Pole/Race Turkey

[Tazio]

1/2 hour into practice SB is only one to complete a lap!
PM me if you want to get it on streaming video

[Tazio]

The track is a mess almost all the major player have had spins they wshed the surface too close to the start of practice! It's damp, and green 1/2 hour left Massa over HK by .3

[Powered by Cosworth]

I'm watching, Vettel looks like he's having a bad start. 15 laps and last D:

It's great without commentary ^___^

[woody2goody]

I'm listening to the Radio 5 commentary with the ITV streaming. It's good but the video is delayed compared to the commentary lol.

David Croft has to be a commentary contender for next year on BBC TV.

Lol at Kimi finishing about 20th :) No one mentioned him in the 'who will be last now' thread!

[Ranger]

Hopefully those Newey machines were sandbagging. Effectively they got the slowest 4 times on offer!

[Tazio]

I'm watching, Vettel looks like he's having a bad start. 15 laps and last D:

It's great without commentary ^___^
Everyone was sliding all over the place!
Why di Kimi only run 3 laps?

[Hawkmoon]

Everyone was sliding all over the place!
Why di Kimi only run 3 laps?

Ferraris bookend the timesheet but I ask the same question. What happened to Raikkonen? He ran wide at one stage but so did everybody else. The next I saw of his car it was in pieces in the garage.

[Tazio]

Ferraris bookend the timesheet but I ask the same question. What happened to Raikkonen? He ran wide at one stage but so did everybody else. The next I saw of his car it was in pieces in the garage.We can't take much from these times Why would they wash the track right before practice That was a joke for the first 30 min. Masa was looking good. HK was the only driver to use a set of options from what Icould see! Kimi just might of said I'm not going out inthese conditions! I guess will find out pretty soon if Kimi had a ptoblem!

[janneppi]

Finnish sites said Kimi had gearbox problems.

[Tazio]

Finnish sites said Kimi had gearbox problems.Yep they got it right

While his Ferrari teammate Kimi Raikkonen had to sit out most of the session with a gearbox issue, Massa led the way with a 1:27.323 lap, one tenth of a second ahead of McLaren's Heikki Kovalainen.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67233
Could Kimi get a grid penalty out of this?

[ArrowsFA1]

Good start to the weekend for Button & Barrichello.

[Tazio]

The traction was terrible BMW couldn't find any grip! really bad showing I think were going to see muchfaster times in the next sesssion!

[Hawkmoon]

Yep they got it right

While his Ferrari teammate Kimi Raikkonen had to sit out most of the session with a gearbox issue, Massa led the way with a 1:27.323 lap, one tenth of a second ahead of McLaren's Heikki Kovalainen.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67233
Could Kimi get a grid penalty out of this?

No penalty. Friday is literally "free" practice.

Still not good. I guess it's better to happen today than tommorrow.

[Tazio]

No penalty. Friday is literally "free" practice.

Still not good. I guess it's better to happen today than tommorrow.
:up:

[Powered by Cosworth]

There's a dribble of rain forecast to end in the next 5 mins or so.

[jens]

As the GP weekend has started I thought I would put some statistics into this thread. This is a comparison between 2007 and 2008 after four races. In the brackets there is the amount of points a team has lost compared to the start of the last season.

Ferrari - 49/47 (-2)
BMW - 23/35 (+12)
McLaren - 58/34 (-24)
Williams - 5/12 (+7)
Toyota - 5/9 (+4)
Red Bull - 4/8 (+4)
Renault - 11/6 (-5)
Honda - 0/3 (+3)
STR - 0/2 (+2)
Spyker/FI - 0/0 (=)
Super Aguri - 1/0 (-1)

The reason for that is to show that competition has become tighter. While top teams have lost - McLaren quite obviously, but even Ferrari, although they seemingly seem to dominate - then the midfield teams have gained. Renault has also lost, but the pace they showed at Barcelona should be encouraging. Super Aguri's loss is self-explanatory. However, all the other teams have gained. Of course the changes aren't big and with all those 'freezing' and 'equalizing' rules (engines, tyres, eletronics) the pecking order tends to change slower than in the past. This is also why I'm sceptical about those opinions like the 2009 'revolutional' rules will create big changes. More likely well-known forces will stay in front.

[Valve Bounce]

Everyone was sliding all over the place!
Why di Kimi only run 3 laps?

Resting, lah!! Maybe he wanted to go for a shyte!!

[aryan]

The final time sheet is misleading. Ferrari was easily 0.3 to 0.4 faster than McLaren. Kimi set his fastest time half way through the session, when the track was far from optimal. Others' time showed that the track improved by about 0.4 between then and the end, but Kimi spent the rest of the session doing race simulation with heavy fuel load, confident that they are the fastest.

Hamilton and Heikki however went banzai in the final 5 minutes and yet couldn't break Kimi's time which was set 40 minutes ago.

Interesting that Nakajima was about 0.25 faster than Rosberg, and I think Quick Nick just couldn't find a good setup, whatever he did. Truli's effort was also impressive, as was DC's. Everyone else was probably where they belong.

[Tazio]

The final time sheet is misleading. Ferrari was easily 0.3 to 0.4 faster than McLaren. Kimi set his fastest time half way through the session, when the track was far from optimal. Others' time showed that the track improved by about 0.4 between then and the end, but Kimi spent the rest of the session doing race simulation with heavy fuel load, confident that they are the fastest.

Hamilton and Heikki however went banzai in the final 5 minutes and yet couldn't break Kimi's time which was set 40 minutes ago.

Interesting that Nakajima was about 0.25 faster than Rosberg, and I think Quick Nick just couldn't find a good setup, whatever he did. Truli's effort was also impressive, as was DC's. Everyone else was probably where they belong.Hamilton's fastes lap there at the end, that put him into p2 put about 6 laps worth of wear on his 'stones.

I thought DC put together one hell of a lap!

BMW, and especially Renault were very unimpressive!

[dc10]

Way to go, DC :)
Pity about Webber - what happened to send him into wall?

[aryan]

I thought DC put together one hell of a lap!



Yepp, and DC's final lap was also very impressive. His first sector was his personal best while his second sector was purple... I don't know why he couldn't hold it together in the final sector...

[veeten]

Way to go, DC :)
Pity about Webber - what happened to send him into wall?

went slightly off on that corner and got on the wet grass between the curb and runoff. Lost traction and spun into the barrier.


Yepp, and DC's final lap was also very impressive. His first sector was his personal best while his second sector was purple... I don't know why he couldn't hold it together in the final sector...

was on a low fuel strategy during that lap sequence, allowing for better time.

Since he isn't going to be on the team for next season, it's better to put out a visual resume for any prospective teams looking to change drivers.

[Bagwan]

While it may be true that we should discount DC's times as on low fuel , we should remember that it is in qualifying trim that he has had issues , so , getting comfortable with a light car isn't all just pandering to prospective employers .
He needs to get it into Q2 and 3 .

[jens]

You are too much trying to read into absolute top times. I think stint times give a clearly more accurate view:
http://fia.com/resources/documents/166430598__TUR_08_Session2_Lap_Times.pdf

Btw, Toyota didn't use all their aero updates at Barcelona, which is why they didn't seem maybe as competitive as before the European season. But Timo and Jarno seem really satisfied with the new package, so I'm hoping for a strong showing. Red Bull seems in the hands of DC quite quick over longer distance too. Hard to say about Renault. Piquet Jr's practice gives more information than Alonso's. I guess FA could go a couple of tenths faster than NP, but Renault can be at best a match to Red Bull and Toyota, when we are analyzing midfield battles. Honda and Williams are a bit behind. STR's stints are encouraging - into 1:29's. Vettel had a more competitive practice than Bourdais - wonder, how will their battle pan out in the rest of the weekend?

[woody2goody]

BMW are always slow on purpose on a Friday. Alonso was decent in both sessions it was just Piquet who was disappointing. Honda were good. I hope they do well in the race as I predicted a point for Barrichello in his 257th Grand Prix.

[Tazio]

Saturday practice just getting under way!

[ShiftingGears]

Rosberg, Alonso and Coulthard up there with Webber topping the session! A little surprising.

[Valve Bounce]

Advance Australia Fair!!

[ozrevhead]

Advance Australia Fair!!
:D

Very good so far but Im not getting too carried away! Just hope it can continue all weekend

See ya in the Chat Room

[Valve Bounce]

:D

Very good so far but Im not getting too carried away! Just hope it can continue all weekend

See ya in the Chat Room

dON'T KNOW FOR SURE - DEPENDS ON THAT Aussi Rules game tonight at the MCG. Vics vs Dream Team.

Sorry for caps. :(

[Tazio]

I wonder how many laps DC is going to run before he gets together with someone on Sunday :D

[Tazio]

dON'T KNOW FOR SURE - DEPENDS ON THAT Aussi Rules game tonight at the MCG. Vics vs Dream Team.

Sorry for caps. :( I can't make up my mind if I'm going to watch F1 or Snooker :dozey:

[Tazio]

ITV Broadcast is on!

[ozrevhead]

dON'T KNOW FOR SURE - DEPENDS ON THAT Aussi Rules game tonight at the MCG. Vics vs Dream Team.

Sorry for caps. :(
oh come on valve are you going to miss a potentential Mark Webber Pole for THAT garbage!!!!! Its a slap in the face for State of Origin Footy......I bet EJ would be spinning in his grave

[Valve Bounce]

Yeah!! guess you are right. I didn't go to the game just the same - Benny is not feeling well.

[Tazio]

oh come on valve are you going to miss a potentential Mark Webber Pole for THAT garbage!!!!! Its a slap in the face for State of Origin Footy......I bet EJ would be spinning in his grave
Yea! Get your priorities in order ;)

[ozrevhead]

Yeah!! guess you are right. I didn't go to the game just the same - Benny is not feeling well.
Poor thing :(

[Azumanga Davo]

Rosberg, Alonso and Coulthard up there with Webber topping the session! A little surprising.

That's bad news for DC in reality though. Everyone else is behind him now... ;)

[osg]

Rubbish lap from the Iceman......... i'm bitterly disappointed. I really hope he's got his raceface on tomorrow night, as he's gonna need it....

[janneppi]

Good quali for Kovalainen, unless Kimi is much heavier than Massa, it's Massas race tomorrow

[osg]

Good quali for Kovalainen, unless Kimi is much heavier than Massa, it's Massas race tomorrow

+1

[wedge]

Massa didn't look too pleased about winning pole in the press conference!

[pino]

Massa didn't look too pleased about winning pole in the press conference!

For what I've seen he was very pleased....congrats to him :up:

[Tazio]

Ferrari 1,2 tomorrow. Mac are torturing their tyres!

[THE_LIBERATOR]

Did anyone else see that quick replay of Alonso holding Raikonnen up on ITV? Was it from the Iceman's quick lap??? They never mentioned it when they came back from ads!!

[Tazio]

Did anyone else see that quick replay of Alonso holding Raikonnen up on ITV? Was it from the Iceman's quick lap??? They never mentioned it when they came back from ads!!
I'm pretty sure they were both on Hot laps. I think Kimi may have misjuged this seperation distance,
and or Fred had a bit of a moment. Either way its tough luck for Kimi! Those
kind of things can happen with the Q format the way it is!

[woody2goody]

I saw the very end of the replay. I hope Alonso doesn't get a penalty for it. If he was fighting for the championship it may be a different outcome :)

[jens]

Toyotas were flying in Q1, but failed to improve on that during the rest of quali. Glock had a problem with right front wheel, which is why he was more than a second slower in Q2. :s Problems, always problems at Toyota camp.

Again a very close qualifying. Top10 within 0,7 seconds in Q2. If I have talked about competition getting tighter between teams, then also drivers are closely matched if we look at the team-mate comparisons from qualifyings, taking into account the best time they set during the quali. Five pairings within less than a tenth.
MW 1:26.466 (Q2) - DC 1:26.520 (Q2) = 0.054
FM 1:25.994 (Q1) - KR 1:26.050 (Q2) = 0.056
RB 1:27.219 (Q2) - JB 1:27.298 (Q2) = 0.079
TG 1:26.614 (Q1) - JT 1:26.695 (Q1) = 0.081
LH 1:26.192 (Q1) - HK 1:26.290 (Q2) = 0.098
SV 1:27.412 (Q2) - SB 1:27.621 (Q1) = 0.209
RK 1:26.129 (Q2) - NH 1:26.607 (Q2) = 0.478
GF 1:27.807 (Q1) - AS 1:28.325 (Q1) = 0.518
NR 1:27.012 (Q2) - KN 1:27.547 (Q1) = 0.535
FA 1:26.522 (Q2) - NP 1:27.568 (Q1) = 1.044
The losers of the STR, Williams and Renault pairings didn't participate in Q2, so they could have bettered their time there.

Heidfeld and Button have been this season's disappointments...
Nick has been in difficult situations throughout his career, having had to prove himself all the time against strong team-mates and in average cars. Now it's the most important proving period. If he ever wants to challenge for wins and/or WDC's, he needs to be at least a match to Kubica, which he appears not to be this year. Kubica has probably a heavy fuel load - he was 2nd in Q2.

Button has got beaten by Barrichello once again in quali. This is happening too often for a driver, who pretends to be a 'top driver'.

Vettel has looked faster than Bourdais throughout the weekend, so the German is trying to regain the high reputation he has had.

[Tazio]

I saw the very end of the replay. I hope Alonso doesn't get a penalty for it. If he was fighting for the championship it may be a different outcome :) He was fighting for the pole and I'm pretty sure it was Kimi's misjudgement that caused him to not allow room for an error by Fred. If I'm not mistaken they were both on their final flying laps.I think!
Fred won't get a penalty, nor does he deserve one!

[jens]

I have decided to give some more analysis if you don't mind. :D The keyword here is once again "the competition getting tighter". It's about midfield teams. The comparison is about their best time in each Grand Prix's qualifying against the absolute best time. Here are some fluctuations as in Bahrain the loss seems to bigger, but Massa drove a perfect lap there in Q2, which was half a second quicker than anyone's. It looks like Williams has been loser during the season, but on the other hand their loss hasn't become noticably greater - there are simply more competitors between them and the top. Probably at the next Grand Prix's, which take place on specific circuits like Monaco and Montreal, the gaps will be greater. But after that back in Europe we could again see some great fight.

Red Bull
LH 1:25.187 (Q2) - DC 1:26.063 (Q2) = 0.876
KR 1:34.188 (Q2) - MW 1:34.967 (Q2) = 0.779
FM 1:31.188 (Q2) - MW 1:32.371 (Q2) = 1.183
FM 1:20.584 (Q2) - MW 1:20.984 (Q2) = 0.400
FM 1:25.994 (Q1) - MW 1:26.466 (Q2) = 0.472

Renault
LH 1:25.187 (Q2) - FA 1:26.188 (Q2) = 1.001
KR 1:34.188 (Q2) - FA 1:35.140 (Q2) = 0.952
FM 1:31.188 (Q2) - FA 1:32.345 (Q2) = 1.157
FM 1:20.584 (Q2) - FA 1:20.804 (Q2) = 0.220
FM 1:25.994 (Q1) - FA 1:26.522 (Q2) = 0.528

Toyota
LH 1:25.187 (Q2) - JT 1:26.101 (Q2) = 0.914
KR 1:34.188 (Q2) - JT 1:34.825 (Q2) = 0.637
FM 1:31.188 (Q2) - JT 1:32.159 (Q2) = 0.971
FM 1:20.584 (Q2) - JT 1:20.907 (Q2) = 0.323
FM 1:25.994 (Q1) - TG 1:26.614 (Q1) = 0.620

Honda
LH 1:25.187 (Q2) - RB 1:26.173 (Q2) = 0.986
KR 1:34.188 (Q2) - JB 1:35.208 (Q2) = 1.020
FM 1:31.188 (Q2) - JB 1:32.362 (Q2) = 1.174
FM 1:20.584 (Q2) - RB 1:21.049 (Q2) = 0.465
FM 1:25.994 (Q1) - RB 1:27.219 (Q2) = 1.225

Williams
LH 1:25.187 (Q2) - NR 1:26.059 (Q2) = 0.872
KR 1:34.188 (Q2) - NR 1:35.670 (Q2) = 1.482
FM 1:31.188 (Q2) - NR 1:32.185 (Q2) = 0.997
FM 1:20.584 (Q2) - KN 1:21.117 (Q2) = 0.533
FM 1:25.994 (Q1) - NR 1:27.012 (Q2) = 1.018

Hopefully my maths isn't too poor. :p :

[aryan]

My guess is that The Mercs are heavier than Massa, and Kimi is probably as heavy as them, if not more. Which makes tomorrow's race quite interesting. And don't rule Kubica out either.

5 potential race winners... it's gonna be interesting!

[jens]

By the way, wasn't it Massa, who was 'blocked' by Alonso? I can remember a Ferrari with a yellow camera, when the replay was shown.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67311
Räikkönen has admitted a mistake. No mention of Alonso.

[ozrevhead]

I have decided to give some more analysis if you don't mind. :D The keyword here is once again "the competition getting tighter". It's about midfield teams. The comparison is about their best time in each Grand Prix's qualifying against the absolute best time. Here are some fluctuations as in Bahrain the loss seems to bigger, but Massa drove a perfect lap there in Q2, which was half a second quicker than anyone's. It looks like Williams has been loser during the season, but on the other hand their loss hasn't become noticably greater - there are simply more competitors between them and the top. Probably at the next Grand Prix's, which take place on specific circuits like Monaco and Montreal, the gaps will be greater. But after that back in Europe we could again see some great fight.

Red Bull
LH 1:25.187 (Q2) - DC 1:26.063 (Q2) = 0.876
KR 1:34.188 (Q2) - MW 1:34.967 (Q2) = 0.779
FM 1:31.188 (Q2) - MW 1:32.371 (Q2) = 1.183
FM 1:20.584 (Q2) - MW 1:20.984 (Q2) = 0.400
FM 1:25.994 (Q1) - MW 1:26.466 (Q2) = 0.472


I still thin thats incouraging - partically the last two 'gaps'

I do think 6th is the best I can hope for - any higher would come down to luck (something that Mark never gets)

[Tazio]

By the way, wasn't it Massa, who was 'blocked' by Alonso? I can remember a Ferrari with a yellow camera, when the replay was shown.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67311
Räikkönen has admitted a mistake. No mention of Alonso.
You may be right! The reason I say that is ITV showed Massa and Fred talking right when they got out of their cars. Massa made a hand jesture like describing a pass. Maybe it was those two, and they just got their signals crossed. I don't know I'm totally speculating. If it was Massa it may hae been on out laps as opposed to Flying laps
Here's Massa's comments in regard to Q3

Felipe Massa, Ferrari (1:27.617, 1st):
In Q2, I had a bit of traffic, but in Q3 I was able to do two completely trouble free laps.”

http://www.manipef1.com/news/2008/index.php?id=1099&redirect=1

[Bagwan]

By the way, wasn't it Massa, who was 'blocked' by Alonso? I can remember a Ferrari with a yellow camera, when the replay was shown.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67311
Räikkönen has admitted a mistake. No mention of Alonso.

It was Massa who passed Alonso there , as he said in the interview afterwards .
He passed him on the outlap to get a clean track .

Nick is heavy , and will move up the order at the first stop .

[Tazio]

This comment by Luca Baldesari makes me wonder how hard Kimi is going to push for a win:
http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/163154-1/massa_shines_as_kimi_questions_fuel_loads.html

"The start will be important, as will strategy, while as ever the crucial element is reliability"

Ferrari second raced engine vs McLaren first
The race may be decided at the first corner, or fuel load. But I dont see Ferrari being significantly heavier than McLaren. It should be interesting. If they both start on the option I would guess Mclaren aren't very heavy. This is shaping up to be a very interesting race.

“We have a car that works well over a long run, especially on the softer Bridgestone tyres, and we will do our utmost to bring home as many points as possible. The start will be important, as will strategy, while as ever the crucial element is reliability.”

The last thing Ferrari wants is a DNF
Kimi may have to play for points!
I hope not. I want to see him charging! :up:

[truefan72]

The last thing Ferrari wants is a DNF
Kimi may have to play for points!
I hope not. I want to see him charging! :up:


yep, I was a bit surprised at his Q3 final lap, even though I saw him make a slight mistake on the final corner.

We will just have to wait and see about the fuel loads.

I suspect a very tight race between the 2 teams and perhpas a surprise by Alonso or Webber as well.

of course, everything changes if there is rain...where Massa hasn't showed his best moments.

[truefan72]

btw

what are the chances for rain tomorrow?

[Tazio]

btw

what are the chances for rain tomorrow?

Should be clear tonight ,mostly sunny Sunday with no predicted rain
,
http://weather.yahoo.com/forecast/TUXX0014.html

[pettersolberg29]

Heidfeld (and Button) have been this season's disappointments...
Nick has been in difficult situations throughout his career, having had to prove himself all the time against strong team-mates and in average cars. Now it's the most important proving period. If he ever wants to challenge for wins and/or WDC's, he needs to be at least a match to Kubica, which he appears not to be this year. Kubica has probably a heavy fuel load - he was 2nd in Q2.


How can you say that?

Heidfeld was second before the last race, and is only 3 points behind Kubica before Istanbul. So how is he this season's dissapointment? I'm sure he'll get about 5th this race, and hopefully quali times will improve throughout the year.

Am I the only one who thinks Heidfeld has been one of the most impressive drivers this year? Without safety-car trouble, he'd be in a strong position to lead the championship!

[poole123]

Well yet again Mark Webber did a superb job to outqualify people like alonso and heidfeld. it goes to underline what a great job webber is doing so far this season.

[jens]

How can you say that?

Heidfeld was second before the last race, and is only 3 points behind Kubica before Istanbul. So how is he this season's dissapointment? I'm sure he'll get about 5th this race, and hopefully quali times will improve throughout the year.

Am I the only one who thinks Heidfeld has been one of the most impressive drivers this year? Without safety-car trouble, he'd be in a strong position to lead the championship!

While Nick's and Robert's race paces seem similar, then in qualifying the Pole has recently been clearly quicker by several tenths. This time in Istanbul the gap was almost half a second. I have to say that I have never seen Nick struggling so much. While Rob makes times, which are about at the very top, Nick narrowly fights himself into Q3.

Surely this is disappointing considering Heidfeld's previous seasons and how impressive he has been. IMO he is a very strong candidate for the driver of the year of 2007 - quick and was definetely more consistent and errorfree than any of the four title contenders. He is still errorfree, but the speed has disappeared to somewhere. I hope Heidfeld's troubles are temporary and he together with the team can find a way, how to extract more out of the car. Like Trulli at the start of 2006, when the car wasn't to his liking and new upgrades were brought out for Monaco, which enabled him to start shining again.

Fifth tomorrow? This won't too spectacular. In Q2 Kubica showed second best time, which indicates that BMW has very good speed and can fight for a podium placing. BMW has quite obviously chosen a different strategy than Ferrari and McLaren - wonder if it pays off.

[woody2goody]

How can you say that?

Heidfeld was second before the last race, and is only 3 points behind Kubica before Istanbul. So how is he this season's dissapointment? I'm sure he'll get about 5th this race, and hopefully quali times will improve throughout the year.

Am I the only one who thinks Heidfeld has been one of the most impressive drivers this year? Without safety-car trouble, he'd be in a strong position to lead the championship!

Great post.

Nick would be right there if not for the Spain shenanigans.

He tends to be faster than Kubica in the races, but the amount of fuel he is delegated/likes to carry disadvantages him, because he has a greater chance of being behind midfield cars early on.

Nick set the fastest lap in Malaysia, and despite him being 6th to Kubica's pole position in Bahrain, he only finished 3.5 seconds behind him, thanks to a heavy car, and a late first stop which briefly saw him leading.

Nick's one problem in relation to Robert is that he doesn't seem to cane the car in qualifying like the Pole does. Kubica seems to get the most out of the car in qualifying, but Nick has a steadier, (only slightly) quicker race.

[jens]

I suspect a very tight race between the 2 teams and perhpas a surprise by Alonso or Webber as well.


I'm a bit sceptical about Renault's race pace. At Barcelona they appeared to be stronger in qualifying trim than in the race. While in quali Renault was clearly a Top4 team, then in the race at least Webber would have passed Alonso even without the Spaniard's engine failure.

So I have a little hope that maybe Trulli can beat Alonso in the race, but other direct rival called Red Bull looks extremely strong and I'm afraid in normal circumstances Webber won't be beatable tomorrow and even Coulthard might be some kind of a threat. To be honest, this is maybe the first weekend this year, when it can be noticed that Jarno is slightly struggling and wasn't happy with the setup again. Timo has been really impressive this weekend and arguably in Q2 he was on course of making even a faster lap than in Q1 until problem occured. But nevertheless even a 'struggling' JT made it into Q3, so this shows some kind of consistency.

[woody2goody]

Maybe Jarno set it up for the race and compromised his qualifying as a result.

I can see Trulli having a heavy car and finishing around where Webber ends up. Based on quali, these are my predictions:

1. Massa
2. Kovalainen
3. Raikkonen
4. Hamilton
5. Kubica
6. Heidfeld
7. Trulli
8. Webber

[ozrevhead]

Maybe Jarno set it up for the race and compromised his qualifying as a result.

I can see Trulli having a heavy car and finishing around where Webber ends up. Based on quali, these are my predictions:

1. Massa
2. Kovalainen
3. Raikkonen
4. Hamilton
5. Kubica
6. Heidfeld
7. Trulli
8. Webber

I dont think truli is heavier than Mark beause Mark has never ran light in any quali. He doesnt see the point in running light just to get a extra spot on the grid only to have to pit earlier than your rivals who are at a similar pace to you. He also went out in the last quai very late and the time he posted to be 6th was his only run of Q3.

He and DC were 1.5 to 2 seconds slower than Q1 & 2

Your selling Mark short there mate

[Valve Bounce]

Some of the drivers were complaining about the changing aspects of the track surface.

[woody2goody]

I dont think truli is heavier than Mark beause Mark has never ran light in any quali. He doesnt see the point in running light just to get a extra spot on the grid only to have to pit earlier than your rivals who are at a similar pace to you. He also went out in the last quai very late and the time he posted to be 6th was his only run of Q3.

He and DC were 1.5 to 2 seconds slower than Q1 & 2

Your selling Mark short there mate

I thought about putting him 7th, but I thought about how well Trulli has raced this year. However, you telling me that about Mark makes me realise just how brilliant he was in quali, and DC for that matter who won't be light either. Honestly I think they could be easily swapped round, they have been close all year and they will be again tomorrow I'm sure.

I don't think they can keep Nick behind them, but Heidfeld probably won't beat Kubica regardless of being heavier. This is because, if he is quicker than Jarno and Mark, he will get by them both during the race but won't be able to get any higher.

I must admit I am warming to Webber slowly. I liked him when he first started, went off him for the last couple of years, but his performances have been very solid this year no doubt about it :)

I quite like him as a person and a driver, but he's just never been amongst my favourites for some reason.

[Tazio]

Anyone watching the gp2 race?

[Norwegian Blue]

If you were then... Dogs!

[pino]

If you were then... Dogs!

Yes...crazy isn't it ? :(

[Norwegian Blue]

At least they haven't shown up again yet... Well the one of them anyways...

[wedge]

Massa looks a lot happier in the press conference today!

Me thinks he was wary of Kimi on a heavier fuel load yesterday.

[Tazio]

Kimi and FM would have finnished 1,2 if Kimi hadn't damaged his wing! Very successful race for Ferrari. Hamilton drove agreat race!

[woody2goody]

Yes...crazy isn't it ? :(

When James Allen mentioned a labrador near the end of the race I cringed because I thought it could be tempting fate lol.

[F1boat]

I am happy that Ferrari won and a bit sad that Kimi didn't pass Hamilton in the end of the race. But still, another victory for Ferrari before the very tough Monaco GP. So far, so good.

[HenryM]

B senna was doing quite well (fighting for the 5th place) but than a dog take him out of the race :(
he was nervous when came out of the car... I even heard "caralho, filha da puta!!", lol...
good race for massa and hamilton...

[VkmSpouge]

Very good race by Felipe Massa, deserving race winner. Lewis Hamilton drove well though I'm not all sure about the strategy, even if it was to ensure no tyres going bang but at least it provided some excitement. A good passing move on Massa to take the lead. Kimi Raikkonen recovered to third quite well.
Best bit of the race was Piquet v. Button v. Kovalainen v. Glock(?), great racing there!

[aryan]

Hamilton could have won this race if he had either1) puthimself on pole (difficult with hard tyre, even when lighter) or passed Massa much earlier in the first stint. By the end of everyone's stops he was about 5 seconds behind Massa. He could have overcome that if had gotten away from him earlier.

I have to give the team of the gp to McLaren though. Had they gone for a normal 2-stop strategy, they would have been behind Ferrari in quali, and as their car is so terrible on the option tyre, couldn't have really challenged the Ferraris. The 3 stop strategy and minimising their run on the softer tyre should be an option they should look into in future races as well.

Overall, definitely a very interesting and entertainig race. The best so far this season by a long shot.

[woody2goody]

B senna was doing quite well (fighting for the 5th place) but than a dog take him out of the race :(
he was nervous when came out of the car... I even heard "caralho, filha da puta!!", lol...
good race for massa and hamilton...

I'd thought he'd been punted off by someone they way he reacted, I was shocked to hear that it was a dog. On the plus side, he managed to swear on TV in two languages and get away with it :)

I'm not surprised he was nervous and jumpy, after all, he could have been killed as his team manager said. It's a shame for Senna who was going well in both races and had a rotten weekend in the end with no points.

[PSfan]

A few thoughts

Poor Doggy

Massa must be losing his edge at Turkey, Speedtv boys commented that Massa had lead every lap during the previous 2 races except during pit stop cycles... though I think Hamilton (even if on a different strategy) making an on track pass for the lead, made this win a little more special for Massa because it looked like he actually had some competition for it.

I guess Bridgestone and McLeran PR spindoctors may have a little work on their hands thanks to Hamiton's (and later RD ) comments that their 3 stop strategy was dictated by Bridgestone.

Why do I have feeling Massa won despite poor Ferrari strategy? If it was a hard choice between the two tire choices, why run the same tire compound during the first 2 stints? I think running most of the race on the soft tires cost Kimi 2nd place more then having his damaged front wing (that he was still capable of fastest lap of the race with)

Which brings me to my last first and last question in this post, what happens next year to the white stripes, (no not the band :p : ) With next year slicks coming in, do we get white walls, or now that Champcar is no more, will they go with the reds?

[aryan]

Why do I have feeling Massa won despite poor Ferrari strategy? I think running most of the race on the soft tires cost Kimi 2nd place more then having his damaged front wing

My thoughts exactly!

Running on the softer tyre was a mistake, and the fact that Ferrari won the race despite getting their strategy wrong is a testament to their car pace!

[Tazio]

My thoughts exactly!

Running on the softer tyre was a mistake, and the fact that Ferrari won the race despite getting their strategy wrong is a testament to their car pace!I think they ran the option in the first stint because they have trouble getting heat into the stones compared to the mac's, and didn't wnt to get beat to the first turn off the start! I understand that. I agree they would have been better off running prime the next two stints!

[aryan]

I think they ran the option in the first stint because they have trouble getting heat into the stones compared to the mac's, and didn't wnt to get beat to the first turn off the start! I understand that. I agree they would have been better off running prime the next two stints!

Yes, there is the heat issue that McLaren heats its tyres better than the Ferrari and so might have beaten them into the first corner if Ferrari had started on the prime. So, there was a good case for satrting on the option tyres.

The next stints, as you say, should have been prime though. And that might very well have cost Kimi the second place.

When I look at last year's final driver standings and how close they were, and also notice that had Kimi been second in this race, he would have been 11 points ahead of Lewis, not just 7, then I realise how these small decisions can have huge impacts later on in the season.

[ShiftingGears]

That race was pretty good :up: Massa was great and McLaren and Hamilton were brilliant to contend with their three stop strategy and still perform brilliantly. Kimi was solid, if unspectacular. A few more laps and he would've been in a position to pass Hamilton. Alonso and Webber again were brilliant, although I was a little surprised at Alonso backing off to let Kimi through.

[Tazio]

Alonso and Webber again were brilliant, although I was a little surprised at Alonso backing off to let Kimi through.For the last time Fred knows who he is racing!

http://f1.automoto365.com/news/controller.php?lang=en&theme=default&month=5&year=2008&nextMode=GpNewsForm&news_id=31140
Webber was disappointed not to have been able to take the fight to Renault and Fernando Alonso, the former two-times world champion beating the Australian off the line before pulling away comfortably as the race developed

I couldn’t stay with Fernando– I was expecting to do better and I’m disappointed really. Renault sh*t all over us. Of course, it’s good to get points but it’s disappointing we couldn’t take the fight to Fernando a little bit more but we weren’t quite quick enough.

Fred is the most calculating driver in show bussiness! ;)

[Hawkmoon]

It's great to see that passing is possible in F1. You just need a circuit that allows it. Bring on Monaco. Doh!

It's interesting that Peter Windsor suggested, and Hamilton confirmed, that the Ferrari has a definite advantage over the McLaren in the slow corners. This is quite a change from last season and could mean that Maranello will be much more competitive in Monaco and Canada this year. Considering the top speed advantage the Ferrari has over the rest of the field I'd say Canada could actually be a strong race for the Reds this year.

[Tazio]

It's great to see that passing is possible in F1. You just need a circuit that allows it. Bring on Monaco. Doh!

It's interesting that Peter Windsor suggested, and Hamilton confirmed, that the Ferrari has a definite advantage over the McLaren in the slow corners. This is quite a change from last season and could mean that Maranello will be much more competitive in Monaco and Canada this year. Considering the top speed advantage the Ferrari has over the rest of the field I'd say Canada could actually be a strong race for the Reds this year. :up:

[jens]

Toyota's results are getting worse and worse. :( After Jarno had dropped behind DC and Rosberg (who had heavier cars), then it was obvious that the race was lost. IMO they should have tried a 1-stop strategy with JT as he made his last stop only 10 laps before the end anyway. Toyota has brought out upgrades for the European season in two phases (Barcelona and Istanbul), but they seem not to give the effect, what was expected. Jarno has said that the main step forward with TF108 compared to TF107 is not exactly raw speed, but that it has a clearly wider setup window. But with those upgrades Toyota's handling seems to be less convenient and JT has complained about both over- and understeer. In terms of laptimes the loss hasn't become greater to the top and maybe has even closed (at a good day Toy may lose half a second a lap, which is good), but what closer you are to the top, that harder further progress comes.

It was interesting to compare Alonso's and Webber's performances. Red Bull and Renault seem to have a very similar performance. MW outqualified FA in a heavier car, but FA finished approx. 10 secs ahead in the race as neither of them was stuck in traffic.

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/2752/kimifrontmh0.jpg
That was the "damage" of Räikkönen's front wing. Strange that they didn't change it during a pitstop as it would have taken no more than 5 secs I guess. So presumably that damage had basically no effect on Kimi's laptimes.

Interesting to hear that Hamilton's driving style is too demanding (hence 3 stops) on tyres, especially through Turn 8. LH's driving style eats tyres a lot as we also know from last year's Chinese GP. Kovalainen seems to have a habit of outqualifying Hamilton in a heavier car, which is surprising considering that qualifying was one of LH's strengths last year and in the second half of the season he seemed to outqualify FA a lot. But it seems Lewis is more aggressive and adroit on the first laps, which gives him a vital advantage over Heikki. Nice battle between Timo and Heikki. HK should have made no stops after his midrace stop either.

What surprised in BMW's case, was that they didn't have a heavier car than other direct rivals, so Kubica's Q3 wasn't probably very good. However, Dr Mario seems satisfied with the results and on the next circuits BMW should be stronger. Heidfeld once again wasn't noticably slower than Kubica in race pace, but qualifying is costly...

Honda seems to be dropping backwards a bit as dumbo wings and other updates don't seem to give enough effect to participate in the midfield fight.

Once again an "awesome" drive by Piquet Jr, beating Sutil and 4-stopped Vettel. :D Der Seb is continually the unluckiest driver of the season, having got a puncture in Turn1 due to the crash of others, also in one stop the refuel rig didn't function and he had to stop again.

[woody2goody]

Toyota's results are getting worse and worse. :( After Jarno had dropped behind DC and Rosberg (who had heavier cars), then it was obvious that the race was lost. IMO they should have tried a 1-stop strategy with JT as he made his last stop only 10 laps before the end anyway. Toyota has brought out upgrades for the European season in two phases (Barcelona and Istanbul), but they seem not to give the effect, what was expected. Jarno has said that the main step forward with TF108 compared to TF107 is not exactly raw speed, but that it has a clearly wider setup window. But with those upgrades Toyota's handling seems to be less convenient and JT has complained about both over- and understeer. In terms of laptimes the loss hasn't become greater to the top and maybe has even closed (at a good day Toy may lose half a second a lap, which is good), but what closer you are to the top, that harder further progress comes.

It was interesting to compare Alonso's and Webber's performances. Red Bull and Renault seem to have a very similar performance. MW outqualified FA in a heavier car, but FA finished approx. 10 secs ahead in the race as neither of them was stuck in traffic.

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/2752/kimifrontmh0.jpg
That was the "damage" of Räikkönen's front wing. Strange that they didn't change it during a pitstop as it would have taken no more than 5 secs I guess. So presumably that damage had basically no effect on Kimi's laptimes.

Interesting to hear that Hamilton's driving style is too demanding (hence 3 stops) on tyres, especially through Turn 8. LH's driving style eats tyres a lot as we also know from last year's Chinese GP. Kovalainen seems to have a habit of outqualifying Hamilton in a heavier car, which is surprising considering that qualifying was one of LH's strengths last year and in the second half of the season he seemed to outqualify FA a lot. But it seems Lewis is more aggressive and adroit on the first laps, which gives him a vital advantage over Heikki. Nice battle between Timo and Heikki. HK should have made no stops after his midrace stop either.

What surprised in BMW's case, was that they didn't have a heavier car than other direct rivals, so Kubica's Q3 wasn't probably very good. However, Dr Mario seems satisfied with the results and on the next circuits BMW should be stronger. Heidfeld once again wasn't noticably slower than Kubica in race pace, but qualifying is costly...

Honda seems to be dropping backwards a bit as dumbo wings and other updates don't seem to give enough effect to participate in the midfield fight.

Once again an "awesome" drive by Piquet Jr, beating Sutil and 4-stopped Vettel. :D Der Seb is continually the unluckiest driver of the season, having got a puncture in Turn1 due to the crash of others, also in one stop the refuel rig didn't function and he had to stop again.

Love the bit about Piquet :)

Also Sutil got a damaged front wing after the Fisi/Nakajima accident. He drover a pretty good race not far from the midfield pace.

I think the key to the weekend was tyres. Honda were struggling with them all weekend. I don't believe they are as slow as they looked in the race.

About Toyota, both Jarno and Timo got held up badly in the race and this is why they couldn't score. Jarno by Coulthard and Timo by the Hondas who probably spoiled Piquet's race as well.

Maybe Hamilton isn't quite as good as many of us think based on his caning of the tyres. He locks his brakes all the time as well. He drove a great race, but could have won it on a two-stopper, same goes for Heikki. Annoying how the same slight contact didn't really cost Kimi anything but cost Heikki a possible victory. Monaco should be fun. I'm going for a BMW win.

1. Heidfeld
2. Hamilton
3. Kubica
4. Raikkonen
5. Kovalainen
6. Alonso
7. Massa
8. Trulli

[woody2goody]

PS was that the first on-track pass for the lead since maybe Europe last year?

[Tazio]

Well yet again Mark Webber did a superb job to outqualify people like alonso and heidfeld. it goes to underline what a great job webber is doing so far this season.
Unfortunately MW got Sh*t on!
(Marks own words) By Fred in the race :p :

[Valve Bounce]

Love the bit about Piquet :)

Also Sutil got a damaged front wing after the Fisi/Nakajima accident. He drover a pretty good race not far from the midfield pace.



It was interresting. Just after the incident, the ITV feed pickedup the following message in a German accent :"You blody fockwit!!". They didn't mention whose message they picked up.

[aryan]

Once again an "awesome" drive by Piquet Jr, beating Sutil and 4-stopped Vettel. :D

Yeah, and most interesting was when I read the drivers' comments after the race and he said he was "very satisfied with his race". :dozey:

[Ranger]

PS was that the first on-track pass for the lead since maybe Europe last year?

Discounting the starts, it was probably in China.