Will f1 return to Indy or anywhere in the USA

[markabilly]

so if there is to be f1 in Indy or anywhere in the usa, time seems to be running out for 2009

of course some might say that Indy don't need F1 since it has Danica and has submerged Champ Car into non existence........

:confused:

[Ranger]

so if there is to be f1 in Indy or anywhere in the usa, time seems to be running out for 2009

of course some might say that Indy don't need F1 since it has Danica and has submerged Champ Car into non existence........

:confused:

TG will tell you that he wants F1 back at Indy.

The word is that he's looking for commercial sponsorship of the event to help foot the sanctioning fee. Depends how fast he can do that, I suppose.

[ShiftingGears]

so if there is to be f1 in Indy or anywhere in the usa, time seems to be running out for 2009

of course some might say that Indy don't need F1 since it has Danica and has submerged Champ Car into non existence........

:confused:

If it's not returning to Indy then its not returning to the US. Having said that, I don't think many will miss the Indy Road Course, the great US circuits aren't up to F1 standard, and the North American market still has a brilliant, picturesque grand prix in Canada.

[SGWilko]

Why do these track owners' or countries do it...?

They pander to Bernard in every respect - take Indy as an example, they re-profile a new infield just for F1, then they allow Bernard to screw them over.

When will they all get wise to it?

[veeten]

Why do these track owners' or countries do it...?

They pander to Bernard in every respect - take Indy as an example, they re-profile a new infield just for F1, then they allow Bernard to screw them over.

When will they all get wise to it?

Actually, it has been the US that has not let Bernard have it his way.

Consider the USGP during the 60's thru early 80's, first with Watkins Glen and later with Long Beach. Remember, Watkins Glen was the only Grand Prix where the podium were paid their winnings in cash, not with a check, which many liked.
Long Beach was at the begining of the F1 season, with California's warm sunny weather and the stars of Hollywood coming out to see the racing and hob-knob with the teams and drivers.

In the case of Long Beach, Ecclestone overplayed his hand and the talks for the 84 GP came apart over money. And in an interview some years later, He admitted that he made a mistake in letting Long Beach go.

Detroit was a similar song; a pretty good track, active racing, and a backdrop of the Automotive industry in North America. FOM got greedy and the organizers said, 'not at those prices.'

Dallas, Las Vegas, and Phoenix were bad ideas as they were run during the hottest part of the year in the Southwest. It wasn't until the Indy GP that it looked like they were headed back in the right direction.

Unfortunately we saw how those events went, with ill preperation by the teams for one race, a 'fixed' final lap by Ferrari in another, and bad tire selection by the teams in yet another was begining to leave a sour taste in too many mouths. It wasn't until the last race that all had come together and put forth what was best race in the whole time it was there. Bad timing on FOM's part of, yet again, asking for more forced Tony George to let the prior agreement to lapse out.

The difference is that, unlike most areas, the US have options that pay just as good as Formula 1 without all the hassle. Also consider that, for the exception of Ferrari, all other major manufacturers have production in the US (remember, Renault's sister company, Nissan, has several of their vehicles in the US under the Nissan name), and all see the US as their major market in sales & production.
Representation in that market is a must, and while some have adapted to other forms of motorsport (Toyota in NASCAR,... Honda, BMW, Ferrari in ALMS), getting F1 back in the US is a top priority. To make that happen, pressure by the manufacturers and teams will have to be put on the governing body and series management (FIA & FOM). Otherwise, it will be another couple of years that will go by, and with the coming changes in IndyCar's engine & chassis regs that will be quite inticing to manufacturers, that will be a big mistake.

[ASCAR24/7/365.5]

i supose you have to ask why they need f1 in teh states,they have nascar, the nhra and now indycar has reformed they have plenty to keep them busy with some really entertaining racing...yes theres nothing like the buzz of an f1 race but if the yanks are looking for entertainment aswell as racing they will stick to the above 3

[Jag_Warrior]

Personally, I'd rather see the USGP move to Las Vegas. Steve Wynn toyed with the idea of hosting an F1 race in Vegas, with his Le Reve hotel casino as the backdrop. The crowds may not be as large, but it's possible (if not probable) that the revenues would be greater than in Indianapolis.

It's just my opinon that a place like Vegas would better fit with F1's image than Indy. Whether or not Tony George can scrounge up a sponsor for another USGP at Indy, I don't know. It's just my hope that a classier promotoer with a better understanding of what a grand prix weekend is all about could be found.

[wedge]

Unfortunately we saw how those events went, with ill preperation by the teams for one race, a 'fixed' final lap by Ferrari in another, and bad tire selection by the teams in yet another was begining to leave a sour taste in too many mouths. It wasn't until the last race that all had come together and put forth what was best race in the whole time it was there. Bad timing on FOM's part of, yet again, asking for more forced Tony George to let the prior agreement to lapse out.

People hated it on paper because it was Mickey-Mouse roval.

In the right circumstances you had great races and see cars sliding on the edge. Unfortunately Indy will be remembered more for the bad than good.

Would love to see some rich guy bankroll a race on the full course at Miller Motorsports Park.

[markabilly]

Actually, it has been the US that has not let Bernard have it his way.

Consider the USGP during the 60's thru early 80's, first with Watkins Glen and later with Long Beach. Remember, Watkins Glen was the only Grand Prix where the podium were paid their winnings in cash, not with a check, which many liked.
Long Beach was at the begining of the F1 season, with California's warm sunny weather and the stars of Hollywood coming out to see the racing and hob-knob with the teams and drivers.

In the case of Long Beach, Ecclestone overplayed his hand and the talks for the 84 GP came apart over money. And in an interview some years later, He admitted that he made a mistake in letting Long Beach go.

Detroit was a similar song; a pretty good track, active racing, and a backdrop of the Automotive industry in North America. FOM got greedy and the organizers said, 'not at those prices.'

Dallas, Las Vegas, and Phoenix were bad ideas as they were run during the hottest part of the year in the Southwest. It wasn't until the Indy GP that it looked like they were headed back in the right direction.

Unfortunately we saw how those events went, with ill preperation by the teams for one race, a 'fixed' final lap by Ferrari in another, and bad tire selection by the teams in yet another was begining to leave a sour taste in too many mouths. It wasn't until the last race that all had come together and put forth what was best race in the whole time it was there. Bad timing on FOM's part of, yet again, asking for more forced Tony George to let the prior agreement to lapse out.

The difference is that, unlike most areas, the US have options that pay just as good as Formula 1 without all the hassle. Also consider that, for the exception of Ferrari, all other major manufacturers have production in the US (remember, Renault's sister company, Nissan, has several of their vehicles in the US under the Nissan name), and all see the US as their major market in sales & production.
Representation in that market is a must, and while some have adapted to other forms of motorsport (Toyota in NASCAR,... Honda, BMW, Ferrari in ALMS), getting F1 back in the US is a top priority. To make that happen, pressure by the manufacturers and teams will have to be put on the governing body and series management (FIA & FOM). Otherwise, it will be another couple of years that will go by, and with the coming changes in IndyCar's engine & chassis regs that will be quite inticing to manufacturers, that will be a big mistake.


Always about money------how is it that places like Turkey and wherever else like China, pay bernie so well that he does not need the Brit Gp, Spa, the usa GP (which had at one point, the largest or one of the largest crowds of ALL of the F1 races)

Indeed if it were not from all the ego stroking of all the royalty and movie stars et al, at Monaco (which must have the ABSOLUTE WORST FACILITIES and problems for holding a race), it would be gone as well.

I mean there is little man bernie whining whining about silverstone needs this, needs that, more and better facilities and pits; and when you compare it to Monaco for the purely racing point of view, well, Monaco is quite a mess.

Greed, the essence of benie

[anthonyvop]

Always about money------how is it that places like Turkey and wherever else like China, pay bernie so well that he does not need the Brit Gp, Spa, the usa GP (which had at one point, the largest or one of the largest crowds of ALL of the F1 races)


Because it is subsidized by the Government. They don't care about making money.

[ioan]

The day Bernie will stop screwing the best tracks in exchange for more money from some 3rd world country where people starve to death we might see F1 again in the USA.

[ioan]

Actually, it has been the US that has not let Bernard have it his way.

And they were right to do so.

[BenRoethig]

There are exactly three options for a USGP: Indy, Infineon, and Watkins Glen. Sebring, Road Atlanta, Road America, and Laguna Seca don't have the money for improvements or a sanctioning fee and F1 is too large of a risk in those markets to get the kind of financial backing needed. Indy's infield road course isn't the best course in the world, but it has the seting capcity. Watkins Glen needs some improvements and is kind of remote. That leaves Infineon. Northern California is going to be more responsive to F1 than Indiana or New York. It was just remodeled and has by far the most permanent seats and best facilities of any road course in the United states. Of course, neither SMI who owns Infineon or ISC who owns are going to bend over backwards to get a date the way other tracks would.

[cy bais]

I's love to see an F1 race at Infineon. :)

[Tallgeese]

You need at least four GPs in the USA to have an impact but with no American drivers & very little US sponsorship it seems to be wasteful. I wouldn't mind F1 going back to Indy though.

[Jag_Warrior]

The day Bernie will stop screwing the best tracks in exchange for more money from some 3rd world country where people starve to death we might see F1 again in the USA.

We're doing our level best to turn the U.S. into a 3rd world country, so maybe F1 will be back sooner than later. :p :

[markabilly]

We're doing our level best to turn the U.S. into a 3rd world country, so maybe F1 will be back sooner than later. :p :


I guess there is always a little bright spot somewhere in the clouds, but that means it will be about five years from now, and I will not be able to afford the gas to get there, and neither walking or flying will be beyond my reach as well....but if gas is still only $11 a gallon in France, maybe I might go there

[call_me_andrew]

I'm told the odds of TG finding a title sponsor before the 2009 F1 calender is released are 50/50. I think Bernie wants $20 million in sanctioning fees. Without a title sponsor TG would have to sell 150,000 seats at $133.34 each to break even.

I don't see Sears Point (I won't call it that other name) hosting an F1 race. Miller Motorsport Park doesn't want to send another check to the FIA to get a Formula 1 level saftey certification. Watkins Glen has ISC money behind it, but I'm not sure ISC is excited about it. I'm not sure VIR or Barber Motorsports Park have the financial backing. Unless F1 fans are open to the idea of an oval race it'll be near impossible to find a U.S. track with the proper facilites for a Formula 1 size crowd.

[Jag_Warrior]

I'm told the odds of TG finding a title sponsor before the 2009 F1 calender is released are 50/50. I think Bernie wants $20 million in sanctioning fees. Without a title sponsor TG would have to sell 150,000 seats at $133.34 each to break even.

I don't see Sears Point (I won't call it that other name) hosting an F1 race. Miller Motorsport Park doesn't want to send another check to the FIA to get a Formula 1 level saftey certification. Watkins Glen has ISC money behind it, but I'm not sure ISC is excited about it. I'm not sure VIR or Barber Motorsports Park have the financial backing. Unless F1 fans are open to the idea of an oval race it'll be near impossible to find a U.S. track with the proper facilites for a Formula 1 size crowd.

Barber and VIR are club tracks that hold the occasional pro event. I've never been to Barber, but on TV it looks tight and narrow. VIR is a beautiful place. But it's also narrow. And when some FIA town dude mentioned cutting down the Oak Tree, middle aged southern guys in BMW's, Porsches and Jags would likely choose violence as the best option to prevent such a thing.

To bring F1 back to the U.S. is going to take a major backer. If not Tony George, then it'll have to be someone like Wynn. Or maybe that Mark Cuban guy. There's another one with more money than common sense.

[BenRoethig]

Places like Miller and VIR are a pipe dream. They may have F1-type tracks, but they don't have the facilities and quite frankly you're not going to get fans to go to the middle of nowhere in Virginia and next door to an old chemical weapons depot. Believe me, you don't want the stands (if there are any) to be looking like those at a Rays home game. Like I said. Indy, and whine countries of cali and NY state are the only realistic options.

[Scheckterfan54]

With the improvements to Indy's road course, I think it is more condusive to F1 cars and there racing style.

[call_me_andrew]

Without oval turn one, there's nothing to sell on the new Indy course. I don't mind that they took out the twin hairpins, but I didn't know they were shortening the Hullman Boulevard section.

The alternate course I came up with does seem to be a popular one however.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m315/mustang6172/itry2.jpg

[ArrowsFA1]

The word is that he's looking for commercial sponsorship of the event to help foot the sanctioning fee. Depends how fast he can do that, I suppose.
I recall reading somewhere that ING said had they known Indy was looking for sponsorship for the US GP they would have provided it to secure the race :dozey:

[ioan]

I recall reading somewhere that ING said had they known Indy was looking for sponsorship for the US GP they would have provided it to secure the race :dozey:

It's easy to say that after the race is gone. After all everyone knew that the contract wasn't renewed because of the money divergences.

[AndyRAC]

F1 will return to Indy when TGeorge hands over the cash. But good on him for not doing so. It's about time the rest of the countries did the same. Yeah, F1 is a business, but a line must be drawn - there is a thing such a sporting considerations - or there should be!!

[SGWilko]

F1 will return to Indy when TGeorge hands over the cash. But good on him for not doing so. It's about time the rest of the countries did the same. Yeah, F1 is a business, but a line must be drawn - there is a thing such a sporting considerations - or there should be!!

Indeed. The sad fact here is that, Indy made F1 available to the public. The paddock area was opened up etc. If only the rest of the circuits did this.

Bernie obviously thinks as this is the USA he can screw more $ out of them.

F1 needs America a whole lot more than America needs F1, someone needs to wake up to that fact pretty sharpish.

[trumperZ06]

F1 needs America a whole lot more than America needs F1, someone needs to wake up to that fact pretty sharpish.

:D Yep... now that Champ Car has merged (been gobbled up) with Indy Car,

Tony George is likely to wait to see if fan interest picks up.

[AntiSpeed]

Bernie has eastern countries at each other's throats to get on the F1 calendar. Unless Tony's willing to bend over backward and outbid the other countries there really isn't any reason for Bernie to come here.

[cy bais]

Bernie has eastern countries at each other's throats to get on the F1 calendar. Unless Tony's willing to bend over backward and outbid the other countries there really isn't any reason for Bernie to come here.

Probably right with that analysis.

[trumperZ06]

Bernie has eastern countries at each other's throats to get on the F1 calendar. Unless Tony's willing to bend over backward and outbid the other countries there really isn't any reason for Bernie to come here.

:dozey: Hhmmmm.... seems very short sighted when you consider that...

The US is the largest single Market for:

Mercedes
BMW
Honda
Toyota

Probably at the top of the list with Red Bull and Nissan (Renault) too !!!

;) But we really have a multitude of racing series and certainly don't seem to miss the FIA's president...

Mad Max and his egregious sex preferences.

[Shifter]

Don't forget about street circuits. There has to be an Adelaide hidden somewhere in the USA.

[cy bais]

Don't forget about street circuits. There has to be an Adelaide hidden somewhere in the USA.

I'd like for F1 to return to the US but not the Indy track. Just me but Vegas anyone ?

:)

[gloomyDAY]

I'd like for F1 to return to the US but not the Indy track. Just me but Vegas anyone ?

:) Let me see....

Friday - Practice
Get some drinks with the guys, gamble, hit the track, gamble some more, go to a club and sleep with a stranger, and crash at the hotel.

Saturday - Qualifying
Wake up late and make your way to the track. Sit around with a hangover wondering if you have a STD from the hot blonde the night prior. Once qualifying is done with you're burnt out and take a nap in the hotel. Then, your buddy wakes you up at 22 to go to a pool party and don't get back until 3.

Sunday - Race
The chlorine from the pool is scorching your eyes, but you get up early and slap on some sunglasses. Now you're feeling tired and grumpy. Before getting into the stands you realise that your ticket is back at the hotel. You go back pissed off and come back to the track only to see the last 15 minutes of the race. Out of the blue you start getting an itch in the "danger zone" :eek: and then you're startled to find out that the blonde gave you a gift that keeps on giving.

Vegas sounds great!

[BenRoethig]

Don't forget about street circuits. There has to be an Adelaide hidden somewhere in the USA.

They tried that with Detroit, Phoenix, Vegas, and the complete disaster known as Dallas. The only success was Long Beach and there is no way Tony George is going to give that up now that he has it. Trust me, the only viable place is in the wine country of Northern California.

[gloomyDAY]

They tried that with Detroit, Phoenix, Vegas, and the complete disaster known as Dallas. The only success was Long Beach and there is no way Tony George is going to give that up now that he has it. Trust me, the only viable place is in the wine country of Northern California.Infenion?

[markabilly]

Let me see....

Friday - Practice
Get some drinks with the guys, gamble, hit the track, gamble some more, go to a club and sleep with a stranger, and crash at the hotel.

Out of the blue you start getting an itch in the "danger zone" :eek: and then you're startled to find out that the blonde gave you a gift that keeps on giving.

Vegas sounds great!
As long as it itches, it is nothing to worry over.......it is what shows up 6 months or a year later, with the sore throat, the infections and so forth, that just will not go away..... :(

There is already one heckfire of a race track, Seca, that deserves the F1--of course all the other stuff ain't and never will be up to bernie's high ideals and all for facilities :s mokin:

And those facilities are not those intended for the run of the mill fans, but for the jet setters and such......as though it should be enough to do a Mike Douglas and get to hang out in the Mac pits during Qing... :rolleyes:

The problem for Waktins was in the later years one of crowd control and such, where folks like Douglas and so forth are never to be seen

[D28]

If F1 doesn’t return to Indy, and the chances don’t look great, I cannot see a US Grand Prix anytime soon.
Tony George invested millions to build a new track strictly for F1, no other promoter is going to spend the necessary sums, only to be held to ransom when contract renewal comes due. The sad examples of Phoenix and Dallas are apparent.
I feel that Indy is a suitable venue, although the infield track could be redesigned to make it much quicker.
Indy does have a long time connection with F1, being on the WC calendar until 1960. As early as 1952, Alberto Ascari put an outclassed F1 Ferrari into the show. Over the years, 13 World Champions have competed quite well in the 500, 5 have won the race. Since the track hosts the biggest motor race in the world each May, the facilities must be adequate, even Bernie can’t legitimately complain.
There are plenty of American F1 fans, but the ones who remember Watkins Glen and Long Beach must be greying rapidly. It has been a generation since an American driver was a front runner and winner (Mario 1978). In the US racing is inverted, in that the very best drivers are lured into sedan racing (NASCAR) instead of open wheel racing , as in the rest of the world. Without a competitive American driver, F1 continues to be a very hard sell. Ten years of internecine fighting between Tony George and CART has simply allowed NASCAR to get a strangle hold on sponsors, TV ratings, everything.

NASCAR produces close exciting racing, but it is not a good training series for formula cars. The current trend is from formula cars to NASCAR, a very difficult transition; the reverse movement would be even more difficult. In the past, open wheel aces such as Foyt, Andretti, Gurney and Jones entered selected NASCAR events and won; I cannot recall any USAC races being won by NASCAR pilots.
Without a strong support road racing series like Formula Atlantic, I see little hope for an American in F1 in the near future.

[harvick#1]

MillerMotorsports Park
Watkins Glen
Sebring
Road America
Portland (maybe)

those are prolly the best 4-5 best road courses in America.

while I love to see F1 come back, I'll like to see WRC come to the US :D

[trumperZ06]

;) Hhmmm... Sebring Sucks... needs repaving badly.

Panoz looked at repaving Sebring a couple of years ago (2005)... for Champ Car racing.

Repaving... Woulda cost ~ 12 million dollars on track repair alone.

Road Atlanta's been repaved and ranks amongst the best Road Courses in America.

VIR with repaving.... would be at the top of the list too.

Barber... a very tight technical track certainly deserves to be included.

None of these tracks meet/would meet FIA F-1 standards,

although Miller comes close.

We hear the cost to have the track "surveyed" by the FIA for F-1 approval,

is in the millions of dollars (~ 12), so, that's not likely to happen.

Long Beach was GREAT... years ago...

but the FIA priced themselves right out of town.

Don't know if you could convince the retirees to put up with two races/year in Long Beach, even if the town was willing to pay Bernie's demands.

:s mokin: Trumper

[cy bais]

Let me see....

Friday - Practice
Get some drinks with the guys, gamble, hit the track, gamble some more, go to a club and sleep with a stranger, and crash at the hotel.

Saturday - Qualifying
Wake up late and make your way to the track. Sit around with a hangover wondering if you have a STD from the hot blonde the night prior. Once qualifying is done with you're burnt out and take a nap in the hotel. Then, your buddy wakes you up at 22 to go to a pool party and don't get back until 3.

Sunday - Race
The chlorine from the pool is scorching your eyes, but you get up early and slap on some sunglasses. Now you're feeling tired and grumpy. Before getting into the stands you realise that your ticket is back at the hotel. You go back pissed off and come back to the track only to see the last 15 minutes of the race. Out of the blue you start getting an itch in the "danger zone" :eek: and then you're startled to find out that the blonde gave you a gift that keeps on giving.

Vegas sounds great!

LMAO - nice post !!

[BenRoethig]

They may have the top courses, but they don't have the facilities nor are their regions conducive to F1. The cost in sanction fee and facilities upgrade isn't going to feasible with 50,000 person crowds.

[trumperZ06]

They may have the top courses, but they don't have the facilities nor are their regions conducive to F1. The cost in sanction fee and facilities upgrade isn't going to feasible with 50,000 person crowds.


;) From Bernie's & the international Formula One Jet Setters viewpoint...

Las Vegas is probably the ideal location.

Only problem is... Las Vegas doesn't have a track.

[clavius85]

I started watching F1 regularly at the start of the 2007 season. So I really wasn't able to put together plans, etc. to make it to the USGP. Despite not being a fan of the Indy course (Spa is my favorite), I hope it comes back so I can see a GP at least once.

But one thing confuses me. If the FIA is the so-called "governing body" of F1 - how is it that Bernie gets to choose when and where races will be held? Shouldn't that technically be the job of the FIA? Instead of Bernie picking and choosing races (in third world countries that will give him $$$$).

Oh and Hi, I'm new to the forums. I joined here because this seemed like the most sane F1 message board having visited a few others. :)

[pits4me]

It's easy to say that after the race is gone. After all everyone knew that the contract wasn't renewed because of the money divergences.

TG had other priorities in open wheel. That's where his focus should stay for a few years.

F1 needs to return to USGP East and USGP West following Montreal. The Miami area would be a great fit for the Formula 1 crowd. For the West, a San Diego street race would be a brilliant setting.

http://www.grandprixcities.com/000sitepics/miamitrackmap.jpg

[AntiSpeed]

:dozey: Hhmmmm.... seems very short sighted when you consider that...

The US is the largest single Market for:

Mercedes
BMW
Honda
Toyota

Probably at the top of the list with Red Bull and Nissan (Renault) too !!!



Toyota has NASCAR, Red Bull sponsors a billion different things in the U.S. that get more attention than the F1 race, and having a Renault competing in F1 probably does squat for Nissan.

For the rest, F1 is so fantastically unpopular here that the race probably has very little effect on the manufacturers' visibility.

That, IMO, is why the sport's sponsors haven't put any pressure on Bernie to come back.

[Easy Drifter]

Clavius 85: Why not Mtl? You will need a passport next year but big deal. It has quite a bit of the flavour of a European race. A good percentage of the city is English speaking and almost all are bilingual with French and English. It is also a party town. Book early as everything was sold out this year.

[clavius85]

Clavius 85: Why not Mtl? You will need a passport next year but big deal. It has quite a bit of the flavour of a European race. A good percentage of the city is English speaking and almost all are bilingual with French and English. It is also a party town. Book early as everything was sold out this year.

I would love to go see the race at Montreal. However, I'm in college. And with gas prices what they currently are, driving all the way up to Montreal was out of the question. But I think I'd definitely prefer to visit Montreal and see the race there than at Indy.

[schmenke]

Because it is subsidized by the Government. They don't care about making money.

Not true. Governments invest in an F1 GP because of the local revenues generated by the event.
The Canadian GP, partially subsidised by the government, is a prime example. This year's event generated record-breaking revenues for businesses in and around Montreal.

[schmenke]

:dozey: Hhmmmm.... seems very short sighted when you consider that...

The US is the largest single Market for:

Mercedes
BMW
Honda
Toyota

...

And Ferrari, if I'm not mistaken.

[jso1985]

While I'd love to see F1 in tracks like Road America or Watkins Glen(or as long they don't come back to mickey mouse land AKA Indy i'm okay). one things is true, F1 has survived 59 years without the USGP being a fundamental part of the calendar(or even being part of it), so basically F1 doesn't need to run there

[call_me_andrew]

And Ferrari, if I'm not mistaken.

Ferrari isn't a car company with a race team. It's a race team with a car company.

[Roamy]

Personally, I'd rather see the USGP move to Las Vegas. Steve Wynn toyed with the idea of hosting an F1 race in Vegas, with his Le Reve hotel casino as the backdrop. The crowds may not be as large, but it's possible (if not probable) that the revenues would be greater than in Indianapolis.

It's just my opinon that a place like Vegas would better fit with F1's image than Indy. Whether or not Tony George can scrounge up a sponsor for another USGP at Indy, I don't know. It's just my hope that a classier promotoer with a better understanding of what a grand prix weekend is all about could be found.

Vegas is just a bad idea - plain and simple - too many distractions - it would be a disaster regardless of where they run it in the town. The race has to be the only show it town to make it in most places. Watkins Glenn is the only real option so just redo the track and get on with it

[Easy Drifter]

Much as I would like to see the Glen return it is not going to happen.
It is a NAPCAR controled track and they want no part of F1.
The guardrail would all have to be replaced for safety reasons. It has always been dangerous for formula cars because of design.
Complete new garage, control tower, media complex required.
More paved paddock area.
More runoff/safety features at many corners.
Totally insufficient accomodation in area.
Inadequate access roads.
Bernie and company would demand the track changes which would cost mega millions plus his fee.
No way would there be anything like sufficient return even ammortized over several years.
Elkhart faces many of the same problems.

[call_me_andrew]

Well ISC did invest a lot of money to upgrade the track for IndyCars (new walls, paved runoff areas, etc.). The garage area at Watkins Glen needs to be replaced anyway. The only real changes I think Bernie would demand would be moving the walls back at the Esses.

While ISC may be NASCAR's puppet, it is a publically owned company. If the shareholders want F1, the shareholders get F1.

[Tazio]

Vegas is just a bad idea - plain and simple - too many distractions - it would be a disaster regardless of where they run it in the town. The race has to be the only show it town to make it in most places. Watkins Glenn is the only real option so just redo the track and get on with itI have to disagree with you on this one Fousto my man!
I think Las Vegas is one of the few places in the US that has the entertainment capitol to invest. I don't know how much time you have spent there. Myself quite a bit. I Even lived there for 4 years. Las Vegas is what ever you want to make it as a visitor these days. It's a massive theme park. I was at The BMW Pitlane Park there this year. I even posed the question to Steve Matchett who was M.C.ing the event. He said "sure why not" And I said
"Yea' babe, a 5 hour cruise for me"!
Later!!

[Dzeidzei]

Toyota has NASCAR, Red Bull sponsors a billion different things in the U.S. that get more attention than the F1 race, and having a Renault competing in F1 probably does squat for Nissan.

For the rest, F1 is so fantastically unpopular here that the race probably has very little effect on the manufacturers' visibility.

That, IMO, is why the sport's sponsors haven't put any pressure on Bernie to come back.

If we forget the fact that the Americans will NEVER grow to appreciate the boring world of F1, we should still keep in mind the economic facts. There are only 2 industries making money in the US: weapons and porn movies. The first one is making money artificially, since the Bush administration is making sure more guns are needed.

Every traditional industry, including car manufacturers, are in deep sheit in the US. There wont be any money to be spent on this curious, boring, European style of racing.

So lets just have the situation like it is. F1 will spread around the world, but unless they do something about the track in Montreal, there wont be any races in Northern America in a few years time.

[call_me_andrew]

Well what's wrong with Montreal?

Yeah, the pavement was of some concern, but I think a few concrete patches should fix that.

[Roamy]

I have to disagree with you on this one Fousto my man!
I think Las Vegas is one of the few places in the US that has the entertainment capitol to invest. I don't know how much time you have spent there. Myself quite a bit. I Even lived there for 4 years. Las Vegas is what ever you want to make it as a visitor these days. It's a massive theme park. I was at The BMW Pitlane Park there this year. I even posed the question to Steve Matchett who was M.C.ing the event. He said "sure why not" And I said
"Yea' babe, a 5 hour cruise for me"!
Later!!

Well I have spent enough time there to have contributed to a few light bills. I know Tommy Baker well enough to have heard of his meetings with Bernie and Winn. I was also at the F1 race at sleaser's palace when the had it out back and I thin Alan Jones won it. IMO you would have to build the world's more spectactular track on everyone would come out for a few laps and head for the Holdem table. A street race is just too much of a addon and not enough to WOW. You have to get 100,000 people to fly a big distance to get there because locals give **** all about F1. BTw 5 hrs slow drive from Phoenix?

[call_me_andrew]

I'm still interested in the idea of a grand prix at Daytona.

I've looked over the FIA regulations and I can't find a reason why the motorcycle course wouldn't meet FIA Grade 1.

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.ns ... .09%20.pdf (http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/19E8461BE4251AF7C125742700573593/$FILE/Annexe%20O_08.04.09%20.pdf)

While the new garage area could be modified to serve as a pit road, I'll have to find more regulations for that too.

The race would probably have to start from the existing pit road (a la AMA).

The SAFER barrier might have to be extended to cover the whole front stretch, but that's another thing ISC should do anyway.

And you can't say it doesn't have "character".

[Tazio]

Well I have spent enough time there to have contributed to a few light bills. I know Tommy Baker well enough to have heard of his meetings with Bernie and Winn. I was also at the F1 race at sleaser's palace when the had it out back and I thin Alan Jones won it. IMO you would have to build the world's more spectactular track on everyone would come out for a few laps and head for the Holdem table. A street race is just too much of a addon and not enough to WOW. You have to get 100,000 people to fly a big distance to get there because locals give **** all about F1. BTw 5 hrs slow drive from Phoenix? Agreed, They would need a completely new facility.
BTW I roll from San Diego. 5 hrs is hauling @ss my man! :beer:

[truefan72]

A street circuit in South beach or a purpose built track around Miami would be my #1 choice. Until then, back to Indy.

I think Miami, is the only place ideal for F1 's purposes and provides a backdrop in both scenery and activities to make this an annual pilgrimage for all F1 fans.

Daytona is too entrenched in Nascar, Indy too steeped in IRL/Cart

...if I only had the money.

[ChrisS]

I'm still interested in the idea of a grand prix at Daytona.

I've looked over the FIA regulations and I can't find a reason why the motorcycle course wouldn't meet FIA Grade 1.

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.ns ... .09%20.pdf (http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/19E8461BE4251AF7C125742700573593/$FILE/Annexe%20O_08.04.09%20.pdf)

While the new garage area could be modified to serve as a pit road, I'll have to find more regulations for that too.

The race would probably have to start from the existing pit road (a la AMA).

The SAFER barrier might have to be extended to cover the whole front stretch, but that's another thing ISC should do anyway.

And you can't say it doesn't have "character".

I doubt the Daytona motorcycle course would come anywhere near FIA Grade 1. Its definitely not safe for motorcycles and it only remains there because of its history, Superbikes are no longer the main event of the Daytona 200 because they are too fast to be safe and rain racing is not allowed.

[ioan]

Honestly US doesn't need F1. In fact no country needs F1 to the point of paying the huge fees asked by Bernie.

[Roamy]

I think if F1 is to be taken seriously over here one needs to build a mega track and not try to tie on to some fried chicken deal. Maybe they could build one over the everglades and when the driver goes off you have to get him out before the gators get him. but I would go along with south beach. I think the flight to the west coast is too long for euros so you would probably lose the international flavor if you went to the west coast - of course LA has their own flavor and don't need any influence.

[D28]

While there is no shortage of adequate tracks in the US, each one would require massive investment to get Bernie to agree to a Grand Prix. No promoter would be likely to invest, given the experience of Tony George, or indeed all the other promoters since Long Beach. Bernie has burnt too many bridges for that to happen. The US can get along nicely without F1, either it returns to Iny, or it is history.

[BenRoethig]

Or Bernie takes a hit to his wallet and ego by giving a discount and I don't see that happening either.

[call_me_andrew]

I doubt the Daytona motorcycle course would come anywhere near FIA Grade 1. Its definitely not safe for motorcycles and it only remains there because of its history, Superbikes are no longer the main event of the Daytona 200 because they are too fast to be safe and rain racing is not allowed.

Well that's hardly a fair statement. Public roads aren't safe for motorcycles.

And it's my understanding that the Daytona 200 will be a Superbike race next year.

The IndyCar drivers sure seemed to like it.

[MAX_THRUST]

I think Bernie thought he might get his hands back on Longbeach.

The lack of F1 is good for the IRL series though. As in the CART era Mercedez went CART racing along with Honda and Toyota. If F1 is out of the US and Toyota is winning in NASCAR, then where does that leave the other manufactures if they want to improve there US sales?

I think the US has some of the best road courses in the world, shame they are so obsessed with ovals and street circuits.

[Mikeall]

I'm sure a race will happen at some point when a city decides the best thing to bring in tourists is host an F1 race on their streets. This will continue to happen around the world as long as F1 still races at Monaco.