Should Ducati replace Marco now, and if so, with who? [merged] [Archive]

fatman

12th April 2008, 17:05

I can't think of any good reason to replace Marco. It would be pretty short sighted to look at the situation and assume that Marco is to blame.

Look at his track record. 2 x 250cc world champion, 2 x MotoGP Runner Up, great reputation as a hard-as-nails rider. No one can call Marco slow. Marco is also not the first qualified rider to have problems with the Ducati.

If Marco's season so far tells any story, it shows how unique a character Casey Stoner is and how it's not 20% bike and 80% rider. If anything it's 50/50. If you really want to excel you need your bike and rider to gel with each other. If something is not gelling you can't put all the ownes on the rider to make all the changes. Both the rider AND the bike need to make adjustments so they can work together.

The challenge of all manufacturers is to build a bike which can easily be adjusted to suit the difference in riding styles amongst multiple riders. I think Honda and Yamaha are the best at doing this.

Ducati's challenge is not to find another Casey Stoner. Their challenge is to make a bike that people besides Casey can be competitive on.

MrJan

14th April 2008, 12:05

Yes.

Who with? That I can't answer but there have got to be people out there that can ride the bike better than Melandri.

Ryan, might not all be Marco's fault (he has been great in recent years) but he is just not in the running and struggling down with the customer bikes. At least Capirossi had a few good rides on the thing. And as the BBC commentary were saying thess bikes are almost bespoke in termsof the alterations you can make so there really shouldn't be any excuse for being as slow as he has been.

ChrisS

14th April 2008, 18:09

Replaced by who? I dont think there is a rider better than Marco available, and if there was I'm not sure he would want to ride that Ducati

Even Stoner is not as confident on the bike as he used to.

Ducati admitted they need to change their bike to better suit Marco but its not an overnight thing especially for Ducati that does not have the resources to bring developments forward as fast as the Japansese (Capirossi said that
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66285 )

patnicholls

14th April 2008, 20:24

No, they shouldn't replace him, imho - three races is much too short, he needs to be given time to gel with the bike if possible. At the end of the season, if things haven't changed by then then there should be a change. He did of course finish 2nd in the championship in 2005 and 2006 on Gresini's Honda, after a slow start to his MotoGP career at Yamaha.

And the other point already made is "who would they replace him with?" Niccolo Canepa's the test rider but probably some way off being ready for MotoGP (he was Superstock 1000 champ last year, so is just finding his feet as a tester anyway too).

Roby44

14th April 2008, 21:55

There is only 1 person who could tame that Ducati!!

TROY BAYLISS ;)

** Now the discussion will start!! LOL..

leopard

15th April 2008, 03:40

Answer = NO!

Should Kawasaki sack Westy?

Probably, because they want Rossi ;)

Roby44

15th April 2008, 10:56

They reckon that they haven't appproached Valentino and its just some Italian journo making up stories.

NinjaMaster

15th April 2008, 15:28

Pretty sure they said they were keen to have a crack at Vale, they just haven't approached him yet. If that fell through then Dovizioso is their next target along with Bautista.

patnicholls

15th April 2008, 23:03

Polite reminder: all Westy posts in the Westy thread please :p

It's quite a popular one, so will often be near the top of the forum... :)

JETFX...

19th April 2008, 10:05

If it was as simple as wanting good race results Ducati would have been running Troy on the #2 factory machine..... but its all about marketability nowadays so they need their Italian quota!

Maybe they should consider running a third factory bike with another non italian rider to aid development. I wonder how McCoy would go on the GP8 :s pin:

MrJan

19th April 2008, 11:19

The Italians will love Italian manufacturers no matter or is the rider. Ferrari hardly have a lack of support in F1 and I can't remember the last time an Italian drove for them (because I can't really bothered to try).

I also reckon that someone like Bayliss would be a hit with anyone as long as he's doing well :)

Roby44

19th April 2008, 11:58

Ducati has already had a crack at it with Troy in MotoGP and they gave him the flick!!

But I still reckon he could do much better then KC on that bike..

NinjaMaster

20th April 2008, 12:15

Ducati has already had a crack at it with Troy in MotoGP and they gave him the flick!!

But I still reckon he could do much better then KC on that bike..
And they did so incorrectly in my opinion. He would have been much better than Checa or Gibernau on the 990 I think but I don't think he would be really suited to the new 800 like Stoner.
And Roby, you can't do better than the best. :up:

Roby44

20th April 2008, 22:06

And they did so incorrectly in my opinion. He would have been much better than Checa or Gibernau on the 990 I think but I don't think he would be really suited to the new 800 like Stoner.
And Roby, you can't do better than the best. :up:

Troy is The Best!! ;)

You wouldn't have been refering to that "other" rider as The Best would you!!! :eek:

NinjaMaster

21st April 2008, 10:14

Troy is a gun but Stoner is better (now).

leopard

21st April 2008, 11:06

probably (last year). ;)

Roby44

21st April 2008, 11:09

Troy is a gun but Stoner is better (now).

Was..thats the word you are looking for!! ;)

NinjaMaster

21st April 2008, 13:19

Was..thats the word you are looking for!! ;)
No, I found all the words I needed to find. :up:

And speaking of Bayliss, he and Biaggi may get a test of the current MotoGP bike to see if they can help Marco out. It will be interesting to see what they think and how they go (if they get a go) given that all the riders are having problems with the current Duc but Marco especially.

JETFX...

22nd April 2008, 04:16

Replace Marco? with who....... :rolleyes:
In a perfect world I could see Mr Squiggle could be right at hope on the current GP8. ;)

leopard

22nd April 2008, 09:38

He ruled out any speculation of returning back to motogp, but rather if the opportunity came for him to do the test he would be happy to see it is positive for Melandri.
Giving someone offer of help are deemed generosity. :)

jim mcglinchey

24th April 2008, 22:53

MCN reports that Marco may be trying to buy himself out of his 2 year contract. Just how bad is the 08 Duke?

fatman

24th April 2008, 23:32

MCN reports that Marco may be trying to buy himself out of his 2 year contract. Just how bad is the 08 Duke?
Is that posted somewhere ? link !

Motogpmatters.com (http://blogger.xs4all.nl/daisy/archive/2008/04/21/380336.aspx) posted some translations from Marco's personal blog which shows his current state of mind.

Mach24

25th April 2008, 04:13

Unless the equipment is great (Honda), Marco has taken time to come to grips with his machinery in the premier class.

Obviously the Duc is unique and suited to the Stoner riding style (even tho Loris developed the 07 bike for himself - lets not forget that).

There are currently some inherent issues.

Perhaps Ant West's mediocrity is looking too good to be true right about now?

fatman

1st May 2008, 22:58

MotoGP Matters is reporting on some wild rummors.

To summarize Marco to defect to Kawasaki after China and Ant to head to Superbikes. Sounds like pure rummor but with perhaps a possibility.

T-D

2nd May 2008, 04:43

^^seems like a longshot^^

ducati are committed to helping marco, not replacing him. besides, what would it cost him to leave?

maxu05

2nd May 2008, 05:19

^^seems like a longshot^^

ducati are committed to helping marco, not replacing him. besides, what would it cost him to leave?

Committed to helping Melandri my butt. Ducati are committed to helping Ducati. Look back at Bayliss, then Loris. Ducati are only trying to help Marco at present, as they know they have problems with the bike. If Marco, or any of the other Ducati riders don't start to get results, they will drop them like a stone IMO.

tha_jackal

2nd May 2008, 09:03

Racesport.nl is reporting that Melandri could replace West at Kawasaki after the conclusion of the Shanghai round.. There's also reports of a straight swap between Tamada and West from WSBK to MotoGP ... Be interesting to see how things develop after Shanghai, methinks some **** will go down, sadly for Ant.. :(

Corny

2nd May 2008, 10:27

Racesport.nl also says that Biaggi could replace Marco... Just imagine how cool that'd be!
But I'm afraid that's just a bit of a dream for me :p

NinjaMaster

2nd May 2008, 10:46

I'd be astounded if Marco left Ducati for Kawasaki after 4 rounds. The West/Tamada thing I can kinda see but round 4 is so early. Has Tamada tested the bike to know if he would be any faster?

maxu05

2nd May 2008, 11:49

I have 2 theories if this was true. Firstly, perhaps Kawasaki feel that Ant would be quicker than Tamada on the SBK, and Tamada would be quicker than Ant on the GP bike. Secondly, it could be just a motivational ploy to get Ant firing, as he usually comes out swinging when things get tough.

NinjaMaster

2nd May 2008, 13:21

Secondly, it could be just a motivational ploy to get Ant firing, as he usually comes out swinging when things get tough.

Whilst this is normally true, things have been tough for a while for him this year and he appears to be swinging with both arms tied behind his back. Hopfully this is the weekend it turns around.

ChrisS

2nd May 2008, 17:14

Racesport.nl also says that Biaggi could replace Marco... Just imagine how cool that'd be!
But I'm afraid that's just a bit of a dream for me :p

if Biaggi was 100% then maybe there was a small chance but by his performance at Assen he is clearly not fit and why would Ducati want to bring in an injured rider?

ChrisS

2nd May 2008, 17:30

Does Tamada to MotoGP West to SBK has anything to do with the Kawasaki MotoGP engineers being at Assen last weekend? I thought they were there to help PSG-1 sort the bike

maxu05

2nd May 2008, 17:51

Does Tamada to MotoGP West to SBK has anything to do with the Kawasaki MotoGP engineers being at Assen last weekend? I thought they were there to help PSG-1 sort the bike

It certainly makes you wonder. The commentators mentioned the Motogp engineers in the Kawasaki pit many times, supposedly there to get the WSBK up to speed, but, you never know. There vis something going on for sure IMO.

T-D

2nd May 2008, 21:31

tamada/west swap makes sense in the same vein as a marco/west swap: people putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 5. such is the internet that i bet kropotkin and racesport.nl are probably quoting each other as sources.

tamada left motogp with a terrible reputation within the paddock as lazy and a quitter--two things you have never heard about west.

furthermore the contracts would have to be renegotiated. they do not race for the same team.

as for ducati--they screwed bayliss, but they put in a tremendous amount of effort to help loris last year. stoner remarked at last season's end, that he and loris's development had gone in such different directions that they couldn't even use the same data on tire tests.

Mach24

2nd May 2008, 23:52

Committed to helping Melandri my butt. Ducati are committed to helping Ducati. Look back at Bayliss, then Loris. Ducati are only trying to help Marco at present, as they know they have problems with the bike. If Marco, or any of the other Ducati riders don't start to get results, they will drop them like a stone IMO.

As would any serious professional team!

ShiftingGears

3rd May 2008, 00:29

tamada left motogp with a terrible reputation within the paddock as lazy and a quitter--two things you have never heard about west.

Really?
I remember Malaysia last year where Ant underperformed because he did not have the motivation after the penalty. Sounds like a quitter to me.

Roby44

3rd May 2008, 02:58

He's no quitter!!

That was a pissy penalty!!

T-D

3rd May 2008, 03:36

Really?
I remember Malaysia last year where Ant underperformed because he did not have the motivation after the penalty. Sounds like a quitter to me.
you are comparing relatively different things. ant dropped lap times for a couple laps, tamada parked a perfectly good bike. do you think kwak would have re-signed him had he quit on the team? ant has no sponsor backing, kwak would have never kept him if he dogged it.

3rd May 2008, 04:08

Getting back to the subject of Marco ;) If Ducati have worked through a lot of their very obvious problems and Stoner does well this weekend, then Marco's bike will also be competitive and we'll see him do a lot better. A bit simplistic I know, but...... Anyway I've picked Stoner for a win.

maxu05

3rd May 2008, 04:35

If Stoner wins on Sunday, Marco will really be under pressure if he doesn't get a good result. As well as the media pressure, he would also be second guessing himself. What would make it worse, would be if the satelite team get good results.

Faster1

3rd May 2008, 16:46

NO WAY -- What good is a bike that only one rider (Stoner) can ride. I'm not the biggest Melandri fan however no one would beat him on a works Honda (he pooved that last year by being competetive on a second rate bike) Elias dosen't suck Guintoli dosen't suck,,,Yet they are stuck on straight line drag bikes. The Ducati simply does not turn. cheers to Stoner for being able to find the key to that beast. Max? are you kidding, he couldn't win on the best (at that time) bike on the track.

ShiftingGears

4th May 2008, 01:05

NO WAY -- What good is a bike that only one rider (Stoner) can ride.

Pretty good, seeing as Stoner has won races with it. What good is a rider who can't ride it? ;)

Faster1

4th May 2008, 09:09

There is clearly a big problem at Ducati. It seems clear that Casey is the only current Ducati rider capable of exploiting the bike

Marco is yet again at the wrong end of qualifying - currently slowest towards the end of FP3

Should Ducati bite the bullet and axe him now or risk a season of disappointing results from their No2 rider???

Personally I'd try Max on the bike and move him from WSB for the rest of the year if he goes well on it and then hire a young gun in the mould of Stoner next year.

Utter Rubbish ,, The Ducati is a terrible bike ,,, The best motor isn't enough!

Melandri was competitive on a second rate Honda so you know he has talent.

Max was never flexible so it would be studpid to invite Mad Max to a test ride.

Corny

4th May 2008, 09:11

Marco did quit well today!

Roby44

4th May 2008, 10:18

Roby44

4th May 2008, 10:20

Marco did very well today..

I thought that just maybe he might have passed KC!!
THAT would have made my night!! :s mokin:

F1boat

4th May 2008, 12:24

I think that Casey is better than Marco, but now Melandri was solid. When Stoner is 3rd it is OK for Marco to be 5th. The Ducati still need to work harder.

Roby44

4th May 2008, 12:25

Marco is finally getting sorted on that Duke.

F1boat

4th May 2008, 12:33

Still, the bike IMO is not fast enough.

leopard

5th May 2008, 07:45

Probably the answer is now no more, they need senior riders like Biaggi reinventing the wheel in order the bike suited more for Melandri's style.

tha_jackal

5th May 2008, 09:36

Marco needs to share his secrets with Westy...

T-D

5th May 2008, 12:47

after reading marco's post-race quotes are people still doubting that ducati are committed to supporting him?

maxu05

5th May 2008, 14:48

The old saying that actions speak louder than words certainly rings true here. I must admit, feeling that Marco was not up to the task, however, after his result at the Shanghai circuit, perhaps we should have more faith in a rider that has shown in the past that he is gutsy, determined and very talented. The same could be said of Vale, many said that maybe he was past it, or perhaps he will retire, well, HE'S BACK. Lorenzo, thought he would be sitting out the race in Shanghai, well, what a ride, respect where it's due. As for Westy, forget what everyone is saying, just get on that bike and ride it like you stole it, that's the Westy of old that we want to see.

patnicholls

5th May 2008, 20:43

It certainly was a much better showing by Marco, and we are of course only on race four of the season anyway!

And in other Marco related news - he certainly puts the effort in. He was at Oulton Park today (Monday) to drive the course car and present the podium trophies at the BSB round. :up:

neninja

22nd June 2008, 12:42

Marco was slowest in morning warm up today - 4.5s slower than Stoner and 2.5 slower than Elias in the Alice Ducati (on a dry track). In fact he was lapping slower than the British Superbike front runners from earlier in the year on Pirelli control tyres (which in themselves are probably worth at least 1.5s)

Ducati should give him his marching orders with or without a replacement

maxu05

24th June 2008, 00:21

Poor old Marco. He is such a great rider, but just can't get used to the duke. He should have stayed put on the Gresini Honda IMO.

fatman

24th June 2008, 03:38

Marco marco marco.. where art thou marco ?

Ranger

27th June 2008, 11:02

It's becoming increasingly obvious that Marco won't be at Ducati next year. 3 seconds per lap difference means something don't gel here. Fortunately he has respectable achievements to lean back on, so he'll probably find another ride next year.

So... who's gonna replace him? Who's off-contract for next year?

Personally I'd get any possible replacement testing that Duc before they sign a contract (if that's possible). That way there won't find out too late that the combination is a dud.

NinjaMaster

27th June 2008, 14:09

I think everyone is aware and agrees that Marco is an enormous talent, an absolute class act, but his current situation is becoming increasingly bleak and pointless. The bike is clearly capable of so much more than Marco can get it to deliver when he is even outpaced by the Ducati test riders during tests. We are now at the season mid-point with no sign of improvement and I think for all parties that it would be best if he moved aside within the next couple of rounds for Canepa to gain experience.

tha_jackal

27th June 2008, 14:52

Melandri should be replaced by Evil Kenivel Jnr, whats his name? Robby or sum .. Yer, he could do a better job than a multiple MotoGP race winner.. Sheeshh, dont get me started..

tha_jackal

27th June 2008, 14:55

T-D

27th June 2008, 15:03

troy bayliss.

seriously, it's gotta be nicky hayden.

NinjaMaster

27th June 2008, 15:21

Should Ducati Replace Melandri Now? Uhm, NO! With who? Gibbernever? I think it's blatantly obvious that the GP8 is a very particular machine that only one massively insane Aussie rider can get the most out of.. Full ing stop...
And that's the major sticking point, who would replace him and do a better job. The only guy I can think of who would be worthwhile trialling is Nicolo Canepa. Melandri would probably be the worlds most expensive test rider in history! The dilemma for Ducati is that Melandri shows no signs of any improvement in the near or distant future.

ChrisS

27th June 2008, 15:37

Nicky Hayden looks most likely to ride for Ducati next season

I read a rumour that Sete will ride a factory spec bike for Alice/d'Antin and Aspar team will get the 4th Ducati

The Phantom

27th June 2008, 15:46

Chris Vermeulen? Ducati are looking to replace both Melandri and Bayliss, Chris could easily step into either position.

NinjaMaster

27th June 2008, 15:46

No point bringing Sete back. He couldn't quite get the biccies in his prime, he ain't gonna do it now. But Nicky for sure next year and let Raymond Roche fill in the rest of this year - has experience in GP and for Ducati. :)

NinjaMaster

27th June 2008, 15:48

Chris Vermeulen? Ducati are looking to replace both Melandri and Bayliss, Chris could easily step into either position.
Vermeulen would be worth a punt. The Duc appears to suit more physical riders and Chris with his Superbike and Dirt-track background would be half a chance to do well on the red beast. Melandri would be a prize catch for Suzuki too alongside Capirossi.

MrJan

27th June 2008, 16:20

Vermeulen would be worth a punt. The Duc appears to suit more physical riders and Chris with his Superbike and Dirt-track background would be half a chance to do well on the red beast. Melandri would be a prize catch for Suzuki too alongside Capirossi.

Likewise Nicky though. Hayden is nearly always the rider that spins the bike up the most, still don't think he'd be up there but would definately do better than Marco, hell even I'd have a chance.

neninja

27th June 2008, 22:47

Should Ducati Replace Melandri Now? Uhm, NO! With who? Gibbernever? I think it's blatantly obvious that the GP8 is a very particular machine that only one massively insane Aussie rider can get the most out of.. Full ing stop...

The fact that both the customer bikes (always much slower than the factory Ducati's based on past history) are massively quicker than Marco is reason enough.

His head is fried for this year and he's embarrassing himself and Ducati. Time for him to step back and try to re-assess his future.

Mach24

28th June 2008, 09:40

NinjaMaster

28th June 2008, 16:05

Strange, I have always felt that Ducati should stand by someone of Marco's reputation, but now I really wonder if the current situation is achieving anything for either party?

Perhaps the best option is for Marco to walk away and enjoy life for the remainder of 2008 before joining a new team in 2009 with a fresh outlook.

There is a little matter of a two year contract that Marco entered into. Is there a performance clause? Is there another team out there calling for number 33 on its bike in 09? If not perhaps D'Antin has 'found' a new rider.
Marco will be in demand if he is cut free, don't you worry. He is an elite rider and both Suzuki and Kawasaki would chase him hard I'm sure as well as he would come under consideration at Tech3 and Gresini. He will be on the MotoGP grid in 09, just depends which colours he will be in.

ArmchairBikeFan

28th June 2008, 22:49

I've heard rumours of Vermeulen to Ducati in WSBK. Pretty sweet ride if you can get along with the big V-twin.

Surely Hayden should be on the MotoGP Ducati. I don't know who else would be worth a punt on the Bologna Bullet.

maxu05

29th June 2008, 00:27

Ducati could also consider bringing Max Biaggi over to Motogp from WSBK, or perhaps get him to replace Troy?

NinjaMaster

29th June 2008, 09:22

Biaggi is in the Gibernau boat imo. He's had his day in MotoGP and should finish his racing career gracefully in superbike before retirement.
I struggle to see Vermeulen heading to WSB when his whole aim has been to get into MotoGP. In fact, I don't think anyone early or in the prime of their MotoGP career would entertain a switch to WSB, only riders at the end of their welcome through age or performance.

29th June 2008, 10:27

What about Simoncelli or Fabrizio for the next Italian GP rider at Ducati?

ArmchairBikeFan

29th June 2008, 22:08

Vermeulen might not have much of a choice in the matter. If politics mean that Suzuki run Capirossi and Spies next year, he might find himself booted out onto the street.

patnicholls

29th June 2008, 22:40

Ducati clearly face two problems at the same time - replacing Marco (as mentioned, from past years he's clearly got the talent but it's not working out) and replacing the irreplaceable Troy Bayliss next year.

Personally, I can't see any of the veterans (Sete, Max B) replacing Marco. It's a backward step to employ someone in the twilight of their career to do that job. It's also hard to see those same veterans (or Shakey Byrne, getting on a bit now at 34 years old) taking Troy B's ride next season.

It could, however, be realistic to see Sete on the bike for half a season to help with the Constructors' champ and then either Nicky Hayden - if the rumour mill is correct - or Niccolo Canepa be brought in for next season. Niccolo's been testing the bike but is also lined up for some WSB wildcards, so his future is unclear.

I bet Dovi's also a man in demand, though things are pointing to him staying with Honda.

As for Marco, I'd see him returning to Gresini where he did well - Fousto Gresini's patience with Alex de Angelis' repair bill may wear thin after this season despite flashes of speed.

T-D

30th June 2008, 04:05

shakey's only 32 years old and definitely in the prime of his career, or at least as comfortable on that ducati as ony rider, including troy bayliss.

i don't understand the fascination with youth anyway. bayliss is super quick, haga, the same. corser, despite not winning is still on pace. the only kid in wsbk that has really broken through this year is neukirchner.

as for motogp, marco melandri is getting the better of vermin, although it's getting closer. edwards is suddenly quick and zombie performed much better on a d'antin bike last year than marco is currently doing on a factory bike.

experienced riders bring with them a wealth of knowledge, and if they have the pace, i say go for it. race contracts are rarely more than 2 years anyway, and there's always some up and coming fast kid to ride the bike next year. if bayliss or sete were getting results, i gather ducati wouldn't find hiring them to be a backward step.

leopard

30th June 2008, 08:29

Yeah, another Marco who is now still at 250 cc deserves a mention.

neninja

1st July 2008, 15:41

Apparently Spanish radio and TV are reporting that Marco has been sacked and Sete will take his place for the rest of the year

T-D

1st July 2008, 18:06

according to Autosport, Kwack have expressed an interest in Marco for Germany to replace Hopper.

jim mcglinchey

1st July 2008, 19:05

What do you mean replace Hopper, when the bike wasnt breaking down Hopper looked good.How long is he out injured for?

jim mcglinchey

1st July 2008, 19:06

[quote="T-D"]

as for motogp, marco melandri is getting the better of vermin, although it's getting closer.

what?

T-D

1st July 2008, 19:24

What do you mean replace Hopper, when the bike wasnt breaking down Hopper looked good.How long is he out injured for?

hopper is out for germany and probably laguna seca. broken bones in feet and ankles.

neninja

1st July 2008, 19:44

I'm now beginning to wonder about the credibility of my source

Can't find any mention of Marco being sacked and replaced by Sete on any of the main Spanish sports sites and they would have been plastered with it

gco0307

2nd July 2008, 11:09

as for motogp, marco melandri is getting the better of vermin, although it's getting closer.

Ok, sorry but have to ask what you mean by this comment?

Current MotoGP Standings:
Chris Vermuelen - 9th on 57 points
Marco Melandri - 14th on 32 points

CV's 57 points is accumulated in 7 point scoring rounds
MM's 32 points is also from 7 point scoring rounds.

Each has one DNF and One finish out of the points (CV's being in Qatar where I think he was punted off by DePuniet, MM's was Donnington)

Broken down by event:

Round: Chris Vermuelen Marco Melandri
Qatar 17 (bike issue) 11
Spain 10 12
Portugal 8 13
China DNF 5
France 5 15
Italy 10 DNF
Catalunya 7 11
Donnington 8 16
Assen 7 13

So, year to date CV has MM's measure as it stands, but if it is career wise you mean than yes, MM is in front by lieu of the number of seasons etc.

Garry

patnicholls

2nd July 2008, 12:39

I think T-D's post (#84) above should read 'Loris Capirossi is getting the better of Vermuelen...' in the context of the point he's making.

T-D

2nd July 2008, 14:40

Mach24

3rd July 2008, 02:43

and before vermin fans get on me, i have to admit that chris has raised his game substantially the last few rounds, so now the teammates are much closer.

You mean since Loris injured himself and has not raced? In this time CV has out qualified and finished ahead of him each time.

Chris has some work to do!

T-D

3rd July 2008, 04:04

You mean since Loris injured himself and has not raced? In this time CV has out qualified and finished ahead of him each time.

Chris has some work to do!NOPE!
in the three qualifying sessions prior to the crash, (that is, including Catalunya) chris outqualified loris. In the 2 races prior to that, chris finished ahead of loris and additionally, at the time of his catalunya crash, chris was running ahead of loris.

that would be three straight races-- head to head-that chris had the better of loris.

leopard

3rd July 2008, 08:22

We and Marco himself might have expected too much that he can deliver an amazing result at a Ducati. If not mistaken he won the titles on RdP not by significant margin. While at Gressini Sete outshone him and was able to give more attractive game against Rossi.

Sete might be an alternative temporarily until this season-end, but for the long term Duke might need to start giving an eye to another Marco 250cc rider, a Rossi look-alike, unless if Sete can perform positive progress in the rest of the season.

gco0307

3rd July 2008, 09:36

sorry, i meant loris capirossi. thanks, pat nicholls.

sorry to make you do all that research, garry. *blushes*

and before vermin fans get on me, i have to admit that chris has raised his game substantially the last few rounds, so now the teammates are much closer.

All cool, no probs was fun actually looking it all up.

As for CV, I will say now that I like the guy and do rate him but I also feel that he needs to start getting the results that (IMO) his skills deserve. Whether the problem is him, is equipment or a combination of both I do not know but given that Capirossi has also struggled somewhat on the Suzuki I lean towards the bike being the major factor.

Garry

Mach24

3rd July 2008, 10:07

NOPE!
in the three qualifying sessions prior to the crash, (that is, including Catalunya) chris outqualified loris. In the 2 races prior to that, chris finished ahead of loris and additionally, at the time of his catalunya crash, chris was running ahead of loris.

that would be three straight races-- head to head-that chris had the better of loris.

Interesting...... My understanding is that Loris is signed for 09. Suzuki want Spies!

CV on the outer?

neninja

3rd July 2008, 17:49

Sete has completed the 3 days Mugello test

He apparently consistently lapped in low 1'51's with a best lap of 1'50.5 (on race tyres) which is only 0.4s off the lap record set by Casey at the circuit this year. His times would have apparently put him 5th at the Italian GP.

Seriously impressive I'd say considering the length of time he's been away from racing.

If I was Ducati it would be an easy decision. It might cost then to pay Marco off but that would be paid back by having another rider who might challenge and help support Casey

MrJan

3rd July 2008, 17:55

Seriously impressive I'd say considering the length of time he's been away from racing.

Certainly is :up: My one question would be if he could put in a similar performance in race conditions. It seems to me that he lost confidence once Rossi put his 'curse' on him and then put him in the gravel.

He was always quick but once a rider starts worrying about falling off then they will struggle, IMO.

leopard

4th July 2008, 07:19

There weren't any better choice for Sete but fighting head to head against Rossi. There were not too much riders who rode at the front but them two, Biaggi has had the time since he was no longer riding two stroke of Yamaha. Generally climate of competitions weren't as tight as now. We can easily now find some riders alternately to get in the mix at the front, Rossi, Stoner, Pedrosa, Lorenzo, or Edwards. I'd rather to put a bit aside his performance of last two seasons as he wasn't mentally on perfect form, besides technical problem of his bike.

The situation is probably different now, fighting head to head is just anyhow harder and it put more pressure to the riders, Rossi is probably an exception. I think Sete could be easier to ride in the group of race leader, unless if he has mentally destroyed and Rossi is a nightmare something at any rate he should avoid of.
Sete is an asset, no regret to give him another try.

maxu05

4th July 2008, 08:29

I think if Sete took over from Marco he would do well. He had a lot of pressure on him to beat a dominant Rossi, but, the scenario has changed somewhat. Rossi is under pressure from Heehaw, Pedrosa, Stoner and Edwards every race these days. I think Sete would find it more enjoyable to race against some of these riders, and not always against Rossi.

gco0307

4th July 2008, 09:19

Indeed, impressive times from Sete but as Jan Yeo alludes, how would this translate to a race?

I fully expect that Sete could return and be fully race fit within a few race meetings after which if he can repeat the performances under race conditions he would be the perfect foil for CS and Ducati. It must be recognised that he will not be hired to beat or takes points from CS but to get between CS and the chasing pack and take points that way.

As for the 'alleged curse' placed upon Sete by VR, I for one remain unconvinced as I felt that SG just lost the most crucial ingredient for a racer ............... the hunger to win. It also has to be remembered that his shoulder was severely injured in the coming together with VR and that for a while, every time he fell it was onto that shoulder further damaging it.

Should Sete return I am sure that he will perform well and complete much of the unfinished business.

Garry

Ranger

4th July 2008, 12:17

Was Marco as close to Stoner in pre-race testing as Gibba's been recently?

If not, we have our #1 candidate for the Duc if Marco bails before the season's out.

jim mcglinchey

4th July 2008, 12:57

Pre-season Marco was nowhere near. Of the four Dooks riders , Marco was nearly always slowest.

MrJan

4th July 2008, 13:03

As for the 'alleged curse' placed upon Sete by VR, I for one remain unconvinced as I felt that SG just lost the most crucial ingredient for a racer ............... the hunger to win. It also has to be remembered that his shoulder was severely injured in the coming together with VR and that for a while, every time he fell it was onto that shoulder further damaging it.

That voodo stuff don't mean nothing to me :D However it is certainly interesting that once Rossi said SG wouldn't win another race, he didn't. Even when Sete got a break and was leading something happened to ruin it (I'm think Estoril here). He had some shocking luck and as you say just kept injuring himself (Ducati had a real year of it with him and Loris, especially that nasty accident in Catalunya).

I think that he was still hungry for a win, just not confident enough (which seems to be George's problem at the minute. I certainly think that he'd do better that MArco on the Ducati and would probably be running with the second group behind the top three. As for winning a race, there is only one way to find out :D

maxu05

4th July 2008, 13:12

No Voodoo involved IMO. Rossi just played mind games on the dude and broke his confidence. I think Marco could do a lot better, but he is convinced that he cannot ride the bike. Ducati don't want him, and He doesn't want to be with Ducati, but, they don't want to let him run off to Kawasaki and beat their bike, so they are making him stay.

NinjaMaster

4th July 2008, 13:21

The more I think about it, the more this makes sense to me which really is a shame after all the potential the Melandri - Ducati relationship promised after his signing. However, after half the season, things appear to somehow be getting worse than the rock bottom we thought they'd reached. Given Marco's regression of the last few races, I finally given in to the conclusion that his continuation is counter-productive for both parties. I think for the benefit of both parties that now is probably a good time to separate and let Sete one last hurrah. Even if Gibernau is only midpack, it is still a vast improvement on where they are at currently and is far more deserving for the people and sponsors behind the team. Who knows, maybe Marco would get some early 'pre-season' testing via wildcard/replacement rides with either Kawasaki or Suzuki. It really can't get any worse.

FIA

4th July 2008, 22:24

Maybe a Hayden/Melandri mid season swap?

maxu05

4th July 2008, 22:40

Maybe a Hayden/Melandri mid season swap?

That will never happen. Hayden will not leave Honda half way through the season, he is just starting to get the bike working. Pity the bike ran out of fuel though.

MrJan

5th July 2008, 00:55

Pity the bike ran out of fuel though.

You've gotta admit, that was quite funny :laugh: I've been waiting to see when that'd happen, from what the Beeb commentators say it's fairly tight at the end of most races. Feel sorry for the bloke but he was gifted a win by Colin in '06 (??) so it's kinda like karma :D

NinjaMaster

5th July 2008, 01:36

Whilst gutted for Nicky, I found it amusing after hearing that the bikes management systems will lean off fuel supply to guarantee they get to the finish. In fairness, Nicky did get to the finish. :)

Roby44

5th July 2008, 06:15

MCN

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a20/MareeBrooks/IMG_6319.jpg

Mach24

5th July 2008, 06:23

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/68795

Ducati team boss Livio Suppo says it's 99 percent certain that Marco Melandri will stay at the team at least until the US Grand Prix.

The Italian's future in the team is in doubt after a dismal season, in which he has been completely overshadowed by teammate Casey Stoner.

Melandri's position has led to speculation about his immediate future, with former GP winner Sete Gibernau linked to the ride already for this season.

Gibernau tested for Ducati last month and is testing again this week, in what it is rumoured to be his preparation to return to MotoGP racing action following his retirement in 2006.

Suppo said, however, that no announcement will be made at the end of the test and that Melandri is likely to ride at Sachsenring and Laguna Seca, the two races before the Czech Grand Prix at Brno.

"It's 99% certain that Melandri will race at Sachsenring and in the USA," Suppo told Gazzetta dello Sport. "Do not expect announcements at the end of testing."

Melandri has been linked with a switch to the Kawasaki team, who could be looking for a replacement for the injured John Hopkins, likely to miss at least two races following his heavy crash at Assen.

The Japanese squad, who had failed to make an impression so far this year, have been rumoured to be considering fielding a third bike for Melandri if the Italian leaves Ducati.

maxu05

5th July 2008, 07:46

I think Marco will just have another 2 miserable races on the Ducati. His mind is already made up IMO, he is out of there. I think this could be a great gain for Kawasaki, and it would be great for them and the championship to field 3 bikes for the rest of the year.

ChrisS

5th July 2008, 23:10

That will never happen. Hayden will not leave Honda half way through the season, he is just starting to get the bike working. Pity the bike ran out of fuel though.

Plus the 2 US rounds are coming up and Nicky did a lot of PR work for the Indy GP. Honda wont waste all this positive PR by giving away the star American rider

gco0307

5th July 2008, 23:56

Have read elsewhere a translated Italian article which alludes to the fact that the hod-up to the release is MM's wages demands.

Apparently he (through management) wants the remainder of 2008 salary and a percentage of 2009 as a minimum of he is to leave the team.

There are no facts to this demand, just a translation to an article posted into a forum (translation done by poster).

But, I have also heard somewhere that the financial issue is definitely the hold-up to MM's leaving as his rumoured salary has him on twice that of CS.

Garry

patnicholls

5th July 2008, 23:57

All I can add is that a change can't happen soon enough for Marco. It's sad to see such a talented rider struggle so badly with a machine - he was absolutely dreadful at Donington (which is almost his 'home' race - he lives in Derby about half an hour away). If the race had been two laps longer Casey would've lapped him, and Alex de Angelis who had an early off-track moment caught up about twenty seconds on him, passed and pulled away before shredding his tyres.

Afraid it is time for Sete to finish out the season before Ducati decide what they're going to do next re Nicky or anyone else. I don't think Sete is a long-term solution - his time has been and gone realistically - but it should at least spare any further embarrassment.

6th July 2008, 02:26

GCO0307 POST
"But, I have also heard somewhere that the financial issue is definitely the hold-up to MM's leaving as his rumoured salary has him on twice that of CS."

Crikey..........If that is correct then Ducati is really getting its money's worth out of Casey Stoner. :hot:

fatman

6th July 2008, 04:54

It is so utterly painful. It just seems like he's past the point of even trying. Nobody can possibly believe that he is doing his best.

It's too bad that Marco isn't going to replace Hopper. It would be great to see Marco on the Kawa and Sete on the Ducati at a race soon. But something tells me that might not happen.

What would happen if Sete was the one getting lapped and Marco was finishing top ten? Ducati would have egg on their face.

But if Sete hops on the Duc and finishes anywhere in the top 10 and Marco is anywhere outside the top 10 his confidence could be gone for good.

Marco might just be best to take the year off and then hope on a new bike during Winter tests.

maxu05

6th July 2008, 05:14

Good point Ryan. Getting a flogging on the Kawasaki could totally ruin Marco, but I feel he needs to take the chance. I think the Kwaka would be more suited to him. Sete seems to have adapted to the Ducati, judging by the lap times he posted in testing. The only sticking point for it all to happen is Marco's manager asking for too much money for him to step down, from what I have read. Cut your losses and get out of there Marco, the Kwak is even offering you a third bike for the rest of the season, and the chance of a contract for 2009 if you can get some decent results.

NinjaMaster

6th July 2008, 09:35

I think Marco will do alright on the Kwak. If they can get the thing to finish a race then I think it has the pace for Marco to achieve anywhere between 5th and 10th finishings(?), similar to where Suzuki are at the moment. I think he would happily take that given how his year has gone so far. Then hopefully Kawasaki continue with this same 3-rider thru 2009 as well.

jim mcglinchey

6th July 2008, 12:27

Have read elsewhere a translated Italian article which alludes to the fact that the hod-up to the release is MM's wages demands.

Apparently he (through management) wants the remainder of 2008 salary and a percentage of 2009 as a minimum of he is to leave the team.

Garry

That would be really ugly and could result in Marco deliberately not trying just to spite Ducati. I read the opposite a while back, that Marco might have to buy his way out of his contract

jim mcglinchey

6th July 2008, 12:34

Would there be any more glorious a sight than a renewed Sete on his Duke going mano a mano against Rossi in the second part of the season?

NinjaMaster

6th July 2008, 13:58

Just imagine if he beat Rossi a couple of times, enough that Stoner beat Vale to the title. I reckon Sete would re-retire a very happy man.

T-D

6th July 2008, 14:23

That would be really ugly and could result in Marco deliberately not trying just to spite Ducati. I read the opposite a while back, that Marco might have to buy his way out of his contractcould result in marco deliberately not trying?

he already is deliberately not trying. does anyone think he really is 3 seconds a lap slower than casey? 1 sec or 2 even secs a lap slower is down to comfort level on the bike, i believe, but 3 secs per lap is him simply not racing, just cruising.

MrJan

6th July 2008, 15:31

could result in marco deliberately not trying?

he already is deliberately not trying. does anyone think he really is 3 seconds a lap slower than casey? 1 sec or 2 even secs a lap slower is down to comfort level on the bike, i believe, but 3 secs per lap is him simply not racing, just cruising.

Don't think so. Racers don't want to look as rubbish as he does now. Even if he was deliberately slow then I'd think he'd want to be ahead of the satellite team so that people don't think he is that bad. Remember that when he's next looking for a ride it'll harm his chances quite a lot.

T-D

6th July 2008, 20:02

many racers have quit trying. some have even parked perfectly good motorcycles (tamada and hoffman last year, for example).

i don't think marco is above that. neither does the suppo. the only reason they are insisting that he stay on the bike is because the lawyers have not worked out a financial resolution that works for both parties.

i find it extremely plausible that marco's -3 second per lap pace is purposely trying to force ducati's hand. the only reason kwack mentioned him as a replacement at germany is because they had an inkling that he'd be available. ducati squashed that. now what we have is a peeing match between marco and ducati. marco wanting out versus ducati's desire to not overpay him while simultaneously firing him.

NinjaMaster

7th July 2008, 09:19

I'm not convinced that he's deliberately given up/not trying but I think he's so lost on the bike that he's lost that desire and confidence to push to the nth degree and risk his neck which is required to be competitive. Given his speed was already below par it has now compounded itself. As far as finishing up with Ducati, surely he should ask for no more than to be paid out of this year, waive next year :wave: and move on?

12th July 2008, 23:07

Article by Kropotkin from www.motogpmatters.com/ (http://www.motogpmatters.com/) posted 12 July.
That Marco Melandri is unlikely to sit out the 2nd year of his contract with Ducati in 2009 was an open secret. But now, that open secret has become something akin to a public announcement. Alberto Vergani, Melandri's manager, told GPOne.com's Alberto Cani that Melandri will not be with Ducati for 2009 (http://www.gpone.com/news/News.asp?NNews=2391). The Italian's contract with Ducati allows the contract to be dissolved by mutual consent with no financial penalty, despite rumors to the contrary. And with Melandri in his current form, there can be no doubt that the consent will be very much mutual.
Vergani had other interesting things to say to Cani. When asked about Melandri's future, Vergani stated that the most likely option for the Italian is a return to Fausto Gresini's satellite Honda squad, where Gresini continues to be a great admirer of Melandri. He confirmed that Kawasaki has also expressed an interest in Melandri, but denied that Melandri could end up on a Kawasaki before the 2008 season is over.
On the question of whether Melandri could quit Ducati before the season is out, Vergani was clear: "Our intention remains to finish the season with Ducati. Marco wants to tackle the problems he's been having, it's a question of saving his honor," Melandri's manager said. This does not mean that Melandri will not leave before the season is out: "That is, if Ducati doesn't have other ideas."
http://www.gpone.com/news/News.asp?NNews=2391 ITALIAN ITEM
Vergani: “Melandri libero dalla Ducati per il 2009”l Sachsenring Alberto Vergani, manager di Marco Melandri, ha fatto chiarezza sul futuro del pilota ravennate: “Ad Assen abbiamo toccato il punto più basso dell’anno, ma la nostra intenzione rimane quella di finire la stagione con la Ducati. Marco vuole affrontare il problema, vogliamo salvare l’onore. – ha spiegato – Se, poi, la nostra volontà non coinciderà con quella della Ducati, ne prenderemo atto”.

Avete vagliato delle alternative, nell’eventualità che la Ducati decida di sostituire Marco dopo il Gran Premio degli Stati Uniti?
“Potrebbe anche rimanere fermo aspettando il 2009”.

Ci sono possibilità che possa accasarsi alla Kawasaki?
“No, non credo”.

Riguardo al 2009, invece, com’è la situazione? Quello che è sicuro è che Marco non sarà in Ducati, è così?
“Sì, il contratto che ci legava alla Ducati anche per il 2009 è stato risolto di comune accordo, quindi senza alcuna penale. Questo va detto per chi crede che Marco sia qui per soldi”.

Quali sono quindi le possibilità in chiave 2009?
“Le ipotesi più probabili sono chiaramente il team di Fausto Gresini, che rimane un grande estimatore di Marco, e questo ci fa molto piacere, e la Kawasaki, che non ha mai nascosto di volerlo con sé”.

Alberto Cani

12th July 2008, 23:26

GOOGLE TRANSLATION OF ITALIAN INTERVIEW (for the sake of accuracy)

"Melandri free from Ducati for 2009" the Sachsenring Alberto Vergani, manager of Marco Melandri, made clear on the future of the pilot Ravenna: "At Assen we touched the lowest point of the year, but our intention remains to finish the season with Ducati. Marco wants to tackle the problem, we want to save the honour. -- He explained - If, then, we will not coincide with that of Ducati, will take place. "

You have explored alternatives, in the event Ducati decides to replace Marco after the United States Grand Prix?
"It could also remain detained awaiting the 2009".

There are possibilities that could accasarsi Kawasaki?
"No, I do not think."

About 2009, however, as the situation? What is sure is that Mark will not be Ducati, is so?
"Yes, the contract that we also linked to Ducati for 2009 was resolved by mutual agreement, and then without penalty. This needs to be said for those who believe that Mark is here for money. "

What are the possibilities in a 2009?
"The most likely hypothesis is clearly the team Fausto Gresini, which remains a great admirer of Mark, and this makes us very happy, and Kawasaki, who has never hidden want with it."