The FIA

[Knock-on]

I know the last thread on Max was closed but I think that the wider question of the FIA and it's credibility needs to be discussed.

The FIA and it's relationship with F1 should be mutually respectful and conducive to the good of the sport and safety of the participants.

It is my opinion that the relationship has been brought into question.

Why?

1. The relationship between FIA and FOM is too close. Max and Bernie are seen as one and the same, making decisions that appear to be based on commercial rationale rather than for the good of the sport.

2. It is perceived by a lot of people that the FIA favor Ferrari.

3. The head of the FIA is known more for his personal vendettas (i.e. Ron Dennis) and verbal attacks (i.e. JYS) than for anything constructive.

4. Leaving out his father's political views and here say, Max Mosely has been publicly exposed using prostitutes (which may result in criminal action).

5. There have been numerous examples of mismanagement / poor decision making that have damaged the sport and even brought it into disrepute.

6. F1, in recent years, has been allowed to deteriorate as a sporting spectacle by FIA decisions and legislation that has consistently been detrimental to good racing.

So, at the very least, I believe Max needs to be replaced by a figurehead who commands respect throughout the sport and hopefully, the relationship between the FIA and F1 can be rebuilt.

[Mark]

I've always thought the relationship between the FIA, Formula 1 and the wider motorsport world to be a strange one.

As far as I know the FIA is the ultimate sanctioning body for all worldwide motorsport, and they delegate this responsibility to national bodies such as the MSA in the UK, which in turn may saction series orginisers such as TOCA.

I think there is a conflict of interest in there in that not only is the FIA the worldwide governing body, but it is effectively directly in charge of one of the sports it sanctions, namely Formula 1. This could, and probably has resulted in situations where the FIA has acted against the interests of other sports in order to protect Formula 1.

IMO, the organisation of Formula 1 should be removed from the FIA and given wholly over to FOM or other body and the FIA should assume the role purely as a governing body with no direct say in the day to day running of the sport, or at least no more say than it has over other sports, e.g. IndyCar.

I apply my point equally to the WRC and WTCC too.

[Knock-on]

I've always thought the relationship between the FIA, Formula 1 and the wider motorsport world to be a strange one.

As far as I know the FIA is the ultimate sanctioning body for all worldwide motorsport, and they delegate this responsibility to national bodies such as the MSA in the UK, which in turn may saction series orginisers such as TOCA.

I think there is a conflict of interest in there in that not only is the FIA the worldwide governing body, but it is effectively directly in charge of one of the sports it sanctions, namely Formula 1. This could, and probably has resulted in situations where the FIA has acted against the interests of other sports in order to protect Formula 1.

IMO, the organisation of Formula 1 should be removed from the FIA and given wholly over to FOM or other body and the FIA should assume the role purely as a governing body with no direct say in the day to day running of the sport, or at least no more say than it has over other sports, e.g. IndyCar.

I apply my point equally to the WRC and WTCC too.

The FIA's reputation in F1 has been severly compromised over a number of years and this latest scandal is indicitive of this.

The fact that people thing Max is too powerful is obvious in that people think he will just brush it off and ignore it as he does with anything he chooses too.

I think that a branch and root review of the FIA role and structure needs to occur.

[Mickey T]

My personal issues with max don't stem from his recent activities (though they don't help).

It's the complete lack of accountability and oversight on his decisions that concerns me.

We all go on about motorsport, but that is, in reality, a small part of the FIA's remit.

it is the peak body for auto clubs (rac, adac, racv etc) around the world, and max is elected by and answerable to these people. however, does anybody know how these delegates are posted to their positions?

does anybody know the process that needs to be undertaken to change a delegate whose decisions they are dissatisfied with?

in australia, it is theoretically possible, though practically impossible, to change the club's representatives by vote. most people join a car club to have somebody help them when their car breaks down in the rain, and they couldn't care less about politics. if a good candidate wants to run, they have little chance of having enough little people vote to make the election valid, regardless of whether they win by one vote or 10 votes to one.

then, the sitting board member usually resigns mid-term, allowing the board nomination of another person (of similar mind, naturally) rather than facing an election.

one alternative is the shemozzle that became of the NRMA once major politics got involved.

yet it is from this noble, democratic and member-driven scenario that max has drawn his power.

a representative of the will of motorists, indeed...

[beejay1138]

What is needed is an M Mosley replacement in the FIA who cares about Motorsport and to want to enhance its functionality, not just a vehicle [ no pun intended] for [as in Mr Mosley's case] arrogant statements that reflect an apparent need for a seedy demonstration of his "Power'.

One Adolph H had similar traits.... :rolleyes:

The off track activities are of no concern to me but the Mosley attitude in FIA terms is to be deplored and does NOTHING but harm the sport generally.

Power corrupts etc.....

[ArrowsFA1]

I think Knockie's point about the relationship between the FIA & FOM is a good one. Max and Bernie are so closely linked going back to FOCA's battle with FISA, where they essentially fought for control of F1 against FISA President Balestre.

On the surface their roles should be clear enough - Max runs the rulemaking body and Bernie the commercial side of the sport - but the reality is they are seen as running the sport together and that is not a good thing IMHO.

The FIA President is responsible for a wide range of motoring (not just motor sport) issues and should be above the day to day running of any one particular category of motor sport (again IMHO!).

I guess one of the reasons for the FIA President being seen as directly in charge of F1 is that F1 is the 'jewel in the crown' of motorsport. It is the most high profile of all the categories that fall under the jurisdiction of the FIA, and therefore the FIA President, who ever they may be, is always likely to be closely involved.

[Knock-on]

I think Knockie's point about the relationship between the FIA & FOM is a good one. Max and Bernie are so closely linked going back to FOCA's battle with FISA, where they essentially fought for control of F1 against FISA President Balestre.

On the surface their roles should be clear enough - Max runs the rulemaking body and Bernie the commercial side of the sport - but the reality is they are seen as running the sport together and that is not a good thing IMHO.

The FIA President is responsible for a wide range of motoring (not just motor sport) issues and should be above the day to day running of any one particular category of motor sport (again IMHO!).

I guess one of the reasons for the FIA President being seen as directly in charge of F1 is that F1 is the 'jewel in the crown' of motorsport. It is the most high profile of all the categories that fall under the jurisdiction of the FIA, and therefore the FIA President, who ever they may be, is always likely to be closely involved.

Very valid points and this is demonstrated perfectly by people associating F1 and Max rather than the FIA and Max. This latest fiasco being a case in point.


Well, if you're reading this Max, then leave, just leave with a loss of dignity and respect rather than the ignominy of being sacked.

Then, a new head can start rebuilding the FIA's credibility and learn not to get too close to sports.

[ShiftingGears]

My personal issues with max don't stem from his recent activities (though they don't help).

It's the complete lack of accountability and oversight on his decisions that concerns me.


I agree.

Why can't he just...LEAVE?!

[AndyRAC]

I think Knockie's point about the relationship between the FIA & FOM is a good one. Max and Bernie are so closely linked going back to FOCA's battle with FISA, where they essentially fought for control of F1 against FISA President Balestre.

On the surface their roles should be clear enough - Max runs the rulemaking body and Bernie the commercial side of the sport - but the reality is they are seen as running the sport together and that is not a good thing IMHO.

The FIA President is responsible for a wide range of motoring (not just motor sport) issues and should be above the day to day running of any one particular category of motor sport (again IMHO!).

I guess one of the reasons for the FIA President being seen as directly in charge of F1 is that F1 is the 'jewel in the crown' of motorsport. It is the most high profile of all the categories that fall under the jurisdiction of the FIA, and therefore the FIA President, who ever they may be, is always likely to be closely involved.


Some good points raised here. There is always confusion when it comes to F1/ FIA stories, even supposedly informed journalists don’t know the difference.
The FIA is the governing body of World Motorsport. The 3 sanctioned World Championships are F1, WRC and WTCC. The President is Max Moseley, he is not the Boss of F1. However the FIA make the rules for the various sports. Bernie is/was Vice- President, though he is boss of Promotional Affairs. He is not the Boss of F1, as far as I know.
As much as I like F1, I also like WRC, WTCC, and feel they don’t get a fair crack of the whip. It could be said that the FIA show favouritism to F1 at the expense of the other 2. Particularly when the WRC was doing well 5-6 years ago, then strange rules came in, and has gone down the drain ever since.

[ArrowsFA1]

Yet, he's stonewalling calls to step down. Perhaps this quote explains the ethos of the man...
I think perhaps JYS hit a nail in an interview with Tony Dodgins (http://www.autosport.com). Mention was made of the now infamous "halfwit" comment...:

"I got a handshake from Max the other day...He said, 'let's forget all that. It's the past. He ran into me and he was his gushing self. There's no conscience there..."

[pino]

Please keep this thread clean, and that means not a single line about what Max did in private, is that clear ? Anyone who ignores my request will be temporarly banned from the forums !

The thread subject is the FIA, not Mosley's private life.

[cosmicpanda]

Max Mosely spends far too much time on F1. As head of FIA, he should be equally likely to be at lower level racing events, rallies and F1 races.

[Knock-on]

Please keep this thread clean, and that means not a single line about what Max did in private, is that clear ? Anyone who ignores my request will be temporarily banned from the forums !

The thread subject is the FIA, not Mosley's private life.

Pino, as much as I love you :kiss: this is a forum for discussing F1 and when someone as powerful as Max is splashed all over the Tabloids with his pants down (so to speak), it's pretty difficult to avoid.

So, we're entitled to discuss Ralph and his Lingerie business, Lewis and his personal reasons to move countries and Schumy with his charity contributions but we cannot make reference to a pretty fundamental reason that Max has brought the FIA, yet again, into disrepute, drawn worldwide condemnation and should therefore step down :confused:

Surely, something that is likely to impact on F1 should be discussed openly and frankly without fear of censorship?

Sorry mate, not being difficult but it is a valid topic as long as people don't get silly with the gory details ;)

[markabilly]

As long as Bernie has the power, the absolute power over F1, given to him by the FIA, with the car manufacturers basically acting as their own cartel, and newbies being forced to buy their way in like a franchise, the incestous relationship and this sort of stuff will continue to ensure the cash revenue rolls in the door.

It is not competition, it is an entertainment business for TV, major corporations and the wealthy.

I do not like Max, and would love to see him gone, and felt that way for years. But if it happened, would it really matter?

Todt or whoever really going to make a difference? yeah, Todt don't look like Max, but beyond that, he will be just as part of the system, and if he don't jump when Bernie pulls his chain, he will be gone. As I type this, the words of an old rock group, whose prime was long before many of you were born, echoes in my ears:

we won't get fooled again.......(yeah right).....

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.... :rotflmao: :monkeedan

[markabilly]

Pino, .

So, we're entitled to discuss Ralph and his Lingerie business, Lewis and his personal reasons to move countries and Schumy with his charity contributions but we cannot make reference to a pretty fundamental reason that Max has brought the FIA, yet again, into disrepute, drawn worldwide condemnation and should therefore step down :confused:

;)
What do you mean?? I can not even discuss MS and his motorbike racing without getting locked out...... :confused:

[ArrowsFA1]

I do not like Max, and would love to see him gone, and felt that way for years. But if it happened, would it really matter?
It may make a difference in that the governing body and the commercial arm may be run more independently of each other than they apparently are at the moment.

I would not want to see Jean Todt as FIA President for the simple reason that he is too closely associated with F1 and may therefore be little different to Max in that sense.

IMHO any new President, if there is to be one, should run the FIA not F1.

[Knock-on]

It may make a difference in that the governing body and the commercial arm may be run more independently of each other than they apparently are at the moment.

I would not want to see Jean Todt as FIA President for the simple reason that he is too closely associated with F1 and may therefore be little different to Max in that sense.

IMHO any new President, if there is to be one, should run the FIA not F1.

100% agree :)

BTW Pino, do you work at 10 Downing street now :laugh:


10 Downing Street
<number10@petitions.pm.gov.uk> to me
More options 11:30 (2 hours ago)
Hi,

I'm sorry to inform you that your petition has been rejected.

Your petition was classed as being in the following categories:

* Outside the remit or powers of the Prime Minister and
Government

* Issues for which an e-petition is not the appropriate
channel

If you wish to edit and resubmit your petition, please follow
the following link:
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Sack-Max/***********

You have four weeks in which to do this, after which your
petition will appear in the list of rejected petitions.

Your petition reads:

We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to: 'bring
pressure on the FIA to replace Max Mosley.'

As the UK has such prominence in F1, the Prime Minister should
take an active interest in promoting our excellence on this
global platform.

However, the Sport is regularly being brought into question by
actions of the FIA and it's credibility. Many of these issues
are attributed to the Head of the FIA; Max Mosley.

With the latest scandal involving Mr Mosley, we the undersigned
ask the Prime Minister to persuade the FIA to replace Mr Mosley
and safeguard the future of F1 and Motor Sport in the UK.

-- the ePetitions team

[markabilly]

It may make a difference in that the governing body and the commercial arm may be run more independently of each other than they apparently are at the moment.

I would not want to see Jean Todt as FIA President for the simple reason that he is too closely associated with F1 and may therefore be little different to Max in that sense.

IMHO any new President, if there is to be one, should run the FIA not F1.

I do not disagree, but the probability of it happenning is slim to none. If it is not Todt, then it will be someone similar, although they may look different , with a different "style" at first, later on the difference will be no different in terms of ultimate effect

Much as a difference in form, but no difference in substance. For that to happen, the fundementals will have to change all over, not merely a "new leader" at the top.

Any such new leader who does not deliver as desired by the likes of Bernie and crew, will be deemed ineffective and gone.

[ArrowsFA1]

Any such new leader who does not deliver as desired by the likes of Bernie and crew, will be deemed ineffective and gone.
You don't think that breaking up the Max/Bernie alliance by itself may lead to improvements in the way F1 is run?

[markabilly]

You don't think that breaking up the Max/Bernie alliance by itself may lead to improvements in the way F1 is run?

Possible but with the way the structure is currently set up, it would only be a short time before things would be back like they were.

Sure, it might look different.......but that type of change is not likely unless there is a major change in structure.

The biggest reason??
Any if those in power wanted that major change, this is their greatest and best chance (thanks to the trash news), they would be dumping Max and running as fast as possible from him as we speak, screaming Max be gone, but obviously, the FIA is not doing that running, and that silence about Max is pretty loud to me.

It says they do not want that change

[Roamy]

A big issue here is not the privacy act but the support of the team owners. By supporting Max you a condoning the actions. The actions are no longer private. How many children world wide are brought into F1 as fans by there parents. So now this will be dragged around in front of them as acceptable conduct.
I support the private life issue but he got caught so he should be out!!

And he is a demonstrated fool at managing motorsports pinnacle of racing.
and actually he is a demonstrated fool at managing his private life and protecting the environment that has paid him millions of dollars. I have not heard from any of the top retirees from the profession but I think they should ring in

[ArrowsFA1]

A big issue here is not the privacy act but the support of the team owners.
Well, on that note I have seen it suggested (link (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/formula_1/article3656212.ece)) that
...teams and car manufacturers involved in the sport began expressing deep unease at Mr Mosley’s apparent determination to continue in his post...
Bear in mind that comes from Murdoch's Times newspaper, and there are no direct quotes other than from a "leading figure in a Japanese Formula One team".

[Wilderness]

The stuff of legend that would bring me out of retirement!

Private matter it might be, legal or otherwise, but nontheless it places MM in a position of potential blackmail. How many people/parties may have control over Mr. Mosley over embarrassing info? It's all clear to me now.

I said this ten years ago and continue to say it, Max and his cronies have to go.

[ArrowsFA1]

Given the standing ovation Ron Dennis received (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66280) from those at the Motor Sport Business Forum in Bahrain, and Max's current difficulties, conclusions could be drawn as to who has a greater level of support within motorsport at the moment.

[Bagwan]

I want to know who is behind this .

Nobody I have seen has made any connection to where the Macs are in the pit lane .
Could the timing of this have anything to do with that ?

Could this have been why they were not in the proper place before this ?
Was there already an investigation on-going about this ? The police sources , and secret service sources , and less reliable French sources , being made known so quickly afterwards sounds to me like he knew there was something amiss already . He knew from them that he was watched for 2 weeks , by a surveillance company , so someone had to have been watching the surveillance company for at least that long .

Curious also is that the race organizers came out with the news before the FIA stated the change .

Is the pit position change related to Max seemingly knowing he had been watched before it hit the news ?


Is this another blackmail scenario ?

I know , it sounds fetched a bit far , but little surprises me in F1 any more so this connection came to mind .
Could it be true ?

Whew , scary idea , and it ends up being my 4,000th post !
Seems a bit ominous to me , and so I think it will all come true .

[SGWilko]

I want to know who is behind this .

Nobody I have seen has made any connection to where the Macs are in the pit lane .
Could the timing of this have anything to do with that ?

Could this have been why they were not in the proper place before this ?
Was there already an investigation on-going about this ? The police sources , and secret service sources , and less reliable French sources , being made known so quickly afterwards sounds to me like he knew there was something amiss already . He knew from them that he was watched for 2 weeks , by a surveillance company , so someone had to have been watching the surveillance company for at least that long .

Curious also is that the race organizers came out with the news before the FIA stated the change .

Is the pit position change related to Max seemingly knowing he had been watched before it hit the news ?


Is this another blackmail scenario ?

I know , it sounds fetched a bit far , but little surprises me in F1 any more so this connection came to mind .
Could it be true ?

Whew , scary idea , and it ends up being my 4,000th post !
Seems a bit ominous to me , and so I think it will all come true .

Nah. I think that Max is digging holes trying to get himself out of a tightspot... but only succeeding in digging himself in deeper.

If the fuzz knew he was being watched, why the chuff didn't they tell him?

So now, max is trying the - it's private, so you should not be watching - but, actually, using hookers, as BCE calls them, is illegal, so someone has a legal case they could pursue about Max....

All sounds like gonads to me......

[ioan]

Please keep this thread clean, and that means not a single line about what Max did in private, is that clear ? Anyone who ignores my request will be temporarly banned from the forums !

The thread subject is the FIA, not Mosley's private life.

Good point.

I've found it interesting how the thread started with "The FIA" but by the 3rd post it's all about "Max Mosley"! What a coincidence.

[Tazio]

The FIA is really just a rumor ;)

Given the standing ovation Ron Dennis received (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66280) from those at the Motor Sport Business Forum in Bahrain, and Max's current difficulties, conclusions could be drawn as to who has a greater level of support within motorsport at the moment.

Great.......let's make Harald Shipman the Minister for Health while we're at it.

[trumperZ06]

Pino, as much as I love you :kiss: this is a forum for discussing F1 and when someone as powerful as Max is splashed all over the Tabloids with his pants down (so to speak), it's pretty difficult to avoid.

So, we're entitled to discuss Ralph and his Lingerie business, Lewis and his personal reasons to move countries and Schumy with his charity contributions but we cannot make reference to a pretty fundamental reason that Max has brought the FIA, yet again, into disrepute, drawn worldwide condemnation and should therefore step down :confused:

Surely, something that is likely to impact on F1 should be discussed openly and frankly without fear of censorship?

Sorry mate, not being difficult but it is a valid topic as long as people don't get silly with the gory details ;)

:D Well put, Knockie !!!


Mad Max currently is President of the FIA.

As such, his actions, both public and private, influence the World's preception of the FIA... that is undeniable.

As much as Max (and others) would wish it,

it is not possible to seperate his egregious conduct,

as brought out by the press,

from his position as president of the FIA !!!


:dozey: IMO...

He simply must go... either by resigning...

or the FIA will be forced to remove him from office.



So Pino, the short answer is...

Max must be replaced !!!

[Bagwan]

Max isn't going to the GP , for "personal reasons" .
I wonder what that's all about .
Has he got something else on for this weekend ?
Is he going hunting ?

[wmcot]

A big issue here is not the privacy act but the support of the team owners. By supporting Max you a condoning the actions.

Not really. That would be like me saying that you are my friend, therefore I support every little detail of the things you do with your life. You can support a person's view or stance on issues without supporting his personal life.

That said, I'm not sure how many team owners support Max anyway? Their problem is that with the tyrranical rule of Max and Bernie, they don't have much choice - either they follow the rules or leave F1!

[Tazio]

Is he going hunting ?
Yes! My sources have revealed that he is state-side and is
Bird hunting with V.P. Dick Chenny :beer:

[Bagwan]

Yes! My sources have revealed that he is state-side and is
Bird hunting with V.P. Dick Chenny :beer:

I was thinking that he might be hooker hunting , not for the usual reasons , but for the video salesperson , to find who paid for the sting .

Someone did .
I think things are only going to get messier .

[Tazio]

I think things are only going to get messier .
Yea' like the last guys face that went hunting with Chenny :beer:

[Mikeall]

Lets get a few things straight.

The FIA is not elected by the F1 team bosses and F1 isn't the FIA's main responsibility but F1 is the most popular thing that the FIA deals with. S

o many journalists persist with the idea that Jean Todt / David Richards / Ron Dennis / Jackie Stewart / Damon Hill will run for F1 presidency. It's not going to happen. It will be a vice president who has experience of being in charge of various departments and organisations within the FIA.

And another thing Max Mosely doesn't run F1 / make all the rules up on his own etc he's just the only one ever makes press releases or gets talked about probably because no one knows anyone else's names. By the time anyone starts to explain the structure of the FIA the fact that Max's dad was mates with Hitler seems far more relevant... Then again isn't their some kind of formula about how long a thread / discussion can go on for before someone refers to the Nazis...

[Tazio]

And another thing Max Mosely doesn't run F1
Of course!
He couldn't possibly have time to do it, and indulge in
his favorite hobbies, and leisure activitieshttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif

[Knock-on]

Good point.

I've found it interesting how the thread started with "The FIA" but by the 3rd post it's all about "Max Mosley"! What a coincidence.

Actually, the thread title is The FIA but the 1st post contains....


I know the last thread on Max was closed but I think that the wider question of the FIA and it's credibility needs to be discussed.

The FIA and it's relationship with F1 should be mutually respectful and conducive to the good of the sport and safety of the participants.

It is my opinion that the relationship has been brought into question.

Why?

1. The relationship between FIA and FOM is too close. Max and Bernie are seen as one and the same, making decisions that appear to be based on commercial rationale rather than for the good of the sport.

2. It is perceived by a lot of people that the FIA favor Ferrari.

3. The head of the FIA is known more for his personal vendettas (i.e. Ron Dennis) and verbal attacks (i.e. JYS) than for anything constructive.

4. Leaving out his father's political views and here say, Max Mosely has been publicly exposed using prostitutes (which may result in criminal action).

5. There have been numerous examples of mismanagement / poor decision making that have damaged the sport and even brought it into disrepute.

6. F1, in recent years, has been allowed to deteriorate as a sporting spectacle by FIA decisions and legislation that has consistently been detrimental to good racing.

So, at the very least, I believe Max needs to be replaced by a figurehead who commands respect throughout the sport and hopefully, the relationship between the FIA and F1 can be rebuilt.


... which I think very firmly details the role and relationship of the FIA to F1 and Max's specific influence :)

[Knock-on]

OK, here's my idea.

If JT wants to run the FIA (why the hell would he) then I have no problem with that as long as Ron runs the direction of F1.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66280

Ron has a clear and logical idea of how F1 needs to progress for the good of the fans, participants and sport. Also, despite the Tifosi's denial, he is hugely respected and admired as demonstrated by his recent ovation. People think he was shafted by Max and he has significant gravitas to manage the direction of the sport.

[markabilly]

OK, here's my idea.

If JT wants to run the FIA (why the hell would he) then I have no problem with that as long as Ron runs the direction of F1.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66280

Ron has a clear and logical idea of how F1 needs to progress for the good of the fans, participants and sport. Also, despite the Tifosi's denial, he is hugely respected and admired as demonstrated by his recent ovation. People think he was shafted by Max and he has significant gravitas to manage the direction of the sport.
I assume you are not saying replace max with RD. Setting aside perosnal life issues, I see little difference bewteen RD and Max, except potential favoirtism to mac.

Honesty? Credibility? well all that was all used up and thrown away last year.

Like I said, meet the new boss, same as the old boss......

[Hawkmoon]

The FIA has the most important role in F1. Far more important than Bernie and FOM and the teams and auto manufacturers don't even compare. Every sport needs a framework within which it is conducted. The FIA provides that framework for F1 and other series.

The problem we have, as Knock-On stated, is the close relationship between Max Mosely and Bernie Ecclestone. This relationship, though good for the sport in the past, is now acting against the sports best sporting interests and seems far too focussed on the sports financial interests.

Max and Bernie are business partners outside of F1. How can anybody reasonable expect them to completely ignore that relationship when they put their FIA/FOM hats on. They can't and the stupid 100 year deal Max gave Bernie for the commercial rights to F1 is proof of that.

For the good of the sport I believe the FIA should regulate not only the sporting side of F1 but the financial side as well. By that I mean that I don't think it is a good idea to give FOM carte blanche to do whatever they wish in terms of who gets a GP and how much they pay for it. The FIA needs to provide a framework within which FOm can run the commercial side of the sport. Perhaps this way the sporting interests of F1, which is what we fans care about, and the financial interests can be balanced. As it stands, the financial interets are very much in the ascendancy.

Max Mosley must resign as President of the FIA. The reasons for this are many and his private life is the least of them. For similar reasons Bernie Ecclestone must also leave. F1 will not move forward in a healthy way with either of these men in their current positions.

[ioan]

Lets get a few things straight.

The FIA is not elected by the F1 team bosses and F1 isn't the FIA's main responsibility but F1 is the most popular thing that the FIA deals with. S

o many journalists persist with the idea that Jean Todt / David Richards / Ron Dennis / Jackie Stewart / Damon Hill will run for F1 presidency. It's not going to happen. It will be a vice president who has experience of being in charge of various departments and organisations within the FIA.

And another thing Max Mosely doesn't run F1 / make all the rules up on his own etc he's just the only one ever makes press releases or gets talked about probably because no one knows anyone else's names. By the time anyone starts to explain the structure of the FIA the fact that Max's dad was mates with Hitler seems far more relevant... Then again isn't their some kind of formula about how long a thread / discussion can go on for before someone refers to the Nazis...

Excellent post! :up:
Sums the situation pretty much up. I hope some people around here are taking notes! :)

[ioan]

OK, here's my idea.

If JT wants to run the FIA (why the hell would he) then I have no problem with that as long as Ron runs the direction of F1.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66280

Ron has a clear and logical idea of how F1 needs to progress for the good of the fans, participants and sport. Also, despite the Tifosi's denial, he is hugely respected and admired as demonstrated by his recent ovation. People think he was shafted by Max and he has significant gravitas to manage the direction of the sport.

:down: No thanks, Ron's credibility within F1 is even worse than Mosley's.

[AndyRAC]

I think some of the confusion is down to erroneous journalism. How many times has it been reported that 'F1 Boss Bernie Ecclestone' or Formula 1 Boss Max Moseley'. Neither are correct, it's about time people realised who does what. And what the FIA does and it's role - particularly in Motorsport.

[ioan]

I think some of the confusion is down to erroneous journalism. How many times has it been reported that 'F1 Boss Bernie Ecclestone' or Formula 1 Boss Max Moseley'. Neither are correct, it's about time people realised who does what. And what the FIA does and it's role - particularly in Motorsport.

That's what happens when journos are allowed to write whatever goes through their mind without having to much responsibilities for it.

[AndyRAC]

That's what happens when journos are allowed to write whatever goes through their mind without having to much responsibilities for it.

Reading some of the British F1 journalists, I think it's obvious they haven't followed the sport for very long. Some of them must watch different races to the rest of us. It grates me when a football/golf/pie eating reporter suddenly becomes the 'F1 Correspondent'. A joke!!

[Zico]

:down: No thanks, Ron's credibility within F1 is even worse than Mosley's.

Now you are being silly.. :D

[Ranger]

:down: No thanks, Ron's credibility within F1 is even worse than Mosley's.

That is contentious.

Remember who it was that underhandedly manipulated a courtroom into allowing some "cheaters" continue racing in 1994.

[markabilly]

As I pointed out in the thread about Bahrain (as did Valve), the FIA may well be forced to act because of potential political fall-out.

While one may maintain that his private life should have nothing to do with it, I forgot about the political connections and support from various governments

I was of the firm opinion, that the stuff should have nothing to do with it, and he should be judged on how he does his job. I still am.

It should be obvious, and one thing I overlooked, is: What politican who wishes to maintain his "political future" will be wanting to be associated and shaking hands with Max, as well as the potential image slipping into reflecting on the FIA and F1.



The Kingdom’s Crown Prince would be foolish to risk political fallout, by being seen shaking hands with max or being assoicated with him, esp. given how the media may "slant" things to the Arab world and his own country.

And when Bernie goes around expecting all this support from governements and their cooperation, what government will want their image to be potentially associated with this stuff by the newspapers in their country? Russia? Hungary? Great Britain? Italy? China? Australia, and on...

[Valve Bounce]

All this about what one does in private should not have any effect on his station in life, per se, is nonsense.

I just wish people would think about what they are saying before they say it.

What if someone beats his wife to death in private? or is a pedophile in private? or refuses to feed his children properly in private?

If he is caught by a news organisation which then publishes his acts, would you say that this has nothing to do with his station in life? Would such a person be acceptable as a headmaster or even a teacher?

I just wish people would think before putting their keyboard into fast forward.

[markabilly]

All this about what one does in private should not have any effect on his station in life, per se, is nonsense.

I just wish people would think about what they are saying before they say it.

What if someone beats his wife to death in private? or is a pedophile in private? or refuses to feed his children properly in private?

If he is caught by a news organisation which then publishes his acts, would you say that this has nothing to do with his station in life? Would such a person be acceptable as a headmaster or even a teacher?

I just wish people would think before putting their keyboard into fast forward.

Those examples are a bit different as none of those involve consenting adults doing something that atleast one believed was private. Never should have been published out there, but impossible to remove once done. Although i grant you that the "political fallout" factor may have more impact as to what happens with max, than I first thought about.

After all, once it was broadcast, the damage is irreversible in many respects, and while i would ignore it, the FIA and F1, esp., Bernie, may not have the financial ability or resources( or more importantly the desire given the greed factor) to ignore when it starts affecting their ability to get favors from the political types running some countries.

After all, it all comes down to what is good for revenue. Morals and such got nothing to do with it.

So if it affects income sufficiently or threatens to, then max will be gone.

If it does not, then max will remain.

But while his replacement may not sing it in the same key and tone, he will sing the song that bernie wants, regardless of the formalities of the F1 and FIA structure

[ioan]

That is contentious.

Remember who it was that underhandedly manipulated a courtroom into allowing some "cheaters" continue racing in 1994.

I also remember the one who cheated, lied to us, cried in front of the cameras and than long after being proved a liar came that letter we all know about.
If anyone believes that others will respect Ron as head of the F1 operations then he/she needs a checkup, from the neck up.

[ioan]

All this about what one does in private should not have any effect on his station in life, per se, is nonsense.

I just wish people would think about what they are saying before they say it.

What if someone beats his wife to death in private? or is a pedophile in private? or refuses to feed his children properly in private?

If he is caught by a news organisation which then publishes his acts, would you say that this has nothing to do with his station in life? Would such a person be acceptable as a headmaster or even a teacher?

I just wish people would think before putting their keyboard into fast forward.

I suppose that most of the crimes are done in private, but hey so is sex (well, usually :D ).
If someone beats his wife or kids in private than he has a chance to be denounced and subsequently sent to jail.
However if someone has sexual pleasure in private than I don't see why is that harming anyone, but the puritans.

[ArrowsFA1]

I've found it interesting how the thread started with "The FIA" but by the 3rd post it's all about "Max Mosley"! What a coincidence.
The difficulty here is separating the man from the job. Max Mosley, as President of the FIA, represents the FIA. His actions, related to his job or otherwise, reflect back on the FIA which is a worldwide organisation deeply involved in motorsport and the car industry generally.

There have been questions over the years about the way F1 is run, and some of that has been related to MM personally, as well as his long-time relationship with Bernie. Again, because of MM's role, that reflects back on the FIA as an organisation.

As long as the FIA is happy with Max as its' President (and he hasn't been removed yet) then you can argue that MM represents the organisation in a way it is happy with. Then again, when he announced his "retirement" a few years ago there were suggestions that it was merely a ploy to secure his position.

Max once said (http://atlasf1.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/5783/.html) "it is actually wrong for people to do these jobs for too long". That was in 1999!!

[BDunnell]

The difficulty here is separating the man from the job. Max Mosley, as President of the FIA, represents the FIA. His actions, related to his job or otherwise, reflect back on the FIA which is a worldwide organisation deeply involved in motorsport and the car industry generally.

There have been questions over the years about the way F1 is run, and some of that has been related to MM personally, as well as his long-time relationship with Bernie. Again, because of MM's role, that reflects back on the FIA as an organisation.

As long as the FIA is happy with Max as its' President (and he hasn't been removed yet) then you can argue that MM represents the organisation in a way it is happy with. Then again, when he announced his "retirement" a few years ago there were suggestions that it was merely a ploy to secure his position.

Max once said (http://atlasf1.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/5783/.html) "it is actually wrong for people to do these jobs for too long". That was in 1999!!

Exactly, and I think the comments made by Mercedes and BMW today make the link between any discussion of the way the FIA works and matters relating to Max even more inextricable.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7328018.stm

[AndyRAC]

None of the Manufacturers involved in the WTCC or WRC have said anything, so I presume they're quite happy for him to stay in power?

[BDunnell]

None of the Manufacturers involved in the WTCC or WRC have said anything, so I presume they're quite happy for him to stay in power?

Well, BMW are in the WTCC!

[ArrowsFA1]

Exactly, and I think the comments made by Mercedes and BMW today make the link between any discussion of the way the FIA works and matters relating to Max even more inextricable.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7328018.stm
Backed up by Toyota (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66293) and Honda's (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66295) comments, although Max Mosley has responded (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66297) to the criticism.

None of the Manufacturers involved in the WTCC or WRC have said anything, so I presume they're quite happy for him to stay in power?
Good point :up: It seems this is a very F1-centric story, which rather reinforces the view of the FIA President being more closely associated with F1 than any of his other responsibilities.

[AndyRAC]

Backed up by Toyota (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66293) and Honda's (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66295) comments, although Max Mosley has responded (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66297) to the criticism.

Good point :up: It seems this is a very F1-centric story, which rather reinforces the view of the FIA President being more closely associated with F1 than any of his other responsibilities.

Which is why he should go. But the next boss will be 'chosen' by the F1 Bosses. Ideally the President should have his finger on the pulse of all Motorsport - not just the chosen sport!

[Garry Walker]

2. It is perceived by a lot of people that the FIA favor Ferrari.

3. The head of the FIA is known more for his personal vendettas (i.e. Ron Dennis) and verbal attacks (i.e. JYS) than for anything constructive.

4. Leaving out his father's political views and here say, Max Mosely has been publicly exposed using prostitutes (which may result in criminal action).

5. There have been numerous examples of mismanagement / poor decision making that have damaged the sport and even brought it into disrepute.

So, at the very least, I believe Max needs to be replaced by a figurehead who commands respect throughout the sport and hopefully, the relationship between the FIA and F1 can be rebuilt.

2) Most of these people being idiots.
3) Mosley has been involved in various constructive projects, the problem is that they are not given as much news coverage, because who on earth cares about positive news?
4) There will be no criminal action, as law has not been broken.
5) Show me one person who hasn`t made a wrong decision and you will see a person who has never made any decisions at all.

I hope Max stays, just to piss off the haters.


:down: No thanks, Ron's credibility within F1 is even worse than Mosley's.
I`d rather have Mosley as the head of FIA over Dennis every time.

[BDunnell]

Which is why he should go. But the next boss will be 'chosen' by the F1 Bosses. Ideally the President should have his finger on the pulse of all Motorsport - not just the chosen sport!

It is inevitable that whoever is chosen will have their favourite form(s) of motorsport, though, and that F1 will always have some degree of prominence in whatever the FIA president does because of its higher global profile. This is only natural, after all.

[ShiftingGears]

4) There will be no criminal action, as law has not been broken.


...Except by News of The World, for privacy infringement.



I refuse to believe there is noone more capable of running the FIA than Max Mosely.

[Garry Walker]

...Except by News of The World, for privacy infringement.

I understood the original post as criminal action taken against Max.

[ShiftingGears]

I understood the original post as criminal action taken against Max.

As did I. I was pointing out who's really in the wrong in this scenario.

[AndyRAC]

...Except by News of The World, for privacy infringement.



I refuse to believe there is noone more capable of running the FIA than Max Mosely.

I'd give it to Richard Parry-Jones - good overall Motorsport knowledge and a car industry 'Big hitter'!!

What more d'you want??

[markabilly]

The honda, toyota and other manufacturer comments would seem to be the point. They will not want their image sullied which could well hurt profits. The FIA and F1 are money and revenue driven.The good of the sport is just another way of saying is it profitable?

The same is true for political connections that the FIA and F1 rely on to make their races into big showy "events". Politicans worried about how the news will be slanting their coverage if they are seen in the same room or supporting Formula One.

If the revenue remains unaffected, then there will be no changes.
if revenue will be affected, then the changes at the top will be inevtiable.

Morals and such will have nothing to do with it, except to provide the "appearance" and "image". Whoever replaces max will probably need to be prepared for a thorugh examination and focus on his personal, private life.

Someone such as JYS or Damon Hill seem to have that appearance on the outside but will probably not be in the running. That leaves someone such as Todt or RD, who have a big name, but seemingly no personal issues that would be image harming.

F1 is by far the biggest activity for the FIA, and the choice will relate very much to F1, as well as to what bernie wants.
Just my guess.

[markabilly]

The difficulty here is separating the man from the job. Max Mosley, as President of the FIA, represents the FIA. His actions, related to his job or otherwise, reflect back on the FIA which is a worldwide organisation deeply involved in motorsport and the car industry generally.

There have been questions over the years about the way F1 is run, and some of that has been related to MM personally, as well as his long-time relationship with Bernie. Again, because of MM's role, that reflects back on the FIA as an organisation.

1999!!


Unfortunately while my opinion firmly remains that it should not be that way (as does a certain modarator named Pino as well as others), the inclusion of his personal life would seem to be the way the job functions. Like it or NOT like it.

The question as before, will be how is revenue to be affected, if any. In the corporate world, all sorts of words and prinicples are bandied about and preached, but the bottom line is always profit. Never ever do something to hurt profits--indeed be and remain a strong contributor to profits--- and one can do whatever.

[ArrowsFA1]

According to grandprix.com (http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns20193.html):

The key question from a motor racing perspective is whether the allegations and the reactions that have followed mean that Mosley can continue to do his job as FIA President. A letter from the Crown Prince of Bahrain asking him not to attend the Grand Prix this weekend was a clear sign yesterday that the argument that he could march on regardless was not going to fly. If doors are closing in the face of the FIA President he cannot do his job properly and thus must resign.

[BDunnell]

Personally, there are people I would consider more able to take the moral high ground on such matters than the Crown Prince of Bahrain, a nation that is hardly a bastion of human rights.

[cjent]

For the good of the sport, and the FIA, MM must go.
If you chose a public life, your privacy is no longer.

[Roamy]

I am glad to hear teams are stepping up. Well they should

[tintop]

I know the last thread on Max was closed but I think that the wider question of the FIA and it's credibility needs to be discussed.

The FIA and it's relationship with F1 should be mutually respectful and conducive to the good of the sport and safety of the participants.

It is my opinion that the relationship has been brought into question.

Why?

1. The relationship between FIA and FOM is too close. Max and Bernie are seen as one and the same, making decisions that appear to be based on commercial rationale rather than for the good of the sport.

2. It is perceived by a lot of people that the FIA favor Ferrari.

3. The head of the FIA is known more for his personal vendettas (i.e. Ron Dennis) and verbal attacks (i.e. JYS) than for anything constructive.

4. Leaving out his father's political views and here say, Max Mosely has been publicly exposed using prostitutes (which may result in criminal action).

5. There have been numerous examples of mismanagement / poor decision making that have damaged the sport and even brought it into disrepute.

6. F1, in recent years, has been allowed to deteriorate as a sporting spectacle by FIA decisions and legislation that has consistently been detrimental to good racing.

So, at the very least, I believe Max needs to be replaced by a figurehead who commands respect throughout the sport and hopefully, the relationship between the FIA and F1 can be rebuilt.


:up: Excellent points. The suggestions that Max and Bernie are merely very public representatives of larger bodies rather than primary influences and decision makers, is just silly. Equally silly are attempts to change the discussion to one about Max vs. Dennis or whether Max technically committed any crimes. Neither is the point, if the allegations are true, the man isn't fit to stay in office, and the subsequent break-up of the less than arm's length relationship between Max and Bernie would be healthy for the sport.

[trumperZ06]

:dozey: As expected...

The heat is starting to RATCHET UP...

from the disclosure of Max's egregious sexual activities...

which has shocked those who are directly involved in Formula One.

Soon, Ole Maxie will find himself completely ostracized by:

The active participants
Sponsors
Racing Organizers
Governments
Press
and Fans

MAX shoud resign immediately...

his heinous actions and exposure...

will result in this situation only getting UGLIER...

as the story continues to draw attention to the Sport!!!

:s mokin: Trumper

[Knock-on]

How long can the FIA put up with this debacle?

Even Drivers are referring to the incident.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=34352

Max releases a "personal" statement in response to BMW and Merc that sounds very much that the manufacturers wartime role is in some way influences their press release.


"Given the history of BMW and Mercedes Benz, particularly before and during the Second World War, I fully understand why they would wish to strongly distance themselves from what they rightly describe as the disgraceful content of these publications.

"Unfortunately, they did not contact me before putting out their statement to ask whether the content was in fact true,"

Max has said that this content is disgraceful but alludes that the content is fabricated in some way.

We can only conclude that if the content is proven, then the international condemnation from Manufacturers, Drivers, Sport Officials, Host Governments and the public will leave the FIA with no choice but to sack him.

Then, let us hope that the future role of the FIA in F1 is examined and adjusted so that this incestuous relationship is not allowed to re-occur because at the moment, the personal life of the President of the FIA is severely impacting on the credibility of F1 which is wrong.

BTW, to clarify for those that have difficulty reading my posts (Gary and ioan I think ;) ), I never suggested Ron head up the FIA. I said that I have no problem with Todt running the FIA but would like to see Ron heading up a F1 official management panel to act as an unbiased separator between the FIA and FOM acting for the general good of the sport. I also said that Ferrari fans wont like it but that Ron is hugely respected throughout the sport as highlighted by his recent lecture and standing ovation. Hope that clarifies my views :)

[Tazio]

How long can the FIA put up with this debacle?

Even Drivers are referring to the incident.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=34352

Max releases a "personal" statement in response to BMW and Merc that sounds very much that the manufacturers wartime role is in some way influences their press release.



Max has said that this content is disgraceful but alludes that the content is fabricated in some way.

We can only conclude that if the content is proven, then the international condemnation from Manufacturers, Drivers, Sport Officials, Host Governments and the public will leave the FIA with no choice but to sack him.

Then, let us hope that the future role of the FIA in F1 is examined and adjusted so that this incestuous relationship is not allowed to re-occur because at the moment, the personal life of the President of the FIA is severely impacting on the credibility of F1 which is wrong.

BTW, to clarify for those that have difficulty reading my posts (Gary and ioan I think ;) ), I never suggested Ron head up the FIA. I said that I have no problem with Todt running the FIA but would like to see Ron heading up a F1 official management panel to act as an unbiased separator between the FIA and FOM acting for the general good of the sport. I also said that Ferrari fans wont like it but that Ron is hugely respected throughout the sport as highlighted by his recent lecture and standing ovation. Hope that clarifies my views :) That son of a gun " got killed in Viet Nam and didn't even know it"(Metaphorically speaking of course)
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66307
THis is the meeting that seals the deal!
Hey Max "Spank You Very Much"

[Knock-on]

Update

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66307

Extraordinary FIA meeting called by Mosley.

He is planning on taking action against TNoTW so we will at least find out the credibility of the story one way or another :D

However, if Mosley doesn't proceed with Court action, then it stands to reason that the story is accepted in it's entirety.

[ArrowsFA1]

Update

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66307

Extraordinary FIA meeting called by Mosley.
A smart political move in many ways. The remit of the meeting according to the report is to discuss "the widespread publicity following an apparently illegal invasion of the FIA President's privacy".

[Tazio]

A smart political move in many ways. The remit of the meeting according to the report is to discuss "the widespread publicity following an apparently illegal invasion of the FIA President's privacy".No originally posted by me!

[Knock-on]

No originally posted by me!

So it was, you must have submitted it while I was typing because I checked before I compiled the post that it wasn't posted :laugh:

Beat me by seconds lol

[Tazio]

So it was, you must have submitted it while I was typing because I checked before I compiled the post that it wasn't posted :laugh:

Beat me by seconds lolThat happened to me a while back the difference was 1 minute
that time too
Cheers My Man

[ArrowsFA1]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66307
THis is the meeting that seals the deal!
A smart political move in many ways. The remit of the meeting according to the report is to discuss "the widespread publicity following an apparently illegal invasion of the FIA President's privacy".

[BDunnell]

Update

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66307

Extraordinary FIA meeting called by Mosley.

He is planning on taking action against TNoTW so we will at least find out the credibility of the story one way or another :D

However, if Mosley doesn't proceed with Court action, then it stands to reason that the story is accepted in it's entirety.

As I mentioned before in the other thread, that's not necessarily the case. It may just be that the risk of further embarrassment and the risk of losing the case are too great to proceed, even though bits of the story may have been incorrect. There may have been enough that was correct to make legal action unadvisable. In fact, very few famous people who are caught in tabloid 'stings' or have lurid details of their private lives plastered over the papers end up sueing.

The problem now for the FIA is whether the humiliating nature of the story is too embarrassing for the organisation, even though there was an invasion of privacy.

[Sleeper]

The problem is that Max Mosely hsa made the position of president for the FIA almost directly responsible for F1. He doesnt make all the decisions himself, no one does in any of the FIA sanctioned sports, but here he tells the sport the direction it will take and then deligates to "working groupes" to get the rules written up to get there. The fact that he has a distressingly close relationship with Bernie regarding the running of the sports commercial side, a split made necessary by an EU ruleing nearly a decade ago, hasnt helped in the matter of the FIA being percieved as being directly responsible for the F1. This doesnt happen with WTCC, WRC, GT's, Prototypes etc as they are all run by specially appointed bosses like Morie Chandler and Stephan Rattle. I think we need FISA back, but preferably bot with someone like Ballister (sp?) in charge.

[Wilderness]

This "problem" will not go away as easily as Mr. Mosley would like. Now funds that could have easily been put to better use will be spent by the FIA in a futile defense of the body's president for his personal infringements. How much further can this go? How many other skeletons are in Mr. Mosley's closet and how many people are holdiing it over him? Blackmail "dues" aren't always monetary...

On a side query, how were the tape 'actresses' and hotel room being paid? Were these being expensed back to FIA official business, or were they trully personal expenses?

[BDunnell]

How much further can this go? How many other skeletons are in Mr. Mosley's closet and how many people are holdiing it over him?

It is not unknown for 'follow-ups' to be published. He will have to convince the FIA that nothing of the sort will happen. And even then his stock has fallen, even amongst people in high places who have previously supported him. This may be the case within the FIA itself.

[Garry Walker]

On a side query, how were the tape 'actresses' and hotel room being paid? Were these being expensed back to FIA official business, or were they trully personal expenses?

Post your evidence of it being paid by FIA or simply admit you were making up things.

[Tazio]

Post your evidence of it being paid by FIA or simply admit you were making up things.Yea'!

[Wilderness]

Post your evidence of it being paid by FIA or simply admit you were making up things.
I knew I should have kept you in my ignore list. Look up the word 'query' and what the symbol '?' mean.

[Knock-on]

It now turns into a war of words between Max and the Manufacturers. :(

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66308

This CANNOT be allowed to continue.

[Knock-on]

As I mentioned before in the other thread, that's not necessarily the case. It may just be that the risk of further embarrassment and the risk of losing the case are too great to proceed, even though bits of the story may have been incorrect. There may have been enough that was correct to make legal action unadvisable. In fact, very few famous people who are caught in tabloid 'stings' or have lurid details of their private lives plastered over the papers end up sueing.

The problem now for the FIA is whether the humiliating nature of the story is too embarrassing for the organisation, even though there was an invasion of privacy.

Well, $100m will buy an awful lot of legal representation lol

:laugh:

[Dave B]

I'm not comfortable with MM dragging up the "history of BMW and Mercedes Benz, particularly before and during the Second World War". It was 60 years ago for goodness sake!

Given the NOTW's track record I'm prepared to believe that the whole "Nazi" like was a fabrication, but at no point has Max ever attempted to deny that an event took place which was likely to bring the sport into disrepute.

What he gets up to in his private life is up to him, but I struggle to see how he can remain in a position of responsibilty now that this matter has become so public. And reading that back I do realise how hypocritical that sounds. :s

[gloomyDAY]

Time for a meeting with the FIA. (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66307)

The verdict?

http://www.theboxset.com/images/reviewcaptures/892cap012.jpg

It now turns into a war of words between Max and the Manufacturers. :(

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66308

This CANNOT be allowed to continue.

Funny notion of a 'war of words' you've got there, since Thiessen states -

"This entire issue is in focus now, but what shouldn't be neglected is it certainly looks like a trap. And that is something which in our view is not acceptable either."

That looks like a statement with some degree of potential unity.

That said, I do think that Max should now resign. Which is what I thought on Sunday morning. He has shown that he is in a position to be blackmailed, which is not a position that the FIA president should be in.

[Garry Walker]

I knew I should have kept you in my ignore list. Look up the word 'query' and what the symbol '?' mean.

Side-query - is it true that Tony Blair regularly beats up his wife?
See the word query and the symbol "?"

Does that make the completely baseless assumption, which has zero proof, any less idiotic?


I think it is all pointing to Max unfortunately going down, but rest assured, he will fight and he will fight big. I hope he will nail the people behind this and bigtime. He certainly has the resources and the intelligence.

[Tazio]

I love it when Garry shows up!
It's like a neutron bomb exploding! :p :

[Tazio]

Side-query - is it true that Tony Blair regularly beats up his wife?
See the word query and the symbol "?"

Does that make the completely baseless assumption, which has zero proof, any less idiotic?


I think it is all pointing to Max unfortunately going down, but rest assured, he will fight and he will fight big. I hope he will nail the people behind this and bigtime. He certainly has the resources and the intelligence.
I have a feeling I'm about to close another thread. Puritans! To me it is a little more than ironic that the home of the brave is the bastion of this prolific organism. I call it an organism because once spewed upon our shores it slowly yet methodically cultivated itself. I believe I can tie into this subject mater insightfully by presenting two seemingly unconnected events that now define Western Civilization as it currently exists Mods stay with me please because this is on subject! Why are French Canadians Exotic, and plentiful. They would be a hell of a lot more plentiful if certain world events happened differently. The moral philosophy of the British Colonial was you are Anglo the natives are savage. It was by order of the Church of England supported by the Crown, that it stays that way!
The French Colonials labored under no such restriction. In fact they were not only permitted to breed with Native Americans they were encouraged to do "it"
And.... Do "it" like wild Indians. Having been defeated by the British regulars as well as British colonials. And ironically Native Americans. Their influence in America (I'm including "the great state of Canada" The French went on to fight proxy wars with the U.K. (the American Revolution is a one that comes to mind.) As it bankrupted France, and led directly to the French Revolution. Puritanism proved to be the "righteous edge" the "determining factor" desirable on many levels. In its defense certain levels were, and are superior to lesser-regimented behavior. "The great state of England" has endured, and managed its empire better than a lot of people would like to admit.
The Great War fought mostly by Austrians Italians Belgians Poles though in larger numbers by Great Britain (In that group I include Indians Canadians New Zealander Australians and so forth.) Russians, Germans, and French. Towards the end of the conflict the land of the brave got involved. After the devastating defeat of Austria-Hungary, and Germany, the Italians the French and the Russians had a smorgasbord of a land grab Especially the Italians. But the real winners were the previously puritanical Americans because they brought back the greatest booty of all. It was well known in Europe as the "French Kiss" Indescribably wicked by puritanical belief, opinions, and propriety!
Ever since that first doughboy came back to the land of the brave. The "kiss"
Has symbolized, depending on your disposition, the dividing line. I thought that Max was smart enough to know that you take that kind of behavior pervert it times 1,000 to Thailand. The problem is it wouldn't be degrading or meaningful enough there! And where is the fun in that.
Jimmy Cagney said the first rule of committing a successful crime is. “Never work in your own backyard”

[wmcot]

That is contentious.

Remember who it was that underhandedly manipulated a courtroom into allowing some "cheaters" continue racing in 1994.

AND in 2007!

[Big Ben]

Side-query - is it true that Tony Blair regularly beats up his wife?
See the word query and the symbol "?"

Does that make the completely baseless assumption, which has zero proof, any less idiotic?


I think it is all pointing to Max unfortunately going down, but rest assured, he will fight and he will fight big. I hope he will nail the people behind this and bigtime. He certainly has the resources and the intelligence.

Your side query doesn´t make me think Blair regularly beats up his wife but this is probably because I´m smart unlike...

query

• noun (pl. queries) 1 a question, especially one expressing doubt. 2 chiefly Printing a question mark.


question

• noun 1 a sentence worded or expressed so as to obtain information. 2 a doubt. 3 the raising of a doubt or objection: he obeyed without question. 4 a problem requiring resolution. 5 a matter or issue depending on conditions: it’s only a question of time before something changes.

assumption

• noun 1 a thing that is assumed to be true. 2 the action of assuming responsibility or control.

If you´re still confused I´ll try explain it to you if you want.

[Garry Walker]

Your side query doesn´t make me think Blair regularly beats up his wife but this is probably because I´m smart unlike...

query

• noun (pl. queries) 1 a question, especially one expressing doubt. 2 chiefly Printing a question mark.


question

• noun 1 a sentence worded or expressed so as to obtain information. 2 a doubt. 3 the raising of a doubt or objection: he obeyed without question. 4 a problem requiring resolution. 5 a matter or issue depending on conditions: it’s only a question of time before something changes.

assumption

• noun 1 a thing that is assumed to be true. 2 the action of assuming responsibility or control.

If you´re still confused I´ll try explain it to you if you want.

It seems you are confused. Take a look at why I posted what I posted by looking at who I quoted and what that person said.

[BDunnell]

I'm not comfortable with MM dragging up the "history of BMW and Mercedes Benz, particularly before and during the Second World War". It was 60 years ago for goodness sake!

I agree. Not a sensible sentence to include.

[BDunnell]

He has shown that he is in a position to be blackmailed, which is not a position that the FIA president should be in.

He hasn't shown that he's in a position to be blackmailed, though, has he? He's shown he's susceptible to getting himself into a highly questionable situation, and made an almighty error of judgment, but there's no question of blackmail or anything similar.

[N. Jones]

Maybe I'm showing my ignorance here, but considering this whole thing started in a tabloid, has it been proven that the gentleman in question really is Max Mosley?

[Wilderness]

BDunnell, blackmail happens bacause people want/need to keep embarrasing information from getting public. Nobody wears their position of being blackmailed "on their sleeves." Just the opposite.

Jones, the only denial by Mr. Mosley is the Nazi allegations, not the participation in this escapade.

[trumperZ06]

A smart political move in many ways. The remit of the meeting according to the report is to discuss "the widespread publicity following an apparently illegal invasion of the FIA President's privacy".

;) Or it simply may be an action taken in desperation !!!

:dozey: Ole Maxie is lashing out in all directions, bringing up Nazi Germany before and during WWII...

including Mercedes and BMW in the same sentence.

Then goes on... implying he was "set-up" and complains about an...

"apparently illegal invasion of the FIA President's privacy" !!!

It's Max's own perversive actions that have caused this problem...

Unfortunately for Max.... he got caught !!!

[N. Jones]

BDunnell, blackmail happens bacause people want/need to keep embarrasing information from getting public. Nobody wears their position of being blackmailed "on their sleeves." Just the opposite.

Jones, the only denial by Mr. Mosley is the Nazi allegations, not the participation in this escapade.
I'm confused.... don't they both go together?

[BDunnell]

BDunnell, blackmail happens bacause people want/need to keep embarrasing information from getting public. Nobody wears their position of being blackmailed "on their sleeves." Just the opposite.


But, to be fair to Mosley, there is no evidence of blackmail in this instance.

[Wilderness]

But, to be fair to Mosley, there is no evidence of blackmail in this instance.
Correct. My point is, just because sombody seems to "have it together", doesn't mean they do. Who ever thought Max was going to get caught in this scandal last week?

[Bagwan]

This is like some crazy "B" movie script .
Ya just can't make up stuff this good .

I want to get to the last scene , where we find out just who paid for the sting .

[SGWilko]

where we find out just who paid for the sting .

Trudy Styler. ;)

[Activediffsonly]

I agree. Not a sensible sentence to include.

That was a JYS "halfwit" style beligerent comment, and a very thinly veiled insult. Yet more innapropriate behaviour from the president of a global organisation. So BMW and Mercedes Benz manufactured vehicles for the Nazi's during the war? well of course they did, so did porsche. I think its called "the war effort".

Now the teams have realised he is not going to have the decency to resign, they are forcing the issue, even if he survives it, he'll not run for another term now. Bring on Parry-jones i say.

[Valve Bounce]

Poll please pino on the following:

Should Max:

1 Stand down temporarily from his position as President of the FIA
2. Resign Immediately
3. Remain as President.

[Tazio]

I placed my vote based on the lack of a proper protical presented by the options given. Who does the job go to with out the benefit of a thourough backround investigation/psychological screening. If Max's replacement turns out to be the re-incarnation of Caligula? May God have mercy and think about not Damning your eternal soul!

[UKOG~Will]

He should resign. End of. You can't get away with doing something like that nowadays.

[Mihai]

Although it's time for him to go, I feel simpathetic for MM. Imagine your most embarrasing secret being revealed on the peak of your career and all the people you rely on have seen it. His credibility is below zero and he is asked by the crown prince of Bahrain not to show up in his country.

Mosley was a charismatic leader of the FIA and a very convincing one. I watched his interview on the BBC on issues such as the McLaren spy scandal and at least for a few days he changed my thoughts. If another F1 scandal would emerge this year, I don't think people will find suitable that a person like Max with a-now-questionable-morality should be the judge.

[Wilderness]

While MM should resign immediately (my vote), he will drag this fight to the end as, in his view, he has not fulfilled his destiny. It will be awgly and pathetic.

[Mihai]

Maybe I'm showing my ignorance here, but considering this whole thing started in a tabloid, has it been proven that the gentleman in question really is Max Mosley?

Well, MM admited that it was his a$$ that was being spanked by the prostitutes in the footage. http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g202/gr8link/orn/00.gif

[markabilly]

Max's first statement does not deny his being in the video, nor does the second. Read the first statement carefully and you will see he is denying a certain "claim" or "content" (i presume he really means context) asserted by the article as to what his behavior was alleged to represent---as though that somehow really matters with politicans, corporate marketing and the general public.

I still remain steadfast that this stuff should have nothing to do with whether he goes or stays, but I have also acknowledged the "reality of the real world".......

To put it simply, it does not really matter what I think, because it will be governed by public perception and the fears of politicans who will not want some newspaper media slant putting them into the same light.

The FIA and F1 can not properly function with this hanging around. As Thessen has responded back to MM:




"And secondly we have not commented on the substance and the question of whether it is true or not. We have commented on the public perception of the situation. And that doesn't need any discussion or explanation. The purpose of our statement is to make clear where our company stands."

So I am compelled to vote Max should go based on this "public perception" of politicans, corporations etc and so forth. Like it or not, for reasons having nothing to do with his on the job performance, if he does not go willingly, at some point the forces of the 'public perception" will force him to go with far more pain and misery for formula One :down: .

[trumperZ06]

:dozey: Thessen has stated what many here have already concluded...


see the pole results.

:p : Mad Max has been Tried & Found GUILTY...

in the court of Public Opinion !!!

The question is...

:rolleyes: How in the hell do you get him to leave ???

[Mikeall]

No one related to Max Mosely and the FIA wanted to know about his sex life until it was thrust in front of them and no one had any desire to judge it.

Falsely accusing someone of being a Nazi, and broadcasting a video of someone engaged in sex acts or foreplay or whatever is seriously inappropriate and wrong.

[trumperZ06]

No one related to Max Mosely and the FIA wanted to know about his sex life until it was thrust in front of them and no one had any desire to judge it.

Falsely accusing someone of being a Nazi, and broadcasting a video of someone engaged in sex acts or foreplay or whatever is seriously inappropriate and wrong.


;) You can't trust...

your lying Eyes !!!

:rolleyes: Or... watch the Video !!!

:dozey: Ahh... and members of the FIA here in the States...

won't be dis-appointed to see Max go !!!

He disrupted the Indy F-1 race & threatened to Sanction all FIA events over the tire flap !!!

[Tazio]

He will be pinning his hopes of survival on a belief that, without the Nazi connotations, which appeared to form such an explosive link to his family's history, this would be just another sex scandal, and an unwarranted invasion of privacy to boot

[trumperZ06]

He will be pinning his hopes of survival on a belief that, without the Nazi connotations, which appeared to form such an explosive link to his family's history, this would be just another sex scandal, and an unwarranted invasion of privacy to boot

;) For those that have watched the Video and looked at the "still clips", it's plainly evident that concentration camp prison uniforms/costumes from vintage WWII were worn. Some of the conversation is in German and actions minic prison methods from that era.

:dozey: I mentioned earlier... that even though Max strongly denies any WWII/Nazi connection... he's gonna have a tuff sell... when one looks at the video scenes.

[Tazio]

;) For those that have watched the Video and looked at the "still clips", it's plainly evident that concentration camp prison uniforms/costumes from vintage WWII were worn. Some of the conversation is in German and actions minic prison methods from that era.

:dozey: I mentioned earlier... that even though Max strongly denies any WWII/Nazi connection... he's gonna have a tuff sell... when one looks at the video scenes.Yes I'm just reporting the news over here! I realize now that I didn't include the link to what I gave a sampling of what I thought was a pretty good read Here it is sorry I didn't meant o argue that angle, only to as you put it slightly differently. It's gona' be a real hard sell ;)
http://sport.guardian.co.uk/columnists/story/0,,2270824,00.html

[Roamy]

lets have a pool to determine how much longer he make it

[Tazio]

lets have a pool to determine how much longer he make itWith real freakin' dough

[Hondo]

Max needs to resign now. Right or wrong, the more public and powerful a figure is, the more their personal life becomes open to examination. It's not too much of a reach to consider that this sort of conduct has been known about by others within the sport and industry and that the possibility of public exposure previously has had an influence on the decisions that Max has made as president of the FIA. There is also the possibility that this is only the tip of the iceberg and knowledge of additional unsavory items as yet unknown to the public may still allow for future influence.

It would be best all around, especially for the FIA, for Max to resign.

[wmcot]

I want to start by stating that Max's private life is none of my business. Furthermore, I don't approve of the methods used to obtain the "evidence" in question (which I have not watched, nor will I, BTW.)

Having said that, I believe that now that the evidence is public, there is no way to undo it. Max, himself, does not deny that the events happened, only that they were obtained without his permission (He probably has a good legal case, there.) But, legally obtained or not, his actions have damaged the image of the sport much as they would any large international company.

I believe that he has no choice but to step down for the good of the sport and pursue his legal actions in private, without causing further embarrassment to the sport. If not, I can see this issue clouding this season of F1 as much as the "Stepneygate" affair clouded last season.

I'd rather concentrate on a full season of racing than the court and/or tabloid proceedings of Max Moseley...

[ArrowsFA1]

What he gets up to in his private life is up to him, but I struggle to see how he can remain in a position of responsibilty now that this matter has become so public. And reading that back I do realise how hypocritical that sounds. :s
That's a good point well made.

There are really two issues here. One is the right to privacy, and the role the media has in invading peoples privacy. The second is dealing with the fallout of a story like this appearing.

MM's private life is his private life. It is quite possible that this is not the first time he has engaged in these kind of activities, and if that is the case, it is safe to assume it has had no effect whatsoever on his ability to do the job as FIA President. Had the NOTW not published their story then we would be none the wiser.

The problem is they did publish the story. Whether we accept MM's version that he has been under surveillance by persons and for reasons unknown, or whether we assume this is the Murdoch Empire digging dirt on someone who has dared to sue them, matters little. The story, and MM's actions are now in the public domain. Perhaps those actions have been misrepresented somewhat but still the President of an organsiation like the FIA being publicly involved in this kind of thing is not good for that organisation.

I do have some sympathy for MM. His actions in themselves do not affect the FIA and they were a private matter. He has been vilified, partly through association with his father's life, which in turn has stirred up historical events which have little or nothing do do with the story, but hey, it makes a good headline.

Whatever MM does now this will be a defining moment in his life and something for which he will be remembered. From that point of view it is totally understandable that he would want to defend himself. The problem is that in doing so he is involving the FIA, because he is defending himself as the President of the FIA. That damages the organisation, and everything & everyone with which it is involved and for that reason Max Mosley should resign immediately.

[veeten]

Lies, damned lies,... and YouTube. ;) :p :

[BDunnell]

Well, the big guns have come out against Mosley now. From BBC News:

Britain's member associations of the FIA have not been drawn into the debate as yet. Three of the member groups, the MSA (Motor Sports Association), the RAC (Royal Automobile Club) and the AA (Automobile Association), refused to comment when contacted by BBC Sport.

But a spokesman for the Caravan Club, which does not expect to have a vote at the meeting, said: "Immaterial of the current situation, we feel it is time for Max Mosley to step down and have done for some time."

[markabilly]

I want to start by stating that Max's private life is none of my business. Furthermore, I don't approve of the methods used to obtain the "evidence" in question (which I have not watched, nor will I, BTW.)

Having said that, I believe that now that the evidence is public, there is no way to undo it. Max, himself, does not deny that the events happened, only that they were obtained without his permission (He probably has a good legal case, there.) But, legally obtained or not, his actions have damaged the image of the sport much as they would any large international company.

I believe that he has no choice but to step down for the good of the sport and pursue his legal actions in private, without causing further embarrassment to the sport. If not, I can see this issue clouding this season of F1 as much as the "Stepneygate" affair clouded last season.

I'd rather concentrate on a full season of racing than the court and/or tabloid proceedings of Max Moseley...




There are really two issues here. One is the right to privacy, and the role the media has in invading peoples privacy. The second is dealing with the fallout of a story like this appearing.

MM's private life is his private life. It is quite possible that this is not the first time he has engaged in these kind of activities, and if that is the case, it is safe to assume it has had no effect whatsoever on his ability to do the job as FIA President. Had the NOTW not published their story then we would be none the wiser.

The problem is they did publish the story. Whether we accept MM's version that he has been under surveillance by persons and for reasons unknown, or whether we assume this is the Murdoch Empire digging dirt on someone who has dared to sue them, matters little. The story, and MM's actions are now in the public domain. Perhaps those actions have been misrepresented somewhat but still the President of an organsiation like the FIA being publicly involved in this kind of thing is not good for that organisation.

I do have some sympathy for MM. His actions in themselves do not affect the FIA and they were a private matter. He has been vilified, partly through association with his father's life, which in turn has stirred up historical events which have little or nothing do do with the story, but hey, it makes a good headline.

Whatever MM does now this will be a defining moment in his life and something for which he will be remembered. From that point of view it is totally understandable that he would want to defend himself. The problem is that in doing so he is involving the FIA, because he is defending himself as the President of the FIA. That damages the organisation, and everything & everyone with which it is involved and for that reason Max Mosley should resign immediately.

Pretty much sums it up for me.

And yes, in some ways it is a hypocritical, but it is also a clear KNOWN danger associated with public life, that one's private life, the very most private portions of one's private life, will become considered open season and fair game by media elements, be it Princess Diana, her children, Paris Hilton, Britney Spears, a sports hero, some politican or corporate head of a large company or anyone else the monent they show up in the view of the public.

It is one of the costs of fame. It should not be that way, but so it is.

And once the stuff is shown...............

[SGWilko]

Well, the big guns have come out against Mosley now. From BBC News:

Britain's member associations of the FIA have not been drawn into the debate as yet. Three of the member groups, the MSA (Motor Sports Association), the RAC (Royal Automobile Club) and the AA (Automobile Association), refused to comment when contacted by BBC Sport.

But a spokesman for the Caravan Club, which does not expect to have a vote at the meeting, said: "Immaterial of the current situation, we feel it is time for Max Mosley to step down and have done for some time."

The Caravan Club!? :eek: Oh well, that's in then isn't it? A bunch of Kia diesel drivers, towing their houses behind them, holding the rest of us up, want him to step down? - he's got no chance.... :laugh:

[SGWilko]

Pretty much sums it up for me.

And yes, in some ways it is a hypocritical, but it is also a clear KNOWN danger associated with public life, that one's private life, the very most private portions of one's private life, will become considered open season

What happened to the UK paper that printed the transcript of the Camilla Gate tapes, you know, where Charle said he wished to be reincarnated as a tampon.......?

If you can publish that about the future King, then I think Maxs' little dilemma is fair game.

You make your bed, go sleep in it big boy.....

[ArrowsFA1]

Any ideas when this meeting of the FIA that Max has called will take place? Days? Weeks?

[BDunnell]

MM's private life is his private life. It is quite possible that this is not the first time he has engaged in these kind of activities, and if that is the case, it is safe to assume it has had no effect whatsoever on his ability to do the job as FIA President.

Indeed. I am making no direct connection with Max Mosley when I say this, but newspaper 'stings' don't tend to involve getting someone involved with a situation with some prostitutes who has never shown any interest in such things before.

As I said before, I have serious concerns about the practices of some sections of the press. I don't care what people get up to in their private lives, so long as it isn't hugely illegal (I feel that the laws on prostitution should be reviewed anyway), because, to different degrees, we all say or do things that we're not proud of and which we wouldn't like to see plastered over the papers. We can't expect everyone to live the sort of life that we lead, or go along with some sort of 'standard' of behaviour, because we all have different predelictions. I am also unconcerned about the moral aspects of these things, because it doesn't really matter. There was an awful, bland quote from Lewis Hamilton in one of the papers this morning about younger people looking up to their seniors, and I just thought, 'I don't care'.

However, there are limits, and the 'Nazi' bit of this story pushes it beyond the pale. I suspect we will never really know whether this is true, because I doubt any case will come to court, but even so the notion that Mosley will escape censure is not credible. I reckon that further stuff will come out about him in the weeks to come, adding to his and the FIA's embarrassment. This is the crucial thing. Can he and the organisation cope with the humiliation of what happened? I doubt it.

On balance, I think he should go, though my reason for this view stems just as much (if not more) from other aspects of Mosley's conduct as FIA boss as well as Sunday's revelations.

[SGWilko]

This, for me, seals his fate...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66324

He should go now, because if he tries to tough it out now, he'll be crucified...

[Tazio]

This, for me, seals his fate...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66324

He should go now, because if he tries to tough it out now, he'll be crucified...I disagree! I think Max should leave after he has his say. I'd like to hear his act of contrition. And, I think he needs to make one for himself to god, and give me a chance to see if he is indeed an evil man, or a confused horn-dog. JMHO

[trumperZ06]

Any ideas when this meeting of the FIA that Max has called will take place? Days? Weeks?


:dozey: F-1 Live's web site...

A spokesman for the governing body says...

The meeting will take place in about a month.

The FIA has to fly in ~222 delegates & make arrangements to accommodate them in Paris.

The cost is projected to be ~ $ 2 million.

Max seems to have attempted to buy himself time, hoping the controvesy would settle down,

But with F-1 team manufacturers, national clubs, senior motorsports people, and the press continuing to comment on Mosley's egregious conduct,

The pressure continues to RACHET UP !!!

The question is... can the FIA delay/stall any action...

waiting for the meeting to happen?

[veeten]

Once again, as in many 'scandals' of the past few years, it's the perception, rather than the actual events, that spell doom for the standing representative.
Be it politics, business, or even religion, if said person has done any type of inapropriate behavior in private, once it gets into the hands, or eyes, of the public, ALL previous works, no matter how noble, go flying out the window.

No matter how hard he tries, Max will be known for this last exploit than any of the other things he has done, and will be a focal point for all the ideas & proposals that were either deemed controversial or unrealistic. And as we are seeing right now, it has become grist for the mill for those that want him out to save their own interests in the sport, and those that want him gone for more 'personal' reasons.

Either way, the organization will go on, it is Mosely that is being pushed out the door, for perceptual reasons as usual.

[SGWilko]

We don't seem to have heard from Max's best mate Stoddy yet, have we? That ought to reveal a good 'sound bite' when it is forthcoming!!!

[veeten]

We don't seem to have heard from Max's best mate Stoddy yet, have we? That ought to reveal a good 'sound bite' when it is forthcoming!!!

more petrol for your bonfire, sir?... :p :

[markabilly]

We don't seem to have heard from Max's best mate Stoddy yet, have we? That ought to reveal a good 'sound bite' when it is forthcoming!!!
if you look I beleive at pitpass, there is some stuff from paul Stoddard that seems to question some of his behavior as though politely trying to distance himself. If not there, I am sure some of you internent hounds can find it.

[Tazio]

Once again, as in many 'scandals' of the past few years, it's the perception, rather than the actual events, that spell doom for the standing representative.
Be it politics, business, or even religion, if said person has done any type of inapropriate behavior in private, once it gets into the hands, or eyes, of the public, ALL previous works, no matter how noble, go flying out the window.

No matter how hard he tries, Max will be known for this last exploit than any of the other things he has done, and will be a focal point for all the ideas & proposals that were either deemed controversial or unrealistic. And as we are seeing right now, it has become grist for the mill for those that want him out to save their own interests in the sport, and those that want him gone for more 'personal' reasons.

Either way, the organization will go on, it is Mosely that is being pushed out the door, for perceptual reasons as usual.Very well stated! about the most equidable comment I've read since this thing grew horns!

[555-04Q2]

Where's the "Shoot himself in the head and get it over with" option in the poll :?: :?: :?:

[DonnieDarco]

He's already shot himself in the foot, I suspect he feels that's plenty :D

[Tazio]

He's already shot himself in the foot, I suspect he feels that's plenty :D Allegedly :p :

[Big Ben]

:dozey: F-1 Live's web site...

A spokesman for the governing body says...

The meeting will take place in about a month.

The FIA has to fly in ~222 delegates & make arrangements to accommodate them in Paris.

The cost is projected to be ~ $ 2 million.

Max seems to have attempted to buy himself time, hoping the controvesy would settle down,

But with F-1 team manufacturers, national clubs, senior motorsports people, and the press continuing to comment on Mosley's egregious conduct,

The pressure continues to RACHET UP !!!

The question is... can the FIA delay/stall any action...

waiting for the meeting to happen?

So Max´ prostitutes costs FIA $ 2 million? Money wisely spend if you ask me. Since I have my doubts Max is going to pay for this I´ll take it as another proof of how decent person he is.

He also stated there´s nothing wrong with what he did. Prostitution is something normal to him. I don´t know exactly where did the whole thing happened but as far as I know prostitution is illegal in most of the countries. At least in the normal ones. And even if it is legal this doesn´t make it any better.

However, Max knows how to handle this. He knows self indulgence goes very well with this super tolerance we live in this days and he´ll continue explaining us that there´s nothing wrong for a married man to spend thousands of dollars on prostitutes to satisfy his freaky sexual preferences and he´s ready to use FIA money to defend himself.

a shameless man

[ShiftingGears]

However, Max knows how to handle this. He knows self indulgence goes very well with this super tolerance we live in this days and he´ll continue explaining us that there´s nothing wrong for a married man to spend thousands of dollars on prostitutes to satisfy his freaky sexual preferences


It ain't your damn business!

[Tazio]

It ain't your damn business!

I AGREE

[pino]

Please keep this thread clean, and that means not a single line about what Max did in private, is that clear ? Anyone who ignores my request will be temporarly banned from the forums !

The thread subject is the FIA, not Mosley's private life.

Before someone gets hurt...

[Roamy]

It ain't your damn business!

You are right as long as he keeps it private. He did not keep it private so if
I have children who are fans of F1 then it is my business. With his job comes a moral and image responsibility when in public view. He has violated this trust. Just like poor decisions in F1 he has made poor decisions in "how to buy a hooker" With his money he could have easily kept this from happening.

So as many have been saying for quite a while on this forum "Max is a Idiot"
But perhaps Jimmy Baker will come and save him!!

[SGWilko]

Now, a mans private life is technically his business right?

In the same way someone who is accused of, say rape, and is standing trial, his previous convictions can not be taken into consideration.

Stupid really, isn't it?

Max has very publically tarnished the image of the FIA with his private behaviour. Can you really expuct us to believe that he can switch off his 'off the wall' tendencies in his job?

More and more organisations are starting to bay for his head.

I mean, he had to stay away from Bahrain because the Royal Family asked him not to come, because of his actions. Can the head of the FIA be classed as anything other than a liability now?

Tic, toc, tic, toc, the clock is ticking. All these calls for him to resign will help sway the majority of those he is calling to appear in the meeting that is costing the FIA a lot of money. It's not very green either, is it, flying all these wallas over.

[BDunnell]

You are right as long as he keeps it private. He did not keep it private so if
I have children who are fans of F1 then it is my business. With his job comes a moral and image responsibility when in public view. He has violated this trust. Just like poor decisions in F1 he has made poor decisions in "how to buy a hooker" With his money he could have easily kept this from happening.

So as many have been saying for quite a while on this forum "Max is a Idiot"
But perhaps Jimmy Baker will come and save him!!

But he did keep it private. It was the newspaper that made it public. And I cannot imagine that any child seriously views the President of the FIA as a role model.

[BDunnell]

Max has very publically tarnished the image of the FIA with his private behaviour. Can you really expuct us to believe that he can switch off his 'off the wall' tendencies in his job?

Only if it represents some sort of psychological disorder is it likely to influence his work, and then not definitely. I suspect his statements and decisions (including those for which, as opposed to the scandal, I feel he should be sacked) as boss of the FIA have been unaffected by all this, and it is after all the FIA which is very definitely the subject of this thread. ;)

[SGWilko]

Only if it represents some sort of psychological disorder is it likely to influence his work, and then not definitely. I suspect his statements and decisions (including those for which, as opposed to the scandal, I feel he should be sacked) as boss of the FIA have been unaffected by all this, and it is after all the FIA which is very definitely the subject of this thread. ;)

So you don't think that, perhaps during an important meeting, his mind could drift towards a Chelsea basement flat he may or may not be intending to frequent after the meeting....

Do you see my point?

With the papers, it's fair game - Clinton, Blunkett et al. Max is no different, he just knows better than most how the law works and will attempt to use it to his advantage.....

[SGWilko]

I think I may know who grassed on Max......

[BDunnell]

So you don't think that, perhaps during an important meeting, his mind could drift towards a Chelsea basement flat he may or may not be intending to frequent after the meeting....

Do you see my point?

With the papers, it's fair game - Clinton, Blunkett et al. Max is no different, he just knows better than most how the law works and will attempt to use it to his advantage.....

Yes, but all our minds drift to other things at some point during work, whether those things include Chelsea basement flats or not. And using the law to his advantage may not work in this instance, for the reasons I gave before.

This really is a very difficult moral conundrum. I am increasingly undecided as to what I think, except that he should go anyway.

[Valve Bounce]

So far, the Auto Clubs of America, Germany, Holland and Israel have asked Max to go. I don't know if other Auto Clubs have reacted yet. I see from our poll, that the majority of members here who have voted so far wants Max to go.

You know something, this reminds me of Profumo, which eventually brought down the McMillan Government, and also resulted in Dr Ward killing himself.

[Tazio]

and also resulted in Dr Ward killing himself. That's a pleasant thought! :confused:

[Dave B]

It's proving easier getting rid of Mugabe :s

[Knock-on]

It's proving easier getting rid of Mugabe :s

PML! :laugh:

There must be a joke in there about what does Max, Mugabee and Bin Laden have in common. :D

In the coverage, it appears that there is very litle support for him. Even Ferrari who made a distinct effort not to condemn him, ended up admitting that they were not supporting him either.

A nod is as good as a wink to a blind man :)

[aryan]

The stuff of legend that would bring me out of retirement!

Private matter it might be, legal or otherwise, but nontheless it places MM in a position of potential blackmail. How many people/parties may have control over Mr. Mosley over embarrassing info? It's all clear to me now.

I said this ten years ago and continue to say it, Max and his cronies have to go.

:up: :up:

Max is in a very high profile position of an elected international body, representing millions of automobile club members around the world.

His unprofessional behaviour, his disgraceful comments about respected motorsport legends and his personal vendetta against certain team principals, make him a liability the FIA should eliminate as soon as possible.

I trust that the FIA's governing body will do just that in their extraordinary meeting.

[aryan]

Where's the "Shoot himself in the head and get it over with" option in the poll

:rotflmao: :rotflmao:

This coming from a Ferrari fan, made it double sweet! :D

[tinchote]

I don't personally like MM and I don't really care whether he stays or leaves. I personally have a strong opinion on prostitution and things like that.

But it is a personal matter, and I don't see how this can be used as an excuse to ask for his resignation. It looks like a lot of hypocrisy going on here. People are mentioning that he is married? That lots of associations are asking for his resignation? And of course none of the leaders of those associations have ever been unfaithful within their marriages? :rolleyes:

[markabilly]

Reality is not perception but perception is reality.

The latest by the parties:

Max says

"As it is, a scandal paper obtained by illegal means pictures of something I did in private which, although unacceptable to some people, was harmless and completely legal."

"It goes without saying that the so-called Nazi element is pure fabrication. This will become crystal clear when the matter comes to trial. The newspaper invented this in order to spice up their story and introduce my family background."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66370

The newspaper says:
"We absolutely refute and challenge his assertion that we have invented any elements of his depravity. Which is why we plan to send copies of our video evidence to Senate members representing the global motor-racing community, which will decide on the future of the president. Their own statutes decree anyone who inflicts "moral injury" on the FIA by "words, deeds or writings" may be expelled."
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66420

The FIA appears to be paralyzed into doing nothing, except having a meeting: "The full membership of the FIA will be invited to attend the meeting at which the widespread publicity following an apparently illegal invasion of the FIA President's privacy will be discussed."


So Max does NOT appear to be resigning anytime soon. The newspaper loves it as it gives them even more opportunity to stick it to him, in the full public view, generating more publicity for themselves. And being unwilling to back down from any of their claims as to what is on the video.

The FIA, being paralyzed by inaction, permits the controversy to do more damage by having it spend more time in front of the public view, so when it the end of Max comes, it will appear to have been forced upon them by some outside force, thereby making it appear weak and spineless, and almost a co-conspirator in the mess and unable to run its own house.

Or the FIA votes to keep him....then the public perception (regardless of reality) will be that the FIA can not even keep its own house in order and marches by the order of someone who is morally bankrupt who somehow thinks that the public will believe his story that his behavior was "completely legal" his behavior, an even worse position for the FIA to be in.

The result is that Max hopes to convince people that what he was doing was not harmful and completely legal........even if he wins a battle and keeps his job, then the FIA will pay the price with further erosion of its credibility.

Nothing like winng a battle in such a manner that it causes the war to be lost.

My wish would have been that the FIA voted out Max without any of this stuff being known or even occurring. This would have meant a real change was occurring, and the FIA was standing on its own two feet.

If and when max leaves, it will be because of something that has absolutely nothing to do with Motorsport. Per Shakespeare, the battle will be "full of sound and fury......but in the end, signifying nothing..."

:down:

[Phoenix]

If and when max leaves, it will be because of something that has absolutely nothing to do with Motorsport. Per Shakespeare, the battle will be "full of sound and fury......but in the end, signifying nothing..."

:down:

Gotta disagree with you there, too much Kool Aid I suspect...

You don't think S&M's (I assume this is OK to use, as others use McL&C without sanction) drubbing of McLaren gave him the same pleasure as some of his alleged extra curricular activities.

Also, some illegally gained evidence was used against McLaren in the Spygate affair which S&Max allowed...

But now, now Das Boot is on the other foot ;) all of a sudden evidence gained 'illegally' is not allowed.

He's living in a fantasy world isn't he, where double standards are just fine and dandy..... :down:

[markabilly]

Guess I should have said "signifying nothing meaningful as to formula one", except causing a perception of more disrespect/disgust for the FIA and certain elements of F1 for reasons having nothing to do with F1

[Phoenix]

Guess I should have said "signifying nothing meaningful as to formula one", except causing a perception of more disrespect/disgust for the FIA and certain elements of F1 for reasons having nothing to do with F1

Bless S&Max, he's been shown to have lied to his delegates, he's insulted the German marques, and no doubt severely embarassed the Japanese marques too.

Still, didn't Bernie say he wanted a good sex scandal in F1? ;)

[Mikeall]

If Max Mosely has to resign so should the prostitutes after bringing their profession into disrepute...

[Zico]

If Max Mosely has to resign so should the prostitutes after bringing their profession into disrepute...

Unsure if you are serious or not due to lack of smiley, but if you are...

You really believe both professions are comparable? :D

[Mikeall]

http://www.londonisfree.com/Images/jackdee.jpg

[wmcot]

If Max Mosely has to resign so should the prostitutes after bringing their profession into disrepute...

Actually, concerning prostitutes, isn't the proper terminology "ill-repute?" :)

[Big Ben]

I don't personally like MM and I don't really care whether he stays or leaves. I personally have a strong opinion on prostitution and things like that.

But it is a personal matter, and I don't see how this can be used as an excuse to ask for his resignation. It looks like a lot of hypocrisy going on here. People are mentioning that he is married? That lots of associations are asking for his resignation? And of course none of the leaders of those associations have ever been unfaithful within their marriages? :rolleyes:

I was talking about a man who said he had done nothing wrong and he is ready to spend a considerable amount of money to prove what?

he should just leave... IMHO

But this is a waste of time because you'll understand it your way...
... My own opinion is that the president of an organization like FIA should have some standards for himself and although many of you say that this is his private life I don't care at all. I just wonder how a man that is capable of doing this to the closest persons to himself how can he be trusted he will be an objective factor in motor sports. I think evidence show so far he wasn't.

[Knock-on]

I love the hypocrisy of the man.



Yet more reason to have a firewall between the FIA and F1 to stop them bringing the sport into disrepute again.

[Valve Bounce]

...........as more and more people call for Max to resign. Now Niki Lauda has joined Stewart and Jodie Scheckter to call for his resignation. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66470
Although most of the team principals have remained silent, maybe still feeling what Max can inflict on them if he does a Robert Mugabe, Force India's Mike Gascoyne is the exception, and his take " "If he wishes to stay, it will devalue his office down to the level at which it is perceived, which is obviously not good." just about sums it up for everyone.

We can argue on privacy grounds, unlawful or otherwise grounds, and whatever grounds any of us may come up with, but in the final analysis, Max and his position as FIA president has lost the respect of most of the important people associated with F1. I don't recall anyone associated high up in F1 has spoken up in support of his position as President of the FIA after this debacle.

[Tazio]

.. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66470
"If he wishes to stay, it will devalue his office down to the level at which it is perceived, which is obviously not good."[/b][/i] just about sums it up for everyone.

I believe this is conjecture!
I believe it is akin to the beliefs held in 2003
That Iraq would be a more efficient entity if their leader were removed.
A person’s belief is not measurable, and is not necessarily equal to or greater than the possible eventuality.

[Zico]

According to the NOTW yesterday they are going to send the full DVD to the FIA, there are also more details as we expected..

He'll be defiant to the last and drag the sport thru the mud in the process. Why cant he just do the right thing and go now?

[OutRun]

When Mosley attacked BMW and Mercedes over their WWII past he stepped out of bounds and dragged the sport into disrepute. It calls into question his future impartiality regarding the manufacturers that rightly condemned his perverted behavior.

With the world having graphic evidence of his unsavory sadomasochistic tryst with prostitutes, I wonder how Max Mosley expects to roam the paddock and smile for the cameras with government officials and F1 sponsors. There is no way that any company involved in F1 wanted to be associated with words like prostitution, nazis or sadomasochism.

[Tazio]

I find it amusing and strangly Ironic that the most vigorous Rants in this forum for Max's removal are in themselves faciast. He can't spank girls that not only like they are participating in THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. The German Faciasts of the wwII era were notoriously intollerant of people they deamed unfit, as your average fun loving Germans of the day found out,
Men were sterilized
because they fathered children that were mentally unfit.
I bet that was a potential deterant to raising a family "in the pusuit of happiness"
By todays standards those people aren't unfit. They are challenged. The Faciast knew this!

IT JUST DIDN"T LOOK GOOD FOR THERE NATIONAL IMAGE!

Sounds kind of familiar to some of the reasoning that I've heard on
this forum why Max "HAS" to go!

Pardon me for butting in though Please contiue with
your Kool Aide Social :beer:

[wmcot]

According to the NOTW yesterday they are going to send the full DVD to the FIA,

And Bernie will promptly by the rights to sell it and have all websites showing any portion of it taken down! ;)

[Valve Bounce]

And Bernie will promptly by the rights to sell it and have all websites showing any portion of it taken down! ;)

Are there any websites showing the full DVD?

[Tazio]

The worm is beggining to turn!
Reality can be a very regrettable aspect of our lives.
Here is a guy that played ball with the FIA, got what he was after,
And is thankful. It could be argued that his desire for wealth
clouds his ability to give an honest moral opinion! Or,
maybe he just thinks that, this is the way the song goes!
Take it for whatever you think it is worth!
Sincerely.... That sincere guy :p :

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12433_3399203,00.html

Force India co-owner Vijay Mallya has played down the seriousness of the scandal that has engulfed FIA president Max Mosley.
The billionaire Kingfisher Airlines supremo is of the opinion that sponsors 'don't care' about the lurid sexual allegations surrounding Mosley.
Whilst Mallya admits the recent stories published in the News of the World about Mosley are 'positively shocking', he is adamant it is a case of 'who cares?'.
"The focus and attention now is: what is Max's future?" Mallya told PA Sport.
"It isn't that the popularity of the sport or its future is in question as a result of what has happened.
"Formula One is great, growing, very popular, fantastic, so business rises above it all.

Hard nosed

"A hard-nosed businessman will make a decision on spending money in Formula One, irrespective of the Mosleys of this world. They are not going to dictate the economic benefits.
"It is very clear Formula One in general is a huge advertising platform because of the number of eyes viewing the TV, second only to the Olympics and the World Cup.
"As a businessman, I have used Formula One as a platform for the past 12 years, and now other businesses can use Force India as their platform to reach out.
"That is not going to be affected by Mosley or anybody else. I've my sponsors and they don't care.

[Valve Bounce]

It is interesting that the headline of the skysports article says that Moseley given support, whereas the article just says that Vijay couldn't care about Moseley, almost implying that Moseley is insignificant with the sponsors Vijay deals with. "They don't really know who Moseley is and they couldn't care who he is."

Well, in his sponsors' place, I wouldn't care either, as long as my products sell in India as well as overseas. Probably they couldn't care less if he is a monkey!! :rolleyes:

[TMorel]

Tazio
Did you watch the Grand Prix?
Are you posting about Force India?

I guess you're proving Mr Mallya's point, that in the big world, it doesn't matter what Max did, life - and more importantly, big business - goes on.

[Tazio]

Tazio
Did you watch the Grand Prix?
Are you posting about Force India?

I guess you're proving Mr Mallya's point, that in the big world, it doesn't matter what Max did, life - and more importantly, big business - goes on.I'm not quite sure how to take that! Could you expand?

[Tazio]

Tazio
Did you watch the Grand Prix?
Are you posting about Force India?

I guess you're proving Mr Mallya's point, that in the big world, it doesn't matter what Max did, life - and more importantly, big business - goes on.Oh I get it
Lets's see I Loved the race I'm a big Ferrari Honk!
I've been posting about force India on another thread in regaurd Christian Klien
I 'm not a big promotor of large bussiness.
So i would have to take exception to that assertion.
I would prefer that F1 goes on.
And definately regaurdless of what Max did I have every expectation of my life going on unaffected by his!

[Mikeall]

Interesting how a new ex drivers opinion appears each day. Its almost as if they're deliberately spreading them out... Once people stop talking about it the scandal is over as people forget about it and bringing teh subject up again will seem distasteful in itself.

[markabilly]

Just shows it is all about the money......................."the good of the sport" has always been about money and gee whiz, seems that is Mallya's point.

If revenue is affected, then mosley is gone. If not, then he stays. Nothing else matters. What he did, whether his privacy was violated and so on..... Nothing but the money.
probably right about that.

And that is why he has lasted as long as he has--the perception that he has been good for revenue (regardless of whether the perception is right or wrong!!!)

[Tazio]

The problem is there is not enough real news to go around in relation to the number of publications. So every one is the exact same story from let's say reuters The papers start putting a little spin on it. Then as mikeall was just saying they trot out exdrivers, wives, teammates, people suck it up and it generates revenue. If anyone wants to see this in action go to newsnow.co/uk Pick your topic (I've got f1 bookmarked) this News portal atomatically refresses evry 90 sec. It draws from over 30,000 sorces (some are blogs) You will see the exact same story 250 times usually the only difference is the title, and a little editorializing.The internet has allowed allt his trash because the more hits the site gets the more the advertisements are worth.

[MAX_THRUST]

The probelm is MAX is hoping this will go away. It's not going away until he does. If he doesn't do the right thing and resign he will cost himself money respect, his family dignity. The sport will go on and so will business but only when he goes will the story loose any worth. Save yourself from even more rubbish MAX, go.

Side note Jodi Sheckter made me laugh, "its not acceptable in this situation, had things not had the other conotations it would have been ok". Which one of his sons got caught doing the same? Withou the other conotations, Thomas or the other son. I know they lost their ride!!!!

[MAX_THRUST]

I did post some where last week watch the news of the world this weekend. Do you think if he stays we won't get another update somewhere in the paper....So yes there is a drip drip of information to keep the story alive until he goes. This is what the gutter press does.

Last year that built Lewis up next year they could rip him to pieces. Its a tough game playing with the media.

[Tazio]

Last year that built Lewis up next year they could rip him to pieces. Its a tough game playing with the media.
Boys and girls,
That's why
"Homey don't play dat!" :p :

[Mickey T]

http://www.sportspromedia.com/mosley.htm

[Tazio]

http://www.sportspromedia.com/mosley.htm
Awesome!
Just like Canadian Chicks ;)

[Tazio]

Eady is no stranger to Formula 1. He has sat in judgement on at least two legal actions involving F1 people in recent years, having heard the cases of Tony Purnell versus Business F1 magazine and a similar action involving Mosley's consultant Alan Donnelly. Would someone in the know share a little background, and insight about the relationship between this Justice, and Max?
Is this guy in Max's pocket? Or is this just his special area of jurisprudence. Justice Eady presided over legal action in the cases of Tony Purnell, and Allen Donnelly. These are two Mosley insiders. Care to enlighten an uninformed American. Thanks!
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns20226.html

The FIA President Max Mosley will be watching the courts today in London as Mr. Justice Eady considers the next round of a legal action between Mosley and News Group Newspapers Ltd in the Queens Bench Division of the High Court. Mosley won an injunction against the News of the World last week to stop the newspaper re-using the same photographs and videos that were see in its previous edition. He was not able to stop the newspaper from publishing more detailed allegations about his leisure activities.

[markabilly]

The view of JPM on the matter from nastycar land:

Question: So, Max Mosley ...
Montoya: (Laughs devilishly) OH! What about that? I loved that. I did. I did.
Question: Did you ever suspect anything like that from Max Mosley?
Montoya: What? Slap me, baby? No.
Question: Did you see the video?
Montoya: Of course I saw the video!
Question: And what did you think?
Montoya: You don't want to know.
Question: Maybe you shouldn't be laughing so much? Montoya: It is a laughing matter! You know, when I first heard about it, it was shocking. But then he decided to play it like nothing has happened and it's just so hilarious......

http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/8001776/Montoya-disagrees-with-Ganassi's-team-assessment?FSO2&ATT=MA

[markabilly]

Eady is no stranger to Formula 1. He has sat in judgement on at least two legal actions involving F1 people in recent years, having heard the cases of Tony Purnell versus Business F1 magazine and a similar action involving Mosley's consultant Alan Donnelly. Would someone in the know share a little background, and insight about the relationship between this Justice, and Max?
Is this guy in Max's pocket? Or is this just his special area of jurisprudence. Justice Eady presided over legal action in the cases of Tony Purnell, and Allen Donnelly. These are two Mosley insiders. Care to enlighten an uninformed American. Thanks!
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns20226.html

The FIA President Max Mosley will be watching the courts today in London as Mr. Justice Eady considers the next round of a legal action between Mosley and News Group Newspapers Ltd in the Queens Bench Division of the High Court. Mosley won an injunction against the News of the World last week to stop the newspaper re-using the same photographs and videos that were see in its previous edition. He was not able to stop the newspaper from publishing more detailed allegations about his leisure activities.

The judge, Mr Justice Eady, refused to grant the injunction, saying that content of the video was now so widely familiar that Mosley could no longer reasonably expect to keep it out of the public domain.
The BBC today reported the judge as saying: "I have, with some reluctance, come to the conclusion that although this material is intrusive and demeaning, and despite the fact that there is no legitimate public interest in its further publication, the granting of an order against this respondent at the present juncture would merely be a futile gesture. The dam has effectively burst."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66501

[Tazio]

The view of JPM on the matter from nastycar land:

Question: So, Max Mosley ...
Montoya: (Laughs devilishly) OH! What about that? I loved that. I did. I did.
Question: Did you ever suspect anything like that from Max Mosley?
Montoya: What? Slap me, baby? No.
Question: Did you see the video?
Montoya: Of course I saw the video!
Question: And what did you think?
Montoya: You don't want to know.
Question: Maybe you shouldn't be laughing so much? Montoya: It is a laughing matter! You know, when I first heard about it, it was shocking. But then he decided to play it like nothing has happened and it's just so hilarious......

http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/8001776/Montoya-disagrees-with-Ganassi's-team-assessment?FSO2&ATT=MA you left out the best line of the interview:

Question: How come European scandals are so good compared to what we have here in NASCAR?


Montoya: Oh my God. I don't know. I am glad we don't have scandals like that here. I was so shocked by it, when they sent it to me, I was like "Nooo, way." Now, I'm just like 'Hey, he's just an old guy trying to have some fun.'


Johnny Carson would have had a field day with this! :laugh: :rotflmao:

[pino]

Thank you guys :rolleyes: