The Chase has just become dumber

[harvick#1]

http://www.thatsracin.com/mld/thatsracin/16519676.htm


Chase Adjustments:
The Chase – consisting of the season’s last 10 races – will further reflect the importance of racing to win, via a variety of adjustments.


During the format’s first three years, the top 10 drivers in points after the 26th race of the season (at Richmond International Raceway) qualified for the Chase; in addition, any other driver outside the top 10 but within 400 points of the standings’ leader was also eligible.


Starting this season, the 400-point cut-off is eliminated.


Also, after Race 26, the top 12 drivers in the points will qualify for the Chase.

All 12 drivers will have their point totals re-set to 5,000; each will then receive a 10-point bonus for each race victory they had during the first 26 races.

The Chase drivers will be “seeded” to start the Chase based on the number of wins amassed during the regular season.

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I guess Nascar no longer wants to reward consistency :rolleyes:

[RaceFanStan]

Starting this season, the 400-point cutoff is eliminated,
the top 12 drivers in the points after Race 26 will qualify for the Chase.

All 12 drivers will have their point totals re-set to 5,000,
each will then receive a 10-point bonus for each race victory they had during the first 26 races.

In line with the Chase adjustments, wins throughout the season will be more valuable.
Race winners throughout the 36-race season will now receive 185 points, a five-point increase.

http://www.nascar.com/2007/news/headlines/cup/01/22/chase.changes/index.html
================================================== ==========
I think this is a major step in the right direction. http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/thum/ua.gif

(BTW, I didn't see this thread when I started mine)

[SmokeFan20]

I don't like the new system, I LOVE the new system.

This new chase system caters to the drivers that actually want to win races.
Not the wussy play-it-safe point racers that only care about the championship and nothing else.
Winning isn't everything. It's the only thing.
2nd place is just the first loser.

I know. Not rewarding the points leader/best regular season driver after chase starts is a little iffy.
But if the points leader/best regular season driver wants to be rewarded when the chase starts, they'll have to work for it by winning the most regular season races.

[call_me_andrew]

Didn't they announce this a few weeks ago?

[SmokeFan20]

Didn't they announce this a few weeks ago?

It was reported by Jayski, but NASCAR didn't confirm it until this week.
Plus the "Seeding by wins" thing wasn't even heard of until this week.

[jslone]

I want to wait and see how this works,I like the old style points system but would have the top 10 in points qualify for the Chase.

[Alexamateo]

I'd like to see it stay at 10, and wish the top 3 or top 5 would get significantly more points than the rest of the field, but this is a step in the right direction.

[BenRoethig]

My view on this: a win should be 200 points even before bonuses, the chase field should be top 15, and they should have kept the points offset.

[Mark in Oshawa]

I hate the 12 guys getting in, 10 was a good number, but now they are rewarding wins, so I think it is worth a shot. Most of the purists hate the chase so it really doesn't matter. Count me more or less as a purist......

[dwboogityfan]

I never liked the Chase how it was and NASCAR has changed it because Dale Jr and Jeff Gordon missed it in '05 and Tony Stewart missed it last year. Even NASCAR directly mentioned these three drivers in the press conference.
I wonder if a guy like Matt Kenseth, who has achieved as much as Dale Jr (if not more), had missed the chase instead of Stewart if the number would have been changed from 10 to 12. What happens if Dale Jr finishes 13th in points, will it be 14 drivers in 2008 and so on.
The points for winning could be a good thing, but again it eliminates the skill of points racing. Yes it may be slightly less exciting to see a guy finish 5th every week but it is arguably a better achievement than winning 1 race a season and finishing 25th in points.
Had the Chase been 12 spots throughout Nascar history would we still think of guys like Richard Petty and Dale Earnhardt as legends? It is unlikely they would have won seven championships.
Worse still NASCAR has ignored the biggest problem facing the sport in '07. There will be around 50 full time teams and around 55-60 cars trying to make the Daytona 500. Why then should they be only going for 8 (7 with that silly champions provisional) spots. Its possible that a driver could finish 4th in his Gatorade Duel and go home. Thats ridiculous and NASCAR needs to change the top 35 rule. Go back to 2 round qualifying and only award 3 provisionals based on owner points,

[RaceFanStan]

I didn't like the chase & I still don't particularly care for it ... :eek:
however it is here to stay & I am glad they tweaked it. :D

[tstran17_88]

I think we'll more drivers wrecking each other for the win now.

[harvick#1]

I never liked the Chase how it was and NASCAR has changed it because Dale Jr and Jeff Gordon missed it in '05 and Tony Stewart missed it last year. Even NASCAR directly mentioned these three drivers in the press conference.
I wonder if a guy like Matt Kenseth, who has achieved as much as Dale Jr (if not more), had missed the chase instead of Stewart if the number would have been changed from 10 to 12. What happens if Dale Jr finishes 13th in points, will it be 14 drivers in 2008 and so on.
The points for winning could be a good thing, but again it eliminates the skill of points racing. Yes it may be slightly less exciting to see a guy finish 5th every week but it is arguably a better achievement than winning 1 race a season and finishing 25th in points.
Had the Chase been 12 spots throughout Nascar history would we still think of guys like Richard Petty and Dale Earnhardt as legends? It is unlikely they would have won seven championships.
Worse still NASCAR has ignored the biggest problem facing the sport in '07. There will be around 50 full time teams and around 55-60 cars trying to make the Daytona 500. Why then should they be only going for 8 (7 with that silly champions provisional) spots. Its possible that a driver could finish 4th in his Gatorade Duel and go home. Thats ridiculous and NASCAR needs to change the top 35 rule. Go back to 2 round qualifying and only award 3 provisionals based on owner points,

very well said :up:

[BobbyC]

The seed-by-wins idea is wrong. You're telling me a driver who wins 10 races, finishes 10th because of DNF's, can start as the top seed, while the regular-season champion, a driver who wins just two races and makes no mistakes has to make up 80 points on the inconsistent bloke?

[SmokeFan20]

The seed-by-wins idea is wrong. You're telling me a driver who wins 10 races, finishes 10th because of DNF's, can start as the top seed, while the regular-season champion, a driver who wins just two races and makes no mistakes has to make up 80 points on the inconsistent bloke?

The guy with ten wins in 10th is most likely in that position because he gave 110% every race wanting to win and it didn't pay off because the engine gave out, tire blew or they spun the car while driving on the ragged edge.
The guy that is leading the points with 2 measley wins didn't DNF because he didn't even try to win races and just stroked his way to the points lead with a bunch of 5th place finishes.

I'll take the guys that want to win over the 5th placing championship strokers any day.
I have more respect for a guy that puts his car into the wall while going balls out for the win than the guy that is afraid to try and gain a position because of the "points".

[djparky]

being a purist I've never liked the "chase" idea- personally I think the champion should be the driver who does consistently the best job over the season- rather than in the last 10 races...which is what happened when Kenseth won it in 2003

at least in 2006 the right man did win the title as Jimmie Johnson was consistently the best driver over the course of the season

oh and I agree about this provisional grid placing nonsense- everyone should qualify (or not) on the basis of their speed on the day- if they're quick enough then they'll make the race- if not then well tough luck!

[Sparky1329]

I think we'll more drivers wrecking each other for the win now.

At least they'd be racing for a win rather than playing it safe.

[Hoss Ghoul]

So does this mean we can stop hearing about the $1million "chase" for 11th place? Or is that just going to be put back at 13th now? Obviously that would be stupid, but this is NASCAR...

[harvick#1]

I don't like the new system, I LOVE the new system.

This new chase system caters to the drivers that actually want to win races.
Not the wussy play-it-safe point racers that only care about the championship and nothing else.
Winning isn't everything. It's the only thing.
2nd place is just the first loser.

I know. Not rewarding the points leader/best regular season driver after chase starts is a little iffy.
But if the points leader/best regular season driver wants to be rewarded when the chase starts, they'll have to work for it by winning the most regular season races.

go to F1 then if you want winning to be everything. Nascar has always been about consistency, hense why their schedule is 2/3rds longer than anyother series and the points are only 5 to 3 points apart.

Yes a driver may win 8 races and people complain why he wasn't the champ, cause its all about consistency, winning and wrecking is going to get you anywhere but beening able to run in the top 10 every week earns you the right to win a championship.

then Nascar decides to allow 12 drivers in this year for one main reason. Jeff Gordon and Dale Jr. failed to make the chase in 05', then was topped off when Tony failed to make the chase in 06'. so what if the big three or JJ fail to make the chase this year, does it mean the top 15 get to be in next, if so then Nascar might as well give up the chase and just award Jeff, Dale, Tony, or Jimmie the Championship every year :rolleyes:

[tstran17_88]

At least they'd be racing for a win rather than playing it safe.That I could handle, but not if it's payback like Gordon and Kenseth at Chicagoland.

[Mark in Oshawa]

It will be interesting. I was not a fan of the chase, but I have always thought wins should have more meaning. Watching a guy win a championship with 1 win when another 5 or 6 guys win 2 to 5 races didn't do it for me either. As much as I like Terry Labonte, when he won his first Championship, I believe if I am not mistaken that he never won a race that year. Driving around for points just doesn't say excitement to me. At least now guys will have an incentive to run hard and get that win. Hearing some guy yap about "I had a 10th place car today" while he finished 10th just makes me laugh. Never settle for mediocrity....

[cgs]

So does this mean we can stop hearing about the $1million "chase" for 11th place? Or is that just going to be put back at 13th now? Obviously that would be stupid, but this is NASCAR...

i can see them refering to it as "unlucky 13th"

[Mark in Oshawa]

Maybe in 10 years, the chase will be the top 20 cars, after Jeff Gordon has a 19th place finish in the points!!!

[muggle not]

I was glad though to see them reduce the Champion provisionals from unlimited to six. Good move.

[RaceFanStan]

It won't hurt Dale Jarrett, after the 1st 4 races his car will be in the top 35 in owner's points. :laugh:
After Dale starts the 1st few races, he & his Toyota will be good enough for top 25 finishes. :D

[RaceFanStan]

..... As much as I like Terry Labonte, when he won his first Championship,
I believe if I am not mistaken that he never won a race that year .....
You ARE mistaken ! http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif
Terry Labonte won 2 races when he got his 1st Championship in 1984. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif
Terry Labonte also won 2 races when he got his 2nd Championship in 1996. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif

[Hoss Ghoul]

You ARE mistaken ! http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif
Terry Labonte won 2 races when he got his 1st Championship in 1984. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif
Terry Labonte also won 2 races when he got his 2nd Championship in 1996. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif

I don't believe there's ever been a champion without a race win. Is that correct stat-man Stan?

[Speedworx]

Making it 12 drivers = :)

Reseeding = WHY!?

Thats completely stupid and pointless. The driver 1st in points should be first when the chase begins. This is a major step backwards.

Well done NASCAR, you ruined the chase!

[BenRoethig]

I don't believe there's ever been a champion without a race win. Is that correct stat-man Stan?

Not in nextel cup. Todd Bodine won the busch series tiitle without winning s race though.

[RaceFanStan]

I don't believe there's ever been a champion without a race win. Is that correct stat-man Stan?
You are correct Hoss, good point ! http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/thum/1u.gif
The most wins for a Championship driver is Richard Petty with 27 wins in 1967. :eek:
The least is 1 win each = Bill Rexford 1950, Ned Jarrett 1961, Benny Parsons 1973 & Matt Kenseth 2003. :eek:

[Old3Fan]

I didn't like the chase befor and I don't now. This sport is called racing. Racing is going the fastest and winning. Not conserving fuel or consistency. Only give points to the top third finishing a race and load the points to the higher finishers. Drive fast and win and you gets the most money. Everyone else gets less and therefore should try to better their effort or get out of the game. I am tired of so many backmarkers that start every race and cause problems and delays due to inexperience or unworthy equipment or whatever. OK start the assault, Old3Fan can handle it :)

[RaceFanStan]

You make valid points Old3Fan ! :D :up:

I hate races won on gas mileage, it usually makes the best cars lose. :s
NASCAR has favored consistency for a long time, even though I agree with you,
I don't see NASCAR changing anything to please us.

I think if NASCAR would stop giving points to the drivers that finish in the back,
the teams would stop putting a wrecked car back on the track getting in everyone's way.
You recommend points just for the top third (let's say that's the top 15),
I'll go a little further & say I think only they should only give points back to 25th.

As to the chase I never liked it but as you well know NASCAR will never admit to making a mistake,
NASCAR will tweak & change things until they make it work acceptable to themselves.

As always it is the fan's duty to accept (or at least tolerate) what NASCAR gives them,
we may not agree with NASCAR but they call the shots, it is THEIR show.
It is either accept NASCAR's decisions or quit being a fan & I'm not ready to quit yet. :s

[Alexamateo]

You are correct Hoss, good point ! http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/thum/1u.gif
The most wins for a Championship driver is Richard Petty with 27 wins in 1967. :eek:
The least is 1 win each = Bill Rexford 1950, Ned Jarrett 1961, Benny Parsons 1973 & Matt Kenseth 2003. :eek:

Nothing against Benny Parsons, because he was a very good driver and will be missed, but He didn't get to take the checkered flag in that lone win in 1973. Benny was sick that day at Bristol, and it was a scorcher. He got out halfway through and turned it over to local ace John Utsman, who brought it home a winner.

[Alexamateo]

I didn't like the chase befor and I don't now. This sport is called racing. Racing is going the fastest and winning. Not conserving fuel or consistency. Only give points to the top third finishing a race and load the points to the higher finishers. Drive fast and win and you gets the most money. Everyone else gets less and therefore should try to better their effort or get out of the game. I am tired of so many backmarkers that start every race and cause problems and delays due to inexperience or unworthy equipment or whatever. OK start the assault, Old3Fan can handle it :)

No problems from me on this post. I will say that strategy is part of racing and if a guy wins on fuel mileage, so be it. I think it's part of the intrigue.

On points I am right there with you, although I would give everybody base points for starting the race. Everybody would get the same to 30th or 25th, then we'd have the same graduated points we have now up to about 6th or 4th and then really ramp up points 5th through 1st, or third through first with the biggest seperation to first.

Truly, on the chase, I'm not for it or against it, but I can foresee it being used to expand the schedule without requiring drivers to be at all the races.
Maybe they'd use only a drivers best 24 races for example, or East and West divisions with the champions coming together at the end, for the National Championship. Who knows, the devil is in the details.

[Mark in Oshawa]

You ARE mistaken ! http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif
Terry Labonte won 2 races when he got his 1st Championship in 1984. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif
Terry Labonte also won 2 races when he got his 2nd Championship in 1996. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif

woops....My humble apologies Stan and to all those Labonte fans out there. I thought he had a year where he just muddled through with top 10's. I know Kulwicki didn't win a lot of races when he got his either....

No matter, I would love to see winning rewarded more, not sure if the points boost they gave them will make guys run harder to win or not...

[trumperZ06]

I didn't like the chase befor and I don't now. This sport is called racing. Racing is going the fastest and winning. Not conserving fuel or consistency. Only give points to the top third finishing a race and load the points to the higher finishers. Drive fast and win and you gets the most money. Everyone else gets less and therefore should try to better their effort or get out of the game. I am tired of so many backmarkers that start every race and cause problems and delays due to inexperience or unworthy equipment or whatever. OK start the assault, Old3Fan can handle it :)

;) Hhmmm... this makes way too much sense... not gonna happen !!!

Really wish it would, though !!!

[RaceFanStan]

woops....My humble apologies Stan and to all those Labonte fans out there. I thought he had a year where he just muddled through with top 10's. I know Kulwicki didn't win a lot of races when he got his either....

No matter, I would love to see winning rewarded more, not sure if the points boost they gave them will make guys run harder to win or not...
No apologies neccessary. :D

Terry Labonte was very consistant his Championship years.

In 1984, Terry Labonte won the Championship by 65 points over Harry Gant.
In 1996, Terry Labonte won the Championship by only 37 points. :eek:
(2nd place Jeff Gordon had 10 wins to Terry's 2 wins in 1996 & the same top 5s & top 10s)

It should also be noted this was before any Chase was ever thought of. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/icons/tongue-anim.gif

[Mark in Oshawa]

My memory bank doesn't work as well as is used to but I do remember my roomate at school railing on Labonte for winning when he didn't win enough!! I do know as time has gone on, my respect for Labonte has grown for the quality of guy he is and how he won his last championship...

[muggle not]

Rusty had 10 wins in 1993 but lost the Championship to D. Earnhardt who had 6 wins. No question in my mind that Earnhardt earned the Championship with mote consistent finishes "outside" the top 10. They both had 21 top 10 finishes.

[tstran17_88]

woops....My humble apologies Stan and to all those Labonte fans out there. I thought he had a year where he just muddled through with top 10's. I know Kulwicki didn't win a lot of races when he got his either....

No matter, I would love to see winning rewarded more, not sure if the points boost they gave them will make guys run harder to win or not...Alan also had two wins the year he won the championship.

[call_me_andrew]

You make valid points Old3Fan ! :D :up:

I hate races won on gas mileage, it usually makes the best cars lose. :s


The best car, is the car that can finish the race distance in the least amount of time. Not the fastest guy in the last 20 laps.

[call_me_andrew]

I would have preferred it if NASCAR had kept the top ten and replaced 400 points with X% of the leader's points. But that was my second choice.

First choice is still a 36 race chase.

[harvick#1]

I hate races won on gas mileage, it usually makes the best cars lose. :s



So you didn't like the Kansas race when Stewart ran out of gas off 2 and coasted to a win, I thought that was the funniest finish of the year