Gascoyne slams Hamilton hand gesture

[CNR]

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/09042008/23/gascoyne-slams-hamilton-hand-gesture.html



Fisi wasn't being lapped, Force India (http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/formula-1/force-india.html) technical guru asserts - so why did Lewis react like that?
Force India technical director Mike Gascoyne has added his voice to those who blasted Lewis Hamilton (http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/formula-1/lewis-hamilton.html)'s performance in Bahrain last weekend - by describing the McLaren (http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/formula-1/mclaren.html)-Mercedes ace's angry gesture towards Giancarlo Fisichella (http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/formula-1/giancarlo-fisichella.html) as 'totally unnecessary'.

[Tazio]

Originally Posted by 'Bolt
Fisi wasn't being lapped, Force India technical guru asserts - so why did Lewis react like that?
Force India technical director Mike Gascoyne has added his voice to those who blasted Lewis Hamilton's performance in Bahrain last weekend - by describing the McLaren-Mercedes ace's angry gesture towards Giancarlo Fisichella as 'totally


That impropriety was dismissed on this Forum by the Anglo-Mafia.
I found it very immature personally, and believe it speaks volumes about Lewis Hamilton the sportsman.

[MAX_THRUST]

Thats funny as the only hand jesture I saw was from Alonso to someone else...Again a car he was not lapping!!!! Didn't know lweis had as well.

Why isn Lewis immature. He's more capable and mature enough to handel racing an F1 car, how many times have you driven an F1 car? He's mature enough to not have had a go at Alonso when there was possibly grounds to do so. Showed he was very mature I think. Why do somany of you hate him. What has he done appart from be succesful quickly. Grow up and deal with it. He's young, quick and well liked, I guess your not?

Not having a go at you, but comments like that on web forums where you can not be judged by your peers seems a nlittle immature to me. It seems strange so many people are against him. What has he done.?????

[Big Ben]

Why do somany of you hate him.

It seems strange so many people are against him. What has he done.?????

I don't know why the others don't like him but for me it is because he left me without a fav team... now I'm watching every race with less and less interest

[Tazio]

Thats funny as the only hand jesture I saw was from Alonso to someone else...Again a car he was not lapping!!!! Didn't know lweis had as well.

Why isn Lewis immature. He's more capable and mature enough to handel racing an F1 car, how many times have you driven an F1 car? He's mature enough to not have had a go at Alonso when there was possibly grounds to do so. Showed he was very mature I think. Why do somany of you hate him. What has he done appart from be succesful quickly. Grow up and deal with it. He's young, quick and well liked, I guess your not?

Not having a go at you, but comments like that on web forums where you can not be judged by your peers seems a nlittle immature to me. It seems strange so many people are against him. What has he done.?????
Oh Yes you are, and did have a go at me. Why do you have to bring fred into this discourse. His antics are well documented.
Im judging you on this forum! I judge your logic, your motive, your literacy, and your age. I'm not an F1 driver
It's not a prerequisit to give critcism here.

"He's young" a conditoion everyone experiences "He's quick" Not as quick as when I played ball. But I was one of the quickest. "well liked" I don't know any of his personal friends. "I guess your not" That sometimes goes hand in hand with envy!
"Grow up" No thanks I've been growing younger for some time now! :p :
I don't hate Lewis Hamilton! I don't even know him.

[Storm]

Its just a hand gesture....just let it go already.

Although I am no fan of Hamilton, lets not bash him for showing some emotions ....although it is sort of childish to wave fingers to cars you are racing and not lapping (unless he was chopped etc)

The reason some people don't like him( or rather are not in absolute love with him) is the constant hype and talk about him being the best thing to happen to F1 ever....wasn't Button supposed to be that ? :p :

[woody2goody]

Although I am English, an a Hamilton fan, I will present both sides of the argument, hopefully fairly.

1. Maybe it could have been a gesture to say 'thanks for getting out of my way'. This isn't inconceivable, but Fisi and Sato did almost have a go back, so they didn't give their positions up as easily as maybe he thought.

2. IF it was a gesture made in an angry way, then this behaviour shouldn't be tolerated. In my opinion, this is no way to behave towards a driver with nearly 200 Grands Prix starts, and who, maybe Lewis needs to be reminded, has only won 2 GPs less than him. Being in a McLaren fighting for the championship isn't a prerequisite to be just let past when fighting for position. Look at Sato on Alonso in Montreal last year. Taku didn't not pass Fernando just because the McLaren was fighting for the title.

I think if Alonso is making gestures then he should be told off as well. These incidents come from the fact that both men in recent years have been used to being right at the front, and they possibly don't like actually having to overtake people.

[ioan]

Thats funny as the only hand jesture I saw was from Alonso to someone else...Again a car he was not lapping!!!! Didn't know lweis had as well.

That's really funny!


Why isn Lewis immature. He's more capable and mature enough to handel racing an F1 car, how many times have you driven an F1 car? He's mature enough to not have had a go at Alonso when there was possibly grounds to do so. Showed he was very mature I think.

Driving a F1 car has nothing to do with being mature enough or not. And we had plenty of examples of F1 drivers behaving like spoilt brats, Hamilton included!

[maxu05]

I have lost count of how many times I have given other drivers the Bird. Big deal. It's a spare of the moment thing, and should not be such a big deal IMO. Frustration can be a strong motive.

[hugh_lee]

he did it twice. first was when he passed sato who he was racing with, and the second at fisi. it's not like they were doing illegal blocking, he was just expecting them to slide over for him and give him the red carpet. i like lewis, but that time i though he was a pr#@k.

[Zico]

I have lost count of how many times I have given other drivers the Bird. Big deal. It's a spare of the moment thing, and should not be such a big deal IMO. Frustration can be a strong motive.

Yes, but like his speeding conviction hes bringing the sport into disrepute.. ;)




No, totally agree with you.. yet another petty anti-Hamilton thread. Im usually a resident on the WRC side of the forum, so to see all this bickering over such petty things is quite bizzare, Im begining to wonder whats behind it all. Is it purely a team allegience stemmed criticism.. bit like football banter? or does it go deeper than that?

[Tazio]

Although I am English, an a Hamilton fan, I will present both sides of the argument, hopefully fairly.

1. Maybe it could have been a gesture to say 'thanks for getting out of my way'. This isn't inconceivable, but Fisi and Sato did almost have a go back, so they didn't give their positions up as easily as maybe he thought.

2. IF it was a gesture made in an angry way, then this behaviour shouldn't be tolerated. In my opinion, this is no way to behave towards a driver with nearly 200 Grands Prix starts, and who, maybe Lewis needs to be reminded, has only won 2 GPs less than him. Being in a McLaren fighting for the championship isn't a prerequisite to be just let past when fighting for position. Look at Sato on Alonso in Montreal last year. Taku didn't not pass Fernando just because the McLaren was fighting for the title.

I think if Alonso is making gestures then he should be told off as well. These incidents come from the fact that both men in recent years have been used to being right at the front, and they possibly don't like actually having to overtake people.
Woody that is some of your best work ;)

[Tazio]

Yes, but like his speeding conviction hes bringing the sport into disrepute.. ;)




No, totally agree with you.. yet another petty anti-Hamilton thread. Im usually a resident on the WRC side of the forum, so to see all this bickering over such petty things is quite bizzare, Im begining to wonder whats behind it all. Is it purely a team allegience stemmed criticism.. bit like football banter? or does it go deeper than that?This is not an anti Hamilton thread. Not as far as I'm concerned it has to do with the self-policing of the game. It has to do with respect. I don't have a problem with a driver flipping another one off, if the other one is dicking with him. In baseball a self-policing game. If you witness a batter who gets fat pitch, and drills it into the cheap seats doesn't trot around the Basses laughing or gesturing to the pitcher, or generally showing him up at all. The reason is he doesn't want to have to worry about every time he steps to the plate that the guy on the mound recognizes him as the punk that showed up that pitcher and decides to give him some 95mph chin music. The same holds true for on track etiquette if you make a mistake like LH slapping wings with Fred, and then and most importantly accidentally drive your car right up the same guys tail pipe. A sportsman may not like it but it is a (two separate) racing incident only a poor sport would take issue with it. But if you start flipping guys off that are doing their best to do what they get paid to do not only are you a poor sport, but someone might Sponge Bob you just on general principals!
I think the only reason this is an issue at least for me is I've never seen Hamilton act that way. I hope for his fans, it doesn't become a habit!

[wmcot]

he did it twice. first was when he passed sato who he was racing with, and the second at fisi. it's not like they were doing illegal blocking, he was just expecting them to slide over for him and give him the red carpet. i like lewis, but that time i though he was a pr#@k.

I think it's a state of mind. He's so used to starting from the front that he assumes everyone he is trying to pass is lapped traffic! Then again, maybe he was gesturing to them for having the gall to pass him on his horrible start! ;)

[Tazio]

I think it's a state of mind. He's so used to starting from the front that he assumes everyone he is trying to pass is lapped traffic! Then again, maybe he was gesturing to them for having the gall to pass him on his horrible start! ;) He had a bad day just like the Ferraris did in oz I think I prefer seing Kimi sliding off the tack to LH expressing frustration. At least Kimi was trying to pass. Partly due to the fact he didn't expect any free ones! :p :

[AJP]

it is because he left me without a fav team...

How has Lewis left you without a favourite team?

[AJP]

Driving a F1 car has nothing to do with being mature enough or not. And we had plenty of examples of F1 drivers behaving like spoilt brats, Hamilton included!Any more drivers that come to mind?

[woody2goody]

Massa and Coulthard was a bit handbaggy.

[Hawkmoon]

Maybe Hamilton was trying to get into the groove of being a back-marking "monkey" so was making ape-like gestures to help his frame of mind.

[AJP]

Maybe Hamilton was trying to get into the groove of being a back-marking "monkey" so was making ape-like gestures to help his frame of mind.
not even close to being funny bro ...

[ShiftingGears]

It's a hand gesture, people. Need I say more?

[wmcot]

It's a hand gesture, people. Need I say more?

I can't think of any other sort of gesture that you could see outside the cockpit! :)

[CNR]

some more lewis bashing

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/34561/Racing-Diver-Lewis-book-now-99p-/



Formula 1 ace Lewis Hamilton’s autobiography has taken the fast lane to the bargain bin.

[Hawkmoon]

not even close to being funny bro ...

No and nor were Hamilton's comments about the "monkeys at the back" when he made them at Monaco last year.

[CaptainRaiden]

It's a hand gesture, people. Need I say more?

The question is, what's the need for it? Just because Fisi didn't bend over and let him go through?? Because he was stuck for three laps behind a Super Aguri first and then a Force India car?? Who does Lewis think he is? THE ONE?

We have seen Kimi or Alonso carve their way through the back of the field SO many times. Have you ever seen any one of them waving their hands because they had some difficulty passing another driver?

Oh, and I'm not defending Alonso here, but his gesture was not towards Glock, but to himself, because he locked up on the previous corner and lost time. So, it was just a fist in the air rather than to Glock. Whereas Hamilton looked like he was hallucinating in some other dimension where he thought he was lapping backmarkers.

[ShiftingGears]

The question is, what's the need for it? Just because Fisi didn't bend over and let him go through?? Because he was stuck for three laps behind a Super Aguri first and then a Force India car?? Who does Lewis think he is? THE ONE?.

I repeat - it is a hand gesture. So what?!

[ioan]

Maybe Hamilton was trying to get into the groove of being a back-marking "monkey" so was making ape-like gestures to help his frame of mind.

:rotflmao:
That comment of his came back to bite him several times already, and will do so in the future!

[ioan]

Who does Lewis think he is? THE ONE?

Jet Li beat him to that spot! ;)

[Tazio]

I repeat - it is a hand gesture. So what?!I would like to propose a questioin to you. Don't you think it is counter productive
to to express disatisfaction to a driver you are racing for position with?
It would make me feel like I owe it to the guy to hesitate in moving over when I was being passed
as a back marker!

[truefan72]

yawn

another LH bashing session here

no surprise

even if he were a saint, I'm sure som would find reasons to expouse they frustration.

[ShiftingGears]

I would like to propose a questioin to you. Don't you think it is counter productive
to to express disatisfaction to a driver you are racing for position with?
It would make me feel like I owe it to the guy to hesitate in moving over when I was being passed
as a back marker!

Well giving the finger definitely isn't constructive!

I didn't think it constituted such pathetic bickering, however. Even the thread title is written as if Hamilton did something damning.

[Tazio]

Well giving the finger definitely isn't constructive!

I didn't think it constituted such pathetic bickering, however. Even the thread title is written as if Hamilton did something damning.
I get your point as well as TF's I'm not defending any comments that are given for the sole sake of codemnation!

[hugh_lee]

i'd blame it all to immaturity; despite his "i'm cool" statements, he isn't. was it the chinese or brazilian gP last year when alonso overtook him and he let his emotions take the better of him and you could see fro his driving that he took it personally and tried to take his place back at all costs which resulted in quite a few mistakes. it was good that he tried, but considering he didn't need to, as he would have been champion even if he didn't get his place bakc, he still did, it was immaturity bordering on arrogance. same thing happened when he did those gestures. can't let your emotions get the better of you

[Knock-on]

Gave up reading this after the first few posts :laugh:

He flipped the bird. Boo Hoo!!!

The best Bird that was flipped was Alonso going backwards. Now, THAT was impressive lol

I really do wonder how infantile some people get on here :D

[BDunnell]

It probably was unnecessary, but there's no need to adopt such a high moral tone about it as some are doing. These things, and worse, happen in motor racing.

[Garry Walker]

not even close to being funny bro ...

I thought it was very funny, although Hamiltons sheer arrogance at other drivers is even funnier. Hopefully next time they make lapping a bit harder for LH for his stupid behaviour.


The question is, what's the need for it? Just because Fisi didn't bend over and let him go through?? Because he was stuck for three laps behind a Super Aguri first and then a Force India car?? Who does Lewis think he is? THE ONE?
I think LH really does think he is THE ONE (due to the hype), but with every passing day it is looking more and more unlikely that he is.



We have seen Kimi or Alonso carve their way through the back of the field SO many times. Have you ever seen any one of them waving their hands because they had some difficulty passing another driver?
Yes. Last year Kimi was stuck behind other drivers the whole race at Monaco, unable to do anything. Did he behave like a jerk? No.

[wedge]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmRJhvHTQnA&feature=related

[ArrowsFA1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvJxP16v0Jg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC54yqnk03g&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9guYmMsS_0I&feature=related

[Mickey T]

really, guys.

who cares?

not the first F1 driver to do it and won't be the last.

pro or not, it IS incredibly frustrating being stuck behind a slower car in a race, whether you're fighting for position or lapping someone.

doesn't make it right or wrong. just human.

anybody here not flipped the bird?

didn't think so...

[ArrowsFA1]

really, guys.

who cares?

not the first F1 driver to do it and won't be the last.
Exactly :up: It is quite funny though to see the criticism of Hamilton alongside (for example) the claim that Kimi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvJxP16v0Jg&feature=related) is above this sort of thing :laugh:

[ShiftingGears]

I always laugh seeing Alonso giving Ralf the finger while his car is travelling backwards towards the Monaco chicane :p :

[ioan]

Exactly :up: It is quite funny though to see the criticism of Hamilton alongside (for example) the claim that Kimi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvJxP16v0Jg&feature=related) is above this sort of thing :laugh:

Who said Kimi is above this?

As for the links some of you provided, it makes little difference. If others do it it doesn't make any more civilized than it is (or better it isn't).

Anyway it was nice to see that he needed several laps to pass Sato in a 2 years old machine and again several laps to pass Fisi in a Force India.

Show the finger to those whom he was fighting is all about respecting his competitors!
But hey, who would expect Hamilton to respect those he calls "monkeys".

[CaptainRaiden]

Exactly :up: It is quite funny though to see the criticism of Hamilton alongside (for example) the claim that Kimi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvJxP16v0Jg&feature=related) is above this sort of thing :laugh:

That's not the point. I don't think anybody is actually getting what's wrong here. It's just a display of what I call arrogance. Those drivers ahead of Lewis didn't block or chop in his way, they just kept their line. No aggressive moves whatsoever to earn any hand gestures from THE ONE while he was zooming past them on the straights. I find it hard to fathom that some people think this kind of arrogance is alright. Are Sato and Fisi not allowed to defend their position in Hamilton's books?

All those videos you posted were incidents where the driver ahead blocked or chopped in some way and impeded them during practice or qualifying. Compared to them, how much was Lewis blocked "dangerously" really? Can't you see the difference?

[wedge]

So it's OK for Fisi or Sato for blocking and/or to hold up cars but if it was Hamilton or Schumi it would be considered dirty driving :rolleyes:

[ioan]

So it's OK for Fisi or Sato for blocking and/or to hold up cars ...

They were racing for position, that's what they do in F1.

[Tazio]

That's not the point. I don't think anybody is actually getting what's wrong here. It's just a display of what I call arrogance. Those drivers ahead of Lewis didn't block or chop in his way, they just kept their line. No aggressive moves whatsoever to earn any hand gestures from THE ONE while he was zooming past them on the straights. I find it hard to fathom that some people think this kind of arrogance is alright. Are Sato and Fisi not allowed to defend their position in Hamilton's books?

All those videos you posted were incidents where the driver ahead blocked or chopped in some way and impeded them during practice or qualifying. Compared to them, how much was Lewis blocked "dangerously" really? Can't you see the difference?You’re wasting your time!
When people don't see that you are not only disrespecting a driver, but the etiquette of the sport. The discussion has devolved down to partisan bickering.
There is a difference between alonso looking silly waving his arms around in the air trying to get a backmarkers attention, because he thinks that the backmarker should have his (Fred’s) delta calculated and get out of the way at the optimum moment. To Fred turning into Freddie Kreuger and letting his ego and his arrogance rule his behavior. You will never look at racing objectively There I said it. Its called being honest. If you can't accept criticism of your guy you have no right criticizing anyone else's! That is unless your driver is perfect!-------- Like Sponge Bob! :p :

[ArrowsFA1]

Who said Kimi is above this?

Last year Kimi was stuck behind other drivers the whole race at Monaco, unable to do anything. Did he behave like a jerk? No.

Show the finger to those whom he was fighting is all about respecting his competitors!
But hey, who would expect Hamilton to respect those he calls "monkeys".
ioan, you are taking a split second of frustration expressed by Hamilton and blowing it up out of all proportion. This "incident" is simply being used to bash Hamilton yet again.

[F1boat]

There are too many accidents with this kid, Arrows. He compared himself to Senna last year. With such attitude, he can expect to be bashed.
I am not at all surprised by his attitude, BTW. That what he does, he is that type of person, at least while racing.

[Zico]

There are too many accidents with this kid

Dont you mean incidents?

This week we've had opinions that he should be punished by the FIA for speeding.. and now this.. just because he flicked the bird.

These so called "incidents" are nothing.. not even worth talking about. I think its more to do with an intense hatred for him because of the Alonso rift last year. Alonso shouldnt have signed for McLaren without having No1 driver & telemetry/set-up secrecy agreements written into his contract. (which they wouldnt have agreed to, and so he shouldnt have gone there)

We dont get this team or driver bashing on the WRC forum. Maybe its the F1 "circus" aspect that some of you seem to get caught up in. Either that or its just to get a rise out of McLaren/Lewis fans.. which I find pretty sad.

[truefan72]

Dont you mean incidents?

This week we've had opinions that he should be punished by the FIA for speeding.. and now this.. just because he flicked the bird.

These so called "incidents" are nothing.. not even worth talking about. I think its more to do with an intense hatred for him because of the Alonso rift last year. Alonso shouldnt have signed for McLaren without having No1 driver & telemetry/set-up secrecy agreements written into his contract. (which they wouldnt have agreed to, and so he shouldnt have gone there)

We dont get this team or driver bashing on the WRC forum. Maybe its the F1 "circus" aspect that some of you seem to get caught up in. Either that or its just to get a rise out of McLaren/Lewis fans.. which I find pretty sad.


or it is something much deeper...

time for a few to start asking themsleves the honest questions

i remember the same kind of dismissivness and animosity to his success when Tiger woods entered the pga. It seems people are unwilling or unable to embrace young, extremely talented and poised of greatness sportsmen who happen to break down certain barriers. There is some healousy, contempt and most of all a need to hold themto a higher standard than most of their competitors.

As I said, you gotta be twice as good to get half the respect in some circles.

[Tazio]

or it is something much deeper...

time for a few to start asking themsleves the honest questions

i remember the same kind of dismissivness and animosity to his success when Tiger woods entered the pga. It seems people are unwilling or unable to embrace young, extremely talented and poised of greatness sportsmen who happen to break down certain barriers. There is some healousy, contempt and most of all a need to hold themto a higher standard than most of their competitors.

As I said, you gotta be twice as good to get half the respect in some circles.The traffic ticket thread never should have even gotten started.
Bashers embraced it

This complaint is a legitamate one.
Sometimes young drivers may not figure this out if they're never running
behind slower cars. So someone points it out.
Situation, plain, and simple.
Playing the race card here?
Nonsense!

[Zico]

or it is something much deeper...

time for a few to start asking themsleves the honest questions

i remember the same kind of dismissivness and animosity to his success when Tiger woods entered the pga. It seems people are unwilling or unable to embrace young, extremely talented and poised of greatness sportsmen who happen to break down certain barriers. There is some healousy, contempt and most of all a need to hold themto a higher standard than most of their competitors.

As I said, you gotta be twice as good to get half the respect in some circles.

I didnt want to say it, but now you have.. so, yeah, I think there could well be an element of that (from some at least), sadly...

[PSfan]

or it is something much deeper...

time for a few to start asking themsleves the honest questions

i remember the same kind of dismissivness and animosity to his success when Tiger woods entered the pga. It seems people are unwilling or unable to embrace young, extremely talented and poised of greatness sportsmen who happen to break down certain barriers. There is some healousy, contempt and most of all a need to hold themto a higher standard than most of their competitors.

As I said, you gotta be twice as good to get half the respect in some circles.

Complete and utter BS...

Do you recall the phrase "Midget witht he Digit" ???

Once Massa gave I believe DC the finger... We discussed that then... this is no different... (maybe the circumstances, can't recall if Massa and Coulthard where racing for position or not...)

People aren't bashing Hamilton only because he's Hamilton, or because of his race... Please inform of as to the last driver in the span of 2 race weekends, Hogged the racing line during qualifying, plowed into the back of another car, and flipped off 2 drivers for mearly racing him?

As far as I'm aware, Tiger is not a race driver (unless he and hamilton have a go on public streets every now and then)

[CaptainRaiden]

or it is something much deeper...

time for a few to start asking themsleves the honest questions

i remember the same kind of dismissivness and animosity to his success when Tiger woods entered the pga. It seems people are unwilling or unable to embrace young, extremely talented and poised of greatness sportsmen who happen to break down certain barriers. There is some healousy, contempt and most of all a need to hold themto a higher standard than most of their competitors.

As I said, you gotta be twice as good to get half the respect in some circles.

What the ....? That is totally uncalled for and unnecessary. Why do we have to include race or a person's color in EVERY little thing? I am an Indian and even darker than Lewis himself. Mclaren is my favorite team and I do NOT hate Lewis. Can't I speak out if I'm not happy with a little display of arrogance? It doesn't matter if it's Lewis or any other person.

Tazio, you were right. This is such a wastage of time. This thread is going from worse to disgraceful. Accusing people of being racists for criticizing a driver's arrogant antics is pathetic IMHO.

[Dzeidzei]

You’re wasting your time!
When people don't see that you are not only disrespecting a driver, but the etiquette of the sport. The discussion has devolved down to partisan bickering.

I think you miss a huge part of the point. Drivers get frustrated for making mistakes, for their engine blowing away (remember Kimi with Merc), for lapped guys not to pay attention etc. Sometimes some of them react wiht a gesture thats not all the politically correct. So what, its not a big deal.

Id say its a lot more disrespecting a fellow driver, if youre being lapped and ignore the blue flags. Thats disrespectful cause youre possibly ruining the other guys race.

That said, Lewis was racing for position, so there was no call for the finger. He would have been better off if he stopped moaning and just got past the ther guys. If he had it, that is.

[Easy Drifter]

The one and two finger salute have been around forever. I remember Fangio, Moss and even Clark using them. Phsyc. warfare if done right.

[wmcot]

I repeat - it is a hand gesture. So what?!

It's being shown to a worldwide audience with people from many different cultures.

Try sitting next to your young son or daughter and answer them when they as, "Why is Lewis doing that?"

Not necessarily the example we want the world to see - it's expected in NASCAR, not F1...

[Tazio]

I think you miss a huge part of the point. Drivers get frustrated for making mistakes, for their engine blowing away (remember Kimi with Merc), for lapped guys not to pay attention etc. Sometimes some of them react wiht a gesture thats not all the politically correct. So what, its not a big deal.. :confused:


Id say its a lot more disrespecting a fellow driver, if youre being lapped and ignore the blue flags. Thats disrespectful cause youre possibly ruining the other guys race.
No arguement there!


That said, Lewis was racing for position, so there was no call for the finger. He would have been better off if he stopped moaning and just got past the ther guys. If he had it, that is.
You and I are in total agreement! Why do others find this so hard to understand?

[I am evil Homer]

There are too many accidents with this kid, Arrows. He compared himself to Senna last year. With such attitude, he can expect to be bashed.
I am not at all surprised by his attitude, BTW. That what he does, he is that type of person, at least while racing.

I'm not a massive Hamilton fan but i'm gonna pull you up on this. It Ayrton Senna's sister who said that Haimlton "reminded her" of her brother, not Lewis who said it.

So if your going to assinate someone's chracter at least do it with facts not blind prejudice - you don't at all the "type of person" Hamilton is as you only see him for a few hours every other weekend so to assume he has an "attitude" is as best ill informed and at worst plain wrong.

[leopard]

Barrack H Obama's wife should have said it too :p : :)

[Tazio]

Barrack H Obama's wife should have said it too :p : :)

:laugh: :rotflmao: :laugh:

[ioan]

ioan, you are taking a split second of frustration expressed by Hamilton and blowing it up out of all proportion. This "incident" is simply being used to bash Hamilton yet again.

There are people who kill because of a split second frustration, does that make it acceptable?! :rolleyes:

[Zico]

There are people who kill because of a split second frustration, does that make it acceptable?! :rolleyes:

Comparing flicking the bird to murder... :laugh:

Geez!

[F1boat]

I'm not a massive Hamilton fan but i'm gonna pull you up on this. It Ayrton Senna's sister who said that Haimlton "reminded her" of her brother, not Lewis who said it.

So if your going to assinate someone's chracter at least do it with facts not blind prejudice - you don't at all the "type of person" Hamilton is as you only see him for a few hours every other weekend so to assume he has an "attitude" is as best ill informed and at worst plain wrong.

I know about the sister, this is a different case. Hamilton has said that in qualy he is as good as Senna. I'd like if some member has the link.
About the character - he is a public persona and I care much more how he acts in front of the public then what Max does in his bed...

[OTA]

This is so funny. May be because the visual aspect of racing is getting more and more boring that people pick in other aspects to have a go at things.

In real life there is something that gives great pleasure after receiving a finger, and that's to give back two. jeje If only we could follow this high moral defenders as well as we see LH or FA...

God bless the fingers, and the f word while we are at it...

Cheers
David

[janneppi]

I know about the sister, this is a different case. Hamilton has said that in qualy he is as good as Senna. I'd like if some member has the link.


I really would like to a see a link for that comment.

[I am evil Homer]

Me too.

[Bagwan]

This is not about the gesture , but whether it was deserved .

It is about who gets the stick afterwards .

Clearly , Mike says , by saying he wasn't being lapped , he's saying Fisi didn't deserve the finger , reflecting it back upon the un-gentlemanly Lewis , quite deservedly .
The gesture , one or two fingered , is certainly condoned , but must be used sparingly , and only when warranted .

The dodgy lappee , or the erratic , dangerous driver , deserves the gesture , as he always has , but man behind looks more the goat , should he whip it out at a time inappropriate .

Lewis was frustrated at a spoiled race from the start .
He must remember that he holds no special rights to podium positions .

[markabilly]

This is so funny. May be because the visual aspect of racing is getting more and more boring that people pick in other aspects to have a go at things.

In real life there is something that gives great pleasure after receiving a finger, and that's to give back two. jeje If only we could follow this high moral defenders as well as we see LH or FA...

God bless the fingers, and the f word while we are at it...

Cheers
David
Racing?? What racing?

F1 is now mostly about getting in a place and then sticking to it and keeping others from passing you.

Hamilton just got confused, as he was so used to lapping fisi, that he never realized that he was actually trying to do a pass for a position.

Very understandable!!!!!

[woody2goody]

I know it's a strange suggestion, but because Davidson accidentally let him through, I wonder if that put into Lewis' head that he was lapping Taku and Fisi and not racing them?

Incidentally, even though the Super Aguris were fighting each other for position all through the race, they didn't half hold up some drivers. I think Kubica and Kimi got the worst of it at the time. I noticed no fist shaking from them, unlike Lewis and Fernando.

And anyway, Lewis doesn't HATE Fernando, they still got on ok in person last year but the conflict was made out to be personal when it was more of a sporting angle really.

[Tazio]

I know it's a strange suggestion, but because Davidson accidentally let him through, I wonder if that put into Lewis' head that he was lapping Taku and Fisi and not racing them?. Woody, that's funny! No offence, but that is really funny! :rotflmao:
If Hamilton was so confused as to his position on the track.
I think whomever he was communicating with on his radio would have to be really drunk
:beer: :confused:
to not keep Lewis informed of his position. I don't think this one episode
where a frustrated Hamilton behaved outside the bounds of propriety will define his career.
Non-partisan observers of the events recognize them for what they were.
It's not that big a deal in the big picture. Events have been documented.
It's time to move on IMO

[markabilly]

Woody, that's funny! No offence, but that is really funny! :rotflmao:
If Hamilton was so confused as to his position on the track.
I think whomever he was communicating with on his radio would have to be really drunk
:beer: :confused:
to not keep Lewis informed of his position. I don't think this one episode
where a frustrated Hamilton behaved outside the bounds of propriety will define his career.
Non-partisan observers of the events recognize them for what they were.
It's not that big a deal in the big picture. Events have been documented.
It's time to move on IMO
It was the kool aid, cause everyone on da stuff would know that Mac and hamster dont run behind no Sato nor fisi (as in Fis-HE, as said by david Hobbs)

Time to move on? No we got atleast a hundred posts to go here....you just are always trying to be closing down threads just as they get good and boring....

[CNR]

let's just call it road rage (track rage)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_rage_(phenomenon)

It can be thought of as an extreme case of aggressive driving (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggressive_driving). It is caused primarily, but not exclusively, by overcrowding on (inadequate road systems that were not designed for modern levels of traffic) edit geting stuck behind slower cars on a race track or one thinking he is a god and all should move out of his way .

[Tazio]

I'd perfer to call it what it is. Comparing what the worlds greatest racing drivers do on the track to to frustrated commuters is naive, and simplistic at best!

[jso1985]

let's just call it road rage (track rage)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_rage_(phenomenon)

"The Simpons" always have the solution for everything:

So what Lewis needs to do is:
- Pick up a fight with someone dumber/weaker than him
- Shoot at something
- Write a threatning letter to someone famous(preferably Mosley)
so he can leave his rage were it belongs, the paddock!

:p

[Big Ben]

There are people who kill because of a split second frustration, does that make it acceptable?! :rolleyes:

maybe they should put him in jail just in case

[Tazio]

Two more former F1 drivers expess their General disaproval. Feel free to express your your reasons, and conspiracy theories as to why these two would attack Hamilton for any other reasons than that which they state:

Heidfeld better than 'disrespectful' Hamilton.
http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/161926-0/heidfeld_better_than_disrespectful_hamilton.html

It was just fitting that Hamilton treated Alonso with a little more respect,” the French-Canadian told the Gulf Times as he made his second appearance in the Middle Eastern Speedcar series in Dubai, adding that he believed the dispute between the pair had been ‘in bad taste'. “I always held [Schumacher] in respect, so I didn't like that sort of treatment; it was very disappointing to see it in the open.

“I was there to learn [in 1996, his own rookie year in F1 alongside Damon Hill] and I wanted to learn, something that Hamilton did not show last season being in the company of a two-time world champion.”

Frentzen, meanwhile, who partnered Villeneuve at the multiple championship-winning Grove-based outfit in 1997 and 1998 – supporting the now 37-year-old to the world title in the former – joined in the criticism of Hamilton, insisting that he would bet money that his countryman Nick Heidfeld would gain the upper hand over the Stevenage ace in the years to come.

[Dave B]

yawn

another LH bashing session here

no surprise

even if he were a saint, I'm sure som would find reasons to expouse they frustration.
Exactly. If he walked on water there'd be a thread called "Hamilton can't swim" :dozey:

[Knock-on]

Exactly. If he walked on water there'd be a thread called "Hamilton can't swim" :dozey:

PML

"Hamilton shows disrespect for water" claims "has been" driver. "He should have fallen in and drowned like a normal person" :D

When you have people like Tazio quoting JV as the font of all knowledge, it warms the cockles of my heart. The more people bash him, the more is demonstrates just how worried they are.

I love it :laugh:

[Tazio]

PML

"Hamilton shows disrespect for water" claims "has been" driver. "He should have fallen in and drowned like a normal person" :D

When you have people like Tazio quoting JV as the font of all knowledge, it warms the cockles of my heart. The more people bash him, the more is demonstrates just how worried they are.

I love it :laugh: JV one WDC. LH zero.
This isn't about worring. Hamilton isn't in a car
capable of winning the WDC!

[PSfan]

PML

Bladder control problems? If hell freezes over and I ever find myself on the "Hamilton" bus, I'll be sure to be carefull who I set next to :p :



When you have people like Tazio quoting JV as the font of all knowledge, it warms the cockles of my heart. The more people bash him, the more is demonstrates just how worried they are.

I love it :laugh:

When someone post something of this caliber, it also gives me that warm fuzzy feeling... I get it everytime I know for certain that I am right!!! :)

Tazio was just referencing an article, quoting 2 drivers not just one, guess you hadn't noticed, or choose not to read the whole article

I also was gonna question the validity of it in this thread because it had nothing to do with hand gestures, but then on further thinking, it is all about the respect, or lack of, where LH is concerned...

The Schumi chop, not a member of the drivers safety thing, his safety car and qualifying antics, flipping off the undeserving, risking public safety all point to a lack of respect, and I don't care who points this out, doesn't change the facts... Hamiltons action clearly point that he is only concerned about 1 person... What would the podium celebration's looked like had Rosbergs and Hamilton's positions been reversed? I can almost positive that they wouldn't have acted like a bunch of school girls who just gotten backstage passed to a justin timberlake concert... If Kovy happens to be ahead of Hamilton after halfway threw the season? You you bet against LH doing everything he can to stepon, over and ahead of his team-mate? I wouldn't...

LH clearly shows a lack of respect, I hope that if he ever loses control of his car at 200kmh and kills someone as a result, I hope your his defence attourney, would make for an interesting trial :)


Another "LH bashing thread" is the common response to his faithfull, forgeting that he is not the first to be critized for these forms of actions, just Hamilton seems to be an attention hog, and makes sure he is in the press regularly... maybe afraid of being the next Button....

[truefan72]

PML

"Hamilton shows disrespect for water" claims "has been" driver. "He should have fallen in and drowned like a normal person" :D

When you have people like Tazio quoting JV as the font of all knowledge, it warms the cockles of my heart. The more people bash him, the more is demonstrates just how worried they are.

I love it :laugh:

good one ;)

[gloomyDAY]

PML

"Hamilton shows disrespect for water" claims "has been" driver. "He should have fallen in and drowned like a normal person" :D

When you have people like Tazio quoting JV as the font of all knowledge, it warms the cockles of my heart. The more people bash him, the more is demonstrates just how worried they are.

I love it :laugh: Nice! :D

Barcelona will be the deciding factor.
Whoever wins that race will be able to finger, I mean, give the finger to anyone.

[wmcot]

This is not about the gesture , but whether it was deserved .

I disagree! It is about the gesture no matter which driver is giving it - LH, FA, DC, etc. It is meant to be an offensive gesture, there is no denying that. Things are made worse because it is broadcast to a worldwide audience. The sponsors (many whose names are visible in the same shot while giving the finger) can't be too happy about that! RD should be concerned about his sponsors.

To give a more local example, suppose you are in heavy traffic and for whatever reason the guy next to you gives you the finger. You notice his company's logo on the side of his truck. How do you feel about that company at that moment?

All drivers should be banned from making obscene gestures. A simple shaken fist would get the point across that you are angry and would be less offensive.

As I stated before, you are being viewed on a large screen in front of an audience that consists of numerous cultures. Is that the message you want to send them about the level of maturity and sportsmanship in your sport?

[ArrowsFA1]

Why is this such an issue now? Drivers have been making gestures like this for years and yet suddenly, when Lewis Hamilton does it, there is outrage among some :dozey:

It's funny that Frentzen should chirp in on the subject. Has he forgotten this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC54yqnk03g)? :laugh:

[OTA]

To solve this sponsors should put their money into sunday religious services.

These are men or women( have to be politically correct) at tension, with emotions runing at their peak. I think drivers in a race should be worried about fuel, tires, oponents, strategies and stuff like. That's the very reason why people watch them. On top of that, I'm a viewer and I enjoy a good finger, and I know as a fact that I'm not the only one. Formula one is life not what some would like to be life. You can't ban racers from being human.

Cheers
David

[Tazio]

You can't ban racers from being human.
Cheers
David
No!
Only expect them to use the one finger salute when it is called for!
Not during a fair fight for position on track. Capice?

[SGWilko]

To give a more local example, suppose you are in heavy traffic and for whatever reason the guy next to you gives you the finger. You notice his company's logo on the side of his truck. How do you feel about that company at that moment?

WTF? I expect the average trucker to behave like that. You ever had to suffer the language from these amoebae when havin the misfortune to sit in a motorway service station in close proximity to a bunch of truckers (no phoenetic pun intented)....

Still, if you were driving an F1 car, in the heat, frustated at cocking up, you'd just wind the window down and shout, 'I say, would you mind moving over old chap, I'm in rather a hurry'?

:dozey:

[OTA]

And I guess it would be .... who declares it appropiate.

Cheers
David

[Tazio]

And I guess it would be .... who declares it appropiate.

Cheers
David
It is never appropriate, or acceptable when in a fair fight for position on track.
It is acceptable, and deserved if you are a back marker holding up a car in the process of lapping you.
WTF! It doesn't take a genius to get this!

[OTA]

May be I'm not a genius, may be I'm stupid, may be FA and LH and all the others drivers are stupid. Should they be banned from F1 until they learn some manners or may be they should learn the manners with 5000€ fines each time they dare to take a finger out.

However, I'm a bit unconfortable with the concept that you are able to say what's fair and what's not in the head of a driver in the middle of a battle. May be afterwards a driver can come down and see things in another perspective, but in the heat of the battle... You can't put a person in that position and ask him to behave as if he wasn't there.

Cheers
David

[OTA]

May be I'm not a genius, may be I'm stupid, may be FA and LH and all the others drivers are stupid. Should they be banned from F1 until they learn some manners or may be they should learn the manners with 5000€ fines each time they dare to take a finger out.

However, I'm a bit unconfortable with the concept that you are able to say what's fair and what's not in the head of a driver in the middle of a battle. May be afterwards a driver can come down and see things in another perspective, but in the heat of the battle... You can't put a person in that position and ask him to behave as if he wasn't there.

Cheers
David

[PSfan]

It's funny that Frentzen should chirp in on the subject. Has he forgotten this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC54yqnk03g)? :laugh:

Interesting Vid, however it should be noted that The JV and Frentzen comments where probably made before Hamilton made his "gestures" and HHF is only commenting that he thinks Heidfeld will get the better of Lewis in the near future, was an interesting watch anyways...

But, with further details, that incident it seems that it would support Tazio's current stance: Frentzen running 2nd, with Herbert breathing down his neck in 3rd, being held up by Blundell who was running 7th (outside the points...)

Extended version here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2oDkH6Efbo&feature=related)

[ArrowsFA1]

Fair points PSfan but for me it's still a load of fuss over nothing :s mokin:

[Tomi]

Should they be banned from F1 until they learn some manners or may be they should learn the manners with 5000€ fines each time they dare to take a finger out.

No way, without the stupid drivers it would be difficult to see wich drivers are clever and good sportsmen.

[ioan]

PML

"Hamilton shows disrespect for water" claims "has been" driver. "He should have fallen in and drowned like a normal person" :D

When you have people like Tazio quoting JV as the font of all knowledge, it warms the cockles of my heart. The more people bash him, the more is demonstrates just how worried they are.

I love it :laugh:

Look who's talking! :rolleyes:

[ioan]

It's funny that Frentzen should chirp in on the subject. Has he forgotten this?
Interesting Vid, however it should be noted that The JV and Frentzen comments where probably made before Hamilton made his "gestures" and HHF is only commenting that he thinks Heidfeld will get the better of Lewis in the near future, was an interesting watch anyways...

But, with further details, that incident it seems that it would support Tazio's current stance: Frentzen running 2nd, with Herbert breathing down his neck in 3rd, being held up by Blundell who was running 7th (outside the points...)

Extended version here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2oDkH6Efbo&feature=related)

Thanks for the link! :up:
I was ready to bet that Arrows was taking things out of context in order to defend Hamilton while blaming someone else! :p :

[SGWilko]

Look who's talking! :rolleyes:

Cor, now that's an old film.

With J Travolta IMSMC? Wasn't so keen on the sequel though....

[SGWilko]

Thanks for the link! :up:
I was ready to bet that Arrows was taking things out of context in order to defend Hamilton while blaming someone else! :p :

Defend Lewis from what? You lot, don't make me laugh. A bunch of F1 wannabe's on a forum moaning about a hand gesture made in the heat of a race.

Strewth, he'd better hire bodyguards... :rolleyes:

[CaptainRaiden]

It is never appropriate, or acceptable when in a fair fight for position on track.
It is acceptable, and deserved if you are a back marker holding up a car in the process of lapping you.
WTF! It doesn't take a genius to get this!

I agree!!! I have been reading this thread and so far am astonished, bewildered and really confused as to why people are not getting the POINT of this???

It's not about IF he made hand gestures, it's about WHY he made those gestures!!?

Let me just give an example. I do professional karting myself, and I am in NO way comparing karting to Formula 1, but in the end they are both forms of racing. If I was trying to race for position and was stuck behind the 4th placed guy for three laps, I finally get past him on the straight. Now, would it be fair on my part to show him angry hand gestures?? Should he not have raced for position? Do I expect him to bend over and just let me go?

It's not about hand gestures, it's NOT about racism. It's about arrogance!!!!! Just how arrogant one has to be to make hand gestures at people whom he is racing for position, and NOT lapping???

We are talking about really simple and basic principles of racing and sportsmanship here, and it's against the sportsman spirit to make angry hand gestures at people who are just doing their friggin job!!!

[ArrowsFA1]

It's not about IF he made hand gestures, it's about WHY he made those gestures!!?
Do we know (not assume) why he made the gesture?

[OTA]

So you give your own example to show the audience what's right or wrong. Why, do you think that the rest of the forum have never been in a tense situation.
We are different and react different to things. To show a finger is not cheating, it's not putting someone in danger, it's just showing emotion, and there is as many ways of doing it as people in this planet. Not saying it's desirable or needed, all I'm saying is that it's harmless therefore let each one show emotions in his way.
Why is it that Muhamed Ali was one of the cockiest sportsmen in history, bashed his oponents in every way he could, yet he's regarded as one of the greats of all time.

Cheers
David

[Tomi]

Why is it that Muhamed Ali was one of the cockiest sportsmen in history, bashed his oponents in every way he could, yet he's regarded as one of the greats of all time.

Cheers
David

When he started his professional carreer the public opinion about him was much different than what it is now.

[OTA]

Exactly ,Tomi, time gives perspective to things. What may look unsporting at a certain moment, it's no more that a tiny detail in an athlete career. And drivers with a more "extravagant" way of showing emotions, might as well be the fairer, while others who are able to control their emotions might as well be sore characters with little interest in fairness or sporting values.
As I said, a finger is not cheating, is not putting the life or the result of others in danger, it's just showing emotion. It might be rude or politically incorrect, but some here scream for punishment in something that is really insignificant.

Cheers
David

[Tomi]

Exactly ,Tomi, time gives perspective to things. What may look unsporting at a certain moment, it's no more that a tiny detail in an athlete career. And drivers with a more "extravagant" way of showing emotions, might as well be the fairer, while others who are able to control their emotions might as well be sore characters with little interest in fairness or sporting values.
As I said, a finger is not cheating, is not putting the life or the result of others in danger, it's just showing emotion. It might be rude or politically incorrect, but some here scream for punishment in something that is really insignificant.

Cheers
David

Agree, I think it's much about how to handle emotions and maybe how to cope with pressure and expectations. In Hamiltons case maybe his "carreer bioraphy" was "written" a bit too early, they should maybe have waited a bit like they did with Ali.

In Hamiltons case maybe his "carreer bioraphy" was "written" a bit too early, they should maybe have waited a bit like they did with Ali.

Yes, they should....the chapter about why Hamilton refused to serve in Iraq will make the controversy about his move to Switzerland seem tame.

[OTA]

That's a whole different subject, a biography at 22 has to be incomplete by definition, unless the subject in question is no longer with us. However, if his way of dealing with pressure is to throw a finger here and there, is in my opinion very little to criticise the guy, and specially very little to diminish his position as a major sporting character. His China and Brazil shows have much more substance if you ask me.
Cheers
David

[ArrowsFA1]

In Hamiltons case maybe his "carreer bioraphy" was "written" a bit too early, they should maybe have waited a bit like they did with Ali.
The world now is a totally different place to 1960 when Ali made his mark on the sporting world by winning Olympic gold.

The world now is a totally different place to 1960 when Ali made his mark on the sporting world by winning Olympic gold.

Plus, unlike most sportsman, Ali was one of the symbols of the civil rights movement and anti-Vietnam movements.

Sometimes the times maketh the man.

[OTA]

I don't feel atheletes have any duty in being role models in anything else that being able to reach the top in their career. Civil liberties or any other political subject is their duty as much as ours and some people like to live it in an anonimous way and other don't.
I just don't beleive for a second that celebritie status gives you any more power to make a difference than the rest of us.
Cheers
David

[Tomi]

That's a whole different subject, a biography at 22 has to be incomplete by definition, unless the subject in question is no longer with us. However, if his way of dealing with pressure is to throw a finger here and there, is in my opinion very little to criticise the guy, and specially very little to diminish his position as a major sporting character. His China and Brazil shows have much more substance if you ask me.
Cheers
David
Actually I did not mean the book, more the opinion's and the predictions of the opinion automat's from the sport, Lauda, Stewart etc. creating too much hype around a guy who has won nothing yet, eccept a few races

[SGWilko]

Yes, they should....the chapter about why Hamilton refused to serve in Iraq will make the controversy about his move to Switzerland seem tame.

Hold it! Lets not get on the subject of Iraq, and whether or not the war there is in fact legal or not. All about that black runny stuff in the ground really, isn't it?

Anyway, I thought soldiers were better at fighting than race drivers.......

[CaptainRaiden]

Do we know (not assume) why he made the gesture?

What could he possibly make a hand gesture for, while racing other people for position? Especially after having a bit of a tough time trying to pass them and making a few minor errors on the way? Probably waving hi or saying thank you for letting him go? Isn't he such a sweet guy? :)

[ioan]

Do we know (not assume) why he made the gesture?

Cause his an arrogant ......, who can't race with the monkeys ?! :rolleyes:

[ioan]

The world now is a totally different place to 1960 when Ali made his mark on the sporting world by winning Olympic gold.

Hamilton didn't win the "Olympic gold" equivalent of F1 so he better keep his finger on the wheel while he tries hard.

[Bagwan]

I disagree! It is about the gesture no matter which driver is giving it - LH, FA, DC, etc. It is meant to be an offensive gesture, there is no denying that. Things are made worse because it is broadcast to a worldwide audience. The sponsors (many whose names are visible in the same shot while giving the finger) can't be too happy about that! RD should be concerned about his sponsors.

To give a more local example, suppose you are in heavy traffic and for whatever reason the guy next to you gives you the finger. You notice his company's logo on the side of his truck. How do you feel about that company at that moment?

All drivers should be banned from making obscene gestures. A simple shaken fist would get the point across that you are angry and would be less offensive.

As I stated before, you are being viewed on a large screen in front of an audience that consists of numerous cultures. Is that the message you want to send them about the level of maturity and sportsmanship in your sport?

Did you read what Mike said ?
He was only upset that Lewis had the finger out for someone he was racing , not lapping .
Your example dismisses why("for whatever reason") , and that would make a big difference as to whether or not I would be upset with the driver , or embarassed at the reasoning behind the finger .
Had I been a jerk on the road , I would except responsibility , and wave sorry back .
However , if the situation did not warrant the gesture , I would feel the same as I do about Hamilton's little snit .

Just like that truck driver , Hamilton is being judged on whether the gesture was warranted , not on the gesture itself .
Had Fisi been erratic or dangerous with his driving , or being lapped , we would be speaking of that , and the gesture would be forgotten in the conversation .

If Hamilton does this again , he'll take some serious stick for it , and the words "delusions of grandeur" will hit headline status .

[Tazio]

Because Ali knew he had to back everything he said up with his fists!
Which he did!

[Tazio]

Because Ali knew he had to back everything he said up with his fists!
Which he did!

Btw Ali was arrogant, and admitted it.
taken that, and all his accomplishments
Into consideration you have him. He is
not, and especially was not during his fighting
days universally loved. Just unmatched in accomplishments

[Garry Walker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvJxP16v0Jg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC54yqnk03g&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9guYmMsS_0I&feature=related

Context, context Watson.

If you stupidly block someone in free practise or force someone off the track compared to just driving for position without any crazy blocks, these are very different matters.


or it is something much deeper...

time for a few to start asking themsleves the honest questions

i remember the same kind of dismissivness and animosity to his success when Tiger woods entered the pga. It seems people are unwilling or unable to embrace young, extremely talented and poised of greatness sportsmen who happen to break down certain barriers. There is some healousy, contempt and most of all a need to hold themto a higher standard than most of their competitors.

As I said, you gotta be twice as good to get half the respect in some circles.

Really really pathetic comments.
Hamilton and Woods both have gained a huge amount of profit from their skin colour. But I guess their blackness means they are above criticism for some people.


What the ....? That is totally uncalled for and unnecessary. Why do we have to include race or a person's color in EVERY little thing? I am an Indian and even darker than Lewis himself. Mclaren is my favorite team and I do NOT hate Lewis. Can't I speak out if I'm not happy with a little display of arrogance? It doesn't matter if it's Lewis or any other person.

Tazio, you were right. This is such a wastage of time. This thread is going from worse to disgraceful. Accusing people of being racists for criticizing a driver's arrogant antics is pathetic IMHO.

These days, if you dare to make a negative comment about a non-white person, you will at once be labeled a racist by some people, it is the Modus Operandi of those idiots.

[SGWilko]

Context, context Watson.

If you stupidly block someone in free practise or force someone off the track compared to just driving for position without any crazy blocks, these are very different matters.



Really really pathetic comments.
Hamilton and Woods both have gained a huge amount of profit from their skin colour. But I guess their blackness means they are above criticism for some people.



These days, if you dare to make a negative comment about a non-white person, you will at once be labeled a racist by some people, it is the Modus Operandi of those idiots.

Blackness! Is that a new rock group or something? How can the two people you reference be making money becaus eof their skin colour?

So, Bill Gates got rich 'cause he's white? :laugh:

Do me a favour.

Does anyone really care if an F1 driver is blue, pink, green or black as noobies knocker?

I really struggle to rationalsie the hoo haa a banal gesture of the hand has caused.....it borders on the pathetic.

Move along, no doubt another driver will make a similar gesture soon, then you can all get agitated over again.

[Tomi]

Does anyone really care if an F1 driver is blue, pink, green or black as noobies knocker?

exactly, who cares, main thing is that they can drive.

[AJP]

Hamilton didn't win the "Olympic gold" equivalent of F1 so he better keep his finger on the wheel while he tries hard.

Get off your high horse ioan...
he gave him the finger for what ever reason...
in the grand scheme of things....so bloody what !

[wmcot]

Did you read what Mike said ?
He was only upset that Lewis had the finger out for someone he was racing , not lapping .
Your example dismisses why("for whatever reason") , and that would make a big difference as to whether or not I would be upset with the driver , or embarassed at the reasoning behind the finger .
Had I been a jerk on the road , I would except responsibility , and wave sorry back .
However , if the situation did not warrant the gesture , I would feel the same as I do about Hamilton's little snit .

Just like that truck driver , Hamilton is being judged on whether the gesture was warranted , not on the gesture itself .
Had Fisi been erratic or dangerous with his driving , or being lapped , we would be speaking of that , and the gesture would be forgotten in the conversation .

If Hamilton does this again , he'll take some serious stick for it , and the words "delusions of grandeur" will hit headline status .

My point is that an obscene gesture is never appropriate or professional! I've done it on occasion and I feel like a real idiot afterward. I can imagine how much worse I would feel if I wasn't alone, but being broadcast to millions of homes around the world!

There are better ways to express frustration. Giving the finger to express frustration is analogous to the saying about the man who uses profanity - He only uses those words because he can't think of anything more intelligent to say!

By the way, my comments do not apply just to Lewis or just to this incident. They apply equally to all drivers and further, to anyone who is in the public eye.

[ioan]

Get off your high horse ioan...

Why should I?
For your info I never use the finger gesture so many seem to appreciate around here. Because it is rude and a civilized person should not resort to it.
Maybe in your part of the world this is considered already as part of the so called "culture", however on this part it is plain rude.



He gave him the finger for what ever reason...


And that is the 2nd part of the problem, as there was no obvious reason.
If he was being obscene because his own frustration than he is even lower than I ever thought before about him.


in the grand scheme of things....so bloody what !

Yeah, so many little things happen in the grand scheme of things that people consider like your "so bloody what". Well maybe some people do not ignore everything just because it's done by their fave sportsmen or pet.

[ioan]

My point is that an obscene gesture is never appropriate or professional! I've done it on occasion and I feel like a real idiot afterward. I can imagine how much worse I would feel if I wasn't alone, but being broadcast to millions of homes around the world!

There are better ways to express frustration. Giving the finger to express frustration is analogous to the saying about the man who uses profanity - He only uses those words because he can't think of anything more intelligent to say!

By the way, my comments do not apply just to Lewis or just to this incident. They apply equally to all drivers and further, to anyone who is in the public eye.

I completely agree.

[AJP]

Why should I?
For your info I never use the finger gesture so many seem to appreciate around here. Because it is rude and a civilized person should not resort to it.
Maybe in your part of the world this is considered already as part of the so called "culture", however on this part it is plain rude.



And that is the 2nd part of the problem, as there was no obvious reason.
If he was being obscene because his own frustration than he is even lower than I ever thought before about him.



Yeah, so many little things happen in the grand scheme of things that people consider like your "so bloody what". Well maybe some people do not ignore everything just because it's done by their fave sportsmen or pet.
As I said before...Get off your high horse...
now your going to tell me that your "pet" M.Schumacher never once raised his hand to another driver...

get over yourself ioan..

[ShiftingGears]

Most anally retentive thread of the '08 season!

[ArrowsFA1]

There are better ways to express frustration.
That's very easy for us armchair viewers to say.

[janneppi]

I think this thread is about done. Good job, 7 pages of someone flicking a finger in a car race two weeks ago.