How much has Renault improved?

[Valve Bounce]

We all thought that Fernando qualified on thte front row on very low fuel, but as it turned out, he wasn't all that light; maybe three laps less. Unfortunately, his engine went before we really found out where he would have finished.
There was some discussion about this on our chat forum during the race about this.

Any thoughts?

[yodasarmpit]

It's a big improvement, I can only hope continues.
This can prove to be an exciting season with hopefully Ferrari, McLaren, BMW and Renault all battling for the podium.

[wedge]

It's all swings and roundabouts.

The midfield is so tight that one or other team will come up with better solutions at every major test.

The summer will be interesting because everyone will be think of the 2009 regs.

[Valve Bounce]

It's all swings and roundabouts.

The midfield is so tight that one or other team will come up with better solutions at every major test.

The summer will be interesting because everyone will be think of the 2009 regs.

I think Q2's times showed just how much the cars were close to each other. Don't know about the Renault as it came in for a second set of tyres at some stage of quals. Can't remember when.

[Mikeall]

Renault are up there and maybe if a track suits the car more than others Alonso could win a race or two.

[CNR]

how much of it could go down to home track advantage.

[mstillhere]

We all thought that Fernando qualified on thte front row on very low fuel, but as it turned out, he wasn't all that light; maybe three laps less. Unfortunately, his engine went before we really found out where he would have finished.
There was some discussion about this on our chat forum during the race about this.

Any thoughts?

A lot although those mass dampers....hum....are they legal? Will other teams adapt them as well if deemed legal?

[Valve Bounce]

A lot although those mass dampers....hum....are they legal? Will other teams adapt them as well if deemed legal?

Do you have a link that explains these dampers? I seem to have missed this development completely, and whether it's legal or otherwise. :confused:

[mstillhere]

Do you have a link that explains these dampers? I seem to have missed this development completely, and whether it's legal or otherwise. :confused:

You know, a couple of days ago I bumped into some article talking about it. I did not see any detailed description on how they work. Only that the new dampers are not moving anymore?!?!?!?! But..I'll see if I can find it somewhere.

[Valve Bounce]

You know, a couple of days ago I bumped into some article talking about it. I did not see any detailed description on how they work. Only that the new dampers are not moving anymore?!?!?!?! But..I'll see if I can find it somewhere.

Decided to use GOOGLE, and here it is : http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/080417111341.shtml

[mstillhere]

Excellent :) :)

[markabilly]

Decided to use GOOGLE, and here it is : http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/080417111341.shtml
Does not really explain why they are legal and the others are not.

Will be intersting....wonder if that was something that came off a floppie????? :vader:

[Ranger]

how much of it could go down to home track advantage.

Considering the many hundreds of thousands of miles everyone does at Catalunya in the off-season, diddly squat!

The Renault (well... Alonso in the Renault) is now solidly in the points. Not quite at BMW pace but a damn side better than it was.

It will be interesting how Alonso does at Monaco as he's highlighted that he think he will get the best result of the season there.

[F1boat]

I think that now they are best of the rest! Alonso might win a race this year!

[Tazio]

"I'm very happy because Massa stopped only two laps later than me so the qualifying was better than we thought"

http://www.f1technical.net/news/8963

This is true Renault has picked up a little speed! They do need to finish to make it mean anything.
I thought Fred was in for a top six, before he blew!
And with HK's dramatic retirement, and Nicks penalty? well you guys know me.
I think Fred is fast. So take that for whatever you think it is worth! :p :

[F1boat]

I hope that the pace which Renault showed is not at the cost of reliability. I don't want to see Fernando retiring race after race.

[seppefan]

Renault are up there and maybe if a track suits the car more than others Alonso could win a race or two.

I just do not see it. The car was good to win the second league yesterday but not run a full race distance with Ferari, Mclaren & BMW.

[F1boat]

Seppefan, it is likely that in ideal race few - maybe only Lewis, can challenge the Ferrari drivers. But maybe if the race is unpredictable, with cautions and in a narrow track, which is tough for passing, Alonso might win a race this year. For example in Montreal or Monaco.

[ioan]

A lot although those mass dampers....hum....are they legal? Will other teams adapt them as well if deemed legal?

Other teams were using already them since the start of the season! ;)

[SGWilko]

I just do not see it. The car was good to win the second league yesterday but not run a full race distance with Ferari, Mclaren & BMW.

I think Renault wound the engine right up to get where they were yesterday, and as a result it went pop. Perhaps they are desperate to keep Fred after 2008, and wanted to give him a good run in front of his home crowd.

He retired from 5th, is that right? He may well have lost more places at this next stop, but it's all conjecture, and means nothing as he DNF'd.

[Donney]

It was the second race for that engine and bahrain is a hot weather race, so that might have been the reason.

It seems they have found something and hopefully they'll be up there providing us with some excitement in each race.

[ioan]

I think Renault wound the engine right up to get where they were yesterday, and as a result it went pop.

How can you turn up an engine that is rev limited?!
Maybe a manufacturing error, but you can't rev a limited engine.

[SGWilko]

How can you turn up an engine that is rev limited?!
Maybe a manufacturing error, but you can't rev a limited engine.

You compromise max power in an engine by trying to keep its longevity for two races.

Many things - fuelling, mapping etc can be altered to favour max power/torque at max permitted RPM's.

[Tazio]

It was the second race for that engine and bahrain is a hot weather race, so that might have been the reason.

It seems they have found something and hopefully they'll be up there providing us with some excitement in each race.
That's a good point! But the McLarens were on their second race as well.
It may be that Renault has an engine that can be competetive for only one race.
It's a tough call because they have been reliable yet slow up to this point.

[ioan]

You compromise max power in an engine by trying to keep its longevity for two races.

Many things - fuelling, mapping etc can be altered to favour max power/torque at max permitted RPM's.

You can do all that!
However they can also figure it out how much it would last in case they do it. Judging by Flav's face they were not expecting it to let go.

[Valve Bounce]

You can do all that!
However they can also figure it out how much it would last in case they do it. Judging by Flav's face they were not expecting it to let go.

I wonder why?? :eek:

[aryan]

How can you turn up an engine that is rev limited?!
Maybe a manufacturing error, but you can't rev a limited engine.

engine mapping?

Tuners can get a couple of exta tens of bhp out of an engine by just remapping it, I'm sure F1 manufacturers know how to do it only better. Engine mapping is allowed in F1 under F1 engine freeze (since it's only software) and can affect longevity, fuel consuption, torque curve... you name it.

[aryan]

You can do all that!
However they can also figure it out how much it would last in case they do it. Judging by Flav's face they were not expecting it to let go.

I don't know... I think Renault have found some speed in the recent test... but it could easily have been that Renault wanted to give Alonso something special in front of his home crowd... They might have thought it might affect his reliability but nevertheless... those making the call are human and humans are inherently optimistic.

Istnabul will show whether Renault's speed was a Baca special limited edition, or something to count on.

[Storm]

We have to be cautious and see how they go in the next race but I believe they have surely improved although it might swing with each race track.
Atleast P6-8 should be gettable each race from now on for Alonso if the car completes the race.

[jens]

Renault has definetely improved. In Q2 Alonso was just two tenths slower than the top and fourth (therefore I quite couldn't understand the talks like FA was very light - more likely only a few laps lighter as it proved).

Btw, not only Renault has improved, but looking at the times it seems all the teams have closed on the top! Trulli's Toyota was approximately 3 tenths slower in Q2, Webber's Red Bull 4 tenths. Even Honda and Williams were around half a second behind. Top10 was within 0,4 seconds in Q2. I think we have never had so tight qualifying! Of course in race conditions the gaps are bigger (while Ferrari barely has any advantage in quali, then they quite comfortably control the race), then close fight in qualifying showed by quite a lot of teams is definetely encouraging in future prospects.

[Tazio]

Just one persons opinion:
http://www.forumula1.net/2008/f1/f1-news/welcome-back-fernando/

"Encouragingly for Renault Barcelona is very much the litmus test for good design. Get it right there and you’re in good shape for the rest of the season.

The team will no doubt be boyued by the performance of not only Alonso, but Piquet too who stormed into the elite top-ten for the first time this season.

In Alonso’s own words: “It is unbelievable. It’s difficult to describe or say anything as the team did a huge effort to improve the car." "


Something to look forward to in Turkey! ;)

[Tazio]

Symonds says the French squad have gained three tenths of a second on the leading team following the introduction of several new components ahead of the Spanish Grand Prix.

Renault have endured a difficult start to the season, but a big upgrade introduced in Barcelona seemed to get them closer to Ferrari, McLaren and BMW.

There were 19 separate areas of development on car the this weekend, we got them all on and working, so we have to keep doing more of that," he said.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67031

[Tazio]

An interesting Q+A with Pat Symonds! Especially in regaurd to NP. I think this guy is due for a break out race!

Q "As you say Nelson had another short lived race after a midfield collision, but how was his weekend overall?

A "It was very nearly a perfect weekend, spoiled by one mistake, which is a great shame because on Friday, when the track conditions were poor, he dealt with the car exceptionally well. He was quick on Saturday and his qualifying time in Q2 was very impressive and right up there with Fernando’s time. So it was great to see him reach Q3, where his fuel-corrected time was still impressive and was not far behind Fernando. And let’s remember that we are comparing a rookie with a double world champion, and so to be close to Fernando is a great credit. It’s just a pity that the race was spoiled by one silly mistake, which ultimately led to the collision with Bourdais."

Q "Can the team deliver an equally strong performance in Istanbul?
A "Aerodynamic efficiency pays dividends at nearly every track, and so there is no reason to believe that we will not be in a similar position in Istanbul. I firmly believe that we are within 1% of the leading team now, which is a big improvement from where we were at the beginning of the season. But we must not be complacent because there is still a lot to do and so we will introduce further aero upgrades in time for Istanbul."


I don't know if Symonds is blowing smoke, or their alarm didn't go off untill after the Fly away races!
He's got the the same guys there(for the most part) that were there during the halcyon days of '05, and '06

As far as the engine goes I read in another article that the failier was an upper end issue
(not associated with overworking the engine for Fred's home race), identified and remedied (That is what they say)
So what do ya' awl boys think?

[F1boat]

I think that Renault might challenge again for Pole-Position and to fight for solid points.

[wedge]

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-renaults-resurgence/

[N. Jones]

Stating the obvious here but we will truly know their pace in Turkey. IF they can keep it up then I believe they have returned from the grave.

Question for you all - are their similarities between Catalunya Circuit and Istanbul Park? I can remember over the last few years some teams finding a resurgence at some tracks but faltering at others. Could this same thing be happening to Renault??

[Tazio]

Stating the obvious here but we will truly know their pace in Turkey. IF they can keep it up then I believe they have returned from the grave.

Question for you all - are their similarities between Catalunya Circuit and Istanbul Park? I can remember over the last few years some teams finding a resurgence at some tracks but faltering at others. Could this same thing be happening to Renault??

Pat Symonds think they will be strong there. Beside the fact that it's a wide Tilke Track with some unusual curves,
and more elevation change It's not that dissimilar!

Q "Can the team deliver an equally strong performance in Istanbul?
A "Aerodynamic efficiency pays dividends at nearly every track, and so there is no reason to believe that we will not be in a similar position in Istanbul. I firmly believe that we are within 1% of the leading team now, which is a big improvement from where we were at the beginning of the season. But we must not be complacent because there is still a lot to do and so we will introduce further aero upgrades in time for Istanbul."

[Tazio]

An interesting little snipet, with a large portion of speculation! ;)
http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/storypage.aspx?StoryId=117275

[Tazio]

Stating the obvious here but we will truly know their pace in Turkey. IF they can keep it up then I believe they have returned from the grave.

Question for you all - are their similarities between Catalunya Circuit and Istanbul Park? I can remember over the last few years some teams finding a resurgence at some tracks but faltering at others. Could this same thing be happening to Renault??This doesn't address your question directly, but I think it is useful information about NP

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2008/05/06/piquet-determined-to-bounce-back/

I won in Istanbul in GP2 and also took pole position and the fastest lap," he added.
"It is therefore a circuit where I have some happy memories.
So it will certainly be easier for me to attack this weekend and to get my car working well."

[Valve Bounce]

It is interesting how Jr does well in practice and quals, but falls down during the race. This reminds me a bit of the trials and issues that Taku had to deal with when he was pitted against bunsen as a team mate.

Is Jr driven by a desire to do better than Fernando, a double WDC during the races? Is that why he is making mistakes during his races? If he would just settle down and will himself to be second best to Fernando, and learn from the process this year, he might actually do better in his races and even beat Fernando in some races.

This is just an opinion.

[F1boat]

I agree with Valve.