Minimum combined rider/bike weight discussion

:confused: There are minimum weight requirements for racebikes most likely for structural safety reasons yet here are no minumum requirements for the weights of the riders.

Would it not be more logical to have a minimum gross weight of bike and rider allowing for a full tank of fuel and rider weighing (for argument sake), 70kg in full kit which would increase the likelihhood of riders in most parts of the world and of average height and build having a more reasonable chance of getting a ride and being competivie? It would certainly level the playing field.

According to what I believe to be current rider weights in MotoGP, Danny Pedrosa has about a 21kg body weight advantage over the likes of Colin Edwards (51 vs 72Kg). That's equal to the weight of 21 litres of water and a hell of an advantage.

The way it is at the moment, it would obviously be advantageous for manufacturers to hire balemic gnomes.

What are your thoughts about the minimum gross weight proposition?

[leopard]

According to what I believe to be current rider weights in MotoGP, Danny Pedrosa has about a 21kg body weight advantage over the likes of Colin Edwards (51 vs 72Kg). That's equal weight of 21 litres of water and a hell of an advantage.

Probably, but result of Le Mans didn't justify what you believe.

[MrJan]

I believe that the weight difference between Dani and most riders is the equivilent to a full tank of fuel.

The trouble is that if you start imposing rules like this then soon you start putting speed restrictions in and all sorts of other gumpf to try and even it out. Should Rossi be penalised because he has more natural ability than some other riders? At the end of the day the weight difference isn't that big because Pedrosa loses out in corners where he has to manhandle the thing a bit more, it all evens out in the end else we'd see Pedrosa winning every round.

[maxu05]

I don't think it matters. If your a 14 Big Mac eating SOB and you can still beat a rider that is 52 kg wringing wet, well great. I think the bikes should set the limit, the rider, well, that's up to him/her IMO.

[ChrisS]

setting minimum bike dimensions is probably the best way to make sure the bikes dont become too small for an 1.75m-1.85m person to ride but a combined bike with rider minimum weight is not a good idea

A rider is not just dead weight on top of a motorcycle, he moves his body around and uses his weight. He puts his weight near the front to keep the bike from lifting during acceleration, he puts his weight near the rear to keep the rear wheel from lifting during braking, he uses his weight and muscles to lift the bike and to tilt it from one side to the other.

a lighter rider has more difficulty doing all these, putting him on a heavier bike will make things much worst.

[Mach24]

Combined minimum weight is the way to go.

Remember all the talk last year about the advantage Ducati had with straight line speed? Carrying the least amount of mass helps propel the machine faster than the next bike that is 21kg heavier.

Helps to level playing field!

[NinjaMaster]

Whilst there is some merit in this topic, I think it is way overblown. For example, here are the fastest top speeds from the French GP weekend:


21 John HOPKINS USA Kawasaki Racing Team KAWASAKI 291.6 Qualifying Practice
65 Loris CAPIROSSI ITA Rizla Suzuki MotoGP SUZUKI 289.9 Free Practice Nr. 3
46 Valentino ROSSI ITA Fiat Yamaha Team YAMAHA 287.4 Race
7 Chris VERMEULEN AUS Rizla Suzuki MotoGP SUZUKI 287.3 Race
1 Casey STONER AUS Ducati Marlboro Team DUCATI 286.5 Warm Up
33 Marco MELANDRI ITA Ducati Marlboro Team DUCATI 284.9 Qualifying Practice
14 Randy DE PUNIET FRA LCR Honda MotoGP HONDA 284.8 Warm Up
13 Anthony WEST AUS Kawasaki Racing Team KAWASAKI 284.2 Warm Up
24 Toni ELIAS SPA Alice Team DUCATI 282.6 Qualifying Practice
56 Shinya NAKANO JPN San Carlo Honda Gresini HONDA 281.8 Qualifying Practice
5 Colin EDWARDS USA Tech 3 Yamaha YAMAHA 281.0 Qualifying Practice
52 James TOSELAND GBR Tech 3 Yamaha YAMAHA 280.8 Free Practice Nr. 1
2 Dani PEDROSA SPA Repsol Honda Team HONDA 280.0 Free Practice Nr. 3
69 Nicky HAYDEN USA Repsol Honda Team HONDA 279.7 Race
48 Jorge LORENZO SPA Fiat Yamaha Team YAMAHA 277.9 Free Practice Nr. 2
4 Andrea DOVIZIOSO ITA JiR Team Scot MotoGP HONDA 277.9 Race
50 Sylvain GUINTOLI FRA Alice Team DUCATI 275.9 Qualifying Practice
15 Alex DE ANGELIS RSM San Carlo Honda Gresini HONDA 275.4 Free Practice Nr. 1


Note that fastest top speed runner, John Hopkins is also 21kgs heavier than the miniscule Dani Pedrosa yet managed an extra 11km/h quicker down the chute. There are so many variables pertaining to top speed such as grip and handling, aerodynamics and it's ability to 'hide' the rider and of course horsepower. It's about the complete package of the bike and rider and the fact that Dani isn't and hasn't been running away with MotoGP championships proves (to me at least) that any advantages of being lighter than the competition is minimal and plays little bearing in the overall results.

[leopard]

Riding the pride bike, Hopkins can claim that way faster than Pedrosa and claim also the faster exit than Pedrosa. ;)

My original proposition was to open a constructive discussion to seek a means of enhancing the chances for talented riders weighing in excess of 70kg to be competitive at the premier levels in each class.

Being competive over race distance is what it's all about and as rightly pointed out, there are disadvantages to being a rider of small build (7 in MotoGp weighing less than 60 kg).

Regardless, I also suggest that if there was not such a difference between the gross weights (bike and rider) the degree of tyre wear on most bikes could be expected to be more uniform over race distance.

[ArmchairBikeFan]

It's a good question. If I understand correctly, the British 125cc championship has a minimum bike+rider weight the same as in 125GP, but the Spanish championship just has a minimum bike weight. It's reckoned that the minimum bike weight is better for small riders, because if you're small and there's a minimum bike+rider weight, they have to make the bike heavier, which makes it even harder for a little guy to hustle around the track.

On the other hand, the minimum bike+rider helps the big guys since they need to add less ballast, so they have a lighter bike but a similar total weight. That doesn't take into account that anyone bigger than about 5'8" is going to have knees and elbows sticking out all over the place on a 125cc bike.

Being around the 60kg mark myself, depending on recent pie consumption, I say keep it like it is and penalise the big guys! :)

[maxu05]

Perhaps they should have a height chart like at some roller coaster rides stating that you must be this high to get on the ride. Poor Dani and Loris would be out of a ride :D

[Mach24]

proves (to me at least) that any advantages of being lighter than the competition is minimal and plays little bearing in the overall results.

Therefore if the weight is such a minimal factor, lets just combine the bike and rider weight and move on.

Unlike the 60 something kg poster above, I also raced and was over 100kg at the time.

My weight was not a great disadvantage around corners, but sure hampered me down the straights!

[ArmchairBikeFan]

Well, two of British 125cc racing's stars of the last few years are Chaz Davies and Leon Camier. Chaz is 6 foot tall, while Camier's 6'3" (he was smaller than that when he was in 125's, of course, but still huge compared to the others). So the combined bike and rider weight worked pretty well for those guys.

[maxu05]

I really don't think that the riders weight should be entered into. I think the minimum weights for the bikes should be set, but the riders weight should not be considered IMO.

[fatman]

I've heard quotes and comments from several riders and team members in MotoGP regarding Dani's weight over the years. It seems that everyone in the know agrees that Dani has no weight advantage or disadvantage. His size might lend to better aerodynamics in some parts of a track but he also has less body weight to through around in other parts of the track.

A good rider and team learn how to setup a bike and ride it according to their own strengths and weaknesses. Good communication between rider and team and a bike that the rider can manipulate into fitting his riding style is what is important. It's as simple as that.

[NinjaMaster]

Therefore if the weight is such a minimal factor, lets just combine the bike and rider weight and move on.

Or, why fix what ain't broke? I just reckon it becomes more of a pain in the ass adding more regulations and increasing the chances of controversy when a combo doesn't fit within the wieght limits. When does the rider's weight count, before the round or after the race? I think for the sake of keeping things simple then things remain the same.


Unlike the 60 something kg poster above, I also raced and was over 100kg at the time.

My weight was not a great disadvantage around corners, but sure hampered me down the straights!

What class did you race Mach (not 250 proddies I'll bet! :D )? There's always seems to be a big bloke racing in the superbike class and they just leave you thinking, the poor bloke's on a hiding to nothing the way sportbikes are getting smaller and smaller. It really is generally a small (in stature) man's sport.

[Mach24]

I raced a GSXR600 which was quiet large in comparison to the R6, ZX6 and CBR but it was a slug in a straight line with me on it.

However when I let a mate ride it he went on about how much grunt the thing had.

Combine the weights pleeeeeeeeeeeeease!

[maxu05]

I raced a GSXR600 which was quiet large in comparison to the R6, ZX6 and CBR but it was a slug in a straight line with me on it.

However when I let a mate ride it he went on about how much grunt the thing had.

Combine the weights pleeeeeeeeeeeeease!

I must disagree. The weight is set for the bikes, and that's it IMO. If I weigh 120 kg, and Pedrosa weighs 50kgs ? So Danis' bike must weigh 70kg more than my bike with this formula. So, I will be riding an RCV, and Dani must ride a Goldwing to keep the weights even.

[MrJan]

So, I will be riding an RCV, and Dani must ride a Goldwing to keep the weights even.


At least he'd be more comfortable than you, and he'd be able to listen to the radio.

[NinjaMaster]

I raced a GSXR600 which was quiet large in comparison to the R6, ZX6 and CBR but it was a slug in a straight line with me on it.

However when I let a mate ride it he went on about how much grunt the thing had.

Combine the weights pleeeeeeeeeeeeease!

So a vested interest eh? :) I don't think they'll have a 250kg combined racing weight!



I must disagree. The weight is set for the bikes, and that's it IMO. If I weigh 120 kg, and Pedrosa weighs 50kgs ? So Danis' bike must weigh 70kg more than my bike with this formula. So, I will be riding an RCV, and Dani must ride a Goldwing to keep the weights even.

At least the Goldwing has a reverse gear when he overshoots the straight as it runs out of brakes!

[Mach24]

Can I just make a clarifying point here.

I am not saying that if a rider is 150kg everyone else should conform to his/her weight.

There still need be a 'suitable' minimum weight, however I believe as a leveller this weight should combine machine and rider.

This goes back to my dislike for electronic rider aides.

I simply want to see equal opportunities where the rider is the primary factor in the result.