How fast will C4 be ..... on snow & gravel? [Archive]

FabiaFan

21st January 2007, 19:37

OK, now we know, how fast C4 WAS on tarmac - there can't be any discussion... Let's ask how fast it would be in following events and hope, that we'd see a different picture...

My guess: in the next few events Sordo will fight for places 6 - 5 - 4, maximally 3, just if somebody gets in troubles. Loeb will still fight for wins, but it will be a tight battle with Gronholm (more happy ends for the second one), with both Subarus just tenth of seconds back. Then Hirvonen. First then Sordo, sometimes even getting problems with Carlsson, Latvala ... and maybe somebody else??

harvick#1

21st January 2007, 19:49

I think it may be scary fast again. :D

miksu

21st January 2007, 19:51

well, on highspeed rallies the handling has to be perfect, and i dont think it is with C4 yet. It will be harder at least at these first rallies, but will get better with testing of course.

Helstar

21st January 2007, 20:06

Same speed of Monte = Loeb for win (fight with Bosse), Sordo from 3rd place to 8th or so, pretty much like last year.

leno

21st January 2007, 20:09

i think c4 will have some problems on the gravel. there will be fight between ford and subaru on gravel rallies

bennizw

21st January 2007, 20:13

Loeb said himself that the C4's problems lie in the slow and twisty bits of a stage, so could be interesting to see it in Norway, as the stages are extremely tight and twisty most places.

Daniel

21st January 2007, 22:14

Why do people think the people at Citroen are morons who have no idea about making a good rally car?

jens

21st January 2007, 22:22

The speed of C4 on snow and gravel? This seems to be the key issue in the race for the titles. If Loeb wins in Sweden, then probably things are about to come clear pretty early again.

Sordo might not be a top contender on gravel in the first half of the season, but in the second half, you never know... Remember Loeb in 2003 - scored 4th-6th places in the first half of the season on gravel, but in the end got two 2nd places. Dani is improving quickly and is definetely far from having said his last word in that sport.

After all, a lot depends on Subaru as well, how can they mix themselves in the battle of Citroen and Ford and from who they manage to take important points away. And maybe even Subaru itself manages to fight for the title. :p :

White Sauron

21st January 2007, 22:45

1st half of the season:

Gronholm versus Solberg for the win
Loeb versus Hirvonen versus Atkinson then

2nd half of the season:
Gronholm versus Hirvonen versus Loeb for the win
New Subaru will be crap again... sorry...

Tomski

21st January 2007, 22:50

Does anyone know how much snow testing Citroen have done?

Should be a pretty big clue to their expected speed............

Ranger

22nd January 2007, 00:06

Why do people think the people at Citroen are morons who have no idea about making a good rally car?

No one said that. It is granted that the C4 will still be very fast on snow and gravel, but how fast compared to their tarmac performance?

Personally, I think it may just be a little slower like last year's Xsara.

ST205GT4

22nd January 2007, 00:12

It might not be as well sorted as it is on tarmac, by Citroen's own admission. However, I'm sure it will be just fast enough to win anywhere!

Get ready for a repeat of last year in my opinion and enjoy the fight for the minor places.

GigiGalliNo1

22nd January 2007, 04:04

Snow, he will be fast but Ford's will be faster. Gravel, the car looks funny on gravel, during the testing. So......It will do well in half the amount of gravel rallye's this season.

Brother John

22nd January 2007, 08:28

C4 is a Xsara with a new body, that´s all!

Daniel

22nd January 2007, 09:33

No one said that. It is granted that the C4 will still be very fast on snow and gravel, but how fast compared to their tarmac performance?

Personally, I think it may just be a little slower like last year's Xsara.
You seem to forget that this Monte wasn't in fact a monte at all. A snowless and iceless Monte with the wrong tyres is not necessarily indicitive of the rest of the tarmac season.

Tomski

22nd January 2007, 09:34

C4 is a Xsara with a new body, that´s all!

So why's it taken them 3 years to develop it then? I know the french like their long lunch breaks and holidays but thats rediculous!

Brother John

22nd January 2007, 09:46

So why's it taken them 3 years to develop it then? I know the french like their long lunch breaks and holidays but thats rediculous!

It was in the News on wrc.com this weekend but they removed it after some hours! Maybe Citroën did not like It with all that detail photograph´s!

jure dvorsek

22nd January 2007, 10:43

If it is yust a pure speed needed for winning Sweden, than there is now doubt about the winner-Mr.Perfect Loeb!! The C4 showed impressive speed on dray stages of MC, so there is no problem. But still we must not forget knowledge of Markus on snow-he will be much more motivated than in MC!!
About others- Mikko will be in fight with (I hope!!!) P.Solberg and H.Solberg.
Sordo with Atko and Gardemaister,maybe even Stohl.
About new Impreza in Mexico-don't expect a big change compare to last year model in terms of speed. Maybe in combination with new tyres it will respone better, but for a win I'm not sure....

Corny

22nd January 2007, 11:31

Citroën will be fast on all surfaces, maybe even the fastest.. Citroën simply has the right, winning combination at the moment.

1LM1

22nd January 2007, 11:41

I think that Marcus is still faster than Loeb in Sweden (slightly faster but faster). So Let's check the pace of those two over there.

If the C4 is as good as the Focus or slower, Marcus should win the event with quite a big margin.
But if the margin is little, that could mean that the C4 is faster than the Focus I think.

Donney

22nd January 2007, 11:45

It should be fast but I don't expect it to be as dominant as in Montecarlo.

And let's remember that there's a always a stone waiting for a wheel to hit in a snowbank, so Sweden and Norway should bring more surprises than Monte where nothing really happened.

leno

22nd January 2007, 11:47

i hope the new impreza in mexico will be better becouse it is more interesting looking fight between 3 teams

cosmicpanda

22nd January 2007, 11:51

Why do people think the people at Citroen are morons who have no idea about making a good rally car?

What about Peugeot, producing the 307 after the 206?

miksu

22nd January 2007, 13:54

Isthmus

22nd January 2007, 14:02

What about Peugeot, producing the 307 after the 206?

Citroën is not Peugeot...they have diferent Sport departments.

Daniel

22nd January 2007, 14:43

Yup. Citroen also seem to go through a lot more development before they jump into the fray.

Nenukknak

22nd January 2007, 14:44

Like in Monte it will all come down to tyrechoice. Ford did an excellent job considering they had the wrong tyres. Would have been a different rally if both Ford and Citroen were on the same tyres.

Tom206wrc

22nd January 2007, 15:48

The real question to me for Sweden is "how fast is the 207 S2000 on snow??" :p :

White Sauron

22nd January 2007, 16:03

Finni

22nd January 2007, 16:51

As Marcus Gronholm won no stages in Monte, I think it can be the same for Loeb in Sweden. I suppose on first 7-8 stages Gro and Hirvonen will be building the lead, and then share some victories wit Solbergs and Atkinson. But I don't think Loeb will be given a chance.

These are sweet dreams. Marcus may win but if Loeb is outpaced by Hirvonen I find it quite surprising - not to mention Subaru boys. Subarus will not have any chance against Loeb (Norway could be exception though as Petter might have some extra speed there). My guess is that Grönholm is strongest in snow rallies but Loeb will give good fight. On gravel season I am bit worried for Ford and Subaru.

Citroen obviously has superior engine which give them some edge if the car is well balanced and as good in corners as Ford. And Citroen apparently is well balanced car.

N.O.T

22nd January 2007, 17:19

The C4 WRC is a 3 year old car already, the fact that we saw it just a few days ago is deceiving us, citroen didn't keep the car out of competition for no reason.....i think the car is at its peak of its development for this year....

Now how fast it will be i think its still a mystery, i don't expect it to be "slow" but i don't expect it to be that fast in order to give Loeb an advantage over Gronholm on surfaces like finland or sweden where Gronholm is the master.

Mickey T

22nd January 2007, 18:10

The C4 will be fast everywhere.

it's been in testing for more than a year.

It has had the full attention of three full-time test teams.

It has been tested with four drivers: Loeb, obviously, Bugalski, Sordo and Meeks.

It has already had 150 days of testing on snow, ice, gravel, mud and tarmac, including corners of all cambers and all angles.

it has had more money spent on it than Ford and Subaru put into their WRC campaigns combined.

I think it's fair to assume the car will be on the pace wherever it goes...

DonJippo

22nd January 2007, 19:02

It has been tested with four drivers: Loeb, obviously, Bugalski, Sordo and Meeks.

There has been more test drivers than that, being only these the car might not be ready for gravel.

Tom206wrc

22nd January 2007, 19:15

Juuso Pykälisto also tested the C4... ;)

Xsara Fan

23rd January 2007, 10:12

Citroen C4 WRC has first tests at September 2004.
There was 8 test-drivers behind the steering wheel of this car:

Loeb
Bugalski
Pykalisto
Sordo
Meeke
Sainz
McRae
Bourdon

Take a look here: http://citroensport.km.ru/c4wrc/tests.html

bennizw

23rd January 2007, 10:33

According to Loeb, they haven't tested it on snow for some time now, but I guess they will be doing so before Sweden.

FabiaFan

23rd January 2007, 10:37

Why do people think the people at Citroen are morons who have no idea about making a good rally car?
...cause they produced also the "Visa" and "BX" rallycars in the past...OK, it is quite long ago, but...they did!!!

Xsara Fan

23rd January 2007, 13:55

According to Loeb, they haven't tested it on snow for some time now, but I guess they will be doing so before Sweden.

Citroen has snow tests only in 2006 in Sweden and France.

JAM

23rd January 2007, 15:04

According to Loeb, they haven't tested it on snow for some time now, but I guess they will be doing so before Sweden.

They don't need it already. Let's wait by Sweden to see what happen there and after that we talk. I'm already laughing as did after SS1 in Monte.

FabiaFan

23rd January 2007, 21:52

Looking forward to Sweden for the comparison Carlsson/Xsara vs. Sordo/C4

Grany

23rd January 2007, 22:09

...cause they produced also the "Visa" and "BX" rallycars in the past...OK, it is quite long ago, but...they did!!!

Coming from a Skoda's fan, I find that amazing. :D
And it's dishonest (or ignorant) to make fun of the rallying career of the Visa - "Trophée" and "Mille Pistes" -...

FabiaFan

24th January 2007, 22:34

Coming from a Skoda's fan, I find that amazing. :D
And it's dishonest (or ignorant) to make fun of the rallying career of the Visa - "Trophée" and "Mille Pistes" -...
Well...uhmm...but Fabia is a very nice rallycar...at least...

(and I have to admit, that I'm not fully aware of the entire career of different Visa variations... :s I just ment the direct predecessor of BX TC4 and then BX TC4 itself))

SaxoSuper1600

24th January 2007, 22:39

It must be a verry fast and good car the C4, citroen test the car in the rallycross driven by Kenneth Hansen with more than 500 HP.

FabiaFan

28th January 2007, 14:41

So what do you think - will C4 in the hands of Sordo be slower then all of the Xsaras??? Or can he beat anybody? Stohl? Galli? I don't suppose anybody writes even Carlsson!!! :-?

Brother John

28th January 2007, 20:19

The C4 was fast in Monte Carlo! What´s the point here? Ofcourse the car will be fast on snow and gravel!

FabiaFan

28th January 2007, 22:22

The C4 was fast in Monte Carlo! What´s the point here? Ofcourse the car will be fast on snow and gravel!
This is why I asked only about the one driven by Sordo, who can be still considered as a tarmac "specialist"...