Patrick Clocks Pit Crew Worker

[Tazio]

Patrick hits crew member on pit lane
Messed this dude up bad!

Danica Patrick was involved in an incident on pit lane during Friday’s practice at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway when her car hit a crew member from another team in pit lane

According to Dr. Mike Ollinger, the director of Medical Affairs for the Indy Racing League, Buckman suffered a concussion along with scalp and facial lacerations. He was transported to Methodist Hospital for treatment where he is being held overnight.

“I really don’t remember how it happened,” Buckman said. “All I remember is I was talking with someone on Marco Andretti’s
According to Dr. Mike Ollinger, the director of Medical Affairs for the Indy Racing League, Buckman suffered a concussion along with scalp and facial lacerations. He was transported to Methodist Hospital for treatment where he is being held overnight.

“I really don’t remember how it happened,” Buckman said. “All I remember is I was talking with some one on Marco Andretti’s team and then everything is blank from that point

It knocked him out and the face cuts will heal but it’s the concussion they are concerned about. At least he didn’t get thrown down like a rag doll. He got clipped by the front wing and got thrown over the top of the car and then did a face into the ground.

[Vegasguy]

Here is some Video of the incident.

http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8301490

IMHO Danica was moving to fast in crowded pit and cut through Marco's pit box in route to hers. That said, what was a Dayle Coyne employee doing walking through Marco's pit and was he paying attention to the car coming in? (can't see that on the video)

It's already being said that Danica's not at fault and they need to make sure she's ok for tomorrow etc, but I think there is dual fault on this one.

Best wishes and a speedy recovery to Charles Buckman.

Let the Danicamania begin............

[NickFalzone]

This is not really on-point, but I have noticed that in general Danica is extremely impatient in the pits. That said, looking at the video, I do not think this is her fault. It was an accident and I hope he is able to recover quickly. If anything comes out of this, and the recent Marty Roth incident, IRL will tighten its over the wall rules. There were several crew members including Mario standing around not paying attention, stay behind the wall unless you're working on a car.

[Tazio]

Here is some Video of the incident.

http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8301490

IMHO Danica was moving to fast in crowded pit and cut through Marco's pit box in route to hers. That said, what was a Dayle Coyne employee doing walking through Marco's pit and was he paying attention to the car coming in? (can't see that on the video)

It's already being said that Danica's not at fault and they need to make sure she's ok for tomorrow etc, but I think there is dual fault on this one.

Best wishes and a speedy recovery to Charles Buckman.

Let the Danicamania begin............Basically the way that link that I provided said there were allot of people they were trying to clear out for her passage.
Evidently Buckman was the only one that didn't see the signal.
Unless your waiting for a lollypop man to release you. It's comes down to the driver to avoid pedestrians Driver error!
Unless he was trying to commit suicide

[NickFalzone]

I don't know the "rules" of pit lane. Bucknam's been around for awhile and knows the deal there. Is there a proper procedure where driver radios in to pit when coming in, and she did not do that?

[Valve Bounce]

Gosh!! you had me worried; I thought it was Patrick Head you were referring to and I thought he may have clocked a McLaren pit crew for getting in his way. :eek:

[Vegasguy]

Here is some Video of the incident.

http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8301490



Unfortunately they have changed the story attached to the link I sent and it no longer shows the actual incident.

[ZzZzZz]

This shows it: http://ballhype.com/video/crewman_struck_by_danica_patrick_s_car_in_indy/

[DrDomm]

That's a shame, and seems like something that must be preventable. From the video it's hard to tell how far down her pitbox is, and if she came in too soon. It looks like she's going very quick, but she might have been doing a reasonable speed. You can't see anyone yelling at this guy to get out of the way, but they could have been from the other direction. Maybe he shouldn't even have been walking in an empty pitbox. This kind of thing just shouldn't happen. My hope is that isn't just swept under the rug as some kind of "racing deal".

[Tazio]

You can't see anyone yelling at this guy to get out of the way, but they could have been from the other direction. Maybe he shouldn't even have been walking in an empty pitbox. This kind of thing just shouldn't happen. My hope is that isn't just swept under the rug as some kind of "racing deal".“Wrong place, wrong time,” Coyne said. “He was just walking down pit road to go back to the garage to get some stuff. I talked to the Green guys afterwards and they were motioning people to stop. There was some confusion who was stopping and who wasn’t. They got everybody stopped but Chuck and he took one more step at the same time she turned in and just clipped him.
http://sports.yahoo.com/irl/news?slug=txpatrickaccident&prov=st&type=lgns

Yes! This most definately can't be just swept under the rug!
At least I hope not!

[downtowndeco]

[quote="Tazio
Yes! This most definately can't be just swept under the rug!
At least I hope not![/QUOTE"]

GMAMFB already.

[harvick#1]

she looks like she was going 100 MPH, sorry but this is on danica, you are not in race mode. its practice, you don't have to rush pitroad to change tires. :rolleyes:

an accident that should've clearly been avoided

[downtowndeco]

she looks like she was going 100 MPH, sorry but this is on danica, you are not in race mode. its practice, you don't have to rush pitroad to change tires. :rolleyes:

an accident that should've clearly been avoided

Go stand on the highway about 6" away from cars running 55 mph. From that distance it's going to look like 100.

[harvick#1]

Go stand on the highway about 6" away from cars running 55 mph. From that distance it's going to look like 100.

theres no need to do 55 coming into pitroad. its practice, if this was during the race and that was her stall, then that would've been the crewmans fault. but you are not in a rush in practice, espcially when its a 2 weeks before the race itself, she looked alot more cautious after her qualifying laps, so maybe she learned something

[downtowndeco]

theres no need to do 55 coming into pitroad. its practice, if this was during the race and that was her stall, then that would've been the crewmans fault. but you are not in a rush in practice, espcially when its a 2 weeks before the race itself, she looked alot more cautious after her qualifying laps, so maybe she learned something

Now you conceed she was probably doing 55 and not 100. Let me ask you. What is the speed limit on pit lane? 55 as far as I know.

It was just a racing accident. Stop trying to paint someone to blame just because you personally don't like them.

[harvick#1]

yeah, once again, I point out safety and I get blasted because I dislike the driver, I would say the same think if TK or Helio, or Wheldon did the same thing. the pitroad should never have accidents espcially during practice, no one should be in a hurry to get to the pit lane or pit stall, why a spotter or team manager never told Danica there was a crewmember in that stall. there were plenty of people around and the CC or somebody should've been spotting for her. yes, she prolly didn't see him until the last second, but this is alot of people at fault as its only practice, you just don't hear of these incidents from practice, in the race, it happens.

Stewart did it in the Richmond race where the jackman went flying over the hood while its very dangerous, that was under race conditions and the guy in front short pitted and Tony locked the brakes.

[FormerFF]

Yeah, shared blame there. The crewman didn't need to be in somebody else's pit box, and she didn't need to be coming in that hot, and she didn't need to be cutting through Marco's pit box.

She probably never saw him, as your field of vision is fairly restricted.

[tbyars]

harvick, I'd point out something that you seem to want to ignore...part of practice is practicing getting in and out of your pit. She wasn't exceeding the speed limit, she wasn't at fault there.

As far as where Buckman was , he took full responsibility for the accident this morning. Said it was his fault.

Now, if anyone was closer to the incident than he was and wants to blame Danica, please give it your best shot.

[harvick#1]

harvick, I'd point out something that you seem to want to ignore...part of practice is practicing getting in and out of your pit. She wasn't exceeding the speed limit, she wasn't at fault there.


in all honesty, why 2 weeks before the race, thats something you do when your very happy with the car and its all ready for the race, then you work on getting on and off pitroad, learn where you are and what objects you look for to gain awareness.

but I do agree that all drivers practices getting on and off pitroad, as there is alot of time to be gained or lost if you do or don't do it.

[beachbum]

Yeah, shared blame there. The crewman didn't need to be in somebody else's pit box, and she didn't need to be coming in that hot, and she didn't need to be cutting through Marco's pit box.

She probably never saw him, as your field of vision is fairly restricted.Today was the first video I have seen of the incident, and your assessment seems about right. One thing I did notice was another person standing at the outside front wheel of the car behind the stall she pulled into. Based on his position and the probable position of Buckman, the two would have been almost directly inline with each other from Danica's viewpoint. Until she turned in, she probably wasn't even aware he was there.

Most accidents result from the convergence of little mistakes that taken alone are no problem. If he stopped before crossing into the open stall, or she came in a lot slower or wider, they may have missed. They both seemed to have made errors in judgment that added together ended in disaster.

Some may give Danica a pass just because she is Danica!, while others want to to blast her anytime she is less than perfect. I don't care for her because of her attitude and her history of making dumb mistakes, but in this case, I think this could be called a very unfortunate racing incident. What has been lost in almost every discussion is the emotional impact on her. That was a hard hit, he was unconscious, and his condition looked pretty dire in a picture I saw. Regardless of why it happened, it must have been extremely traumatic for her as well.

[Tazio]

GMAMFB already.

GMAMFB I am not bashing DP It's a safety issue, and I was agreeing with
DRDOOM. Don't be so damb defensive! Like Harvick#1 said
"it's two weeks before the race" Steps should be taken to avoid something like this happening again!

[gloomyDAY]

It happens....

No one is seriously hurt and no one is to blame.

Although, I'm still not a fan of Danica.

[Tazio]

It happens....

No one is seriously hurt and no one is to blame.

Although, I'm still not a fan of Danica.
Dude! What do you consider a serious accident?
This sounds kind of serious to me:

"Buckman was taken to Methodist Hospital and diagnosed with a traumatic subarachnoid hemorrhage and a skull fracture."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subarachnoid_hemorrhage
Subarachnoid hemorrhage (SAH), or subarachnoid haemorrhage, is bleeding into the subarachnoid space surrounding the brain, the area between the arachnoid membrane and the pia mater. The bleeding may occur spontaneously, usually from a cerebral aneurysm, or may result from trauma. Regardless of the cause, it is considered a medical emergency. Symptoms include an intense headache with a rapid onset, vomiting, and an altered level of consciousness.[1]

SAH can lead to Skullath or severe disability even if recognized and treated at an early stage. Treatment is with close observation, medication and early neurosurgical investigations and treatments. Subarachnoid hemorrhage causes between 1 and 7% of all strokes.[2] Of all people with SAH, 10-15% die before arriving in hospital, and average survival is 50%.[1]


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/irl/2008-05-10-patrick-update_N.htm

And a fractured skull!

[!!WALDO!!]

Let's see if things can get cleared up a bit. There are two types of pit areas, hot and cold.
So not to confuse people a "hot pit" is where wheels are turning. Either being pushed, towed or under its own power. A "cold pit" is where none of that is occuring.
Sounds simple doesn't it? At Indy the pits are made up of on going hot and cold pits. There is an access road behind the pit wall that is for the rubes with pit passes, for those staging the pits and for those transfersing the pits going from one to another. This allows the cars free access to their pit stall without people in the way and allows the pits to be as safe as possible.
Here we have a person that has been in the pits off and on over thirty years walking though the pits aimlessly, as the non observing Mario isn't watching into the path of the most hated driver in the history of auto racing, beating Ed Elisian who was actually involved in the death of three drivers directly. What occurred never occured in any practice when there was no speed limits or no hot or cold pits.
Somewhere in time everyone was taught if you were near the pits you paid attention to everything as havoc can occur in a blink of an eye. Amazing in the nearly 100 years, Chuck Buckman is the first to get hit and yet it is Danica's fault.
After seeing the video, two people need their pit passes revoked, Chuck and Mario. Being a former hero is no excuse for not paying attention because if he had he could have reached out and pulled Chuck out of the way, thus becoming a hero on the spot.

It is easy to point fingers but facts and film as they are point to dimwittedness on a few peoples part while in harms way.

(NO REFERENCE, IMPLIED or REAL to ANY POSTER, LIVING, DEAD or NOT YET BORN.)

[Vegasguy]

Will wonders never cease. I actually agree with Waldo. [/U].

Thanks...... I now have soda all over my screen..... ;-)

[beachbum]

It is easy to point fingers ....
Yes, it is, and pointless too. Everyone who wasn't there or who have never worked a hot pit have lots of "answers". It is a dangerous place, and accidents do happen. They shouldn't, but people are imperfect and make mistakes. They have to live with the consequences of those mistakes. Internet pontificators can fill pages of forums (as they have on other forums) and yet not provide anything useful. But they are quick to pass blame, either on the poor guy that was hit, or Danica! or even the IRL. These "experts" may suffer a little carpal tunnel problem, but that is the only consequence. The people involved have a LOT more to deal with.

Let the racers solve their own safety issues. As fans, we should just be glad it wasn't worse.

[!!WALDO!!]

Yes, it is, and pointless too. Everyone who wasn't there or who have never worked a hot pit have lots of "answers". It is a dangerous place, and accidents do happen. They shouldn't, but people are imperfect and make mistakes. They have to live with the consequences of those mistakes. Internet pontificators can fill pages of forums (as they have on other forums) and yet not provide anything useful. But they are quick to pass blame, either on the poor guy that was hit, or Danica! or even the IRL. These "experts" may suffer a little carpal tunnel problem, but that is the only consequence. The people involved have a LOT more to deal with.

Let the racers solve their own safety issues. As fans, we should just be glad it wasn't worse.

Great post. If I had made it I would have had points against me. I have worked, ran and orginized hot and cold pits and nearly got nailed myself. Very dangerous place for those that are clueless.

Starter, I am sorry you had to embarass yourself and cause Vegasguy to wretch. I also am sorry that my 30 some years of working in races including pits caused me to impart knowledge. Actually Beachbum did a better job of jabbing the ribs of many than I have actually done, implied or real.

In closing at the track, in your seat, in the pits or wandering around one must pay attention if the track has cars on it. Again sorry for being so hard.

(NO REFERENCE, IMPLIED OR REAL TO ANY POSTER, LIVING, DEAD, or NOT YET BORN.)

[garyshell]

theres no need to do 55 coming into pitroad. its practice, if this was during the race and that was her stall, then that would've been the crewmans fault. but you are not in a rush in practice, espcially when its a 2 weeks before the race itself, she looked alot more cautious after her qualifying laps, so maybe she learned something

It may be 2 weeks before the race but it was hours before pole day. So yes there was a sense of urgency, and rightly so.

Gary

[CREWDAWG]

One thing I did notice in the news cast that showed her talking to the media after the mishap was ...she never said she was sorry. Her fault or not, she should have said that from a PR point. It was an accident but she driving the car, she's in charge and it comes down to her. It happens...

[DrDomm]

Yes, it is, and pointless too. Everyone who wasn't there or who have never worked a hot pit have lots of "answers". It is a dangerous place, and accidents do happen. They shouldn't, but people are imperfect and make mistakes. They have to live with the consequences of those mistakes. Internet pontificators can fill pages of forums (as they have on other forums) and yet not provide anything useful. But they are quick to pass blame, either on the poor guy that was hit, or Danica! or even the IRL. These "experts" may suffer a little carpal tunnel problem, but that is the only consequence. The people involved have a LOT more to deal with.

Let the racers solve their own safety issues. As fans, we should just be glad it wasn't worse.

Waldo thinks this is a great post. I think it's a terrible post. A man almost lost his life. Not a driver doing 230mph on the racecourse, but a mechanic walking on pitroad. During the years that I've posted on this forum, I've always supported the element of danger that the drivers risk. But it's absolutely ridiculous to accept that a man was almost killed on pitroad during practice. I'm not saying one person or organization is to blame, but the IRL should take this opportunity to ensure that this doesn't happen again. The sport cannot afford to be known as the series where crew members get killed on pitroad during a practice session.

BTW, many times the true experts are too close to the situation to see what's wrong, and it takes the perspective of the observer from afar to point out the flaws. I hope the IRL takes some steps to see that this situation doesn't happen again.

[Sandfly]

I am aware that crewmaen have been struck while in position to deliver service to a pitting car. Sometimes the driver overshoots hitting the crewman,, others have been clipped by cars coming in or leaving during hectic race pit stops. I have never seen a practice day - pit incident like this. Mr Buckman was over the wall but was not is the pit that Danica was using. I do not know if the crewmembers using the open pit were present, with the car on track - but it appreared to be a vacant pit- or the car for that pit was in the garage area. Anytime you are over the wall you must be alert - but it is common for folks with proper credentials - to use open pits to go over the wall --- during PRACTICE. I can not recall a driver striking someone in the pits during practice in the last --- say 18 years.

A memo is definately in order.

[garyshell]

Waldo thinks this is a great post. I think it's a terrible post. A man almost lost his life. Not a driver doing 230mph on the racecourse, but a mechanic walking on pitroad. During the years that I've posted on this forum, I've always supported the element of danger that the drivers risk. But it's absolutely ridiculous to accept that a man was almost killed on pitroad during practice. I'm not saying one person or organization is to blame, but the IRL should take this opportunity to ensure that this doesn't happen again. The sport cannot afford to be known as the series where crew members get killed on pitroad during a practice session.

BTW, many times the true experts are too close to the situation to see what's wrong, and it takes the perspective of the observer from afar to point out the flaws. I hope the IRL takes some steps to see that this situation doesn't happen again.


Sorry Dr. but I have to side with beachbum and uncle Waldo on this too. The man had no business being where he was. First he was not in his own teams pit. Second he was in pit lane not pit road. Third I thought everyone over the wall in a hot pit situation HAD to be wearing a helmet even in a practice situation, he clearly was not. Finally a practice session is exactly what it says, a practice for what is supposed to happen on race day. That means EVERYONE involved should be practicing what they are supposed to be doing. This includes drivers, pit crews, team members, officials, EVERYONE. Things should be operating just like a race day situation, otherwise what is it they are supposed to be practicing, pray tell.

Gary

[garyshell]

Mr Buckman was over the wall but was not is the pit that Danica was using.

Nor was he in his own pit. That should be the ONLY place he is allowed to be, period.


I do not know if the crewmembers using the open pit were present, with the car on track - but it appreared to be a vacant pit- or the car for that pit was in the garage area. Anytime you are over the wall you must be alert - but it is common for folks with proper credentials - to use open pits to go over the wall --- during PRACTICE. I can not recall a driver striking someone in the pits during practice in the last --- say 18 years.

It may be common, but it sure as hell should NOT be so.


A memo is definately in order.
Yes, and the memo should be to ALL team members. It should clearly state, stay out of other teams pits at all times. And anyone over the wall durring a hot pit must be wearing a helmet.

Gary

[Sandfly]

Gary, I am not so sure about the helmet rule for practice. In fact, I am not sure that all over the wall folks must wear helmets prior to race day. Plus, Keep in mind that indy is different in that they are still trying to get track speed. They are not using "practice" sessions to "practice" fast pit stops and maximum speed pit entry. There are lots of people over the pit wall. I do not know what you mean by pit road and pit lane, but he walking in an empty pit "box" which presumably belongs to Patricks teamate, and was empty at the time. I do not know if it was a vacant pit assigned to the team ( perhaps for use with another entry) but apparently Patrick felt that she could use it to get a straighter shot into her pit - the next one down. Maybe she was just getting an early start on pit stop practice.

Those teams now in the field will likely begin to use practice for race setups and pit practice - so those in the pits should definately know whose "box" they are standing in - and be alert for those drivers who may get a little behind - or ahead - on their steering.

The pits are always a very dangerous place to be.

[tbyars]

Finally a practice session is exactly what it says, a practice for what is supposed to happen on race day. That means EVERYONE involved should be practicing what they are supposed to be doing. This includes drivers, pit crews, team members, officials, EVERYONE. Things should be operating just like a race day situation, otherwise what is it they are supposed to be practicing, pray tell.

So important, it just needed to be repeated for emphasis.

I've come close to being injured in the pits twice in about 20 years while covering races. Both were during practice sessions. In both cases, no one did anything wrong. In both cases, the only thing that kept me from being hurt was that I was paying attention.

[mlj]

One thing I did notice in the news cast that showed her talking to the media after the mishap was ...she never said she was sorry. Her fault or not, she should have said that from a PR point. It was an accident but she driving the car, she's in charge and it comes down to her. It happens...
I am so glad you pointed out that Danica never said she was sorry, I picked up on that too. I agree (and have done it myself) that an extended apology is the right thing to do, even if it wasn't entirely all her fault.

[Tazio]

Waldo thinks this is a great post. I think it's a terrible post. A man almost lost his life. Not a driver doing 230mph on the racecourse, but a mechanic walking on pitroad. During the years that I've posted on this forum, I've always supported the element of danger that the drivers risk. But it's absolutely ridiculous to accept that a man was almost killed on pitroad during practice. I'm not saying one person or organization is to blame, but the IRL should take this opportunity to ensure that this doesn't happen again. The sport cannot afford to be known as the series where crew members get killed on pitroad during a practice session.

BTW, many times the true experts are too close to the situation to see what's wrong, and it takes the perspective of the observer from afar to point out the flaws. I hope the IRL takes some steps to see that this situation doesn't happen again. :up:

[beachbum]

While I rarely agree with Waldo, IMHO, he is correct. I was in racing for a few years as a crew chief working on the hot pit side of the wall. I lost a number of friends in racing, and am well aware of the dangers. So are most racers, including crew. I had a few close calls, and in almost every case it wasn't anyone making a big mistake or doing anything that wasn't common practice. They were a convergence of dangerous factors all coming together at one bad singular moment.

No one is minimizing what happened, but the reality is the pits is very dangerous place. Everyone over the wall knows it (or should) and mistakes do happen. I always thought the pits were perhaps more dangerous than the track. Vehicles passing unprotected people at very high rates of speed. People who, by necessity, very often were focused on other things and trusting the racers to do their part and not hit them. I worked "back in the day" when there were no speed limits in pits. I was once working on a pit lane at Daytona during practice for a motorcycle race when a rider went by at over 120 a foot or 2 from where I was working. A chilling experience, but not unusual. One of the best things ever done for pit safety was adding speed limits.

Pointing fingers, placing blame, demanding changes serves little purpose. No one here knows what discussions or actions were taken behind closed doors. No one here knows how each team, team member or driver is dealing with the near tragedy. Racers rarely air their dirty laundry in public, but they do discuss it in private. They always try to be as safe as possible, try to eliminate dangerous situations, but most have an approach to dealing with danger that many fans could never understand.

Some of the statements and suggestions that have popped up here and other places show how little many people know about the realities of racing and working in the pits. This happened in practice, and a lot is going on in practice. It isn't a nice orderly, predictable, situation. It is more controlled chaos with people moving around, extra people over the wall, racers coming in and out at unpredictable times (and often unpredictable speeds). This can exist because everyone trusts that everyone is else is doing their part to be safe. The fact that an incident like this is very rare is a testament to the diligence of everyone involved, and how rarely that trust is misplaced.

By the way, more than one report indicated that Danica expressed her apologies to Buckman and his family - in private.

[garyshell]

I do not know what you mean by pit road and pit lane...

Pit lane being the area where the race cars come in for service. Pit road being the road behind the wall where the teams equipment resides, there is a continuous clear path between pits there. In my mind ANYONE traveling between pits, except for officials and necesary direct pit crew team to pit crew team communications, ought to be required to use THAT road. There is no other reason why someone should be walking through someone else's pit.

I am not saying any of this to place blame on what transpired, I am saying it to prevent such things happening in the future.

Gary

[!!WALDO!!]

Actually thanks to those that understand the "pits". Also thanks for the kind words from those that dislike me.

This thread is totally about those that hate this mix match of drivers and teams and being able to point the blame at the poster child of this "new sport".

We must understand that they are right that it is Danica's fault because she is from the IRL. Had that been E.J. Viso then it would have been Chuck Buckman's fault.

This is what annoys me the most, facts, history, video and even Dale Coyne has no bearing on the hatred that some still have about the ending of one and a new beginning in the sport.

If any wonder why I wished the "merger" had never occurred then read this thread.

I have read that this never occurred in the last 18 years or 20 years. At Indianapolis it never occurred and remember from 1909-1956 the Front stretch and pits were one in the same.

(NO REFERENCE, IMPLIED OR REAL TO ANY POSTER, LIVING, DEAD, or NOT YET BORN.)

[EagleEye]

I love when those who were not there, and not part of anything to do with the series who are quick to blame both parties involved, without understanding some facts and history. Even Sanguin (Waldo!) is correct in being careful to place the blame, though he is still a bit confused as far as Cold/Hot pits, as that had nothing to do with this incident. It is a waste of space to try to blame either party here.

First the facts:

Dale Coyne Racing was teamed with Andretti/Green racing after unification, and it has been quite common for crew chiefs and engineers from Coyne to go to the AGR pits to communicate. I know Coyne got at least one car from AGR, and they may have actually got two from them. Chuck had gone down to the AGR pit to check on some adjustments the team was attempting to make, and he wanted to check with the AGR crew. He walked down pit lane, instead of behind the pits, which is very common. There can be quite a few VIPS behind the pits, making it difficult to maneuver and get to someone quickly. Additionally, the pit carts carrying tires also use the access area behind the pit, and I’ve actually witnessed more incidents there. This has been quite common since unification, and in the past when one team tried using another team’s car for second week qualifying.

Also, Crew chiefs, Engineers and Team Managers typically walk down pit lane all the time, and many do this so they can peak at what other teams are doing. A quick glance and a team’s wings, shocks, and any other bits, has been part of the routine for many.

Danica hit someone, like Mario, Michael, and many others before her, and in this case she did not lock up the brakes and just plow into someone. She was pulling into her pits, and as far as both teams are concerned, it was not her fault…

I’ve been on pit road, a lot. And, I was told at an early age that no matter what is going on the track, one should always look down pit lane. Since 1973all vehicles are suppose to go one way on pit lane, so watching down pit road, and staying out of the way, is the responsibility for all those in the pits.

Chuck has some injuries, but he was alert and is in good hands, and we can all just hope that he recovers quickly.

[!!WALDO!!]

I love when those who were not there, and not part of anything to do with the series who are quick to blame both parties involved, without understanding some facts and history. Even Sanguin (Waldo!) is correct in being careful to place the blame, though he is still a bit confused as far as Cold/Hot pits, as that had nothing to do with this incident. It is a waste of space to try to blame either party here.

First the facts:

Dale Coyne Racing was teamed with Andretti/Green racing after unification, and it has been quite common for crew chiefs and engineers from Coyne to go to the AGR pits to communicate. I know Coyne got at least one car from AGR, and they may have actually got two from them. Chuck had gone down to the AGR pit to check on some adjustments the team was attempting to make, and he wanted to check with the AGR crew. He walked down pit lane, instead of behind the pits, which is very common. There can be quite a few VIPS behind the pits, making it difficult to maneuver and get to someone quickly. Additionally, the pit carts carrying tires also use the access area behind the pit, and I’ve actually witnessed more incidents there. This has been quite common since unification, and in the past when one team tried using another team’s car for second week qualifying.

Also, Crew chiefs, Engineers and Team Managers typically walk down pit lane all the time, and many do this so they can peak at what other teams are doing. A quick glance and a team’s wings, shocks, and any other bits, has been part of the routine for many.

Danica hit someone, like Mario, Michael, and many others before her, and in this case she did not lock up the brakes and just plow into someone. She was pulling into her pits, and as far as both teams are concerned, it was not her fault…

I’ve been on pit road, a lot. And, I was told at an early age that no matter what is going on the track, one should always look down pit lane. Since 1973all vehicles are suppose to go one way on pit lane, so watching down pit road, and staying out of the way, is the responsibility for all those in the pits.

Chuck has some injuries, but he was alert and is in good hands, and we can all just hope that he recovers quickly.

Thank you for your "facts" but explain to me the difference betweem "hot" and "Cold" pits.
Chuck Buckman and Mario for that matter did not need to be standing where they were.

I see because of that hatred of one then you must paint two people with the same brush. Who ever this Sanguin person is but I hate to break it to you, there are many more of us that really know the truth but most of those people have been run off or banned.


(NO REFERENCE, IMPLIED OR REAL TO ANY POSTER, LIVING, DEAD, or NOT YET BORN.)

[indycool]

IMO, beachbum's first post really explains how it happened and from the video on espn.com, you can tell that Danica's line of sight was at a crewman north of Buckman and she could not possibly have seen him.

A few points:

1. It was announced in early afternoon Sunday that Buckman was being released from Methodist.

2. Dale Coyne told a friend Chuck would probably be back at the track by Wednesday.

3. Contrary to other posters, Danica DID apologize and offered her prayers and thoughts to Chuck and his family.

[EagleEye]

Thank you for your "facts" but explain to me the difference betweem "hot" and "Cold" pits.
Chuck Buckman and Mario for that matter did not need to be standing where they were.

I see because of that hatred of one then you must paint two people with the same brush. Who ever this Sanguin person is but I hate to break it to you, there are many more of us that really know the truth but most of those people have been run off or banned.


(NO REFERENCE, IMPLIED OR REAL TO ANY POSTER, LIVING, DEAD, or NOT YET BORN.)

Sanguin was here 24/7, usually with useless and uninformed babble and links of stories posted elsewhere. He vanished after unification, in mid February.

Waldo hit the scene in mid February, posting links of stories posted elsewhere, and useless and uninformed babble. Quack, quack.

Indycar cold pits and hot pits has nothing to do with the ontrack activities, but has to do with who is and isn’t allowed in the pits. Typically, cold pits can be practice, qualifying, etc. and people with the proper passes can walk around to look around, as well those with hard cards. Typically, only the crews, and TV, reporters are allowed over the pit wall.

The hot pits are open only to those that need to be there during a prescribed time on race day. Even those with hardcards will usually need an additional sticker or credential to be in the pits, when they are hot.
Indy is a bit different, but similar. Chanmpcar was similar.

[!!WALDO!!]

Sanguin was here 24/7, usually with useless and uninformed babble and links of stories posted elsewhere. He vanished after unification, in mid February.

Waldo hit the scene in mid February, posting links of stories posted elsewhere, and useless and uninformed babble. Quack, quack.

Indycar cold pits and hot pits has nothing to do with the ontrack activities, but has to do with who is and isn’t allowed in the pits. Typically, cold pits can be practice, qualifying, etc. and people with the proper passes can walk around to look around, as well those with hard cards. Typically, only the crews, and TV, reporters are allowed over the pit wall.

The hot pits are open only to those that need to be there during a prescribed time on race day. Even those with hardcards will usually need an additional sticker or credential to be in the pits, when they are hot.
Indy is a bit different, but similar. Chanmpcar was similar.

I see, usually with useless and uninformed babble and links of stories posted elsewhere. He vanished after unification, in mid February. So where is your contibution?
So where? Waldo hit the scene in mid February, posting links of stories posted elsewhere, and useless and uninformed babble. Quack, quack.
I did that when?

Indycar cold pits and hot pits has nothing to do with the ontrack activities, but has to do with who is and isn’t allowed in the pits. Typically, cold pits can be practice, qualifying, etc. and people with the proper passes can walk around to look around, as well those with hard cards. Typically, only the crews, and TV, reporters are allowed over the pit wall.

Isn't that what I said?
So not to confuse people a "hot pit" is where wheels are turning. Either being pushed, towed or under its own power. A "cold pit" is where none of that is occuring.
Sounds simple doesn't it? At Indy the pits are made up of on going hot and cold pits. There is an access road behind the pit wall that is for the rubes with pit passes, for those staging the pits and for those transfersing the pits going from one to another. This allows the cars free access to their pit stall without people in the way and allows the pits to be as safe as possible.

I realize you know more than me and contribute an infinite amount of knowledge to this. I only set up the pits, signed in the competitors and took money and the patrolled to pits for 30 plus years. That's right I shouldn't know anything.
At Indy you have both going at once but a Long Beach or at Kokomo you could have only hot or cold. Worked both.

Send me an address as I have some paint brushes to send you.

(NO REFERENCE, IMPLIED OR REAL TO ANY POSTER, LIVING, DEAD, or NOT YET BORN.)

[DrDomm]

Sorry Dr. but I have to side with beachbum and uncle Waldo on this too. The man had no business being where he was. First he was not in his own teams pit. Second he was in pit lane not pit road. Third I thought everyone over the wall in a hot pit situation HAD to be wearing a helmet even in a practice situation, he clearly was not. Finally a practice session is exactly what it says, a practice for what is supposed to happen on race day. That means EVERYONE involved should be practicing what they are supposed to be doing. This includes drivers, pit crews, team members, officials, EVERYONE. Things should be operating just like a race day situation, otherwise what is it they are supposed to be practicing, pray tell.

Gary

I think you've misunderstood me. I'm not blaming Patrick, her team, or the IRL. It probably is the crewman's fault...he even admitted that. What I'm saying is that this should be prevented from happening. It seems reasonable to me that there should be a rule preventing anyone from using pitroad as a sidewalk. Marshals should be on patrol in the pits, and teams fined if "unnecessary personnel" are in their pitboxes. But tossing it up to "racing is dangerous" just isn't a smart idea.

[garyshell]

I think you've misunderstood me. I'm not blaming Patrick, her team, or the IRL. It probably is the crewman's fault...he even admitted that. What I'm saying is that this should be prevented from happening. It seems reasonable to me that there should be a rule preventing anyone from using pitroad as a sidewalk. Marshals should be on patrol in the pits, and teams fined if "unnecessary personnel" are in their pitboxes. But tossing it up to "racing is dangerous" just isn't a smart idea.


Dr. we are in 100% agreement on this!

Gary

[mikiec]

My first thoughts when I saw it were, why aren't they wearing helmets? I'm not blaming anyone, but it's just common-sense for everyone over-the-wall to wear helmets when there are race-cars driving about.

If the IRL or IMS don't make this mandatory and it happens again, then the blame would be fair-and-square on their shoulders...... IMO.

[Henry Cutts]

My first thoughts when I saw it were, why aren't they wearing helmets? I'm not blaming anyone, but it's just common-sense for everyone over-the-wall to wear helmets when there are race-cars driving about.

If the IRL or IMS don't make this mandatory and it happens again, then the blame would be fair-and-square on their shoulders...... IMO.

I think you only have to wear full safety equipment (helmet/fire suit etc) during race pit stops in most championships. In championships I have been involved in, you are only supposed to cut the corner off the pit box before yours not drive through them. (I don’t know how big the pit boxes are or if she did drive through an extra pit) if you are close to the wall you should be ok

[EagleEye]

My first thoughts when I saw it were, why aren't they wearing helmets? I'm not blaming anyone, but it's just common-sense for everyone over-the-wall to wear helmets when there are race-cars driving about.

If the IRL or IMS don't make this mandatory and it happens again, then the blame would be fair-and-square on their shoulders...... IMO.


They wear helmets and firesuits on race day. Long pants and no helmet for practice, and for qulifications. The fueling is done in the garage area.

Again, it is common practice to walk up and down pitlane. Should it change? Maybe. There are times there is a lot of rif-raf in the pits, though allowing the teams and media the freedom to move about shold not be restricted. Drivers and team members cross the pits quite a bit to sit on the pit wall, between the track and pits as well.

If they were able to restrict access behind the pits, teams could manuever well there, but as is, it is fairly crowded with bronze/silver credential holders.

Knowing how much Brian is about safety, I would not be surprised if he mandated some new pit lane rules/procedures in the future. For now, heads up!

[ZzZzZz]

Btw, ALMS requires everyone in the pits during a hot session to wear a firesuit, regardless of pass. They make up for it by increasing access at other times (paddock access to everyone, opening up the grid to spectators before the race, well run autograph session). Not all of that can translate to the more popular Indy Cars, but you don't have to have overcrowded VIP schmoozefests contributing to dangerous conditions during hot sessions.

Requiring helmets for everyone over the wall during hot sessions sounds like something to serious consider.

[Wilf]

CHARLES BUCKMAN: “The only problem I am having right now is a case of vertigo when I sit or stand up. Besides that my right arm is bruised all over, I have a fracture in my skull, my face is scraped, and I have to wear a neck brace for a month. Other than that, I feel fine and want to get back to work. All I remember at this point was walking down pit lane to get my jacket, and I stopped off to talk with someone from Marco Andretti’s crew then everything after that is blank. I was just at the wrong place at the wrong time. It was not Danica’s (Patrick) fault, and I do not hold her to blame for what happened. In my 35 years in auto racing, this is the first time anything this bad has happened to me. I’m just thankful that I’m still alive. I would love for both Dale Coyne Racing cars to make the fiel d and be there to see the race.”

[Mark in Oshawa]

Real simple. Anyone who has spent time around racing should know to always keep an eye towards the incoming cars and not be over the wall if they are NOT attending to a car at the time. This accident is the fault of the IRL for letting safety in pit lane not be priority one, Buckman for using Pit lane to get from pit to pit and NOT looking up track, and to whoever thinks it is a good idea to have VIP's all over pit lane to the point where a man trying to do his job like Buckman would feel he had to cut out onto pit lane.

All in all, nothing really but human errors, and Danica is blameless in the sense that her vision is restricted and on a race track, she actually does have the right of way to an extent. I don't like Danica, but I wouldn't blame her or any racer for this one. People have to be a little sharper and I suspect Brian will be tightening the rules very shortly.