2009 Chevrolet Silverado Hybrid Out This Year

[KarenCaren]

http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/6582_silveradohybrid1.jpg

Last 2007, Chevy sparked the interest of motorists when it came out with its 2009 Chevrolet Silverado Hybrid. As history has shown, hybrid concepts have a tendency to fall off the face of the concept world, never to be heard from again. Not this time. Chevrolet has announced that the eco-friendly 2009 Silverado will be released later this year. Finally, a truck that looks cool and kicks butt at the same time.

For those unaware of what features came with the 2009 Chevrolet Silverado, here’s a rundown of its capabilities. The 2009 Silverado was built with a 6-liter V-8 engine and comes equipped with Active Fuel Management and late-intake valve closing technology.

The truck gives a 40 percent increase in city fuel economy and a 25 percent increase in overall fuel economy allowing the vehicle to go more than 500 miles. The Silverado can also hit 30 miles per hour when running solely on electric mode and depending on the battery charge, the truck can even go up to a full mile. The truck is also capable of towing up to 6,100 lbs and is equipped with the GM’s 2-Mode Hybrid system that optimizes the truck’s transmission allowing it to vary its gear ratios. The Silverado also comes with a front air dam and a tonneau cover for the bed. The truck is not without its drawbacks, however, having only minimal cabin space and having the battery pack placed in the car’s backseat. Despite those two minor setbacks, the 2009 Chevrolet Silverado pretty much makes up for this with its other features.

The 2009 Chevrolet Silverado is set to come out in two types: a 2-wheel drive and a 4-wheel drive truck. Look for this bad boy to appear in the market later this year.

Source: Chevrolet Truck Blog

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[ShiftingGears]

It still begs the question...why? :p :

[leopard]

great, The truck just looked too small, it may have wider cabin than ranger, ranger have wider truck that make them look proportional. imo

[555-04Q2]

How does a 2009 car come out in 2008 :confused:

[janneppi]

I wish companies would pay old members to do their advertising instead having their staff or paid guerilla marketers to register to forums. It's unnecessary load on the servers. :)

Dear General Motors, for a lowly 40 eur per week, i'd be more than willing to tell amazing stories once in a while about how good your products are compared to other similary defective products.

[555-04Q2]

I wish companies would pay old members to do their advertising instead having their staff or paid guerilla marketers to register to forums. It's unnecessary load on the servers. :)

Dear General Motors, for a lowly 40 eur per week, i'd be more than willing to tell amazing stories once in a while about how good your products are compared to other similary defective products.

:laugh: ROTFLMFHO :laugh:

[JSH]

How does a 2009 car come out in 2008 :confused:

The same way my April edition of Playboy arrived at the start of March.

Everybodys trying to get ahead of each other...

[Rollo]

What's good for General Motors is good for the USA, apparantly. In an exercise in sheer pig-headedness, GM went and Hybrid-ed their Chevrolet Silverado and the Cadillac Escalade. This does two things, firstly it shows GM's "commitment to the environment by utilising new technology" (from their official blurbs) and secondly and more importantly it exempts the vehicle from existing pollution and upcoming CO2 laws.

The same V8 which sits underneath Holden's Commodore SS has been matched to an electric motor to provide what's claimed to be a 50% reduction of fuel usage - or in the real world, drops it to a very svelte and sexy 23L/100km.

I mean seriously, it's like having the all new "half the calories diet" where you cut everything in half and magically it's half the calories and because it's half the calories you can have twice as much. It's a bit like saying that diarrhoea is an improvement over dysentry.

[bowler]

I liked the reference to " having only minimal cabin space and having the battery pack placed in the car’s backseat".

The back seat is half the size of Africa, and a toyota corolla would fit under the carpet. The image of a battery sitting on the back seat says lots for the ability of the engineers.

Strange way to advertise what has become a mediocre product.

Adds a whole new meaning to "backfire".

[555-04Q2]

The problem is the Americans just dont know how to (or refuse to, who knows) make decent cars.

[JSH]

The problem is the Americans just dont know how to (or refuse to, who knows) make decent cars.

Based on....???

- Your Opinion?
- Someone else's opinion?
- Actual Personal driving Experiences?
- Data?

[555-04Q2]

Based on....???

- Your Opinion?
- Someone else's opinion?
- Actual Personal driving Experiences?
- Data?

Actual driving experiences, poor all round build quality vs European and Japanese brands, pathetic quality interior plastics used (yuck yuck yuck), poor fuel consumption...the list goes on and on.

[JSH]

Actual driving experiences, poor all round build quality vs European and Japanese brands, pathetic quality interior plastics used (yuck yuck yuck), poor fuel consumption...the list goes on and on.

When? Which vehicle?

Not having a go at you. Just trying to understand the basis behind your comments.

[Wilderness]

I wish companies would pay old members to do their advertising instead having their staff or paid guerilla marketers to register to forums. It's unnecessary load on the servers. :)

Dear General Motors, for a lowly 40 eur per week, i'd be more than willing to tell amazing stories once in a while about how good your products are compared to other similary defective products.
GM is reported to be considering putting out a 4 cyl. 2009 Camaro. Let's see you show us/GM what you got and push this hotrod's best attributes.

[Dave B]

Hybrid cars, when they are so pathetically inefficient and heavy to start off with, are just a sop.

I might as well fit a 9v Duracell to Susy's Punto and claim it's a hybrid.

The only way I can forsee the Chevrolet Desperado selling in the UK is if Chris Eubank buys one. The rest of us have more sense.

[BDunnell]

Hybrid cars, when they are so pathetically inefficient and heavy to start off with, are just a sop.

Exactly. They allow their owners to do no more than salve their consciences while making no real environmental contribution at all.

[airshifter]

Exactly. They allow their owners to do no more than salve their consciences while making no real environmental contribution at all.

Though I agree in a large truck it doesn't help much, many hybrid cars decrease fossil fuel use and greenhouse gasses significantly. Since all the metals in the batteries can be recycled, I fail to see how this has no environmental impact for the positive.

Even in the case of this truck if the claims are true it's a 25 percent reduction in fossil fuel use. While certainly using a smaller vehicle saves more, consumers are for the most part going to buy what they want regardless of that.

[Rollo]

Though I agree in a large truck it doesn't help much, many hybrid cars decrease fossil fuel use and greenhouse gasses significantly. Since all the metals in the batteries can be recycled, I fail to see how this has no environmental impact for the positive..

Prius - 57mpg in the real world.
Aygo - 64mpg in the real world.

Fuel usage is a mainly a function of size. Since most journeys only have a single person, then if people were "environmentally conscious" then they'd but an Aygo and not a Pius. For a similar size car, an Auris gets 58 mpg in the real world.

It therefore stands to reason producing more batteries for a Pius is more environmentally damaging than an Auris. I seriously doubt the recycle rate of batteries in all honesty.

[airshifter]

Prius - 57mpg in the real world.
Aygo - 64mpg in the real world.

Fuel usage is a mainly a function of size. Since most journeys only have a single person, then if people were "environmentally conscious" then they'd but an Aygo and not a Pius. For a similar size car, an Auris gets 58 mpg in the real world.

It therefore stands to reason producing more batteries for a Pius is more environmentally damaging than an Auris. I seriously doubt the recycle rate of batteries in all honesty.

I don't know much about either of those as they aren't sold in the US. But Wikipedia lists the 90 hp version of the Auris at 56.5 mpg. A very good showing, and close enough to the Prius hybrid. But it also lists 0-100 kph as 14.7 seconds. The car is barely getting out of it's own way, so I doubt the US market is going to grab them up.

Similar is true with other vehicles. Compared in all regards, the hybrids can save fuel over a car with equal or close characteristics.

Certainly we all could drive smaller cars or motorcycles, but most people simply won't do it.

[Rollo]

I don't know much about either of those as they aren't sold in the US. But Wikipedia lists the 90 hp version of the Auris at 56.5 mpg. A very good showing, and close enough to the Prius hybrid. But it also lists 0-100 kph as 14.7 seconds. The car is barely getting out of it's own way, so I doubt the US market is going to grab them up.


The Auris is sold in North America, and most of the world as the Corolla. If the Pius is the most fuel efficient car in the USA, then this says a lot for the American market doesn't it? The USA's most fuel efficient car is only bog average everywhere else. Then again, having to haul around the average American is a difficult job.

[Azumanga Davo]

Hybrid cars, when they are so pathetically inefficient and heavy to start off with, are just a sop.

I might as well fit a 9v Duracell to Susy's Punto and claim it's a hybrid.

I have a 33-year old car that has had great strides in reducing it's carbon footprint and carbon monoxide fumes in the last year.

Mind you, it's not all good news. It's mostly getting pushed off to the side of the road when that sort of thing happens. ;) :D

[555-04Q2]

When? Which vehicle?

Not having a go at you. Just trying to understand the basis behind your comments.

I've driven most American cars as I am a complete car nut. I enjoy the older cars (own a TR Tech Cobra) but I'll never trade in my Pro Drive Impreza for any of the new Yankers thank you very much.

Some of the cars I have had experience with are:

1. All Jeeps. All are rubbish compared to the opposition. Do provide capable offroad ability though, but cant match a Landy on a bad day. Again, poor build quality.

2. 2007 Chrysler 300C. My mother wanted to buy one but after sitting in the cheaply put together cabin for a few minutes, not even the great engine could get her to buy it. She went for a Lexus GS300 instead.

3. Chrysler Neon. My mate owned one a few years back (I had the misfortune of driving it one evening when he had a bit too much to drink) and cr@p car is the kindest thing he ever had to say about it.

Dont even get me started on the Caddies.

The only decent cars from the good old US of A were the old Mustangs, Chargers etc from the 60's and 70's. Most cars since then have been extremely dissapointing.

[JSH]

I've driven most American cars as I am a complete car nut. I enjoy the older cars (own a TR Tech Cobra) but I'll never trade in my Pro Drive Impreza for any of the new Yankers thank you very much.

Some of the cars I have had experience with are:

1. All Jeeps. All are rubbish compared to the opposition. Do provide capable offroad ability though, but cant match a Landy on a bad day. Again, poor build quality.

2. 2007 Chrysler 300C. My mother wanted to buy one but after sitting in the cheaply put together cabin for a few minutes, not even the great engine could get her to buy it. She went for a Lexus GS300 instead.

3. Chrysler Neon. My mate owned one a few years back (I had the misfortune of driving it one evening when he had a bit too much to drink) and cr@p car is the kindest thing he ever had to say about it.

Dont even get me started on the Caddies.

The only decent cars from the good old US of A were the old Mustangs, Chargers etc from the 60's and 70's. Most cars since then have been extremely dissapointing.

Aaah, Chrysler products unfortunately would give you that opinion.

You'd probably be more impressed with the current Cadillac CTS though...It's a big improvement.

Then again, I drive a BMW so I can't really say anything. :)

[airshifter]

The Auris is sold in North America, and most of the world as the Corolla. If the Pius is the most fuel efficient car in the USA, then this says a lot for the American market doesn't it? The USA's most fuel efficient car is only bog average everywhere else. Then again, having to haul around the average American is a difficult job.

Being that we in the US pay much less for gas than people in most countries, being fuel efficient is less a selling point than size and comfort. If I wanted a tin can, I'd drive a tin can, but I don't.

In the real world, comparing real cars, increasing the fuel efficiency of any car by 20% makes a difference of 20% if that segment of the market still buys that car rather than a smaller one. That continues to apply to vehicles of any size that realize an increase in efficiency.

[ShiftingGears]

I've driven most American cars as I am a complete car nut. I enjoy the older cars (own a TR Tech Cobra) but I'll never trade in my Pro Drive Impreza for any of the new Yankers thank you very much.

Some of the cars I have had experience with are:

1. All Jeeps. All are rubbish compared to the opposition. Do provide capable offroad ability though, but cant match a Landy on a bad day. Again, poor build quality.

2. 2007 Chrysler 300C. My mother wanted to buy one but after sitting in the cheaply put together cabin for a few minutes, not even the great engine could get her to buy it. She went for a Lexus GS300 instead.

3. Chrysler Neon. My mate owned one a few years back (I had the misfortune of driving it one evening when he had a bit too much to drink) and cr@p car is the kindest thing he ever had to say about it.

Dont even get me started on the Caddies.

The only decent cars from the good old US of A were the old Mustangs, Chargers etc from the 60's and 70's. Most cars since then have been extremely dissapointing.

I've always wondered how some 1980's US cars could milk out little over 200hp from 6.6L engines. Pathetic!

[airshifter]

I've always wondered how some 1980's US cars could milk out little over 200hp from 6.6L engines. Pathetic!

Quite a number of factors played into such low output levels. Many US built cars were large and required greater torque and HP, and thus had low in the rev range torque curves. Combined with changing emissions laws that put many makers into fixes that were bandaids until redesign of an engine class, and outputs on many cars went down.

And in some cases, after the early to mid 70s crack down on insurance rates for performance cars, quite a few cars were severely under rated from the factory. If you compare the performance of many larger cars to the rated output, the numbers simply don't add up. The same holds true of some of the newer vehicles as well.

[backbone1]

Quote: "Actual driving experiences, poor all round build quality vs European and Japanese brands, pathetic quality interior plastics used (yuck yuck yuck), poor fuel consumption...the list goes on and on."

Strange how a post referring to what we call in the U.S., a "pick-up truck" can evolve / devolve into a discussion about cars. Although many U.S. citizens drive S.U.V.'s and Trucks by choice and not by need, regardless of what one might think of G.M. and the reference by an earlier post, the Silverado by definition, is not a car.

I am personally involved in the construction industry and have been all my life, therefore I must have a vehicle capable of hauling the tools of the trade, materials, towing / trailering equipment, etc. Until the last few years, no foreign manufacturer has built, or chose to import a vehicle comparable to a "full sized" domestic pick-up truck. Now that Toyota and Nissan have supposed "true" full sized trucks, when comparing similarly equipped vehicles, the fuel consumption difference is negligible, if not worse than U.S. trucks. All could use significant improvements, this "hybrid" may not be the answer, but something must change!

Regarding quality, I have owned four G.M.C. pick-ups in a row, averaging over 80K miles on each (low mileage because I work locally). That's over 320K "working" not "pleasure" miles total and "knock on wood", not one mechanical failure on any one of those vehicles. Normal maintenance i.e. L.O.F., belts, hoses, tires, brakes, etc. was all that was required. The last two didn't even require "tune-ups" and weren't specified until 100K miles. Maybe I'm very lucky, but the fact is, almost every new auto / truck dealership (import or domestic) in this country, has a busy service / repair department attached to it. Also, when you drive the roads here you not only see dometic brands on the roadsides, you see Honda's, Toyota's, Renault's, B.M.W.'s, Land Rover's, Kia's, Mercedes', Nissan's, Volvo's, Audi's, Porche's, etc.

My main point is, vehicles are complex machines and if it's mechancal, "it" will eventually break. I'll admit that in the past 20 years, import vehicles (mainly Japanese) forced the U.S. manufacturers to dramatically improve quality, "they" had no choice if they wanted to remain in business. Currently, the so-called "gap" in quailty has narrowed substantially and due to recent "buy-outs", and production plant locations, has definitely become a global industry. The "media wave" and "perception" that "the big three" U.S. brands are inferior has crested. In my opinion, those who continue to believe that theory will soon be left behind. I guess the next thing we will hear is that "Indian" ownership will improve the technology and quality of Jaguar and Land Rover.

Lets face it, no one manufacturer or country builds a "perfect vehicle" that could not be improved in some manner. It's interesting to me however that more often than not, someone from outside a particular country of origin chooses to bash another without factually supporting their opinions. I say purchase and drive what you like, if it happens to literally be a "pile of excrement on wheels" you won't hear any complaints from me.

End of Novel. http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/icons/yawn.gif

[555-04Q2]

Quote: "Actual driving experiences, poor all round build quality vs European and Japanese brands, pathetic quality interior plastics used (yuck yuck yuck), poor fuel consumption...the list goes on and on."

Strange how a post referring to what we call in the U.S., a "pick-up truck" can evolve / devolve into a discussion about cars. Although many U.S. citizens drive S.U.V.'s and Trucks by choice and not by need, regardless of what one might think of G.M. and the reference by an earlier post, the Silverado by definition, is not a car.

I am personally involved in the construction industry and have been all my life, therefore I must have a vehicle capable of hauling the tools of the trade, materials, towing / trailering equipment, etc. Until the last few years, no foreign manufacturer has built, or chose to import a vehicle comparable to a "full sized" domestic pick-up truck. Now that Toyota and Nissan have supposed "true" full sized trucks, when comparing similarly equipped vehicles, the fuel consumption difference is negligible, if not worse than U.S. trucks. All could use significant improvements, this "hybrid" may not be the answer, but something must change!

Regarding quality, I have owned four G.M.C. pick-ups in a row, averaging over 80K miles on each (low mileage because I work locally). That's over 320K "working" not "pleasure" miles total and "knock on wood", not one mechanical failure on any one of those vehicles. Normal maintenance i.e. L.O.F., belts, hoses, tires, brakes, etc. was all that was required. The last two didn't even require "tune-ups" and weren't specified until 100K miles. Maybe I'm very lucky, but the fact is, almost every new auto / truck dealership (import or domestic) in this country, has a busy service / repair department attached to it. Also, when you drive the roads here you not only see dometic brands on the roadsides, you see Honda's, Toyota's, Renault's, B.M.W.'s, Land Rover's, Kia's, Mercedes', Nissan's, Volvo's, Audi's, Porche's, etc.

My main point is, vehicles are complex machines and if it's mechancal, "it" will eventually break. I'll admit that in the past 20 years, import vehicles (mainly Japanese) forced the U.S. manufacturers to dramatically improve quality, "they" had no choice if they wanted to remain in business. Currently, the so-called "gap" in quailty has narrowed substantially and due to recent "buy-outs", and production plant locations, has definitely become a global industry. The "media wave" and "perception" that "the big three" U.S. brands are inferior has crested. In my opinion, those who continue to believe that theory will soon be left behind. I guess the next thing we will hear is that "Indian" ownership will improve the technology and quality of Jaguar and Land Rover.

Lets face it, no one manufacturer or country builds a "perfect vehicle" that could not be improved in some manner. It's interesting to me however that more often than not, someone from outside a particular country of origin chooses to bash another without factually supporting their opinions. I say purchase and drive what you like, if it happens to literally be a "pile of excrement on wheels" you won't hear any complaints from me.

End of Novel. http://www.motorsportforums.com/forums/images/icons/yawn.gif

My company has an Isuzu KB250 that has done 1,134,764.6 kilometers and a Mazda B1800 that has done +/- 984,000 kilometers. Both are still going all day, everyday. The Japanese know how to build cars, period. Americans...I still maintain the cars are cheap and crap.

My personal cars have all been either American (never again), Japanese or European (very happy with all bought).

End of my short story ;)

[backbone1]

Everyone is / should be entitled to their own opinion.

However I'm curious. What model years and makes of "American" vehicles have you personally owned? Were they all new to you when purchased with local dealership support, or pre-owned? Are they the same exact models available stateside?

p.s. A B-1800 a truck ? Well, I guess it does have a "bed" of some sort.

[JSH]

It only takes one problem to destroy reputations, but it takes generations to repair them.

And while I'm not suggesting the US OEM's only had one problem, I am suggesting that it doesn't matter how good they're vehicles are getting compared to their rivals, it'll take a loooooong time to reverse the perception that everything coming out of their plants are rubbish.

It also doesn't help that certain other OEM's lets call one of them Company "T".... Are very good at ensuring news about recalls of their vehicles are buried behind bigger issues of the day....Not saying there's anything wrong with that - it's just VERY good timing of news releases.

[backbone1]

JSH,

Thanks, I like your candor,... and agree on several points. I can't explain big business or even condone its practices, but based on what you stated and excluding fraudulent activity, it's tough to blame company "T" for their choice of damage control? At the end of the day someone's job / jobs depends on saving face.

It's strange, but somewhat factual, after thinking back about the history of this "car" subject, to paraphrase / quote another previous post, it really wasn't that long ago that in this country (60's, 70's) ,... Japanese cars were little more than "cheap crap" themselves and oddly enough, that's the market "they" chose to target. Oh how a couple of decades can change things.

Cheers!

[555-04Q2]

Everyone is / should be entitled to their own opinion.

However I'm curious. What model years and makes of "American" vehicles have you personally owned? Were they all new to you when purchased with local dealership support, or pre-owned? Are they the same exact models available stateside?

p.s. A B-1800 a truck ? Well, I guess it does have a "bed" of some sort.

1. New and old US cars. All terrible except my Cobra.

2. B1800. Just because it isn't the size of Texas, doesnt mean its not a "truck". We call them "bakkies" over here.

[backbone1]

5..

Thanks for being civil. Sorry to hear you've had such bad luck with U.S. autos. I'm not trying to "beat a dead horse" it's just that the year and particular model of car has a lot to do with quality / durability. It wasn't long ago that Chrysler put out some models that the door handles literally fell off after a while. In the 80's the Ford "Pinto" was labeled a "rolling gas bomb" after media coverage of two accidents where the cars caught fire after a collision. F.Y.I. One of those cars was parked on the side of what we call the "Interstate" Highway and a full sized bakkie rear ended it at 60 mph. Wow, I guess that car was totally underengineered, it should have sustained a 100 mph rear impact before catching fire. Just kidding, hate to admit I had one (Pinto), enough said about that "pile".

Cobra huh? An original 427 A.C. would be impressive to own. I assume yours is a Mustang? If so, that brings up one of my points. I've owned a Mustang, a fully equipped 5.0 L G.T. I'll be the first to admit; that with that particular model and year car, you could buy one with a cast iron block, inline four, auto tranny, hand crank windows, and a heater with no radio. It was "junk". However the model I purchased with every option avaialble at the time, was a completely different car indeed. Very dependable, ran great even with some engine mods and I "hammered" that car (I was 19) hee hee.
I won't attempt to explain why, but it seems in the U.S. you typically get what you pay for. That's an area the Japanese imports dramatically changed in the 80's, you could buy an inexpensive entry level car with minimal options that was dependable. Now many of those makes are higher priced than domestic brands. The rest is history. We'll see what happens the next couple of decades.

:cool:

[BDunnell]

There are some really interesting posts on this thread!

I suppose a lot of it comes down to the different tastes of the car-buying public in different countries, which is something that will probably never change. Yes, a few models may appeal around the globe, but not all that many when you think about it. A discussion of this could be virtually endless and no conclusions can ever be reached, but even so I'd like to make some observations. It's not just the American industry that makes mainstream models that seem dated and, well, strange to European enthusiasts' eyes. One only has to look at some Toyotas offered in Japan in recent times — they would never have sold in Europe. The Ford Falcon would likewise not probably have appealed to European buyers. On the other hand, it's understandable, for example, that Rover never conquered the Japanese market.

Here, finally, is a question for our American friends on this thread. Can part of the nature of mainstream American cars, which, it is generally agreed, are inferior in terms of dynamics to their European equivalents, be put down to the nature of driving in the USA — for instance, the 55mph speed limit?

[BDunnell]

I won't attempt to explain why, but it seems in the U.S. you typically get what you pay for. That's an area the Japanese imports dramatically changed in the 80's, you could buy an inexpensive entry level car with minimal options that was dependable. Now many of those makes are higher priced than domestic brands. The rest is history. We'll see what happens the next couple of decades.

It could be argued that while Japanese manufacturers learned fairly quickly how to produce reliable, reasonably well-built cars that weren't just copies of their Western equivalents and appealed to many mainstream buyers looking for well-priced runabouts and family cars, it took them far longer to really do much more than that, and achieve all of those attributes but also make these cars as good to drive as their better Western rivals and style them in a truly 'European' way. This came later, with increasing European design and engineering input. Some might say that manufacturers from other Asian countries are still to get these things right.

[airshifter]

My company has an Isuzu KB250 that has done 1,134,764.6 kilometers and a Mazda B1800 that has done +/- 984,000 kilometers. Both are still going all day, everyday. The Japanese know how to build cars, period. Americans...I still maintain the cars are cheap and crap.

My personal cars have all been either American (never again), Japanese or European (very happy with all bought).

End of my short story ;)

http://millionmilevan.com/

Does this make the Ford a supeior product? I personally don't think so. You can find very high mileage cars of just about any type.

I suspect that if you actually thought all American cars were crap, you would have never looked at, much less purchased the Cobra. ;)

[airshifter]

There are some really interesting posts on this thread!

I suppose a lot of it comes down to the different tastes of the car-buying public in different countries, which is something that will probably never change. Yes, a few models may appeal around the globe, but not all that many when you think about it. A discussion of this could be virtually endless and no conclusions can ever be reached, but even so I'd like to make some observations. It's not just the American industry that makes mainstream models that seem dated and, well, strange to European enthusiasts' eyes. One only has to look at some Toyotas offered in Japan in recent times — they would never have sold in Europe. The Ford Falcon would likewise not probably have appealed to European buyers. On the other hand, it's understandable, for example, that Rover never conquered the Japanese market.

Here, finally, is a question for our American friends on this thread. Can part of the nature of mainstream American cars, which, it is generally agreed, are inferior in terms of dynamics to their European equivalents, be put down to the nature of driving in the USA — for instance, the 55mph speed limit?


Having owned a number of vehicles of various types, I personally don't think US cars have inferior build quality or general quality. If you compare like features, prices, and types of vehicles you generally get what you pay for, with exceptions along the way by virtually every company that makes cars or trucks. They have complete failures, and they have others that almost all owners seem happy with.

As an example the original thread topic, full sized trucks. Ford had some spark plug lanching problems in some heads, GMC had rod knock problems, Toyota had camshaft and sludging problems, Honda (though not full sized) had body panel problems. I'm sure for each owner that actually had a problematic vehicle it was a big issue, but for the hundreds of thousands of owners that had no problems it wasn't.

I think the market specifics have a great influence as you state in your post. But I also think brand loyalty, company roots, and such things have a great deal of influence as well. Many in the UK and neighboring countries loved the Land Rover, over here in the US the only people that purchased them did so primarily as a status thing. They depreciate like rocks in this market. I did work for several used car guys that got all vehicles fairly cheap at auction, and they wouldn't take the things for almost free. That same vehicle in the UK would probably be purchased without delay, by someone that actually wanted it for daily use rather than driveway eye candy.

[BDunnell]

I suspect that if you actually thought all American cars were crap, you would have never looked at, much less purchased the Cobra. ;)

Isn't this part of the point that some are making, though? American manufacturers produce some very desirable 'top-end' cars, but their 'bread-and-butter' models don't appeal much more widely. The Chrysler Neon was a good example. It wasn't awful, but the general consensus was that it was crude dynamically compared with the European cars it was up against, and it didn't last long on the European market. It was a good opportunity for a US manufacturer to break into a big European market sector, but the car just wasn't up to it.

[airshifter]

Isn't this part of the point that some are making, though? American manufacturers produce some very desirable 'top-end' cars, but their 'bread-and-butter' models don't appeal much more widely. The Chrysler Neon was a good example. It wasn't awful, but the general consensus was that it was crude dynamically compared with the European cars it was up against, and it didn't last long on the European market. It was a good opportunity for a US manufacturer to break into a big European market sector, but the car just wasn't up to it.

But the same is true if you reverse the roles. Many US company cars that do great in other parts of the world are not desired here in the US. And the Neon was an example of a very inexpensive car here in the US, so people didn't expect much of it other than basic transportation. When we got one of my wifes cars she looked at them, and you could get one with most options for $14,000 or so. In that day and time it was a cheap car. I'm not sure what you could buy in the European market for that little money, but over here you'd be lucky to buy a decent European car that was 6 years old for that price.

It's not as if people in the US have all moved to European cars any more than Europeans have moved to US cars. The only country in my opinion really breaking into a lot of markets is Japan. Even then some like their styling and performance, others don't. In general I like the quality of Japanese cars, and for the most part the body styling. But some of the interiors and ergonomics are horrible if you ask me. Too often they use a lot of flash and gimmick rather than simple layouts that are user friendly and effective.

[Rollo]

Being that we in the US pay much less for gas than people in most countries, being fuel efficient is less a selling point than size and comfort. If I wanted a tin can, I'd drive a tin can, but I don't.

In the real world, comparing real cars, increasing the fuel efficiency of any car by 20% makes a difference of 20% if that segment of the market still buys that car rather than a smaller one. That continues to apply to vehicles of any size that realize an increase in efficiency.

Yes but a smaller car already uses far less petrol and is more efficient in the first place. That's why I took the comparison of the Auris and the Prius - same manufacturer at about the same size of vehicle.


But the same is true if you reverse the roles. Many US company cars that do great in other parts of the world are not desired here in the US. And the Neon was an example of a very inexpensive car here in the US, so people didn't expect much of it other than basic transportation. When we got one of my wifes cars she looked at them, and you could get one with most options for $14,000 or so. In that day and time it was a cheap car. I'm not sure what you could buy in the European market for that little money, but over here you'd be lucky to buy a decent European car that was 6 years old for that price.

There are no US cars that do "great" outside of America for the reasons that US cars are on the whole far bigger than the rest of the world and the build quality is rubbish.

Having seen the equivalents on US roads themselves - the Cobalt to the Astra, the Malibu to the Vectra, the Focus vs the European Focus, and the US Camry compared to an Australian or Japanese Camry, in every case the US is siginificantly built to a cheaper standard and it shows.

America only really exports top end sports cars, big commercial vehicles and Chryslers where there isn't an existing equivalent company anywhere else.

[555-04Q2]

http://millionmilevan.com/

Does this make the Ford a supeior product? I personally don't think so. You can find very high mileage cars of just about any type.

I suspect that if you actually thought all American cars were crap, you would have never looked at, much less purchased the Cobra. ;)

As for high mileage cars, Japanese cars over here do 500 000 km plus easliy and normally without and major problems along the way either.

The classic american "muscle" cars were thoroughly enjoyable cars to drive and own, hence the Cobra purchase. As for 95% of all new American cars, my attitude stil stands.

[555-04Q2]

Cobra huh? An original 427 A.C. would be impressive to own.

She's been modded a bit (OK a lot to be honest) and has a 5.7 liter Corvette LS1 motor producing 420 BHP to the rear wheels. Using a Toyota Supra racing gearbox and the suspension has been modded with BMW M series suspension bits. She's been clocked at 0-100 km/h in 3.83 seconds :cool: but I'm not brave enough to find out what her top speed is though :s cared:

She's a monster and second only to my 2002 Pro Drive Subaru Impreza as my all time favourite car owned.

Early Cobra's, early Corvettes, early Mustangs etc etc were great American muscle cars and remain classics to this day. Some of the new reincarnations coming out now are brilliant cars :up: like the new Mustang and Charger. Pity they dont cost what the old ones used to.

[Rollo]

The classic american "muscle" cars were thoroughly enjoyable cars to drive and own, hence the Cobra purchase.


Early Cobra's, early Corvettes, early Mustangs etc etc were great American muscle cars...

AC is NOT an American company. Shelby asked AC to build the car and even supply the engine, but every AC Cobra like every other AC was built in Thames Ditton, Surrey.

AC is as American as Tea, Jam & Scones, Elevenses, cricket on the village green, and tuning into Radio 4 for the Shipping News.

[backbone1]

AC is NOT an American company. Shelby asked AC to build the car and even supply the engine, but every AC Cobra like every other AC was built in Thames Ditton, Surrey.

AC is as American as Tea, Jam & Scones, Elevenses, cricket on the village green, and tuning into Radio 4 for the Shipping News.

Interesting; I didn't see where anyone stated that AC was an American Company, although it's quite ironic that the acronym for American Company is AC, Ha ha, now that's some foresight by those filthy, stinking, bloody, rotten Americans. (Back on point) It's tough to impart into an educated discussion that the car was anything other than a British / American cooperative effort. Yes he (Shelby) did ask AC to build the cars, more specifically to build them to accept a V-8 powerlant. Shelby evidently thought of the name "Cobra" in a dream, or some variation of fog caused by tripping on crystal meth, oops it was the sixties, acid perhaps; secured the powerplant himself and I believe he asked G.M. to develop / supply engines for the project prior to Ford. He (Shelby) owned the trademark to the name, sold it to Ford and unless something has changed lately, Ford still exclusively licenses AC to use the name on its products.

In my opinion, the heart and soul of every sports car I've ever owned / driven was defined by its powertrain and performance, so unless there are some original AC Shelby / Cobra's who's "poke" is provided by a Top Secret Jaguar Engine or maybe a daily box of scones deposited into some sort of spontaneous combustion reactor,... the car could / should be considered as much American as British.

Fact is, if it wasn't for Shelby and Ford, the car as we know it wouldn't exist today. I know I'm fairly new here so please don't get me wrong. In this day and age I applaud someone who takes pride in their country / heritage and being passionate about it is one thing, however, is it really that difficult to give credit where credit is due? Am I the only one here that feels when used too often, "sounding the rally cry" can become redundant. I'm married to a Brit and I love her like no other, but neither of us refers to our marriage as exclusively American or British. It's definitely a "cooperative effort",... get my drift. The succession happened a long time ago, FGS lighten up a bit!

Bob's your Uncle, :s mokin:

[Rollo]

unless there are some original AC Shelby / Cobra's who's "poke" is provided by a Top Secret Jaguar Engine or maybe a daily box of scones deposited into some sort of spontaneous combustion reactor,... the car could / should be considered as much American as British.

AC is Britain's oldest car manufacturer. Autocars and Accessories was started in 1901 before becoming Auto Carriers Ltd in 1911. v.British.

As for secret production? How does 11 years of "secret" production grab you, eh? ;)

The car was produced from 1951 to 1962 as the AC Ace; it used the Bristol in-line 6 motor. Only with a new engine that it was called a "Cobra". A 1960 Ace is precisely the same chassis as a 1963 Cobra. The differences are in the drivetrain and sub frame.
Some Ace's even used the Ford Zephyr 6 motor, although they're as rare as hens teeth.


Fact is, if it wasn't for Shelby and Ford, the car as we know it wouldn't exist today.

Well maybe. AC would have produced cars for a long time after and in time might have picked up the Cosworth (depending on how chummy Lotus or Lola were with the lads at Dagenham).

Is a Holden Commodore an "American" car because it uses an LY7 motor? How about the Jensen Interceptor?

I wouldn't call the Chevrolet Cobalt Australian just because the engine is built in Elizabeth (South Aust); nor would I call the Mercedes-Benz M-Class American despite it being built in Tuscaloosa.

[555-04Q2]

AC is NOT an American company. Shelby asked AC to build the car and even supply the engine, but every AC Cobra like every other AC was built in Thames Ditton, Surrey.

AC is as American as Tea, Jam & Scones, Elevenses, cricket on the village green, and tuning into Radio 4 for the Shipping News.

Its an American version, not a British built one, hence its an American car.

[maxu05]

I can't see the point of having a 6 litre v8 hybrid. It's like fitting oars to the QE11.

[JSH]

I wouldn't call the Chevrolet Cobalt Australian just because the engine is built in Elizabeth (South Aust);

They build the Cobalt engine in Elizabeth?????? :eek:

[maxu05]

[quote="JSH"]They build the Cobalt engine in Elizabeth?????? :eek: [/QUOTE

You should see the stretch marks :D OOPS, Hope that wasn't over the top, apologies if it was, just couldn't resist, like waving a red flag in front of a bull that was.

[Rollo]

Aye, the Colbalt uses the Family II.
Production is started in Elizabeth, the heads, valves and induction kit is fitted in Melbourne, and then they're exported to Daewoo, Chevrolet, Opel in Poland and Suzuki. The "short" motors are then exported to have their brains, gearboxes, big ends etc fitted.

In California at least, new cars on the lot are required to have a sticker which states the percentage of American content and where the car was built.

What's hillarious is that the engine is exported half way around the world to Korea and Poland, then comes back in Astras and Vivas.

[airshifter]

AC is Britain's oldest car manufacturer. Autocars and Accessories was started in 1901 before becoming Auto Carriers Ltd in 1911. v.British.

As for secret production? How does 11 years of "secret" production grab you, eh? ;)

The car was produced from 1951 to 1962 as the AC Ace; it used the Bristol in-line 6 motor. Only with a new engine that it was called a "Cobra". A 1960 Ace is precisely the same chassis as a 1963 Cobra. The differences are in the drivetrain and sub frame.
Some Ace's even used the Ford Zephyr 6 motor, although they're as rare as hens teeth.



Well maybe. AC would have produced cars for a long time after and in time might have picked up the Cosworth (depending on how chummy Lotus or Lola were with the lads at Dagenham).

Is a Holden Commodore an "American" car because it uses an LY7 motor? How about the Jensen Interceptor?

I wouldn't call the Chevrolet Cobalt Australian just because the engine is built in Elizabeth (South Aust); nor would I call the Mercedes-Benz M-Class American despite it being built in Tuscaloosa.

Assembly alone is one matter, but the Cobras shared modified versions of parts from two car companies. If anything I would consider the manufacturer Carrol Shelby. He was the one that had the vision to combine the various components and make the car a reality.

I actually rode in an original 427 Cobra when I was 17 or 18. I stopped at a mostly Mustangs car show in the area and couldn't quit looking at it and checking it out. At the time I owned a 429 Thunderbird, and the Shelby owner came over and was checking it out. A few minutes later I offered to buy refreshments if he drove, and he took me up on it.

To this day I'm amazed. This guy owned one of the most rare muscle cars you could find, yet he was impressed with the suicide doors on my T-Bird!