Top Gear!

[Daniel]

I thought the last two episodes were just poor.

[Powered by Cosworth]

It's been poor for a long time. Even with the new format, the first 4-5 seasons were pretty good, then people latched on to the challenges and it all turned bad.

[patnicholls]

Folks,

I've merged the thread started today into this one.

Pat

[Mark]

I enjoyed the Bolivia episode but I do agree that it would be nice if it wasn't so obviously staged.

There hasn't been a 'race' for a good while, i.e. car vs public transport/boat/plane etc. The last one was Japan wasn't it?

[Bezza]

Poor episode I agree to finish on.

Some good bits, the "news" was good this time, proper car debate - and Clarkson's review of the dreadful X6 was excellent. Other than that, poor, and I'm a huge fan.

I think there will be changes come the next series. A new reasonably priced car entirely, maybe no more guests at all except the odd F1 driver??

[MrJan]

I enjoyed the Bolivia episode but I do agree that it would be nice if it wasn't so obviously staged.

There hasn't been a 'race' for a good while, i.e. car vs public transport/boat/plane etc. The last one was Japan wasn't it?

Unless you count the 50s episode with Clarkson on Tornado.

This series has largely been s***e, Bolivia was good for the shots of the Camina del Muerte (sp??) but I tire of the same old crap like setting fire to Hammonds truck etc. Mind you May did actually look genuinely pissed off when JC rammed him.

[wedge]

South American challenge was good only because the natural banter between the threesome had been missing for quite a while. Winding up James May and being in a strop is a good sign.

[Mark]

The problem is that, given all the hours of stuff they've now done, what's left to do? They've done the races, expeditions, cheap car challenges, build a car etc all before and there isn't much original left to do.

And personally I find the 'car show' elements, i.e. were one of them reviews the latest supercar to be quite dull. The larking about is what Top Gear is all about, it's a pity we don't have Fifth Gear any more to be the 'proper' car programme.

[Daniel]

well they could always review normal cars

[wedge]

it's a pity we don't have Fifth Gear any more to be the 'proper' car programme.

Yep, really miss the Plato vs Needell shootouts

[Daniel]

Henners, the problem with last nights show was that they'd done it before. Do you not remember their previous we've run out of money before?

[Drew]

I'm surprised nobody's complained about the massive environmental impact and waste of bbc licence fee money of the BMW xwhogivesadamn feature.

[Captain VXR]

I found the X6 review hilarious and for once they had an interesting interview, the last two episodes of the season, for me, were the best

[MrJan]

I simply can't agree with that VXR, it's been a poor series with each episode as mediocre as the one which preceeded it.

The X6 review was certainly not hilarious, mainly because we've seen Clarkson asking his stupid questions in a review before. When they did it with the Festa in the shopping centre I found it funny, when it was the Twingo I found it amusing and when it was the X6 I found it limp.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I think if you like Clarkson, you will love the show, and if you don't like the guy much, you wont. The stunts change, but the premise and juvenile antics don't change. I personally love that humour and irreverence. IT isn't supposed to be serious, and thank god they are rarely serious.

[Mark]

Henners, the problem with last nights show was that they'd done it before. Do you not remember their previous we've run out of money before?

Yep, they did exactly the same thing last year as I recall.

[Mark]

I'm surprised nobody's complained about the massive environmental impact and waste of bbc licence fee money of the BMW xwhogivesadamn feature.

I did think that. But I also thought, well perhaps he was there for other reasons anyway. Would he really fly to Australia just to try out the glove box? :p . Was it even the same car or just another one with the numberplates swapped over?

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I laughed for about 5minutes when Hammond crashed his skateboard into the Christmas tree.

[Drew]

I did think that. But I also thought, well perhaps he was there for other reasons anyway. Would he really fly to Australia just to try out the glove box? :p . Was it even the same car or just another one with the numberplates swapped over?

I thought the same thing, he must have been there for other reasons, because there's no way the BBC would be able to justify flying him all the way round the world for a few seconds in each place.

[UltimateDanGTR]

The Top Gear Bolivia special was very good, though the last few series havnt been as enjoyable as the previous ones. Top Gear remains a good entertaining show with the inclusions of cars, but we have seen better from TG. I think the producers have realised this and we may see a more 'car based' show in the future, with less scripted stuff.

[52Paddy]

I think the producers have realised this and we may see a more 'car based' show in the future, with less scripted stuff.

If they've run out of ideas for entertainment, then I doubt we'll see a revert back to the old school show. That wouldn't bring in any more viewers. They're probably on the way to demise unless they come up with a bright new plan. Or just a new plan. :s

[Daniel]

I thought the same thing, he must have been there for other reasons, because there's no way the BBC would be able to justify flying him all the way round the world for a few seconds in each place.
They probably filmed it when they were out there earlier last year.

[Langdale Forest]

The Bolivia special was an epic, as always.

[Langdale Forest]

Today, I got the new TopGear magazine, the new car guide had many stupid errors, to start with all the SUVs were referred to a 'station wagons'. The BMW X5 is shown to be in insurance group 1, then the Lexus RX has no airbags! :eek:

There are lots of other errors as well.

[Langdale Forest]

The new Top Gear series starts on 27th June. :)

[Daniel]

I've just realised again just how much I dislike Clarkson and Hammond. May's volcano truck segment is good though

[Alfa Fan]

This celebrity bit is absolute rubbish.

[Langdale Forest]

The Reliant Robin bit at the end was helarious! :rotflmao:

Weren't they supposed to be making Top Gear a more 'sensible' programme? :rolleyes:

[Mark]

The Reliant Robin bit at the end was helarious! :rotflmao:

Weren't they supposed to be making Top Gear a more 'sensible' programme? :rolleyes:

A good episode to start with. Although I do always find the supercar tests at the start a little tiresome. And of course the 'Lets invite a lot of people along' thing has been done before.

[306 Cosworth]

The celebrity bit was abit rubbish, but the Reliant part was pretty funny and Mays volcano bit was quite spectacular to be honest, and quite brave!

[christophulus]

I've never really been a fan of the Reasonably Priced Car, I don't really care about celebrities coming on to plug their book or TV show or whatever. That aside, it was a pretty good opener.

Would've loved a go in the volcano truck too :)

[Mark]

I've never really been a fan of the Reasonably Priced Car, I don't really care about celebrities coming on to plug their book or TV show or whatever. That aside, it was a pretty good opener.

Would've loved a go in the volcano truck too :)

Quite. I disliked when they started showing clips of whatever film the actor was trying to promote. It's Top Gear, it's not Tonight with Jonathan Ross!

[MrMetro]

I didn't mind last nights episode, it was a good opening episode. much better than the, imo, all of the previous series episodes

[UltimateDanGTR]

the point of each segment last night seemed to be fairly serious. the execution of each bit varied. Clarkson still managed to d*ck about, and actually the 'reliant robbin rolling over' joke got tiresome after it happened about 3 times.

James May's volcanoe drive was good, and actually they did a good montage for the chevy lacetti send off. the party thing for various guests wasnt great, although people's reactions to louis spence was quite humurous.

[Captain VXR]

I liked it, the Bentley hot lap was funny and totally unexpected

[UltimateDanGTR]

I liked it, the Bentley hot lap was funny and totally unexpected

yes, having watched ITV's football coverage for the last 2 weeks the hyundai football mickey take was rather funny! the vuvuzuela car radio stunt with the stig was good as well.

[donKey jote]

it was ok I guess... no more, no less :)

[Mark]

A couple of the papers suggested this may be the last series of Top Gear as we know it. Clarkson, May and Hammond are apparently getting the boot in favour of a younger setup. Much like the 'One Show', I reckon the trio will be heading for another channel. Of course this is all rumour in the tabloid press, but its quite sad all the same if it turns out to be true IMO.


Well they've been saying the same thing for years now, but it remains BBC2's highest rated show. It works because of those three, if they changed presenters it'd fall flat. But I do agree the format is a little tired now.



I do enjoy the show and if I wanted a boring consumer show which tests a Ford Focus around town and talks about storage space and fuel consumption, I'm welcome to tune into Fifth Gear on Channel Five.

Except you can't because they've axed it.

[martinbalmer]

Except you can't because they've axed [Fifth Gear].

There is a new series on at the moment I believe.

[wedge]

Same old tosh

Only worth watching 10mins for the mandatory performance car review and then its the usual '3 men in shed go pissing about' which has well and truly run its course.

[Daniel]

Someone's misplaced the daily mail forum shortcut on their pc it seems

[wedge]

Someone's misplaced the daily mail forum shortcut on their pc it seems

If you think I a member of the Mary Whitehouse Fan Club/Appreciation Society then you've got another thing coming.

I still look forward to TG, especially during the winter/motorsport off-season as its the only thing worth watching on a Sunday evening but each episode is like a box of chocolates: will it, preferably IMO, feature 3 mates genuinely having a laugh or will it feature 3 presenters aiming for cheap laughs, playing caricatures of themselves and pretending to be village idiots.

TG has lost its way for a while now and even the TG team have been aware of it: http://transmission.blogs.topgear.com/2009/12/20/series-14-where-were-at/

[Daniel]

If you think I a member of the Mary Whitehouse Fan Club/Appreciation Society then you've got another thing coming.

I still look forward to TG, especially during the winter/motorsport off-season as its the only thing worth watching on a Sunday evening but each episode is like a box of chocolates: will it, preferably IMO, feature 3 mates genuinely having a laugh or will it feature 3 presenters aiming for cheap laughs, playing caricatures of themselves and pretending to be village idiots.

TG has lost its way for a while now and even the TG team have been aware of it: http://transmission.blogs.topgear.com/2009/12/20/series-14-where-were-at/
TG is still massively popular. TG will never please everyone so perhaps you just need to get over it :)

[wedge]

It's not just me.

There's plenty who feel TG has lost its way/standards: http://forums.finalgear.com/top-gear-episode-discussions/

[Daniel]

I never said it was just you, TG is still the Beeb's biggest earner so millions will disagree with tou.

[reidy_fan]

TG needs a attractive female presenter, bit of a petrolhead. am i the only 1 that thinks V B-H is getting sexier as she gets older

[Allyc85]

T am i the only 1 that thinks V B-H is getting sexier as she gets older

yep ;)

[wedge]

Was it just me but shouldn't they got Klaus Ludwig, Klaus Niedzwiedz and Steve Soper in those cars in the 190, M3 and Cossie?


I never said it was just you, TG is still the Beeb's biggest earner so millions will disagree with tou.

Never knew BBC made money from illegal downloads :D

[MrJan]

TG needs a attractive female presenter, bit of a petrolhead. am i the only 1 that thinks V B-H is getting sexier as she gets older

She's still a yay from me.....not for presenting on TG though :D

[wedge]

VBH is such tease :D

[Mark in Oshawa]

VBH? ummm no...not on Top Gear. The female presenter I want has to be able to drive...get Sabine Schmitz in there....that is a lady who knows her cars and has a wicked sense of humour. Her lapping the ring in a Transit Van was one of the best episodes in the last few seasons...

[MrJan]

Am I the only one who finds the bits with Sabine Schmidt (??) a bit forced? I know she's not doing it in her first language but I'm not convinced she's very good at the telly stuff. Also she's really not as hot as people make out, so many blokes are so desperate to find an attractive woman racing cars that they force it, that's why there are weirdos who find Danica Patrick sexy :D

[Mark in Oshawa]

Am I the only one who finds the bits with Sabine Schmidt (??) a bit forced? I know she's not doing it in her first language but I'm not convinced she's very good at the telly stuff. Also she's really not as hot as people make out, so many blokes are so desperate to find an attractive woman racing cars that they force it, that's why there are weirdos who find Danica Patrick sexy :D

I think Sabine is pretty natural. You listen to her giving the motorcycle dude she passes in the Transit what for, and you realize she has a great sense of humour.

As for her hotness...well she is the girl next door...if you live in Nurburg I guess...

She looks alright in tight jeans, but she isn't your typical female beauty. She is a tomboy....

I just liked her style....

Seriously though, I don't think Top Gear works with a woman on the show. The magic of this show is the chemistry between the 3 blokes... It isn't about anything else really. You see the evidence of the Top Gear phenomena when you try to watch the Aussie version of the show and realize it isn't even close to the same...

[Mark]

Yep. Because I think that most blokes, given no work commitments would like to go cocking about in cars with their mates.

[gloomyDAY]

Holy crap! Top Gear is back?!!

*downloading*

[Dave B]

Rubens Barrichello in the reasonably priced car this week.

[Bezza]

TG needs a attractive female presenter, bit of a petrolhead. am i the only 1 that thinks V B-H is getting sexier as she gets older

Why does it need an attractive female presenter? Just because all other programmes, including the news, seem to have to have a mandatory attractive female - doesn't mean the best programme on TV needs one. It is great because it doesn't fall in line with other programmes, the three blokes are great together - a dumb blonde as eye candy really wouldn't work.

The day Top Gear employs a woman ahead of Hammond, Clarkson or May will be a very sad day, and pretty much the end of Top Gear.

And Vicki Butler-Henderson?! She is not attractive, not a very good presenter, not a particularly great driver - it is a mystery to me how she has ended up on TV car shows personally.

Top Gear will keep going. This weekend's episode was excellent.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Yep. Because I think that most blokes, given no work commitments would like to go cocking about in cars with their mates.

We would if we had the money and time as well...

The trips these guys take and the competitions they hold are what guys would do if they could afford to....or at least some of them are.

The abuse, the taking the pi$$ out of each other is all classic British humour and that is what makes this show unique. The cars are almost an afterthought...

[UltimateDanGTR]

I enjoyed watching (belatedly obviously due to the football) the last episode of top gear. rubens and rupert grint were both good guests, and the 3 way car test was good even with the wedding bit, but I didnt need to see Jeremy Clarkson try to convince the audience he'd lost his trousers and then try and be funny with gaffer tape.

[wedge]

not a particularly great driver - it is a mystery to me how she has ended up on TV car shows personally.

Like Jezza and May she was a journalist before she ended up on TG & FG. I'm sure you will be pleased to know that she started off Max Power!

Even if she was a part time race driver you don't have to be great driver to be a good journalist. Writers like Mark Hales and Chris Harris arguably aren't particularly great drivers but they know how to communicate to the audience with a pen.

[Daniel]

Like Jezza and May she was a journalist before she ended up on TG & FG. I'm sure you will be pleased to know that she started off Max Power!

Even if she was a part time race driver you don't have to be great driver to be a good journalist. Writers like Mark Hales and Chris Harris arguably aren't particularly great drivers but they know how to communicate to the audience with a pen.
Yeah but the people you've listed aren't ANNOYING like VBH.

[wedge]

Comes down to the eye of the beholder. I personally don't find her particularly annoying.

[MrJan]

I don't find VBH particularly annoying, she can drive a car better than either of Clarkson and Hammond and she acts like she's filthy.

I don't think that she should be a TG presenter but I've got nothing against her.

[Mark]

She's good on the Gadget Show but I just don't think she'd fit in on Top Gear!

[wedge]

I think if they replaced Hammond (I'd like to see that), and felt the need for a female presenter, I'd vote for Suzi Perry. :)

She's a biker

[Mark in Oshawa]

Who the hell is VBH? In any rate, Top Gear isnt about how good a driver the boys are, they are adequate but the Stig is the guy who really tests the cars for their laps and such.

This show is about the chemistry between the 3 lads. Mess with it at your peril. This show was not a big deal until it stumbled onto this format and the leadership of Clarkson. You screw with that, you could kill the goose. I think the BBC are smarter than that...

[Daniel]

Who the hell is VBH? In any rate, Top Gear isnt about how good a driver the boys are, they are adequate but the Stig is the guy who really tests the cars for their laps and such.

This show is about the chemistry between the 3 lads. Mess with it at your peril. This show was not a big deal until it stumbled onto this format and the leadership of Clarkson. You screw with that, you could kill the goose. I think the BBC are smarter than that...
Vicki Butler Henderson

[Mark in Oshawa]

Vicki Butler Henderson

In Canada I haven't heard of her...but there ya go. I didn't know who Clarkson, May and Hammond were either until I saw my first clip of Top Gear...

[Dave B]

Vicki Butler Henderson
I've still got scratch marks on my arm from that woman ;)






(Sadly, and in case her lawyers are reading, it's not as interesting as you might think :p )

[Alfa Fan]

And how ridiculous is forum time? 13 minutes ahead now :o

[MrJan]

Fantastic to see TG do a serious piece. After the tosh with Hammond in the Toerag I was a bit miffed but that was a really nice piece about Senna.

[306 Cosworth]

Awesome episode tonight, best one ever I think! All then features were just brilliant. How good was Tom Cruise in that Kia too!

Senna film was just mesmerising :up: Top Gear at its very best!

[Drew]

Fixed. I couldn't think about anything else when the star in a reasonably priced car results came up. Blatantly fixed they stuffed up their gear changes for a start, just to please their big egos, grrrrrr. </rant>

[306 Cosworth]

The footage shown for their lap times isn't taken from just 1 lap, they do several laps and add the best clips together. They don't have 5 or 6 cameras out covering the track, usually only 1 or 2.

[Drew]

The footage shown for their lap times isn't taken from just 1 lap, they do several laps and add the best clips together. They don't have 5 or 6 cameras out covering the track, usually only 1 or 2.

So you're saying when they show the final lap, that isn't actually their final lap? I still think its fixed, either way.

[306 Cosworth]

Pretty much.

[shurik]

Can't believe that Tom Cruise did the lap faster than Rubens. Think they cut off a second because Tom otherwise won't participate or for not getting sued by scientologists.

About the Senna part, it's brilliant, and I just wish we ever see F1 as good as it was back then

[VkmSpouge]

A great piece on Ayrton Senna. Showing some classic clips, some good little interviews with F1 drivers. I like Lewis Hamilton trying out that 80s McLaren and Martin Brundle's insight was great.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Before anyone thinks Cruise wouldn't have turned a fast time, he did a few racing schools and raced a little. When Shooting the "Colour of Money" with the late Paul Newman, Cruise was turned on to racing by PLN and apparently he was not bad at it...but of course, likely didn't want to keep doing it bad enough.

So maybe he is pretty fast.

I haven't seen this episode yet....I have to watch My Top Gear in the most odd places...lol

[MrJan]

Can't believe that Tom Cruise did the lap faster than Rubens. Think they cut off a second because Tom otherwise won't participate or for not getting sued by scientologists.

Rubens did a lap in the Suzuki, Cruise was in the Kia. I think that the Kia is about 4-5 seconds per lap quicker.

[christophulus]

Loved it. Slightly sceptical about the lap times, but they were great guests, a lot better than some of the ones they get on.

[wedge]

F1 hogs the limelight enough as it is. I Wonder if TG have done a feature on Colin McCrae's title winning Scooby? Autocar and Chris Harris recently did features.



Before anyone thinks Cruise wouldn't have turned a fast time, he did a few racing schools

Remember hearing a similar thing with Cameron Diaz.

[306 Cosworth]

F1 hogs the limelight enough as it is. I Wonder if TG have done a feature on Colin McCrae's title winning Scooby? Autocar and Chris Harris recently did features.




Remember hearing a similar thing with Cameron Diaz.

Who's Colin McCrae?

Hate it when people can't even spell someones name right, particularly someone as well known as Colin McRae!

[Daniel]

Who's Colin McCrae?

Hate it when people can't even spell someones name right, particularly someone as well known as Colin McRae!
I wonder if that Colin McCrae is related to Colin McRea?

[Dave B]

It's ok, you should see all the threads about "McClaren" on the F1 forum :erm:

[KILOHMUNNS]

Not sure if anyone else has been there but while on holiday I went to Beaulieu National Motor Museum (it's in Hampshire on the edge of the New Forest), they have just opened a new exhibition of the Top Gear cars. The cars are just how they left them after filming.

Please see my photostream below (sorry the pics aren't the best as I've got a new camera and didn't quite get the settings right)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/28372122@N05/sets/72157624537431425/

It's well worth a visit and we were surprised at how recent the cars were.

[wedge]

Who's Colin McCrae?

Hate it when people can't even spell someones name right, particularly someone as well known as Colin McRae!

Wow, you must be a perfect at touch typing and remembers to proof read.

What do you want? Medal? certificate?

[Alfa Fan]

Colin McCrae is not likely to be a typo though... given you capitalised the second C?

[donKey jote]

Never knew BBC made money from illegal downloads :D :uhoh: :p

[wedge]

Colin McCrae is not likely to be a typo though... given you capitalised the second C?

It seems I must be the only one who can do retarded things when trying to type quick.

[52Paddy]

It seems I must be the only one who can do retarded things when trying to type quick.

Take a few tokes bud :s mokin:

[wedge]

Take a few tokes bud :s mokin:

Dude, it's not me who needs a few tokes.

I'm not the one being anal over an error. It's not as if I defecated on Colin McRae's grave.

[Mark]

Seems that The Stig is wanting the publish an autobiography, but the BBC is trying to block it
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-11139252

[Brown, Jon Brow]

We all knew anyway that one of the Stigs was Ben Collins.

[Dave B]

The BBC have just lost the case, and Collins' identity is out in the open - not that it was ever in doubt.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-11151777

[Mark]

Well there's a surprise...
Now when Perry McCarthy revealed himself as the first Stig he was effectively sacked and replaced with Ben Collins, I wonder if they will do the same again?

[Dave B]

The Stig is dead, long live the Stig - that sort of thing...

[Mark]

Meet the new Stig, same as the old Stig?

[BDunnell]

I'm not normally one to criticise the BBC, being as it is a great institution, but I think this court case represents an astonishing waste of licence-payers' money, even if the sum involved is a drop in the ocean.

[GridGirl]

Of course we all knew who it was. Ben Collins book will be a best seller this Christmas. I'd buy it.

I vote for Green Stig next series. :)

[AndyRAC]

Maybe the next Stig should actually be Stig, as in Blomqvist.....

[Drew]

Well there's a surprise...
Now when Perry McCarthy revealed himself as the first Stig he was effectively sacked and replaced with Ben Collins, I wonder if they will do the same again?

Surely there would be a clause in his contract that states if he reveals himself, the BBC can sack him? Or something similar. The whole point of the Stig is that remains anonymous.

[rah]

Meh bound to happen sooner or later. Any idea when the next series starts? I have heard a rumour about the next special challenge show they do.

[gloomyDAY]

What's the problem?

Just hire a new Stig.

[Mark]

What's the problem?

Just hire a new Stig.

Which is what will most likely happen.
Ben Collins would know fine well what happened to Perry McCarthy after he published a book, does he know something we don't about the future of Top Gear?!

[wedge]

What's the problem?

Just hire a new Stig.

Hopefully, in pink suit, helmet and fluffy tail

[Mark in Oshawa]

We all knew it was Ben, but the least he could have done is waited until the series was done, or left the show and THEN went public....

The fun of the Stig for me was really being able to suspend belief that he was Ben Collins and he was instead some mythical gear head who did all what was described. Silly? YES..but entertaining...

[Mark]

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/news/a274465/clarkson-top-gear-is-damaged-but-not-out.html

Clarkson has confirmed that the current Stig will not feature in the new series of Top Gear - unsurprisingly.

No word if it'll just be a new Stig or something entirely different.

[ArrowsFA1]

We all knew it was Ben...
Ben Collis isn't/wasn't the only Stig. They've always had more than one person playing the part.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Ben Collis isn't/wasn't the only Stig. They've always had more than one person playing the part.

Wasn't it Tom Chilton who drove the Bugatti as it was his daddys car?

[DazzlaF1]

Ben Collis isn't/wasn't the only Stig. They've always had more than one person playing the part.

I remember reading that the BBC had as many as FOUR people playing the Stig with actors taking Collins' place for certain areas like for instance the Blackpool "one tank" race where he was sent as backup in case the 3 never made it.

[Mark]

Certain marques did send their own drivers when Top Gear wanted to do a 'hot lap' test, both for insurance to avoid damage to the car, and to make sure that they are represented in the best light!

And we all know that when 'The Stig' did a lap in a Reanult F1 car it was actually Heikki Kovalinen.

[Mark in Oshawa]

They need a Stig....his "Character" is a useful comic foil. Watching the "Race" across London and watching the bits with the Stig crossing the city on the bus and tube was priceless stuff.....

So if Ben Collins don't want the gig, someone will wear the uni of the "tame" racing driver....

[Mark]

Of course they will need to make it clear that the 'new' Stig is not Ben Collins. But they've killed the Stig before, no reason they can't do it again. But Clarkson has hinted they might go for something different than another Stig.

[janneppi]

But Clarkson has hinted they might go for something different than another Stig.

Some say they ran out of good "some say jokes.." years ago and they should be done with it already, all we know is that it just might be better to have a real driver/drivers instead of helmet and overalls. ;)

[Mark in Oshawa]

Of course they will need to make it clear that the 'new' Stig is not Ben Collins. But they've killed the Stig before, no reason they can't do it again. But Clarkson has hinted they might go for something different than another Stig.


The Stig is the 4th member of the show...and now that they will change the show to reflect he is gone, that is fine..but I do think a comic foil of some sort mixed with their evaluator wouldn't be a bad thing.

I think in the end, they wont stray far from the concept.....but you likely will right, it wont be the Stig...

As for the comment the "some say" jokes got old...I don't think so....if Clarkson had a better writers there is endless amounts of good lines that could have been taken out...corny yes, funny yes....part of the show.....YES.

[Bezza]

Ben Collins is an absolute prat. What a sell out.

He was a NOTHING driver until Top Gear and now he is having a pop at Clarkson and the BBC?! They made him who he is.

He is a bloody stunt driver, that is all.

[Mark]

Ben Collins is an absolute prat. What a sell out.

He was a NOTHING driver until Top Gear and now he is having a pop at Clarkson and the BBC?! They made him who he is.

He is a bloody stunt driver, that is all.

I would tend to agree. It's not like he was a household name before Top Gear, only a few people knew who he was beforehand. I guess some don't know when they're onto a good thing!

My suspicion was that he'd intended to quit the show anyway.

[wedge]

I would tend to agree. It's not like he was a household name before Top Gear, only a few people knew who he was beforehand. I guess some don't know when they're onto a good thing!

My suspicion was that he'd intended to quit the show anyway.

With Christmas coming up he obviously wanted to join the bandwagon and make an extra bob or two with a book.

Can't imagine it would be useful reading to up and coming racers looking for sponsorship as in Perry McCarthy's though gone are the days of manually editing, cutting and pasting race reports!


Ben Collins is an absolute prat. What a sell out.

He was a NOTHING driver until Top Gear and now he is having a pop at Clarkson and the BBC?! They made him who he is.

Saying that, the team who prepped the TG cars for the Britcar 24hrs aren't chuffed at Clarkson, et al either.

[BDunnell]

I continue to be amazed and a bit saddened about the amount of fuss being made over what is, when all is said and done, a bloke who used to appear in a white suit on a motoring programme on the TV.

[donKey jote]

But Clarkson has hinted they might go for something different than another Stig.

yey! a Stiguette !! :dozey:

[Mark]

The problem with an identifiable character is that they would then be expected to play a bigger role in the programme, and be a good presenter too. The only racing driver I've seen who would make a good presenter is Jason Plato and he's already employed at 'the other side'!

[Brown, Jon Brow]

The problem with an identifiable character is that they would then be expected to play a bigger role in the programme, and be a good presenter too. The only racing driver I've seen who would make a good presenter is Jason Plato and he's already employed at 'the other side'!

I think Coulthard and Anthony Davidson have shown that they are good on camara. But I'm not sure how a fourth presenter would work.

[MrJan]

I would tend to agree. It's not like he was a household name before Top Gear, only a few people knew who he was beforehand. I guess some don't know when they're onto a good thing!

My suspicion was that he'd intended to quit the show anyway.

The only reason he's a household name now is because he released a book. The Beeb wanted to carry on without anyone 'knowing' who he was.

I agree with Mr Dunnell though, it's sad that there is so much fuss about it.

[Cooper_S]

Is there not a Top Gear live arena show in November in which the/a Stig normally plays a prominent part.

Assuming Ben 'traitor' Collins has been relieved of his employment with Top Gear, what are the implications for the show.. a stand in Stig for the show... simply carry on without him... use it to officially kill of 'white' Stig?

I suppose it's anyone’s guess

[wedge]

I continue to be amazed and a bit saddened about the amount of fuss being made over what is, when all is said and done, a bloke who used to appear in a white suit on a motoring programme on the TV.

Goes to show how successful TG is.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I continue to be amazed and a bit saddened about the amount of fuss being made over what is, when all is said and done, a bloke who used to appear in a white suit on a motoring programme on the TV.

The Stig is more famous than most people elected to public office outside of a select few Ben. Is that a point that makes you wonder? I suppose.

Hey, I love the part and role the "Stig" played as the tame racing driver.

I don't think in retrospect they should have another. I think they need to bring in a racing driver as a staff member and just get on with it. While we loved the humour and the questions of who the Stig is, after this go around, I think they have flogged it long enough.

I also think the American's version of Top Gear shouldn't even try to have a Stig. Just get Paul Tracy and let him loose. He will thrash the hell out of a car trying to get a good lap, and entertain you the whole time with his off the cuff motor mouth.....maybe there is a gent like that on the loose with nothing to do with Nomex in his closet in the UK? Maybe an Eddie Irvine or something?

[Dave B]

Some say....

...that Channel 5 is creatively bankrupt and can only exist by ripping off ideas from other channels. Hence Fifth Gear announcing that their newest recruit is none other than Ben Collins.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/oct/01/the-stig-top-gear-channel-5

PS, I love one of the comments on the Guardian article:



Like inviting the guy inside the Mickey Mouse suit at Disneyworld to come to your kid's birthday party - but without the Mickey Mouse suit.

[Mark in Oshawa]

Some say....

...that Channel 5 is creatively bankrupt and can only exist by ripping off ideas from other channels. Hence Fifth Gear announcing that their newest recruit is none other than Ben Collins.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/oct/01/the-stig-top-gear-channel-5

PS, I love one of the comments on the Guardian article:

Fifth Gear hired Ben Collins? Man...does this ever sound sad or WHAT?

[Mark]

Some say....

...that Channel 5 is creatively bankrupt and can only exist by ripping off ideas from other channels. Hence Fifth Gear announcing that their newest recruit is none other than Ben Collins.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/oct/01/the-stig-top-gear-channel-5

PS, I love one of the comments on the Guardian article:

Ahaaa! Now it all becomes perfectly clear. He had no intention of returning to Top Gear and thus needed to reveal himself as 'The Stig' in order to gain enough publicity for his new job on Fifth Gear.

As you say, pretty crap really :s . And it's not like Fifth Gear didn't already have a pretty decent 'tame racing driver' in the shape of Jason Plato!

[Mark in Oshawa]

Ahaaa! Now it all becomes perfectly clear. He had no intention of returning to Top Gear and thus needed to reveal himself as 'The Stig' in order to gain enough publicity for his new job on Fifth Gear.

As you say, pretty crap really :s . And it's not like Fifth Gear didn't already have a pretty decent 'tame racing driver' in the shape of Jason Plato!

I would wager Plato is faster than Ben....but I suppose it would be REAL close...

[Mark]

I would agree. Plato is a touring car champion. What has Collins done?

[Mark in Oshawa]

I would agree. Plato is a touring car champion. What has Collins done?

He made a POS car go as fast as any of the F1 shoes that drove it.....

And he won some stock car championship...and run f3...so it isn't like he is a ****er....

But Plato to me is a better driver than many give him credit for....

[Mark]

It's no surprise he was fast in the Liana, but not as fast as Rubens. As he's driven that track in that car hundreds of times.

[CarlMetro]

I would think there's a couple of hundred decent racing drivers, some of them former touring car or other championship winners/contenders who will quite happily jump into the famous white suit.

The Stig is not dead, for he is rebourn....

[Hazell B]

I would agree. Plato is a touring car champion. What has Collins done?


They raced against each other in ASCAR as far as I remember.
Plato won, but Collins had a team made up of just TA lads with basic mechanical knowledge.

[Eki]

Hazell, how's the Stig...I mean Naburn?

[Mark]

Fifth Gear starts on Friday. I saw an advert last night saying it featured "The man who used to be The Stig", add a quick shot of him standing wearing coloured overalls but doing the usual Stig arms folded pose.

It's all rather pathetic.

[ArrowsFA1]

I would think there's a couple of hundred decent racing drivers, some of them former touring car or other championship winners/contenders who will quite happily jump into the famous white suit.
Given that there was always more than one Stig the character could, and always did, continue without missing a heartbeat, that is if the Stig has a heartbeat :p and if the BBC still want Stig to be a part of the show.

[donKey jote]

what's the past tense of Stig, Stag? :p

[Eki]

what's the past tense of Stig, Stag? :p

In Swedish it's stiga, steg, stigit.

[gloomyDAY]

I got tickets to USA Top Gear!

One week from tomorrow.

Have to say, the news was funny.

"Sat nav would get a temper for no reason..."

Genius :D



Funny but bad episode. We all know now that these races are set up, yet they keep going. Didn't find it entertaining at all. The 'black' Merc did seem nice though

http://moviesonlineworld.com

[Mark]

Funny but bad episode. We all know now that these races are set up, yet they keep going. Didn't find it entertaining at all. The 'black' Merc did seem nice though


Which episode? And Clarkson has explained many times that the races aren't 'set up' other than the fact that when they first devise them they know that it's going to be a very close finish - There wouldn't be any point in doing it otherwise.

PS I've deleted your ad, no adverts allowed in posts!

Hi !
I've just visited this forum. Happy to get acquainted with you. Thanks.

[Hazell B]

Hazell, how's the Stig...I mean Naburn?

Old, fat, going blind and a bit stinky :D

The past tense of Stig is 'wannabe talk show cannon fodder' I guess.
Shame, I was a fan of his when he was himself.

[veeten]

Well, just watched a "60 Minutes" interview with the whole gang. Great stuff. :)

[donKey jote]

The whole "stug" issue made me watch my first ever "fifth Gear" a couple of weeks ago.
I'm sorry I hadn't done so before... it really shows up the Top Gear trio as the buffoons they are.
I still like Top Gear mind you, specially some of the epic episodes (Alaska comes to mind), but I'll be watching both from now on: Top Gear for the schoolboy humour and fifth Gear for the auto reviews :)

[ArrowsFA1]

Top Gear presenter Jeremy Clarkson caused offence when he described a car as "speciale needs" - a play on its proper name, Ferrari F430 Speciale.
Media regulator Ofcom investigated after receiving two complaints.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11621083

Two complaints :eek: :rolleyes: Did Ofcom survive the spending review, because they must be very busy investigating all these complaints.

[Dave B]

They're being merged with Postcomm, not sure what practical effect that will have but they're pretty hopeless at the moment.

[Mark]

Looks like Top Gear is in trouble again
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/12907367



On the programme Jeremy Clarkson claimed: "Although Tesla say it'll do 200 miles, we worked out that on our track it would run out after just 55 miles."
But in a statement on its website, Tesla said the Roadster's miles per charge had been certified at 211 miles by a third party European Union (EU) test. It argued that because the car was "driven aggressively" on Top Gear the charge didn't last as long, but that if driven "mindfully" charges could last for 313 miles.



But Top Gear isn't about driving cars 'mindfully' it's about thrashing them around a test track, and I don't think they claimed otherwise! And the test is relevant as these cars will often be used as trackday cars.

[MrJan]

Why do you want a sportscar that you have to drive mindfully? If I buy a car called a Roadster then I'm gonna be thrashing the nuts off it.

[gloomyDAY]

What a bunch of dorks! Let's make a sports car, so you can drive it around like a minivan.

Tesla are going to lose this ridiculous lawsuit.

[555-04Q2]

Looks like Top Gear is in trouble again
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/12907367




But Top Gear isn't about driving cars 'mindfully' it's about thrashing them around a test track, and I don't think they claimed otherwise! And the test is relevant as these cars will often be used as trackday cars.

What a bunch of to$$ers :down: They should have to pay a shyte air tax for the air pollution the bull$#it that comes out their mouth causes.

[Daniel]

Personally I agree with Tesla. The Top Gear segment misrepresented the Tesla.

[gloomyDAY]

Personally I agree with Tesla. The Top Gear segment misrepresented the Tesla.Elaborate!

[Daniel]

Elaborate!

if I watched that video I'd imagine the Tesla Roadster to be a hugely unrealiable car which will run out of charge in no time.

The fact of the matter is that Top Gear made it look like the cars ran out of juice and needed to be recharged when in reality neither of the cars supplied ever went below 20% battery power. They also said that one of the cars had broken brakes which is apparently untrue. I can certainly understand why a small company like Tesla is fighting this and I hope they win :up:

http://www.teslavstopgear.com/

listen we all know that Top Gear like the make things up or stage things or exaggerate and I quite agree with Tesla that this is not acceptable when people may be watching and thinking that what they're seeing is a genuine review of a product.

[Malbec]

Elaborate!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/mar/30/tesla-sue-top-gear?INTCMP=SRCH

This article is more detailed and less biased.

If Top Gear pretended the Tesla had run out of batteries when it hadn't I think they'd be open to being sued successfully.

Given that Top Gear is so heavily scripted and reviews of technology Jeremy Clarkson doesn't like are so biased (like motorbikes or anything ecological) I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla is correct at all.

[BleAivano]

what's the past tense of Stig, Stag? :p

Stig (path), stigen (the path), stigar (paths), stigarna (the paths).

However if you ask me, the real stig is of course mäster himself (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV9lFCGtwMU).

[Mark in Oshawa]

Top Gear will win. I doubt highly the BBC legal types would have let Clarkson and the boys air the segment if the car didn't die under him.

Tesla may want to put their car in the best possible light, but Clarkson was driving the nuts off the thing.....and as an auto journalist he should.

Never fight with the press, they buy their ink by the barrel, and film stock by the mile. The BBC will win this...

[Daniel]

Top Gear will win. I doubt highly the BBC legal types would have let Clarkson and the boys air the segment if the car didn't die under him.

Tesla may want to put their car in the best possible light, but Clarkson was driving the nuts off the thing.....and as an auto journalist he should.

Never fight with the press, they buy their ink by the barrel, and film stock by the mile. The BBC will win this...

I disagree, Top Gear are allowed to say what they say because it makes them popular and it sells the rights overseas, not because it's all legal.

[555-04Q2]

I have to agree with the boys from Top Gear. The Tesla is pointless as are all other electric cars at the moment. Until they can do at least 600 km on a single charge and are cleaner to make, they will remain pointless. Why don't we all just get a horse or a donkey? They can at least get past 200 miles on with thousand year old technology :p :

[Mark]

The Tesla is about as pointless as the Elise, which is just as pointless. They are track cars after all, which is why the Top Gear test was a fair one.

[555-04Q2]

Well said Mark :up:

[Daniel]

Fair points, but no excuse for misrepresenting the facts. I doubt Top Gear will win the libel suit

[Mark]

Did they actually lie about the car? They said it would run out after 55 miles on their track? If it did or would have done and they can show that, then the test is fair. They are under no legal obligation to point out that "if driven normally it could manage 200 miles"

[MrJan]

Did they actually lie about the car? They said it would run out after 55 miles on their track? If it did or would have done and they can show that, then the test is fair. They are under no legal obligation to point out that "if driven normally it could manage 200 miles"

Exactly. Top Gear doesn't exist just to advertise these cars, it's not their job to show any car in it's best possible light. Did Hawk start a legal campaign when they showed the Stratos rep to be a right handful? Did Chevrolet complain when they highlighted the plasticy nature of the ZR-01? Did Ford get all uppity because TG showed that you can't get out of the GT in a car park?

And how exactly did they misrepresent facts, Daniel? If the car ran out of juice then it ran out of juice, just because it was being hammered doesn't alter the fact that it ran out of power.

[Daniel]

Did they actually lie about the car? They said it would run out after 55 miles on their track? If it did or would have done and they can show that, then the test is fair. They are under no legal obligation to point out that "if driven normally it could manage 200 miles"

They presented the piece in such a way to show that the Tesla roadster had run out of battery power which it hadn't. That's a lie as far as I'm concerned.

For the hard of understanding THE CAR DID NOT RUN OUT OF POWER!!!!! WHEN TESLA RECEIVED BOTH CARS BACK THEY HAD MORE THAN 20% POWER EACH!

[Daniel]

Exactly. Top Gear doesn't exist just to advertise these cars, it's not their job to show any car in it's best possible light. Did Hawk start a legal campaign when they showed the Stratos rep to be a right handful? Did Chevrolet complain when they highlighted the plasticy nature of the ZR-01? Did Ford get all uppity because TG showed that you can't get out of the GT in a car park?

That's all opinion. I could say that I think Mark is tall (he's not) and that's not really a lie because that could be my opinion, but if I were to say that Mark is Japanese then that would be a lie. There's a pretty clear difference and anyone not blinded by their love for Top Gear will see it.

[MrJan]

That's all opinion. I could say that I think Mark is tall (he's not) and that's not really a lie because that could be my opinion, but if I were to say that Mark is Japanese then that would be a lie. There's a pretty clear difference and anyone not blinded by their love for Top Gear will see it.

I'm not blinded by a love of Top Gear, blinded by a dislike of electric cars maybe, but not a love of TG. So it's only opinion that you can't get out of a Ford GT in a normal bay parking space?

Anyway I hadn't read the link before but having had a peak I realise that Clarkson said "Although Tesla say it'll do 200 miles, we worked out that on our track it would run out after just 55 miles." So they didn't actually say that it ran out, just that it would on their track. I fail to see how that's out of order, it's a trackday car being driven like it's on a trackday, hardly lying IMO.

Like I said before, TG isn't there to advertise the Tesla in the best way for the company. We all know that range and waiting for a charge are the problems with electric cars, and any regular viewer of the show could tell you that this would be focussed on as electric cars are generally thought of as a long way from being suitable replacements.

[Daniel]

I'm not blinded by a love of Top Gear, blinded by a dislike of electric cars maybe, but not a love of TG. So it's only opinion that you can't get out of a Ford GT in a normal bay parking space?

Anyway I hadn't read the link before but having had a peak I realise that Clarkson said "Although Tesla say it'll do 200 miles, we worked out that on our track it would run out after just 55 miles." So they didn't actually say that it ran out, just that it would on their track. I fail to see how that's out of order, it's a trackday car being driven like it's on a trackday, hardly lying IMO.

Like I said before, TG isn't there to advertise the Tesla in the best way for the company. We all know that range and waiting for a charge are the problems with electric cars, and any regular viewer of the show could tell you that this would be focussed on as electric cars are generally thought of as a long way from being suitable replacements.

No they're not obliged to advertise the Tesla, but they are obliged to be factual and not lie. Why were those 4 people pushing the car if it hadn't run out of juice?

I agree that electric cars are not feasible at the moment but that's not really relevant to this discussion.



Specifically, Top Gear misrepresented that:

The Roadster ran out of charge and had to be pushed into the Top Gear hangar by 4 men.[/*:m:319opuw2]
The Roadster’s true range is only 55 miles per charge (not 211).[/*:m:319opuw2]
One Roadster’s motor overheated and was completely immobilized as a result.[/*:m:319opuw2]
The other Roadster’s brakes were broken, rendering the car undriveable.[/*:m:319opuw2]
That neither of the two Roadsters provided to Top Gear was available for test driving due to these problems.[/*:m:319opuw2]
The fact that you yourself said that the car ran out of juice says it all about what Top Gear said about the Tesla Roadster.

I really don't see any point with arguing with people who
1. Seem to be against electric vehicles and are letting that get in the way of things that Top Gear presented as fact which weren't actually true, in fact they were lies.
2. Would like to be spooned by Clarkson and will therefore allow him to get away with lying.
3. Feel that a show that won an award for being factual should be allowed to blatantly lie.

[MrJan]

IIRC (bit difficult because it's an old episode and I haven't watched Dave in a while) the car that was pushed back into the hanger was said to have broken down, as opposed to running out of charge.

I repeat, Clarkson said "Although Tesla say it'll do 200 miles, we worked out that on our track it would run out after just 55 miles." Is that really lying? Tesla haven't actually argued over the figure so I assume not. If it's not a lie then it's as factual as needs be. Besides the point about the charge (even if you say it's 211 miles that's still not good, my car barely manages 300 miles on a tank and I think that's crap) Clarkson was raving about the car and very complimentary, far more so than with a lot of the cars that they test. Also my point about them not being feasible because of charge is relevant, as it's that aspect of the car that Clarkson concentrated on and which has caused the issue.

Besides that:
1. My dislike of electric cars doesn't change the figures, something which Tesla don't seem to have disagreed with.
2. I dislike Clarkson intently, he's a stupid Tory twunt that for some reason seems to have a lot of people who like him (the Clarkson for Prime Minister groups on Facebook make me feel sick), I just don't think it was an out and out lie,
3. Again, don't think it was a lie, but either way I'm not the one that gave the award out so why are you taking it up with me? I've never said that TG is a factual show, far from it infact.

[Daniel]

IIRC (bit difficult because it's an old episode and I haven't watched Dave in a while) the car that was pushed back into the hanger was said to have broken down, as opposed to running out of charge.

The car never broke down. Fact.

[MrJan]

The car never broke down. Fact.

Any proof then? ;) :p :

[Mark in Oshawa]

I disagree, Top Gear are allowed to say what they say because it makes them popular and it sells the rights overseas, not because it's all legal.

No, the BBC hates lawsuits and bad publicity. The boys said what they said because it is a)fair comment and b) they didn't do anything with the Tesla they didn't do with any other car.

The car is a neat piece of kit, but it has no range when some gorilla drives the crap out of it. Well anyone who has seen Top Gear knows that is exactly what will happen. Tesla Motorcar can whine all they want, they wanted that exposure and they should have and would have to be idiots not to see what would happen.

[Mark in Oshawa]

In other Top Gear news, I finally got to see an episode of the American Top Gear. The most ridiculous incubation was required to finally get this show off the ground, but they have done it. I must say, the gags are simliar, I haven't warmed up to the guys totally, but Ruteledge Wood seems to get it. I normally find him annoying on Speed, but he seems to grasp the whimsy of the show, and I think other two do as well.

I will comment more on the show when I see future episodes...

[Mark]

Top Gear will return to BBC2 on 26th June.

[555-04Q2]

No, the BBC hates lawsuits and bad publicity.

There is no such thing as bad publicity, only paid for publicity and free publicity.

[schmenke]

In other Top Gear news, I finally got to see an episode of the American Top Gear. The most ridiculous incubation was required to finally get this show off the ground, but they have done it. I must say, the gags are simliar, I haven't warmed up to the guys totally, but Ruteledge Wood seems to get it. I normally find him annoying on Speed, but he seems to grasp the whimsy of the show, and I think other two do as well.
......

Yeah, I agree. At first I thought it was mindless drivel, but when accepted for what it really is, mindless drivel, it’s bearable. :p : .

[schumacher7championships]

top gear.
it s difficult to describe the sense of humour and the amazing job that these 3 people and of course not alone.
the have thought about everything related to racing and more surprisinlgly they have tried it.
however,the best and more difficult and more interesting and maybe ''more settled'' episode was that in vietnam.absolutely brilliant.

in my opinion james 's role is often played down.he isn t captain slow mr jeremi!

[Daniel]

Of course there's a Abarth 500 convertible in one episode for those who like 500's :p

[555-04Q2]

Of course there's a Abarth 500 convertible in one episode for those who like 500's :p

The Abarth 500 does look good :up:

[Daniel]

Not the convertible though

[555-04Q2]

Wasn't talking about the convertible :)

Haven't seen an Abarth 500 in the flesh yet, but it looks pretty good in pics :)

[KILOHMUNNS]

On a different note.

Has anyone noticed that Oxford Diecast are going to release the channel crossing cars? No sure what size though

Topgear (http://www.oxforddiecast.co.uk/Topgear.htm)

[Daniel]

1:43 by the look of it

[Sonic]

On a different note.

Has anyone noticed that Oxford Diecast are going to release the channel crossing cars? No sure what size though

Topgear (http://www.oxforddiecast.co.uk/Topgear.htm)

I look forward to the model of the damper van at the bottom of the sea.

[wedge]

I would love to be in the recording of Prince Harry in the studio and witness Jezz ripping 10 pints of urine.

absolutely fantastic!

[Brown, Jon Brow]

After last weeks enjoyable episode where the Top Gear boys took to the streets of Monte Carlo, this week Vettel is the Star in the Reasonably Priced Car.

:D

[Daniel]

After last weeks enjoyable episode where the Top Gear boys took to the streets of Monte Carlo, this week Vettel is the Star in the Reasonably Priced Car.

:D

The thing that annoyed me about last weeks episode was not having a stig drive those three cars around. Therefore the Abarth 500c looked faster than the Rennosport Clio, which it most certainly isn't!!!!

[Retro Formula 1]

Blimey. The MP4-12C is awesome.

It's looked fast the few times I've seen it in development but that was shockingly quick.

I wantone sooooo much. I've never wanted a Ferrari or a veyron but I would sell body parts for one of them.

Perhaps if I kidnap Ron Dennis....

[christophulus]

Great show tonight. This series has been good so far, big improvement over the last few.

[Daniel]

Great show tonight. This series has been good so far, big improvement over the last few.

I'm sorry but last weeks show was a bag of crap. This weeks was better but hardly an epic.

[Brown, Jon Brow]

I'm sorry but last weeks show was a bag of crap. This weeks was better but hardly an epic.

I emjoyed the segment on the hot hatches last week.

[Daniel]

I emjoyed the segment on the hot hatches last week.

I found it annoying. I mean wtf was with the stupid scavenger hunt? They were driving to Monaco, do you know what that means? Monte FREAKING Carlo stages. Did they show us how these hot hatches handled on these roads though? No. They had a moronic scavenger hunt which wasn't even funny. Then there was the on track action. Did they do the right thing and have a Stig driving all 3 or get 3 professional drivers to show us what the cars can really do? No, we had the rather **** Abarth 500c beating the fantastic Rennosport Clio purely because May was driving. If May had kicked Flabio out of the car at speed in the tunnel that could have made it watchable, but Flabio still lives and it was a **** segment.

[Dave B]

It's a light-ent show which occasionally mentions cars. As such it's fairly good. I think you're setting your sights too high.

[Daniel]

But the scavenger hunt wasn't fun, entertaining or informative.

[donKey jote]

I'm beginning to prefer fifth gear :arrows:

[Gregor-y]

At heart Clarkson is an F1 fan boy and not rally enthusiast, plus they filmed the Col de Turini before. I still would have preferred more of that to the scavenger hunt, however.

[Daniel]

At heart Clarkson is an F1 fan boy and not rally enthusiast, plus they filmed the Col de Turini before. I still would have preferred more of that to the scavenger hunt, however.

You obviously haven't seen Top Gear before then. Clarkson likes motorsport, the Lancia segment a series or two ago shows that Clarkson likes rallying.

[Gregor-y]

I have indeed; remember the most recent Evo/STI comparison and his attitude toward rallying. It's not safe to believe anything on the show has genuine emotion behind it other than entertaining the viewers. There's no lap board for non-F1 drivers, and if you look back to the early seasons - I don't remember which one - you see Richard Burns wasn't given much air time or respect despite having won the championship. This is why I say while he may or may not dislike rally Clarkson does not go far out of his way to highlight or praise it.
But of course most people are probably bigger fans of F1 than rally. I certainly was, growing up.

[Daniel]

A very good friend and avid follower of both Richard Burn's who was his neighbour and Colin McRae when they were both alive. I remember the episode where Clarkson dedicated a segment to Burn's shortly after his death and he very nearly broke down in tears as he socialised frequently with Burns and his family and he stated in his newspaper article that his death hit him and his wife hard. I believe Clarkson enjoys F1 but Rallying is his preferred sport. I also saw Clarkson at Prodrive a few years back at an open day.

When were you at the open day? I went to one back in 2007 :)

[CaptainRaiden]

I didn't enjoy this week's episode. The mid-segment with May and that Range Rover almost put me to sleep. One of the most boring segments ever in Top Gear. Vettel was meh.

What was interesting though was the first segment, with the amazing new Mclaren MP4-12C, of course ruined by Clarkson's Ferrari ass kissing. It looked, drove and sounded better than the Ferrari. What else do you want? Goo-Ferrari soul, passion, horse-goo. Idiot.

[donKey jote]

I didn't enjoy this week's episode. The mid-segment with May and that Range Rover almost put me to sleep. One of the most boring segments ever in Top Gear. Vettel was meh.

What was interesting though was the first segment, with the amazing new Mclaren MP4-12C, of course ruined by Clarkson's Ferrari ass kissing. It looked, drove and sounded better than the Ferrari. What else do you want? Goo-Ferrari soul, passion, horse-goo. Idiot.

funny that... May and Vettel saved the show for me. :)
The MP4 vs F458 was much better 2 weeks ago on fifth gear, where both potato and needle arrived at the very same conclusion. Traitors eh? :p

[Daniel]

funny that... May and Vettel saved the show for me. :)
The MP4 vs F458 was much better 2 weeks ago on fifth gear, where both potato and needle arrived at the very same conclusion. Traitors eh? :p

It's Potato and Tiffany Dell :p

I also quite liked the bit with May and the Range Rover and also with Vettel.

[donKey jote]

And Féttle is pronounced Vet-L :p

[Sonic]

Great show tonight. This series has been good so far, big improvement over the last few.

Yup. Really enjoying this season. They seem to have made an effort to do something different this year, with a distinctly less prating about, and, if the trailer for the next episode (train cars) is anything to go by it could be the best episode since the original aqua car episode.

[CaptainRaiden]

funny that... May and Vettel saved the show for me. :)
The MP4 vs F458 was much better 2 weeks ago on fifth gear, where both potato and needle arrived at the very same conclusion. Traitors eh? :p

Probably I was snoring by the time May got to Vegas because I'm not interested in how nicely the Range Rover handles different terrains or how many rocks it can climb. Vettel's lines seemed to be rehearsed, so there was some obvious lack of chemistry. Besides Clarkson really didn't grill him like he did poor ole' Barrichello. :D So, it was all a bit vanilla and meh for me. ;)

[CaptainRaiden]

On a side note, I watched it at the end of a very grueling work day, thoroughly exhausted and mind-bleeped, so that probably also played into it. :p

[Gregor-y]

A very good friend and avid follower of both Richard Burn's who was his neighbour and Colin McRae when they were both alive. I remember the episode where Clarkson dedicated a segment to Burn's shortly after his death and he very nearly broke down in tears as he socialised frequently with Burns and his family and he stated in his newspaper article that his death hit him and his wife hard. I believe Clarkson enjoys F1 but Rallying is his preferred sport. I also saw Clarkson at Prodrive a few years back at an open day.
I stand corrected, then. Good to hear.

I liked the Range Rover bit, mainly because I've driven through that part of California before. I wasn't rock crawling but spent some time on unpaved roads. I have noticed Top Gear does spend a lot of time in the US when they go on holiday.

[Eki]

And Féttle is pronounced Vet-L :p

Or Wet-L. Webber is pronounced Web-Er.

[Robinho]

I didn't enjoy this week's episode. The mid-segment with May and that Range Rover almost put me to sleep. One of the most boring segments ever in Top Gear. Vettel was meh.

What was interesting though was the first segment, with the amazing new Mclaren MP4-12C, of course ruined by Clarkson's Ferrari ass kissing. It looked, drove and sounded better than the Ferrari. What else do you want? Goo-Ferrari soul, passion, horse-goo. Idiot.

To be fair Evo magazine, in a couple of tests now, have said the same things, the McLaren is a technical masterpiece and rewrites quite a few rules, especially in terms of ride and the ability to corner at higher speeds than anything else, but is not as thrilling drive as the Ferrari and has less steering feel. and in contrast with Top Gear's times, they actually had the Ferrari a second ahead of the McLaren in a back to back test round bedford autodrome. Not saying the the McLaren in rubbish or anything, and as a first supercar from the company (not including the McLaren F1) its an incredible machine, but don't discount views that it is maybe "only" as good as the Ferrari , or even a close 2nd, as rubbish just cos its Clarkson.

[Eki]

And Féttle is pronounced Vet-L :p

Or Wet-L. Webber is pronounced Web-Er.

[Mark]

Well the are both outstanding examples aimed at slightly different markets.

[Malbec]

To be fair Evo magazine, in a couple of tests now, have said the same things, the McLaren is a technical masterpiece and rewrites quite a few rules, especially in terms of ride and the ability to corner at higher speeds than anything else, but is not as thrilling drive as the Ferrari and has less steering feel.

As has Car magazine too, but then every mid engine supercar that's been the equal of a Ferrari has been labelled as soulless, the Honda NSX, Audi R8 and now the McLaren.

I'd like to see how the McLaren compares to a top of the range Porsche. I know they aren't the same but the Porsche is the epitome of teutonic efficiency vs Italian passion and doesn't seem the worse for it.

[Daniel]

To be fair Evo magazine, in a couple of tests now, have said the same things, the McLaren is a technical masterpiece and rewrites quite a few rules, especially in terms of ride and the ability to corner at higher speeds than anything else, but is not as thrilling drive as the Ferrari and has less steering feel. and in contrast with Top Gear's times, they actually had the Ferrari a second ahead of the McLaren in a back to back test round bedford autodrome. Not saying the the McLaren in rubbish or anything, and as a first supercar from the company (not including the McLaren F1) its an incredible machine, but don't discount views that it is maybe "only" as good as the Ferrari , or even a close 2nd, as rubbish just cos its Clarkson.

But that's always been the McLaren way, I have the Official McLaren F1 book called Driving Ambition and basically Gordon Murray set out to make a car with supercar performance but which you could drive every day if you wanted to. Bonkers supercars/hypercars are fun if you're 11 and need something to put on your wall, but if it were your car and you were wanting to drive it every day then you'd choose the McLaren every time.

[wedge]

The review of the BMW M coupe was utter poo. It was as if it was aimed at estate agents. And why did they not test it properly with the Cayman?

[Malbec]

The review of the BMW M coupe was utter poo. It was as if it was aimed at estate agents. And why did they not test it properly with the Cayman?

Yup, it was pretty obvious that they didn't 'race' the M Coupe against the Lotus and Porsche around a track because the two mid-engined cars would have creamed the BMW.

Its because of the way they skew roadtests to make whatever point they want to make that I only watch Top Gear on iPlayer skipping most of it. Its a shame quite a few people probably take what they say about certain cars at face value.

[Daniel]

Yup, it was pretty obvious that they didn't 'race' the M Coupe against the Lotus and Porsche around a track because the two mid-engined cars would have creamed the BMW.

Its because of the way they skew roadtests to make whatever point they want to make that I only watch Top Gear on iPlayer skipping most of it. Its a shame quite a few people probably take what they say about certain cars at face value.

I reckon you're right. A lot of people probably take the reviews at face value.

[wedge]

Well the are both outstanding examples aimed at slightly different markets.

Really? I very much remember Ron Dennis referring to the Ferrari 430 laying down the benchmark for McLaren.


I'd like to see how the McLaren compares to a top of the range Porsche. I know they aren't the same but the Porsche is the epitome of teutonic efficiency vs Italian passion and doesn't seem the worse for it.

Ferrari 458 Italia v Porsche 911 GT3 RS | evo videos (http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/supercarvideos/251455/ferrari_458_italia_v_porsche_911_gt3_rs.html)

http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/supercarvideos/251458/


Bonkers supercars/hypercars are fun if you're 11 and need something to put on your wall, but if it were your car and you were wanting to drive it every day then you'd choose the McLaren every time.

Again, refer to Evo/Chris Harris' review above, especialy the last part and its conclusion.

Even the Megane 250 vs. Focus RS.

Something that's easy to drive is all well and good but some people - driving enthusiasts as well those with more money than sense - want something that's a bit lairy. Its the greater test of skill and therefore more rewarding and satisfying to drive.

Another analogy, (when time rich, no problems with traffic, etc) why drive on an A road when you can have more fun on a B road?

[CaptainRaiden]

To be honest, I don't believe a certain car has "zing" or passion or soul just because somebody else says it. You can be passionate about anything you want to, even a certain box of crayons because they color so well. I have never owned a supercar, and I don't think anybody else on this forum has, but if I ever was to buy one, I would like to buy the one that handles the best, so that I know when on a sneaky evening if I want to open the throttle on the highway and make a sudden turn, I won't end up in a ditch. So, I would choose a Porsche 911 or the new Mclaren every time. The joy of driving is knowing that your car has that handling sweet spot that would allow you to put it through its limits.

Anyway, I never take what Clarkson says seriously ever. It's pretty obvious he is pro Ferrari and anti Porsche and probably anti Mclaren. Going by his logic, the ill handling 16 year old Mclaren F1 would be the most passionate car and the car with the most "zing" in it, but it is not. He criticized the old Mclaren because it handled bad, and he didn't like the new one because it handles too good. Well...

[CaptainRaiden]

Also, how he went on about the Mclaren factory being spick and span, futuristic, engineers not knowing what fun is, blah, blah, blah, it's not like the Ferrari factory is on the top of a mountain and they have Catholic monks carving engines out of a slab of iron. Both factories are technologically sophisticated and similar in probably each and every way. It's just that Ferrari has this aura around it that too many people buy into blindly. I prefer the Zonda R much more than any recent Ferrari model, from the way it looks, the sound, the characteristics, at least from what I have seen, not experienced. :D

[AndyRAC]

Is this the same McLaren F1 which in GT form won Le Mans...???

[Daniel]

To be honest, I don't believe a certain car has "zing" or passion or soul just because somebody else says it. You can be passionate about anything you want to, even a certain box of crayons because they color so well. I have never owned a supercar, and I don't think anybody else on this forum has, but if I ever was to buy one, I would like to buy the one that handles the best, so that I know when on a sneaky evening if I want to open the throttle on the highway and make a sudden turn, I won't end up in a ditch. So, I would choose a Porsche 911 or the new Mclaren every time. The joy of driving is knowing that your car has that handling sweet spot that would allow you to put it through its limits.

Anyway, I never take what Clarkson says seriously ever. It's pretty obvious he is pro Ferrari and anti Porsche and probably anti Mclaren. Going by his logic, the ill handling 16 year old Mclaren F1 would be the most passionate car and the car with the most "zing" in it, but it is not. He criticized the old Mclaren because it handled bad, and he didn't like the new one because it handles too good. Well...

I'm sorry but the McLaren F1 was never criticised for handling badly.

[CaptainRaiden]

I'm sorry but the McLaren F1 was never criticised for handling badly.

By Clarkson it was. I remember on an old Top Gear episode him and Tiff Needell having an argument over the Mclaren's handling, where Needell of course loved it, but Clarkson said it was twitchy, had no rear end grip, and he much preferred the Ferrari F40.

Then he criticized its handling again later, I Googled his quote from what I could remember here: Top Gear: Series 5 Episode 2 Episode Summary - TV.com (http://www.tv.com/top-gear/series-5-episode-2/episode/408896/summary.html)


Jeremy Clarkson: [Describing the driving experience of the McLaren F1] You know that bit in Dr. Strangelove where Peter Sellers is astride the nuclear missile? That's what it's like. You don't know where you're going, you have no real control you just know that the journey's going to end very soon... and very badly!

[Daniel]

By Clarkson it was. I remember on an old Top Gear episode him and Tiff Needell having an argument over the Mclaren's handling, where Needell of course loved it, but Clarkson said it was twitchy, had no rear end grip, and he much preferred the Ferrari F40.

Then he criticized its handling again later, I Googled his quote from what I could remember here: Top Gear: Series 5 Episode 2 Episode Summary - TV.com (http://www.tv.com/top-gear/series-5-episode-2/episode/408896/summary.html)

OK I shall rephrase that, no one of note has ever criticised the F1's handling :D

[CaptainRaiden]

OK I shall rephrase that, no one of note has ever criticised the F1's handling :D

Yep. I'm talking about Clarkson's idiotic comments anyway. I know the Mclaren F1 is a brilliant car. Tiff Needell and Mika Hakkinen have said so, so I'd take their word over the Ferrari loving baboon any day. :p

[Daniel]

Yep. I'm talking about Clarkson's idiotic comments anyway. I know the Mclaren F1 is a brilliant car. Tiff Needell and Mika Hakkinen have said so, so I'd take their word over the Ferrari loving baboon any day. :p

Well Mika did work for McLaren you know ;) I've always liked the McLaren F1, the whole singlemindedness of the design is fantastic. If you could get a copy of Driving Ambition it would be well worth it but I think it was a limited edition book so 2nd hand copies are expensive!!!!

[CaptainRaiden]

Well Mika did work for McLaren you know ;) I've always liked the McLaren F1, the whole singlemindedness of the design is fantastic. If you could get a copy of Driving Ambition it would be well worth it but I think it was a limited edition book so 2nd hand copies are expensive!!!!

Well, there's always the internet *cough* scanned PDF *cough*, although I doubt anybody is bothered with it that much for me to be able to find it anywhere.

I also have always loved the Mclaren F1 ever since I saw it for the first time, and got to know the nitty-gritties. Plus, it has the best seating position of any supercar ever. At that time that was as close as you could get to driving an F1 car, also if you had $1 million. ;)

[Malbec]

/251455/ferrari_458_italia_v_porsche_911_gt3_rs.html]Ferrari 458 Italia v Porsche 911 GT3 RS | evo videos[/url]

http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/supercarvideos/251458/

Thats a comparison of a Ferrari and a Porsche. Has the McLaren been compared to a porker yet? And if so, was it derided as being soulless compared to the German car?

[Retro Formula 1]

Popped down to see what was going on with Filming today. Just a GTR going around with Stiggy and Rowan Atkinson doing SiaRPC bit. Might be interesting to see that actually because Rowan has a bit of experience. We had his GT350 in in the Workshop for a couple of years but it might be slightly different in the Kia.

[Daniel]

Popped down to see what was going on with Filming today. Just a GTR going around with Stiggy and Rowan Atkinson doing SiaRPC bit. Might be interesting to see that actually because Rowan has a bit of experience. We had his GT350 in in the Workshop for a couple of years but it might be slightly different in the Kia.

Selebrity in a Reasonably Priced Car? :p

[wedge]

To be honest, I don't believe a certain car has "zing" or passion or soul just because somebody else says it. You can be passionate about anything you want to, even a certain box of crayons because they color so well.

Have you ever driven a Korean car, Hyundai especially?


The joy of driving is knowing that your car has that handling sweet spot that would allow you to put it through its limits.


Point & squirt = boring


Thats a comparison of a Ferrari and a Porsche. Has the McLaren been compared to a porker yet? And if so, was it derided as being soulless compared to the German car?

Judging by the end of the review it's quite obvious the McLaren would need to try harder to make the car more engaging ie. 'fun' factor.

[Retro Formula 1]

Selebrity in a Reasonably Priced Car? :p

What are you going on about now???? :confused:

Can you not spell or are you merely confused :p

[Malbec]

Judging by the end of the review it's quite obvious the McLaren would need to try harder to make the car more engaging ie. 'fun' factor.

I suspect that most people, you and I included, do not have the skill or the money to burn to risk pushing a McLaren, Ferrari or Porsche hard enough to tell which is more engaging.

[CaptainRaiden]

Have you ever driven a Korean car, Hyundai especially?

Yes, in fact. And I was passionate about a particular Hyundai Accent, because that was the most fun I ever had driving in a race. Hell, I was passionate about a 0.8L Suzuki.

Also, I have driven a Formula Rolon car based off of a Chevrolet in a race.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/aa/Formula_Rolon_Side_View.jpg/360px-Formula_Rolon_Side_View.jpg

Mind boggling fun.

Have you ever driven a Porsche 911, a Ferrari, a Pagani Zonda, a Lamborghini or a Mclaren to their limits to know if a slightly ill handling car is more fun?


Point & squirt = boring

Yes, I'm sure Glock driving that handful Virgin is a much happier man than the utterly bored Vettel driving that almost perfect Red Bull. ;) Ever wondered why drivers, real racing drivers (not some potbellied mid-age journalist) are happy when their team finds the sweet spot on the car, which helps them perform better?



Judging by the end of the review it's quite obvious the McLaren would need to try harder to make the car more engaging ie. 'fun' factor.

Yes, puncture the front left. Then it would be a handful and give a lot of "fun" to some people.

[CaptainRaiden]

I suspect that most people, you and I included, do not have the skill or the money to burn to risk pushing a McLaren, Ferrari or Porsche hard enough to tell which is more engaging.

Exactamundo. None of those cars would ever reach their limit on normal roads, not even on a track day, because owners would never push their cars to their limit even there. At normal speeds, even slightly higher speeds, nobody would ever be able to tell these cars apart. The only way these cars would ever be pushed to their limit is in competition by professional drivers. And every racing driver on this planet wants a good handling car.

I still have to get my head around the idea of a difficult-to-handle car being more "fun" or having more "zing". Probably Clarkson should just accept he is a sucker for whatever comes out of Maranello.

[Daniel]

What are you going on about now???? :confused:

Can you not spell or are you merely confused :p


Confused :p :uhoh:

[Gregor-y]

I'll look forward to seeing Atkinson; I was getting interested in English history at school when a local public TV station started to air The Black Adder (along with The Prisoner, The Young Ones and Alexi Sayle).

[Brown, Jon Brow]

Rowan Atkinson will be fast! It's strange that he has never been on before.

[wedge]

Have you ever driven a Porsche 911, a Ferrari, a Pagani Zonda, a Lamborghini or a Mclaren to their limits to know if a slightly ill handling car is more fun?

Nope but I've driven an early 90s Toyota MR2 in a wet, empty car park :D


Yes, I'm sure Glock driving that handful Virgin is a much happier man than the utterly bored Vettel driving that almost perfect Red Bull. ;)

Remember when Jacques Villeneuve used to have massive shunts at Eau Rouge in qualy and came out smiling, just because he wanted to prove to Jock Clear et al that he could take the corner flat out.


Ever wondered why drivers, real racing drivers (not some potbellied mid-age journalist) are happy when their team finds the sweet spot on the car, which helps them perform better?

But is racing is different to car ownership. The relationship between man and machine is different to racing, is it not? Even Jason Plato (BTCC) and Tiff Needel (ex racer - F1 reject, endurance racer) looked down on the McLaren.


I still have to get my head around the idea of a difficult-to-handle car being more "fun" or having more "zing".

For mere mortals there's the thrill factor when you need a change of underwear. Those with sense want to understand how 'tame' the car via tuition or practice in the right circumstances.

[CaptainRaiden]

Remember when Jacques Villeneuve used to have massive shunts at Eau Rouge in qualy and came out smiling, just because he wanted to prove to Jock Clear et al that he could take the corner flat out.

Like I said, "real" racing drivers. :p Besides that might be the one of the reasons why Villeneuve isn't in F1 right now. Also, I don't get how that is relevant. That wasn't a guy being passionate about his car, that was his freakin huge ego costing his team money and inconvenience.


But is racing is different to car ownership. The relationship between man and machine is different to racing, is it not? Even Jason Plato (BTCC) and Tiff Needel (ex racer - F1 reject, endurance racer) looked down on the McLaren. For mere mortals there's the thrill factor when you need a change of underwear. Those with sense want to understand how 'tame' the car via tuition or practice in the right circumstances.

Like I said in my earlier post, regular folks like us would never be able to get a supercar to the limit on normal roads to know the difference, EVER. That MAY BE possible at a track day, but they'd be afraid to wreck it. Probably only the folks who have money to throw, like millionaires or billionaires, would do it. So, we're really talking about a really small group here. Also, not all billionaires t necessarily have to be good drivers. There are also morons.

At one of the tracks in India where I took part in the national karting championship, Mr. Vijay Mallya was the guest of honor. Before the race he uncovered his brand spanking new Porsche Carrera GT, wore an Arai helmet, squeezed his fat ass into Alpinestars racing overalls, got buckled up and everything, wanted to showboat, there was applause when he started the engine, he accelerated and then drove it straight into the wall wrecking the half a million dollar supercar.

Clarkson, Plato and Needell can all say what they want to, I still am free to make up my mind. Probably Mclaren didn't pay them enough marketing money. :p And I would still prefer the Mclaren because of the way it looks, sounds and what was said about it. A sweet handling supercar is my dream car, but well, us mere mortals can only dream. :D If you've ever struggled with an ill handling car during a race, you'd know what I'm talking about. And mind you, the Mclaren at full throttle would also need 'taming'. It's not like the car suddenly has 200% grip and you just turn at 200 mph without braking. But the best part about that car is you would have full confidence going into a corner, because you know exactly what the car is capable of. I have never met anybody in my life who just "loves" catching understeer or oversteer.

[wedge]

Fair enough, cars are subjective thing after all.

Judging the quality of car journalism surely it reflects on the majority of readership/viewers and potential owners that having a car that's quick and easy to drive just isn't enough.

One thing I will agree on is Viijay Mallya. Around the same time he brought out Spyker he used to drive round Northampton in his Ferrari 430 and revving the thing in stop/start traffic. 2@-ish behaviour but difficult not to enjoy NA Fezza!

[CaptainRaiden]

One thing I will agree on is Viijay Mallya. Around the same time he brought out Spyker he used to drive round Northampton in his Ferrari 430 and revving the thing in stop/start traffic. 2@-ish behaviour but difficult not to enjoy NA Fezza!

Mallya is a freakin showboat, and a crazy party freak as can be seen from his lavish parties in India and the yearly bash at Monaco on his yacht. Although, if I was a billionaire like him, I'd party hard too. :D One thing you've got to admire is his taste in cars. Saw him drive a bloody Jaguar XJR-15 and a Porsche Spyder 550 among others.

[JasonPotato]

Thought last sundays episode was really good as it was actually about cars! Love it when they do stuff like buy second hand cars for the price of a new car, not that i would go out and buy a V12 lol

[Retro Formula 1]

Thought last sundays episode was really good as it was actually about cars! Love it when they do stuff like buy second hand cars for the price of a new car, not that i would go out and buy a V12 lol

I agree.

I never buy new cars as you get sooo much more for your money with a 50k mile luxury car as opposed to some new model.

Motorbikes are different though. Always like to own them from new :D

[Retro Formula 1]

As an example, a 1.4 Ford Fusion is £14.5k.

For 2 grand less, you can have a fully loaded 09 CLK with 50k on the clock. I know which will be worth more in 3 years time.

2009 MERCEDES-BENZ CLK 2100 cc 220 CDi Avantgarde 2dr Tip Auto (http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201125392855822/sort/priceasc/usedcars/maximum-mileage/up_to_60000_miles/maximum-age/up_to_3_years_old/price-to/15000/model/clk/make/mercedes-benz/radius/1500/page/1/postcode/gu73js?logcode=p)

(Did a quick check. 3 year old Fordsstart at £4k while 5 year old CLK's start at £7.5k)

[Daniel]

As an example, a 1.4 Ford Fusion is £14.5k.

For 2 grand less, you can have a fully loaded 09 CLK with 50k on the clock. I know which will be worth more in 3 years time.

2009 MERCEDES-BENZ CLK 2100 cc 220 CDi Avantgarde 2dr Tip Auto (http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201125392855822/sort/priceasc/usedcars/maximum-mileage/up_to_60000_miles/maximum-age/up_to_3_years_old/price-to/15000/model/clk/make/mercedes-benz/radius/1500/page/1/postcode/gu73js?logcode=p)

(Did a quick check. 3 year old Fordsstart at £4k while 5 year old CLK's start at £7.5k)

Running costs of a Merc will be astronomical though.

I think buying a new car only works if you're going to keep it forever, otherwise you're merely paying the depreciation so someone else can have a nice car.

[JasonPotato]

I just wouldn't go near a new car, i don't see the point. I would rather spend under 10k on and older car and do something with it. I am only 20 but i will get one of these when i can afford to insure them. May sound strange but give me one of these over a Lambo/Ferrari any day!

MERCEDES-BENZ 190E 2.3 16 COSWORTH
1994 BMW M5 e34