Just how slow are the Indy Cars? Real slow!

[nanders]

This will get you going.

from ar1:

Just how slow are the Indy Cars? Real slow!

Just how bad is the Indy Car equipment? Well consider this, It may not mean much but 26 IRL cars have combined for 1,632 laps at St. Petersburg. The Dallaras have a 440-pound and 70-horsepower advantage over the Audi R10 TDI ALMS car. Still, Marco Werner is the fastest driver on the weekend. The sooner the IRL replaces that dog of car the better. To have a heavy 'endurance' car outperform a special built open wheel race car is a black eye to say the least. The best solution? Take the Panoz Champ Car, have American company Panoz build some more (why is the money spent going overseas when better cars are available here in the USA?), badge the turbo engine a Honda and presto next year the IRL can have a real race car for the fans to enjoy.

[Hoop-98]

remember when high downforce was bad :) Actually that information is false now.

Will power just cranked a 62.1

[nanders]

I'm starting to buy into this idea, a little bit. This is how I think it has merit. If the ICS doesn't come up with a substantively different and more advanced formula in time for 2010, I think they should consider this option, if for nothing more then for a interim formula until they get to the real formula.

[-Helix-]

Hm. When I was at the track yesterday and cars were whizzing by me.. "real slow" wasn't exactly what I was thinking.

Maybe compared to a fighter jet or something... to each their own I guess.

Do we really need another thread on this? Nobody is going to spend money on DP-01s for everyone. The car is fine. We can wait one more season for a new formula.

[EagleEye]

This will get you going.

from ar1:

Just how slow are the Indy Cars? Real slow!

Just how bad is the Indy Car equipment? Well consider this, It may not mean much but 26 IRL cars have combined for 1,632 laps at St. Petersburg. The Dallaras have a 440-pound and 70-horsepower advantage over the Audi R10 TDI ALMS car. Still, Marco Werner is the fastest driver on the weekend. The sooner the IRL replaces that dog of car the better. To have a heavy 'endurance' car outperform a special built open wheel race car is a black eye to say the least. The best solution? Take the Panoz Champ Car, have American company Panoz build some more (why is the money spent going overseas when better cars are available here in the USA?), badge the turbo engine a Honda and presto next year the IRL can have a real race car for the fans to enjoy.

Between Danica and some of the Champcar fans/writers I’m not sure who the bigger whiner is?

They just don't get it. The Dallara, love it or hate it, was the ONLY choice for a unified series, given the time frame required to get this thing going. No oval kits. No Honda engine covers. Get over it already....it was the ONLY solution, and thankfully Tony George provided a path for the Champcar teams to make the transition.

As for the engines, again, give it a rest! Honda is the only engine manufacturer that has remained in open wheel racing, and they deserve the right to choose any engine they want to supply to the series. NA, Turbo, Hybrid, Banana powered, you name it, they get to do it.

Why were some of these people so happy with lawsuits, canceled races, spotty schedule, low car count, no TV ratings, no growth, and a series with a continued path in to the oblivion but are now so put off on a car, and an engine. Dumb and dumber, I’d say.

We now have a series with a REAL TV package (i.e., they get paid), HD, TV ratings boost last year, and stunning rating for the Deuce at the first race this year. A series that actually is promoted out loud, instead of the whispers Champcar received on the internet forums. 26 cars, together on a variety of circuits and a Paul Newman/Roger Penske love fest! Hey, stop and smell the Ethanol, its all good!

All that and...Sponsors are looking at the series for '08 and beyond...major sponsors, with major dollars.

Quit Bitchin’ and stop beating a dead horse! Why not start enjoying the ride!

Just about everyone else is.....

[downtowndeco]

This will get you going.

from ar1:

Just how slow are the Indy Cars? Real slow!

Just how bad is the Indy Car equipment? Well consider this, It may not mean much but 26 IRL cars have combined for 1,632 laps at St. Petersburg. The Dallaras have a 440-pound and 70-horsepower advantage over the Audi R10 TDI ALMS car. Still, Marco Werner is the fastest driver on the weekend. The sooner the IRL replaces that dog of car the better. To have a heavy 'endurance' car outperform a special built open wheel race car is a black eye to say the least. The best solution? Take the Panoz Champ Car, have American company Panoz build some more (why is the money spent going overseas when better cars are available here in the USA?), badge the turbo engine a Honda and presto next year the IRL can have a real race car for the fans to enjoy.

Straight up it was BS biased articles like this that made me cancel my sub to AR1. Hey man, it'd their site. They can put anything they want on it, even if it is biased and continually negative. But I'm not going to pay for it.

[Lousada]

Here we go again...

[Hoop-98]

Well today they are 3 seconds faster, lol, but then comparing practice to qualifying would be kind of misleading eh. And in Oriol's words "more fans" !

:)

Great Session.

rh

[garyshell]

I'm starting to buy into this idea, a little bit. This is how I think it has merit. If the ICS doesn't come up with a substantively different and more advanced formula in time for 2010, I think they should consider this option, if for nothing more then for a interim formula until they get to the real formula.


Nanders,

Where is the money going to magically come from for this interim formula? Someone is going to spend all that money and then throw it away when the real formula comes along a year latter? I don't think so, bud.

Gary

[garyshell]

Hm. When I was at the track yesterday and cars were whizzing by me.. "real slow" wasn't exactly what I was thinking.

Maybe compared to a fighter jet or something... to each their own I guess.

Do we really need another thread on this? Nobody is going to spend money on DP-01s for everyone. The car is fine. We can wait one more season for a new formula.


Helix,

I agree 1000%. So freakin' what if the ICS car is slower than an ALMS car. Are they ever on the track at the same time? This is another one of Mark C's crazy rants. The exact speed numbers only have meaning to a handful of us gearheads. For the rest of the folks it only matters that the cars feel fast, and they do feel fast. No one at the track can visually dicern that speed difference. The ONLY freakin' way they can tell is to put a damn stop watch on 'em.

Gary

[garyshell]

Straight up it was BS biased articles like this that made me cancel my sub to AR1. Hey man, it'd their site. They can put anything they want on it, even if it is biased and continually negative. But I'm not going to pay for it.

Agreed. Mark C has become a bitter man, ready to spend someone's money to bring a new car in for one stinkin' year and then throw that investment all away when a new formula is announced. It is the STUPIDEST idea I have ever heard. I voted with my money and dropped my subscription. I enjoyed most of the coverage but tired of the rhetoric snuck into what was being touted as a news article.

This is the same argument I had with AnthonyVPop and the whole Robin Miller Fiasco,. If you want to write an editorial, right an damn editorial. If you want to right a news article keep your damn opinion out of it.

Gary

[indycool]

I would expect better thinking.

1. The Audi has traction control.
2. The Audi is a factory car that probably costs six times what a Dallara does.
3. The Audi (and other ALMS cars) have bigger bodies and generate much more downforce than the Indycars, so they corner faster on a tight street course. The Indycars are faster on the straightaways.
4. The DP-01 with the turbo Cosworth has about 100 more horses than the Dallara/Honda. The Dallara/Honda is right now about where they want speeds for safety purposes. You want to add 100 hp to 'em and have CART at Texas all over again?
5. On a tight street circuit, the Indy Lights are in the 95 mph range and the Indycars are about 103. On a tight street circuit, because of power-to-weight ratio, an enduro kart might be in the same ballpark, being so small and nimble.

Add this to what Gary and Eagle Eye said.....

[gofastandwynn]

Another big think that Mark C leaves out is that the LMP run carbon brakes while the Indy cars run steel. Put carbon rotors on a Dallara and see how much quicker it is...

William Randolph Hearst thinks that is poor journalism...

[-Helix-]

And this is all moot point anyway as the Indycars are actually faster.

[jarrambide]

And this is all moot point anyway as the Indycars are actually faster.
If they are, or they are not is besides the point, CC has one more race to rund and it goes away, IndyCars is all that is left for NorthAmerica, which means this thread can only turn into a "yellow substance" match.

I´m closing this one, but you are all free to open a thread about speeds, down force, torque, brakes, cornering but without the CC vs IRL angle, believe me, I will read it happily, I love when the local experts(tamburello, hoop, IC) reduce my ignorance, I can then use the info to impress my more ignorant friends. ;)