WRC - State of the Union

[Ramone]

Please forgive the grandiose title, it is meant to be tongue in cheek, of a sort. I just wanted to put my thoughts out there regarding the current state of the WRC versus 15 or so years ago, when I first became a fan; this was inspired by a comment I read on one of the BBC chatboards, which read, " If only Loeb and Gronholm can win regularly, then rallying is in serious trouble". And no, this isn't a Loeb bashing thread.

Throughout the 90's, there were so many talented drivers entering each rally, many with the machinery to win. Auriol, Biasion, Burns, Delecour, Kankkunen, McRae, Makinen, Sainz and latterly Gronholm, Solberg and Martin all on the first tier, as well as drivers who were capable of giving the regular top guns a run for their money (or dominating) in certain events like Panizzi, Aghini, Radstom, Thiry, Liatti, Bugalski, Schwarz, even local heroes like Iain Duncan came into the picture sometimes. It seems to me that this has completely disappeared.

When I look at the entry list for an event now, there are really only a maximum of three serious contenders (give or take) for victory and we all know who they are. Loeb's dominance says as much about his skill as it does the paucity of the competition.

And that makes for an uninteresting Championship, in my humble opinion. I used to love this sport more than anything else in the world, but it has lost much of its sparkle for me, in part due to the reasons outlined above. I am only 31 years old, so am not longing for the old Gp B days; am I old before my time....? Or does anybody else feel this way?

Just some thoughts.

[A.F.F.]

It wasn't many years ago when I was bragging on this very forum that WRC is so much better than F1 when there are more than four drivers in every rally capable of winning, last ones quattro Solberg, Loeb, Grönholm and Märtin.

Well, rally hasn't changed so much that F1 would be better. It never will ;)

But yes, at this particular moment we have an inflation with winning material. Loeb is very dominant and only Grönholm ( Solberg ) can overtake him... on gravel and snow. When it comes to tarmac, it's pretty much clear before the rally who'll win.

I'm not worried about the drivers though. Drivers come and go, champions come and go.

I'm more worried about how will WRC itself turn out in the future? ( and the frigging broadcast )

But still, I love rallying.

[Mihai]

I don't think things have changed so much in modern rallying because of Leob or Gronholm. Competitivness and technology was more accessible in the 90s (make it until the mid 90s actually) and that explains why there were 5 or 6 different rally winners in a much shorter schedule and there were many local drivers with a real chance of a podium result. It's technology that changed much, not the essence of rallying. You can still see privateers charging for podium finishes (Gardemeister, Carlsson and Galli last year) or at least scoring one or two points in their home rally.

You praise the situation of the 90s in the WRC, but even back then, things changed from the 80s and 70s, 60s and so on. I just love rallying and the way it evolves!

[Donney]

I love rallying but I'm not sure about the way it evolves when it tend towards extremlly expensive machinery and as a consequence very boring cars to watch. I still think it is the best sport ever, and while I know it won't go back to other times I think a change where cars are more affordable and less "technified" is needed.

[AndyRAC]

I love rallying but I'm not sure about the way it evolves when it tend towards extremlly expensive machinery and as a consequence very boring cars to watch. I still think it is the best sport ever, and while I know it won't go back to other times I think a change where cars are more affordable and less "technified" is needed.

I quite agree, the cars are technically impresive, but are hardly exciting to watch and are too quiet. Until the FIA bite the bullet and introduce new regulations that mean cheaper cars leading to more manufacturers, the status quo will remain.
Regarding the Rallies, the introduction of remote servicing is good; the Monte wasn't a bad Rally, just a few changes; keep the night stages, run Thursday - Sunday, but return to the Col de Turini, run the Monaco stage twice, Saturday night, then as the final stage on Sunday reversed, but run the full lap. Lets hope the organisers of Rally GB run a few night stages.

[JAM]

I love rallying but I'm not sure about the way it evolves when it tend towards extremlly expensive machinery and as a consequence very boring cars to watch. I still think it is the best sport ever, and while I know it won't go back to other times I think a change where cars are more affordable and less "technified" is needed.

:up:

[pino]

I love rallying but I'm not sure about the way it evolves when it tend towards extremlly expensive machinery and as a consequence very boring cars to watch. I still think it is the best sport ever, and while I know it won't go back to other times I think a change where cars are more affordable and less "technified" is needed.

:up: :up: :up:

[Mihai]

I love rallying but I'm not sure about the way it evolves when it tend towards extremlly expensive machinery and as a consequence very boring cars to watch. I still think it is the best sport ever, and while I know it won't go back to other times I think a change where cars are more affordable and less "technified" is needed.

Donney, you are very quoted like a living classic. :laugh:
Serious now, the sport is evolving by keeping close contact with today's realities in the automotive industry. Modern road cars have lots of electronics and are products of high technology and so are today's rally cars. Of course, rally cars are one or two steps ahead in terms of technology - but that was always the purpose of auto racing! Innovations on rally cars usually find applications in road cars, sooner or later. And these one or two steps ahead are expensive because today's technology doesn't come cheap.

You can argue that in the 60s you could have won an international rally with a standard road car (almost). Already in the 70s there was the Alpine-Renault which was a primarily a rally-winning beast (the French actually nicknamed it "bête à gagner"). In the 80s we had the most extreme machines built for rallying (Group B), the the FIA wisely slowed down the evolution by keeping just the Group A and N cars in the game. Maybe in a not-so-distant future, the FIA will slow down the evolution again (hopefully it won't be the replacement of the world rally cars with the S2000 formula). The whining about cars being nowdays too quite is nonsense. The should be so! And they will have less toxic emissions too in the next decade. I think the introduction of high-octane bioethanol as mandatory fuel is imminent and it won't be a tragedy at all for the show. So stop whining and enjoy rallying, all of you! :up:

[JAM]

Donney, you are very quoted like a living classic. :laugh:
Serious now, the sport is evolving by keeping close contact with today's realities in the automotive industry. Modern road cars have lots of electronics and are products of high technology and so are today's rally cars. Of course, rally cars are one or two steps ahead in terms of technology - but that was always the purpose of auto racing! Innovations on rally cars usually find applications in road cars, sooner or later. And these one or two steps ahead are expensive because today's technology doesn't come cheap.

You can argue that in the 60s you could have won an international rally with a standard road car (almost). Already in the 70s there was the Alpine-Renault which was a primarily a rally-winning beast (the French actually nicknamed it "bête à gagner"). In the 80s we had the most extreme machines built for rallying (Group B), the the FIA wisely slowed down the evolution by keeping just the Group A and N cars in the game. Maybe in a not-so-distant future, the FIA will slow down the evolution again (hopefully it won't be the replacement of the world rally cars with the S2000 formula). The whining about cars being nowdays too quite is nonsense. The should be so! And they will have less toxic emissions too in the next decade. I think the introduction of high-octane bioethanol as mandatory fuel is imminent and it won't be a tragedy at all for the show. So stop whining and enjoy rallying, all of you! :up:

Let's resume: If Bioetanol would allow cars sliding and be spectacular as we want, then ok, it should come right now. The one that you wrote "rally cars are one or two steps ahead in terms of technology - but that was always the purpose of auto racing" is bettrer to forget. Ford will use something to studdy aplication on road cars, Citroen and Subaru also, But we had +-20WRC in Monte Carlo and only 6 were the that kind of cars.

So let's put an end on utopic ideas... let's be clear. We dont need electronics to nothing because if the sport isn't interesting than manufacturers will not come, they will test the technology in other place than rallying. That's it. As electronic is decreasing the interest on WRC...

[Mihai]

I don't think corporate dicisions take very much into consideration what hardcore nosthalgic rally fans want (desculpe JAM não fiz por mal!) from this sport. Manufacturers tend to promote their cars as they are today - full of electronics! And the FIA wants that too because the FIA needs manufacturers in the game.

[JAM]

I don't think corporate dicisions take very much into consideration what hardcore nosthalgic rally fans want (desculpe JAM não fiz por mal!) from this sport. Manufacturers tend to promote their cars as they are today - full of electronics! And the FIA wants that too because the FIA needs manufacturers in the game.

The problem is the usual: where manufacturers are involved the interest is usually impossible to understand. They want to be seen, but they don't make the correct thing to be seen. They prepare themselves to have a good product and after that the product don't make a good show. And they don't receive the expected visibility. But they never accept that the problem is on the product. The common people don't know if the WRC cars have electronica gearboxes or electronic diffs, and don't want to know.

The common people (the majority of the target) want cars and and something ununsual that atracts the attention. To that, a lot of technology is not needed. Manufacturers and their strange minds are a problem in motorsport. Look what Toyota is doing in F1... they have return of the investment? I doubt. But they continue there with the biggest budget of all F1 teams. If they have return, then Renault and others must be with and over return because invested less and have more visibility.

[Jarek Z]

I don't think corporate dicisions take very much into consideration what hardcore nosthalgic rally fans want (desculpe JAM não fiz por mal!) from this sport. Manufacturers tend to promote their cars as they are today - full of electronics!

You are wrong, Mihai. If manufacturers tended to promote their cars as they are today (full of electronics) we would have 10 factory teams in WRC and not 2 or 3...

[Mr.Sidewayz]

back in the day teams had 3 and 4 drivers and when the fia made the decision for only 2 drivers per team alot of people where out of a job....

[Mihai]

If Bioetanol would allow cars sliding and be spectacular as we want, then ok, it should come right now.

Bioethanol alone won't make a car to slide. :laugh:


The problem is the usual: where manufacturers are involved the interest is usually impossible to understand.

Actually, it's easy to understand: when a manufacturer is involved in something it all resumes to M-O-N-E-Y. They want to have revenues from their effort in rallying. As you said, most car buyers are not particularly interested in rallying and they don't care if the rally car based on the road car is boring. But the publicity generated by a successful rally car always improves the image of the read car, by making it 'hip' and distinguished among other cars from the same class and prize level. People will see the rally car on the sports news and hear the name of the make and model (= the awareness of the make and model grows) and some will recognize the shape of the rally car on a standard car that they see in a showroom or on the road. This is marketing, you can't understand a manufacturer's actions unless you know the basics of marketing.
Manufacturers have little interest in making their rally cars spectacular. They want to make them effective (for the reasons I wrote above). As we all know, a rally car sliding all over the place is not very effective in terms of good stage times, and besides that, excessive sliding only adds the hazard of a spin/crash.


You are wrong, Mihai. If manufacturers tended to promote their cars as they are today (full of electronics) we would have 10 factory teams in WRC and not 2 or 3...

Have you thought that not all manufacturers want to promote their cars through rallying ? Take the VW Group as an example: Audi is a premium brand, they want to promote its exclusive image through something like sports car racing; Skoda is a mass brand - they are in rallying; VW wants to promote their diesel SUVs - they are in rally-raids, SEAT now focus on touring cars because of their new image and styling.

[Donney]

I see your point Mihai. I drive my Ford Focus and I'm happy to know that there are Ford Focus doing great in the WRC and I love the fact that I can (could is a Mk I Focus) recognise the shape of my car going flat out over a crest and braking late before a hairpin.
But I don't care, and I don't know if many people do, about the stage times in terms of efficiency. I assume this year's Monte has been fastest than last and I assume all the rallies will be that way. But I don't really care about stage records, in any case I would care about my Focus winning the championship, which means it finished first, which means it is the best.
There are many ways to do so and I would like to see a more spectacular one, where I could see the merit of the drivers and feel more related to the act of driving than when they talk about the different setups of the electronic diff, or the mapping of the injection.

I understand things change and evolve, sometimes it brings great things and sometimes it doesn't but I have a feeling that rallying is not getting closer to the normal drivers.

[JAM]

Bioethanol alone won't make a car to slide. :laugh:

What i mean is that everytihing is welcome to increase the show, no mattrer what it is. The use of ethanol would be an axcelent decision, because at leats they could promote that WRC is green... I dont know why but FIA is having slow steps on this side... maybe the petrol mans are making big lobby...



Actually, it's easy to understand: when a manufacturer is involved in something it all resumes to M-O-N-E-Y. They want to have revenues from their effort in rallying. As you said, most car buyers are not particularly interested in rallying and they don't care if the rally car based on the road car is boring. But the publicity generated by a successful rally car always improves the image of the read car, by making it 'hip' and distinguished among other cars from the same class and prize level. People will see the rally car on the sports news and hear the name of the make and model (= the awareness of the make and model grows) and some will recognize the shape of the rally car on a standard car that they see in a showroom or on the road. This is marketing, you can't understand a manufacturer's actions unless you know the basics of marketing.
Manufacturers have little interest in making their rally cars spectacular. They want to make them effective (for the reasons I wrote above). As we all know, a rally car sliding all over the place is not very effective in terms of good stage times, and besides that, excessive sliding only adds the hazard of a spin/crash.


I know the basics of marketing, you have to promote your product the best you can, and if possible sependig the less possible. In rallying to win with a "clean" attitude is a good promotion. So, if the electronic and expensive parts are forbiden to all teams, them the cars could be more spectacular, the manufacturer could spend less and the result could be the same. You promote a car, not an electronic diffs or electronic gearbox, You are promoting a car and a brand name.

Second part, if WRC is not spectacular WRC audiences fall as we see recently. For what's worth to invest in developing a team anda a car when the main goal is to promote, if the audence is low? Will be a good promotion? Will target the number of people that you want? Will worth the investment?

To create expensive cars create more costs (WRC needs de oposite and manufacturers need too), decrease the show wich makes reduce de audiences (less promotion and visibility)

As you see, the way that we are having is less promotion for more money. The basics of marketing is promote the maximum for the minimun costs. Did you saw that they are making the oposite?

[RALLY TEAM GB]

I think the WRC is getting to the piont where it needs a major overhaul.

With 3 works teams pulling out in 2005 and Ford just making it back for 2006 is a sign that its in bad shape, and how many drivers without a drive?

Suzuki enters the sport full time next year so lets see if this is a upward climb of works teams coming back to the sport

The FIA needs to attract more works teams to the sport, cut the number of events to say 10 or 12 and make the cars LESS expensive..........

no comment on the broadcasting side...its very sad indeed

dont get me wrong i enjoy the WRC, but its not what it was....LOEB, GRONHOLM and maybe P SOLBERG the only major players in the sport...also the only paid drivers too, everyone else needs to bring money to drive...thats how expensive it has gotten

I think that the S2000 series is going to be more exciting, hell the IRC is doing everything the WRC is doing wrong and more teams are interested in it than WRC, but we will have to wait and see what happens

[Corny]

Why should the FIA change it, like it is now? French winning tyres, French winning manufacture, French winning driver, and a (losing?:P) French FIA..

But yes, I loved it more also. It's not that there are not enough fast drivers, see this list:
Loeb
Grönholm
Solberg
Märtin
Galli
Gardemeister
Hirvonen
Sordo
Meeke
Wilks
Duval
In my eyes, all these guys can win rallies. If you had 6 manufactures, all these guys could have a seat. Just imagine how that would be!

[RS]

In my eyes, all these guys can win rallies. If you had 6 manufactures, all these guys could have a seat. Just imagine how that would be!

But there aren't, so they don't and we can't :(

For me, WRC in general started to go downhill when they tried to turn it into a 'product'. Ok, so most motorsport is about business nowadays but they've harmed the WRC in the process of chasing 'customers'

Now we have less manufacuter participation, less proper (paid, not paying) drivers and worse tv coverage than ever in the last 10 years.

[AndyRAC]

But there aren't, so they don't and we can't :(

For me, WRC in general started to go downhill when they tried to turn it into a 'product'. Ok, so most motorsport is about business nowadays but they've harmed the WRC in the process of chasing 'customers'

Now we have less manufacuter participation, less proper (paid, not paying) drivers and worse tv coverage than ever in the last 10 years.

Yes, and all this has happened since the F1A decided to stick their noses in, with silly rules changes, etc. I wonder why, F1 was boring with Ferrari/Schumi winning everything, whereas WRC was exciting. The F1A couldn't have that, F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport, the Crown Jewels, any threat must be stopped.
Can you blame manufacturers for not wanting to join; cars are too expensive to build and develop, and what do they get in return, a TV product that is shown in few countries.

[mcmarteau]

all this reminds me of the makinen era...

[jso1985]

Yes, and all this has happened since the F1A decided to stick their noses in, with silly rules changes, etc. I wonder why, F1 was boring with Ferrari/Schumi winning everything, whereas WRC was exciting. The F1A couldn't have that, F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport, the Crown Jewels, any threat must be stopped.
Can you blame manufacturers for not wanting to join; cars are too expensive to build and develop, and what do they get in return, a TV product that is shown in few countries.


??? Are you gonna tell me that rallyes were in a better shape before 1979??? the FIA has surely made terrible mistakes but if it wasn't for them the WRC wouldn't exist as a worldwide sport as it is today.
and why does F1 have to do with it? are you telling it was the FIA that stopped Ferrari domination in F1 and started Citroën domination in WRC??? :confused: it's not FIA's fault that F1 and WRC teams couldn't get things right a make a proper challenge against those teams.
but it's always easier to blame the FIA if your coffee is cold, right? :rolleyes:

[AndyRAC]

I didn't say that the F1A stopped the Ferrari domination. Audiences were falling worldwide if I remember, and the WRC was doing well, possibly too well, and rule changes were brought in. Since then the WRC has struggled whereas F1 in the last 2-3 years has been exciting.
Okay maybe we should be thankful that the F1A brought the championship in 1979, took them long enough, though the Manufacturers started in 1973, the Drivers had a cup. I'm not anti-F1A but some of their rules don't make sense.

[RALLY TEAM GB]

WRC right's holder David Richard's has hit out at the new IRC series, branding it "A bit of a sham". According to a report in today's 'Motorsport News', the soon-to-step-down chairman of International Sportworld Communications doesn't believe the IRC is necessary because it will weaken the world championship's PWRC category.
Richard's said: "Super 2000 provided a chance for manufacturers to produce an equivalent Gp N car but they already cost too much. So why dilute what's already there when they don't have the demand?"
Whilst Super2000 cars do indeed generally appear to cost over the original propsed budget this has not stopped Peugeot, Fiat, Volkswagen, Toyota and Skoda committing to the formula - Peugeot and Skoda both full works efforts and indeed both WRC refugees.
But Richards, who is co-ordinating Prodrive's entry into Formula 1 whilst returning to work with Subaru's World Rally Team appears increasingly out of touch with reality as sales of the Fiat Punto and Peugeot 207 in particular already run into the several dozen.
The Intercontinental Rallye Challenge, as well as welcoming S2000 cars is open to GrpN4, S1600, and all other FIA-class rally cars except World Rally Cars. The series will give drivers of these vehicles the opportunity to fight for outright victory on a 9-event calendar concentrated in Europe but also visiting Kenya as well as the important emerging markets of China and Russia. In total, the Eurosport Group will cover more than 70 hours of the IRC, which equals to 8 hours on average for each event.
His comments are unlikely to be welcomed by Eurosport, who are promoting the IRC series, but are also the single most important broadcaster of his WRC product. The World Rally Championship has just 3 competing manufacturers this year after the withdrawal of Mitsubishi, Peugeot and Skoda at the end of 2005.
Nothing like a bit of compeition, is there, Mr Richards?

saw this article on http://www.rallye-info.com

[RALLY TEAM GB]

Belgian outfit Kronos Racing are considering an entry into the new Intercontinental Rallye Challenge series. The private team, who are closely associated with Citroen Sport, having run Sebastien Loeb's successful 2006 WRC campaign, are reported to be weighing up the possibility of running a programme with S1600 Citroen C2 machines.
Kronos boss Marc van Dalen told Motorsport News: "It is normal for a business to look to be there. It was a worry that our programme for this year (in the WRC) came together so late. The WRC is very expensive and although many people have tried to push budgets down it has not worked."
Kronos are thought unlikely to make the season opening Safari Rally in Kenya but could debut at the Rally of Turkey in early May.
Fellow Belgian privateer outfit First Motorsport are also said to be looking into an IRC entry. First, who also run Francois Duval's WRC programme in a Skoda Fabia WRC, are interested in purchasing several Peugeot 207 S2000s - possibly to enter Duval in the fledgling new series.


so who says the WRC is still in good shape?

not me

[Rally Hokkaido]

Is it really going to be a case of IRC v's WRC?

Umm, sort of reminds me of when World Series Cricket started up in opposition to the pukka version.
It was a bit messy for a couple of seasons, but the sport benefited greatly in
the end.
The other anology of Champcar v's IRL doesn't bear thinking about!

[AndyRAC]

I've stated on another thread that Dave Richards is increasingly out of touch with WRC, stay with F1 were he now belongs. His statements don't make sense, if that many manufacturers are interested in IRC there must be something right with it. Whereas the WRC has 3 manufacturers (soon to be 4), they dictate who will succeed, not DR.

[A.F.F.]

Who says WRC won't be driven with S2000 in the future ?

[AndyRAC]

Who says WRC won't be driven with S2000 in the future ?

It's quite possible that this will be the case, in fact it is more than likely, after all they are cheaper, more manufacturers, etc

[Jarek Z]

Who says WRC won't be driven with S2000 in the future ?

Nobody.

A few days ago there was a press conference of Fiat Portugal, where it was announced that Jose Pedro Fontes will drive Punto S2000 in the Portuguese championship.

During this conference Claudio Berro, FIAT sporting director was asked about FIAT factory team's plans for this year.

Q: FIAT group has great traditions in World Rally Championship. Haven't you ever thought about building a WRC car?
A: No, in FIAT we think that the future of rallying on a world level is Super 2000 and not WRCs, which are expensive and not accessible for private teams.

FIAT are going to concentrate on IRC and Italian Championship. They have 3 drivers signed now - current European champion Giandomenico Basso, former European and Italian champion Andrea Navarra and young Umberto Scandola. Two of these drivers will compete in IRC and one in Italian Championship.

The whole interview (in Portuguese) you can find at http://www.ralis.online.pt

For the ones who have never seen Fiat Punto S2000:
http://www.rallyonline.pl/ft.php?idg=1428&pg_[go]=53

[JAM]

Why manufacturers look at IRC with interest?

- They have a word on decisions
- The cars are not expensive
- The rallyes are not very expensive and are interesting rallyes (Turkey, Jordan, Cyprus.... are worts than Madeira, Safari, Sanremo).
- They have a good TV coverage and don't have to pay for it as they pay on WRC.

Aren't enough arguments?

Solution?

- Put on FIA charge people that love rally and want rally stronger. People with inteligency and good sense with one goal: develop de WRC.
- Put and end on electronics. WRC don't need to be killed. They need to be transformed in less expensive cars.
- Why go for thousand of km around the world if some rallyes don't have exposition and are not interesting? Sanremo received WRC during years... Safari was part of WRC during years... they had gone but are back and welcome as you see.
- Work on tv coverage as should be and not with the only interest in profit. I can't believe that isn't posible do better on WRC. Simply can't believe.

And a word to manufacturers. They go where FIA send him if they have good return. Sometimes people has to show them the correct way because they are blind.

But one thing should have in mind: Without public interest the rallyes will die. People want rallyes spectacular and interesting with many cars and many good drivers. Where public interest exists the return of investment will exist too, and ROI is what manufacturers want.

Many cars and many good drivers only with a WRC chepaer than this. And believe that the first problem are the cars.

I said a lot of times, and i wouldn't change my idea: I don't want to know if the cars are or not technologicalu advanced, i wnat spectacular cars and many cars of that kind. It's an easy wish.

[Donney]

WRC right's holder David Richard's has hit out at the new IRC series, branding it "A bit of a sham". According to a report in today's 'Motorsport News', the soon-to-step-down chairman of International Sportworld Communications doesn't believe the IRC is necessary because it will weaken the world championship's PWRC category.
Richard's said: "Super 2000 provided a chance for manufacturers to produce an equivalent Gp N car but they already cost too much. So why dilute what's already there when they don't have the demand?"
Whilst Super2000 cars do indeed generally appear to cost over the original propsed budget this has not stopped Peugeot, Fiat, Volkswagen, Toyota and Skoda committing to the formula - Peugeot and Skoda both full works efforts and indeed both WRC refugees.
But Richards, who is co-ordinating Prodrive's entry into Formula 1 whilst returning to work with Subaru's World Rally Team appears increasingly out of touch with reality as sales of the Fiat Punto and Peugeot 207 in particular already run into the several dozen.
The Intercontinental Rallye Challenge, as well as welcoming S2000 cars is open to GrpN4, S1600, and all other FIA-class rally cars except World Rally Cars. The series will give drivers of these vehicles the opportunity to fight for outright victory on a 9-event calendar concentrated in Europe but also visiting Kenya as well as the important emerging markets of China and Russia. In total, the Eurosport Group will cover more than 70 hours of the IRC, which equals to 8 hours on average for each event.
His comments are unlikely to be welcomed by Eurosport, who are promoting the IRC series, but are also the single most important broadcaster of his WRC product. The World Rally Championship has just 3 competing manufacturers this year after the withdrawal of Mitsubishi, Peugeot and Skoda at the end of 2005.
Nothing like a bit of compeition, is there, Mr Richards?

saw this article on www.rallye-info.com (http://www.rallye-info.com)

It seems Mr. Richards is a victim of his own idea. He wanted a better coverage for rallying so it reached wider audiences therefore bringing more people into the sport and more manufacturers attracted by the potential increase of exposure and sales.

And voi la! Eurosport has done exactly the same but in less time and as any new series it looks promising. And it could be threatening to WRC.

Sour grapes Mr. Richards...


I personally think they'll end merged and S2000 could work as a promotion for new talented young drivers (I keep my fingers crossed)

[AndyRAC]

I'd like to know what Dave Richards' agenda is. He just seems to want to ruin the sport, though I'm sure that can't be the case. Maybe he should try and improve Subaru first before commenting on the WRC.

[LotusElise]

It looks like the same situation as happened with sportscar racing in the 80s. Budgets spiralled out of control and the races were dominated by a tiny number of teams, particularly Porsche.
People lost interest and the discipline started to fragment into separate series, run by different organisations. Manufacturers were no longer keen to run massively expensive works teams.
However, sportscar racing survived. The main events on its calendar, particularly Le Mans, have remained prestigious and well-attended. In my opinion, the major blue-riband rallies, such as the Monte, Rally GB, Finalnd and possibly the Safari, will be what the organisations are fighting over, not teams or technical regs.

[FrankenSchwinn]

In total, the Eurosport Group will cover more than 70 hours of the IRC, which equals to 8 hours on average for each event.
His comments are unlikely to be welcomed by Eurosport, who are promoting the IRC series, but are also the single most important broadcaster of his WRC product. The World Rally Championship has just 3 competing manufacturers this year after the withdrawal of Mitsubishi, Peugeot and Skoda at the end of 2005.
Nothing like a bit of compeition, is there, Mr Richards?


hum, how long does Eurosport have the contract with ISC for? i ask because there might be some competion between ISC and EuSpt for rally broacast. if the IRC fails, it won't be because of the lack of trying. and if WRC popularity drops, it won't be because of anyone else but DR/ISC.



why/when is DR stepping down from chair of ISC?

[cut the b.s.]

It looks like the same situation as happened with sportscar racing in the 80s. Budgets spiralled out of control and the races were dominated by a tiny number of teams, particularly Porsche.
People lost interest and the discipline started to fragment into separate series, run by different organisations. Manufacturers were no longer keen to run massively expensive works teams.
However, sportscar racing survived. The main events on its calendar, particularly Le Mans, have remained prestigious and well-attended. In my opinion, the major blue-riband rallies, such as the Monte, Rally GB, Finalnd and possibly the Safari, will be what the organisations are fighting over, not teams or technical regs.

This is very possible, certainly Wherever Dakar got Mitsubishi more column inches than the Monte got Citroen, to non rally fans the Safari is still a big name event, will be interesting to see the coverage it gets this year

[JAM]

However, sportscar racing survived. The main events on its calendar, particularly Le Mans, have remained prestigious and well-attended.

But you know why Le Mans remained so prestigious? Is not only the tradition...

[Mihai]

David Richards was recently interviewed by Motors TV's beauty Diana Binks (as sweet as ever) at the Autosport show and he said he will focus this year on SWRT.

I read some very pessimistic opinions on this topic. Personally, I don't think the IRC is an immediate threat to the WRC. I lacks the tradition and the brand that the WRC has built over the last decades. The WRC still has the best-known rallies, today's iconic rally drivers and the most commited manufacturers. At this moment, comparing the WRC with the IRC is like comparing the image of Coca-Cola to that of a local soft drinks producer in your country.

I also think that Fiat's involvement as a works team in a big championship is short-living (they already accomplished giving their new Grande Punto a dynamic image by winning the ERC last year) and Fiat are not big spenders in motorsports (forget Ferrari - it's a special case with different management). Fiat would rather enjoy supplying cars to private teams than having a works team for many years to come.

[FrankenSchwinn]

But you know why Le Mans remained so prestigious? Is not only the tradition...

cause that's where the brits go to get wasted.

[JAM]

I read some very pessimistic opinions on this topic. Personally, I don't think the IRC is an immediate threat to the WRC. I lacks the tradition and the brand that the WRC has built over the last decades. The WRC still has the best-known rallies, today's iconic rally drivers and the most commited manufacturers. At this moment, comparing the WRC with the IRC is like comparing the image of Coca-Cola to that of a local soft drinks producer in your country.


Imagine this scenario: Monte Carlo Rally is put out of WRC in 2008. Where this rally would be in 2008? IRC! Sanremo and Safari are very well known names, the names that WRC didn't want.

With the lack of bidgets to compete on WRC and the high number of good drivers without seat, i would be surprised if these drivers start to look at IRC.

I don't want IRC as a threat to WRC, but have to agree that they could do in a positive way every good things that in last yeras of WRC management destroyed. The manufacturers go to where the return of investment is bigger.

[BDunnell]

Please forgive the grandiose title, it is meant to be tongue in cheek, of a sort. I just wanted to put my thoughts out there regarding the current state of the WRC versus 15 or so years ago, when I first became a fan; this was inspired by a comment I read on one of the BBC chatboards, which read, " If only Loeb and Gronholm can win regularly, then rallying is in serious trouble". And no, this isn't a Loeb bashing thread.

Throughout the 90's, there were so many talented drivers entering each rally, many with the machinery to win. Auriol, Biasion, Burns, Delecour, Kankkunen, McRae, Makinen, Sainz and latterly Gronholm, Solberg and Martin all on the first tier, as well as drivers who were capable of giving the regular top guns a run for their money (or dominating) in certain events like Panizzi, Aghini, Radstom, Thiry, Liatti, Bugalski, Schwarz, even local heroes like Iain Duncan came into the picture sometimes. It seems to me that this has completely disappeared.

When I look at the entry list for an event now, there are really only a maximum of three serious contenders (give or take) for victory and we all know who they are. Loeb's dominance says as much about his skill as it does the paucity of the competition.

And that makes for an uninteresting Championship, in my humble opinion. I used to love this sport more than anything else in the world, but it has lost much of its sparkle for me, in part due to the reasons outlined above. I am only 31 years old, so am not longing for the old Gp B days; am I old before my time....? Or does anybody else feel this way?

Just some thoughts.

I'm 28, and I feel exactly the same. As I've said many times on here, I think that standard Group A rules would be infinitely preferable to what we have now. There would be more and cheaper cars, and surely a greater variety of potential winners as a result - I think. I say 'I think' because so few people get a decent chance now that it's hard to tell. Super 2000 may be a good idea, but what's the point of it at the moment? Where is the incentive to develop an S2000 rally car?

Coupled with the lack of challenge presented by today's events, which have proved so TV-friendly that TV coverage has all but disappeared from the terrestrial networks, my interest has dimished to the point where it's almost non-existent. This is a shame for me, as it could so easily return.

[sollitt]

I think that standard Group A rules would be infinitely preferable to what we have now. There would be more and cheaper cars, and surely a greater variety of potential winners as a result - I think.

The fact that the homologation requirements of Group A were too imposing on manufacturers, and that few wanted to produce a turbo 4WD road car at all, is exactly why we have World Rally Cars.
A return to Group A would render the WRC a 2 horse race just as the Grp N PWRC championship is now and with essentially the same equipment.

[BDunnell]

The fact that the homologation requirements of Group A were too imposing on manufacturers, and that few wanted to produce a turbo 4WD road car at all, is exactly why we have World Rally Cars.
A return to Group A would render the WRC a 2 horse race just as the Grp N PWRC championship is now and with essentially the same equipment.

But they wouldn't necessarily have to produce a 4wd car.

[Mihai]

Imagine this scenario: Monte Carlo Rally is put out of WRC in 2008. Where this rally would be in 2008? IRC! Sanremo and Safari are very well known names, the names that WRC didn't want.

And why would Monte be left out of the WRC? I don't think the people in charge of the WRC are that stupid to strenghten a rival championship by such a decision.

And I think it's the Italian Federation that chose Sardinia instead of San Remo, while Safari was quite an expensive event for teams and especially privateers. Works drivers used helicopters for guidance.

You can't hav'em all in a 16-round championship. Some interesting events will inevitably left outside.

[DonJippo]

Super 2000 may be a good idea, but what's the point of it at the moment? Where is the incentive to develop an S2000 rally car?

S2000 is the replacement of N-group and the purpose of it was and is to have more brands in PWRC than current two, Mitsu and Subaru.

[DonJippo]

And I think it's the Italian Federation that chose Sardinia instead of San Remo.

Correct :up:

[JAM]

And why would Monte be left out of the WRC? I don't think the people in charge of the WRC are that stupid to strenghten a rival championship by such a decision.

And I think it's the Italian Federation that chose Sardinia instead of San Remo, while Safari was quite an expensive event for teams and especially privateers. Works drivers used helicopters for guidance.

You can't hav'em all in a 16-round championship. Some interesting events will inevitably left outside.

It was only a suposition, nothing that could happen, the 2007 MC edition was better than 2006. But you know, a lot of people blamed MC by the spectators and the traffic problems. Luckly MC stayed on the WRC callendar.

Is true that was italian federation changing from Sanremo to Sardinia. But wasn't this a lost in terms of tradition? Yes it was, in term of tradition and interest, because Sanremo rally was very interesting and Sardinia rally is like other mediterranian rallyes. Where FIA could act? Making lobby to send again the rally to Sanremo! Easy!

Why do you think that rally of Portugal returned to WRC? Because changed from the traditional and well known north of Portugal to the south. Otherwise there was no Rali of Portugal on WRC. Why? FIA wanted less spectators...

[Mihai]

Why do you think that rally of Portugal returned to WRC? Because changed from the traditional and well known north of Portugal to the south. Otherwise there was no Rali of Portugal on WRC. Why? FIA wanted less spectators...

I kinda regret that because I have friends in Nothern Portugal (município de Lousada, distrito de Porto) where I lived for a month in 2002.

But no offence, speaking of Portuguese rally spectators, maybe less is better. Let's face it: they were quite fanatic not many years ago and the organisers were not doing enough to enforce order on the stages. Some of the spectators were going to the rally as if they were going to a bull fight (tourada) and they were the bull fighters. They used to prove their courage by attempting to touch the mirror of a car on the inside of the corner or by being the last individual to move out of the way when a car was aproaching. Maybe there won't be such problems in the South of Portugal.

[pino]

And I think it's the Italian Federation that chose Sardinia instead of San Remo..



It was the Italian Federation and Ecclestone's right hand and great friend Lattuneddu ( or whatever he's called ) who's from Sardinia...

[Mihai]

I didn't know such background details. :up: