Ferrari Lollipop Man Gone!

[Stuartf12007]

I have'nt seen anyone mention this on the forum, as yet, but at the last grandprix, ferrari adopted a traffic light system instead of the regular lollipop man, this was suspended just above the car.

did you see this?

I can see this being adopted by every team in the pits and eventually being mandatory.


whats your opinion?

[ioan]

It's been some time already.
hey decided to eliminate the human error factor after they saw some other teams trying to pull their fuel pumps using the F1 race cars!

[PSfan]

You know, I'm thinking Ferrari's "Mirror" lollypop maybe be safer then the lights... At least the driver can see when the fuel hose is out... Guy hitting the "green" light can still screw up...

[GP-M3]

Kimi got stuck in the pits for 2 extra seconds on his first stop, just sitting there due to a brief problem with those lights.

They are suppose to be synced with the remove of the fuel rig, but to be honest, I closely watched when the fuel rig was removed, and none of the exits looked particularly quick or syncronized with that event... the lolipop man seemed actually quicker.

In fact, it totally goofed up Steve Matchett who is part of the commentary for Speed TV. He thought Kimi was stationary for a long time and thus took on a bunch of fuel, but he actually was just sitting there and in very careful review of the tape, (a crewman blocked the camera shot just then) you can see the fuel rig came out and he was just sitting. Then Steve estimate Kimi had perhaps 5 laps more fuel on the second stint than Massa, but that wasn't the case at all. So, hopefully they will get them sorted out for the next race, or go back to a lolipop man.



I have'nt seen anyone mention this on the forum, as yet, but at the last grandprix, ferrari adopted a traffic light system instead of the regular lollipop man, this was suspended just above the car.

did you see this?

I can see this being adopted by every team in the pits and eventually being mandatory.


whats your opinion?

[Rollo]

If they installed a press switch in the fuel nozzle itself, that activated the light after it was removed. then human error is entirely quashed.

Increasing the safety of the sport is a good thing.

[Ranger]

If they installed a press switch in the fuel nozzle itself, that activated the light after it was removed. then human error is entirely quashed.

Increasing the safety of the sport is a good thing.

But if that was the case, then it won't account for pit-lane traffic. Not that many people have been penalised for that in the recent past.

[maxu05]

Don't worry too much, the former Ferrari lollipop man has found a new employer at a school crossing in Aberdeen :D

[wmcot]

Don't worry too much, the former Ferrari lollipop man has found a new employer at a school crossing in Aberdeen :D

Good one! ;)

[Valve Bounce]

Be funny if there is a failure of the light for whatever reason. But yeah!! the lollipop man getting run over or the driver departing before the fuel nozzle is disengaged is very dangerous. Is there any electronic system to prevent this? without actually actuating the accelerator and engaging the clutch. I mean the guy is prevented from moving forward electronically, and can only engage forward motion after the electronic stop is switched off by the chief mechanic.

[TMorel]

The pump goes in, there's something wrong, they take it out to look at it and try again. The fuel starts pumping. When finished they come to take the pump out but it gets half way and is then stuck, so they push it back in and wiggle it around before it finally comes out.

In that situation, any mechanical switch/sensor on the fuel rig to tell the lights to go green would be having a fit. It'd be flashing so much that Kimi will think he's back in one of his cheesey nightclubs again.

Also, anyone any idea of the ratio of lolipop vs wheelgun vs refueler that gets knocked over when a driver pulls away too soon?

[ioan]

Also, anyone any idea of the ratio of lolipop vs wheelgun vs refueler that gets knocked over when a driver pulls away too soon?

It's usually the refueler, than the lollipop man. Never saw a wheel gun mechanic being ran over.

[Viktory]

well, pretty much everyone got hit by Nakajima in Brazil last year.

[maximilian]

Seems like technology overkill that just drives up costs even more, and doesn't seem to be a real improvement, especially if some one still has to press the button manually to account for traffic... which they do. So it brings nothing, just added cost.

A simple solution would be to ban refueling :D

Off-topic here, but I meant to ask this for a while... WHY is the first pit stall considered to be advantageous as opposed to the last one? I mean, every one goes the same length, and every one has to look out for traffic... so why are the first ones in any way "better"?

[ioan]

Off-topic here, but I meant to ask this for a while... WHY is the first pit stall considered to be advantageous as opposed to the last one? I mean, every one goes the same length, and every one has to look out for traffic... so why are the first ones in any way "better"?

There is no difference from that POV. The difference is that the Constructors World Champions get the pit boxes where they have more place for their stuff, and the last team has to take the ones at the opposed end, where, in the older paddocks, less place is available.

[PSfan]

I still think that Ferrari had the best idea with the curved mirror on the lollipop giving the driver a good view behind and in front during pitstops... An extra set of eyes to catch a possible problem can't hurt, though I think he would still instictively go when the lolly is lifted, guesss there is no eliminating human error unless you eliminate pit stops all together...


It's usually the refueler, than the lollipop man. Never saw a wheel gun mechanic being ran over.

Funny you should mention that, I know its a little off topic, but while surfing on youtube I did watch a tire changer in CART get run over by one of them Andretti fellows... looked like it hurt... (in that case, the driver ignored the lollipop so wouldn't have made a difference :p : )

[Osella]

Off-topic here, but I meant to ask this for a while... WHY is the first pit stall considered to be advantageous as opposed to the last one? I mean, every one goes the same length, and every one has to look out for traffic... so why are the first ones in any way "better"?

Simple, you go in straight, stop, then pull away and left, then right.

Otherwise, you have to slow, turn right, turn left, stop, pull away and left, then turn right.

It's a lot easier and less distracting to pull into the first box, and quicker and easier to stop when you're travelling in a straight line.

[SteveA]

Why not put a line of cones (with a penalty for hitting them) before the first pit box, and after the last one, so that there is no advantage to having either?

[Tazio]

Why not put a line of cones (with a penalty for hitting them) before the first pit box, and after the last one, so that there is no advantage to having either?That would mean the driver might not be able to avoid a piece of debris on the way in.
The rules for pit entry are fine the way they are!

[SteveA]

So one team are allowed to avoid the debris, but the others aren't... ?

[Tazio]

So one team are allowed to avoid the debris, but the others aren't... ?I'm not saying that at all! You can take evasive maneuvers going into any pit. Have you ever seen some of Sato's entries? There is a beginning, and an end to the pit lane, and pit stalls in-between. The only time there is any advantage is if there is a safety car and everyone pits at once. Otherwise you are allowed plenty of room to enter your pit. Look at it this way the first pit position has to be aware that every car entering the pit lane will pass you That means you have the most cars to avoid while exiting!

[Big Ben]

If they installed a press switch in the fuel nozzle itself, that activated the light after it was removed. then human error is entirely quashed.

Increasing the safety of the sport is a good thing.

so doesn´t this mean that it´s actually the guy with the hose who decides when the car can leave? and if this is the case then what happens when the mechanics are working at the car and it requires more time than the refueling? the hose man should wait for them to finish their work? then he´s the one deciding when the car can leave... I don´t thing he has the best position to decide this.

so how does it work? if it´s just a man pushing the button I don´t see where the improvement is.

[SGWilko]

so doesn´t this mean that it´s actually the guy with the hose who decides when the car can leave? and if this is the case then what happens when the mechanics are working at the car and it requires more time than the refueling? the hose man should wait for them to finish their work? then he´s the one deciding when the car can leave... I don´t thing he has the best position to decide this.

so how does it work? if it´s just a man pushing the button I don´t see where the improvement is.

Ferrari have a glut of light bulbs, and need an excuse to use 'em up? ;)

[tinchote]

Ferrari have a glut of light bulbs, and need an excuse to use 'em up? ;)


:laugh:

[SGWilko]

Don't worry too much, the former Ferrari lollipop man has found a new employer at a school crossing in Aberdeen :D

Perhaps he's auditioning for a remake of Kojak? ;)

And can you imagine if Renault employed this, at the expense of a workers job? You know how the French love to strike (it's second to garlic so I hear ;) ), if it did happen, the unions would jump on it!!! :D

[wedge]

Appears to be a flawed system of conducting a pitstop:


It (the traffic light system) usually works very well, but there have been a couple of instances (Massa in Bahrain and Spain and Raikkonen in Turkey) when the drivers have been slow out of the box.

While the delay in Turkey was deliberate to avoid hitting Nick Heidfeld’s incoming BMW, it appears there is a flaw in the system.

This is how it works. Three things need to be finished before the car can go. The front jack has to be removed (with confirmation that the front wheels are on securely) the rear jack has to be removed (same with the rear wheels) and the fuel system needs to have finished fuelling and been disconnected from the car.

The mechanics in charge of these three stages all have a button that they press when they are finished. Only then does the green light go on for the driver to leave the box.

The flaw is that there are two more human elements in the system than just a lollipop. If a mechanic is late in pressing his button, or forgets to do it, the car will just sit there waiting for a green light.

It is a bit complicated, and even when it works, is only as quick as BMW’s system, using the old lollipop, that has been tested as being the fastest pitstop outfit in the pit lane.

http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=Ted_Kravitz&id=42647