty when the stewards have been happy to let other people get away with it for years (Schumacher/de la Rosa in Hungry 06 anyone?).

Care to show us when did MS pass PDLR by cutting a chicane in Hungary 2006 and kept his position?!

[Bezza]

Yes. Definately. He gained an advantage from going across the chicane. Basics.

He is really not impressive when in traffic. Seems as if he's anywhere from 2nd-20th, he can't cope too well!

[Nikki Katz]

I don't understand why the team didn't ask race control to clarify the situation over whether or not he should give the place back, it would have saved a lot of trouble. Or if they did ask then I'm not sure why he got the penalty.
But assuming that none of that happened then I guess it was justified.

[Bezza]

I agree, Nikki.

Maybe McLaren told him to but Lewis didn't agree...

[Daniel]

I agree, Nikki.

Maybe McLaren told him to but Lewis didn't agree...
I think it needs to be given back there and then for there to be any effect on penalty.

[Somebody]

I think it needs to be given back there and then for there to be any effect on penalty.
I believe you to be right on this matter.

[markabilly]

I don't understand why the team didn't ask race control to clarify the situation over whether or not he should give the place back, it would have saved a lot of trouble. Or if they did ask then I'm not sure why he got the penalty.
But assuming that none of that happened then I guess it was justified.

Of course!! It was the team's fault, once again, like not telling him to stop at red lights...... :mad:

RD should be given a drive by penalty, and lewis should do another commercial...... after all, danica P is doing photo "spreads", beckham is doing undie ads (and denying claims of photo enlargement of his "gear" with photoshop), so the team better wake up Lewis, get him to strip and get with it now...once again, his own team is letting him down..... :(

[gravity]

I couldn't see exactly where Vettel was from that onboard shot and haven't seen any other angle myself. If Vettel and Hamilton were close enough that contact was an issue, I'd say that Hamilton did the right thing by running wide. If LH did run wide out of choice (to avoid contact) then I would understand why he didn't think of giving the place back.

There are other things happening on track that are affecting the results more than curb-hopping. Like weaving down the straights! A driver gets into the slipstream and the lead car takes a tight turn. According to the rules, he is not allowed to make any movement back online. I've seen the lead car move so far across that u can't get a bicycle thru on the inside, then weave back towards the racing line just on corner entry. In my opinion, those drivers should get a drive thru immediately. That has to be as bad, if not worse, than the LH situation today.

[Big Ben]

Care to show us when did MS pass PDLR by cutting a chicane in Hungary 2006 and kept his position?!

He kept his position because he cut the chicane. If he had stayed on track he woudd have been overtaken by PDLR....
make an effort and try to be objective.

I don´t know how was this the team´s fault

[Big Ben]

the penalty was correct, no doubt... He passed because he didn´t brake in time so he missed the corner and cut the chicane...

[Big Ben]

I'm pretty sure Schumi immediately gave the place back.

well.... you´re wrong... he tried the same trick the following lap but didn´t pull it off that time.

[ioan]

He kept his position because he cut the chicane. If he had stayed on track he woudd have been overtaken by PDLR....
make an effort and try to be objective.

I don´t know how was this the team´s fault

You're basing your point on a supposition, there is no proof to support it.

[F1boat]

well.... you´re wrong... he tried the same trick the following lap but didn´t pull it off that time.

And then he retired. This penalties are given several laps after the "crime".

[Big Ben]

You're basing your point on a supposition, there is no proof to support it.

of course there isn´t .... because he cut the chicane!
it was pretty obvious but that´s not enough for you...

[Daika]

Did Micheal Schumacher win today?

[truefan72]

the penalty was a bit harsh.

1. he had clearly passed him as they entered the chicane, and avoided crashing into the driver ahead ( which would have been the car in consideration for taking advantage off) casing him to loose time to that car and avoiding crashing into him.

2. If at all it was deemed by the stewards to be an infractrion, why was he not radio'd to let Vettel repass. Both Mclaren and Hamilton saw nothing wrong with the move,and I'm sure it is only after some dubious protest by STR that after a number of laps, they issued a penalty.

I would like to know the due process in this situation. Is the driver warned to let the other car repass, or do they just wait for 6,7 laps and then call in the driver?

meanwhile Kimi drivers around for half the race with a dangerous piece of exhaust pipe dangling from the car, and obvious danger to the cars behind. No call in, nothing from the stewards, he even gets to pit and exit with the same danger until it luckily falls off while on the track.

Then trulli swerves into Kovaleinen which could have ended up terribly and nothing.

oh well. without that penality, he would have challenged for 3rd.

[Daika]

the penalty was a bit harsh.


2. If at all it was deemed by the stewards to be an infractrion, why was he not radio'd to let Vettel repass. Both Mclaren and Hamilton saw nothing wrong with the move,and I'm sure it is only after some dubious protest by STR that after a number of laps, they issued a penalty.




It always take time to investigate before a penalty is given. Ofcourse the Mclaren are long gone before they can give vettel his place back. Ofcourse Mclaren and Hamilton think it is a correct move like a turkey doesn;t want his head chopped off for thanksgiving.

[clavius85]

Then trulli swerves into Kovaleinen which could have ended up terribly and nothing.

Looked to me like fair fighting from Trulli. Based on in-car footage from Heikki, Trulli definitely appeared to have had the line and Heikki should have backed off. But I'll look at it again once I finish downloading the ITV broadcast. :)

[Robinho]

i've seen penalties given for less, i've seen them not given for worse, it was a close enough call to say that a penalty is fair, and McLaren have certainly used up any credit they had with the FIA so if there is a close call i reckon it will be a while before they get one in their favour, and to be honest i don't think they would be able to argue with that.

the incident in isolation, hamilton was past, but conceivabley if he'd slwed enough to not understeer out of the chicane then he may not have made the pass - tough call, i wouldn't have given the penalty, but then again i don't think it was exactly unfair

[truefan72]

i've seen penalties given for less, i've seen them not given for worse, it was a close enough call to say that a penalty is fair, and McLaren have certainly used up any credit they had with the FIA so if there is a close call i reckon it will be a while before they get one in their favour, and to be honest i don't think they would be able to argue with that.

the incident in isolation, hamilton was past, but conceivabley if he'd slwed enough to not understeer out of the chicane then he may not have made the pass - tough call, i wouldn't have given the penalty, but then again i don't think it was exactly unfair


fair enough assesment

[Ghostwalker]

i'm not 100% sure but i think Vettel's position is irrelevent in this case. Its not wheither you gain a position or not its about gaining an advantage towards other car(s).

If you look at this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWvelG8gsMg

Hamilton overtook a car just before the chicane but when approaching the next chicane he goes straigh on instead of breaking and turning right into the chicane.

Again i'm not 100% sure but i think all "short cuts" over chicanes/corners are banned and drivers doing that will have to slow down to make sure that any possible advantage gained through the "false" manoveur will be gone.

[gravity]

The law that they keep quoting on ITV states that you aren't allowed to miss an apex in order to gain or to maintain your position.

As LH was ahead of Vettel before the entry of the first turn, I don't think the penalty was for 'advantage gaining for making a position'. I think the penalty was for 'advantage gained for not losing a position'.

[F1boat]

It was for gaining an advantage. Not a place.

[N. Jones]

People! There is no point in arguing these decisions. I came to the conclusion long ago that the race stewards are inconsistent and always will be unless some radical change is made. Wasting time yelling at the TV when a dumb decision comes down is a waste of energy...

[Ghostwalker]

Truefan, onemore thing. i think Lewis should should have noticedthat he drived over the chicane and not through it. therefore he should have know that he had to back off but he continued to race as nothing had happened.

[truefan72]

great video,

look at 20seconds into the video, you can see that he is clearly ahead of vettel entering the chicane
look at 24secodns into the video, he is behind the RBR and has not gained anything from that maneauver.

He clearly passed Vettela and was quickly approaching the RBR in front of him, who by the video you can tell had slowed a bit into the turn. Hamilton had two options, neither of which gained him any unfair advantage at all. He could have crashed into the back of the RBR or he could take evasive action and use the run off area of the chicane to avoid contact, which i assume is what that run off area is designed to do right?

the only issue would have been if he overtook Webber, which he didn't so the call to penalize him is more suspect than clear cut.

[truefan72]

People! There is no point in arguing these decisions. I came to the conclusion long ago that the race stewards are inconsistent and always will be unless some radical change is made. Wasting time yelling at the TV when a dumb decision comes down is a waste of energy...

at the end of the day you are right. My frustrations right now will subside soon, and I'll look forward to a good race in silverstone.

[El Sween]

I think it was a little harsh on Lewis but the stewards decision was final and on we move to the next race.

[Ghostwalker]

great video,

look at 20seconds into the video, you can see that he is clearly ahead of vettel entering the chicane
look at 24secodns into the video, he is behind the RBR and has not gained anything from that maneauver.

He clearly passed Vettela and was quickly approaching the RBR in front of him, who by the video you can tell had slowed a bit into the turn. Hamilton had two options, neither of which gained him any unfair advantage at all. He could have crashed into the back of the RBR or he could take evasive action and use the run off area of the chicane to avoid contact, which i assume is what that run off area is designed to do right?

the only issue would have been if he overtook Webber, which he didn't so the call to penalize him is more suspect than clear cut.

If he could not steer his car into the chicane without hitting the other car in front of hime he was going to fast. as a result he went straight on over the chicane. By doing that he gained an advantage over the other cars. he was almost along side the car in front of him which he would not have been if he had slowed down to take the chicane in an appropiate way.

read my previous post. Its not about gaining a position its about gaining an advantage.

[N. Jones]

at the end of the day you are right. My frustrations right now will subside soon, and I'll look forward to a good race in silverstone.

They have been so inconsistent that I find there is no use to arguing. Some people drive offline and get a penalty and some don't. I don't know why but it happens. And it happens with every type of infraction... (sadly)

[gloomyDAY]

Bad call against Hamilton.

He passes Vettel and cuts the chicane to avoid an incident with the car in front. This really hasn't been McLaren's weekend. The FIA has been taking a dump on this team repeatedly. 10 place grid penalty for Lewis (tough but fair), 5 place grid penalty for Heikki (for no apparent reason), and then the drive-through penalty for Lewis (F.U.B.A.R.)!

[markabilly]

this was not the classic cut across chicane to gain a spot....more like a slip coming out of a corner going into the second corner, lots of drivers have ran wide upon exit after an overtake.

guess they saw it as a chicane-cut rather than simply going wide, but even so, it does strike me as a bit harsh.

Perhaps the aftermath of Canada, where the stewarts did not feel enough penalty, and they needed an excuse or what?
or just inconsistent?
or just no one in France likes those brits and their teams?

[TMorel]

Out of interest (I know, I'm comparing kumquats and papaya) when during qualifying Kimi had all four wheels over the white line and Brundle questioned if his time would be disallowed for missing that bit of the track, does anyone know if Kimi's time was removed for that lap?

[yodasarmpit]

Seemed a little harsh, but if he'd just allowed the other car to retake the position then this would never have been an issue.

[Hawkmoon]

It wasn't a black-and-white decision so I think you can argue either way. Hamilton was carrying too much speed on the wrong line after passing Vettel so had to cut the chicane. I think the fact that he went over the chicane faster than if he had negaotiated the chicane properly resulted in the penalty. Compare that with Kovalainen who had to slow down to get back onto the circuit after his half-arsed attempt on Trulli. No penalty for the Finn, penalty for the Brit

[Valve Bounce]

Tough one to call.

50-50

Perhaps a tad too harsh, TBH, as he was slightly ahead as they were side by side.

Don't understand why there isn't normal turf round that part of the track. I suppose the GPDA complained about dirt and crap being brought onto the racing line :rolleyes:

I'm sure the Stewards had a good look at it. If he had slowed and conceded the place back to Vettel, he would have passed Vettel half a lap later. Case of brain fade more than anything else.

[markabilly]

Why not the stewards just radio the driver and say u move over and let him back in front for minor offenses.

Same for blocking. They really want to open it up, then one clear block, and over you go.
Radio.......a new invention so use it.

[CNR]

:confused: have they had any team radio for Lewis on itv :confused:
maybe his race engineer don't speak to him over the radio
maybe it is time to try a new race engineer

[truefan72]

:confused: have they had any team radio for Lewis on itv :confused:
maybe his race engineer don't speak to him over the radio
maybe it is time to try a new race engineer

good point. :Talking:

[truefan72]

:confused: have they had any team radio for Lewis on itv :confused:
maybe his race engineer don't speak to him over the radio
maybe it is time to try a new race engineer

good point

[CNR]

http://www.planet-f1.co.za/story/0,18954,3265_3724292,00.html

In Canada Lewis Hamilton was rightly penalised for his pitlane accident - at the same grand prix Sebsatian Vettel was only able to stop Heikki Kovalainen overtaking him by repeatedly cutting the apex on the last chicane. He wasn't penalised.

[Valve Bounce]

The French and the Canadians appear to be on opposite sides of the Atlantic. :p :

[CNR]

do not forget that most of the race race stewards are volunteers
so they may only be at one gp per year.

some of this could be fixed by having full time jobs for race stewards with mandatory training before the start of each f1 season

[Valve Bounce]

do not forget that most of the race race stewards are volunteers
so they may only be at one gp per year.

some of this could be fixed by having full time jobs for race stewards with mandatory training before the start of each f1 season

Let's face it - they are no more inconsistant than our AFL umpires. :rolleyes:

[markabilly]

Lewis speaks out (well, surprize, surprize...)

"I feel cool. It's all good. Racing is racing. I'm still here, there's nothing you can do to get me out of it,"

"I continued because I don't believe I overtook him by going over the kerb, I actually took him before that."

"I kept pushing. There's nothing you can do that can distract me. You can keep on giving me penalties and whatever you want to do and I'll keep battling and try and come back with a result."

"I did everything I needed to do, I stayed out of trouble and drove what I thought was a fair race"



Now all he really needed to say was: "I continued because I don't believe I overtook him by going over the kerb, I actually took him before that."


but no, much like Danica P., he has to keep going on with being "cool", "nothing you can do distract me" , "giving me penalties" and on :laugh: .


And there are those who might think that a mouth like that is the best way to win fans and influence people.....and the thing is, it is working out quite well for both of them.......maybe it comes from pro werstlin, hulk hogan and such......

[Valve Bounce]

I think he is just putting more and more pressure on himself. He doesn't appear to appreciate the rules: we know he passed him before the curbs; it did appear he was then going too fast to make the corner after that, so he simply cut the corner and in so doing, he gained an advantage.

This type of arrogance doesn't win races, it creates penalties.

[grantb4]

Yes he deserved the penalty. I think anytime a driver goes 4 wheels off and continues he should get a penalty -- whether or not there was a pass involved.

And yes Kimi should have been shown the meatball and they should have cut the thermocouple wire holding the pipe to the car.

[Ranger]

Vettel should have been penalised in Canada for cutting chicanes more than once to stay ahead of Kovalainen.

If not, then Hamilton shouldn't have been penalised.

[jens]

Well, this case creates some debate. From the video it could be seen that Hamilton had passed Vettel before the corner. A shame I haven't seen a video from Vettel's onboard or a helicopter view to see the exact location of Vettel's car.


Vettel should have been penalised in Canada for cutting chicanes more than once to stay ahead of Kovalainen.

If not, then Hamilton shouldn't have been penalised.

Sounds right. I have seen drivers cutting a chicane many times in order to avoid contacts.

And yes, Schumacher cut a chicane at Hungaroring 2006 too as here was a debate about that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d35J1DwiZQ
Take a look at approximately 3:30. A very similar situation. Drivers side-by-side into the corner and MS takes an avoiding action.

With Kovalainen getting quite an easy penalty in qualifying, then I don't wonder about folks getting suspicious here. :p :

[ShiftingGears]

Some onboard footage from Vettel would certainly clear the issue.

[ArrowsFA1]

Very close call IMHO. We have to assume the stewards had footage from many different angles on which they based their judgement, rather than just LH's in-car camera that TV viewers saw. Form that view I think LH cut the corner to avoid a possible avoidable incident so he was stuffed either way. Perhaps he should have been more patient, but he is a racing driver after all and we complain if there are no passes!!

One of the issues here is the lack of consistency where the stewards are concerned. I don't know if there still is a permanent steward, or whether the stewards have any racing experience, but I guess they have a difficult job to do.

[ioan]

Did Micheal Schumacher win today?

No, but I think that "eu" is still having nightmares featuring MS! :laugh:

[ioan]

He clearly passed Vettela and was quickly approaching the RBR in front of him, who by the video you can tell had slowed a bit into the turn.

Ofcourse the RBR had slowed a bit into the turn, all the cars go slower when turning in a chicane, well unless driven by Lewy who forgets to brake and cuts the chicanes.

[ioan]

Lewis speaks out (well, surprize, surprize...)

"I feel cool. It's all good. Racing is racing. I'm still here, there's nothing you can do to get me out of it,"

"I continued because I don't believe I overtook him by going over the kerb, I actually took him before that."

"I kept pushing. There's nothing you can do that can distract me. You can keep on giving me penalties and whatever you want to do and I'll keep battling and try and come back with a result."

"I did everything I needed to do, I stayed out of trouble and drove what I thought was a fair race"

This guy has a problem between his ears.

[ArrowsFA1]

This guy has a problem between his ears.
Yet again, rather than insulting Hamilton, what does he say there that you object to?

[Valve Bounce]

Yet again, rather than insulting Hamilton, what does he say there that you object to?

I didn't like the entire schpiel. If ant had said that, the accusations of arrogance would have been deafening. Personally, I don't think Lewis was arrogant, just swell headed.

[ioan]

Yet again, rather than insulting Hamilton, what does he say there that you object to?

If he would have said something intelligent than i would have had something to object, but there is not even something worth of mentioning as insulting, it's only hot air straight from his lungs.

[ten-tenths]

Lewis speaks out (well, surprize, surprize...)

"I feel cool. It's all good. Racing is racing. I'm still here, there's nothing you can do to get me out of it,"

"I continued because I don't believe I overtook him by going over the kerb, I actually took him before that."

"I kept pushing. There's nothing you can do that can distract me. You can keep on giving me penalties and whatever you want to do and I'll keep battling and try and come back with a result."

"I did everything I needed to do, I stayed out of trouble and drove what I thought was a fair race"


seems like he has a persecution complex.. the guy has the world in the palm of his hand so i dont know where this is coming from. maybe throwing away the wdc last season is weighing heavily on his mind?

[ArrowsFA1]

...it's only hot air straight from his lungs.
Why all the fuss then? :p

I do think the backlash against him is having an effect on him and he'll probably have to learn to deal with the pressures more effectively. The amount of attention he's getting is unprecedented, but that doesn't alter the fact that he is a fighter and he will keep pushing. He'll also keep learning and improving.

[ioan]

Why all the fuss then? :p

I do think the backlash against him is having an effect on him and he'll probably have to learn to deal with the pressures more effectively. The amount of attention he's getting is unprecedented, but that doesn't alter the fact that he is a fighter and he will keep pushing. He'll also keep learning and improving.

And he will keep telling us all this! :rolleyes:

Talking about his sentiments in the way he does shows that he is on the brink of a breaking down.

[markabilly]

All he needed to say was: "I continued because I don't believe I overtook him by going over the kerb, I actually took him before that."

the rest is just more stuff..

[ArrowsFA1]

Talking about his sentiments in the way he does shows that he is on the brink of a breaking down.
Rubbish. What it does show is his frustration at losing vital championship points, and his determination to fight back. Sure, he could have worded things differently, but so what? Do we want characters and talking points in F1 or not?

[Daniel]

All he needed to say was: "I continued because I don't believe I overtook him by going over the kerb, I actually took him before that."

the rest is just more stuff..

Lewis has skill but lacks brains.....

[ioan]

Rubbish. What it does show is his frustration at losing vital championship points, and his determination to fight back. Sure, he could have worded things differently, but so what? Do we want characters and talking points in F1 or not?

You're right all we seem to need to make F1 better is hollow heads like Hamilton who rear ends a car, gets a penalty, cuts a chicane because he forgot to brake, again, gets another penalty and then he cries about how everyone is against him! :rolleyes:

If that's what you appreciate in F1 than it seems you are in the right fan base.

[Daniel]

Lewis speaks out (well, surprize, surprize...)

"I feel cool. It's all good. Racing is racing. I'm still here, there's nothing you can do to get me out of it,"

"I continued because I don't believe I overtook him by going over the kerb, I actually took him before that."

"I kept pushing. There's nothing you can do that can distract me. You can keep on giving me penalties and whatever you want to do and I'll keep battling and try and come back with a result."

"I did everything I needed to do, I stayed out of trouble and drove what I thought was a fair race"



Now all he really needed to say was: "I continued because I don't believe I overtook him by going over the kerb, I actually took him before that."


but no, much like Danica P., he has to keep going on with being "cool", "nothing you can do distract me" , "giving me penalties" and on :laugh: .


And there are those who might think that a mouth like that is the best way to win fans and influence people.....and the thing is, it is working out quite well for both of them.......maybe it comes from pro werstlin, hulk hogan and such......

You're completely right. If he'd just said that he thought he made a fair pass then that would be OK. But he's made himself look like a right clot by making out that he somehow doesn't deserve his penalties and that everyone is against him.

McLaren should give his seat to someone who's just as good buy nowhere near as gobby. Vettel would be my choice..... Of course that won't happen but I do think a year in a rubbish team would bring Hammy down to earth.

[gravity]

Lewis is the first black F1 driver. Howcome? He had to push himself into conversations and become a talking point to be noticed. Comments like that ^^ are exactly what got him noticed in the first place. And it worked. We're discussing it here.
Now that he is in F1, I would have thought he might back down a bit, but since he has a fanclub (and a reputation) I think he will carry on until his own fans start complaining.
Who is LH's PR manager now?

[Daniel]

Lewis is the first black F1 driver. Howcome? He had to push himself into conversations and become a talking point to be noticed. Comments like that ^^ are exactly what got him noticed in the first place. And it worked. We're discussing it here.
Now that he is in F1, I would have thought he might back down a bit, but since he has a fanclub (and a reputation) I think he will carry on until his own fans start complaining.
Who is LH's PR manager now?
No one cares that Lewis is black. I think Lewis' skin colour is irrelevant. If he was growing up in Apartheid South Africa he could yammer on about how he overcame prejudice and so on but he grew up in the UK where as a racing driver I don't think being black was a disadvantage.

[Knock-on]

He went for the overtake and was in front. I don't know if he straightlined to avoid contact with Vettel or not but if he did, then Vettel should have given racing room. However, until I see a clip I don't know.

If he was going too fast that he couldn't take the corner, then he deserved the penalty.

Either way, I agree with Robino that I have seen people get away with worse (I thought of Schumy and PdlR as well).

However, the Stewards decision is their decision but it does seem to be getting rather silly.

Lewis got a 10 place penalty - Fair
Lewis gets a questionable drive through - Undecided
Hekki gets a 5 spot penalty - BS

Mclaren must be thinking they are in the film "Escape to Victory"

[ioan]

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=35208

He sounds like Mr.T in one of the Rocky movies! ;)

[ioan]

He went for the overtake and was in front. I don't know if he straightlined to avoid contact with Vettel or not but if he did, then Vettel should have given racing room. However, until I see a clip I don't know.

If he was going too fast that he couldn't take the corner, then he deserved the penalty.

Lewis explains it pretty well in this article:
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=35208

Sorry, I can't quote it as it is a copy proof site.
However he pretty much says that he lost the back end of the car while trying to go around Vettel and as a result he cut over the chicane.
Did he lose the car because he was going to fast? If that's the case, and it seems it is, than he wouldn't have been in a position to overtake without making the subsequent mistake.

[ShiftingGears]

He has potential. But if he keeps switching off at crucial times and not translating his talent into the best results all the time, he'll end up like Montoya.


Also the fact that he regurgitates the same self appraising PR message every F&^%ing race gives me the S&$%s.

[Daniel]

He went for the overtake and was in front. I don't know if he straightlined to avoid contact with Vettel or not but if he did, then Vettel should have given racing room. However, until I see a clip I don't know.

If he was going too fast that he couldn't take the corner, then he deserved the penalty.

Either way, I agree with Robino that I have seen people get away with worse (I thought of Schumy and PdlR as well).

However, the Stewards decision is their decision but it does seem to be getting rather silly.

Lewis got a 10 place penalty - Fair
Lewis gets a questionable drive through - Undecided
Hekki gets a 5 spot penalty - BS

Mclaren must be thinking they are in the film "Escape to Victory"
I personally think "Our drivers made some silly mistakes and got penalised for them" would be a better movie analogy

[ArrowsFA1]

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=35208

He sounds like Mr.T in one of the Rocky movies! ;)

You're simply highlighting the problem...the same quotes being used by many different websites to produce a slightly different story.

There's nothing new, just a re-hash.

[MAX_THRUST]

Its sad a series which is lacking in overtaking is making it even harder to over take.......Well at least he did not cut in and cause a crash.

A bit of a grey area that rule but he did get the lesser of the three options available to the stewards. But then Kimi was aloud to run around with a flapping exhaust. What was more advantages or dangerous? I digress.

[ioan]

You're simply highlighting the problem...

So what?!
I know you would like us to praise Lewy for what a great British F1 driver he is, but really, it isn't the case to do it, so it's time to live with the, well deserved, criticism. :D

[ioan]

But then Kimi was aloud to run around with a flapping exhaust. What was more advantages or dangerous? I digress.

Watch all the teams having at least one flapping exhaust pipe next race, according to our resident Max, that's an advantage. :rolleyes:

The team should have removed the exhaust pipe, that's for sure, so I'm all for a hefty fine coming their way!

[ArrowsFA1]

Martin Brundle made the point during the ITV commentary that Magny-Cours "babysits" the drivers far too much i.e. the many tarmac runoff areas simply don't penalise mistakes, and in some cases reward errors.

Had there been gravel, and not tarmac, then we would not be discussing this incident (in the same way!!) because Lewis would have been beached and out of the race. Then again, he probably would not have attempted the pass on Vettel at that point anyway.

[Daniel]

I personally think "Our drivers made some silly mistakes and got penalised for them" would be a better movie analogy
Or perhaps "We're lucky even to be racing this year after being caught with a Ferrari dossier which we claim we never used" would be a good movie title also :)

[ArrowsFA1]

The team should have removed the exhaust pipe, that's for sure, so I'm all for a hefty fine coming their way!
A fine will make no difference whatsoever. Or perhaps the stewards should have fined Hamilton.

[Valve Bounce]

Martin Brundle made the point during the ITV commentary that Magny-Cours "babysits" the drivers far too much i.e. the many tarmac runoff areas simply don't penalise mistakes, and in some cases reward errors.

Had there been gravel, and not tarmac, then we would not be discussing this incident (in the same way!!) because Lewis would have been beached and out of the race. Then again, he probably would not have attempted the pass on Vettel at that point anyway.

And I supose if there had been a concrete barrier, we wouldn't be discussing this either.

Perhaps the stewards, after lengthy viewing of all the vids at their disposal, considered that Lewis Hamilton did gain an advantage when he cut the chicane. Had he slowed down sufficiently to go the proper route around the corner, he may not have been able to pass Vettel there.

My point here, and that was a point made by the commentators, is that had he used his head, and waited till Vettel re-passed him, he could have re-taken Vettel before another lap had passed.

I know this may irk some here, but one thing about SchM, he did use his head a lot of times to think out a race and how he would pass opponents. And more than Lewis Hamilton, I blame his pits for not telling him to let Vettel go past to exonerate him. From my perspective, I think he would have at least come fifth had he used his head.

[wedge]

But that doesn't explain the inconsistencies of the stewards.

Why is it Lewis gets penalised this time round and Vettel gets away with it Canada.

[Rusty Spanner]

The Hamilton penalty was marginal, a difficult call for the Stewards to make - I just hope they saw the external view we all missed in the TV coverage.

The Stewards not making Ferrari stop Raikkonen and remove the flapping exhaust was clear cut and in my opinion wrong. Having a car racing around with a lump of metal flapping in the breeze that could fly off at any moment really wasn't acceptable. No one knew whether the exhaust was going to stay attached or not.

[ArrowsFA1]

My point here, and that was a point made by the commentators, is that had he used his head, and waited till Vettel re-passed him, he could have re-taken Vettel before another lap had passed.
In hindsight I suspect Lewis would agree with you :cool:

I know this may irk some here, but one thing about SchM, he did use his head a lot of times to think out a race and how he would pass opponents.
I agree that was one of his major strengths, but early in his career he was as prone to making errors. Experience can't be bought, it takes time to be accumulated, and as Jackie Stewart has said (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/68591)of his own career "I gained experience, which gave me knowledge, which in turn enabled me to deliver."

[Valve Bounce]

But that doesn't explain the inconsistencies of the stewards.

Why is it Lewis gets penalised this time round and Vettel gets away with it Canada.

Because France and Canada are on different sides of the Atlantic?

[ioan]

:laugh:

Typical British objectivity in action:


While Ron Dennis' hint that McLaren, no friends of the discredited FIA President Mosley, felt they were being victimised was played down by his number two Martin Whitmarsh, it has emerged that Donnelly, Mosley's 'official representative' at grands prix and a consultant to the FIA, 'led' the stewards when they studied footage of the incident. In January, it was announced that retiring permanent steward Tony Scott-Andrews would not be replaced and his place would instead by filled by Donnelly acting as a 'administrator'.

http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_3726064,00.html

Pathetic article. They manage to dig deeper every time! :)

[ioan]

A fine will make no difference whatsoever. Or perhaps the stewards should have fined Hamilton.

because you think that Raikkonen was at fault for a lose exhaust pipe?! The Lewy fanboy is talking there, not a F1 enthusiast.

[ioan]

But that doesn't explain the inconsistencies of the stewards.

Why is it Lewis gets penalised this time round and Vettel gets away with it Canada.

Because if Vettel didn't make the mistake in Canada then Kovalainen would have passed him?!
Any proof to support your view? I doubt it.

To make it clear, you can't penalize someone for something hypothetical, only for something that happened.

[Bezza]

From crash.net, this is what Hamilton says on the incident:

“I went into the corner believing I was ahead on the outside, and couldn't turn-in on the guy otherwise we would have crashed, so I took a wider line. Then I lost the back on the marbles and went over the kerb and continued. I don't believe I overtook him by going over the kerb. I overtook him before that, as a result [of which] I was forced wide.”

By saying this, he has admitted to being worthy of a penalty - I don't think he understands the rules.

The rule is about "gaining an advantage by going off circuit" nothing to do with overtaking as such. By going across the "kerb" as he calls it - a better term is "run-off" because that area used to be grass, he MAINTAINED his position and COMPLETED his overtaking manoevure. This is why he was penalised.

He needs to come down to earth a bit. One big error and one small error haven't done it, what will it take?

[ioan]

From crash.net, this is what Hamilton says on the incident:

“I went into the corner believing I was ahead on the outside, and couldn't turn-in on the guy otherwise we would have crashed, so I took a wider line. Then I lost the back on the marbles and went over the kerb and continued. I don't believe I overtook him by going over the kerb. I overtook him before that, as a result [of which] I was forced wide.”

By saying this, he has admitted to being worthy of a penalty - I don't think he understands the rules.

He clearly doesn't understand a lot of things about racing in F1, however why isn't the team helping him understand better, instead of letting him destroy his slimmest chances for a point?!

[ArrowsFA1]

because you think that Raikkonen was at fault for a lose exhaust pipe?! The Lewy fanboy is talking there, not a F1 enthusiast.
:laugh: :laugh: :rolleyes:

I have never said Raikkonen was at fault. The point I was making related to the effect a post-race fine on Ferrari would have had i.e. zero.

[Knock-on]

:laugh:

Typical British objectivity in action:



http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_3726064,00.html

Pathetic article. They manage to dig deeper every time! :)


According to ITV, who supply coverage of F1 in Britain, the only footage of the Hamilton incident provided by the FOM TV host broadcast was an on-board shot from the Englishman's McLaren that apparently showed Hamilton past Vettel before he approached the Nurburgring chicane.


They claim that 'No exterior shot of the incident was offered', but cite the FIA reporting that 'its stewards, led by Max Mosley's number two Alan Donnelly, had access to the circuit's closed circuit TV cameras when making their decision'. The Times reports that the stewards adjudged Hamilton's offence to be "very clear".


It is unclear, however, why this footage has not been made available.


Quote from PitPass.

What should also be asked of Mr Donnelly is why a lump of metal that was hanging off a Ferrari for Lap afte Lap until it went flying off on a corner, (thankfully without hitting, injuring or killing anyone) was not removed under a Black and Orange.

What would have happened if it was a McLaren :laugh:

[wedge]

From crash.net, this is what Hamilton says on the incident:

“I went into the corner believing I was ahead on the outside, and couldn't turn-in on the guy otherwise we would have crashed, so I took a wider line. Then I lost the back on the marbles and went over the kerb and continued. I don't believe I overtook him by going over the kerb. I overtook him before that, as a result [of which] I was forced wide.”

By saying this, he has admitted to being worthy of a penalty - I don't think he understands the rules.

The rule is about "gaining an advantage by going off circuit" nothing to do with overtaking as such. By going across the "kerb" as he calls it - a better term is "run-off" because that area used to be grass, he MAINTAINED his position and COMPLETED his overtaking manoevure. This is why he was penalised.

He needs to come down to earth a bit. One big error and one small error haven't done it, what will it take?

That was Lewis's perspective and I'm not sure he viewed a replay after he calmed down after the race before he decided to answer his critics.

Ron Dennis has a slightly different perspective when he talked to ITV:

http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=43085


Dennis, however, argued that Hamilton had already completed the manoeuvre before he ran wide.

“I think he was past him,” he told Ted Kravitz after the race.

“I don’t think he got any track position.

“That’s my opinion; obviously it’s not an opinion held by other people, but I think he was past.

“There’s really nothing to be gained from saying anything else.”

Dennis revealed that he had argued his case to FIA race director Charlie Whiting – but Whiting was unconvinced.

“I just told him that it was our opinion that Lewis was past before he got squeezed off the circuit,” said Dennis.

“I don’t think he gained a position through being off the road, but obviously other people had a different opinion.”

[SGWilko]

Lewis speaks out (well, surprize, surprize...)

"I feel cool. It's all good. Racing is racing. I'm still here, there's nothing you can do to get me out of it,"

"I continued because I don't believe I overtook him by going over the kerb, I actually took him before that."

"I kept pushing. There's nothing you can do that can distract me. You can keep on giving me penalties and whatever you want to do and I'll keep battling and try and come back with a result."

"I did everything I needed to do, I stayed out of trouble and drove what I thought was a fair race"



Now all he really needed to say was: "I continued because I don't believe I overtook him by going over the kerb, I actually took him before that."


but no, much like Danica P., he has to keep going on with being "cool", "nothing you can do distract me" , "giving me penalties" and on :laugh: .


And there are those who might think that a mouth like that is the best way to win fans and influence people.....and the thing is, it is working out quite well for both of them.......maybe it comes from pro werstlin, hulk hogan and such......

Now all you really needed to say was:

'Lewis speaks out'

but no, much like Danica P., you had to keep going on with ...... yada yada yada Koolaid yada

[Valve Bounce]

Quote from PitPass.

What should also be asked of Mr Donnelly is why a lump of metal that was hanging off a Ferrari for Lap afte Lap until it went flying off on a corner, (thankfully without hitting, injuring or killing anyone) was not removed under a Black and Orange.

What would have happened if it was a McLaren :laugh:

If it was a McLaren, it would have fallen off and killed someone??

[ioan]

:laugh: :laugh: :rolleyes:

I have never said Raikkonen was at fault. The point I was making related to the effect a post-race fine on Ferrari would have had i.e. zero.

They should have fined them during the race?!
Or you were hinting that they should have disqualified Kimi because the team didn't remove the lose exhaust pipe?!

It would have been a nice "an eye for an eye" in exchange for Lewy's (fully deserved) drive through penalty, isn't it?! :rolleyes:

Dream on. Your problem is that McLaren isn't the superior machine it was last season (mostly due to spying on the best team) and this shows that Hamilton is a driver like any other.

[ioan]

What would have happened if it was a McLaren :laugh:

Exactly the answer I was expecting! :rotflmao:

[ioan]

If it was a McLaren, it would have fallen off and killed someone??

Good one! :up:

[ioan]

That was Lewis's perspective and I'm not sure he viewed a replay after he calmed down after the race before he decided to answer his critics.

Ron Dennis has a slightly different perspective when he talked to ITV:

http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=43085

An in your opinion who was driving the car Lewy or Ron "Integrity" Dennis?

[SGWilko]

They should have fined them during the race?!
Or you were hinting that they should have disqualified Kimi because the team didn't remove the lose exhaust pipe?!

It would have been a nice "an eye for an eye" in exchange for Lewy's (fully deserved) drive through penalty, isn't it?! :rolleyes:

Dream on. Your problem is that McLaren isn't the superior machine it was last season (mostly due to spying on the best team) and this shows that Hamilton is a driver like any other.

Ioan, you are again missing the point.

The fact of the matter is that the broken exhaust DID fall off during the race. What IF (yes, this is hypothetical) it did hit another car, ruining the drivers race, or it hit a spectator?

The Stewards should have used the Black and Yellow flag to have it removed. How long does it take to snip a cable?

[SGWilko]

Exactly the answer I was expecting! :rotflmao:

Ioan, that was rhetoric I think you will find, it was a question (not an answer) that did not require a response.

[wedge]

An in your opinion who was driving the car Lewy or Ron "Integrity" Dennis?

Lewis was recalling from his memory, Ron was responding to the TV images and the stewards were privy to the CCTV images.

Unless the CCTV images are released then this argument is inconclusive!

[ioan]

Lewis was recalling from his memory, Ron was responding to the TV images and the stewards were privy to the CCTV images.

Unless the CCTV images are released then this argument is inconclusive!

Lewis knew that he ran wide while trying to go around Vettel, because he was the one driving the car.
Ron, he only said what he was willing to see or what he wanted us to believe that he saw.

[ioan]

Ioan, that was rhetoric I think you will find, it was a question (not an answer) that did not require a response.

Well a rhetoric question is actually an answer, that's exactly why it didn't require an answer.
and if you look again you'll see that I didn't answer his rhetoric question, instead I laughed at the answer he was giving.

[SGWilko]

Well a rhetoric question is actually an answer, that's exactly why it didn't require an answer.
and if you look again you'll see that I didn't answer his rhetoric question, instead I laughed at the answer he was giving.

At the risk of being repetitive...

Ioan, that was rhetoric I think you will find, it was a question (not an answer) that did not require a response.

[wedge]

Lewis knew that he ran wide while trying to go around Vettel, because he was the one driving the car.
Ron, he only said what he was willing to see or what he wanted us to believe that he saw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24c2GVlP2Ck

He hits the first apex which suggests Ron is correct that Lewis passed Vettel and completed the move before the chicane

[jas123f1]

Yes imo Hamilton did deserve the penalties and he got it (and btw Heikki too deserved his penalty). OK - It's understandable that Hamilton didn't like it but that has nothing to do with if he deserved it or not. He made a rookie mistake again and that’s it.. I think we can expect more mistakes from the guy, he is a good driver but he must be much cooler if he want to be a champ.. That was only one of many mistakes he has done this year and last year.

I’m not even sure that he has what is needed to be a champion. I think McLaren has almost a better opportunity in Kovy – he is a much cooler driver. I didn’t like the "team order" either when Kovy let Hamilton go past. However it didn’t help Lewis, it only showed everyone who is the first driver in the team. Not "that nice" for McLaren (that either).

And what did the team afterwards? Or if it was Ron Dennis private opinion that FIA is against his team??? What in hell is the man thinking? Is there some kind of limit for how many penalties a team can get? I think the only limit is a black flag and disqualification from the race :)

[Bagwan]

As I see it , Lewis had passed Sebastien at the entry , and then had to take evasive action to avoid a collision with the next car ahead in the chicane .

This fact gives Lewis his stance in the issue of whether Vettel should have been allowed past to retake the position .


However , the fact that Lewis entered the corner with that much more speed , so as to have to avoid a car that was ahead , indicates that he was unlikely to be able to negotiate the turn , as a result of the maneouvre , and thus used the run-off area to gain advantage to make the move .
His mentioning that the rear end started to step out also indicates the corner was taken too fast .


In that situation , one would imagine him immediately talking to the pits for advice . Ron would speak to Charlie , if , as it seems , it wasn't clear to him , and talks between the stewards and Charlie would be initiated .
That's not an easy moment , for if Lewis gets too far ahead of Vettel , as happened , and is deemed to have gained advantage , swapping places becomes much more of a penalty than a drive-through , especially if another rival gets around Vettel .

In the end , it would have been better to drop the position than start the discussion at all , as a drive-through was the only option the stewards had to penalize the infraction .
It was dump 5 seconds letting Vettel through , or risk a drive-through .

5 seconds might have had him still gain a few points .


Hamilton is a hell of a driver , but needs to get a firm grip on his mouth .
He's showing his rivals his weakness .

His big head is fragile .

[ioan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24c2GVlP2Ck

He hits the first apex which suggests Ron is correct that Lewis passed Vettel and completed the move before the chicane

He actually didn't really got the first apex either , he kind of went straight from along Vettel, tried to hit the first apex while carrying way to much speed, lost the back because he tried to turn in and corrected it cutting over the second part of the chicane.

[F1boat]

As I see it , Lewis had passed Sebastien at the entry , and then had to take evasive action to avoid a collision with the next car ahead in the chicane .

This fact gives Lewis his stance in the issue of whether Vettel should have been allowed past to retake the position .


However , the fact that Lewis entered the corner with that much more speed , so as to have to avoid a car that was ahead , indicates that he was unlikely to be able to negotiate the turn , as a result of the maneouvre , and thus used the run-off area to gain advantage to make the move .
His mentioning that the rear end started to step out also indicates the corner was taken too fast .


In that situation , one would imagine him immediately talking to the pits for advice . Ron would speak to Charlie , if , as it seems , it wasn't clear to him , and talks between the stewards and Charlie would be initiated .
That's not an easy moment , for if Lewis gets too far ahead of Vettel , as happened , and is deemed to have gained advantage , swapping places becomes much more of a penalty than a drive-through , especially if another rival gets around Vettel .

In the end , it would have been better to drop the position than start the discussion at all , as a drive-through was the only option the stewards had to penalize the infraction .
It was dump 5 seconds letting Vettel through , or risk a drive-through .

5 seconds might have had him still gain a few points .


Hamilton is a hell of a driver , but needs to get a firm grip on his mouth .
He's showing his rivals his weakness .

His big head is fragile .


Fantastic comment!

[gravity]

He actually didn't really got the first apex either
He was on a different line to the 'mid pack'. As far as I can see he made the first apex.


he kind of went straight from along Vettel, tried to hit the first apex while carrying way to much speed
He was on the racing line until he closed in too fast on the car in front of
him.


lost the back because he tried to turn in and corrected it cutting over the second part of the chicane.
He took avoiding action so as not to run into the back of the slower car in front of him. He was suprised at how slow the other cars were taking the situation and took avoiding action.

The only time that he 'corrected' any oversteer was to settle the back of the car after going over the rumble strip. The move offline was obviously deliberate. Not a result of 'out of control oversteer'.

[ioan]

He was on a different line to the 'mid pack'. As far as I can see he made the first apex.

If he would have made the first apex than he would have been on the right direction to go for the 2nd apex, this wasn't however the case.

[Shifter]

Just popping into this thread to say, yes, yes he deserved the penalty. As a driver I wouldn't have hesitated at all to take my foot off the throttle just long enough to let Vettel back by before re-joining the circuit.

[ioan]

He took avoiding action so as not to run into the back of the slower car in front of him. He was suprised at how slow the other cars were taking the situation and took avoiding action.

I don't remember Lewis saying that! Any link to an article where he states that?!
he did however say that he lost the back of the car!


The only time that he 'corrected' any oversteer was to settle the back of the car after going over the rumble strip. The move offline was obviously deliberate. Not a result of 'out of control oversteer'.

:laugh:

This is priceless, and pathetic too! The guy actually says he lost the back of the car and had to cut the chicane as a result, however the fanboys are arguing that it wasn't the case!

You crack me up man. :rotflmao:

[trumperZ06]

As I see it , Lewis had passed Sebastien at the entry , and then had to take evasive action to avoid a collision with the next car ahead in the chicane .

This fact gives Lewis his stance in the issue of whether Vettel should have been allowed past to retake the position .


However , the fact that Lewis entered the corner with that much more speed , so as to have to avoid a car that was ahead , indicates that he was unlikely to be able to negotiate the turn , as a result of the maneouvre , and thus used the run-off area to gain advantage to make the move .
His mentioning that the rear end started to step out also indicates the corner was taken too fast .


In that situation , one would imagine him immediately talking to the pits for advice . Ron would speak to Charlie , if , as it seems , it wasn't clear to him , and talks between the stewards and Charlie would be initiated .
That's not an easy moment , for if Lewis gets too far ahead of Vettel , as happened , and is deemed to have gained advantage , swapping places becomes much more of a penalty than a drive-through , especially if another rival gets around Vettel .

In the end , it would have been better to drop the position than start the discussion at all , as a drive-through was the only option the stewards had to penalize the infraction .
It was dump 5 seconds letting Vettel through , or risk a drive-through .

5 seconds might have had him still gain a few points .


Hamilton is a hell of a driver , but needs to get a firm grip on his mouth .
He's showing his rivals his weakness .

His big head is fragile .

:D Good read Bagwam...

LH clearly completes the pass, his corner entry is fine... but he is overtaking the car in front of him at such speed that he has to take an evasive line to avoid contact.


As the Speed TV (on Fox) commentators said...

"LH didn't gain position over Vettel by cutting the chicane... the pass was already completed...", therefore no penalty should have been assessed.

[100%hondafan]

hamilton got the postion as he went in deep while vettel braked as you should hamilton didnt noing he could straightline it there for okay he came across in front he was going in far to fast and had to cut if he hadnt gone in that fast then vettel would have still been alongside and racing him rookie error from mclaren and hamilton should have let him back bye.

[F1boat]

:D Good read Bagwam...

LH clearly completes the pass, his corner entry is fine... but he is overtaking the car in front of him at such speed that he has to take an evasive line to avoid contact.


As the Speed TV (on Fox) commentators said...

"LH didn't gain position over Vettel by cutting the chicane... the pass was already completed...", therefore no penalty should have been assessed.

The penalty is for advantage and not a place. If it was a place, maybe it'd have been stop/go penalty.

[gravity]

This is priceless, and pathetic too! The guy actually says he lost the back of the car and had to cut the chicane as a result, however the fanboys are arguing that it wasn't the case!

I wasn't referring to written/reported comments. I was referring to the video u provided the link to. Have u watched it?

For you to use the word "fanboy" to describe anyone else in this forum is a case of pot calling the kettle black! Hahaha

[ioan]

I wasn't referring to written/reported comments. I was referring to the video u provided the link to. Have u watched it?

For you to use the word "fanboy" to describe anyone else in this forum is a case of pot calling the kettle black! Hahaha

You don't know me, so keep it civilized.

As for your views on the video, you're free to express them, however the driver in that car knows better what exactly he was doing.

[gravity]

You don't know me, so keep it civilized.


Our aquantance is hardly relevant in my comments.

I was replying to your comments which in turn were about my comments.

How was it not civilised?

[Garry Walker]

This is actually quite funny to see LEW1S fanboys defending him, do you have no honour, dignity, honesty or pride at all? Are you really like your idol is :D ?


the penalty was a bit harsh.

1. he had clearly passed him as they entered the chicane, and avoided crashing into the driver ahead ( which would have been the car in consideration for taking advantage off) casing him to loose time to that car and avoiding crashing into him.

The only reason LEW1S had passed Vettel was because he decided not to bother braking for the corner. Maybe he saw a red light somewhere and it confused the poor boy again.



2. If at all it was deemed by the stewards to be an infractrion, why was he not radio'd to let Vettel repass. Both Mclaren and Hamilton saw nothing wrong with the move,and I'm sure it is only after some dubious protest by STR that after a number of laps, they issued a penalty.
They also saw nothing wrong with having 800 pages of another teams data.


Bad call against Hamilton.

He passes Vettel and cuts the chicane to avoid an incident with the car in front.
He almost crashed into the car in front of him, because he approached the corner with crazy speed and was never going to make it. If he had braked properly, he would have had no danger of crashing into the car ahead.
They should have put a wall there, wonder what LEW1S had done then.


Lewis explains it pretty well in this article:
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=35208

Sorry, I can't quote it as it is a copy proof site.

No it isn`t :P

[ioan]

No it isn`t :P

How is it done then? I can only select all the text on the page. :(

[truefan72]

geez ioan you call someone pathetic, the person responds correctly then you accuse them of not being civilized. Get a grip

argue your points without unnecessary insults or remarks towards the poster like 99% of all others do.

[Valve Bounce]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24c2GVlP2Ck

He hits the first apex which suggests Ron is correct that Lewis passed Vettel and completed the move before the chicane

Yeah! but as a result, he was going too fast and could not take the corner; in so doing he gained an advantage. I do blame his pits for not telling him immediately to concede the place and let Vettel by. It would have taken Lewis less than a minute to re-pass Vettel.

[djparky]

totally fair- LH gained an advantage by straight lining the run off area- if it had been a gravel trap he's have either beached the car or done sufficient damage to render it undriveable-

part of the problem with modern F1 tracks is that there is no punishment for making mistakes- I'm not suggesting that there should be concrete barriers right next to the track- but these mile wide tarmac run off's can't just be used as part of the track

[ArrowsFA1]

They should have fined them during the race?!
Or you were hinting that they should have disqualified Kimi because the team didn't remove the lose exhaust pipe?!
Neither. IMHO the exhaust pipe was a potential danger and the stewards should have called him in for Ferrari to remove it. Charlie Whiting apparently thought there was no danger so we have to accept his decision.

It would have been a nice "an eye for an eye" in exchange for Lewy's (fully deserved) drive through penalty, isn't it?! :rolleyes:
It has nothing to do with "an eye for an eye". One decision is not dependent on another. They are two entirely seperate incidents. However, there is a general lack of consistency, something which I thought may have been addressed by the appointment of a permanent steward a while ago. That permanent steward, it seems, is no longer in place. Instead we hear (http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_3726064,00.html) that Max Mosley's personal representative at GPs, and a consultant to the FIA, 'led' the stewards when they studied footage of the Hamilton incident.

Your problem is that McLaren isn't the superior machine it was last season (mostly due to spying on the best team) and this shows that Hamilton is a driver like any other.
Time will tell if Hamilton is a driver like any other, or whether he is truly exceptional, but that is neither the issue nor any problem.

[ioan]

Neither. IMHO the exhaust pipe was a potential danger and the stewards should have called him in for Ferrari to remove it. Charlie Whiting apparently thought there was no danger so we have to accept his decision.

I did a little calculation on the other thread and the result was that the broken part of that exhaust pipe has a maximum weight of around 60 grams (and a minimum of 45 grams). About the weight of 10 A4 sized paper sheets.
First I thought they were wrong and it was dangerous not to remove it, however after a bit of maths it became clear that it wasn't a danger to anyone

[Garry Walker]

How is it done then? I can only select all the text on the page. :(

Oh, that was my way too. I am no PC expert :D

[ioan]

Oh, that was my way too. I am no PC expert :D

And me thinking you had some secret solution to that problem. :(

[janneppi]

How is it done then? I can only select all the text on the page. :(
- Copy text on clipboard
- Paste it on Notepad (for example)
- Edit text in Notepad
- Copy text in Notepad
- Paste text in Message box

Easy as baking a pie. ;)

[ioan]

- Copy text on clipboard
- Paste it on Notepad (for example)
- Edit text in Notepad
- Copy text in Notepad
- Paste text in Message box

Easy as baking a pie. ;)

And would take about as much time too! ;)

[Daniel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24c2GVlP2Ck

He hits the first apex which suggests Ron is correct that Lewis passed Vettel and completed the move before the chicane

You need to understand that the "move" includes staying in front and staying ON the track. I could have passed Vettel into that corner. I would have ended up off the track but by your definition I would have passed him. In a physical sense Lewis did pass Vettel but in a racing sense he had not.

[SGWilko]

Easy as baking a pie. ;)

:rotflmao: Easy as pie, or piece of cake.

I can now see how you think some stuff us 'stiff upper lip' Brit's write is insulting. You just don't 'get' the lingo.

Bungalow?

Shame.

[Garry Walker]

And me thinking you had some secret solution to that problem. :(

Dude, I can barely turn the PC on :D

[janneppi]

:rotflmao: Easy as pie, or piece of cake.

I can now see how you think some stuff us 'stiff upper lip' Brit's write is insulting. You just don't 'get' the lingo.

Bungalow?

Shame.
No, as I wrote, easy as baking a pie.
Both require following a procedure and aren't done in a second.

[SGWilko]

No, as I wrote, easy as baking a pie.
Both require following a procedure and aren't done in a second.

Not much to go wrong with copy & paste. What sort of pie are you baking? are you making your own pastry, or do you buy ready rolled? If it's an ale pie, don't let the pastry get soggy. ;)

Are we comparing fruit again?

[markabilly]

Now all you really needed to say was:

'Lewis speaks out'

but no, much like Danica P., you had to keep going on with ...... yada yada yada Koolaid yada

Okay. Like Danica P., Lewis speaks out: "That’s what they do: they build you up and then they break you down, but they can’t break me. :beer:

There’s a lot of crap coming out in the papers. I’m here to race and I don’t want all this stuff. But I’m very strong mentally and my belief in my own ability is stronger than ever and there’s nothing that can break me.....yada yada yada........"
:beer:
Okay kick back and have another :beer:

[DezinerPaul]

The guy is such an ego maniac, that his big head will be his downfall. Of course he deserved it! All he had to do was think first!

[SGWilko]

The guy is such an ego maniac, that his big head will be his downfall. Of course he deserved it! All he had to do was think first!

I imagine he did think, and was likely thinking he needed to make up as many places as possible in as short sapce of time as possible.

It's all part of learning, and will stand him in good stead for the future.