How will Ferrari's stand affect the future of F1?

[Valve Bounce]

While we are all talking about the displeasure of certain teams against Moseley, and the likelihood of a split by F1 (Bernie's Circus if you like) from FIA, I have always believed that without Ferrari, such a move would be certain to fail.

Then I just read that the Ferrari President, no less, has called on Max to quit. Now just drawing a line from this, if the teams which have already voiced their displeasure intimate they want to quit the FIA, and Ferrari joins them, which team will want to remain with the FIA?

Here's the link: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67977

[SGWilko]

While we are all talking about the displeasure of certain teams against Moseley, and the likelihood of a split by F1 (Bernie's Circus if you like) from FIA, I have always believed that without Ferrari, such a move would be certain to fail.

Then I just read that the Ferrari President, no less, has called on Max to quit. Now just drawing a line from this, if the teams which have already voiced their displeasure intimate they want to quit the FIA, and Ferrari joins them, which team will want to remain with the FIA?

Here's the link: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67977

If ALL the teams are in agreement (and I understand two or three are not) can they not just ditch regulation by the FIA and set up camp with Bernies Boys?

After all, that is where the money is.

I respect LDM for his statement, but it just a statement of his opinion. He has gone on to say, in the same statement, that he is grateful for all Max has done for the sport.

[Big Ben]

he also stated that he is grateful for how fast he took a decision in the spying affair. I'm sure he is pretty grateful for the decision itself too.

And he's right. they do need a man like him... capable of appealing his own decision at their request.

[SGWilko]

he also stated that he is grateful for how fast he took a decision in the spying affair. I'm sure he is pretty grateful for the decision itself too.

And he's right. they do need a man like him... capable of appealing his own decision at their request.

Mmmm, yes. But some 'new (illegally gained, inadmissable, evidence was found) justifying the appeal. ;)

[Valve Bounce]

No!! I am not talking about Max anymore or what he will or will not do with his case against News. I've moved on.

I am supposing here that Luca might be in the right frame of mind for F1 to split from the FIA.

Just supposing Ferrari, McLaren, BMW, Renault, Toyota and Honda were to announce an intention to join a new competition not controlled by the FIA; (I don't know where Frank stands with his tanks), there is little left in F1 as such for the FIA to control.

[ioan]

No!! I am not talking about Max anymore or what he will or will not do with his case against News. I've moved on.

I am supposing here that Luca might be in the right frame of mind for F1 to split from the FIA.

Just supposing Ferrari, McLaren, BMW, Renault, Toyota and Honda were to announce an intention to join a new competition not controlled by the FIA; (I don't know where Frank stands with his tanks), there is little left in F1 as such for the FIA to control.

We all know that Bernie would keep the money but who will control the technical and sporting regulation of the new series?!

And would they be allowed to use the Formula 1 and F1 names?

[SGWilko]

And would they be allowed to use the Formula 1 and F1 names?

Depends if Bernie is involved or not. You can just smell the cash, can't you?

[Valve Bounce]

We all know that Bernie would keep the money but who will control the technical and sporting regulation of the new series?!



Jean Todt, of course ;) , who else??

The name is a minor consideration at this stage of the discussion , wouldn't you agree? But I think Formula Bernie has a nice ring to it :p :

[Knock-on]

I was thinking that there has been a deal done, probably with Max's knowledge, to replace him with JT.

I've got that funny feeling again ioan and you know how often it's right ;)

[SGWilko]

I was thinking that there has been a deal done, probably with Max's knowledge, to replace him with JT.

I've got that funny feeling again ioan and you know how often it's right ;)

It needs to be someone unconnected to ANY F1 team or manufacterer.

[BDunnell]

I respect LDM for his statement, but it just a statement of his opinion. He has gone on to say, in the same statement, that he is grateful for all Max has done for the sport.

And that's the sort of thing people only ever say in public statements.

[BDunnell]

It needs to be someone unconnected to ANY F1 team or manufacterer.

I agree, but that someone is going to be quite hard to find.

[SGWilko]

And that's the sort of thing people only ever say in public statements.

What I meant was it was not necessarily his making a statement on behalf fo the Ferrari team as a whole, just him personally.

[ArrowsFA1]

And would they be allowed to use the Formula 1 and F1 names?
Aren't they owned by FOA and licenced to the FIA :confused:

I think Luca's voice is a loud one where F1 is concerned. While I don't think we're at the point of breakaway discussions yet, for him to call for Max's resignation suggests that some thought has been given to what happens if/when he doesn't resign.

With these kind of statements it's often what isn't said that is more significant :p

[ioan]

I was thinking that there has been a deal done, probably with Max's knowledge, to replace him with JT.

I've got that funny feeling again ioan and you know how often it's right ;)

That would be interesting, but if your "funny feelings" are the only thing pointing in that direction than it won't happen any time soon. :p :

[SGWilko]

That would be interesting, but if your "funny feelings" are the only thing pointing in that direction than it won't happen any time soon. :p :

Hey Knockie, not cramp is it? ;) :laugh: Sorry, couldn't resist.

[ArrowsFA1]

Then I just read that the Ferrari President, no less, has called on Max to quit.
Luca/Ferrari have "clarified" these comments:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67986

[ioan]

Luca/Ferrari have "clarified" these comments:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67986

So they don't think about jumping ship, they are happy with the situation as it is.
As Theissen put it, back to racing people.

The coup failed, Max stays and his opponents will have to fear what comes next.

[BDunnell]

The coup failed, Max stays and his opponents will have to fear what comes next.

If it turns out they have anything to fear, then things will go from bad to worse. There should be no recriminations from Mosley's side, for these would further demean and cheapen his office. If he wants to make anything work in the remaining time of his presidency, he needs to avoid picking fights and alienating people even more than he has since the scandal broke.

Incidentally, seeing you call it a coup makes me wonder whether any of Max's opponents had the slightest idea of a possible replacement. There has been almost no mention of this.

[ioan]

If it turns out they have anything to fear, then things will go from bad to worse. There should be no recriminations from Mosley's side, for these would further demean and cheapen his office. If he wants to make anything work in the remaining time of his presidency, he needs to avoid picking fights and alienating people even more than he has since the scandal broke.

Incidentally, seeing you call it a coup makes me wonder whether any of Max's opponents had the slightest idea of a possible replacement. There has been almost no mention of this.

By opponents I meant those whom set him up. Not the FIA groups who wanted him gone.

[BDunnell]

By opponents I meant those whom set him up. Not the FIA groups who wanted him gone.

Well, this is for the court to decide. It will still be risky and messy for Max, that's for sure. He's unlikely to come out of it well.

[Valve Bounce]

Well, this is for the court to decide. It will still be risky and messy for Max, that's for sure. He's unlikely to come out of it well.

This thread is not about Max's problems basically - we've moved on people!! This is about a split or at least instability in the FIA.

Any quips about Max should be referred to the Max thread, thanks.

No! a QUIP is NOT a quick whip!! :p :

[CNR]

No!! I am not talking about Max anymore or what he will or will not do with his case against News. I've moved on.

I am supposing here that Luca might be in the right frame of mind for F1 to split from the FIA.

Just supposing Ferrari, McLaren, BMW, Renault, Toyota and Honda were to announce an intention to join a new competition not controlled by the FIA; (I don't know where Frank stands with his tanks), there is little left in F1 as such for the FIA to control.

BMW, Honda urge FIA to act on split fear
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/68001


BMW Sauber and Honda Racing believe the FIA must do something to address fears of a split within the governing body in the wake of the vote of confidence in Max Mosley earlier this week.
Although Mosley comfortably won a majority in the vote on his presidency at the General Assembly meeting in Paris, it has not stopped some clubs criticising the decision and threatening to leave the FIA completely if Mosley stays on.
And with F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone calling on Mosley to resign later this year for the good of himself and the FIA, BMW Sauber and Honda Racing have expressed concern about the damage such uncertainty within the governing body can cause to F1.

[Valve Bounce]

It does appear to me (at least) that the unhappiness with the current situation stems from the fact the majority of the FIA's voting delegates come from bodies not directly or even indirectly related to any major forms of motorsport. There is no common denominator in this whatsoever. That money is shared to them for whatever reasons just does not make sense at all.

Now you can see all sorts of people dancing around the idea of splitting without ever admitting the word - only the scribes attribute this idea to the manufacturers. But you can bet your life they are all thinking about splitting; why should they give money to someone who has nothing to do with motorsport? and why should they be controlled by all these clubs who have nothing to do with motorsport?

That's what I'm thinking, and that is what I believe these major stakeholders in motorsport want to know.

It's like asking motorists to agree with the idea of having their dues given to pedestrians. The connection is tenuous.

[Big Ben]

So they don't think about jumping ship, they are happy with the situation as it is.
As Theissen put it, back to racing people.

The coup failed, Max stays and his opponents will have to fear what comes next.

words of wisdom buddy... the OPPONENTS should always fear him...

[ioan]

It does appear to me (at least) that the unhappiness with the current situation stems from the fact the majority of the FIA's voting delegates come from bodies not directly or even indirectly related to any major forms of motorsport.

It's called the FIA, not the FIMotorsport!
Not everyone who has a car dreams of racing around with it! :rolleyes:

[ArrowsFA1]

It's called the FIA, not the FIMotorsport!
Not everyone who has a car dreams of racing around with it! :rolleyes:
Before Max came along there were two distinct parts to the FIA. One represented motoring organisations, and the other motor sport.

The FIA, as we know it, was formed in 1904 to represent "the interests of motoring organisations and motor car users throughout the world", then in 1922 the Commission Sportive Internationale (CSI) was created to govern motor sport. This later became known as FISA.

In 1993 FISA was disbanded and motor sport was directly managed by the FIA, which strengthened Max Mosley's poistion considerably. That decision should be reversed IMHO.

[Valve Bounce]

It's called the FIA, not the FIMotorsport!
Not everyone who has a car dreams of racing around with it! :rolleyes:


How perceptive!! that is exactly my point. I'm glad you're so quick on the uptake. Sharp as a whip!!

[ioan]

Before Max came along there were two distinct parts to the FIA. One represented motoring organisations, and the other motor sport.

The FIA, as we know it, was formed in 1904 to represent "the interests of motoring organisations and motor car users throughout the world", then in 1922 the Commission Sportive Internationale (CSI) was created to govern motor sport. This later became known as FISA.

In 1993 FISA was disbanded and motor sport was directly managed by the FIA, which strengthened Max Mosley's poistion considerably. That decision should be reversed IMHO.

Should the decision about the FISA be reversed or not doesn't change the fact that the FIA stands for all automotive users not only for motorsport.

[ioan]

How perceptive!! that is exactly my point. I'm glad you're so quick on the uptake. Sharp as a whip!!

Well, than the unhappiness you were mentioning is unfounded.

[AndyRAC]

Should the decision about the FISA be reversed or not doesn't change the fact that the FIA stands for all automotive users not only for motorsport.

Yes, quite correct, unfortunately a lot of people including some in the FIA seem to think Motorsport is F1, end of; to the detriment of the other Motorsports. Which is unfortunate.

[ioan]

Yes, quite correct, unfortunately a lot of people including some in the FIA seem to think Motorsport is F1, end of; to the detriment of the other Motorsports. Which is unfortunate.

That's true, and sad.

[ArrowsFA1]

Should the decision about the FISA be reversed or not doesn't change the fact that the FIA stands for all automotive users not only for motorsport.
Should FISA be "recreated" then I think the FIA would be a far more representative and effective body. Max, and Max alone, is responsible for gathering power for himself in one place and that has been harmful to motorsport IMHO.

AndyRAC is absolutely right that a lot of people including some in the FIA seem to think Motorsport is F1 to the detriment of the other Motorsports. You only have to look at the amount of F1-focussed coverage there is of Maxgate. It doesn't seem to concern the WTCC or the WRC so much.

[Valve Bounce]

Well, than the unhappiness you were mentioning is unfounded.

Que?? :confused:

[ioan]

Que?? :confused:


It does appear to me (at least) that the unhappiness with the current situation stems from the fact the majority of the FIA's voting delegates come from bodies not directly or even indirectly related to any major forms of motorsport. There is no common denominator in this whatsoever. That money is shared to them for whatever reasons just does not make sense at all.

Hope it helps! ;)

[BDunnell]

Should the decision about the FISA be reversed or not doesn't change the fact that the FIA stands for all automotive users not only for motorsport.

But this is pretty irrelevant to most people. The vast majority of people would surely think that the FIA is a purely motorsport-related body. You may think they are stupid to think this, but in my view it's entirely to be expected. The FIA's profile in anything other than the motorsport arena is almost non-existent to the person on the street.

[BDunnell]

AndyRAC is absolutely right that a lot of people including some in the FIA seem to think Motorsport is F1 to the detriment of the other Motorsports. You only have to look at the amount of F1-focussed coverage there is of Maxgate. It doesn't seem to concern the WTCC or the WRC so much.

Although he seems to often be referred to as the 'boss of world motorsport', as a form of general journalistic shorthand, just as Bernie tends to be called 'Formula 1 boss Bernie Ecclestone'.

[Valve Bounce]

Hope it helps! ;)

You're not making any sense at all. You must be suffering from whiplash!! :p :

[SGWilko]

But this is pretty irrelevant to most people. The vast majority of people would surely think that the FIA is a purely motorsport-related body. You may think they are stupid to think this, but in my view it's entirely to be expected. The FIA's profile in anything other than the motorsport arena is almost non-existent to the person on the street.

Now that's a point well made. :up:

[SGWilko]

You're not making any sense at all. You must be suffering from whiplash!! :p :

What he does in his own time is irrelevent, isn't it....


....or is it? :laugh:

[Valve Bounce]

Should the decision about the FISA be reversed or not doesn't change the fact that the FIA stands for all automotive users not only for motorsport.

Well ioan, I cannot think of a single decision made by the FIA in a non sporting context regarding all those clubs the FIA represents.

Perhaps you could help us out here.

[BDunnell]

Well ioan, I cannot think of a single decision made by the FIA in a non sporting context regarding all those clubs the FIA represents.

Perhaps you could help us out here.

And without looking it up on the internet first. ;)

[elinagr]

what a stubit thread , ferrari affect f1 future lol

[Valve Bounce]

what a stubit thread , ferrari affect f1 future lol

Now you've upset ioan!! see what you've done?? :rolleyes: