Skoda S2000 in and WRC out

[JAM]

Skoda anounced today that will invest his efforts deveolpping the new Fabia S2000 and stop givving support to the teams that use the Skoda WRC.

This really don't surprise me, after so bad results with the woks team, still worst results with the fantastic team owned by Baumschlager and Schwarz... the option would be another way than WRC car -> future with S2000. The usual management decisions without knowing all the details of the facts.

[Tom206wrc]

What will become Andreas Aigner, François Duval(who was promised a factory support with First team) and Jan Kopecky ??? :(


I hope Redbull will be able to finalize a deal with Kronos or Bozian, though... :mark:

[RS]

Kopecky will continue with Skoda, Duval maybe too. Only Red Bull got the chop.

[Luckin]

Yup, Kopecký will be oficially supported by Skoda in 2007, Aigner will be backed by Red Bull (according to RB press release) and First Motorsport may become M2 team for next season, however it´s not clear whether Duval will drive for them. He said he has contract offers from some M2 teams...

[A.F.F.]

Excellent news even one team should exit form WRC team. Because any way they (Skoda) can improve their performance is good for me :bounce: Welcome to S2000 Skoda :up:

[Donney]

I agree with AFF

[CABAIO E'LONA]

Then.. Aigner-Meeke with Kronos-Red Bull??

[Roy]

Then.. Aigner-Meeke with Kronos-Red Bull??

That would be nice, Redbull has to stay in WRC!

Skoda has nothing to do in WRC. Slow car. Wrong mangement. I don't know if they are good enough for S2000.

[Luckin]

Well, hopefully all those incapable people responsible for the fall of Skoda factory team will vanish with the end of RB Skoda team. There is knowledge in Skoda, only (usually big) problem is choosing the right people...

You can blame Fabia, but don´t forget that even this car is capable of winning stages. However, finding the right setup seems to be difficult.

[JAM]

Well, hopefully all those incapable people responsible for the fall of Skoda factory team will vanish with the end of RB Skoda team. There is knowledge in Skoda, only (usually big) problem is choosing the right people...


The incapable will start now working on the Fabia S2000 :)

The Fabia WRC was a good base for development, but the people behind him failled. Look at the stages that Duval made with a underdeveloped car... very good if you have inm account that the car is not developed since mid 2005 and and that time was not competitive.

[Luckin]

The incapable will start now working on the Fabia S2000 :)

I´m worried about this, too...


The Fabia WRC was a good base for development, but the people behind him failled. Look at the stages that Duval made with a underdeveloped car... very good if you have inm account that the car is not developed since mid 2005 and and that time was not competitive.

Yes, that´s true. I think most of the drivers with Fabias did well this year and their results were pretty good.

[BDunnell]

Look at the stages that Duval made with a underdeveloped car... very good if you have inm account that the car is not developed since mid 2005 and and that time was not competitive.

And before him Ekstrom, McRae, Hirvonen...

[GruppoB]

This shift towards S2000 is worrying. I will honestly stop following the WRC if all it becomes is S2000, Toivonen would be rolling over in his grave if he found this current path for rallying. No disrespect to Toivonen.

Makes regional rallying more and more exciting as if it wasnt already more enjoyable to watch local heroes fight it out then rich playboys behind the wheel.
(Not making an inference to any driver in particular)

[cut the b.s.]

This shift towards S2000 is worrying. I will honestly stop following the WRC if all it becomes is S2000, Toivonen would be rolling over in his grave if he found this current path for rallying. No disrespect to Toivonen.

Makes regional rallying more and more exciting as if it wasnt already more enjoyable to watch local heroes fight it out then rich playboys behind the wheel.
(Not making an inference to any driver in particular)


If WRC cars werent so expensive to build and run S2000 wouldn't have ever started, but the reality is WRC is now a farce, we had 2 teams and 2 drivers competing for the title and event wins last year, the world championship has never been poorer, if S2000 can bring us close competition with the top drivers, rather than the lucky few well backed ones trading seconds all rally long, then bring it on, it cant get here fast enough

[A.F.F.]

[quote="GruppoB"]This shift towards S2000 is worrying. I will honestly stop following the WRC if all it becomes is S2000, Toivonen would be rolling over in his grave if he found this current path for rallying. No disrespect to Toivonen.
QUOTE]


Bold statement.

[JAM]

If WRC cars werent so expensive to build and run S2000 wouldn't have ever started, but the reality is WRC is now a farce, we had 2 teams and 2 drivers competing for the title and event wins last year, the world championship has never been poorer, if S2000 can bring us close competition with the top drivers, rather than the lucky few well backed ones trading seconds all rally long, then bring it on, it cant get here fast enough


If FIA (as usually) wasn't so imcompetent the WRC weren't at the price that they are right now. But wait by the S2000 prices to see what will hapen. The cars should cost a maximum of 200.000 Euros but they already pass that limit and are near the 300.000 / unit. They never reach the WRC costs but are more expensive than a Group N.

[StevoEvo]

Is this an anouncement about Duval for 2007 with Skoda First?

http://www.rally-mania.cz/index.php?vypisVse=detail&id=1766

[AndyRAC]

Personally I feel that formulae have a certain shelf life, we've had WRC's since 1997, now might be the time to say goodbye. The first WRCars were okay (Impreza WRC, Corolla WRC, Escort/Focus WRC), but latterly they've got out of hand, in terms of cost and performance. They are now probably too good, with too much grip.
I'm not sure what formula to go down, but the cars must be reasonably priced, good performance, noisy, and spectacular to watch. This should hopefully encourage more manufacturers to enter, which is what we want. This year hasn't been great with only 3 paid drivers and only 2 likely to win, the sign of a weak championship.

[Brother John]

Is this an anouncement about Duval for 2007 with Skoda First?

http://www.rally-mania.cz/index.php?vypisVse=detail&id=1766

Today on http://www.pitstoptv.be/

:down:
S2000 plans from Skoda have, however, consequences on the WRC-program of Skoda, 2007, only Jan Kopecky get still support of the constructeur!!!!!!

François Duval: On this moment I have no program for 2007. I talk with other teams. In any case First is in search and must find sponsors just like this year to finance the programme.

[StevoEvo]

The problem with the FIA is THEY ARE NEVER HAPPY, they swap and change all these rules and regulations every year and they don't know whether their coming or going. And 9 times out of 10 a couple of years down the line they start to realise ooops, perhaps that was'nt the best decision we made......
I know everything in life evolves, "not only in motorsport".
But I think it's the constant rule and reg changes that cost the manufacturers, "ie" designing new parts, making things within the required spec and all the other technical jargon that they have do comprehent too, and it's getting to be on a regular basis these days.
It's no wonder manufacturers are put off with the cost of top flight Rallying..
There was nothing wrong with the old Grp A formula, cars such as the Impreza 555,Celica ST,Cosworth,Intergrale,Evo and so on, were great to watch,loud,fast and not to expensive to run. and the fact they bore more resembelance to road going models,was more satisfying to both the manufacturer and the die-hard fans....
The bottom line is "the FIA like to complicate things so much,they always regret it when the s h i t hits the fan and decide to make another stupid desision..................P.S Max Mosely....... do one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[StevoEvo]

Feel better I got that of my chest now lol

[StevoEvo]

Today on http://www.pitstoptv.be/

:down:
S2000 plans from Skoda have, however, consequences on the WRC-program of Skoda, 2007, only Jan Kopecky get still support of the constructeur!!!!!!

François Duval: On this moment I have no program for 2007. I talk with other teams. In any case First is in search and must find sponsors just like this year to finance the programme.


Cheers Brother John....
So the speculation about Duval being in a Bozial 307 with Stohl could be true :)

[cut the b.s.]

Steve, the only problem with Group A was that you had to have a 2ltr turbo 4wheel drive in your production line up, as we can see in GpN only 2 makers have this, change was needed but unfortunately while I feel the WRC car idea was well founded, (it let Seat, Skoda, Ford, Peugeot, Citroen and Hyundia come and play) it has been let run too far un checked.

I know this isnt going to be a popular idea here, and it will never happen, but I'd like to see the top level of rally 2ltr 4WD spaceframed, front engined with only enough electrics to keep it road legal, I think its a crazy notion to start to build a pure bred racing machine from a road going base which has been compromised in every area from its conception in the interests of cost

[A.F.F.]

The drivers commonly think that the biggest save in costs would be less rallies. They commonly think that the cars aren't too expensive or their development.

[StevoEvo]

Yes cut the b.s. that was the homogolation rule in the day of Grp A.
But surely the FIA could allow teams to simply fit a turbocharged engine and 4 wheel drive to the base car, it's not rocket science..
For example a Pug 206 gti model or a Hyundia Accent,Citroen Xsara etc... with a full wide rally bodykit and decals doesnt look far different from the WRC model without its Turbo'd engine and 4x4 running gear.

1 simple rule is all that's needed...
To allow WRC teams to turbocharge and fit 4x4 to stock road models, which I'm sure will attract more manufacturers..

[cut the b.s.]

The drivers commonly think that the biggest save in costs would be less rallies. They commonly think that the cars aren't too expensive or their development.

If this is true, I'd rather see 10 rounds of a proper championship than what we had this year

[StevoEvo]

The drivers commonly think that the biggest save in costs would be less rallies. They commonly think that the cars aren't too expensive or their development.

Yet the FIA keep bringing in expensive logistical nitemare long haul events such as Japan and Mexico. And for 2008 they've put South Africa and Jordan in. I know it's a "World Rally" championship, but for teams to fund these travel expenses is hard I'm sure.
Obviously why Skoda and other small teams only do limited rallies in Europe due to the low budget they have to work with.

[Daniel]

Steve, the only problem with Group A was that you had to have a 2ltr turbo 4wheel drive in your production line up, as we can see in GpN only 2 makers have this, change was needed but unfortunately while I feel the WRC car idea was well founded, (it let Seat, Skoda, Ford, Peugeot, Citroen and Hyundia come and play) it has been let run too far un checked.

I know this isnt going to be a popular idea here, and it will never happen, but I'd like to see the top level of rally 2ltr 4WD spaceframed, front engined with only enough electrics to keep it road legal, I think its a crazy notion to start to build a pure bred racing machine from a road going base which has been compromised in every area from its conception in the interests of cost

But that's the whole draw. Unless you have Group B style cars which are blindingly fast (and dangerous) then half of the draw of the WRC is the fact that the cars are loosely based on something you can go out and buy :)

[AndyRAC]

Anything that cuts costs has got tot be good, I'd say have 12 rallies, (Monte Carlo, Acropolis, 1000 Lakes, Rally GB permament), revolve the rest. Though I can't imagine that'd be popular, the F1A want to milk every opportunity to rake in the cash.
The cars are now far too expensive, and are they really that spectacular??

[StevoEvo]

Anything that cuts costs has got tot be good, I'd say have 12 rallies, (Monte Carlo, Acropolis, 1000 Lakes, Rally GB permament), revolve the rest. Though I can't imagine that'd be popular, the F1A want to milk every opportunity to rake in the cash.
The cars are now far too expensive, and are they really that spectacular??
To be honest Andy, I prefered the bark and cackle of the old Grp A Impreza to the current WRC machine.
Or the popping and banging Escort Cossie to the Focus WRC.
And who can forget the fire spitting Celica's
Just as spectacular to watch and at half the price of WRC cars :)

[Daniel]

To be honest Andy, I prefered the bark and cackle of the old Grp A Impreza to the current WRC machine.
Or the popping and banging Escort Cossie to the Focus WRC.
And who can forget the fire spitting Celica's
Just as spectacular to watch and at half the price of WRC cars :)
Yes but you're forgetting the cost of homolgation into group A and building the required number of cars and then sometimes selling them at a loss. Then there's the cost of engineering a 4wd turbo roadcar. With the current rules and regulations you can grab any car off the showroom floor and make it into a WRCar and it's cheaper from that point of view. Group A cars were getting more expensive anyway so I think the cost would be up there with the cost of current WRCars if they were still the premier class.

[StevoEvo]

Yes but you're forgetting the cost of homolgation into group A and building the required number of cars and then sometimes selling them at a loss. Then there's the cost of engineering a 4wd turbo roadcar. With the current rules and regulations you can grab any car off the showroom floor and make it into a WRCar and it's cheaper from that point of view. Group A cars were getting more expensive anyway so I think the cost would be up there with the cost of current WRCars if they were still the premier class.

That's what I'm saying Daniel.
Keep the current rule of using any mass produced stock road model, such as the Suzuki Swift, Ford Focus, or even a Renault Megane, meaning that the homogolation of that model is reached with production figures.
Simply Turbo the lump and fit a simple 4x4 system which aint as expensive as WRC systems used today. Allow only basic electrics instead of the radical systems used at present... Costs obviously go up as the price of everything in life increases..

Better still bring back anything goes Grp B regs :D , limit bhp to 400 and let them get on with it lol. If the manufacturer wants it that bad then they fork out the cash for it....

[Daniel]

That's what I'm saying Daniel.
Keep the current rule of using any mass produced stock road model, such as the Suzuki Swift, Ford Focus, or even a Renault Megane, meaning that the homogolation of that model is reached with production figures.
Simply Turbo the lump and fit a simple 4x4 system which aint as expensive as WRC systems used today. Allow only basic electrics instead of the radical systems used at present... Costs obviously go up as the price of everything in life increases..

Better still bring back anything goes Grp B regs :D , limit bhp to 400 and let them get on with it lol. If the manufacturer wants it that bad then they fork out the cash for it....
Yes well they've already got rid of the active front and rear diffs in the cars. If they got rid of the semi-automatic transmission it'd be better.

[AndyRAC]

I'd agree that the sight and sound of the Group A machines was far more imprezive than the current WRCars, which look like they're on rails and sound like strangled farts.
I want to see something spectacular, loud and above all cheap and attractive for potential manufacturers. Maybe we need to look back to go forward.

[Tom206wrc]

Cheers Brother John....
So the speculation about Duval being in a Bozial 307 with Stohl could be true :)



Dudu is also quoted for Suzuki 2007/2008 and Mitsubishi 2007/2008 :mark:

[Daniel]

Dudu is also quoted for Suzuki 2007/2008 and Mitsubishi 2007/2008 :mark:
Trying to raise stocks?

[cut the b.s.]

But that's the whole draw. Unless you have Group B style cars which are blindingly fast (and dangerous) then half of the draw of the WRC is the fact that the cars are loosely based on something you can go out and buy :)


Sorry, forgot to point out, in my plan :-) 2ltr, no turbo, cars would be slower than now and could be built to be at least as safe

[JAM]

The bottom line is "the FIA like to complicate things so much,they always regret it when the s h i t hits the fan and decide to make another stupid desision..................P.S Max Mosely....... do one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not only FIA, but manufacturers also make things dificult. Every manufacturer look at his own interest, nothing else. All the manufacturers want less costs, but when FIA talk in standarize some expensive parts all of them say "No". But on the other hand the manufacturers propose to reduxe number of mechanics in service parks (!!) as if the problem would be there...

Where you have manufacturers is always dificult, even in national championships. You need to have people smart and with good sense managing the federations (world or national) do deal correctly with manufacturers. Is not the case of FIA until today.

[GruppoB]

By no means was I arguing on the behalf of WRC cars. I honestly think that none of the existing formulas offer a good alternative.

I agree completly with A.F.F. there are about 6 too many rounds in the WRC, what the hell was the FIA thinking? I really marvel at those unsung heroes behind each teams logistics.

I call for cars as close to stock but with added power Im not calling for a return to Group B I just like to see all the technology scrapped. bring back completly manual gearboxes! and add about 100hp It would be a hell of alot cheaper and funner to watch, maybe rally cars would go sideways again.

[Tom206wrc]

Dudu is also quoted for Suzuki 2007/2008 and Mitsubishi 2007/2008 :mark:



According to the last rumour, Dudu could be Kopecky's teammate at First-Motorsport with "almost factory Fabias" !!! :)


The story says that Willy Collignon(manager of First) is talking to a big sponsor(no name)that looks interesting in entering rally WRC ;)

[RS]

According to the last rumour, Dudu could be Kopecky's teammate at First-Motorsport with "almost factory Fabias" !!! :)


The story says that Willy Collignon(manager of First) is talking to a big sponsor(no name)that looks interesting in entering rally WRC ;)

Anything that sees Kopecky and Duval in the same team run by either or both First/CRT is good news. I believe Kopecky will get the support from Skoda Auto, so maybe Skoda Belgium can pay up for Francois. I'd imagine they'd get some new Fabias built by Skoda Motorsport as they did this year.

[cut the b.s.]

According to the last rumour, Dudu could be Kopecky's teammate at First-Motorsport with "almost factory Fabias" !!! :)


The story says that Willy Collignon(manager of First) is talking to a big sponsor(no name)that looks interesting in entering rally WRC ;)

Who is Dudu??

[Wim_Impreza]

Who is Dudu??

Duval.

[Integrale]

I agree completly with A.F.F. there are about 6 too many rounds in the WRC, what the hell was the FIA thinking? I really marvel at those unsung heroes behind each teams logistics.

I call for cars as close to stock but with added power Im not calling for a return to Group B I just like to see all the technology scrapped. bring back completly manual gearboxes! and add about 100hp It would be a hell of alot cheaper and funner to watch, maybe rally cars would go sideways again.
I agree with you when you say there are too many rounds. I'll say more: there are too many rallies on the same surface: Turkey, Cyprus, Acropolis & Sardinia.

But why would you want to see technology scrapped, how realistic is that? A manufacturer wants to impress potential buyers of their cars, that is what they entered the WRC for, selling cars! But if the rules would be static and manufacturers couldn't compete against each other by developing new technologies, they wouldn't stay in the WRC.

Okay, sideways action is nice, spectacular driving is nice, but if you want to see that all of the time, go to a drift event. Rally is the sport where you drive over public roads from start to finish as fast as possible.

[A.F.F.]

I might be totally alone with this but haven't rallying gone more sideways after they got rid of active diffs. Having seen the footage this year, the drivers/cars seem to be much more sideways than year before :up:

And what seem to be back too, is scandinavian flicks, at some parts :D

[M5]

Any news on the Fabia S2000, any plans for when testing is supposed to start - and when the project is to be finished and they will start rallying and selling them ?

[Captain VXR]

Probably next season at a guess.

[GigiGalliNo1]

Who is Dudu??

yur a dudu if yu didn't know who dudu is! :D :p haha

[RS]

Fabia S2000 should be presented at Geneva in March, start testing shortly after and may debut as a zero car on the Barum Rally.

[captin 1 VXR]

skoda never had there full hart it to wrc . thay always loved lower class