Giancarlo Fisichella

[woody2goody]

Time, finally to start a thread about one of my favourite drivers.

It's been difficult to be a Fisi-fan the last few years, when potential title challenges didn't materialise and he was forced, for the first time, to play second fiddle.

However there is renewed hope for me this year, as he has been very good for Force India-Ferrari, almost getting a point or two in Spain.

I believe there are several reasons why Giancarlo struggled so much at renault compared to Alonso:

I don't believe that Giancarlo is 0.2, 0.3 slower than Fernando, or indeed anyone, so there must have been contributing factors to Alonso winning 2 titles and not Fisi.

1. The car - The Renaults of '05 and '06 were great cars, championship-winning cars, but they were known for having significant understeer. Fernando Alonso's driving style suited this perfectly, unlike Fisichella's which relies slightly more on having a well-balanced, slightly oversteery car.

2. Alonso - no doubt about it, Fernando is a fantastic driver. He seems to be able to extract extra performance out of a car, whereas someone like Massa or Hamilton doesn't appear to be able to do that. He was faster than Fisi, usually by 0.2/0.3 seconds. However all that is not talent.

Fernando seems to be slightly more ruthless than Giancarlo, especially at the starts when he usually made up places and Fisi didn't.

3. Bad luck - It was almost like Rubens Barrichello had been cloned and put in the Renault team. At Ferrari, whenever anything went wrong with the car, it was nearly always Rubens' and not Michael Schumacher's. Rubens got caught up in most of the accidents, had to stack pit-stops behind the safety car, etc.

This was almost exactly the same as what happened at Renault a couple of years ago. Nearly all the pit-stop mistakes, mechanical failures and such went to Fisi, leaving Alonso to ride off into the sunset.

Many people have raised the topic of Fisi disappointing once he (finally) got to a top team. His results were disappointing, but he always seemed to have more luck when he drove for inferior teams, for some reason. I still think he would be doing a better job at Renault this year than Piquet.

He has stacked up favourably against his team-mates during his career, apart from Alonso and maybe Kovalainen that is:

1996: Minardi - Fisi 0, Lamy/Lavaggi 0
1997: Jordan - Fisi 20, R Schumacher 13
1998: Benetton - Fisi 16, Wurz 17
1999: Benetton - Fisi 13, Wurz 3
2000: Benetton - Fisi 18, Wurz 2
2001: Benetton - Fisi 8, Button 2
2002: Jordan - Fisi 7, Sato 2
2003: Jordan - Fisi 12 (1 win), Firman 1
2004: Sauber - Fisi 22, Massa 12
2005: Renault - Fisi 58, Alonso 133
2006: Renault - Fisi 72, Alonso 134
2007: Renault - Fisi 21, Kovalainen 30
2008: Force India - Fisi 0, Sutil 0

I eagerly await everyone's thoughts on the veteran Italian.

[aryan]

I did not expect him to lose to Kovalainen. Kovi was a rookie, and not a pilot Renault was banking on (as they didn't retain him).

Having said that, I still highly, I mean very highly rate Fisoco. He is IMO one of the top 5-6 drivers in F1. He's been forced to Jordan before (2004) and managed to salvage his career. I hope he can do the same again.

[jens]

Fisichella is a very talented driver, but also a sensitive one. He reminds me a bit of Frentzen, who could excel in the right environment, but could struggle, when the team isn't behind him. Or let's say that they are less adaptable than those so-called top drivers - as Fisi couldn't adapt to Renault's specific car behaviour, which really suited Alonso. We know that Renault has struggled with Bridgestone's, but they managed to take the maximum from Michelins - in order to extract maximum from M's, also an aggressive driving style was needed. On his day Fisichella could be exceptionally quick, we saw it in Jordan, Benetton and Sauber. Even at Renault he had a few such drives, but the amount of them was too small to put together a strong season.

GF and HHF are such kind of drivers, who most of all need team support. The difference between GF and HHF has been that unlike HHF, GF has never had the opportunity to be a team leader in a team, whose car is good enough for a very good season like the German had in Jordan back in 1999. In Fisi's case there were a lot of expectations before 2007 - he was the team leader and hoping for a top car... I think Fisi's first half of 2007 is very underestimated. He had some very impressive performances, where he totally destroyed Kovalainen, creating talks like the Finn is not good enough for F1. Heikki raised his game in the second half of the season, but with the exception of the messy Fuji race he never matched the results Fisi had shown on some circuits in the beginning of the season (5th in Australia and 4th at Monaco). I suspect that after a couple of good performances by Kovalainen, Fisichella lost team support and it became obvious that this was his last season at Renault. As a result the Italian's season fell apart, he started making mistakes in almost every weekend and maybe became unmotivated too (didn't have the winning car he was hoping for).

Fisichella as a smooth driver has definetely benefitted from TC-ban and I guess he would be a lot closer to Alonso now if they were team-mates.

[veeten]

and wouldn't you know, he gets a 3 spot penalty for jumping the red light to start practice. :s

Good timing... ;)

[wedge]

Many people have raised the topic of Fisi disappointing once he (finally) got to a top team. His results were disappointing, but he always seemed to have more luck when he drove for inferior teams, for some reason.

Quite simply, as good as Fisi is, put Fisi against Alonso or any other superior driver and he'll look stupid and struggles to raise his game at the top level.

His win at Malaysia in 2006 was a good example - he drove on the absolute limit to get that win, whereas Rubens could beat Schumi and make it look easy.

As a top driver you really shouldn't expect to struggle with adapting and altering your driving style and set up - which Fisi struggled more often than not, remember Imola?

- Fisi we're gonna give you 2 turns of front wing

- Yeah, and the car is still sh*t!

Whereas Rubens went to Ferrari and had to learn a completely different driving style and set up.

Rubens and DC did sterling jobs of getting podiums in a top team whereas Fisi struggled to match the top drivers.

[aryan]

Rubens and DC did sterling jobs of getting podiums in a top team whereas Fisi struggled to match the top drivers.



To be fair to Fisico, both Rubens and DC spent far more years in top teams than Fisi. The ratio of their podiums and wins per year is probably about the same.

[keysersoze]

I'm a big Fisi fan and I echo what Aryan said--didn't expect him to be beaten by Kova in the second half of '07.

And I really can't excuse him for getting beaten as badly as he got beat by Alonso. I'll always for him, but he's never been, or will be, a Raikkonen or an Alonso, who I feel are the two best in the business.

But I think he's on par with the rest of them.

[woody2goody]

Whereas Rubens went to Ferrari and had to learn a completely different driving style and set up.

And then the poor guy had to go to Honda and do it all again!!

[wedge]

To be fair to Fisico, both Rubens and DC spent far more years in top teams than Fisi. The ratio of their podiums and wins per year is probably about the same.

But DC had some great tussles with Schumi such as France 2000, and Rubens had some great races such as Silverstone 2003 with one stunning overtaking move after another.

Can't really say the same thing with Fisi between 2005-06. All I remember about 2005 is "Alonso's quicker, let him through mate"



GF and HHF are such kind of drivers, who most of all need team support. The difference between GF and HHF has been that unlike HHF, GF has never had the opportunity to be a team leader in a team, whose car is good enough for a very good season like the German had in Jordan back in 1999. In Fisi's case there were a lot of expectations before 2007 - he was the team leader and hoping for a top car... I think Fisi's first half of 2007 is very underestimated. He had some very impressive performances, where he totally destroyed Kovalainen, creating talks like the Finn is not good enough for F1. Heikki raised his game in the second half of the season, but with the exception of the messy Fuji race he never matched the results Fisi had shown on some circuits in the beginning of the season (5th in Australia and 4th at Monaco). I suspect that after a couple of good performances by Kovalainen, Fisichella lost team support and it became obvious that this was his last season at Renault. As a result the Italian's season fell apart, he started making mistakes in almost every weekend and maybe became unmotivated too (didn't have the winning car he was hoping for).

The thing Alonso would be a valid excuse except Fisi was supposedly the team leader last year and messed that up as a whole.

Apologies for coming across as bashing Fisi. Never warmed to him and not rated him highly, thought he was bit over-rated and my suspicions have been confirmed.

[keysersoze]

Good gosh, Fisi. :rolleyes:

[woody2goody]

Yeah. Apart from outqualifying Sutil, he had a pretty awful weekend.

[Garry Walker]

Fisis problem is that he has little mental strength, is too emotional and is likely to crack easily.

[Ranger]

That weak excuse was plain poor form given he was obviously most at fault.

Terrible showing.

[truefan72]

I don't think Fisi has little mental strength or is emotional/
All this stems from his time at Renault where IMO he had to deal with trhe abuse from Flavio and the team. I never liked the waythey treated him there and take little away from his time there.

He is a solid driver, when given the right support and car is capable of winning races and competing at the top. Massa is doing exactly what Fisi did at renault, although I think Massa is getting moresupport from the team than Fisi ever did.

[woody2goody]

When Fisi went there, it was very much Alonso's team. Like it was Fisi's team in 2001, and Trulli's in 2002, even though Button scored more points. This is why Trulli lost out in 2004. The team were more behind Alonso.

It seems that Renault, although they don't admit it, have ONE driver that they back at the start of a year.

I thought it was very unfair to get rid of Trulli, after he had taken a win for them, scored more points than Alonso, and was understandably shaken after their car failure through Bridge corner could have killed him.

They almost didn't care what Giancarlo did last year, because it was Kovalainen who they really wanted to do well.

[truefan72]

When Fisi went there, it was very much Alonso's team. Like it was Fisi's team in 2001, and Trulli's in 2002, even though Button scored more points. This is why Trulli lost out in 2004. The team were more behind Alonso.

It seems that Renault, although they don't admit it, have ONE driver that they back at the start of a year.

I thought it was very unfair to get rid of Trulli, after he had taken a win for them, scored more points than Alonso, and was understandably shaken after their car failure through Bridge corner could have killed him.

They almost didn't care what Giancarlo did last year, because it was Kovalainen who they really wanted to do well.

yep

[Valve Bounce]

Not a good time to start a thread about Fisi; not when he failed to negotiate turn #1 in Turkey three years in a row. That would make him a Turkey, no!!

[keysersoze]

Since Interlagos last year, the Fish has shunted himself out on lap one--in three of the last six races. :rolleyes:

[Ranger]

Since Interlagos last year, the Fish has shunted himself out on lap one--in three of the last six races. :rolleyes:

What's that figure like for Sutil?

[ioan]

What's that figure like for Sutil?

Whatever the figure for Sutil it won't change what Fisi did. Same goes for DC and his passing/deffending antics.

[jens]

Well, that's typical Fisichella. As an emotional guy between flashes of brilliance he overtries. :)

[Ranger]

Whatever the figure for Sutil it won't change what Fisi did. Same goes for DC and his passing/deffending antics.

No-one said it would. But in perspective, despite that moment of madness, Fisi is undoubtably doing better than his team-mate.

[Mk2_Escort_RS]

No-one said it would. But in perspective, despite that moment of madness, Fisi is undoubtably doing better than his team-mate.

Except in Turkey... :D

[aryan]

No-one said it would. But in perspective, despite that moment of madness, Fisi is undoubtably doing better than his team-mate.


Yeah, well for all practical purposes, Glock is still a rookie. I'm waiting to see if he can do a Heikki in the second half of the season.

[Ranger]

Yeah, well for all practical purposes, Glock is still a rookie. I'm waiting to see if he can do a Heikki in the second half of the season.

You mean Sutil... who has already had 1 full season and is both slower and more accident-prone than Fisi. ;)

[Valve Bounce]

No-one said it would. But in perspective, despite that moment of madness, Fisi is undoubtably doing better than his team-mate.

Three years in a row in Turkey?? This guy is an experienced F1 driver for God's sake; not that I have much time for Sutil, who seems to like running into the other tail enders.

[aryan]

You mean Sutil... who has already had 1 full season and is both slower and more accident-prone than Fisi. ;)

Brain fade... :rolleyes:

[keysersoze]

I am the "Force India" at my local kart club. I have just started my karting "career" this year, and I am generally slower than everyone else. I have no chance at the moment to be anywhere near the front.

So, I have one overriding objective once the race starts:

DRIVE MY HEAD OFF, BUT FINISH THE RACE WITHOUT WRECKING

After three races, I've qualified last two times. The other time I qualified 6th out of 10. Even then, did I get racey and start taking risks? Heck no. I do not even have a tire mark on my kart yet. And I'm getting a bit faster each time.

Force India should hang it all out in qualifying, yes. But once they've found their pace (and place), they need to focus on fuel and tire strategy to move up the order--not desperate moves at the beginning of a race. Those acts just set the program back.

[ArrowsFA1]

Fisi will become the 9th member of the 200 GP Starts club in Monaco this weekend :s mokin:

[aryan]

How many members does the 200 GP finishes club have?

[Tallgeese]

Time, finally to start a thread about one of my favourite drivers.

It's been difficult to be a Fisi-fan the last few years, when potential title challenges didn't materialise and he was forced, for the first time, to play second fiddle.

However there is renewed hope for me this year, as he has been very good for Force India-Ferrari, almost getting a point or two in Spain.

I believe there are several reasons why Giancarlo struggled so much at renault compared to Alonso:

I don't believe that Giancarlo is 0.2, 0.3 slower than Fernando, or indeed anyone, so there must have been contributing factors to Alonso winning 2 titles and not Fisi.

1. The car - The Renaults of '05 and '06 were great cars, championship-winning cars, but they were known for having significant understeer. Fernando Alonso's driving style suited this perfectly, unlike Fisichella's which relies slightly more on having a well-balanced, slightly oversteery car.

2. Alonso - no doubt about it, Fernando is a fantastic driver. He seems to be able to extract extra performance out of a car, whereas someone like Massa or Hamilton doesn't appear to be able to do that. He was faster than Fisi, usually by 0.2/0.3 seconds. However all that is not talent.

Fernando seems to be slightly more ruthless than Giancarlo, especially at the starts when he usually made up places and Fisi didn't.

3. Bad luck - It was almost like Rubens Barrichello had been cloned and put in the Renault team. At Ferrari, whenever anything went wrong with the car, it was nearly always Rubens' and not Michael Schumacher's. Rubens got caught up in most of the accidents, had to stack pit-stops behind the safety car, etc.

This was almost exactly the same as what happened at Renault a couple of years ago. Nearly all the pit-stop mistakes, mechanical failures and such went to Fisi, leaving Alonso to ride off into the sunset.

Many people have raised the topic of Fisi disappointing once he (finally) got to a top team. His results were disappointing, but he always seemed to have more luck when he drove for inferior teams, for some reason. I still think he would be doing a better job at Renault this year than Piquet.

He has stacked up favourably against his team-mates during his career, apart from Alonso and maybe Kovalainen that is:

1996: Minardi - Fisi 0, Lamy/Lavaggi 0
1997: Jordan - Fisi 20, R Schumacher 13
1998: Benetton - Fisi 16, Wurz 17
1999: Benetton - Fisi 13, Wurz 3
2000: Benetton - Fisi 18, Wurz 2
2001: Benetton - Fisi 8, Button 2
2002: Jordan - Fisi 7, Sato 2
2003: Jordan - Fisi 12 (1 win), Firman 1
2004: Sauber - Fisi 22, Massa 12
2005: Renault - Fisi 58, Alonso 133
2006: Renault - Fisi 72, Alonso 134
2007: Renault - Fisi 21, Kovalainen 30
2008: Force India - Fisi 0, Sutil 0

I eagerly await everyone's thoughts on the veteran Italian.

No doubt Fisichella is a good racer but he's not championship material. Alonso simply was more aggressive but I doubt that they designed the car for Alonso to win that wasn't suited to Fisichella's driving style. Perhaps they realised that Alonso with an 'under-steery' car was better than Fisichella in an 'over-steery' variant of the car so decided to go accordingly. Regardless, few other drivers would have tallied or supported Renault to chalk up as many points as they did in 2005 & 2006.

In 2007 his experience did help Renault stay on the score-sheet, but in the end it was Kovalainen who not only outscored him but also coaxed more out of the R27. I wouldn't have gone as far as making Fisichella the #2 driver then & there, obviously he's more experienced than Kovalainen & his input would be more appreciated at this level, where Kovalainen would have been counted upon to score the bulk of the points.

I believe that Renault's decision to relegate Fisichella to the role of test-driver was a major error & had more to do with everybody wanting to see Piquet Junior race as soon as possible. In the end, they lost a great support player, & Fisichella would have no doubt scored a few more points for Renault & would have no doubt aided Alonso. In the end, promoting Piquet junior was a mistake.

[Anubis]

Reminds me very much of Alesi. Both undoubtedly talented, but very prone to epic loss of form or rash mistakes. They both ought to have done much more in F1, but for some reason, be it bad luck, poor choices or lack of mental toughness, never quite managed it.

[Tallgeese]

Don't know about talented. Fisichella is a very good driver, but hardly gifted (relatively to Alonso or others) but he's a solid performer & great test driver. I guess he's just not a 'sniper' but I'd want him to be the wing-man of an ace driver anyday. Very few could serve more than just support.