Kimi vs Kubi pitlane start...(IF Hammy hadnt crashed into Kimi !)

[Zico]

If Hammy hadnt crashed into Kimi.. what do you think would/could/should have happened when the pitlane light turned green? They looked to be side by side but with Kubica in what I percieve to be the correct lane for entering the circuit again.. Could they have raced wheel to wheel onto the track without incurring a penalty of some sort?

Bit of a grey area for me, hoping someone can explain the rules..

Thanks..

[Somebody]

It's a curious thought, since you can't overtake under the SC.

It's probably as simple as 'whichever of the two got to the end of the pit lane first was "ahead" for the purposes' though.

[Knock-on]

I think Kimi would have had to yield or suffer a penalty drive through.

As it was, if Kimi had of filed in behind Robert as he should have done, all 3 drivers would have still been in the race.

Fundementally though, I think this was all caused by the FIA and the Circuit. If they hadn't had such a piss poor track, the Safety car would never have come out in the first place. There would normally have been no reason for that safety car and I think they did it as a precaution to inspect or clear the track.

[PSfan]

What would have happened is anyones guess, however that years race proved that the logical assumptions are probably not the right ones as I had documented last year it was a car passing a stationary Kubica that was an in-direct cause to his accident last year (The same car that passed him at pit lane out, squeezed him off the track when he tried to re-take his position...) Nothing happened to that toyota if I recall...

[Zico]

Thanks for the replies..

Planet F1's columist Andrew Davies..

"The follow-up must be to wonder if Raikkonen would have attempted to overtake Kubica when they were released by the red light. As Andrew notes, 'You can't overtake behind the Safety Car' but does that rule legislate for a scenario when two cars are situated side-by-side at the end of the pit-lane? While not exactly overtaking behind the Safety Car, both Kubica and Raikkonen had already overtaken Hamilton at their pit-stops and it's probable that the pit-lane exit would also have been regarded as an extension of that anomaly. After all, until a car has left the exit, surely it is not on the actual racetrack and thus cannot be considered to be 'behind the Safety Car'. My guess is that Raikkonen believed he could overtake Kubica along the exit and this is why he parked his Ferrari next to the BMW and not behind it."

Interesting thought but Im not sure hes correct.. I wonder how the Stewards would view this technically, where does the pitlane end and the circuit begin? I think at the lights would be a safe guess. ;)

[PSfan]

As it was, if Kimi had of filed in behind Robert as he should have done, all 3 drivers would have still been in the race.

LMAO

I guess alternatively if McLeran had the pit placement they where entitled to (First pits in this case...) McLeran could have told Hamilton to watch for the red lights (apperantly they have too...) in time for him to have slowed down...

Lets blame Bernie :)


Fundementally though, I think this was all caused by the FIA and the Circuit. If they hadn't had such a piss poor track, the Safety car would never have come out in the first place. There would normally have been no reason for that safety car and I think they did it as a precaution to inspect or clear the track.

Well, since I recorded the ITV (TSN) race and they where in the middle of a comercial break when it was decided to go to a safety car its hard to comment on why... Though it seemed they where trying to avoid a safety car period the way it was handled.

And as for the "piss poor" track conditions - Didn't stop Massa from moving up the grid... :rolleyes:

[BDunnell]

As it was, if Kimi had of filed in behind Robert as he should have done, all 3 drivers would have still been in the race.

It could very easily be argued, though, that he shouldn't have had to file in behind Kubica at all. I can't remember but they looked pretty even going down the pit lane.

[BDunnell]

Thanks for the replies..

Planet F1's columist Andrew Davies..

"The follow-up must be to wonder if Raikkonen would have attempted to overtake Kubica when they were released by the red light. As Andrew notes, 'You can't overtake behind the Safety Car' but does that rule legislate for a scenario when two cars are situated side-by-side at the end of the pit-lane? While not exactly overtaking behind the Safety Car, both Kubica and Raikkonen had already overtaken Hamilton at their pit-stops and it's probable that the pit-lane exit would also have been regarded as an extension of that anomaly. After all, until a car has left the exit, surely it is not on the actual racetrack and thus cannot be considered to be 'behind the Safety Car'. My guess is that Raikkonen believed he could overtake Kubica along the exit and this is why he parked his Ferrari next to the BMW and not behind it."

Interesting thought but Im not sure hes correct.. I wonder how the Stewards would view this technically, where does the pitlane end and the circuit begin? I think at the lights would be a safe guess. ;)

So would I, though it is indeed an anomaly, and demonstrates what a freak set of circumstances were involved in what happened.

To introduce a rule forbidding overtaking in the pit lane under the SC would be ridiculous. Therefore, I expect to see it brought in at the next race.

[Zico]

It could very easily be argued, though, that he shouldn't have had to file in behind Kubica at all. I can't remember but they looked pretty even going down the pit lane.

Yep, perfectly side by side, Kimi seemed to be intent on stopping closer to the line and angling his car towards Kubi as Lewis hit him.

I guess the stewards will probably need to write up some rules to stop this happening in future.. which could be argued will offer an unfair advantage to one of the teams based on their garage position in the pitlane... OR.. who ever entered the pits 1st, cant be helped I guess.

[aryan]

Kubica had the racing line coming out of the pit. He would have prevailed.

And I believe if Kimi acted in an overly optimistic way coming out of the pits, the Stewards wouldn't have liked it, considering that they are pretty keen on pit safety.

Of course, the question is really a very hypothetica one...

[jens]

One more proof that the current rules are flawed.

Imagine if Hamilton had managed to turn his car enough to avoid hitting Räikkönen and getting alongside him - 3-car drag race? There could have been a possibility of a crash if all of the drivers had decided to fight for getting ahead as the track got narrower out of the pits.

[Daniel]

I think Kimi would have had to yield or suffer a penalty drive through.

As it was, if Kimi had of filed in behind Robert as he should have done, all 3 drivers would have still been in the race.

Reading this sort of thing makes me angry. Even Lewis isn't misguided enough to blame Kimi for the incident.....

[Daniel]

So would I, though it is indeed an anomaly, and demonstrates what a freak set of circumstances were involved in what happened.

Well said. People need to understand you can't make rules to cater for every eventuality. Sometimes **** happens and nothing can be done to stop it. I somehow doubt we'll see an incident the same as this ever again.

[jso1985]

One more proof that the current rules are flawed.

Imagine if Hamilton had managed to turn his car enough to avoid hitting Räikkönen and getting alongside him - 3-car drag race? There could have been a possibility of a crash if all of the drivers had decided to fight for getting ahead as the track got narrower out of the pits.

previous SC rules would have give the same scenario

probably Kimi was going to try to overtake Kubica at the exit of the pitlane and he probably would have incured on a penalty.

so basically Hamilton saved Raikkonen from earning the donkey of the race award :p

[jso1985]

One more proof that the current rules are flawed.

Imagine if Hamilton had managed to turn his car enough to avoid hitting Räikkönen and getting alongside him - 3-car drag race? There could have been a possibility of a crash if all of the drivers had decided to fight for getting ahead as the track got narrower out of the pits.

previous SC rules would have give the same scenario, the light was red because the SC was still "behind" Raikkonen and the other drivers, if they would had go out they would have "lapped" the SC.

probably Kimi was going to try to overtake Kubica at the exit of the pitlane and he probably would have incured on a penalty.

so basically Hamilton saved Raikkonen from earning the donkey of the race award :p

[leopard]

Position of Kimi was fairly safer than Kubica, Cars from right will hit Kubica first. :D

[Knock-on]

Reading this sort of thing makes me angry. Even Lewis isn't misguided enough to blame Kimi for the incident.....

The reason you're angry is because you fail to understand what is written in plain English :rolleyes:

Who has blamed Kimi for the crash? There is only one person that the accident is attributed to and that is Lewis. He suffered brain fade and nobody has denied that.

HOWEVER, if Kimi was where he should have been, Lewis would have slid to the side and stopped at the Lights. From there, he would have had to let the other 2 go before starting.

Reasonable?

So, what was Kimi playing at?

Last time I checked, you can only enter your pit box when it is safe to do so. Safe means you enter exit into a clear gap does it not, thereby avoiding 2 cars racing down the pit lane, side by side.

Now, you can get as mad as you like but the fact remains that if Kimi was where he should have been, behind Robert, then the accident wouldn't have occured. I'm not blaming Kimi but pointing out that he contributed to his downfall.

[Garry Walker]

Point out a reason why Kimi should have been behind Kubica? He looked more like being in front of Kubica when exiting pits, than behind.

[Daniel]

Point out a reason why Kimi should have been behind Kubica? He looked more like being in front of Kubica when exiting pits, than behind.
Because Lewis is perfect and therefore Lewis made no mistake so Kimi is at fault for being there for Lewis to go into. I believe that is the (mindbogglingly illogical) reasoning Knockie is attempting to use.....

[Garry Walker]

Because Lewis is perfect and therefore Lewis made no mistake so Kimi is at fault for being there for Lewis to go into. I believe that is the (mindbogglingly illogical) reasoning Knockie is attempting to make.....

:D

[BDunnell]

The reason you're angry is because you fail to understand what is written in plain English :rolleyes:

Who has blamed Kimi for the crash? There is only one person that the accident is attributed to and that is Lewis. He suffered brain fade and nobody has denied that.

HOWEVER, if Kimi was where he should have been, Lewis would have slid to the side and stopped at the Lights. From there, he would have had to let the other 2 go before starting.

Reasonable?

So, what was Kimi playing at?

Last time I checked, you can only enter your pit box when it is safe to do so. Safe means you enter exit into a clear gap does it not, thereby avoiding 2 cars racing down the pit lane, side by side.

Now, you can get as mad as you like but the fact remains that if Kimi was where he should have been, behind Robert, then the accident wouldn't have occured. I'm not blaming Kimi but pointing out that he contributed to his downfall.

Have to say I disagree. Why should Raikkonen have pulled in behind Kubica? Going side-by-side down the pit lane isn't anything too surprising - we've seen it several times before. I don't think this was a contributory factor in what happened. If Raikkonen and Kubica had been line astern, Hamilton would either have (probably) sailed out of the pit lane past them and been excluded as a result, or still slammed into the back of whoever was second in line.

[Knock-on]

Because Lewis is perfect and therefore Lewis made no mistake so Kimi is at fault for being there for Lewis to go into. I believe that is the (mindbogglingly illogical) reasoning Knockie is attempting to use.....


Daniel, I am getting really tired of your silly games.

You insist on calling Drivers silly names
You claim people have written the opposite of what they have
You cannot offer a propper answer to a reasoned post.

From now on, if you haven't got anything constructive to say, kindly refrain from replying.

[BDunnell]

EDIT - double post.

[Knock-on]

Point out a reason why Kimi should have been behind Kubica? He looked more like being in front of Kubica when exiting pits, than behind.

Sorry Garry, I may not have made it 100% clear.

You are only allowed to exit a pit box when it is clear. In the old days, it was a lollypop but Ferrari have a TV system.

The reason for this is to avoid accidents in the Pit lane by having 2 cars argueing over a single piece of Tarmac.

Either Kimi could exit his box ahead of RK or he must exit after him. You cannot exit alongside.

I will have a look for some footage.

[ArrowsFA1]

Either Kimi could exit his box ahead of RK or he must exit after him. You cannot exit alongside.

I will have a look for some footage.
From the clip I've seen Massa swings in behind Kimi. Just has he does so Kubica leaves the BMW pit (directly behind Ferrari) and pulls out into the pitlane (as opposed to the garage "apron"). As he does so Kimi leaves his pit box. He cannot join the pitlane because Kubica is alongside so stays in the garage apron. Both slow for the red light, but had not completely stopped when Lewis hit Kimi.

[Knock-on]

Have to say I disagree. Why should Raikkonen have pulled in behind Kubica? Going side-by-side down the pit lane isn't anything too surprising - we've seen it several times before. I don't think this was a contributory factor in what happened. If Raikkonen and Kubica had been line astern, Hamilton would either have (probably) sailed out of the pit lane past them and been excluded as a result, or still slammed into the back of whoever was second in line.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=IFj80X3oWXc

OK, you can see the Blue line? That is the Pit drive lane where you have to drive down.

You can only cross this line to directly enter or exit your pit box.

You cannot drive side by side down the pit lane.

You must exit your pit box when it is safe to feed into this narrow lane. If 10 cars are coming down, nose to tail, you exit at the back.

Isn't that the rules?

[Knock-on]

From the clip I've seen Massa swings in behind Kimi. Just has he does so Kubica leaves the BMW pit (directly behind Ferrari) and pulls out into the pitlane (as opposed to the garage "apron"). As he does so Kimi leaves his pit box. He cannot join the pitlane because Kubica is alongside so stays in the garage apron. Both slow for the red light, but had not completely stopped when Lewis hit Kimi.

Correct.

Question is, should he have waited for Robert to pass before rejoining the pit lane or race side by side down it?

Anyone got a copy of the regs as FIA are being crap.

[Storm]

Even if Kimi had been behind Kubica, then you think he might not have hit him still ? (and even harder since it was 1 car length earlier which is a lot for F1 braking at 80kph) or you think Lewis would still have been in the "left lane" where Kimi was (in reality).
I think he just wasn't looking at where he was going.

Anyways all this is off topic, but had the hypothetical situation of the drag race occurred I think Kimi would have to let Robert go at the end of lane.

[ArrowsFA1]

Question is, should he have waited for Robert to pass before rejoining the pit lane or race side by side down it?
Well, if Ferrari didn't have the last pitbox in the pitlane he would have had no choice. He would have had to pull in behind Kubica.

[BDunnell]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=IFj80X3oWXc

OK, you can see the Blue line? That is the Pit drive lane where you have to drive down.

You can only cross this line to directly enter or exit your pit box.

You cannot drive side by side down the pit lane.

You must exit your pit box when it is safe to feed into this narrow lane. If 10 cars are coming down, nose to tail, you exit at the back.

Isn't that the rules?

Not sure about how things stand in relation to the rules, but on viewing that clip again, nothing Raikkonen did looks overly dodgy to me. And he doesn't cross the blue line.

[jens]

previous SC rules would have give the same scenario


Hell yeah, actually this is true (with the exception of a red light of course). If drivers had appeared to be running close to each other before the safety car, we could have seen a side-by-side battle in and out of the pits with the previous rules too. The funny thing is that although in safety car conditions racing as such is not allowed, then in the pits it actually appears!

[Knock-on]

Not sure about how things stand in relation to the rules, but on viewing that clip again, nothing Raikkonen did looks overly dodgy to me. And he doesn't cross the blue line.

That's the point, he should do.

Having the last pit box isn't carte blanche to have a drag race out of the pit box. You still have to feed back in.

[Daniel]

Not sure about how things stand in relation to the rules, but on viewing that clip again, nothing Raikkonen did looks overly dodgy to me. And he doesn't cross the blue line.

I think technically Kimi should have probably fallen in behind him. At 80kph in a narrow area like the pits it's very hard to judge where you're going to feed in. It's not like they drove from the start to the end of the pits like that. I don't see how it has any bearing on what happened. If Kimi did as Knockie said he should have how hard would Hambrainfartilton have hit him them?

[Azumanga Davo]

I would hate to be a mechanic next to the blue line if there were two cars side by side earlier in pit lane.

Maybe a tightening up of how cars filter safely?

[ioan]

Daniel, I am getting really tired of your silly games.


The rest of us have the same opinion, about your games. Strange huh?!

[ioan]

That's the point, he should do.

Having the last pit box isn't carte blanche to have a drag race out of the pit box. You still have to feed back in.

Any link to the regs where is stipulated that he should?

[BDunnell]

The rest of us have the same opinion, about your games. Strange huh?!

No we don't. Why do you think you speak for 'the rest of us'?

[Zico]

No we don't. Why do you think you speak for 'the rest of us'?

Indeed..

Can we keep this thread constructive please?

[Knock-on]

Any link to the regs where is stipulated that he should?

http://www.fia.com

:p :

[Daniel]

http://www.fia.com

:p :
What he means is an actual rule. Not telling someone where to find it.

[trumperZ06]

The rest of us have the same opinion, about your games. Strange huh?!

:dozey: Hhmmmm....

Looks like a "Personal Comment" !!!

Where is critical Jan, our puzzeled moderator ?

[trumperZ06]

;) Iceman Kimi's thread covers the same grounds.

Maybe these two threads should be combined?

The problem is caused by a Red Light at pit exit. If the track is properly designed... you exit the pits... " HOT" with a proper blend line that allows you to merge with on-coming traffic.

:dozey: Only in Formula One... would they install a "Red Light" at pit out.

[Zico]

Copy and paste this > http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.ns ... penelement (http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/475632E46002BEDAC125744F004312F4/$FILE/F1.SPORTING.REGULATIONS.19-05-2008.pdf?Openelement)

Ive had a good look, but cant see anything conclusive for the circumstances we are discussing.

[BDunnell]

Ive had a good look, but cant see anything conclusive for the circumstances we are discussing.

I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't anything to cover these circumstances at all. It was a freak incident. These things happen. There's no need to castigate anyone involved beyond saying that a stupid mistake was made. Surely we ought to move on?

[Knock-on]

What he means is an actual rule. Not telling someone where to find it.

Really Daniel? Really?

So I must spend my time trawling through rules to find the relevant one only for the detractors to ignore it.

Mmmm, I would rather someone else done the leg work for a change :D

[Daniel]

Really Daniel? Really?

So I must spend my time trawling through rules to find the relevant one only for the detractors to ignore it.

Mmmm, I would rather someone else done the leg work for a change :D

Do grow up.......

[jjanicke]

The rest of us have the same opinion, about your games. Strange huh?!


Please don't make blanket statements like these.

[jjanicke]

Just so that everyone's clear.... Kimi did nothing wrong and was free to put his car where it was:

"For the avoidance of doubt and for description purposes, the pit lane shall be divided into two lanes. The lane closest to the pit wall is designated the "fast lane", and the lane closest to the garages is designated the "inner lane". Other than when cars are at the end of the pit lane under Articles 38.3 and 41.5, the inner lane is the only area where any work can be carried out on a car."

The important statement being "Other than when .... at the end of the pit lane". Articles 38.3 and 41.5 both talk to the rules of the pit under race starting proceedures and race suspending proceedures.

There's nothing clearly written about the pit lane and safety car periods and thus there's no reasonable expectations as to what Kimi was doing. They wouldn't be able to punish him, but could tighten up the rules a little. Now passing the track under the SC is a completely different story, and then the question becomes "What's considered the track under SC rules".

[jjanicke]

There's also a rule that states "- any car leaving the pits may be overtaken by another car on the track before it crosses the second
safety car line" under section 40.8. This logically leads me to believe that cars exiting the pits are allowed to pass each other until they cross the "second safety car line".

Now the only questions is "Where is the second safety car line at the Canadian GP?

We could assume it's the line at the end of the pit lane exit http://www.formula1.com/photos/races/circuit_history/large/circuit_image_large_11.jpg

[Knock-on]

Just so that everyone's clear.... Kimi did nothing wrong and was free to put his car where it was:

"For the avoidance of doubt and for description purposes, the pit lane shall be divided into two lanes. The lane closest to the pit wall is designated the "fast lane", and the lane closest to the garages is designated the "inner lane". Other than when cars are at the end of the pit lane under Articles 38.3 and 41.5, the inner lane is the only area where any work can be carried out on a car."

The important statement being "Other than when .... at the end of the pit lane". Articles 38.3 and 41.5 both talk to the rules of the pit under race starting proceedures and race suspending proceedures.

There's nothing clearly written about the pit lane and safety car periods and thus there's no reasonable expectations as to what Kimi was doing. They wouldn't be able to punish him, but could tighten up the rules a little. Now passing the track under the SC is a completely different story, and then the question becomes "What's considered the track under SC rules".

I have to agree. I thought there was an onus to keep in the fast lane unless immediatly entering or exiting the FIA designated pit box.

The only thing of note is:

"It is the responsibility of the competitor to release his car after a pit stop only when it is safe to do so."

There is nothing to stop a driver racing side by side down a pit lane as far as I can see although logicv would suggest there should be. I'm sure I have read it somewhere but it's not in any of the Technical or sporting regs.

Kimi was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. There was absolutely nothing wrong that I can see in him being there.

[SparkyKate]

Whoever's nose was infront when the cars reached the track and officially rejoined the race would have been given the place. Lookin at it on face value, it would have been Kimi as he had the left side and as Kubica can't cross the white line between the pit exit and the racing line he would have had to have yielded till the end of the line, unless Kubica got his nose infront of Kimi pointed to the left hand side n it would have been Kimi who had to yield. Because of the red light, my money would be on Kubica cos Kimi never quite makes the break after the start.

Are you lot arguing about Ham again??

[airshifter]

Though I admit it's a freak thing in F1, the rule should be simple. Whoever reaches the line first exits onto the track first. In NASCAR it's not uncommon to race to the line, as long as they stay within the pit lane speed limits.

Looking at the video, I'm sure the Ferrari team sent Kimi thinking he could accelerate to the lead. I doubt either driver was really certain who was ahead, as it appeared to be within a foot or less. I thought Kubica was very slightly ahead, but lifted earlier to stop for the light. Either way, by the time Kimi had accelerated both were slowing, so unless he came to a complete stop it would have been hard to get behind Kubica.

[jso1985]

what the hell? I comeback and there's 40 posts about why some forumers are idiots for blaming Kimi on the accident? who mentioned the accident on the first place?
The thread is about what was Kimi trying to do when running side-by-side on the pit-lane, probably he thought he was ahead of Kubica, thus he was waiting for the green light to re-join ahead of him without any "racing" or maybe he tried to actually race on the pit-lane and was on his way to a penalty... or maybe... plenty of other situations...
but tell me who the hell blamed him for the accident with Hamilton?

[jjanicke]

... but tell me who the hell blamed him (Kimi) for the accident with Hamilton?

Who cares? It's "rubbish" anyway! ;)

[Tazio]

Not an sc situation but Fred and RK had a dead heat drag race in Monza 2006
(RK's 3rd F-1 race first podium)They arrived at the pit exit line even, and
Fred smoked him! Then proceeded to blow the Renault engine into so many pieces,
Massa had to pit for a new set, after he collected a whole slug of them in his right side tyres!
What does this have to do with this thread? :beer: I don't know!

[PSfan]

As I pointed out last year, a very similar "pass at the end of pitlane" incident occured at the 07 canadian GP:



http://www.illucid.org/Upload/kubwait.jpg

Here we have Robert waiting for the green light as we see a Toyota coming up from behind, and Kimi just exiting his pit box.

http://www.illucid.org/Upload/toyakub.jpg

Oh look, rejoining the track, the Toyota in now ahead of Kubica, while Kimi is right behind, and I'm not sure who the other two is

http://www.illucid.org/Upload/kubtoy.jpg

And finally, here we have Kubica trying to regain that position (I had tried to circle the incident, but photoshop didn't keep my circle...) I tried to capture it when I believed there was some contact (think some tires touching cause a slight hop from the BMW which sent him off track, but even if there wasn't, that Toyota shouldn't have been there to in the first place to contribute to the carnage that would take place seconds later!!!)

And while it I noted later in the thread that the Toyota driver also DNF'd and maybe thats why the incident wasn't reviewed, based on I believe Sato getting a penalty (was it a 5 grid penalty?) for the following race after a dnf, and Sutils "warning" for passing under yellow, I can only conclude that that kind of pass is alright in the FIA's eyes...

Also, as for the other issue brought up in this thread: should Kimi have had to yield to Kubica and take to the fast lane: One has to notice this is a rare race where Ferrari had choosen the pit stalls at the exit as oppose to the entrance and one must question why... and the easiest explanation is that because there is a long stretch from the last pits to the actual track @ montreal, then Ferrari counted on having the benefit of being able to safely send their cars out straight ahead. Also re-watching McLeran pit stops from Bahrain and Spain while there is little room after the last pits in those two races, McLeran did appear to take advantage of what space they did have (specially in spain...)

[Knock-on]

but tell me who the hell blamed him for the accident with Hamilton?

Nobody blamed Kimi. A few people tried to make out that some members were blaming Kimi but when asked to substantiate their claims, decided to STFU :laugh:

I questioned whether Kimi should have lined up alongside Kimi but according to the rules as I understand them, there is nothing to say he must rejoin the "Fast lane" (one nearest to the pit wall) and as such, was entitled to be where he was.

However, I see this as a failing of the regulations and expect to see them clarified to stop this happening in the future.

So, what would have happened is not very clear on this occassion. Hopefully it will be resolved to stop a similar instance.

[Knock-on]

BTW, how could this quote be considered arrogant?


we could have won, or, in the worst case, come second.

Seems quite logical to me.

[jjanicke]

Clearly Lewis was fueled much lighter than RK or KR, otherwise the double pit pass on Lewis during the SC would be inexplicable. He was third to the line (or Kimi's rear ;) ) because he had to fuel 2-3s more than RK or KR.

As such I think Kimi could have won, or at least come in second. Nothing arrogant about it.

[Knock-on]

Clearly Lewis was fueled much lighter than RK or KR, otherwise the double pit pass on Lewis during the SC would be inexplicable. He was third to the line (or Kimi's rear ;) ) because he had to fuel 2-3s more than RK or KR.

As such I think Kimi could have won, or at least come in second. Nothing arrogant about it.

He may have been fuelled lighter or he may have been fuelled for a longer stint while Kimi and Robert may have gambled on a shorter one for track position. We will never know ;)

I really don't see anything wrong with what he said either. It's just that you can imagine what the reaction here would have been had that been Lewis ;)

[jjanicke]

He may have been fuelled lighter or he may have been fuelled for a longer stint while Kimi and Robert may have gambled on a shorter one for track position. We will never know ;)

I really don't see anything wrong with what he said either. It's just that you can imagine what the reaction here would have been had that been Lewis ;)

Lewis was walking away with the race. RK was holding Kimi up. The pit pass would have been problematic for Lewis if Kimi took RK to the tack and Lewis was stuck behind RK.

For sure, IMO, the battle for the win was between Kimi and Lewis. RK was destined for 3rd.

[Knock-on]

Lewis was walking away with the race. RK was holding Kimi up. The pit pass would have been problematic for Lewis if Kimi took RK to the tack and Lewis was stuck behind RK.

For sure, IMO, the battle for the win was between Kimi and Lewis. RK was destined for 3rd.

It's a pity the boy cocked up because this could have been the race of the year. Unfortunatly, it would have been because of a faulty track but was boiling up to be a right cracker.

Of course, where Kimi and Robert were, it's not impossible that neither conceeded position and they collided in the pit exit gifting Lewis the win :laugh:

[jjanicke]

That it would have.

Either way I'm excited for Roberts 1st win. This kid is already someone in F1 and will get more interesting as BMW turns it up.

[Knock-on]

That it would have.

Either way I'm excited for Roberts 1st win. This kid is already someone in F1 and will get more interesting as BMW turns it up.

Agreed.

It goes to show that BMW's strategy was correct in moving to acquire Sauber and away from Williams.

What a bunch of Monkeys they make the Japs look :laugh: (and this from a Honda fan)