Charlton Heston passes on.

[veeten]

Died late yesterday, possibly from natural causes.

http://movies.msn.com/movies/article.aspx?news=308288&GT1=7701 :(

[Dave B]

I wonder if he'll get a 21-rifle salute. It's what he would have wanted.

[BDunnell]

I wonder if he'll get a 21-rifle salute. It's what he would have wanted.

With the guns all aimed at hoodlums, presumably.

[jim mcglinchey]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0B_UZNtEk4&feature=related

At least he can be disarmed now. I wouldnt have agreed with his NRA stance but he made some great films.

[Daniel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0B_UZNtEk4&feature=related

At least he can be disarmed now. I wouldnt have agreed with his NRA stance but he made some great films.
First thing I thought about when I heard the news.

[mallybally]

I wonder if he'll get a 21-rifle salute. It's what he would have wanted.

haha, my thoughts exactly.

[POO505R]

damn dirty ape's.......RIP thats all 3 of my favourite actor dead now, Steve McQueen, Charton Heston & Jimmy Stewart.

[maxu05]

Rip. Made lots of great movies, though, when it came to guns, I couldn't disagree more with his views.

[MrJan]

Can't say I was distraught when I saw this. Not pleased to see people die but given his pro gun stance I find it hard to care, does that make me a bad person?

[Daniel]

Can't say I was distraught when I saw this. Not pleased to see people die but given his pro gun stance I find it hard to care, does that make me a bad person?
Of course not :)

I think people are too precious about dead people. Slag off Diana on this forum and no one will care but do it in a line of people trying to buy their Daily Mail in the morning and you'll be beaten to death with handbags :uhoh:

[BDunnell]

Of course not :)

I think people are too precious about dead people. Slag off Diana on this forum and no one will care but do it in a line of people trying to buy their Daily Mail in the morning and you'll be beaten to death with handbags :uhoh:

:up:

[Tomi]

NRA will easily find some other vegetable to praise their message of "freedam"

[Jag_Warrior]

He was a great actor, who spoke his mind and put forward his beliefs... whether they were popular among the Hollyweird politically correct set or not. What I liked about Heston was the fact that he'd back down a Trotyskyite neocon as fast as he would a left wing gun grabber.

R.I.P.

[AAReagles]

Though I never seen all of his movies, I thought Charlton Heston was a pretty good actor. Some of my favorite movies of his were Ben Hur, Touch Of Evil and one of my all-time favorite cult classics, Planet Of The Apes/Beneath The Planet Of The Apes. Some good stuff there, compared to the less appealing films being made these days, or the last 20-25 years for that matter.

As far as his political background goes, he was a believer in human rights and marched with Martin Luther King at a time long before it was a 'hip' thing to do for celebrites.

I also admired him taking action when he recognized the tolerance of moral decay in society by confronting Time Warner Corp.'s decision to release a vile album produced by rapper Ice-T, that included the controversial song "Cop Killer."

He may have been a 'gun nut', depending on some views, but after having witnessed the 1992 L.A. riots, I figure he had every right to be.

[Jag_Warrior]

As far as his political background goes, he was a believer in human rights and marched with Martin Luther King at a time long before it was a 'hip' thing to do for celebrites.

I also admired him taking action when he recognized the tolerance of moral decay in society by confronting Time Warner Corp.'s decision to release a vile album produced by rapper Ice-T, that included the controversial song "Cop Killer."

He may have been a 'gun nut', depending on some views, but after having witnessed the 1992 L.A. riots, I figure he had every right to be.

Excellent post.

I realize that we live in an age where people only know as much as what they hear on the Celebrity News Watch or CNN. If I asked a person, who is critical of Heston's stand on the 2nd Amendment, exactly what position he held that they so disagree with, they'd likely be hard pressed to give me details without using Google search and then trying to backfill their position. It's just a sad reflection of the times: as long as your position can be covered by taking the cool road, you can be as ignorant as you choose.

A fellow on another forum posted this picture of Heston that most PC trend followers and wind testers probably don't know about:
Heston with Poitier and Belafonte at the Civil Rights March in 1963
http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/306/poitierbelafontehestoncqq0.jpg

Such actions during that time didn't get one anything but a more watchful eye from Hoover's drag queens at the FBI. And for those who enjoy slagging on the NRA, learn what the organization did to counter Jim Crow in South Carolina.

[MrJan]

Okay so I don't know all about Heston and 'all the good things he did' but what I do know is that he was pro gun and I, like a lot of Britons, am anti gun. I don't believe this 'protecting your family' crap. If people don't have guns then there isn't going to be some nut job bursting into a school a wasting a bunch of kids.

If you need to protect your home then a bat will do just as well but unlike a gun it's quite difficult to go on a killings spree with.

And I really don't think that when the 2nd Ammendment was created that the guys meant you could carry fully automatic machine guns with some ridiculous fire rate.

Edit: The 2nd is the one with the bearing arms bit isn't it?

[Jag_Warrior]

Okay so I don't know all about Heston and 'all the good things he did' but what I do know is that he was pro gun and I, like a lot of Britons, am anti gun. I don't believe this 'protecting your family' crap. If people don't have guns then there isn't going to be some nut job bursting into a school a wasting a bunch of kids.

If you need to protect your home then a bat will do just as well but unlike a gun it's quite difficult to go on a killings spree with.

And I really don't think that when the 2nd Ammendment was created that the guys meant you could carry fully automatic machine guns with some ridiculous fire rate.

Edit: The 2nd is the one with the bearing arms bit isn't it?

Respectfully, and with no intent to be insulting, your knowledge of Heston, the NRA, the 2nd Amendment, firearms and crime in America is obviously lacking.

You say that Heston (and the NRA?) was pro gun. Yes, in the sense that Heston and the NRA have promoted lawful firearms ownership, for those who choose to exercise the American right to bear arms. And for your information, there has not been a crime committed with a legally obtained automatic weapon in the United States in many decades. Even semi-auto "assault weapons" account for only a tiny portion of gun crimes in the U.S. - a few tenths of a percent.

One of the major problems that we have, in relation to street crime, is the illegal importation and distribution of firearms from China and other such places. The Mexican border is a problem for us, not just for the human trafficking, but also the drugs and illegal firearms that cross the border. The NRA stood against this, while the Clinton Administration accepted large donations from Norinco, which was found to be smuggling fully automatic weapons to street gangs in Los Angeles in the 90's. Bush II has done absolutely nothing to protect average Americans from this criminal element that pollutes our society. The NRA has pushed for stricter Federal firearms enforcement. In Richmond, VA, it worked so well that drug dealers stopped carrying firearms (for the most part) and actually started using sharpened sticks and knives to enforce their drug boundaries. To be caught with drugs and guns meant a severe federal prison sentence. You may thank pressure from the NRA for that.

I did not agree with Heston on every issue. I do not agree with the NRA on every issue. But as my life has gone on, I have attempted to become somewhat better educated and informed on matters, before offering strong blanket opinions that are based on myths, lies or propaganda from interested parties.

It's fine that you consider yourself to be "anti gun". So I suggest that you not obtain one. I am anti drug.... so I don't take illegal drugs. What other people do is their business, even though it may affect me or mine at some point in time. But I'm not so naive as to believe that words on a piece of paper and a snap of the fingers will make the world a safe & happy place, in regard to either issue. People who focus only on the symptoms and tools of violence and crime have gotten us exactly no where. To get to the root cause seems to be more than they want to tackle. Those are likely the same people who think that one can buy an H&K MP5 at Walmart, that the 2nd Amendment has anything to do with deer hunting or protecting ones home or that Sarah Brady hasn't made a tidy profit from her position at Hand Gun Control, Inc. Other than Rev. Al Sharpton, I can't think of a more opportunistic person.

Whether taking an unpopular stand on civil rights or forcing government paper pushers to get out and actually enforce the laws that we already have on the books, Heston (IMO) represented what was right about this great nation.

[MrJan]

Bur surely it stands to reason that if people didn't have legal guns then it would be less easy to get hold of illegal guns.

And I won't be going out and buying a gun because it is a fairly tricky thing to do in the UK which in my opinion is fantastic.

And I don't care if people are making money from propaganda or whatever because they aren't forming my opinion, the same way that pro gun campaigners aren't forming your opinion (or had you not considered that your propaganda arguement was a two sided coin?). Simply put guns are not very nice things and besides a shotgun which can be used for hunting I really just do not see the point.

Give me a good reason to own a gun and maybe I'll accept your point of view (even though I'll still disagree) but "stopping dealers from carrying guns" is not a reason to start listening to the NRA because I'm pretty sure that my no guns for anyone stance might have had a similar effect.

[Jag_Warrior]

Bur surely it stands to reason that if people didn't have legal guns then it would be less easy to get hold of illegal guns.

I'm not sure by what brand of logic that stands to reason. A "legal gun" would be something like a Glock 22 pistol. An "illegal gun" (in most cases) would be something like a suppressed H&K MP5 machine pistol or a full auto AK47. What does one category have to do with the other?



And I won't be going out and buying a gun because it is a fairly tricky thing to do in the UK which in my opinion is fantastic.

Then you are happy. That is a good thing. :)



And I don't care if people are making money from propaganda or whatever because they aren't forming my opinion, the same way that pro gun campaigners aren't forming your opinion (or had you not considered that your propaganda arguement was a two sided coin?). Simply put guns are not very nice things and besides a shotgun which can be used for hunting I really just do not see the point.

Yes, the NRA publishes its own brand of propaganda. And compared to our former brothers, who now make up the GOA, it is extremely mild by comparison. As for hunting, why do you feel that it's OK to shoot some innocent creature with a shotgun? How do you see a point in that? What has that creature ever done to you? A gun is nothing more than a tool. A tool that you see as "not nice", yet you'd blow some bunny rabbit to bits? My, my... :dozey:



Give me a good reason to own a gun and maybe I'll accept your point of view (even though I'll still disagree) but "stopping dealers from carrying guns" is not a reason to start listening to the NRA because I'm pretty sure that my no guns for anyone stance might have had a similar effect.

First, I don't try to convince people to agree with me or believe what I believe. As long as they leave me in peace, I leave them in peace. It's not at all necessary for you to accept my point of view. I own guns, cars and houses, and I don't offer anyone justification for having them... other than, I can. A problem would only arise if anyone tried to deprive me of my rights or liberties.

Your "no guns for anyone stance" is naive, to say the least. Cocaine and heroin are highly illegal in the U.S. I'm not into that scene, but if I flashed a fat wad of cash in any nearby city, I'm sure that I could score a good amount of either before dinner time. Words on a piece of paper make some people feel like they've accomplished something. But folded up sheets of paper are also what people use to wipe their behinds.

It's already illegal for convicted criminals (felons) to own guns in the U.S. So the only people your "stance" would deal with are (currently) legal gun owners. So you'd leave the criminals alone and round up law abiding Americans? I'll buy an extra bag of popcorn to watch that one take shape.

[MrJan]

As for hunting, why do you feel that it's OK to shoot some innocent creature with a shotgun? How do you see a point in that? What has that creature ever done to you? A gun is nothing more than a tool. A tool that you see as "not nice", yet you'd blow some bunny rabbit to bits? My, my... :dozey:

First, I don't try to convince people to agree with me or believe what I believe. As long as they leave me in peace, I leave them in peace. It's not at all necessary for you to accept my point of view. I own guns, cars and houses, and I don't offer anyone justification for having them... other than, I can. A problem would only arise if anyone tried to deprive me of my rights or liberties.

Hunting is fine in my mind because it can put food on the table. Hunting for sport is a pointless waste of time in my mind, but if people feel good about themselves when they kill things it's probably better if it's animals not people.

Also I don't want to be convinced to love guns I genuinely would like to know why people like them. So far you have only said that you own guns "because I can" but I would seriously love to hear what the real reason is.

As for rounding up 'legal Americans' I never said that. Yes I would like guns to be illegal but I am not so stupid to think that it should happen right now and that everyone now in possession of a gun should go to prison. In fact I know that it will never happen anyway.

In terms of types of gun and the legal aspects I'll admit I know nothing but I was under the impression that semi-automatic rifles like the M16 and a restricted semi-automatic AK47 were legal.

Also please don't get me wrong. I'm not some anti gun nut tying myself to things and spouting all kinds of rubbish 24/7. I just don't see the point in average Joe having a gun in his house.

[Garry Walker]

. I just don't see the point in average Joe having a gun in his house.

Home defence.

I don`t know much about Hestons views on politics, anyone care to enlighten?

[MrJan]

If you read my posts above I made my views clear on that argument. A bat can stop someone breaking in without killing them.

[Jag_Warrior]

If you read my posts above I made my views clear on that argument. A bat can stop someone breaking in without killing them.

Unless they take the bat away from you and beat you foolish with it.

[Jag_Warrior]

Home defence.

I don`t know much about Hestons views on politics, anyone care to enlighten?

At one time, I believe he was a registered Democrat. Later, his views were more reflected by the Republican party. Within the past decade, since the Republican party became infected by neoconservative Trotskyites, Heston might be better described as a "conservative libertarian".

Daddy Bush took a stand against the NRA (and civil liberties) that has never been forgiven by many within the NRA. This and the Klinton years sparked the split within the NRA and brought about swelling the ranks of the Gun Owners of America (GOA). It's a more extreme gun ownership group that has an "interesting" relationship with the JPFO (Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership). According to the JFPO, the U.S.'s Gun Control Act of 1968 bears a striking resemblance to Nazi Germany's Weapons Law of 1938. I guess something must have happened in Germany about that time that makes this Jewish group a bit uneasy when people start talking about mass rounds ups and disarming the population... for their own good, of course.

[MrJan]

Unless they take the bat away from you and beat you foolish with it.

In which case you'd deserve a beating for not getting your shot in first :p : ;)

[Garry Walker]

If you read my posts above I made my views clear on that argument. A bat can stop someone breaking in without killing them.

Can it really? What if the burglar is a 6 foot 2 and 240 pound man and the person in the house is a 5 foot 3 woman? I know how that would end.
What if the person in the house is your average joe, who has a beer belly and can bench press 100 pounds and sits behind the PC 10 hours a day and the attacker is a well-trained man? The outcome would be similar. The burglar would disarm the man and beat him to pieces.
What if there are 2 intruders? Still think a bat is a viable option?


A bat is a realistic option only for those who actually know how to use it, know self-defence and have a bit of muscle to actually make the hit have some power. For most people using a bat is a moronic and very dangerous idea.

In anycase, as I see it, if you intrude someones property, you have lost your rights and whether you die or live is irrelevant, as long as you are taken down with the least amount of danger for the victim (person whose house was broken in).




At one time, I believe he was a registered Democrat. Later, his views were more reflected by the Republican party. Within the past decade, since the Republican party became infected by neoconservative Trotskyites, Heston might be better described as a "conservative libertarian".

Daddy Bush took a stand against the NRA (and civil liberties) that has never been forgiven by many within the NRA. This and the Klinton years sparked the split within the NRA and brought about swelling the ranks of the Gun Owners of America (GOA). It's a more extreme gun ownership group that has an "interesting" relationship with the JPFO (Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership). According to the JFPO, the U.S.'s Gun Control Act of 1968 bears a striking resemblance to Nazi Germany's Weapons Law of 1938. I guess something must have happened in Germany about that time that makes this Jewish group a bit uneasy when people start talking about mass rounds ups and disarming the population... for their own good, of course.

Heston seemed to have some good ideas then.

[Daniel]

Garry, I think that just not doing something is a far better option. Seriously though most home invasions tend to be fairly standoffish affairs where the person merely intimidates the residents so he can have their money and valuables.

Personally I think it's a whole lot easier just to comply with the person's requests and give them what they want, let insurance take care of it and let them be on their merry way than to KILL someone. At the end of the day there's nothing in this house that I would kill for other than my girlfriend. The thing is if the intruder has a gun and you have a gun then someone will most likely be killed and it'll probably be you.

I just don't get why you'd want to kill someone over posessions.

[Garry Walker]

Garry, I think that just not doing something is a far better option. Seriously though most home invasions tend to be fairly standoffish affairs where the person merely intimidates the residents so he can have their money and valuables.

Personally I think it's a whole lot easier just to comply with the person's requests and give them what they want, let insurance take care of it and let them be on their merry way than to KILL someone. At the end of the day there's nothing in this house that I would kill for other than my girlfriend. The thing is if the intruder has a gun and you have a gun then someone will most likely be killed and it'll probably be you.

I just don't get why you'd want to kill someone over posessions.

That would be weak. I just couldn`t stand there and do nothing. It would be encouraging him to committ another such crime in future.

If the burglar was a weak unarmed man, would you defend your valueables and try to fight him off, or would you just give him everything he wants?

Have you ever dealt with insurance claims? They are about as fun to deal with as concussions. Besides, they wouldn`t ever cover the whole damage.

I would take shooting the burglar over letting them get away with it every time. It is not like the world will lose out on something valueable if you put a bullet in the head of a ******* criminal.


And yes, I have a gun at home and I know how to use it.

[MrJan]

Using a gun is even more weak than not doing anything. It is possibly the most cowardly thing that you could do in that situation.

And so well done, having killed the intruder you have saved your house and family, shame you'll be in prison for murder for a good few years. Still I'm sure the wife could get by.

[Garry Walker]

Using a gun is even more weak than not doing anything. It is possibly the most cowardly thing that you could do in that situation.
Possibly the most idiotic thing I have ever read on the internet, almost offensive in its stupidity. Seriously, you deserve a kick in the face for this.

Funny how you have not answered anything to what I wrote about your crazy suggestion on using bats for self-defence. Is it because even you have realized how unrealistic the idea was?

I wonder what would be your suggestion to a woman living alone, who has an intruder come in who just casually decides, ahh, think I will just rape her. Just let him do it, because using a gun after all would be weak, huh?


And so well done, having killed the intruder you have saved your house and family, shame you'll be in prison for murder for a good few years. Still I'm sure the wife could get by. If it is done for self-protection and "reasonably", there will be no charge. So if you come to my house with a knife and I shoot you, it will be okay.
Obivously laws differ, but here it is so.

[Alexamateo]

Using a gun is even more weak than not doing anything. It is possibly the most cowardly thing that you could do in that situation.

And so well done, having killed the intruder you have saved your house and family, shame you'll be in prison for murder for a good few years. Still I'm sure the wife could get by.

Here in Tennessee, if you kill a home invader it will typically be ruled a justifiable homicide. The act of someone breaking into and entering your home is considered an aggressive act even if they are ultimately proven to be unarmed.

[Garry Walker]

Here in Tennessee, if you kill a home invader it will typically be ruled a justifiable homicide. The act of someone breaking into and entering your home is considered an aggressive act even if they are ultimately proven to be unarmed.

As it should be.

[Alexamateo]

Some states have a "retreat" law that says you should first try to avoid a confrontration, but Tennessee has no such law. Also self-defense is affirmative defense, meaning the burden is on prosecuters to prove it was not self-defense.

[MrJan]

In the UK self defence cannot be used as a defence to murder. It's okay to defend yourself but taking a life is too extreme.

Nice that you would kick me in the face Garry, much appreciated. What exactly is 'strong' about using a gun then, ooohh bet it makes you feel like a real man having the power to kill someone without any real effort.

I'll agree that some single women might be too weak to thrash someone with a bat but equally she might not have the nerve to pull the trigger. Now you've got a burgler with a gun, nice going.

This argument will just go on and on as it has done for centuries. Personally I think that guns are dangerous and should be heavily restricted (not saying that this will stamp out gun crime but it will surely help). You on the other hand are a big strong man who thinks nothing of taking another life and loves guns. Well done, enjoy shooting s*** and defending your home and I'll sit over here in my little passivists chair and consider how weak I am.

[Tomi]

I'll agree that some single women might be too weak to thrash someone with a bat but equally she might not have the nerve to pull the trigger.

But they would propably be smart enough to buy proper locks to their doors.

[Daniel]

Who needs locks when you can kill people with guns and feel big about it?

[Tomi]

Who needs locks when you can kill people with guns and feel big about it?

Me for instance, im not so scared or paranoid that i would get a gun for protection.

[jarrambide]

Here in Tennessee, if you kill a home invader it will typically be ruled a justifiable homicide. The act of someone breaking into and entering your home is considered an aggressive act even if they are ultimately proven to be unarmed.

Texas has a law that is commonly referred to as "The Castle Law" which is very similar to the one in Tennessee, but it also covers vehicles and workplace.

I believe owning a gun and specially having it around in your home for protection is far more dangerous for the average Joe and can escalate an invasion into a shooting and thus endangering your family instead of protecting them, but if you are living in Texas, you know about this law, if you decide to invade a home you know what can happen to you, even tough I don´t believe in owning guns, I don´t have any sympathy for burglars and will not shed a tear if they lose their lives because of the "Castle Law" and the shooter serves no time in jail.

Having said that, and assuring everyone I will never buy a gun, as long as the local laws give citizens that right, owning a gun is a personal decision and I respect those who choose to have one believing it protects them and their family members, it is their right until and if the law is changed.

[schmenke]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...

If it ever came to the situation where I found myself living in a society where I feared so much that I felt the need to own a firearm for protection of my house and family, I'd move.

[Tomi]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...

If it ever came to the situation where I found myself living in a society where I feared so much that I felt the need to own a firearm for protection of my house and family, I'd move.

well said, same here.

[Daniel]

Far too rational.

[Camelopard]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...

If it ever came to the situation where I found myself living in a society where I feared so much that I felt the need to own a firearm for protection of my house and family, I'd move.

Same here :) .

[Camelopard]

Possibly the most idiotic thing I have ever read on the internet, almost offensive in its stupidity. Seriously, you deserve a kick in the face for this.


Woah man, you need to lay off the 'roids, it's doin your head in man. :D

[PuddleJumper]

Possibly the most idiotic thing I have ever read on the internet, almost offensive in its stupidity. Seriously, you deserve a kick in the face for this.
No one deserves a kick in the face for having an opinion.

[Jag_Warrior]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...

If it ever came to the situation where I found myself living in a society where I feared so much that I felt the need to own a firearm for protection of my house and family, I'd move.

At the bank I used to work for, some of us were having drinks after work one day and discussing the ways of the world. We drifted onto the topic of poverty and crime. Most of us were trying to be serious as we proposed ideas that might lessen poverty and crime. But one fellow jutted out his jaw and said, "This is stupid! If I lived in a poor area with lots of crime, I'd just move! That's what those people should do too!" Then we paid our tab and got into our collection of Mercedes, BMW's and Jaguars... knowing that the problems of the world had been solved.

Too many people make these issues overly complicated, eh? Yeah, just move...

[Jag_Warrior]

In which case you'd deserve a beating for not getting your shot in first :p : ;)

You are absolutely correct. ;)

[Jag_Warrior]

Garry, I think that just not doing something is a far better option. Seriously though most home invasions tend to be fairly standoffish affairs where the person merely intimidates the residents so he can have their money and valuables.

Personally I think it's a whole lot easier just to comply with the person's requests and give them what they want, let insurance take care of it and let them be on their merry way than to KILL someone. At the end of the day there's nothing in this house that I would kill for other than my girlfriend. The thing is if the intruder has a gun and you have a gun then someone will most likely be killed and it'll probably be you.

I just don't get why you'd want to kill someone over posessions.

I think I see where you're going. But I have one question, as for your girlfriend, under what conditions would you kill for her? That doesn't seem right, based on your other statements. I mean, there is a (crude) old saying: if rape is inevitable, just lay back and enjoy it. So why fight? Why risk turning an act of sex into a violent confrontation? In probably less than 30 minutes, it will all be over anyway. And just like with your lost possessions, you just move on with your life. No one has gotten physically hurt. No one has been physically injured (no need to struggle or resist). And as long as you (and she) can see it that way, there should be no guilt or shame afterward, right?

There are people in this world who would rather be harmed than to harm another... no matter the circumstances. It is an "interesting" philosophy. But one that I am not wired to follow.

[anthonyvop]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...

If it ever came to the situation where I found myself living in a society where I feared so much that I felt the need to own a firearm for protection of my house and family, I'd move.
That is why most people in the US consider Canadians cowards.

You see Americans believe in standing up for themselves and protecting what is theirs.

To each his own I guess.

[schmenke]

That is why most people in the US consider Canadians cowards.

You see Americans believe in standing up for themselves and protecting what is theirs...

I guess.

I'm just happy to live in a society in which I don't need firearms to do so.

[Camelopard]

That is why most people in the US consider Canadians cowards.

Another rash generalization from the master himself.


You see Americans believe in standing up for themselves and protecting what is theirs.

And taking whatever of anybody elses that they so desire to feed their greed for oil.

Hey vop, I thought you signed up and you were off to fight the heathens in Sadr City, did you chicken out?

[jarrambide]

I guess.

I'm just happy to live in a society in which I don't need firearms to do so.
Didn´t Canada have a 22% of homes with a gun in 1996?, not near the 48.6% of the US, but 22% seems a lot (even if many of those guns are for "hunting") for a Country that supposedly doesn´t believe in guns, 22% is a little bit more than 1 out of every 5.

http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/pi/rs/rep-rap/1997/wd97_3-dt97_3.html


And apparently that number increased in the last years, 26%, 1 out of every 4 household, I really don´t see a real distinction between hand guns and shot guns, a gun is a gun, I wouldn´t want either one in my home.

http://www.guncontrol.ca/Content/international.html
http://www.newsbatch.com/gc-intgunsa.html

Funny how so many guns in Canada and so few gun homicides, could I be wrong in thinking that having guns means lots of gun related deaths?, but then again look at England, almost no guns, almost no gun deaths, maybe not having guns really means no gun related deaths.

Any unbiased experts on the subject?

[jarrambide]

That is why most people in the US consider Canadians cowards.

You see Americans believe in standing up for themselves and protecting what is theirs.

To each his own I guess.

Americans or you?, you don´t talk on behalf or represent the POV of a nation, just your own, last time I checked the national anthem still says it is the "land of the free", free as in freedom of having different positions and ideas, and the country is full of very different ideas, opinions and points of view.

[jarrambide]

Another rash generalization from the master himself.



And taking whatever of anybody elses that they so desire to feed their greed for oil.

Hey vop, I thought you signed up and you were off to fight the heathens in Sadr City, did you chicken out?

Mr. Kettle, Mr. Kettle, you have a phone call on line 3, phone call on line 3, Mr. Pot is trying to contact you in regard of your color.

Or is that greed for oil statement only for vop?

[schmenke]

Didn´t Canada have a 22% of homes with a gun in 1996?, not near the 48.6% of the US, but 22% seems a lot (even if many of those guns are for "hunting") ...

Yes, I would think that most of those guns are hunting rilfes. There is a big distinction between guns and rifles... one is far easier to conceal.

I don't refute those stats jarrambide, but honestly, of all my friends and colleagues, I know of only one that owns a firearm, which is a hunting rifle that he rarely uses :mark:

[jarrambide]

Yes, I would think that most of those guns are hunting rilfes. There is a big distinction between guns and rifles... one is far easier to conceal.

I don't refute those stats jarrambide, but honestly, of all my friends and colleagues, I know of only one that owns a firearm, which is a hunting rifle that he rarely uses :mark:
Not my numbers, the 1996 22% number comes directly from the Department of Justice Canada/ Ministere de la Justice Canada, and an increase from 22% to 26% in 12 years doesn´t sound strange.

There is a distinction, but not a huge one for me (stress on "for me"), a gun is a gun, don´t like them, 1 in 4 households is a lot for me but if the law gives you that right we can only respect those personal choices and agree to disagree.

[Camelopard]

Mr. Kettle, Mr. Kettle, you have a phone call on line 3, phone call on line 3, Mr. Pot is trying to contact you in regard of your color.

Or is that greed for oil statement only for vop?

Yep I'll agree that the comment was an over generalisation, point taken. :)

[Jag_Warrior]

Yes, I would think that most of those guns are hunting rilfes. There is a big distinction between guns and rifles... one is far easier to conceal.

Which one is easier to conceal? :confused:

Every rifle is a gun. But not every gun is a rifle.

Usually it's done using the term "pistol", but I recall that to be one of the first basic exercises when I took Basic Logic way back when.

[anthonyvop]

And taking whatever of anybody elses that they so desire to feed their greed for oil.

Oh. I get it. War for Oil! Ha Ha Ha. I love those bumper Sticker Catch Phrases.

Hey vop, I thought you signed up and you were off to fight the heathens in Sadr City, did you chicken out?
As i have stated before I have served my country in Battle.....Have you?

[Daniel]

Oh. I get it. War for Oil! Ha Ha Ha. I love those bumper Sticker Catch Phrases.

As i have stated before I have served my country in Battle.....Have you?
I went to McDonalds yesterday and had a strawberry Milkshake. Did you?

[MrJan]

Oh. I get it. War for Oil! Ha Ha Ha. I love those bumper Sticker Catch Phrases.

So what reasons have the US gone to war, especially in Iraq. Nice to see how succesful the whole war was too, really safe now.


That is why most people in the US consider Canadians cowards.

An that's the kind of attitude that gives Americans such a bad reputation across the world. I feel really sorry for the people in the US that don't have such strange values and get tarred with the same brush.

Okay so you'd stand up for your property and family but what is the point if you are living in an unpleasant neighbourhood where you have to own a gun to feel safe? There is a point where being brave turns into stupidity.

[Azumanga Davo]

Gun Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

RIP Charlton*

* - This was the thread for doing that, yes?

[MrJan]

Gun Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

RIP Charlton*

* - This was the thread for doing that, yes?

Yes it was but it was inevitable that it would turn into a debate about guns. I don't think that it is necessarily a bad thing.

[jarrambide]

Yes it was but it was inevitable that it would turn into a debate about guns. I don't think that it is necessarily a bad thing.
It is what Mr. Heston would have wanted.
;)

[schmenke]

Which one is easier to conceal? :confused:

Every rifle is a gun. But not every gun is a rifle.

Usually it's done using the term "pistol", but I recall that to be one of the first basic exercises when I took Basic Logic way back when.

Sorry, yes, I meant pistols vs. rifles. I thought jarrambide was refering to pistols when he metioned "guns" :mark:

[jarrambide]

Sorry, yes, I meant pistols vs. rifles. I thought jarrambide was refering to pistols when he metioned "guns" :mark:
I was, I think I used hand guns, but next time I will use pistols, less confusion, cooler name.

[Camelopard]

As i have stated before I have served my country in Battle.....Have you?

I also asked you a serious question about this in another thread to which you didn't bother responding to, so I presumed that like most of what you say it was fiction and a result of your over active imagination, go and eat a few more maccas vop and kill a few more non-believers in your dreams or perhaps your computer games. :D

[BDunnell]

The constant referrals that some Americans make to military service records are all too often utterly irrelevant to the discussion in hand, whether that discussion is on here or during an election campaign.

[Daniel]

Have you ever killed a man Ben?

[fandango]

When there are lots of guns around, lots more people get killed. Whether said guns are owned legally or illegally, that statement is true.

So, the next question is: what's to be done? You can a) arm yourself and be ready for the intruder or b) expect the state and/or the police to sort out this problem in society. Both options are viable, depending on the situation in your country. Which is better depends on the government, past and present. It has nothing to do with being a coward, or serving your country in battle, or moving house, or whether you think guns are ugly.

I'm happy that (for the moment) I don't consider having a gun at home to be less risk or greater protection, but if I were ever in a situation protecting my family I hope that I would have no hesitation in pulling the trigger.

[Dave B]

Seriously, you deserve a kick in the face for this.
Gosh, you're awfully brave aren't you, theatening people with physical violence from your nice comfortable chair whilst at the same time demonstrating how to trump what you claim to be the stupidest thing you've ever read. :dozey:

[Dave B]

You see Americans believe in standing up for themselves and protecting what is theirs.
Even if it really belongs to (and I'm just picking two nations completely at random here) Afghanistan or Iraq.

[SOD]

top quality postings from the usual suspects.

Bear sterns didnt stand up for themselves when they were confiscated by the US federal reserve. Neither did the population proest against the FEd reserve from devaluing their currency. then the internet tuff bois turn up to talk about how hard they are.


hey vop, what will you do when uncle SAM comes for your illegal hoard of food? :laugh:

[SOD]

I'm happy that (for the moment) I don't consider having a gun at home to be less risk or greater protection, but if I were ever in a situation protecting my family I hope that I would have no hesitation in pulling the trigger.

if you have a gun you'd better be prepared to use it in that situation, otherwise the gun will be turned on you.

[schmenke]

...So, the next question is: what's to be done? You can a) arm yourself and be ready for the intruder or b) expect the state and/or the police to sort out this problem in society. ...

...Or C) determine the root cause why such protection is required by society in the first place and tackle that problem.

[Daniel]

...Or C) determine the root cause why such protection is required by society in the first place and tackle that problem.
:bigcry: But I wanted to be a big man and beat my chest and hopefully kill someone :(

[MrJan]

:bigcry: But I wanted to be a big man and beat my chest and hopefully kill someone :(

You can kick me in the face if you want ;) That'll probably make you feel like a man. Although I'll have to charge you a tenner and an extra 20 if you want to pistol whip me a few times. Hey if I pretend to break into your house you'll even have a good excuse.

[schmenke]

... Hey if I pretend to break into your house ....

Take his wellies but leave the Wench alone :mad: :p :

[Daniel]

Take his wellies but leave the Wench alone :mad: :p :
Take the wench! Just leave my Berghaus boots please :p

[TOgoFASTER]

Oh. I get it. War for Oil! Ha Ha Ha. I love those bumper Sticker Catch Phrases.



Like empty and meanless babble like "I Support The Troops." Maybe "Shopping For My Freedumb How About You?"
LOL

[TOgoFASTER]

hey vop, what will you do when uncle SAM comes for your illegal hoard of food? :laugh:

Hey did you forget vop is a self reliant, self sufficient american, he'll just get dirty in the backyard and grow more and herd some more gators out of the canals.

[Jag_Warrior]

...Or C) determine the root cause why such protection is required by society in the first place and tackle that problem.

Why are the choices exclusive?

Personally, I'll settle for all three:

A) arm yourself and be ready for the intruder.
B) expect the state and/or the police to sort out this problem in society.
C) determine the root cause why such protection is required by society in the first place and tackle that problem.

Others may do as they please... which is exactly how we'll be keeping things in the U.S. Your mileage may vary elsewhere.

[TOgoFASTER]

WalMart seems to be stepping up to the plate looking at making sure they keep far better records of all gun related sales in their stores. WalMart is the leading retail outlet for gun sales in the US. Keeping more indepth records than required, of who did the buying and what was bought for their and police use when those legal transactions result in crimes using legally purchased weapons.
Kind of big corporate big brother, who would have thought it? ;)

I might have to go with a good taser/MP3 player and a case of mace on isle 10. LOL

[jim mcglinchey]

Thats nothing, in Northern Ireland youve to jump through hoops just to get a 22 Air Rifle, and that includes having to sign a form that allows some pencil pusher working for the Police Service of NI to contact your doctor and check on your psychiatric record. The idea of buying firearms from Walmart or ASDA is just laughable.

[schmenke]

Why are the choices exclusive?

Personally, I'll settle for all three:

A) arm yourself and be ready for the intruder.
B) expect the state and/or the police to sort out this problem in society.
C) determine the root cause why such protection is required by society in the first place and tackle that problem....

Pursuing option c may result in the elimination of A & B.



We buy diapers from Walmart :mark:

[jarrambide]

Pursuing option c may result in the elimination of A & B.



We buy diapers from Walmart :mark:

Don´t you bad mouth diapers, diaper don´t stink the world, babies stink the world. ;)

[jarrambide]

Thats nothing, in Northern Ireland youve to jump through hoops just to get a 22 Air Rifle, and that includes having to sign a form that allows some pencil pusher working for the Police Service of NI to contact your doctor and check on your psychiatric record. The idea of buying firearms from Walmart or ASDA is just laughable.

To me the idea of a region torn apart by religion, a region in which 2 groups that supposedly believe in the same God hate each other and have a long history of violence even tough they are all Irish, the fact that there used to be paramilitary groups is just laughable.

You can find outrageous or "laughable" things in any country, how did it go? "Don´t look at the hay in the other eye.......?"

[TOgoFASTER]

Thats nothing, in Northern Ireland youve to jump through hoops just to get a 22 Air Rifle, and that includes having to sign a form that allows some pencil pusher working for the Police Service of NI to contact your doctor and check on your psychiatric record. The idea of buying firearms from Walmart or ASDA is just laughable.

There is a good degree of tongue in cheek sarcasm echoing in my post aimed at the we're American and will do as we please group. Seems their corporate free market heroes disagree, or are being swayed by a greater public opinion.

I never shop at WalMart, never will.


http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/retail/2008-04-14-walmart-gun-sales_N.htm

[TOgoFASTER]

The idea of buying firearms from Walmart or ASDA is just laughable.


Just to be sure here, I totally agree with the above. To me buying anything at a WalMart is laughable.

[SOD]

how dare you criticise a company that is making money!!!

[Dave B]

Asda Smartprice rifles, just £9. That's Asda price... :p

[Daniel]

Asda Smartprice rifles, just £9. That's Asda price... :p
They'd be the crappest rifles ever. Probably couldn't hit someone from a foot away......

[SOD]

Asda Smartprice rifles, just £9. That's Asda price... :p

:laugh:






that's got me thinking, I wonder if ASDA & WalMart have an Undertaker spin-off?

[Garry Walker]

Nice that you would kick me in the face Garry, much appreciated.
I didn`t say I will kick you in the face, I said you DESERVE to a kick to the face.



What exactly is 'strong' about using a gun then, ooohh bet it makes you feel like a real man having the power to kill someone without any real effort.
Jesus, are you 12?
I never said using a gun is strong. What is strong is standing up for yourself. Protecting yourself, your family and your property. No matter what the means and the situation. I know some people here will let some stupid bitch spit on them and bother them, do nothing about it for whatever reason and then complain about it on a forum, but thankfully not everyone is like that. Some people stand up for themselves, even if it means exposing yourself to a little bit more danger.

If the criminals don`t want to get shot, well doh, then don`t break in other peoples houses. It is quite that easy.



I'll agree that some single women might be too weak to thrash someone with a bat but equally she might not have the nerve to pull the trigger. Now you've got a burgler with a gun, nice going.
Well, I don`t think women lack the nerve more so than men. In any case, for them, they have to have some protective device, because from pure physical reasons they can`t defend themselves from a male intruder.

And I am pretty sure most of them would pull the trigger than get raped. But maybe the life of a criminal is to you more important than an innocent woman getting raped.



You on the other hand are a big strong man who thinks nothing of taking another life Crazy talk, really embarrassing stuff.
I value life, but being truthful, the life of a criminal is indeed quite irrelevant to me, especially if it concerns my family and me. But I value the life of an honest, hard working person immensly.



and loves guns. Well done, enjoy shooting s*** and defending your home and I'll sit over here in my little passivists chair and consider how weak I am.
good luck!


But they would propably be smart enough to buy proper locks to their doors.

I wonder if you are living in some fantasy land, but burglars can break every lock if they put their mind to it. Additionally there are such things as windows, through which people have been known to break in through too.


Who needs locks when you can kill people with guns and feel big about it?
Grow up.
You make it seem like everyone who has a gun is actively looking and hoping for people to break in their house, so they could unload some lead. Idiotic.
I for one hope I never have to use it. But if needed, I wouldn`t hesitate.

I wonder why you have chosen not to reply to what I said about insurance payments.


I've said it before, and I'll say it again...

If it ever came to the situation where I found myself living in a society where I feared so much that I felt the need to own a firearm for protection of my house and family, I'd move.

There is no place in world which is 100% safe, but in anycase, my reasons for owning a gun originally were not due to house protection, but rather for other reasons. But I am happy that I have one now.


Why are the choices exclusive?

Personally, I'll settle for all three:

A) arm yourself and be ready for the intruder.
B) expect the state and/or the police to sort out this problem in society.
C) determine the root cause why such protection is required by society in the first place and tackle that problem.

Others may do as they please... which is exactly how we'll be keeping things in the U.S. Your mileage may vary elsewhere.

Exactly.

[Jag_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.motorsportforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=461830#post461830)
Why are the choices exclusive?

Personally, I'll settle for all three:

A) arm yourself and be ready for the intruder.
B) expect the state and/or the police to sort out this problem in society.
C) determine the root cause why such protection is required by society in the first place and tackle that problem....


Pursuing option c may result in the elimination of A & B.



We buy diapers from Walmart :mark:

No, (just) pursuing that determination would not eliminate A & B. Once a root cause was determined, an action plan would have to be put together and then effectively implemented. Karl Marx had some incredibly fascinating ideas. On paper, even people like me might admit that they might have merit. But as they've been put into practice, we see that what looks good on paper often brings social and economic disaster.

The only way to remove all guns from private hands in the U.S. would be to do it by force. Law enforcement wouldn't be enough; the military would be required for such implementation. I'm truly sorry that some of my fellow citizens are now so animalistic that they "solve" the slightest problem with a firearm. Personally, I don't believe those people can be "fixed". And I'm not willing to see my nation turned into a police state while well meaning, but naive, social engineers try.

I've never bought diapers... from Walmart or anywhere else. But I did buy a goldfish at Walmart once. It died. I don't know what that means.

[Tomi]

I wonder if you are living in some fantasy land, but burglars can break every lock if they put their mind to it. Additionally there are such things as windows, through which people have been known to break in through too.

No im not living in a wonderland, but burglers here are so smart that they brake in in daytime when people are not home.
P.S. I think you where on tv last night, they showed some guy walking the street with helmet on, he had it in case if he would be hit by some car.

[schmenke]

No Wonderland here either, but it's not even close to a state of paranoia either.

We often go to bed at night with the doors unlocked. We sometimes go to work with the doors unlocked. Heck, we've even gone to work for the day and forgotten to shut the garage door, with all its contents in plain sight of the street :mark: .

I use my baseball bat (which is in the garage, btw :mark: ) for baseball.

[fandango]

...Or C) determine the root cause why such protection is required by society in the first place and tackle that problem.

Your option C) is simply a part of option B) in my original post. The police can sort out something immediate, but expecting the state to sort out the problem covers what you call for in C), unless of course you are planning to do all the research yourself, singlehandedly.

[AAReagles]

Great 'Guns Of Navarone.' This thread has really taken off on its gun debate. Imagine my surprise. I see that there's been some good exchanges on this topic, though there are some additional comments I wish to make.




One of the major problems that we have, in relation to street crime, is the illegal importation and distribution of firearms from China and other such places. The Mexican border is a problem for us... the drugs and illegal firearms that cross the border…. Bush II has done absolutely nothing to protect average Americans from this criminal element that pollutes our society…

But as my life has gone on, I have attempted to become somewhat better educated and informed on matters, before offering strong blanket opinions that are based on myths, lies or propaganda from interested parties…

What other people do is their business, even though it may affect me or mine at some point in time. But I'm not so naive as to believe that words on a piece of paper and a snap of the fingers will make the world a safe & happy place, in regard to either issue. People who focus only on the symptoms and tools of violence and crime have gotten us exactly no where. To get to the root cause seems to be more than they want to tackle… or forcing government paper pushers to get out and actually enforce the laws that we already have on the books… (from another post) As long as they leave me in peace, I leave them in peace.... other than, I can.

A problem would only arise if anyone tried to deprive me of my rights or liberties.

This really spells it out. Not to be biased just because I am a gun owner as well, but I feel that folks who against gun control that live outside this country really should experience some time over here in common areas of the big cities (day or night) and see what evolves.







Bur surely it stands to reason that if people didn't have legal guns then it would be less easy to get hold of illegal guns.

I'm inclined to agree with you to some extent, but there are too many guns in this country now that are unaccouted for, legal (inherited) & illegal. As JW indicated there is quite a bit of complex problems with unsecured borders that continue to deteriorate with questionable policies.

Though I'll admit that I have joined the ranks of public camera acceptance.

However, there are other issues that need to be addressed besides gun control:

1) Lack of enforcement of laws (including, but not limited to gun loop-hole policies - in particularly gun shows and internet access to unreasonable amounts of gun magazines/ammo), again mentioned by JW

2) Parental responsibilities

3) Entertainment influence on society

4) Capital punishment enhancement - in other words, once someone has been convicted without a reasonable doubt (DNA testing included), the process to execute a murderous individual (if you with to refer to him as an 'individual') should not take as long as 10-18 years... which of course leads to...

5) Victim's rights improvement.

I'm with Mr. Gary Walker on this one; I have no mercy for cold-blooded animals. Sad to say, I know, but that's how I've become after watching the news and in some unfortunate cases, knowing individuals who were killed for their insignificant amounts of cash and/or car.




Seriously though most home invasions tend to be fairly standoffish affairs where the person merely intimidates the residents… I just don't get why you'd want to kill someone over posessions..

Live in L.A. or the gang infested central valley of California for a while. Unfortunately your opinion would probably change. Particularly, the myth about home invasions being regarded as harmless 'in most cases'.





It's okay to defend yourself but taking a life is too extreme.
:up: Couldn't agree more. If the proper situation presented itself. That is "if"... and only "if."




And I'm not willing to see my nation turned into a police state while well meaning, but naive, social engineers try.
:up: Exactly.

There are some gun restrictions I would like to see applied, but once that ball gets rolling, it may be unstopable. And that's what I fear most.

The main reason I'm against gun control (here's where I get myself in trouble) is that I don't trust my goverment. It can be the deliberate outsourcing of jobs mandated by the last 3 administrations in the U.S., or the simple, ugly act of seeing I.C.E. (Immigration & Customs Enforcment) agents stop a school bus in Mendota, Calif., and remove elementary school-aged children off the bus and into law "enforcement" (yah right -contradictory of terms there) vehicles, just because their parents are illegal aliens - just one step away from Gestapo tactics if you ask me.






Though I wouldn't mind elaborating more, I probably posted enough for the moment (on this thread), and I'm sure there will be plenty for me to follow up on with the responses to continue from folks.




Possibly the most idiotic thing I have ever read on the internet, almost offensive in its stupidity. Seriously, you deserve
a kick in the face for this. :laugh:

This almost sounds like me when I've had enough of constant crybabies complaining about work, the wife/girlfriend, or whatever. It should be noted that you indeed offered non-lethal use of force applications. :D


Finally, on to satire matters...

Well it's Earth Day, so if you folks will kindly excuse me for the rest of the afternoon while I celebrate the occassion. After all I do have a stereo-typical gun-nut reputation to maintain;

So I'm off to blast away... er, I meant "hunt" for some ferocious flea-bitten, tree rodent (commonly known as a squirrel), strap the varmit on the filthy hood of my rusty ol' Chevy pick-up, venture down the road listenin' to Hank Williams Jr.s' "For The Love Of Sunshine", until I git' to the local watering hole and show off my "trophy" to the regulars.

Afterwards, finishing off the day on my way home by mowing down some fresh roadside shrubs planted by those no good, low-down, Starbucks-toting, dope-smokin', long-haired tree huggers.

Which reminds me, I also need to stop by Pistol Pete's Guns & Ammo store so I can replace my worn out rebel flag on my truck, as well as replace my cup holder with 'another' gun rack. ;)

[A.F.F.]

Name one good movie Heston made?

I mean if you're not too busy debating gun rights.

[AAReagles]

Well we did try it once... but as you can see, no pun intended, the subject of his movies/career got shot down.

[A.F.F.]

my reasons for owning a gun originally were not due to house protection, but rather for other reasons. But I am happy that I have one now.



Just curiosity, what were those reasons?

[ALracer]

you make EXCELLENT points, Jag_Warrior.

[jarrambide]

No Wonderland here either, but it's not even close to a state of paranoia either.

We often go to bed at night with the doors unlocked. We sometimes go to work with the doors unlocked. Heck, we've even gone to work for the day and forgotten to shut the garage door, with all its contents in plain sight of the street :mark: .

I use my baseball bat (which is in the garage, btw :mark: ) for baseball.

Locks, bars, alarm systems(and for some guns) are not really that effective, when you use them is really for your own state of mental health, in reality what you are doing is convince yourself that your safe, but if someone wants to steal something from you, he or she will do it, it only takes patience and skill, a few days of studying your schedule, some planning, etc, etc.

But the chances of being robbed or burglarize in most western countries is not that big (depending on the zone if you live in a huge city), I have my head in the clouds, I forget to lock my car, my apartment, Saturday night I forgot to close the windows of my car, the car was in the parking more than 12 hours with the windows down, nothing happen, but if someone wants to steal the car, even if its lock, with the club and the alarm system on, they will steal the car, as easy as that.

[BDunnell]

Locks, bars, alarm systems(and for some guns) are not really that effective, when you use them is really for your own state of mental health, in reality what you are doing is convince yourself that your safe, but if someone wants to steal something from you, he or she will do it, it only takes patience and skill, a few days of studying your schedule, some planning, etc, etc.

Yes, and these things will always happen, no matter what the gun laws are, because there will always be criminal minds and criminals.

[SOD]

Locks, bars, alarm systems(and for some guns) are not really that effective, when you use them is really for your own state of mental health, in reality what you are doing is convince yourself that your safe, but if someone wants to steal something from you, he or she will do it, it only takes patience and skill, a few days of studying your schedule, some planning, etc, etc.

But the chances of being robbed or burglarize in most western countries is not that big (depending on the zone if you live in a huge city), I have my head in the clouds, I forget to lock my car, my apartment, Saturday night I forgot to close the windows of my car, the car was in the parking more than 12 hours with the windows down, nothing happen, but if someone wants to steal the car, even if its lock, with the club and the alarm system on, they will steal the car, as easy as that.

I'd have my gun cocked if I was near some of the owners of the former OWRS series.

[jim mcglinchey]

Name one good movie Heston made?

I mean if you're not too busy debating gun rights.

What about The Omega Man wherein our hero has to defend his fortified apartment against a load of zombified low lifes intent on harming him and getting his stuff and he has to blast the crap out of them with a great selection of guns and.....oh, we're into the gun debate again!

[TOgoFASTER]

^ LOL
Bet he had the best stuff around for blocks and was also a well known conservative self reliant anti zombie so that he well should have expected them to come calling and often. Think he checked under the bed before sleeping to make sure his stingers and RPGs didn't have company?
Brains, brains... oops wrong house.

[schmenke]

What about The Omega Man wherein our hero has to defend his fortified apartment against a load of zombified low lifes intent on harming him and getting his stuff and he has to blast the crap out of them with a great selection of guns and.....oh, we're into the gun debate again!

Not to mention "Solyent Green". Top notch film :up:
Don't remember many guns though...

[Alexamateo]

....

Afterwards, finishing off the day on my way home by mowing down some fresh roadside shrubs planted by those no good, low-down, Starbucks-toting, dope-smokin', long-haired tree huggers.

.....



As a broker of plants and trees, I was initially apalled by this statement, but then I thought about it some more and said "Hey, more sales for me when they replace them!"

So go right ahead, when I get my commission check, I'm gonna go out and buy me a new gun! :D ;) :p :

[Alexamateo]

Name one good movie Heston made?

I mean if you're not too busy debating gun rights.

Of course, the most famous ones were Ben-Hur, and The Ten Commandments. They were set pre-guns, but he weilded a pretty mean sword! :)

[SOD]

Well we did try it once... but as you can see, no pun intended, the subject of his movies/career got shot down.

:laugh:

nice to see you back :up: :D

[AAReagles]

As a broker of plants and trees, I was initially apalled by this statement, but then I thought about it some more and said "Hey, more sales for me when they replace them!"

So go right ahead, when I get my commission check, I'm gonna go out and buy me a new gun!
:laugh: :up:

Nice to see that we've both come up with a scheme to help 'jump-start the economy.'





I'd have my gun cocked if I was near some of the owners of the former OWRS series.
:laugh:





nice to see you back.
:up: Thanks chum! I intend on being here full-time, once I have successfully liberated the oppressed state lottery funds. By legal & peaceful means of course, hence not resorting to the 'use of force' measures such as a firearm... Super-Soaker... a rock... ;)

[SOD]

:up: Thanks chum! I intend on being here full-time, once I have successfully liberated the oppressed state lottery funds. By legal & peaceful means of course, hence not resorting to the 'use of force' measures such as a firearm... Super-Soaker... a rock... ;)

you can always forge lottery tickets :s mokin: