no suzuki @2009?

[dimviii]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67077

Suzuki's immediate future in the World Rally Championship has been questioned following rumours in the WRC service park that the Japanese firm is ready to pull the plug on the SX4 WRC at the end of the season.
Suzuki developed the SX4 WRC - their first ever World Rally Car - with a long-term future in mind. When they began the project, there was talk of the current regulations continuing until 2012. Now, however, the car will be obsolete by the end of next season.
Sources close to the Suzuki World Rally Team say the European-based outfit have hinted at a WRC withdrawal for next year, in favour of developing a new Super 2000-plus SX4 through 2009 in readiness for a world championship return in 2010.
The firm's manufacturer representative Keiichi Suzuki denied the decision had been taken, saying: "We expected to use SX4 WRC until 2012. But now the rules changes come early, for 2010. We will start to discuss the future soon, but nothing is decided."
Suzuki categorically denied rumours that the team would not start the next round in Sardinia. He did add, however, that the team might be without team principal Nobuhiro 'Monster' Tajima for a second rally in succession. Tajima missed the Jordan Rally due to illness.
There was talk, however, that Tajima's absence could be longer term following more speculation that he and Suzuki had parted company. Again, Keicchi Suzuki declined to confirm that Tajima would be present on round six.
"It depends on his schedule," is all he would add.

[gloomyDAY]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67077

Suzuki's immediate future in the World Rally Championship has been questioned following rumours in the WRC service park that the Japanese firm is ready to pull the plug on the SX4 WRC at the end of the season.
Suzuki developed the SX4 WRC - their first ever World Rally Car - with a long-term future in mind. When they began the project, there was talk of the current regulations continuing until 2012. Now, however, the car will be obsolete by the end of next season.
Sources close to the Suzuki World Rally Team say the European-based outfit have hinted at a WRC withdrawal for next year, in favour of developing a new Super 2000-plus SX4 through 2009 in readiness for a world championship return in 2010.
The firm's manufacturer representative Keiichi Suzuki denied the decision had been taken, saying: "We expected to use SX4 WRC until 2012. But now the rules changes come early, for 2010. We will start to discuss the future soon, but nothing is decided."
Suzuki categorically denied rumours that the team would not start the next round in Sardinia. He did add, however, that the team might be without team principal Nobuhiro 'Monster' Tajima for a second rally in succession. Tajima missed the Jordan Rally due to illness.
There was talk, however, that Tajima's absence could be longer term following more speculation that he and Suzuki had parted company. Again, Keicchi Suzuki declined to confirm that Tajima would be present on round six.
"It depends on his schedule," is all he would add.I wasn't surprised when I read the article yesterday. This is what happens when a new team decides to commit to the WRC and then the rules get changed like a shift in the wind. Suzuki has wasted their time and money this season, therefore, should probably put a stop to this headache and prepare for 2010.

[Nenukknak]

Suzuki would be more than right to pull out, no point in developing a car that will be obsolete in a year.

[koko0703]

Even if they decide to stay in WRC, I think their mission has changed from making a winning car in SX4 but just to get data to build on for the future. In fact, Suzuki Sports is planning to develop Swift S2000 to comply with the new WRC regulations. However Suzuki Sports and Suzuki Co. are two different operations, and it seems that Suzuki Co. (which is where money is) is starting to lose the interest in pursuing rallying as their way of promotions.

[Helstar]

Too bad... the car is totally unreliable but I think they can eventually improve shortly (success in S1600 proves it), but if they pull the plug now it means a whole lotta C4-Focus mass and nothing more to see...

[BDunnell]

I doubt that anyone from Suzuki would be talking like this about the forthcoming rule changes making the car obsolete if that car was a competitive proposition.

[F1boat]

That's why I hate when rules are changed.

[Lalo]

Unbelievable.. The car needs developement, but seems to be promising in future years. It's way too soon to say the car sucks..

Too bad for Suzu :( . I was hoping to have a new manufacturer in the championship.

[Nenukknak]

I doubt that anyone from Suzuki would be talking like this about the forthcoming rule changes making the car obsolete if that car was a competitive proposition.

No of course not, but Suzuki is realistic enough to know that their car needs a lot of development, that would be worth it if they had untill 2012 to rally and improve this car. But now timespan is too short and there is no point to develop this car from which they will never get the gains.

[Daniel]

If Suzuki have any brains they'll have an S2000 car ready ASAP to test next year in the WRC so they can hit the ground running in 2010

[Maui J.]

This is bad news. I want to know more about Tajima, he's the driving force behind Suzuki rallying. I hope he hasn't been sacked. Without him I think it's game over unfortunately.
There was some mention of a Suzuki S2000 car that was gearing up for a debut, possibility in the hands of Monster himself, at Rally NZ.

[J.Lindstroem]

So Suzuki gives up this easy? Once "monster" talked about "winning the constructors championship" at the beggining of the year everybody knew that he whould be dissapointed. and here we are now, Suzuki has scored 3 points in five events and their reliabitity still sucks like a vacuumcleaner. With this attitude of giving up so easy i don't think it will go so well for them further this year either unfortunally.

[N.O.T]

I think suzuki must be the worst team ever to set foot on the WRC....i wouldn;t mind leaving even from the next event.

[Daniel]

I think suzuki must be the worst team ever to set foot on the WRC....i wouldn;t mind leaving even from the next event.
*Cue tirades of abuse from people who just want to see a few more cars on the entry list regardless of whether they're never going to finish the rally or whether the driver is going to throw them into the scenery just about every time*

[BDunnell]

I think suzuki must be the worst team ever to set foot on the WRC....i wouldn;t mind leaving even from the next event.

I think the Citroen BX 4TC and (to a lesser extent) VW Golf G60 programmes provide quite strong opposition, to be honest.

[A.F.F.]

All heil to Golf G60. That is the rare case I have never even seen a footage from it, only photographs. :D

[Daniel]

All heil to Golf G60. That is the rare case I have never even seen a footage from it, only photographs. :D
Get him! He's a Nazi!

[dimviii]

i agree with NOT :p
it s a pitty for the drivers,but that s not a wrc level shows suzuki.
after so much testing and impossible to finish a stage without major proplems.
if there wasn t super rally i doubt if they had completed more than 100 km both cars till now :mad:

[Viking]

I think the Citroen BX 4TC and (to a lesser extent) VW Golf G60 programmes provide quite strong opposition, to be honest.

My favorite is Ford Escort RS1700T :D

[ZequeArgentina]

Suzuki still has a chance, hey have shown very little, but something with reasonable times, only when they get the cars running.
Lets give them some more credit.

Nissan case with the Sunny GTI_R was much the case of Suzuki, but Nissan was aiming to win the championshipwith a high tech car (probably too advance for the moment, with active differentials and lot of the then common electronics).

Seat also won a junior champ (F2 at that time) and when step onto WRC level did not achieve good results (and yes I remember Gardenmeister 3rd position in NZ)

[BDunnell]

My favorite is Ford Escort RS1700T :D

Ah, but at least Ford didn't try it as a WRC entry and fail! In world championship terms, the RS200 is probably nearer the mark, with its awful finishing record.

[BDunnell]

Suzuki still has a chance, hey have shown very little, but something with reasonable times, only when they get the cars running.
Lets give them some more credit.

Nissan case with the Sunny GTI_R was much the case of Suzuki, but Nissan was aiming to win the championshipwith a high tech car (probably too advance for the moment, with active differentials and lot of the then common electronics).

Seat also won a junior champ (F2 at that time) and when step onto WRC level did not achieve good results (and yes I remember Gardenmeister 3rd position in NZ)

I take the point, but Nissan team boss Dave Whittock recalls the company's top brass as only really caring about the Safari and not understanding the nature of rallying, and the Seat Cordoba wasn't a complete disaster on the level of the BX 4TC or Golf G60, and possibly the Suzuki as well. I'd put the Cordoba onto a similar level as the Skoda Fabia — not great, but not totally crap either.

[Viking]

Ah, but at least Ford didn't try it as a WRC entry and fail! In world championship terms, the RS200 is probably nearer the mark, with its awful finishing record.

Yes, dark years for Ford this. Someone wrote that Ford spent 6 years of development to do 3 wrc rallys :eek: At least RS200 was a fast and competitive car.
So Suzuki dont give up :D

[BDunnell]

Yes, dark years for Ford this. Someone wrote that Ford spent 6 years of development to do 3 wrc rallys :eek: At least RS200 was a fast and competitive car.

It was certainly reliable in the British Open Championship, taking Mark Lovell to the title despite the fact that he didn't win a single event. With Audi pulling out mid-season, Mikael Sundstrom not matching Lovell's consistency in the Peugeot, and the 6R4s regularly expiring, it was rather an unsatisfactory year.

There is in fact a direct parallel between the RS200 and the Suzuki, in that Ford knew the shortcomings of the RS200 and would have fixed them with an evolution version, but there was then no point developing it because Group B was banned. Hopefully Suzuki will follow Ford in another way and have a good car ready for the next WRC formula.

[DonJippo]

after so much testing and impossible to finish a stage without major proplems.

There has not been so much of testing before the season and this year there has been no testing sofar...heard that there is a plan to test prior NORF but remains to be seen...

[WRCfan]

It's a shame. Always good to see another manufacturer supporting WRC and when they leave, it leaves us to be showered with the footage of Loeb and the many Ford's. It's good having some variety.

No doubt everyone should agree that the more manufacturer's there are in WRC the better...always sad to see one go from the top level...

[jonkka]

If Suzuki have any brains they'll have an S2000 car ready ASAP to test next year in the WRC so they can hit the ground running in 2010

To do that, they do need experience of running a WRC team, of all events and such. So, if their plan is to abandon WRCar and switch to S2K, they still should continue running the team even if car isn't developed any longer.

What comes to developing S2000 Turbo at the moment, with technical regs in stage that they are (and likely to change at least once more before word go) might be another bottomless hole for money.

[Tom206wrc]

I have the feeling Suzuki's new S2000 won't be a success, especially regarding the level of its future contenders(207, Grande Punto, Polo, Corolla/Auris, Fabia,...) :rolleyes:

[Leon]

I remember reading sometime ago that the SX4 WRC can easily convert to an S2000 car and that the team is planing to use it for the first time in New Zealand. However after reading the autosport article I get the impression that there is no commitment from Suzuki even for a new S2000 car.

hope i´m wrong

[Sulland]

I can understand if they decide to drop the current car, and concentrate on the future S2000T if the mother company has a long term commitment. It costs too much to put money into a a car that will die soon anyway.

Be first to come with a S2000T car, and gain experience in 08/09 - before anyone else - that would give Suzuki an advantage !

[AndyRAC]

While we all welcome new entries,if you're going to enter, do it properly, i;e full backing of the Company with huge investment as well. If not, don't bother. It just makes you look ridiculous if you don't do it properly.

[kabouter]

Hopefully Suzuki will follow Ford in another way and have a good car ready for the next WRC formula.

Do you mean have one underpowered car with enough traction that does not handle properly (Sierra XR 4x4) or a slightly underpowered car with not enough traction on gravel (original Sierra Cosworth) at the start of the new formula? ;) Ford only became really competitive in 1993 with the Escort Cosworth, over 5 years into the Group A era. I doubt Suzuki bosses will have that much patience...

[BDunnell]

Do you mean have one underpowered car with enough traction that does not handle properly (Sierra XR 4x4) or a slightly underpowered car with not enough traction on gravel (original Sierra Cosworth) at the start of the new formula? ;) Ford only became really competitive in 1993 with the Escort Cosworth, over 5 years into the Group A era. I doubt Suzuki bosses will have that much patience...

I think the Sierra Cosworth was basically a good car. It wasn't perfect, but few of those early Group A cars were, except the Delta HF 4wd. The Cosworth may not have been ideal on gravel, but it was still competitive enough on the loose. It was also a damn good customer car.

[jonkka]

Group A (and B and N) era began in 1982 - even if Group A became top group only in 1987.

[kabouter]

Yes, the Sierra was a very decent car for national championships, but I doubt it was just Ford's ambition to be almost unbeatable in European national championship events on tarmac. The only win in a WRC event was on the 1988 Tour de Corse after which Ford had a few dismal years at WRC level again. Of course one might argue their choice of drivers had something to do with that. Only with the advent of Delecour they had a real star driver in their team again (note: this does not mean I consider the other Ford works drivers of the time bad drivers, just not the absolute top).


Group A (and B and N) era began in 1982 - even if Group A became top group only in 1987.
In this case I meant by Group A era the period when Group A was the dominant rally category. So I consider, loosely, 1983-1986 Group B era, 1987-1996 Group A era, 1997-now WRC era, even though groups A and N have existed all this time, and in the beginning of WRC era the car of the driver's champion was still built to Group A specs. Just a matter of definitions, not of me denying Group A existed before 1987 :) And perhaps for 1987-1989 the term Delta era would be more appropriate, now that I think about it.

[BDunnell]

Yes, the Sierra was a very decent car for national championships, but I doubt it was just Ford's ambition to be almost unbeatable in European national championship events on tarmac.

It shouldn't be forgotten that the Cosworth also got plenty of gravel wins in European domestic championship rallies, though admittedly this was at a time when very few top-line 4wd cars were available.

As for what Ford's ambitions were, I don't think any of the several manufacturers who entered works cars when Group A took over in 1987 had too many ambitions, except Lancia and, misguidedly, Mazda. The motley range of cars used, from little front-wheel-drive 180bhp hot hatches to huge 4wd 'executive' saloons provides an indication of this. Many, of course, just went with what they had - and enjoyed bits of success nonetheless.

Whether there is any comparison here with Suzuki, I don't know. It may be that the car is fundamentally flawed in some way.



In this case I meant by Group A era the period when Group A was the dominant rally category. So I consider, loosely, 1983-1986 Group B era, 1987-1996 Group A era, 1997-now WRC era, even though groups A and N have existed all this time, and in the beginning of WRC era the car of the driver's champion was still built to Group A specs. Just a matter of definitions, not of me denying Group A existed before 1987 :) And perhaps for 1987-1989 the term Delta era would be more appropriate, now that I think about it.

I consider it the Renault 11 Turbo era, personally. ;)

[Sulland]

The two eras are very different in many ways.
1 technically. the level of engineering experience and data it takes to get a top level WRCar is huge. Even the top teams can get it wrong (Subaru). I think what Suzuki has done in pure speed is pretty impressive, the reliability will come once the error in the head part of the engine is changed.
in the Sierra age it was much easier to reach the top level, but even hard at that time.

2. Electronics - a lot more of that today. back in the early Gr A days it was enough to understand mechanics. That is for sure not longer the case. The whole package need to work.

Also, Team. It takes time to build a team that has experience and knowledge to get to the top. You can buy some of it by hireing good people, but not all.

Things take time. Kronos would not be able to do what they did in 06 without Citroen Sport support !

Give them time, if they continue with current WRCar or scrap it and concentrate on S2000T !

WE need all the manufacturers we can get - go Suzuki !!!

[kabouter]

WE need all the manufacturers we can get - go Suzuki !!!

I think that's the most important thing. It would be great for the sport if Suzuki managed to turn their cars as soon as possible into one that can fight for wins. So I sincerely hope they stick with it and that they're going to be successful!

[dimviii]

@AndyRAC +1000000

the right word...''do it properly''
if they start a wrc project without enough testing it is tragedy.
i think that suzuki from the start something was wrong. ie drivers to pay for drive :confused:

i really didn t surprised from the autosports article.

ps today Loeb was in an old ss near Distomo from 7 in the morning till 9 at night doing tyres-syspension tests (it was night from 8 o clock....)

[MJW]

If, as is indicated in another thread that Citroen wont be around in WRC, it makes me wonder whether there is any point in making the "new pinacle class" S200+TURBO? Who will be around, Subaru have a suitable base car, Peugeot, FIAT, Skoda, VW, Toyota and Ford (Australia) have genuine S2000 cars, who is to say that any of these would contemplate the additional financial investment in jumping from S2000 to S2000+T? Somehow when you link the Citroen and Suzuki stories with the general dismay amongst many forumers of the current 3 stages and 2 hours in service park maybe its the IRC format, (night in SanRemo) type events that will be the appeal.

[ST205GT4]

I wouldn't count on the aussie Ford Fiesta. The whole Pirtek team is up for sale at the moment. So I don't think there will be any further development of that package.

[Sulland]

Both the street versions of the Citroen C3, Ford Fiesta and VW Polo will have a major change/upgrade in 09.

So all of them are waiting for those so they can make a rally car.

Thats one of the reasons why Citroen and Ford are not doing much that we can see for the moment. But for all we know they have their cars all worked out on their 3D computers...

[Helstar]

I think suzuki must be the worst team ever to set foot on the WRC....i wouldn;t mind leaving even from the next event.
Come on... you can see in those SS where the car didn't broke into pieces that it has good speed, surely better than Hyundai or SEAT or Skoda ...

[A.F.F.]

Come on... you can see in those SS where the car didn't broke into pieces that it has good speed, surely better than Hyundai or SEAT or Skoda ...

No way.

[urabus-denoS2000]

Its no way better than SEAT,especially Škoda...

[Helstar]

Say what ? If the car is so slow as you say, it would be humanly impossible to do these times ...

Jordan Rally

SS9
1. S. LOEB 8:18.1
2. J. LATVALA +5.1
3. M. HIRVONEN +8.0
4. D. SORDO +9.2
5. P. SOLBERG +11.2
6. G. GALLI +20.4
7. U. AAVA +20.9
8. P. ANDERSSON +23.4
9. C. ATKINSON +25.2

SS15
1. G. GALLI 11:57.8
2. J. LATVALA +2.9
3. C. ATKINSON +4.9
4. M. HIRVONEN +5.5
5. D. SORDO +7.6
6. P. ANDERSSON +11.9
7. H. SOLBERG +16.9

SS18
1. S. LOEB 7:10.1
2. G. GALLI +6.4
3. M. HIRVONEN +9.3
4. P. ANDERSSON +11.8
5. D. SORDO +12.6
6. M. WILSON +19.0
7. C. ATKINSON +20.6

[Josti]

You've convinced me. Seeing those three stage times, they are better then Skoda, Seat and Hyundai all together. :hmph:

Seriously, it's hard to compare since the SX4 only did a handfull of events, but you can't deny similarities with the teams mentioned above. However, those teams jumped into (WRC) rallying at a relative good time, whilst Suzuki isn't. Plus the competition now is much different from back then.

Anyway, best for them to take a sabatical next year and develop the S2000 version for 2010.

[A.F.F.]

Say what ? If the car is so slow as you say, it would be humanly impossible to do these times ...

Jordan Rally

SS9
1. S. LOEB 8:18.1
2. J. LATVALA +5.1
3. M. HIRVONEN +8.0
4. D. SORDO +9.2
5. P. SOLBERG +11.2
6. G. GALLI +20.4
7. U. AAVA +20.9
8. P. ANDERSSON +23.4
9. C. ATKINSON +25.2

SS15
1. G. GALLI 11:57.8
2. J. LATVALA +2.9
3. C. ATKINSON +4.9
4. M. HIRVONEN +5.5
5. D. SORDO +7.6
6. P. ANDERSSON +11.9
7. H. SOLBERG +16.9

SS18
1. S. LOEB 7:10.1
2. G. GALLI +6.4
3. M. HIRVONEN +9.3
4. P. ANDERSSON +11.8
5. D. SORDO +12.6
6. M. WILSON +19.0
7. C. ATKINSON +20.6

*sigh*

[Helstar]

You've convinced me. Seeing those three stage times, they are better then Skoda, Seat and Hyundai all together.
Took three not consecutive times of last rally on purpose, you can go see also other results if you want.
I am a fan of Suzuki since I've seen them live in Montecarlo I admit it :p

*sigh*
I get it now. It's not the car, the reason is Andersson 5x times faster than Loeb.

Ps. Go Suzuki ! Shut these bad mouths up :p

[Daniel]

Took three not consecutive times of last rally on purpose, you can go see also other results if you want.
I am a fan of Suzuki since I've seen them live in Montecarlo I admit it :p

I get it now. It's not the car, the reason is Andersson 5x times faster than Loeb.

Ps. Go Suzuki ! Shut these bad mouths up :p

You really are a fan of lost causes aren't you! :p

[Helstar]

You really are a fan of lost causes aren't you! :p
You know it's so easy to be a fan of winners, the pure passion for this sport comes mainly from these things :p

[Daniel]

You know it's so easy to be a fan of winners, the pure passion for this sport comes mainly from these things :p

Yes :p But I was a fan of Loeb back in 2002 and I thought the Xsara was going to be quick back in 2001 :) But then again I thought Duval was going to be a world champion as well :laugh:

[A.F.F.]

You know it's so easy to be a fan of winners, the pure passion for this sport comes mainly from these things :p

Exactly. Gotta love the underdogs :up:

[BDunnell]

You know it's so easy to be a fan of winners, the pure passion for this sport comes mainly from these things :p

Never have truer words been written on this forum. :up: