closing the pits.....why?

[SarahFan]

can someone tell me why they close the pits when a yellow comes out?

[dataman1]

can someone tell me why they close the pits when a yellow comes out?

Ken, Here's my impression based upon memory, granted, not official. Back in the 90's in CART, the team owners comprised the Board and therefore approved the rules. IMO somewhere some driver won a race because he just happened to be in a lucky spot to get into the pits immediately while others had just passed the pit opening and had to make another lap. Somebody cried at the Board meeting that was an unfair advantage so Kirk Russell wrote a rule to close the pits on ovals. Later for safety of the responding emergency staff they quit racing back to the pits and the field was frozen, no passing. Safety became a bigger factor as insurance companies applied more demands.

As the rule evolved, now we have to get a "pack up" before opening the pits, which takes laps so some could run out of fuel. Brian wrote a new rule to allow a splash and go like we saw yesterday.

I remember working in the pits at MIS when the first pit lane speed limit was used and the posted speed was 110 MPH. Race track speeds at the time had just broken 200 MPH.

[garyshell]

Any idea why the first yellow yesterday was so long? As I remember it was a spin with no contact and it seemed like an eternity before they went back to green?

Gary

[dataman1]

Any idea why the first yellow yesterday was so long? As I remember it was a spin with no contact and it seemed like an eternity before they went back to green?

Gary

Gary, This is my take. I think Bernoldi spun in turn 2, killed the engine but made no contact. Towed back to pit lane and he later continued but left the race with handling problems.

Considering that first they call for the yellow, close the pits, get the field packed up, open the pits, then check for complaints from teams of passing under the yellow or blend line violations and correlate with T & S then fix those passes if justified, then if safety is off the track they can go green again. Took 6 laps to do all that.

[nigelred5]

As dataman alluded too, many of the times it is to get timing and scoring right more than anything. We put a man on the moon 38 years ago but we still can't seem to devise a timing and scoring system that keeps everything strait. apparently the moonshot was pretty easy ;)

[indy88]

Indycar closes the pits to keep Marty Roth out, sometimes(like at Kansas) he gets in anyway.

[racer69]

They also close the pits so people don't continue at race speed back to the pits when the yellow flag comes out to not lose time. This stops them continueing to race possibly through the danger area once the yellow has been thrown

[dataman1]

As dataman alluded too, many of the times it is to get timing and scoring right more than anything. We put a man on the moon 38 years ago but we still can't seem to devise a timing and scoring system that keeps everything strait. apparently the moonshot was pretty easy ;)

As part of my responsibilities with CCWS I worked closely with T & S. The accuracy of the timing system is directly related to the number of timing lines within a track. Example: Long Beach had 16 while a big oval like Taladega has 35. I can not speak to T & S in ICS but Kansas is an ISC track so I would expect a high number of timing lines. Just because they are there doesn't mean they have to be activated. For street races, permission from the city is required before cutting the street to bury a timing line so there are fewer lines.

CCWS also had a feature called "car tracker" that used timing lines coupled with computer programming to predict car track position. This was fed to all teams so they could watch themselves and competition in virtual images. I do not believe ICS has that as it was a proprietary program. That means a higher reliance on human observers. Radio communications takes more time than a computer. This may be one of those things Cotman may try to push into the ICS.

[TioWoody]

Check the discussion on the F1 board - same topic, interesting comments.

[Komahawk]

Keep 'em open all race long, that's what I say.

[trinksuk]

All the IRL tracks have a high number of T&S lines (there are multiple timing lines in the pit lane for example, so it very easy to check for pit lane speed violations) so there is a whole bunch of data available both live and after the fact. The series has an IRIS website (Indy Racing Information System) that is used to publish and create highly detailed reports along with a lot of raw data - this is available to all series participants.
In addition all the cars carry GPS position devices that allows everyone to know where every car is at any given time it is on the race track. In fact many teams have this as a display on their timing stands.

The pits are closed so that the safety car can get the field under control safely and the correct order established (did he or she pass before or after the yellow came out...) before any chaos takes place with cars coming in / out at any given moment. The only time you can pit is for immediate repairs or a splash of fuel - not a 'full service'. If you stop for repairs, as in Bernoldi's case under yellow, you have to come back in again once the pits open.
Sometimes this works for you and other times you lose out....

[SarahFan]

Keep 'em open all race long, that's what I say.

that's where I lean...


but the racing back to the pits or S/F line is a legitimate concern....


but I have always felt track position relative to the pits in the case of a yellow is part of racing


it just sure seems like it takes along time to colloect the field, open the pits, cycle things thru, pass drivers around etc etc...

[dataman1]

Hey Trinksuk, thanks for updated info.

[nanders]

Ken, Here's my impression based upon memory, granted, not official. Back in the 90's in CART, the team owners comprised the Board and therefore approved the rules. IMO somewhere some driver won a race because he just happened to be in a lucky spot to get into the pits immediately while others had just passed the pit opening and had to make another lap. Somebody cried at the Board meeting that was an unfair advantage so Kirk Russell wrote a rule to close the pits on ovals. Later for safety of the responding emergency staff they quit racing back to the pits and the field was frozen, no passing. Safety became a bigger factor as insurance companies applied more demands.

As the rule evolved, now we have to get a "pack up" before opening the pits, which takes laps so some could run out of fuel. Brian wrote a new rule to allow a splash and go like we saw yesterday.

I remember working in the pits at MIS when the first pit lane speed limit was used and the posted speed was 110 MPH. Race track speeds at the time had just broken 200 MPH.

It started when Arie Lyendyke was driving for Vince Granatelli at Phoenix. Arie came in as soon as they threw the yellow but everyone else got caught up behind the pace car and Arie then won the race and they changed the rule right after that. Remember that orange Granatelli car?

Don't take everything I said as absolute fact but it's close. maybe it was a different driver and maybe it was Arie that was bi*chn. I'm sure Waldo will/could set the record straight.

[MAX_THRUST]

At the end of the day everyone except the leader normally benefits from a yellow flag as the field packs up behind him....I think it is easier for many casual fans to follow whats going on. Obviously racing back to the line was too dangerous, and at the end of the day if I driver is seriously hurt on track the quicker the filed is controlled the better.

Yes I agree pitts should be open all the time, but the reallity is drivers will race if they can. If they are behind the pace car they can't. Look at how drivers exit the Pitts, 50mph speed limit and they are side by side racing for the exit line.

[!!WALDO!!]

What was the Speed Limit in the pits prior to imposing an enforced limit?

Pits closing is for scoring reasons and to hopefully keep the race being a race.

In the past sometimes a driver would gain an unfair advantage based on the pits. So now under a bunch up rule then the pits must be closed until bunched up.

I bet the guy with the missing decoder ring will not get it.

Oh yes, there was no speed limit but there was no bunch up either.

(NO REFERENCE, IMPLIED OR REAL TO ANY POSTER, LIVING, DEAD, or NOT YET BORN.)

[Vegasguy]

What was the Speed Limit in the pits prior to imposing an enforced limit?

Pits closing is for scoring reasons and to hopefully keep the race being a race.

In the past sometimes a driver would gain an unfair advantage based on the pits. So now under a bunch up rule then the pits must be closed until bunched up.

I bet the guy with the missing decoder ring will not get it.



Pit lane was considered part of the racetrack and there was no limit, just after Michael got in a crash at Long beach on Pit lane they implemented a limit for safety reasons. Had nothing to do with Timing and Scoring, rather safety, and to eliminate the racing back to the pits under yellow (also Safety)

Safety First!!!

[Mark in Oshawa]

Safety is the reason. Most t and s people I know likely hate restarts more than anything. With transponders, it is pretty much idiot proof now but your manual back up (people using lap charts) have a hell of a time when everyone bunches up. That said, racing at this level has about 8 separate computers all computing what is happening. The guy in the corner with the lap chart is in case of all hell breaking loose....and that never happens......or at least, T and S hasn't told you! Naaah...just kidding, I know the CCWS/CART people I worked for at the Toronto race over the years are as good as anyone in the world, and they can score them whether the pits are closed or not. The pits being closed helps even things up behind the leader, and THAT is the only way the series can sometimes put drama back into the race at times.....

[!!WALDO!!]

Pit lane was considered part of the racetrack and there was no limit, just after Michael got in a crash at Long beach on Pit lane they implemented a limit for safety reasons. Had nothing to do with Timing and Scoring, rather safety, and to eliminate the racing back to the pits under yellow (also Safety)

Safety First!!!

So the yellow comes out as the leader is heading out of four and he ducks in at high speed and returns to the track ahead of the pace car. He is technically a lap ahead of the field. That makes it a timing and scoring issue.

Yes, safety comes first. Where was it in 1969 at Hanford, CA when Mario ran over a crewman killing him. How about John Andretti leaving the pits at Pocono and busting the car in half. Yes, it was about safety and timing and scoring as this rule was part and parcial to the transponders being put in.

Oh by the way there was no racing back to the pits in open wheel. Only thing that mattered was where you were when the caution came out. By closing the pits it put everyone on the same page and allowed for Timing and Scoring to recheck everything before restarting the race by opening the pits.

(NO REFERENCE, IMPLIED OR REAL TO ANY POSTER, LIVING, DEAD, or NOT YET BORN.)

[BenRoethig]

can someone tell me why they close the pits when a yellow comes out?

Keep everyone on a level playing field and make sure pit road is safe for both the rescue workers and teams.