View Full Version : Ferrari strategy faltering?
aryan
25th May 2008, 15:56
At this point in the season, Ferrari has the fastet package on the grid, irregardless of the track. Whether it's a high downforce or a high speed track, I think no one will dispute that their car is fastest.
But... this is now the second race, after Melbourne, that they've lost to McLaren on strategy.
Today they acted like amateurs. First the fiasco with not putting kimi's tyres on time, the issues with Massa's pit stop.. and finally, being the most conservative of all teams when it came to putting on the grooves.
I'm certain they can still win by virtue of having the fastest car, but are they perhaps missing Ross Brawn and his faultless strategies?
At least Massa wasn't shy to say they were wrong. Maybe they needed a kick in the back side.
They didn't do very well in Turkey where Kimi lost 2nd to Hamilton. Today were even worse and they lost 1st and 2nd by making the wrong calls.
They kept Massa out to long while he was running in traffic, than they switched to a 1 stop strategy only to be the last ones to go with dry weather tires, this last mistake costing them 2nd pace.
They might be good strategists when everything goes as they thought, but as soon as one of the parameters is wrong they don't seem to be able to adapt to the situation.
They were very very poor for 2 races in a row.
F1boat
25th May 2008, 16:08
Well, the new Italian bosses if the team are not as experienced as old Ron - no reason to panic yet...
wedge
25th May 2008, 16:08
Wet/changeable conditions, numerous SCs doesn't seem to suit the Ferrari team as a whole.
Remember Fuji where they were penalised for having the wrong tyres.
There were some cock-ups in Canada last year, IIRC
They're missing Ross Brawn who knows the regulations off by heart and can make quick and decisive decisions.
Massa mentioned he was having conversations with the team whereas the calibre of Alonso he was dictating strategy to the Renault boys!
veeten
25th May 2008, 16:19
I believe that it was the 2nd half of the race that did Ferrari in.
The cars were set up for a wet race, but as soon as the track started to dry it went away from them. Prior to Rosberg's accident, the lap separation times for Hamilton were growing by leaps, up to 40 seconds ahead of Massa. Even Kubica was staying ahead, which tells me that both McLaren/Mercedes & BMW were on more of a neutral setup; keeping pace in the wet and making good performance when the conditions were drying.
Ferrari tried, by going to dry tyres and adding front wing downforce, but it wasn't enough to compensate. Massa had no chance against Hamilton and a harder time trying to pass Kubica. Thus, they had to settle for 3rd.
Massa mentioned he was having conversations with the team whereas the calibre of Alonso he was dictating strategy to the Renault boys!
We all saw how that ended for Alonso! :p :
On the other hand Massa said he had no radio for the last 20 laps, how was he having conversations with the team in this case :?:
I would say they lost it when they kept Massa out in the traffic and than decided for a 1 stop strategy, just to revert to a 2 stop because of the drying track, and they compounded that with a bad pit stop to make sure he didn't keep his 2nd place.
F1boat
25th May 2008, 16:24
I would say they lost it when they kept Massa out in the traffic and than decided for a 1 stop strategy, just to revert to a 2 stop because of the drying track, and they compounded that with a bad pit stop to make sure he didn't keep his 2nd place.
yes, like the weird pit tactic in Melbourne.
aryan
25th May 2008, 16:29
And ioan is right, Kimi's loss of second place in Istanbul can also be directly attributed to Ferrari's strategy.
Sleeper
25th May 2008, 18:33
And ioan is right, Kimi's loss of second place in Istanbul can also be directly attributed to Ferrari's strategy.
How so? the 2 stop strategy was faster but Hamilton jumped him on 3 stops by driving out of his skin.
aryan
26th May 2008, 04:28
How so? the 2 stop strategy was faster but Hamilton jumped him on 3 stops by driving out of his skin.
Wrong tyre.
The harder tyre was the tyre to be on the middle stint, it was much faster than the option. Ferrari chose to remain on the softer tyre in the wrong time of the race.
Without that, Massa would have won by 20 sec, and Hamilton wouldn't have even been close enough to Kimi to challenge him during his stop.
Storm
26th May 2008, 07:06
At least Massa wasn't shy to say they were wrong. Maybe they needed a kick in the back side.
Exactly ! I am not a big fan of Massa but I thought he had a race win which went away because of some poor strategy by his team...he did very well in qualifying and did as much as possible in the race
Also the penalty Kimi got for not having tyres fitted at the 3 min mark was stupid to say the least....not what is expected from a top champion team.
ArrowsFA1
26th May 2008, 08:34
At least Massa wasn't shy to say they were wrong. Maybe they needed a kick in the back side.
It was unusual to hear Felipe criticise the team publicly though.
SGWilko
26th May 2008, 09:56
It was unusual to hear Felipe criticise the team publicly though.
Does he know something we don't perhaps? ;)
Does he know something we don't perhaps? ;)
Yeah, they messed up twice in a row and someone had to tell them to get serious about their job.
Without Felipe driving like a possessed they wouldn't have got 2 podiums and one pole position in Monaco in 2007 and 2008.
Ranger
26th May 2008, 13:40
Yeah, they messed up twice in a row and someone had to tell them to get serious about their job.
Without Felipe driving like a possessed they wouldn't have got 2 podiums and one pole position in Monaco in 2007 and 2008.
If Felipe was driving like a man possessed in the best car on the grid and only managing podiums, I would be worried!
Both Felipe and the team made mistakes on Sunday. **** happens. They got beaten on Sunday. Though it did sound like he was having a bit of a whinge in that press conference, which could probably have been done behind closed doors.
If Felipe was driving like a man possessed in the best car on the grid and only managing podiums, I would be worried!
With the wrong strategy you can't win a race with 2 SC periods and changing conditions.
And if putting that car with a lot more fuel on pole in Monaco wasn't driving like possessed than I don't know how we should call it.
xyz123
26th May 2008, 16:23
I don't think they were quite so bad on strategy as people are saying. Yes, there were mistakes, but leaving Massa out at the end longer then everyone else was a gamble that didn't pay off. If it had have done it was their only chance of winning the race.
Their mistake was fuelling both cars so heavy at the first stops as both were very slow in the middle part of the race.
Leaving Massa out longer when everyone else was switching to dry tyres was the gamble. If the forecast rain had of arrived then other cars would have needed another pit stop for inters and maybe (if he was carrying enough fuel) Massa would not have had to stop again. That was Ferrari's only chance of victory unless Hamilton ran into trouble. Sometimes gambles pay off, sometimes they don't. If it had have done this thread would have been about what master tacticians they are instead.
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