WRC; Possible future changes...

[AndyRAC]

It seems there are changes afoot in the WRC. According to the WRC website. 'Rally boss' Morrie Chandler has said that 2 - 4 day Rallies are possible. Also that relaxing the geographical spread of some Rallies was possible, as long as they keep the current mileage. There is a current event that would be happy to go to 2 days. Sounds good to me, at last, variation. Have the F1A seen sense at last?

[COD]

I bet Finland would be happy to do 2 days. Currently sunday is almost useless there, very little SS Km's and not the amount of spectators there is Friday and saturday

[OldF]

“while others find it doesn’t let the event get to different parts of the county and they would like to do things differently.”

Maybe rally GB is back to the Kielder forest?

[Tomi]

I bet Finland would be happy to do 2 days. Currently sunday is almost useless there, very little SS Km's and not the amount of spectators there is Friday and saturday

sunday is useless everywhere, Finland could easily do 4 days, there is plenty of stages that could be used. (and the roads are drivable, not t a stone lottery)

[Elvisrally]

FIA and rally bosses must have read your post from a few weeks ago. This would be good if our round of the WRC was open to cover more of the country. Just a shame we will have to wait for every other year.

Elvis

[ste898]

WRC is a joke now so any further 'news' just makes it more laughable.......

Why dont they just use 1 stage on saturday afternoon that would do?

[AndyRAC]

FIA and rally bosses must have read your post from a few weeks ago. This would be good if our round of the WRC was open to cover more of the country. Just a shame we will have to wait for every other year.

Elvis

I'm not sure having a Rally every other year is financially viable - especially for the newer Rallies. The older more established may also have problems, What would happen to Rally GB during the year out? Will they run it? Will they run and 'old style RAC'? Depending on how it works out, some may stay permamently. Who knows whats happening with the sport.

[Tomi]

I'm not sure having a Rally every other year is financially viable - especially for the newer Rallies. The older more established may also have problems, What would happen to Rally GB during the year out? Will they run it? Will they run and 'old style RAC'? Depending on how it works out, some may stay permamently. Who knows whats happening with the sport.

There is 4 rallies who have somekind of financial problems and who want only to have the event every second year, Monte, Corsica, Germany and Sweden want to do somekind of co-work with Norway, maybe they are worried to loose the whole rally, and they have difficulties to get volunteers also.
If the rest of the rallies would remain as events that would be driven every year it would give somekind base to the sport.

[N.O.T]

I think that day 3 in the current format doesn;t serve in any way the WRC...2 days would be better with the same Kms of course....

[BDunnell]

A really concentrated two-day event can be great if there's sufficient stage mileage. The Ulster International started out as such, lasting for 24 hours and including night stages. A mixture of events like that and longer ones like a four-day Rally GB (and I mean GB, not Wales) and a four-day Monte strikes me as eminently sensible.

[OldF]

“Two day, four day, and multi-location rallies on the horizon”

Why not in some cases multi-national. IMO it could work for neighbour countries if they’re where pair in the rotating schedule. Year one start in country one, finish in the other, next year the opposite.

[Tomi]

Or why not drive 3-4 stages already on thursday evening few hours after the shakedown.

[OldF]

Or in case of NORF, a super stage near Helsinki and 2-3 SS on the way to Jyväskylä. Maybe that would attract some more people to rally.

[Daniel]

Just as long as more people doesn't mean more drunk Russians :) Of course Mr Putin is welcome because he's such a nice guy.

[GigiGalliNo1]

with the calendar being 12 rounds a year... something about it making it 24 a season would that mean the next season will start in 2009 and finish at the end of 2010? (and WRChampion will be crowned in 2010 with both years points tallied up?)

[bowler]

with the calendar being 12 rounds a year... something about it making it 24 a season would that mean the next season will start in 2009 and finish at the end of 2010? (and WRChampion will be crowned in 2010 with both years points tallied up?)

No. The champion is crowned annually from the results in that calendar year.

[OldF]

More readings

Part 1. http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=201&featureid=835&desc=Changes%20ahead%20for%20the%20WRC%20-%20Part%20one

Part 2.
http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=201&featureid=840&desc=Changes%20ahead%20for%20the%20WRC%20-%20Part%20two

I’ll put part 2 also in the “S2000 & Group N, The future of rallying?” thread.

[MikeD]

More readings

Part 1. http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=201&featureid=835&desc=Changes%20ahead%20for%20the%20WRC%20-%20Part%20one

Part 2.
http://www.wrc.com/jsp/index.jsp?lnk=201&featureid=840&desc=Changes%20ahead%20for%20the%20WRC%20-%20Part%20two

I’ll put part 2 also in the “S2000 & Group N, The future of rallying?” thread.


I can't help being really positive about this development of the WRC. I think it's so much the right direction.

[gloomyDAY]

I can't help being really positive about this development of the WRC. I think it's so much the right direction.Me too, especially the technical regulations.

1) Throw in some remote services, so spectators can see a variation of stages.
2) More night stages please! I get goose bumps just from seeing pictures.
3) Two-day endurance rallies would be cool. From dawn 'til dusk.

Peachy!

[cosmicpanda]

The danger is, of course, that organisers would go more for the 'easier' option, maybe of 2 day rallies, rather than four day rallies, and then we would have a calendar comprised exclusively of such. Perhaps the number of days each rally runs should be allocated beforehand to the organisers by the FIA, who can then plan their rally accordingly.

[BDunnell]

The danger is, of course, that organisers would go more for the 'easier' option, maybe of 2 day rallies, rather than four day rallies, and then we would have a calendar comprised exclusively of such. Perhaps the number of days each rally runs should be allocated beforehand to the organisers by the FIA, who can then plan their rally accordingly.

Very good point.

[DonJippo]

Or why not drive 3-4 stages already on thursday evening few hours after the shakedown.

This is something I remember Gardemeister proposing some time ago, drive few stages on Thursday afternoon after shakedown and then full Friday and Saturday and skip Sunday totally.

[MJW]

This is something I remember Gardemeister proposing some time ago, drive few stages on Thursday afternoon after shakedown and then full Friday and Saturday and skip Sunday totally.
This would save the teams 1 night accomodation as well. Quite significant factor when you are looking at 60 rooms @ €80 each. The teams are all in situ on a thursday night as they have been on recce tuesday / wed/ and thursday shakedown. Good point made.

[Sulland]

I think the idea was to have it more flexible, so you can have a 2 day rally and maybe also a 4 to 5 day rally. Hopefully to get away from the "sprint rally" format as all of them are today, rally should also have an element of endurance in it !
As in the good old days, where drivers had to plan, and not go flat out the whole time !

[DonJippo]

I think the idea was to have it more flexible, so you can have a 2 day rally and maybe also a 4 to 5 day rally. Hopefully to get away from the "sprint rally" format as all of them are today, rally should also have an element of endurance in it !
As in the good old days, where drivers had to plan, and not go flat out the whole time !

Within the mileage limit that is, organisers will not get free hands for competitive distance, which will be around 400km I believe.

[Sulland]

Within the mileage limit that is, organisers will not get free hands for competitive distance, which will be around 400km I believe.

That is too bad, they should allow longer rallies, to get in different aspects, and maybe different surfaces in one rally !

[gloomyDAY]

That is too bad, they should allow longer rallies, to get in different aspects, and maybe different surfaces in one rally !I wholeheartedly agree with you. Rallying should have a fair degree of endurance and I'm sure spectators would love to hop around different locations while chasing their drivers.

[Helstar]

That is too bad, they should allow longer rallies, to get in different aspects, and maybe different surfaces in one rally !
Oh no ! It will unleash Loeb's worries for the less safety !
Cut the tyres ! Oh wait, better change them in the middle of the stages (with necessary time freeze for him) ! :p

[gloomyDAY]

Oh no ! It will unleash Loeb's worries for the less safety !
Cut the tyres ! Oh wait, better change them in the middle of the stages (with necessary time freeze for him) ! :p Wow. :dozey:

I think it's time for you to get over Argentina!

Nothing happened from his complaint and it was a fair one coming from a four-time champ. I'm positive other drivers were struggling in the muddy conditions as well.

[L5->R5/CR]

Wow. :dozey:

I think it's time for you to get over Argentina!

Nothing happened from his complaint and it was a fair one coming from a four-time champ. I'm positive other drivers were struggling in the muddy conditions as well.


If you want perfect conditions or perfect information race at a circuit. That is all I am going to say...

[gloomyDAY]

If you want perfect conditions or perfect information race at a circuit. That is all I am going to say...I'm in favor of the single tire decision. I just don't think Loeb should be ridiculed for having some criticisms of Pirelli's tires. He's earned the right to voice his opinion over matters in the realm of the WRC.

Isn't this thread about the future? Enough about the past.

Have you anything to say about the new rules/regulations L5?

[koko0703]

There will be a big debate about allowing 2-day rallying. From cost stand point, the idea will be welcomed by private team, but I don't think works team won't necessarily like the idea. When 2-day rally idea came out some time ago, Citroen (or Peugeot) opposed it for not getting enough public exposure. I agree with many of you that with current format, Sunday is non-factor in terms of competition, but I think manufacturers want time for ppl to come see them in the service park for publicity. After all they probably don't like the idea of bringing lots of eqiupments for just two days of publicity.

[cosmicpanda]

This would save the teams 1 night accomodation as well. Quite significant factor when you are looking at 60 rooms @ €80 each. The teams are all in situ on a thursday night as they have been on recce tuesday / wed/ and thursday shakedown. Good point made.

Why not, in that case, have shakedown on Friday? It would more easily accomodate spectators to have the rally in the weekend rather than finishing on the Saturday.

[DonJippo]

Why not, in that case, have shakedown on Friday? It would more easily accomodate spectators to have the rally in the weekend rather than finishing on the Saturday.

I was thinking about that but finishing on Saturday evening would enable better price giving party than on Sunday ;)

[L5->R5/CR]

I'm in favor of the single tire decision. I just don't think Loeb should be ridiculed for having some criticisms of Pirelli's tires. He's earned the right to voice his opinion over matters in the realm of the WRC.

Isn't this thread about the future? Enough about the past.

Have you anything to say about the new rules/regulations L5?

I am taking the wait and see approach.

Longer endurance rallies, remote service stops, real night stages, fewer repeated stages, "new" old stages even, would all be good things from my view point. But just because the FIA will now allow these things doesn't mean rallies will do them.

Lets see what is actually implemented first...

I said last year if teams want real cost savings lets go to a 2 day rally format with long days, night stages, and some real endurance. Time will tell what will happen...

[Sulland]

But just because the FIA will now allow these things doesn't mean rallies will do them

No, but today the format is almost 100% fixed, and a lot of the teams arranging rallies that has "gone over" to IRC says that the flexibility they give them is how it should be. Not all should be dictated from FIA !

One of the results is that we might have a 6 day Monte Carlo of old format, and maybe an old format RAC rally !

[gloomyDAY]

Two-day format sounds like it could work.

Shakedown on Friday and rally long 'n' hard from Saturday until Sunday.

[bowler]

Two-day format sounds like it could work.

Shakedown on Friday and rally long 'n' hard from Saturday until Sunday.

It is supposed to be a World Championship event.

To save money it could be run over 4 hours using PS3 consoles, but to be a World event it needs to be more than a club rally. Two days is not enough, and nor is 400km.

[BDunnell]

It is supposed to be a World Championship event.

To save money it could be run over 4 hours using PS3 consoles, but to be a World event it needs to be more than a club rally. Two days is not enough, and nor is 400km.

I don't necessarily agree. As I said earlier, I think a really concentrated sprint with a lot of stages packed into a short time, and including night stages, is a good formula, so long as it's mixed with longer events of the 'old' type. The Ulster International that used to last for 24 hours wasn't any less of an international rally than the longer British Open Championship events.

[L5->R5/CR]

It is supposed to be a World Championship event.

To save money it could be run over 4 hours using PS3 consoles, but to be a World event it needs to be more than a club rally. Two days is not enough, and nor is 400km.

I know this isn't what you meant but...

Would you then prefer 4 days of 125 km per day for an event?

Personally, I'd think a 3 day 550km event would be perfect!

But given that that isn't likely to happen, I'd settle for a 2 day 400km event...

[Brother John]

I like the 3 days option. 3-4 stages already on thursday afther few hours after the shakedown. Finishing on the Saturday and have a party. :s mokin:
Then I can travel quietly back home. ;)

[AndyRAC]

I don't necessarily agree. As I said earlier, I think a really concentrated sprint with a lot of stages packed into a short time, and including night stages, is a good formula, so long as it's mixed with longer events of the 'old' type. The Ulster International that used to last for 24 hours wasn't any less of an international rally than the longer British Open Championship events.

This is what I'd like to see, VARIETY!!
Some events short, sharp, intense - up to maybe 10 stages each day, e;g an early start - late finish on the first day, then a slightly shorter second day. Yeah, I'll welcome that. But also, some Rallies need to be drawn out, e;g Monte, RAC(GB). My only concern is that organisers will try and go the easy route and have 2 day events.

[OldF]

Two days, three days four days. IMO it doesn’t matter for how many days a rally last, let’s have spectacular rallies. I agree with you AndyRAC that it’s the variety that counts. Every rally should have it’s own nature and there isn’t a single format that would please every one.

[A.F.F.]

I don't necessarily agree. As I said earlier, I think a really concentrated sprint with a lot of stages packed into a short time, and including night stages, is a good formula, so long as it's mixed with longer events of the 'old' type. The Ulster International that used to last for 24 hours wasn't any less of an international rally than the longer British Open Championship events.

Two days of rallying and calling it endurance? IMO it really doesn't matter how many kms they drive, 24 hrs is 24 hrs put it any way you like.

However, should the days be longer, hence including REAL nightstages just gets me in to goose bumps :up: Not necessarily serve the TV viewers but those following live on stages, it's frigging awesome :D

[BDunnell]

Two days of rallying and calling it endurance? IMO it really doesn't matter how many kms they drive, 24 hrs is 24 hrs put it any way you like.

I didn't call it endurance, or even suggest that it was. However, I still think 24 hours of competition constitutes a legitimate international rally, so long as not all events are like that.

[A.F.F.]

I didn't call it endurance, or even suggest that it was. However, I still think 24 hours of competition constitutes a legitimate international rally, so long as not all events are like that.

And I think Bruce Willis' Return of the Bruno was a good album but can't get majority to agree with me.

Sorry, no offence at all but you just made a scary thought. A vision of FIA giving too much liberty for variety for rallying and soon we'll have that earlier mentioned race-track rally driven on prime time, lasting for what, two hours. :erm: I hope rallies have similar formula to them, starting right from the point they last the same, timewise. Then again, maybe I'm too conservative.

[BDunnell]

Sorry, no offence at all but you just made a scary thought. A vision of FIA giving too much liberty for variety for rallying and soon we'll have that earlier mentioned race-track rally driven on prime time, lasting for what, two hours. :erm: I hope rallies have similar formula to them, starting right from the point they last the same, timewise. Then again, maybe I'm too conservative.

I understand, and agree to an extent — there would have to be safeguards to ensure some longer events in order to satisfy me — but there are old precedents in excellent championships for short, concentrated events.

[A.F.F.]

I understand, and agree to an extent — there would have to be safeguards to ensure some longer events in order to satisfy me — but there are old precedents in excellent championships for short, concentrated events.

Funny thought just hit me. Normally, one would think fast gravel rallies like Finland, GB, New Zealand could suit perfectly to shorter period rally. And slower twisty and rought rallies like Acropolis, Cyprus and Turkey for satisfying the endurance element of rallying.

What if this idea would be turned upside down. Slow, twisty and rough rallies would be two day sprints where you REALLY have to hurry slow in order not to break the car and these super fast gravel rallies would last for four days when drivers would have to keep their consentration on supernatural level all the time with flat on ??? Throw in some night stages and voila...

[BDunnell]

Funny thought just hit me. Normally, one would think fast gravel rallies like Finland, GB, New Zealand could suit perfectly to shorter period rally. And slower twisty and rought rallies like Acropolis, Cyprus and Turkey for satisfying the endurance element of rallying.

What if this idea would be turned upside down. Slow, twisty and rough rallies would be two day sprints where you REALLY have to hurry slow in order not to break the car and these super fast gravel rallies would last for four days when drivers would have to keep their consentration on supernatural level all the time with flat on ??? Throw in some night stages and voila...

Could be, but I think the flat-out sprint is better suited to a shorter event. And I wouldn't class Rally GB (if I must call it that ;) ) as a fast gravel rally...

[DonJippo]

This year going to be last NORF with Sunday stages.

[Brother John]

Is this how rally would have be?
Modern rally is like this: present rally drivers now drive between 8am and 5pm the same stages two times with a long lunch break and then go to a luxuriously hotel because they have been then exhausted. :rolleyes:
Let them drive from 6am till 10pm on several stages in one day and go back the next day at the same stages in the other direction!
IMO this looks like real rally! :s mokin:

[Roy]

Is this how rally would have be?
Modern rally is like this: present rally drivers now drive between 8am and 5pm the same stages two times with a long lunch break and then go to a luxuriously hotel because they have been then exhausted. :rolleyes:
Let them drive from 6am till 10pm on several stages in one day and go back the next day at the same stages in the other direction!
IMO this looks like real rally! :s mokin:

Who pays the petrol, the tyres, the road blocks, the drivers, the team members, the police, fire and other security? Who pays?

[DonJippo]

Let them drive from 6am till 10pm on several stages in one day

That's about how NORF is going to be in the future.

[Daniel]

That's about how NORF is going to be in the future.
So by 6pm all the drunks are asleep and you're free to watch the rally for 4 hours without dealing with the idiots? :cheese:

[gloomyDAY]

So by 6pm all the drunks are asleep and you're free to watch the rally for 4 hours without dealing with the idiots? :cheese: LOL!

What if rallies are organized as in Jordan? 3-day rally with the last day having the longest distance.

[grugsticles]

LOL!

What if rallies are organized as in Jordan? 3-day rally with the last day having the longest distance.

I dunno if thats a great idea. Im thinking the greatest distance should be the middle day (Saturday) as that allows sufficiant time for after rally events like a super special stage, podium presentations, interviews with the media etc. not to mention allowing time for the team to pack up and get moving to the next event/home.


IMO, events should have a couple of formats to choose from.

Format A: 4 day event
Day 1 thursday night opening ceremony as well as a super special stage in a stadium or a couple of night stages
Day 2 and 3 are your normal 9am to 5pm style with say between 6 to 8 stages
Day 4 starts with an early start (night/dawn stage for a bit of variety) and had 4 stages finishing mid afternoon

Format B: 3 day event
All days start early (dawn) and finish late with a super special (ie. 9pm for good variety of night stages), excepting the final day which finishes mid afternoon.


Just my 2cents

[gloomyDAY]

^^^ You missed one other format.

2-day rallies.
Thursday: Shakedown
Friday: Start around noon and finish with some night stages.
Saturday: Open things early in the morning with night stages and end in the early afternoon.

That will keep everyone entertained and on their toes!

[Ranger]

^^^ You missed one other format.

2-day rallies.
Thursday: Shakedown
Friday: Start around noon and finish with some night stages.
Saturday: Open things early in the morning with night stages and end in the early afternoon.

That will keep everyone entertained and on their toes!

I agree with all that, but move it all 1 day back. Friday should be shakedown with SSS's on the Saturday and Sunday. Same amount of competitive kilometres as a 3-day event.

[AndyRAC]

What format for Monte and Rally GB??

[grugsticles]

^^^ You missed one other format.

2-day rallies.
Thursday: Shakedown
Friday: Start around noon and finish with some night stages.
Saturday: Open things early in the morning with night stages and end in the early afternoon.

That will keep everyone entertained and on their toes!
Hmm, I guess but Im not a fan on 2 day rally's. They just seem to.... short.


As fore what format for Monte and Wales:

I think that Monte should be how it was this year. Night stages to start on Thurs, but also a night stage on Friday and Saturday.
To be honest, I didnt mind the Super Special Stage on the F1 circuit to finish the rally.

As for Wales, it should be more of an endurance event but with a couple of spectator oriented stages for good measure.
Gb should have shakedown on Thursday morning, and have a night stage on the Thursday night.
I like the stage that has the big open area where the cars can bee see for about 2 km of the stage. I think its Cardiff? That should finish the day on Friday and Saturday IMO.
If the weather is to dark, a couple of light towers should be brought in - not to make it brighter than the sun, but just to add atmosphere. Perhaps even coloured lighting in patches - make something different for the TV audience.

I forget what its called, but a few years ago they had a stage telecast live on TV where McRae in a Citroen was in 4th, got a puncture, had to change it and lost the place. Great stage for live TV viewing IMO and should be used to finish the event on Sunday.

If the event had the greatest competitive distance of the year, say 450km, it would make for a great finale to the season.

[Daniel]

Hmm, I guess but Im not a fan on 2 day rally's. They just seem to.... short.


As fore what format for Monte and Wales:

I think that Monte should be how it was this year. Night stages to start on Thurs, but also a night stage on Friday and Saturday.
To be honest, I didnt mind the Super Special Stage on the F1 circuit to finish the rally.

As for Wales, it should be more of an endurance event but with a couple of spectator oriented stages for good measure.
Gb should have shakedown on Thursday morning, and have a night stage on the Thursday night.
I like the stage that has the big open area where the cars can bee see for about 2 km of the stage. I think its Cardiff? That should finish the day on Friday and Saturday IMO.
If the weather is to dark, a couple of light towers should be brought in - not to make it brighter than the sun, but just to add atmosphere. Perhaps even coloured lighting in patches - make something different for the TV audience.

I forget what its called, but a few years ago they had a stage telecast live on TV where McRae in a Citroen was in 4th, got a puncture, had to change it and lost the place. Great stage for live TV viewing IMO and should be used to finish the event on Sunday.

If the event had the greatest competitive distance of the year, say 450km, it would make for a great finale to the season.
The thing with Rally GB is that it needs to come further up into Mid Wales and up into North Wales if possible. If only so I have less distance to drive. No way I'm going to Rally GB if the stages stay as they did last year.

[AndyRAC]

The thing with Rally GB is that it needs to come further up into Mid Wales and up into North Wales if possible. If only so I have less distance to drive. No way I'm going to Rally GB if the stages stay as they did last year.

There were rumours about it coming up to Mid Wales - including Sweetlamb, Hafren, i;e the old classic stages. Has gone quiet recently though, maybe they've decided against it, too much hassle, it's far easier to stay with what they know. Hope I'm wrong, the event needs a boost - it's become stale and samey.

[Daniel]

There were rumours about it coming up to Mid Wales - including Sweetlamb, Hafren, i;e the old classic stages. Has gone quiet recently though, maybe they've decided against it, too much hassle, it's far easier to stay with what they know. Hope I'm wrong, the event needs a boost - it's become stale and samey.
Well I doubt we'll see them coming up as far as Clocaenog if that be the case :p

[AndyRAC]

Well I doubt we'll see them coming up as far as Clocaenog if that be the case :p

Unless it was based in Chester!!

Isn't the contract with Cardiff up next year? However I would imagine they'll keep it, for the good of the sport/ event it needs to go somewere else.

[Daniel]

Unless it was based in Chester!!

Isn't the contract with Cardiff up next year? However I would imagine they'll keep it, for the good of the sport/ event it needs to go somewere else.
If it came back to Chester that would be a dream....

I live about 30 minutes from Chester and about the same from the old stages they used to use :)

[BDunnell]

Ideally, a three-day event with one day in Wales, one day in Kielder and the Border Country and one day in the North Yorkshire forests would be the format. We can but dream...