Brake test ? [merged]

[seppefan]

Have not seen this mentioned anywhere but unable to see the race i was later told that Alonso brake tested hamilton. Is that correct ?

[Phoenix]

Have not seen this mentioned anywhere but unable to see the race i was later told that Alonso brake tested hamilton. Is that correct ?

No brake test. Lewis takes the blame for having a problem avoiding the car in front.

[Zico]

It was suggested as such by the commentators.. and apparantly in the McLaren garage.. didnt look like he braked to me tho, maybe could/should have been giving more throttle.. but wouldnt call it a brake test personally.

[Dave B]

The stewards decided no investigation was necessary, and Hamilton admitted culpability.

Move on, nothing to see here.

[F1boat]

Yes, Alonso used also dreaded dark magic to curse poor Hamilton...

[AndySpeed]

I was surprised at how much of a better exit Hamilton got. However Renault apparently released telemetry showing that Fernando was flat so there's really no finger wagging required.

I suspect Lewis knew that it was Alonso in front and didn't have quite the same head on as normal when it came to overtaking him.

[Dave B]

When asked about the speculation of a brake test, Alonso said: "Well, Pat Symonds told me now that rumour, and he has printed now the data to show everybody. It is totally rubbish, but what can I do?"

Autosport.com has seen the telemetry data of Alonso's exit from the first corner, and it shows that the Spaniard was flat on the throttle from the exit, did not touch the brake and gained speed in a totally predictable manner.

Symonds, who is Renault's executive director of engineering, said that Alonso had done nothing to contribute to the accident.

"Fernando was coming out of the turn and accelerating down the straight," explained Symonds. "He reached fifth gear, at 227km/h, on full throttle, no touching of the brakes or anything like that. And you can see on the accelerometer the impact. He got hit from behind.

"I think all I can say from our side is that there is no blame attributable to Fernando, which is what some of the speculation might be. But it does say we are not getting onto the straights very well, we are suffering a bit with traction, engine speed and engine torque."

When asked about the view of some experts in the paddock who believed it could have been a brake test, Symonds said: "Well, they are not as expert as they think then. We have the data and there is nothing untoward there. You don't need to be an expert to see that."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66448

[PSfan]

I was surprised at how much of a better exit Hamilton got. However Renault apparently released telemetry showing that Fernando was flat so there's really no finger wagging required.



Well I guess its obvious then... Hamilton is using some form of TC...Got a better exit of the corner because of it, and simply lost focus and rammed Alonso... :p :

[tinchote]

I guess it is well-known that I'm no Alonso fan, but I cannot really see any blame here. Had he lifted, they would have crashed, not just touched.

The interesting thing is that with Hamilton having such a better exit, he would have probably passed him easily :mark:

[donKey jote]

Mr Magoo where are you ? :wave: :laugh:
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[CNR]

telemetry data of Alonso's exit from the first corner, and it shows that the Spaniard was flat on the throttle from the exit, did not touch the brake and gained speed in a totally predictable manner.


should lewis be given a penalty ?

if alonso was going at full speed and was hit from behind by lewis is it the other way around did lewis try to take alonso out.

if not i think lewis should be given a penalty for reckless driving.

[tinchote]

should lewis be given a penalty ?

if alonso was going at full speed and was hit from behind by lewis is it the other way around did lewis try to take alonso out.

if not i think lewis should be given a penalty for reckless driving.

He lost every chance in the race. That looks like enough punishment to me.

[wedge]

Lewis deserves a bit of credit. It's not every race in F1 where a driver admits it his fault.

[Zico]

should lewis be given a penalty ?

if alonso was going at full speed and was hit from behind by lewis is it the other way around did lewis try to take alonso out.


Why would Lewis want to hit Alonso from behind when he has far more to loose? besides the fact that the front of the car is far more fragile than the rear.
You havent thought this one through have you?

[ShiftingGears]

Lewis deserves a bit of credit. It's not every race in F1 where a driver admits it his fault.

Kudos to him for doing so. Definitely his worst ever race, however!

[leopard]

Yes, Alonso used also dreaded dark magic to curse poor Hamilton... Yeah, magic is something related to darkness, if not it's purely karma ;)

[woody2goody]

At first I thought it was Hamilton's fault, but after seeing it again I think both men are blameless. It seemed that they just both went to the right at the same time.

Alonso seemed to have bad traction all weekend, and maybe he anticipated a move from Hamilton, but a bit further down the track, so went to defend but Lewis was already going there himself.

Maybe Lewis wasn't sharp enough to avoid the Renault and Fernando was a bit careless but it didn't look like a brake test to me. Lewis wouldn't have been in that position if he had made a better start so he made the situation for himself anyway.

[leopard]

Small tip for LH, make a good start and never ever drive around FA if he doesn't want his dream falling down.

DC had experienced the same when his fast McLaren trying to overtake Renault last 3-4 years. The difference DC took the accident himself, didn't hit the car in front.

[wmcot]

Pretty tough to blame Alonso when Lewis is admitting it's his fault...

[Kevincal]

It's hilarious it's even been mentioned that it's in any way Alonso's fault. It was clear as day on tv that Lewis just plain ran up the back of him. He tried to get too much of a draft before attempting the pass.

[leopard]

FA might laugh at that admission, last year he denied that McLaren favored him to win.

It's just easier to make excuse towards something visible at the track. :D

[osg]

Geez... i've just watched it 2 or 3 times, and i can see no real evidence of Fernando making any big movements right........ Lewis just ploughed up the back of him.

Anyways, Lewis has admitted his error, so this thread is pointless really.

[Daniel]

The stewards decided no investigation was necessary, and Hamilton admitted culpability.

Move on, nothing to see here.

Where's the fun in that? I love it how they made a story of it on ITV without Lewis even having spoken a word on the topic. Of course McLaren piped up about it but they are bound to aren't they?

[ten-tenths]

crashes during practice...
muffed start to open the GP....
mounting alonso's gearbox...

no real criticism from the media...

the guy can walk on water i tell ya!

[Daniel]

crashes during practice...
muffed start to open the GP....
mounting alonso's gearbox...

no real criticism from the media...

the guy can walk on water i tell ya!
Now I don't really like Lewis as a driver but that's utter rubbish. Everyone in the media and on the forum need to chill out a bit. It's one race :crazy: Massa was apparently getting fired after 2 bad races and now he's won one. Lewis has had ONE bad race out of three. No one is perfect and even the best drivers aren't perfect. I think Sebastien Loeb is about as perfect as they come and even he makes mistakes. Somehow the media seem to project the idea that the best drivers are perfect when in fact they're not perfect at all.......

[ten-tenths]

Now I don't really like Lewis as a driver but that's utter rubbish. Everyone in the media and on the forum need to chill out a bit. It's one race :crazy: Massa was apparently getting fired after 2 bad races and now he's won one. Lewis has had ONE bad race out of three. No one is perfect and even the best drivers aren't perfect. I think Sebastien Loeb is about as perfect as they come and even he makes mistakes. Somehow the media seem to project the idea that the best drivers are perfect when in fact they're not perfect at all.......

wow how is that rubbish? you just helped me prove my point. if it was massa he would have been crucified. the fact of the matter is the media LOVES hamilton.

[Daniel]

wow how is that rubbish? you just helped me prove my point. if it was massa he would have been crucified. the fact of the matter is the media LOVES hamilton.
Not really......

Massa didn't deserve criticism but got it. Lewis doesn't deserve criticism and didn't get it. Doesn't prove anything about Lewis really..... more about Massa and what the media think of him.

[ten-tenths]

Not really......

Massa didn't deserve criticism but got it. Lewis doesn't deserve criticism and didn't get it. Doesn't prove anything about Lewis really..... more about Massa and what the media think of him.


really...

so the media is biased? :)

[Daniel]

really...

so the media is biased? :)
No. Never :laugh:

[Azumanga Davo]

It seemed very odd to me as to where and when the two cars got close.

Another one for the X-Files. ;) (Aliens I tell you...)

[ioan]

Not really......

Massa didn't deserve criticism but got it. Lewis doesn't deserve criticism and didn't get it. Doesn't prove anything about Lewis really..... more about Massa and what the media think of him.

No, no, more about how shi!ty the media rae these days. Honestly almost all they write is rubbish! Nowadays you almost need to be a genius to be able to find the good columns.

After all, no news is as good as bad news!

[Garry Walker]

Lewis deserves a bit of credit. It's not every race in F1 where a driver admits it his fault.

Most of the time drivers admit their mistakes, especially if it is as obvious as Lewis` situation was.
I am surprised some people have been promoting the guess that Alonso braketested Hamilton. How stupid do you have to be to actually fall for that?

[wedge]

I am surprised some people have been promoting the guess that Alonso braketested Hamilton. How stupid do you have to be to actually fall for that?


Is that during or after the race? If it was the latter then I would agree with you.

[ShiftingGears]

How stupid do you have to be to actually fall for that?

Not stupid at all, given that Alonso has done irrational moves like that before, and the unusual difference in speed between the two cars.

[wedge]

Not stupid at all, given that Alonso has done irrational moves like that before, and the unusual difference in speed between the two cars.

What some people failed to see a couple of weeks ago was that FA did a cheeky squeeze on the pit straight as he was side by side with a BMW (NH??).

Didn't see that mentioned on the forum.

If that was Schumi most people would've called that 'dirty driving'

[Knock-on]

Well, initially I suspected that Freddy may have lifted but it seems that Lewis failed to appreciate just how slow he was out of the corner.

Lewis's fault but a racing incident I think.

[Robinho]

at forst sight it seemed like a strange circumstance, andwith the protaganists having some history i wasn't surprised by the thoughts, especially as there was obviously quite a speed differential at the point of impact, and then they decided to only show onebrief replay during the race that only compounded the mystery.

however, to me it looks obvious that Alonso was off line during the previous chicance (presumabley defending his line into turn 1 contriubuted to this) and as a result Lewis got a fantastic run on him out of the chicane.

from that position he should have cruised alongside and executed an easy pass into the next turn, but Alonso started to move accross to cover the line a little (fairly) and Lewis seems not to have reacted, picked up the drive and the draft and cruised into the back wheel.

i'm glad he took responsibility before a witch hunt was taken up against Alonso, although it was not a complete impossibility that a slight lift could have contributed, i'm glad that in this case it wasn't the case.

i was also surprised to read that Lewis said it was his fault for teh start, didn't see about that until this morning, and assumed that as it was such an atrocious get away that there had been some sort of problem, which of course there was, but it was down to Lewis not pressing the right button at the right time - from there on in i thought he looked a little impatient, like the red mist had descended and in his haste he made a further mistake (not unlike the first lap in Brazil last year)

i hope he can improve this trait and channel that agression a little more effectively

[truefan72]

So I've looked at this video 10-15 times and the more I see it the more it looks like Alonso moved aggressively into Hamilton Line to defend his position and thereby ( by his lack of speed, deliberate or not) simply caused Hamilton to run into the back of his car

http://ballhype.com/video/gp_de_bahrein_choque_de_hamilton_contra_alonso/

I see Alonso coming off the corner on the ideal line and then moving into the middle of the race track for no reason other than to bother LH, who was clearly going to overtake him on that straight.

He did not pull out of his ideal line to overtake the car in from of him, he simply moved across the track with a faster car approaching him quickly.

I know LH took the high road and refused to lay blame on anyone else but himself. I also know that Renault are ferociously making available telemetry to prove otherwise, but my issue is not with the speed ( or lack thereof as they proclaim) but with the move to the inside of the track where a faster car was clearly outpacing them to overtake and he simply moved over to have that car crash into his back.

I'm pretty sure that this isn't going to be the end of this story as I've heard rumors that Renault and Alonso are going to be called in to explain themselves.

I would ask all who comment to watch the video first and see for themselves if his move to the inside was warranted or not.

[truefan72]

an even better video
http://www.dailymotion.com/cluster/auto/video/x4zodc_bahrein-2008-accrochage-entre-hamil_auto

[Tazio]

A classy post! especially from a partisan! I also am glad LH is taking responsibility. If I thought it really made a difference I'd be yelling for him to start attending(GPDA)saftey) meetings(wouldn't hurt but his decision) A lot of good drivers make mistakes especially young ones! You will never be the champ unless you are two things 1: capable 2: aggressive Ayrton, Mike, Fred, and etc. Hamilton may not always be driving through slower traffic. But those guys are racing you. Some harder than others.

[tintop]

So I've looked at this video 10-15 times and the more I see it the more it looks like Alonso moved aggressively into Hamilton Line to defend his position and thereby ( by his lack of speed, deliberate or not) simply caused Hamilton to run into the back of his car

http://ballhype.com/video/gp_de_bahrein_choque_de_hamilton_contra_alonso/

I see Alonso coming off the corner on the ideal line and then moving into the middle of the race track for no reason other than to bother LH, who was clearly going to overtake him on that straight.

He did not pull out of his ideal line to overtake the car in from of him, he simply moved across the track with a faster car approaching him quickly.

I know LH took the high road and refused to lay blame on anyone else but himself. I also know that Renault are ferociously making available telemetry to prove otherwise, but my issue is not with the speed ( or lack thereof as they proclaim) but with the move to the inside of the track where a faster car was clearly outpacing them to overtake and he simply moved over to have that car crash into his back.

I'm pretty sure that this isn't going to be the end of this story as I've heard rumors that Renault and Alonso are going to be called in to explain themselves.

I would ask all who comment to watch the video first and see for themselves if his move to the inside was warranted or not.

It's called running a defensive line - he didn't track out entirely on the right-hander in order to defend the inside line for the subsequent corner. Had Alonso made a double move (i.e. to the right and then to the left) it would have been illegal. Lewis just misjudged Alonso's exit speed and collected him.

[Tazio]

at forst sight it seemed like a strange circumstance, andwith the protaganists having some history i wasn't surprised by the thoughts, especially as there was obviously quite a speed differential at the point of impact, and then they decided to only show onebrief replay during the race that only compounded the mystery.

however, to me it looks obvious that Alonso was off line during the previous chicance (presumabley defending his line into turn 1 contriubuted to this) and as a result Lewis got a fantastic run on him out of the chicane.

from that position he should have cruised alongside and executed an easy pass into the next turn, but Alonso started to move accross to cover the line a little (fairly) and Lewis seems not to have reacted, picked up the drive and the draft and cruised into the back wheel.

i'm glad he took responsibility before a witch hunt was taken up against Alonso, although it was not a complete impossibility that a slight lift could have contributed, i'm glad that in this case it wasn't the case.

i was also surprised to read that Lewis said it was his fault for teh start, didn't see about that until this morning, and assumed that as it was such an atrocious get away that there had been some sort of problem, which of course there was, but it was down to Lewis not pressing the right button at the right time - from there on in i thought he looked a little impatient, like the red mist had descended and in his haste he made a further mistake (not unlike the first lap in Brazil last year)

i hope he can improve this trait and channel that agression a little more effectively
A classy post! especially from a partisan! I also am glad LH is taking responsibility. If I thought it really made a difference I'd be yelling for him to start attending(GPDA)saftey) meetings(wouldn't hurt but his decision) A lot of good drivers make mistakes especially young ones! You will never be the champ unless you are two things 1: capable 2: aggressive Ayrton, Mike, Fred, and etc. Hamilton may not always be driving through slower traffic. But those guys are racing you. Some harder than others.

[Tazio]

I noticed that LH has developed a pretty good one-finger salute! To express his displeasure with drivers of cars that are holding him up! Perhaps someone should inform the arrogant little***** that, that is generally reserved for back markers!

[wmcot]

an even better video
http://www.dailymotion.com/cluster/auto/video/x4zodc_bahrein-2008-accrochage-entre-hamil_auto

The beginning of video shows that Alonso was too far on the kerb on the right and moved left to get back on the racing line. The move to the right just before Lewis hit him was only a slight move of a couple of feet, not like a chop. Lewis still had room on the right, but seemed to go straight into Alonso which goes along with his claim that it was his fault.

[samuratt]

I think it is pretty clear: Hamilton run into Alonso's back.

Still this thread will get a 4th page and so on... XD

[Mickey T]

So I've looked at this video 10-15 times and the more I see it the more it looks like Alonso moved aggressively into Hamilton Line to defend his position and thereby ( by his lack of speed, deliberate or not) simply caused Hamilton to run into the back of his car

http://ballhype.com/video/gp_de_bahrein_choque_de_hamilton_contra_alonso/

I see Alonso coming off the corner on the ideal line and then moving into the middle of the race track for no reason other than to bother LH, who was clearly going to overtake him on that straight.

He did not pull out of his ideal line to overtake the car in from of him, he simply moved across the track with a faster car approaching him quickly.

I know LH took the high road and refused to lay blame on anyone else but himself. I also know that Renault are ferociously making available telemetry to prove otherwise, but my issue is not with the speed ( or lack thereof as they proclaim) but with the move to the inside of the track where a faster car was clearly outpacing them to overtake and he simply moved over to have that car crash into his back.

I'm pretty sure that this isn't going to be the end of this story as I've heard rumors that Renault and Alonso are going to be called in to explain themselves.

I would ask all who comment to watch the video first and see for themselves if his move to the inside was warranted or not.


wow, one guy defends his position, another guy tries to take it.

it's not like lewis was lapping fernando. it was for position. fernando is entitled to make one move on a straight to make life harder for anybody behind.

it's called "racing", incidentally...

the bit where you are supposed to let faster cars go by without a fight is called "qualifying"

[jens]

If Hamilton admitted his mistake, then we have nothing to discuss about here. That collision looked rather odd though and my first thought was about a 'brake test' too.

Hamilton looked really lost in the race, but hey - drivers are also human beings and they can't always make a perfect performance.

[Tazio]

Hamilton looked really lost in the race, but hey - .A possible product of denying the significance of practice shunt. thus not getting it completely out of his head, and behind him.

[airshifter]

The beginning of video shows that Alonso was too far on the kerb on the right and moved left to get back on the racing line. The move to the right just before Lewis hit him was only a slight move of a couple of feet, not like a chop. Lewis still had room on the right, but seemed to go straight into Alonso which goes along with his claim that it was his fault.


That's the way I see it. I'll be the first to admit when watching it live it looked like Alonso may have lifted as the speed difference seemed really high from that angle, but even then I wondered why Lewis simply drove straight into him. It appeared to me from any angle that Lewis had time to move.

It could have been a simple case of being close enough to get target fixation, similar to what happens in Moto GP where a rider goes down the the riders behind watch them sliding and steer right into them.

[Bagwan]

No brake test , just a poorly judged pass attempt . No biggee .

I used to play some video F1 games , and I can't tell you how many times this happened to me .
But , Lewis can't just restart the race .

He had an expensive weekend , seemed pretty frustrated by a practice crash and a poor start .
Gotta rein in that ego .

[Mikeall]

Posted this in the wrong thread earlier:

Dunno why people are saying Alonso moved over or anything. Hamilton seemed to be closing quite rapidly after he'd taken a much better line out of the corner. Alonso had to turn to get round that kink whereas Hamilton was going straight. It just looked like Hamilton couldn't or didn't turn enough to get past him. Maybe the sudden slipstream caught him out or as they say the wing was falling off. Alonso only seemed to move right after he had his rear right tyre was hit which makes sense.

Innocent racing accident I think.

[truefan72]

I noticed that LH has developed a pretty good one-finger salute! To express his displeasure with drivers of cars that are holding him up! Perhaps someone should inform the arrogant little***** that, that is generally reserved for back markers!

Man Tazio,

Have you watched F1 in the past couple fo years?

I think the worst offenders of the gesticulation were/are Alonso, Schumi, DC, Prost, Senna, etc

It is amazing how LH is held to an almost superlative standard nowadays.
It almos reminds me of having to be twice as good to get half the respect.

Ease off a bit on LH here. He is human afterall and his actions so far are no different than others in the past and present.

Calling him an arrogant little**** crosses the line into something personal.
All he has done is go out there and display talent that hasn't been seen in a decade. Less than 2 years into his F1 career, achieiving things most other drivers haven't.

If it is so upsetting that he challenged Alonso to the end, came second in the WDC( and basically blew winning it), won the first race of the 2008 year, and even after 2 subpar races, lies in contention for the WDC, then I am not sure what the issue is. It certainly can't be about his performance, or his comments...

[truefan72]

It's called running a defensive line - he didn't track out entirely on the right-hander in order to defend the inside line for the subsequent corner. Had Alonso made a double move (i.e. to the right and then to the left) it would have been illegal. Lewis just misjudged Alonso's exit speed and collected him.

fair enough

It still LH 73% Alonso 27% in my books
as opposed to my initial LH 100% blame initially

[Valve Bounce]

fair enough

It still LH 73% Alonso 27% in my books
as opposed to my initial LH 100% blame initially

Well gee!! that's better than Lewis Hamilton 73% and Alonso 72% I guess.

Funny how Renault's records show Alonso was going full speed at the time of the collision. Just how much faster the McLaren is trulli amazes me. :eek:

[Tazio]

Man Tazio,

Have you watched F1 in the past couple fo years?

I think the worst offenders of the gesticulation were/are Alonso, Schumi, DC, Prost, Senna, etc

It is amazing how LH is held to an almost superlative standard nowadays.
It almos reminds me of having to be twice as good to get half the respect.

Ease off a bit on LH here. He is human afterall and his actions so far are no different than others in the past and present.

Calling him an arrogant little**** crosses the line into something personal.
All he has done is go out there and display talent that hasn't been seen in a decade. Less than 2 years into his F1 career, achieiving things most other drivers haven't.

If it is so upsetting that he challenged Alonso to the end, came second in the WDC( and basically blew winning it), won the first race of the 2008 year, and even after 2 subpar races, lies in contention for the WDC, then I am not sure what the issue is. It certainly can't be about his performance, or his comments...If I could use one word to answer you I would say "action"! I have to admit Hamilton has a long way to go

to match the hilarious pantomime that was Fred waving furiously from about 100meters behind a backmarker

(as if they could see him :p :) Fred is an egotistical self centered little snit.

I couldn't help using the strongest explicative I could think of, because I don't remember ever seeing any Champion

(or wana be) in recent years flip a guy off who he was racing for position with,

and who had done nothing remotely close to being considered inapropriate in the defense of his position.

If you read my recent posts you will see that I have been very complimetary toward LH.

I'm not bashing him! But his "action" IMHO

broke new ground!

[leopard]

The renault's defense that Alonso was at full speed when collided is acceptable, considering they have fastest lap not even better than Force India.

[Ent]

All this blaming this driver or that makes interesting reading, but haven't McLaren now said that Hamilton's front wing failed, hence the surge in speed and the accident. If that is the case, then it is neither driver's fault. Hamilton would have been as surprised by the accident as Alonso was. Apparently an early touch with a Toro Rosso or even Alonso was the cause. It's just a racing incident, folks. Time to move on.

[ten-tenths]

All this blaming this driver or that makes interesting reading, but haven't McLaren now said that Hamilton's front wing failed, hence the surge in speed and the accident. If that is the case, then it is neither driver's fault. Hamilton would have been as surprised by the accident as Alonso was. Apparently an early touch with a Toro Rosso or even Alonso was the cause. It's just a racing incident, folks. Time to move on.

if you believe that i got a bridge to sell you ...

my god is it that hard for people to just take hamilton's word for it that it was his fault?

[Tazio]

All this blaming this driver or that makes interesting reading, but haven't McLaren now said that Hamilton's front wing failed, hence the surge in speed and the accident. If that is the case, then it is neither driver's fault. Hamilton would have been as surprised by the accident as Alonso was. Apparently an early touch with a Toro Rosso or even Alonso was the cause. It's just a racing incident, folks. Time to move on.

I've heard this statement about a broken wing. LINK PLEASE only because I like to keep up on the gamesmanship.
If the McLaren did actually have a broken wing, and had it with out previous contact,
why would they give up the game? (Admit any mechanical or structural defect)
when they had a perfectly good excuse for it being broken.
Any driver that understands the implications of revealing a defect in your contender would
and should gladly take the bullet. I think LH fits into this definition quite sufficiently.
People have to realize the "tabloid press" (which in my opinion is all press)
will say anything. Because your average fan is absurdly gullible!

[Azumanga Davo]

Well gee!! that's better than Lewis Hamilton 73% and Alonso 72% I guess.

Funny how Renault's records show Alonso was going full speed at the time of the collision. Just how much faster the McLaren is trulli amazes me. :eek:

Why does Trulli amaze you? :D

[Storm]

Tazio, check the BBC Sport website story where Whitmarsh is quoted about the failed front wing which could have caused the speed surge down the straight.

[ioan]

If Hamilton admitted his mistake, then we have nothing to discuss about here.

Yeah, but not everyone can believe that the one who bested the sliced bread can make mistakes! ;)

[ioan]

I think the worst offenders of the gesticulation were/are Alonso, Schumi, DC, Prost, Senna, etc

I'm expecting you to support this with some kind of evidence.
For example, how many timed did MS show the 1 finger salute to fellow race drivers?
I'm waiting for a well documented answer, personal belief is not admitted as evidence.

[ArrowsFA1]

For example, how many timed did MS show the 1 finger salute to fellow race drivers?
Who cares? Many drivers have, in the heat of the moment, made some sort of hand gesture expressing their annoyance towards an opponent. Worse happens every day on roads around the world.

[Tazio]

Tazio, check the BBC Sport website story where Whitmarsh is quoted about the failed front wing which could have caused the speed surge down the straight.McLaren F1 chief executive officer Martin Whitmarsh said the team's on-board computer data showed that Hamilton's car had lost part of its front wing two seconds before the collision.

That would have made the car faster on the straight and may have contributed to Hamilton misjudging his closing speed on the Renault.

Whitmarsh said the wing's "structure may have been weakened by previous contact" - and Alonso said Hamilton had hit him up the rear on the first lap of the race.

Thank you storm for directing me to that link.

If this is true.
"That would have made the car faster on the straight and may have contributed to Hamilton misjudging his closing speed"

Without trying to disect this too far:
It's Hamiltons job to exercise good judgement! A great driver would have noticed this slight anomoly.
It was the speed in which LH accelorated over the curb that provided him his delta.
As much as I would like to see a video of the seconds before the impact. It couldn't possibly covince me that what happened wasn't Hamiltons fault. It's like Massa's off at Malaysia. He put the car in the situation it was in. And if the information that MW supplied is accurate. I've just regained a little respect for Hamilton. He took the blame and rightfully so.
Cheers

[ShiftingGears]

Who cares?

Exactly.

[ioan]

Who cares? Many drivers have, in the heat of the moment, made some sort of hand gesture expressing their annoyance towards an opponent. Worse happens every day on roads around the world.

It seems to me that someone was interested enough about this cause he chose to make some accusations (mostly unfounded).

I didn't care either about how much Hamilton and Alonso gesticulated to those they were trying to pass.
Waving to others because of the frustration is OK. Showing them the finger in public (on TV) is however not OK.

[Tazio]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66487
Autosport reporting that wing indeed was boken
When LH ,and Fred came together on first lap?

The team suspect that the wing breakage was caused as the result of a collision Hamilton made with another car, believed to be Alonso, at Turn Four on the opening lap.

Still hamilton was a good sport for acknowledging the blame!

[samuratt]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66487
Autosport reporting that wing indeed was boken
When LH ,and Fred came together on first lap?

The team suspect that the wing breakage was caused as the result of a collision Hamilton made with another car, believed to be Alonso, at Turn Four on the opening lap.

Still hamilton was a good sport for acknowledging the blame!

Still he shouldn't touch other driver's cars. F1 racing is not about touching... you have got Nascar for that. 2 collides in 2 laps make for a poor race in Hamilton's standarts. I hope he can change the trend in Barcelona, and at least sparks up the championship a bit, or Ferrari will walk it...

[Tazio]

Still he shouldn't touch other driver's cars. F1 racing is not about touching... you have got Nascar for that. 2 collides in 2 laps make for a poor race in Hamilton's standarts. I hope he can change the trend in Barcelona, and at least sparks up the championship a bit, or Ferrari will walk it...
I just think what happened in Bahrain shows that all the top driver in the best equipment can look really retarded
if thay have to charge the field from the back.That includes Massa, Hamilton, and Kimi
Personally I think weve had an action packed start to the season, and I hope It stays competative!

[Bagwan]

I heard the announcers on SPEED say that if Fernando's back wing hadn't affected much difference on the handling in it's broken condition , it made them wonder about the black art of aeros , and how much is spent on the tweaks .
But , Fernando was slow out of that corner , despite being flat , and Lewis was a rocket , despite it being so hard to follow closely and make passes these days .
They also mentioned that the bridge elemement had been shown to be moving , although no protests had been made as it was not seen to give advantage .
If there , in fact , is no advantage , why not have a support as do others down the lane , being that it sets one up for a fall , due to all knowing about the rules regarding moveable aero parts ?
Now we have Whitmarsh saying that the element broke and the car had more speed as a result .
But , this was speed out of a fast corner , where the front wing elements should be key to grip .

What am I missing here ?
Does this all add up ?


Now , upon posting , I have realized I am waaaaaay off topic here . I'll ask Pino to move it .

[CNR]

BULL SH*T

Lewis Hamilton's front wing was broken early in the first lap of the Bahrain Grand Prix, photographs of his car prove, as mystery surrounds suggestions that his second-lap collision with Fernando Alonso was down to an unexpected mechanical failure.
McLaren told autosport.com today that they stand by their explanation that the upper front wing of Hamilton's car broke two seconds before he ran into the back of Alonso on lap two at Bahrain.

there would be video of this and 2 seconds is 50 frames

so are they trying to say it broke but stay on the car and did the damage on the back of Alonso car

[ArrowsFA1]

Lewis Hamilton's front wing was broken early in the first lap of the Bahrain Grand Prix, photographs of his car prove, as mystery surrounds suggestions that his second-lap collision with Fernando Alonso was down to an unexpected mechanical failure.
McLaren told autosport.com today that they stand by their explanation that the upper front wing of Hamilton's car broke two seconds before he ran into the back of Alonso on lap two at Bahrain.
They claim the breakage led to a sudden loss of downforce, which sucked Hamilton into Alonso's slipstream much quicker that he was likely anticipating.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66487

[ArrowsFA1]

so are they trying to say it broke but stay on the car and did the damage on the back of Alonso car
They are saying the damage to his wing caused "a sudden loss of downforce, which sucked Hamilton into Alonso's slipstream much quicker that he was likely anticipating."

[fandango]

Wouldn't it be nice if those who reckoned Alonso caused the crash were as quick to acknowledge their mistake as Lewis? I don't think Alonso minds what they say about him, but in the interest of fair play and media integrity surely he deserves an apology.

[Tazio]

Wouldn't it be nice if those who reckoned Alonso caused the crash were as quick to acknowledge their mistake as Lewis? I don't think Alonso minds what they say about him, but in the interest of fair play and media integrity surely he deserves an apology.Fandango my "con pinchy" where have you been when I needed you? :p :
I've been the sole defender of "The most acomplished driver of the current crop"

[samuratt]

Fandango my "con pinchy" where have you been when I needed you? :p :
I've been the sole defender of "The most acomplished driver of the current crop"

you're not alone XD

[donKey jote]

you're not alone XD

at least not as alone as I was in the chat... :p

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[Tazio]

at least not as alone as I was in the chat... :p

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

:laugh:
I actually was visiting family out of town. So I had to chose between High Def tele or streaming with chat! Easy choice Spain should be fun. I'll be in the chat room for that one!
Cheers

[jens]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcW_aPOw7zs

The same video I used in another thread. :D About at 1:00 you can clearly see Hamilton losing parts of his front wing on Lap1, which probably became fateful behind Alonso later on?

[Tazio]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcW_aPOw7zs

The same video I used in another thread. :D About at 1:00 you can clearly see Hamilton losing parts of his front wing on Lap1, which probably became fateful behind Alonso later on?
Jens there sure were parts comming off that wing.
Does anyone think that Hamilton was unaware of this?
I think you know where I'm leading to with this!

[Zico]

Jens there sure were parts comming off that wing.
Does anyone think that Hamilton was unaware of this?
I think you know where I'm leading to with this!

Im 100% sure he would have noticed.. at best theres a possibility he failed to make allowances for the extra straightline speed he might have gained... IF... the pieces that broke off were highly contributive downforce parts, which Im not so sure about.

Still a mystery to me, leaning more towards the red mist descending I think..

[Tazio]

Im 100% sure he would have noticed.. at best theres a possibility he failed to make allowances for the extra straightline speed he might have gained... IF... the pieces that broke off were highly contributive downforce parts, which Im not so sure about.

Still a mystery to me, leaning more towards the red mist descending I think..Well I'm leaning towards the concept of not whether or not Hamilton was in control.
In a situation more easily marshaled, Hamilton would have been shown a flag
before he had a chance to creme someone else with his already busted up car!
It’s nice that he apologized to Fred. Of course Fred understands $#it happens when you’re racing hard
I seem to recall that Fred saying:

"Speaking for myself, I decided to join the GPDA because my life is at risk when I am driving the cars,"
http://www.paddocktalk.com/news/html...opic=8&catid=0

[CNR]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/funny_old_game/7339334.stm

Look Away Now: Hamilton's car reveals all

In the second episode of BBC Radio 4's sports comedy show Look Away Now, Garry Richardson interviews Lewis Hamilton's F1 car "Graham".

just one big joke

[Tazio]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/funny_old_game/7339334.stm

Look Away Now: Hamilton's car reveals all

In the second episode of BBC Radio 4's sports comedy show Look Away Now, Garry Richardson interviews Lewis Hamilton's F1 car "Graham".

just one big joke

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[truefan72]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcW_aPOw7zs

The same video I used in another thread. :D About at 1:00 you can clearly see Hamilton losing parts of his front wing on Lap1, which probably became fateful behind Alonso later on?


I must have missed that.

Great video Jen's

that might have contributed to the incident.

oh well,

time to focus on Barcelona

[Knock-on]

Wouldn't it be nice if those who reckoned Alonso caused the crash were as quick to acknowledge their mistake as Lewis? I don't think Alonso minds what they say about him, but in the interest of fair play and media integrity surely he deserves an apology.

Well, I initially thought he might have been naughty but admitted I was wrong.

However, if we're talking about the media (Martin) then perhaps it would be fair to give him a chance to apologise at the first opportunity i.e. the next GP?