KERS, supposing it goes ahead...

[Ranger]

...who will build and foot the bill for it? The teams or the engine suppliers? because I remember seeing a diagram of it where Energy was recovered from the tyres.

Because all indications point to its implementation being mighty expensive, although it should be noted that Honda have got a very primitive system working already.

[ioan]

Of course it's expensive. That's the nature of the things where there is competition.
Engine suppliers and customers will all have to endure the costs.

Question is why didn't they just go for alternative fuels? Biodiesel, electricity and so one.
Do they really think that this will help road car productions in the future? Who will pay the premium price for a car equiped with KERS if an electric or compressed air powered one is just as effective for half the price?!

[Robinho]

because KERS will not require the existing fuel infrastructure to be amended, unlike Hydrogen Fuel Cell or Electric motors. isn't this how existing Hybrids work anyway - generate energy from the running of the car, the more energy that can be recovered from braking systems etc the better the fuel consumption acheived.

whilst Electric cars and Hydrogen fuel cell are great (zero emissions) that only counts for the vehicle, but where does the energy come from the create the Hydrogen or the Electricity - good old power stations, so unless tied in with a green electricity programme it isn't going to solve much.

besides, i think most people would be interested if they look into how much CO2 emissions come from the production of concrete worldwide, check it out, i think you may be surprised - why aren't we speding more coming up with a better building product rather than hammering cars, which are already becoming far more efficient and coming up with multiple green solutions that will be in effect long before any national government mandates that no electricity is produced using fossil fuels

[Mark]

You could eventually see F1 cars running on the likes of hydrogen. The FIA would specify that every team must get their hydrogen from a renewable energy source such as installing wind turbines at their factories etc.

Something like that has got to happen eventually or F1 will falter.

[Bagwan]

Hydrogen is a wild goose chase .
It takes a lot of power to split that molecule .

Global warming is being blamed solely on carbon , yet it takes 21 tons of carbon flown to equal the effect of 1 ton of methane , on the atmosphere .

You could power the weekend with the crappers on site , given the crowds that come .

Simple digesters , using anaerobic bacteria , not unlike a regular septic tank , with pressure valves that extract the methane(aka-natural gas) , should easily be able to power all the cars on the grid .

The gains to such a system are easy to see .
Seen as waste , manure is a problem .
Seen as a source for natural gas , it is an asset .

Rather than just buying carbon offsets , we offset the carbon placed into the atmoshere from fossil fuels .
With that , we replace dependency with independence on other nations for power in all senses .

And , best of all , we don't put that methane into the atmosphere .

Leave the damned oil where it is .
We've got all the power we need up here .

It is THE ONLY answer , period .

[JSH]

You could power the weekend with the crappers on site , given the crowds that come .


That's a sh*tty idea. :p

...aww c'mon!! Someone HAD to say it. :D

[Bagwan]

That's a sh*tty idea. :p

...aww c'mon!! Someone HAD to say it. :D

I guess someone did .

I imagine the paddock club loos would yield some pretty high grade fuel , what with all that asparagus and truffles and such .

I know it sounds stupid , but it's simply so easy it could work .

[ioan]

I know it sounds stupid , but it's simply so easy it could work .

It doesn't sound stupid at all, it's just that people always look for a complicated and expensive solution, for whatever reason! ;)

[Robinho]

whilst KERS is undoubtedly expensive (what new technology isn't) it would have benefits for all forms of car production, by harnessing what would otherwise be lost energy and reusing for propulsion - whatever format future cars are powered by i would think that they would all have some sort of KERS in them - and the F1 guys will be at the forefront of makig this technology as efficient as possible - the better the gains the team can make in rocovery the faster they will go and this will drop into general car production

[Bagwan]

whilst KERS is undoubtedly expensive (what new technology isn't) it would have benefits for all forms of car production, by harnessing what would otherwise be lost energy and reusing for propulsion - whatever format future cars are powered by i would think that they would all have some sort of KERS in them - and the F1 guys will be at the forefront of makig this technology as efficient as possible - the better the gains the team can make in rocovery the faster they will go and this will drop into general car production

KERS is not necessarily expensive in itself , however , may cost weight .
Simply put , the idea is to run a generator on the wheel . The generator changes the motion of the car into electrical power .

One notion that occurs to me is that it may , in effect , be adapted as a return to modulated engine braking , not that that would be a detriment to road cars at all .
It would however , cancel lock-up into corners .

[Azumanga Davo]

You could power the weekend with the crappers on site , given the crowds that come .

Stick a hose down the throat of Max/James Allen/*pick your own target of verbal compost* and double the estimate. ;)

[SteveA]

How much mass does the flywheel in the KERS system have? I should imagine it would be quite lethal in an impact if it breaks free of it bearings and / or breaks up.

Also I don't think its particularly new - I'm pretty sure its been tried in buses!

[JSH]

How much mass does the flywheel in the KERS system have? I should imagine it would be quite lethal in an impact if it breaks free of it bearings and / or breaks up.

Also I don't think its particularly new - I'm pretty sure its been tried in buses!

This month's SAE magazine has a good article on the "potential" F1 KERS systems. It has a picture of one system which shows the flywheel completely contained. Safety obviously will be a major consideration. Article estimates the flywheel itself may be around 10-15kg.

If I find a way to get a link to the article I'll post it, but you can only access it at the moment if you're an SAE member(which I am).

[SteveA]

The lighter it is, the faster it'll have to spin to store any useful energy. If one did get out, it'd probably drill its way to the centre of the earth ;)

[Azumanga Davo]

How much mass does the flywheel in the KERS system have? I should imagine it would be quite lethal in an impact if it breaks free of it bearings and / or breaks up.

Also I don't think its particularly new - I'm pretty sure its been tried in buses!

And on some bizarre looking trains (Class 139s for you rail spotters out there ;) ) in England too. The Parry People Movers. Could be a very good tie-in, maybe make an 11th team up. :D

EDIT: Must mention that a lot of rotary engined cars seem to be chucking flywheels left right and centre (YouTube has some rippers, going through the bonnet etc.)...

[Bagwan]

"Who killed the electric car ?" has a segment where a mechanic explains that the energy recovery system made it so that not a single car in the fleet had to have brakes replaced in a 5 year period .

No huge flywheel necessary if you create electricity , as the car itself creates the mass you are slowing .
And , I , for one , do not believe they will store the potential energy in a spinning mass .