Privateer Trophy

[alleskids]

Now that Kronos Citroen is clearly a privateer team again :) , we can have a true privateer championship. I count the Stobart team as a privateer, although they have actually the same treatment as Kronos last year: close technical support from the factory. But atleast the level of the drivers is equal to the rest of the field this time (meaning that Loeb was from not from privateer level).
To keep it honest i think we should have the besat 8 results count for this<championship> .
Toni Gardemeister (Mitsubishi) 10 points (1 win)
Jan Kopecky (Skoda) 8 points
Jean-marie Couq (Peugeot) 6 points
Manfrd Stohl (Citroen) 5 points
Gareth MacHale (Ford) 4 points
Mathew Wilson (Ford) 3 points
Frederic Romeyer (Peugeot) 2 points
Henning Solberg (Ford) 1 points

So, who do you think will deserve the titlte best privateer 2007 ? Gardmeister,( if he gets the budget to do more rounds than just the first 3), Galli, Duval (if the Skoda still can be competitve and he learns to use the brakes a beter way) or Latvalla and Solberg ?

[JAM]

You can put Stobart on the group because their Focus WRC06 are very far from the works car. The drivers also give some help, but that Focus... hmmm is the biggest diference.

But a true privateer trophee is good idea. If FIA don't do it, let's do it us.

[SubaruNorway]

But Henning said that they would have the same spec as Ford until a new car comes in the summer

[Donney]

I?d say it will between Solberg, Latvala and Gardemeister.

I choose Gardemeister for his experience.

[WRC1]

Stohl!!!

[ZequeArgentina]

M2 Manufacturers should run a previous year homologation model, Focus is 06, so only Focus 06 is for the moment same homologation (not same car, obviously)

For the championship, only ones compeing in all 16 rounds are Wilson, Latavala, Henning and Sthol. We should get Wilson ot of there and one of those 3 shuld be privateer champion (Stohl is my candidate, with Latvala, very close and then Henning)

[I am evil Homer]

Stohl I think too unless Garde gets a bigger programme.

[FabiaFan]

...Stohl (no matter how many rounds Garde will do, cause also Solberg, Carlsson and Latvalla would earn more points...)

[alleskids]

I reckon Gardemeister a more solid (point)finisher than Latvalla, Wilson, Carlsson and Solberg. So my guess is between Gardemeister and Stohl (with only 8 results counting, as there are several drivers doing the complete season). Overal, all 16 results counting my money is on Stohl. solid drive in a reliable but fast car.

[Tom206wrc]

To me it'll be either Stohl or Carlsson or...Galli !!! :p :

[JAM]

But Henning said that they would have the same spec as Ford until a new car comes in the summer


If in MC Henning's car was at the same level than the works cars, then Henning was even worst than I tought on this first rally.

[Sulland]

If in MC Henning's car was at the same level than the works cars, then Henning was even worst than I tought on this first rally.

Henning needs more asfalt training. He has not done that many km SS on that black stuff.

[cut the b.s.]

If in MC Henning's car was at the same level than the works cars, then Henning was even worst than I tought on this first rally.

his 1st tar event I believe? Didnt do great but what could have been expected?

[Wim_Impreza]

his 1st tar event I believe? Didnt do great but what could have been expected?

Henning has driven last year in Monte-Carlo too.

[RS]

Hmmm, this is a good idea, but Stobart is a tricky one.

I don't think you can really call them privateers when they are run by the same outfit as the works team, doing all 16 rounds and running the same car.

[ZequeArgentina]

I do not want to start a fight here with henning fans, but his performance in Monte was extremely bad.
No one ever had so much difference to Matthew Wilson (not even a gentlemen driver like Perez Companc when drivig the Focus 06 for first time). I rated Henning as a fast driver (not as some here who considere him one of the fastests of all), but did not performed reasonably not even in one stage.

I guess he will show his best in sweden and specially in Norway, but Monte was much worse than anyone could expected.

[WRCfan]

New year new car, going to take some time to bed in...
He will get it together as time goes on, he couldnt have asked for a better car to campaign! :D

[Halvis]

I do not want to start a fight here with henning fans, but his performance in Monte was extremely bad.
No one ever had so much difference to Matthew Wilson (not even a gentlemen driver like Perez Companc when drivig the Focus 06 for first time). I rated Henning as a fast driver (not as some here who considere him one of the fastests of all), but did not performed reasonably not even in one stage.

I guess he will show his best in sweden and specially in Norway, but Monte was much worse than anyone could expected.

Agree, Henning were surprisingly slow. A few stages weren't that bad, but overall it was terrible.

He has said afterwords that he is seeking someone to exchange knowledge on how to be fast on tarmac with.

He had tested the car only once, so I guess he used MC to familiar himself with it. It was also reported yesterday that he will get one day of testing on snow before Sweden, which is very good news.

I must say my hopes for a very good performance, especially in Sweden, are lower now. Even if it was a new car and tarmac, I am worried about his completely lack of speed.

[janneppi]

Henning needs more asfalt training. He has not done that many km SS on that black stuff.
I was watching a rally show on tv where they showed tarmac rally in Norway from last year, is that a new thing?

[A.F.F.]

Agree, Henning were surprisingly slow. A few stages weren't that bad, but overall it was terrible.

He has said afterwords that he is seeking someone to exchange knowledge on how to be fast on tarmac with.

He had tested the car only once, so I guess he used MC to familiar himself with it. It was also reported yesterday that he will get one day of testing on snow before Sweden, which is very good news.

I must say my hopes for a very good performance, especially in Sweden, are lower now. Even if it was a new car and tarmac, I am worried about his completely lack of speed.


I'm stunned :eek:

Halvis, of all people how can you say all this ??

Henning was like a dead eel in Monte but that has nothing to do with Sweden and Norway. It's basicly like Rovanperä put on tarmac and then snow. It's going to be damn sure that Henning a totally different man on snow wether he has a new car or not. :up: read my lips, there will be no lack of speed.

[JAM]

I'm stunned :eek:

Halvis, of all people how can you say all this ??

Henning was like a dead eel in Monte but that has nothing to do with Sweden and Norway. It's basicly like Rovanperä put on tarmac and then snow. It's going to be damn sure that Henning a totally different man on snow wether he has a new car or not. :up: read my lips, there will be no lack of speed.

Henning was really worst than Rovanpera on tarmac...

[A.F.F.]

Henning was worst than anybody in Monte but you guys really think that'll show the direction for two upcoming rallies ?

Then again you might be right. Henning has had a tough luck of getting downgraded machinery. Maybe that's what happened again.

[jure dvorsek]

Best privateer in 2007-very simple answer: M.Stohl. He is fast enough on all surfaces, reliable, has a huge expirience, car that has won last year championship. There are some drivers faster than him, example Gigi Galli, maybe even Latvala, H.Solberg....but if they don't run whole year, they have no chance against Manfred.
About H.Solberg-I expect him ob both snow rallyes to be in front of his brother Peter.Why-he is extra motivated for those two races, Focus 06' is better car than Impreza 06', drives same tires....About his MC-better to forget, it was simply desaster.
I'm very sad for Garde, I think he would be also a competitor for Manfred, but, no many,no funny....

[Halvis]

I'm stunned :eek:

Halvis, of all people how can you say all this ??

Henning was like a dead eel in Monte but that has nothing to do with Sweden and Norway. It's basicly like Rovanperä put on tarmac and then snow. It's going to be damn sure that Henning a totally different man on snow wether he has a new car or not. :up: read my lips, there will be no lack of speed.

He-he, thought that my post would surprise someone! I agree, it will be a different show for Henning on snow, no doubt about that - but I still fear that he won't be that fast as I originally thought.

Nothing would please me more than that I am wrong, of course!

[ZequeArgentina]

That is a neutral opinion from Halvis. Gives credibility to his further comments.
I am glad a discussion did not started.

Henning should improve a lot, having Latvala as a team mate will make him find speed soon, he has no excuses.

[Christina]

Hehe, it would be funny to make a trophy for this privateer championship and award it to the team/driver at the final round of the championship. *plots*

In terms of drivers.. i'm not so sure about manfred after his monte performance. i know you cant judge by one rally, but he did not seem comfortable with the Xsara. I dont know which drivers are doing the full season, but i'd put my money on one of them. So far i think i know of Manfred, Jari-Matti, Henning, matthew.. is Toni doing a full season?

[alleskids]

Funny that you mentioning it Christina. Colin McRae drove a Xsara for the last time in 2003 and found no difference to the 2006 Xsara (at least that was what he said after his first test). And Manfred Stohl drove the Xsara only a year ago and found it changed a lot from the 2005 to 2006 :eek:

[ZequeArgentina]

Strange in what way?
Yopu mean that the 07 Kronos, is not what he had used in 2005, or Colin in 06? (evolution is not probable).

After one year with the wale, and Monte being mostly dry, it may have been a problem of set up for Manfred

[alleskids]

I mean that the feeling is so big in difference. Modifications 2003 and 2006 is a bigger gap with more evolutions/changes than 2005-2006 (the 2007 is the same as 2006). Or Stohl is just a bit honester than the pr talk of McRae. It would be strange if the Xsara of 2006 is almost the same as the 2003 car, with almost nothing changed to the car, which would mean that Citroen has not done much work to the car. Or it could mean that the Fabia WRC is much closer in behaviour than the 307 WRC is to the Xsara WRC. McRae only drove a Fabia in WRC since he was left out of the Citroen team.

[JAM]

That is a neutral opinion from Halvis. Gives credibility to his further comments.
I am glad a discussion did not started.


And that's the way things should be. I'm not surprised.

[Halvis]

That is a neutral opinion from Halvis. Gives credibility to his further comments.
I am glad a discussion did not started.

Henning should improve a lot, having Latvala as a team mate will make him find speed soon, he has no excuses.

Well, I will say that I not even in the past has talked Henning up - as I recall it, I have defended him from certain Finns bashing. They know who they are ;)

[ZequeArgentina]

I know that this is the way things should be, but with some exceptions (luckily more than only some in this forum) usually fans tend to exagerate to the limit soem drivers capabilities and justify any mistake or lack of performance.

Not Halvis case. I had doubt to write my comments on Henning, expecting some violent answers, but then decided to do it because I was extremely surprised by so bad performance.

(I have seen others here praising Henning as better than Pettr or Loeb, which I have never consider valid)

[jso1985]

privateers trophy... a nice idea I still don't know why it isn't implemented.
My vote goes to Stohl, even if Gardemeister seem faster, he's not doing a full calendar, right? so that gives Stohl all the advantage

[jonas_mcrae]

At least henning didnt crash at monte, im sure thats something the guys at Mspor were celebrating

[Glee]

At least henning didnt crash at monte, im sure thats something the guys at Mspor were celebrating

I think Henning completed Monte with one aim: Do not crash!

That would explain some of the lack of speed.

[ZequeArgentina]

Anyway, he almost crashed (or did it with little damaged), in same corner his brother had an off, but continue without loosing time, he did a spin and did not hit anyuthing by miravcle (there was in-car footage for that).

Le`´s see Sweden, and expect some time.

(Stohl almost did an awfull performance. I am not a massive Manfred fan, but always considered him underated since his good and solid performances during early 2000/2 after his group N participations in Top Run Lancers, and later in 206 and Focus WRC, and till 2004 when he got some more attention)

[ZequeArgentina]

sorry, double post.

[Brother John]

Privateer Trophy would be a good idea. :up:
I am curious how Stohl, Galli, Carlsson will perform with the Xsara.
Last year at Kronos, Loeb's car went always to Citroën in France!
The cars for Sordo and Pons remained in Belgium.
I have the feeling that Citroën had only 1 top car!
It would not surprise me that the M1 teams provide downgrade cars to M2 teams and private teams!
Therefore why then no extra trophy for non factory teams and drivers?

[alleskids]

A great battle for the Nordic drivers, Solberg, Carlsson and Gardemeister. To bad Galli could not keep up with them. And Kopecky shows he is an allround driver. Also impressive performanve for the youngsters Ostberg and Flodin.

[alleskids]

Toni Gardemeister 16 points in 2 rounds
Henning Solberg 11 points in 2 rounds
Jan Kopecky 11 points in 2 rounds
Manfred Stohl 10 points in 2 rounds
Daniel Carlsson 8 points in 1 round
Mats Ostberg 4 points
Gareth MacHale 4 points
Mathew Wilson 3 points in 2 rounds
Frederick Romeyer 2 points
Patrick Flodin 2 points
Giggi Galli 1 point

[Peugeot206WRC]

too late

[GigiGalliNo1]

Is it just pure luck the Manfred has had a drive in more rallys (now 3 seasons) then any other privateer? Or just he has the money from sponsors? he's fighting yes as all drivers do but what's so special about him that Galli, Garde and other don't have?!

[alleskids]

Stohl has the luck/pleassure that he has a long lasting relationship with a sponsor, which has supported his dad and now him. But do not forget his talent, which he surley has, otherwise the same sponsor would have dropped him long time ago. Just as Stobart wil not stay with Wilson jr for ever if he is not improving (enough). If Henning is keeping performing in the points and podiums, maybe Expert will support him for a longer periode, and Expert/Solberg wil become synonyum just as Stohl/OMV is.

[Tom206wrc]

Best Xsara driver as a result = Daniel Carlsson

Fastest Xsara driver = Gigi Galli :up:

I must admit that Manfred Stohl disppointed me here :mark:

But for Sweden(and probably Norway too!!) Henning Solberg was clearly THE best privateer driver :bounce:

Matt Wilslow ?? Confirmed what I'm thinking about him: a farce prestented by the british fans as a future rising star ! :laugh:

[MikeD]

Matt Wilslow ?? Confirmed what I'm thinking about him: a farce prestented by the british fans as a future rising star ! :laugh:

He doesn't seem to improve at all. I think it's turning in to a bit of a farce.

[jonas_mcrae]

Garde was up there all rally untill he lost time but was good for him if the lancer proves to be a little more reliable he will get better positions, henning also did very well really waiting for Norway now

[cut the b.s.]

Matt Wilslow ?? Confirmed what I'm thinking about him: a farce prestented by the british fans as a future rising star ! :laugh:


there are many British rally fans who would rather see some other young british talent in his seat, thats not an option unfortunately but surely Malcolm will wake up some day soon and buy Matt a new toy to play with, maybe a football or golf clubs, cant be any worse at those than he is in a rally car and a heck of a lot cheaper to compete in

[pflugi]

Maybe I'm wrong, but has anyone even mentioned that Kopecky could win the so-called privateer championship? Everyone is so focused on Henning, Garde, and Galli that they've ignored the guy with 10 confirmed events who doesn't crash often and seems to keep getting better. Considering the guy is driving a Skoda from 2 years ago, he's always lurking around the top 8--or top 6 on tarmac.

Pretty darn good, I would say. I bet he has 75 "privateer points" by the end of the season.

[Helstar]

You're right and honestly I didn't believe he could have had that 'good' pace on snow with the old Skoda ... also he finished 5th last year in Spain, that means 10 points on privateer points if he double the results lol :D

[Leon]

Maybe I'm wrong, but has anyone even mentioned that Kopecky could win the so-called privateer championship? Everyone is so focused on Henning, Garde, and Galli that they've ignored the guy with 10 confirmed events who doesn't crash often and seems to keep getting better. Considering the guy is driving a Skoda from 2 years ago, he's always lurking around the top 8--or top 6 on tarmac.

Pretty darn good, I would say. I bet he has 75 "privateer points" by the end of the season.

Could not aggree more. He first got my attention not for his asphalt performance but his result in Finland 2006 with a Skoda!
I wonder if he ever got a first class car to show how much of a talent he has.

I cannot forget though his big big crash with the Octavia in his early years. amazing.

[maevad]

Do you know Rally Matador Tatry 2003?

http://www.rally2.com/gallery/gallery/crash/2003tatry_kopecky02.jpg

http://www.rally2.com/gallery/gallery/crash/2003tatry_kopecky03.jpg

http://www.rally2.com/gallery/gallery/crash/2003tatry_kopecky01.jpg

It was really big crash.
Result: Co-driver has broken ankle. And concussion of the brain for both.

[ZequeArgentina]

Could not aggree more. He first got my attention not for his asphalt performance but his result in Finland 2006 with a Skoda!
I wonder if he ever got a first class car to show how much of a talent he has.

I cannot forget though his big big crash with the Octavia in his early years. amazing.

Yep, Kopecky has the speed and is really improving. One to watch for sure.

[FabiaFan]

Yep, Kopecky has the speed and is really improving. One to watch for sure.But still he isn'tthe best in Czech republic, unfortunately Kresta has not that background... If he just could stay with Ford for just one more year... he would probably grow, like Hirvonen did...

[ZequeArgentina]

Kresta was good fur sure.
I am not able to rate him better than Kopecky or the other way round, at the tiem they competed together Kresta had more experience and better machinery, but both are good drivers.
I had an excellent comment of him from Perez Companc, when Kresta set up the car for his first tests with M-Sport, and how naturally hi drove it, and decided set up changes

[FabiaFan]

I can compare them, because whenever they (rarely) meet in the Czech rally championship, with similar cars (like M Evo XIII or IX), Kresta outpaces both Czech rally champion Pech and this Kopecky by almost half a class...

[Integrale]

Nice initiative, this privateer cup. I think the trophy will go to Galli, he'll grow in the season and he has already shown some speed. I don't see Stohl, Solberg or Carlsson outpace him on gravel. Maybe Gardemeister can give him a run for his money. And we must not forget the Skoda-boys, not only Kopecky but also Duval. Too bad he only drives 9 rallies (where there are many privateers).

[Helstar]

Nice initiative, this privateer cup. I think the trophy will go to Galli, he'll grow in the season and he has already shown some speed. I don't see Stohl, Solberg or Carlsson outpace him on gravel. Maybe Gardemeister can give him a run for his money. And we must not forget the Skoda-boys, not only Kopecky but also Duval. Too bad he only drives 9 rallies (where there are many privateers).
Nope, Gigi does 8 rallies only, and one is already out (with 1 point only) ... Stohl and H.Solberg do all 16 rounds. Can't see how he can get more points of them. Maybe if he wins them all LOL impossible !! Would be a real miracle already one victory ^^

[Integrale]

You're right, I thought he drove more rallies. Nonetheless I expect something from Gigi this year.

[pflugi]

Wow--that's a massive crash! Kopecky hasn't had any bad crashes lately, though, right? I think he had at least one in 05, but I'll have to check.

This privateer championship is probably going to the person that makes the fewest big mistakes--kinda like a 2wd championship in America. Keep finishing 12th or better in almost every rally and wind up in first place.

Too bad a private company isn't putting some cash on the line for it.

[FabiaFan]

So what's the standings? Does anybody count?

[Lousada]

1 H. Solberg - 10
2 J. Latvala - 8
3 G. Galli - 6
4 D. Carlsson - 5
5 J. Kopecky - 4
6 R. DalsjØ - 3
7 A. Mikkelsen - 2
8 P. Flodin - 1

[alleskids]

Driver - Points - Rounds
Henning Solberg 21 pts in 3 rounds
Toni Gardemeister 16 pts in 3 rounds
Jan Kopecky 15 pts in 3 rounds
Daniel Carlsson 13 pts in 2 rounds
Manfrd Stohl 10 pts in 3
Jari Matti Latvalla 8 pts in 3
Gigi Galli 7 pts in 2
Jean-Marie Couq 6 pts in 1
Gareth MacHale 4 pts in 1
Mads Ostberg 4 pts in 2
Mathew Wilson 3 pts in 3
Rune Dalsjo 3 pts in 1
Patrick Flodin 3 pts in 2
Frederick Romeyer 2 pts in 1
Andreas Mikkelsen 2 pts in 1

[Lousada]

erm double post

[alleskids]

I stil not get the tabs under control. can somebody tell me how to do them ?

[alleskids]

Henning Solberg did what was expected of him in Norway, and also in Sweden. Jari-Matti Latvalla also was impressive, he could have been charging for the podium without the 1min 30 penalty. Lets waihght and see if Henning can be top privateer at the end.
The <local yought> also performed good, although a surprise in the points from Ostberg, Mikkelsen was a bit expected, as was from Hanninen.

[Roy]

Driver - Points - Rounds
Henning Solberg 21 pts in 3 rounds
Toni Gardemeister 16 pts in 3 rounds
Jan Kopecky 15 pts in 3 rounds
Daniel Carlsson 13 pts in 2 rounds
Manfrd Stohl 10 pts in 3
Jari Matti Latvalla 8 pts in 3
Gigi Galli 7 pts in 2
Jean-Marie Couq 6 pts in 1
Gareth MacHale 4 pts in 1
Mads Ostberg 4 pts in 2
Mathew Wilson 3 pts in 3
Rune Dalsjo 3 pts in 1
Patrick Flodin 3 pts in 2
Frederick Romeyer 2 pts in 1
Andreas Mikkelsen 2 pts in 1

Drivers who can score for a MT are in the privateer trophy?! :\
It's up to you. I watch the 'normal leaderboard'
http://www.fia.com/sport/Championships/WRC/2007/Standings/drivers.html

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Drivers who can score for a MT are in the privateer trophy?! :\
It's up to you. I watch the 'normal leaderboard'
http://www.fia.com/sport/Championships/WRC/2007/Standings/drivers.html

They're not part of the three factory teams though (BP Ford, SWRT & CWRT).

[J.Lindstroem]

Henning Solberg will take this with his 16 rounds, no question about it! :S

[alleskids]

Drivers who can score for a MT are in the privateer trophy?! :\
[/url]

It is true that the Stobart team is a question mark, as they have very tight links with the BP Factory team, but they have a year old homologation. And they pay for the cars and the service. You can see in the service area and equipement that the OMV Kronos team is a true privateer team (again). Also the Munchi team is a privateer team with true privateer drivers (with al due respect ofcourse).

[jso1985]

I don't the Stobbart boys should be counted on the "privateer" trophy, they have full support from M-sport

[DonJippo]

It is true that the Stobart team is a question mark, as they have very tight links with the BP Factory team, but they have a year old homologation.

They have same homologation version as BP factory team.

[Brother John]

They have same homologation version as BP factory team.

Maybe it is the other way around! :D
BP factory team still have the same homologation as the Stobart Team because they all drive the Focus 06!

[alleskids]

Keeping the Stobart team out of the Privateer Trophy, including Mathew Wilson :) , I get the next standing:
Gardemeister 18 points (1 win)
Carlsson 18 points (1 win)
Kopecky 18 points
Galli 12 points (1 win)
Stohl 11 points