Atkinson's third year of three year deal. Time to deliver. [Archive]

A.F.F.

17th January 2007, 19:43

Atkinson has fallen under a shadow of Hirvonen and Sordo. Last year was difficult for the whole of Subaru team. Somehow it seemed Solberg suffered even worse luck than Atkinson but either one fail to deliver.

Now, Subaru's head-man Paul Howarth has some thoughts for Atkinson.

Taken from Crash.net

Subaru's operations director, Paul Howarth has told Chris Atkinson that it is important he steps it up a notch this season - given it is his third with the team and his third full-year in the WRC.

Speaking prior to the start of the new season, which gets underway on Thursday with the Rallye Automobile Monte Carlo, Howarth added that while the Aussie has definitely shown the speed needed to match the likes of his team-mate, Petter Solberg and Marcus Gronholm and Sebastien Loeb, now they want to see some more consistency.

"Having both Petter and Chris in the team for another year is a huge bonus because it provides us with stability. Petter is the number one driver who we will try to win the championship with, while the aim with Chris is to continue his ongoing development. We expect him to deliver a high level of consistency throughout the year. It's a very important year for him, because this is his third year with the team and there's probably a little bit more pressure on him to deliver results and move forward in his experience," he confirmed to the official SWRT website.

Pressed on what sort of results he expects from Atkinson, Howarth noted that while it may be difficult for him to win, they are looking for him to get some podiums, to add to the one he achieved in Japan in 2005.

"I think we've got to see him on the podium during the season," Howarth continued. "He has shown definite speed, so if he can have consistency of that speed through an event, it will put him on the podium. It is far too early to say whether he can win this year. If you look at the pace and consistency of the top four drivers in the championship, it is very difficult to beat them so he will have to work hard."

As for this weekend's event, Howarth said that it is going to be very difficult, given the changes to the route and the addition of two night stages. He also reckons the final super special back at the Principality could provide a 'sting in the tail'.

"Monte Carlo is unlike any other rally on the WRC calendar and there are lots of variables to consider. The conditions in Valence at the moment indicate that it could be damp or even dry, and not the snow and ice we usually associate with this event, although that could change by the time the event starts.

"The two stages in the dark on Thursday night look like they will be very fast and if there's fog on any of the stages it could be a massive factor. There could be some stages where the first cars on the road are slowed by fog, but those behind get a clear run. Likewise, if the temperature is low, you may find that some sections of a stage are covered in ice, but other parts are not. It is a rally where we have to be very good at reading the conditions and that's why experienced drivers do so well there.

Simmi

17th January 2007, 19:55

Tom206wrc

17th January 2007, 20:20

I'll keep a cloth eye on him this year ;)

L5->R5/CR

17th January 2007, 20:29

If Petter can finish events on the podium or fighting for the podium, then Chris needs to get some on the events he is more adept.

I still think we have to judge Chris relative to Petter, since it is really Petter's car and Petter's team. If Petter can't win, and can't find the pace, then Chris needs to be just a few places down the order or better IMO.

Oh yeah, SuperDuperStupidRally less than 3 times in 2007 as well.

Brother John

17th January 2007, 20:46

Deliver more money maybe!? :p

EuroTroll

17th January 2007, 20:46

I'll keep a cloth eye on him this year ;)

Good Lord! What happened, Tom? And why didn't the doctor give you a glass eye? :s

:p :

FrankenSchwinn

17th January 2007, 21:59

"If you look at the pace and consistency of the top four drivers in the championship, it is very difficult to beat them so he will have to work hard."

this caught my eye.... i wonder who he is talking about..... marcus and seb are in it for sure and probably hirvonen, but is he also assuming that petter is in it or that sordo is in it?

N.O.T

17th January 2007, 22:02

As long as he pays he has nothing to deliver to keep his seat....

A.F.F.

17th January 2007, 22:35

this caught my eye.... i wonder who he is talking about..... marcus and seb are in it for sure and probably hirvonen, but is he also assuming that petter is in it or that sordo is in it?

Maybe according to him, being a topdriver, one has to be a winner. Marcus, Seb, Petter and Mikko all are :)

bda

17th January 2007, 22:54

Time to deliver indeed. He should be constantly top 6 on gravel. If Subaru can get their car sorted hopefully the drivers will start getting the results. He wont be here come '08 if he has another bad year. I feel for him a bit but he does make plenty of mistakes - something Duval has been slated for doing.

And which crappy car was it that Duval had to overdrive in order to achieve anything like a decent result, and thereby increase the chances of him making a mistake? Was it the fast and reliable Ford Focus? Or was it the remarkable Citroen Xsara?
As soon as the Subaru team can provide a car that is up to the task the results will follow - for Petter and for Chris.
If Petter can't achieve anything in the current car then neither will Chris, or anyone else for that matter.
Unfortunately for Chris I'm sure he will be made the scape goat if things go sour this year. I hope he gets a decent shot at it.

Simmi

17th January 2007, 23:01

The Subaru is gash but you cant call 3 seasons in a works team not getting a decent shot at it.

bda

17th January 2007, 23:19

How many new drivers in the WRC have performed well with less than three years under their belt? Not many.
Loeb of course, Sordo had some great results but lost his way a little last year. I could be wrong but I can't quite think of any others at the moment.
Look at the apprenticeships of the likes of McCrae, Solberg, Martin etc. all of whom made plenty of mistakes along the way.
Mikko has come of age now. He well and truly got his act together last year but how long has he been driving WRC cars for now? Much more than three years.
I still come back to the car. The Subaru has been a dog for most of Chris's time with it.
And yes I am a slightly biased Aussie supporter of Chris.
Sorry.

Simmi

17th January 2007, 23:25

Dont be sorry for being biased. If we dont support our drivers who will. i.e. Matt Wilson! Atko clearly has ability which just makes it frustrating to watch him sometimes. This year IMO he could have won or come second in Australia for example. I think Subaru didnt want to let another potentially class driver go like they did Mikko so I'm glad he's had a three year programme. I cant help thinking he would be a podium challenger in a Focus or Xsara.

bda

17th January 2007, 23:57

Trust me Simmi, in the Oxford dictionary next to the definition for frustration there is a picture of me.
Mikko must be so glad Subaru let him go. Imagine how frustrated he would be now if he was still in a Subaru.
Maybe we could get Mikko and Chris to swap cars for Sweden just to see what happens.
Incidently, I feel for Matt Wilson. He probably has more pressure on him to perform, than anybody else in the WRC.

koko0703

18th January 2007, 00:37

L5->R5/CR

18th January 2007, 01:55

I agree with those of you who suggested we must measure Atkinson relative to Petter, not Mikko or Sordo, because Subaru was clearly inferior to Citroen and Ford. And you can't really blame everything on Subaru drivers if the car is slow and unreliable. But that said, I expect Atkinson to finish in top 6 regulary this season and even on podium if the car improves.

Just like you can't blame a driver crashing a lot when the car is off the pace. Drivers want to do well, they will push a poor car harder and harder to try to get results, they will eventually over drive the car and when they do that they will crash more.

noel157

18th January 2007, 02:07

I hope things come right for Atkinson this year. Above all he really seems like a decent bloke. Him and Glenn always happy to talk to the media and generally have a smile on their faces, especially after a difficult 06 season.

TKM

18th January 2007, 02:59

pffft, time for Subaru to deliver him with a decent car, me thinks.

Fleur

18th January 2007, 05:01

I agree we can only compare Chris with Petter, due to the lack of reliability and pace in the current Subaru WRC. And in that sense, he did okay last season. I hope Subaru deliver him a better car in the 07WRC, and that he in turn delivers Subaru some podiums.

Incidently, agree with you noel, he is a hell-of-a nice guy, I competed in the APRC when he was competing. Very dedicated to his rallying, and great to talk to.

Mihai

18th January 2007, 09:33

Atkinson has fallen under a shadow of Hirvonen and Sordo.

Both Dani and Mikko had a better package last year than the Pirelli Impreza.
Besides that, preparing a young rally driver is a difficult and expensive process. I believe SWRT will stick with Atko after 2007 too if he has a decent season. They can't afford wasting time with another pay-driver like Hirvonen in 2004 or forming a new driver (that might deliver or not). I think Chris has a good image and the economical area that he's coming from (Oz/NZ) is a big market for Subaru. This alone would be a strong reason to keep him in the team in the next few years.

Daniel

18th January 2007, 10:12

Time for Subaru Australia to deliver some more ££££££££££££££££££'s to Banbury :)

A.F.F.

18th January 2007, 10:48

Both Dani and Mikko had a better package last year than the Pirelli Impreza.

Agreed. But, I rarely put Atkinson in my pickems last year, mainly because I knew he wouldn't finish the rally, not even under super rally. So, he finally has to look himself from a mirrow and think if it's time to change his strategy of driving.

AndyRAC

18th January 2007, 10:58

Whilst Chris is a promising driver, he must be thankful for Subaru Australia for providing him with the drive.

RJL25

18th January 2007, 12:41

I think those refering to the money subaru australia bring to the SWRT as the reason atko still has a drive are being a touch harsh. If Petter can't get results out of the subaru then how is Chris supposed to with much less experience?

Try not to forget how rubbish Mikko was in his first couple of seasons in the WRC! The reason Mikko kept being given chances was because of his obvious potential, and its the same deal with Chris. Let's not forget he was Ford's number one preference to team up with Gronholm in 2006 and Subaru Australia wasn't gonna give any money to Ford!! Atko however decided to stay loyal to the SWRT who wanted to keep him for 2006 regardless of the funds he brought with him! His loyalty was then repayed by the SWRT by re-signing him for 2007, however I agree that Chris must now give the SWRT a return on that loyalty in the form of results, while the SWRT must also give Chris a return on his original loyalty by giving him a decent car!

Speaking of frustration, how frustrated must Chris have been driving around the Subaru Labrador WRC around all year knowing he could have been driving the focus...

A.F.F.

18th January 2007, 12:55

Try not to forget how rubbish Mikko was in his first couple of seasons in the WRC! The reason Mikko kept being given chances was because of his obvious potential, and its the same deal with Chris.

Oh I remember it clearly. Over half of this forum was ready to bag him good.

cut the b.s.

18th January 2007, 14:47

[quote="RJL25"]I think those refering to the money subaru australia bring to the SWRT as the reason atko still has a drive are being a touch harsh. QUOTE]

but this is the reality of why he has the seat, still he is a decent driver and doing alright for the car he has.

I think a lot of the comments directed at Chris, Matt, Pons etc stem from the fact that many of us feel we know of more deserving drivers for the seats, are we right? who knows and because of the lack of drives we may never find out. Certainly Chris really only had 1 outstanding event before his break came.

FrankenSchwinn

18th January 2007, 18:26

I think a lot of the comments directed at Chris, Matt, Pons etc stem from the fact that many of us feel we know of more deserving drivers for the seats, are we right?

purely based on skills, yes we are. but Mr. Atkinson has more than skills and that does include a steady pay check to SWRT from subie aus and the marketing potential of an aussie driver. i have always been a fan of mikko because it was plain and easy to see what/who he really is. and i liked atko right away but i've always said he is like petter in the early days and hopefully he will have a better career than him though.

Certainly Chris really only had 1 outstanding event before his break came.

and that's all it takes in this modern day world of imidiate results. it's like hiring someone as a nurse because you saw them giving mouth to mouth to Claudia Shiffer one day.

Erki

18th January 2007, 19:32

it's like hiring someone as a nurse because you saw them giving mouth to mouth to Claudia Shiffer one day.

I would have stuck with Claudia. But then again it's Claudia vs. Variety(and Claudia can be included in that one...as can male people...) Life is so full of dilemmas sometimes. :s

ST205GT4

18th January 2007, 23:46

Certainly Chris really only had 1 outstanding event before his break came.

I'm no apologist for Atkinson. I think he needs to be a lot more consistent and start coming up with some results. However, I can't let this comment slide.

Atkinson almost won the Australian Rally Championship the same year he had his "one outstanding event". He would have won it, except he was excluded for a non-conforming brake booster after he'd won the first round. In our particular part of planet earth, that's about as good as you can do in rallying. Remembering that he was up against two fully factory backed Group N teams (Mitsu and Sube Oz). So it's hardly as if he did one Rally Australia, came 5th and was then presented with a seat in the WRC.

It's as if, simply because he didn't compete in a European rally championship, many of you are saying he has no experience. I think some of you are being a little myopic.

And this continued focus on the Subaru Australia money. Sure he's had to pay for his seat. However, show me one new driver, apart from those being groomed from the beginning of their careers (and I'm thinking specifically of Loeb here) hasn't in the modern era?

This is a make or break year for Chris in my opinion. Irrespective of the competitiveness of the car, he HAS to finish more rallies. If it turns out that the new car is still a dog, even on the new rubber, he has to start driving to the limits of the machinery and at least finishing. He's shown he has the speed, now he needs to show he has the intelligence/maturity to go with it.

A.F.F.

19th January 2007, 00:38

I'm no apologist for Atkinson. I think he needs to be a lot more consistent and start coming up with some results. However, I can't let this comment slide.

Atkinson almost won the Australian Rally Championship the same year he had his "one outstanding event". He would have won it, except he was excluded for a non-conforming brake booster after he'd won the first round. In our particular part of planet earth, that's about as good as you can do in rallying. Remembering that he was up against two fully factory backed Group N teams (Mitsu and Sube Oz). So it's hardly as if he did one Rally Australia, came 5th and was then presented with a seat in the WRC.

It's as if, simply because he didn't compete in a European rally championship, many of you are saying he has no experience. I think some of you are being a little myopic.

And this continued focus on the Subaru Australia money. Sure he's had to pay for his seat. However, show me one new driver, apart from those being groomed from the beginning of their careers (and I'm thinking specifically of Loeb here) hasn't in the modern era?

This is a make or break year for Chris in my opinion. Irrespective of the competitiveness of the car, he HAS to finish more rallies. If it turns out that the new car is still a dog, even on the new rubber, he has to start driving to the limits of the machinery and at least finishing. He's shown he has the speed, now he needs to show he has the intelligence/maturity to go with it.

Very good post :up:

Don't get mad at me when I say that even he would start finishing rallies, he is year late with that. He should have done so last year already. Now is indeed time to learn it.

He is incredible fast at times, there's no reason he wouldn't be for the whole rally. In my eyes, Atkinson is a strong member of the official Young Guns :up:

jens

19th January 2007, 01:30

I have to admit that at the moment Chris is probably my favourite WRC driver. :)

I don't doubt about his speed, but I think he needs confidence to start scoring good points. He needs a good (a podium?) or even a brilliant (a win?) result to get the pressure off him and silence the critics. In 2005 he was a rookie and most of the rallies were new to him, therefore he tried to test the limits. In 2006 the car was crap and he tried to take the maximum out of it. The worst moment was when he crashed in Australia whilst leading... :(

I agree with A.F.F at that point that I also do not dare to put Atkinson into my pickems. It seems just so risky. I truly hope he can find the consistency and calmness to consistently start finishing rallies. It's about time.

FrankenSchwinn

19th January 2007, 03:27

And this continued focus on the Subaru Australia money. Sure he's had to pay for his seat. However, show me one new driver, apart from those being groomed from the beginning of their careers (and I'm thinking specifically of Loeb here) hasn't in the modern era?

i dont think loeb was "groomed" i think that the entire citroen team was excellent from the start and all it needed was some polishing and it was the same with loeb. he was excellent from the start (that is why Champeau backed him up) and all he needed was some polishing. chris is probably the same but instead of building his wrc experience along with the team building its experience he jumped in a subaru, a well experienced team, with both feet. so it might be harder to polish the brass cojones the kid might have. in this way, he might be like Mikko (aside from Jean-Joseph, my favorite driver) and therefore all he could need is some maturing and some more concentration on the task at hand with less pressure (think mikko in 05 and how his drives were so "natural"). if he were to not deliver, it would suck if he were to loose his seat but i would understand why. the problem though, would be to do like Mikko did and find some damn good cars on some terrains where he could shine (ireland?) and show off that he would have matured with the enemployment. but all that is speculation anyway. truth is, he's no loeb, gronholm, makinen, sainz, auriol, kkk, alen, blumquist, rohrl, biason, vatanen, mcrae etc..... but he might just be another solberg, and that ain't bad!

RJL25

19th January 2007, 04:03

ST205GT4 - you incorrectly quoted me as saying atko only had one outstanding event before being given his drive, i never said that, someone else did. But i was equally as annoyed as you when i read that because absolutely chris had more then one outstanding event.

Chris not only got his 5th in rally aus, but he also won the asia pacific rally championship in a suzuki and then morally won the australian rally championship (his disqualification was bs) in his PRIVATEER entry against the factory teams from subaru and mitsubishi. It really really irks me when certain forum members from europe think that just because someone hasn't acheived something in europe then they haven't acheived anything at all! The Australian Rally Championship is one of the most competitive in the world and to win that against factory teams is one hell of an acheivement

ST205GT4

19th January 2007, 04:08

truth is, he's no l mcrae etc..... !

I'd disagree. I'd say he's just like McRae at the start and he's facing down the same sort of barrel McRae did with Subaru after Argentina 93 or 94 (can't remember). Crash too many more times my lad and you're on your way out!

ST205GT4

19th January 2007, 04:09

ST205GT4 - you incorrectly quoted me as saying atko only had one outstanding event before being given his drive, i never said that, someone else did.

Sorry bud. No idea what happened there. I just hit quote and somehow your name got put in instead!

RJL25

19th January 2007, 06:50

cut the b.s.

19th January 2007, 08:56

the 1 outstanding result comment came from me, I dont appologise for it, in Auz that year he drove great, but his other results, like Pastrana now in the US now, the people they are up against are not really of a known standard globally, he didnt go up against his peers in JWRC or PWRC much that I know of, in Finland in 04 he was respectable, but didnt strike me as a result pointing to an iminant WRC seat. Still he has got the break, seems a nice lad and good luck to him keeping it, Petter hasnt blown him away for pace, if he can hold it together and finish more he will not doubt hang on to his seat

cut the b.s.

19th January 2007, 09:01

yeah everyones got short memory syndrome! McRae, Solberg and Hivonen all where wildly inconsistant and made far too many mistakes earlier in their careers and alot of so called "experts" like yourselfs where all calling for their heads too...

Give the kid a break, he shows plenty of promise and he's a darn sight more interesting to watch being interviewed then loeb, sordo, stohl, gardemister, pons... list goes on and on

thanks the www age for this!! Fans used to not have so much knowledge given to them, now we have live splits etc, used to be we read a magazine a couple of weeks later to see about events, and we didnt have forums to come and rant on ;-)

ST205GT4

19th January 2007, 10:55

I'm sorry cut the b.s. but you're simply highlighting your ignorance of the relative levels of competition when comparing the Rally America series with the ARC. Travis and Ken are the only guys with anything resembling factory support in the US. Here in Australia, Chris was up against 6 full factory cars in his privateer car (I thought it was only Sube and Mitsu, but I just checked and it was Toyota as well). You may argue that the guys he was up against drivers who aren't that well known internationally, but they are hardly complete donkeys.

RJL25

19th January 2007, 12:06

Dont forget that the aussie drivers regularly thump all comers in the group n catagory in rally australia as well as in rally new zealand which alot of aussie drivers also compete in.

cut the b.s, you say the aussie drivers are an unkown quantity against the guys on the global stage (well the european stage which you for some reason consider to be the global stage) however whenever the euro drivers come down to rally aus and rally nz they usually loose (and heavily) to the likes of Chris Atkinson (obviously), Dean Herridge, Cody Crocker and in years gone by Ed Ordynski, Neal Bates, and ofcourse the late GREAT Mr. Possum Bourne. Even Simon Evans use to show blistering speed against the euro's when he use to race his privateer group n entry and would probably still be beating them if his group np corolla was allowed to compete at those events.

And thats not all the drivers competing in australia either! Here in aus we have a catagory called group np, the p standing for prototype. Basically a homologation system so that companies like ford and toyota can build their own group n spec car to compete against the regular group n'ers subaru and mitsubishi. Next year however we are going super 2000 so hopefully the super 2000 spec toyota corolla and ford fiesta (both with full factory teams supporting them) will be able to compete at these WRC events and really show uninformed people like yourself just how much talent there is here in australia!

To say these guys are an unkown quantity on the global stage really does go to show your ignorance to the australian rally scene.

cut the b.s.

19th January 2007, 13:42

You pair are putting words in my mouth that I have never said, read my posts please before you reply to them, I do it for you, its a simple courtesy.

Your own replys bear out my own words, name me some results where Auz or NZ drivers have shone beyond your own shores(Bourne is an exception here)

I regard WRC to be the global stage where young wannabes need to perform, how would Chris in his Suzuki have done against PG? In his GpN Sub against Passonen, McRae, Sola etc? Fact is we dont know, globally he had 1 big result and even in it was being matched and beaten before others fell by the wayside with accidents and mechanical failures that weekend

bda

19th January 2007, 14:32

ST205GT4

19th January 2007, 14:36

I read your reply ctbs. In it you say that Chris only achieved one outstanding result. Please don't assume what or what I am not doing. I do you the same courtesy.

My answer was aimed at pointing out to you that in my opinion your statement is inaccurate. Chris had a number of great results in our national championship. And it is my belief that the quality of the field is as good as any European Group N championship that you care to name. Certainly Juha Kangas seems to like competing in it. Even though he can't win it.

I'd also suggest you're being uncharitable not mentioning his 3rd place in Japan. Sure you can argue that he was lucky to get it because others fell off the road or had mechanicals, but last time I checked that was rallying. Using that logic you could say that Tommi Makkinen should have only been a three time world champion after he was gifted the WDC due to Sainz's retirement 300m from the stage end at the RAC in 97 or 98 or whenever it was.

I'm not sure how we're supposed to prove the quality of the Australian drivers, simply because very few of them have the budget to drive in overseas rounds, due to our location. Bit of a chicken and the egg problem isn't it? However, some indication of the quality of the field in the ARC can be seen in the fact that in the many years that Rally Australia has been run in Perth, as RL points out, Group N has been dominated by the locals. Can you concede that at least some of them must be able to drive in order for that to happen? Or has every PWRC/Group N driver from Europe that has visited our shores been a complete duffer?

I think you're misrembering Rally Oz 05 as well by the way. I think you'll find that Chris was quite a way in front, had a mechanical of some sort and then had to fight back past the PWRC guys.

Now look what you've made me into. It looks like I think Chris Atkinson walks on water and that's far from the case I can tell you.

cut the b.s.

19th January 2007, 15:02

So you are now telling me that Chris is the only Auz or NZ driver you can name results for???? :-/ I'm not haveing a pop at your drivers or championship, I've visited many championship rallys and there are a lot of very talented drivers in them all, none are easy to win but fact remains Chris's seat was bought, he had 1 global result before his break, your championship runs annually, what other WRC drivers has it produced? Is he the only 1 with talent to do it?(certainly the only 1 you guys can give results for ;-) ) Of course other good guys have done it, just he happened to be the guy to get a break, good luck to him

ST205GT4

19th January 2007, 15:21

Yes he probably is, mainly because there simply has not been the financial backing as there isn't the same level of interest here in Australia. No cash no play, at least in the beginning of a young drivers career. Chris is no different to any European driver from that point of view.

It's not a reflection on the capability or not of the drivers in the ARC. It's simply a matter of opportunity. We simply don't have the same sort of backing as say the Finns do with their money man who's name escapes me at the moment. So it's not a matter of the ARC not being a good breeding ground, it's more a case of "if you're not in Europe or you don't have a big backer you're screwed, irrespective of talent". Which shouldn't be news as their are plenty of excellent drivers in Europe with the same problem!

So in answer to your question "is he the only one with talent?". Of course not. He just happens to have potential and a backer. Hardly anything new in the world of commercially driven motorsport that we now live in!

grugsticles

19th January 2007, 15:40

Can I just point out that before Chris joined the SWRT, he was intending to compete in the WRC at Gp N level. People who have seen him drive have noted that he was significantly faster than the fastest few drivers in the ARC (one of which won last years APRC as a one off attempt) and won the S1600 APRC as well.
SWRT spotted his great results and saw saw how quikly Chris could gather the financial backing for a proposed Gp N WRC season, so they said if he could get a bit more money they would offer a 2 year deal. As we all know this deal went though and Chris is now in his 3rd year at WRC level.

The fact remains that the guy was gonna make it to the world stage, it just so happens that he was fortunate enough to be offered the operunity of side stepping a year or 3 in S1600 or Gp N before having a crack in a WRCar.

Dont hack on someone because if their good fortune.

koko0703

19th January 2007, 23:00

Money certainly has played some role in Atkinson getting seat at Subaru, but it wasn't all the reason why he's there. Atkinson did great at national level and impressed SWRT in Oz in 2004. Also by the end of 2004, Subaru was very unhappy with Mikko and looking for another new talent, and Chris was there at just right timing. Since he joined Subaru in 2005, I think Subaru is fairly satisfied with what Chris has done so far considering how much the car has struggled, and I, as a Subaru fan, am more satisfied with Chris for last 2 yrs than with Mikko in 2004. If the results start coming in this season, I must say it was fairly good investment.

RJL25

19th January 2007, 23:18

Unfortunately its the same as all other kinds of motorsport here in australia, young aussie drivers just dont have the money to go to europe. See for european drivers the WRC is right on their doorstep, the marketability prospects of the WRC is much greater therefore for their european countries. Here in australia, except for 1 weekend a year, the WRC is a world away and as such aussie companies just arent interested in supporting a young guy.

Everyone keeps saying he only got his opportunity though money, but so does every driver! Hirvonen only got back to the top by putting in good performances in PRIVATELY FUNDED rides in 2005. Its impossible for any driver to get anywhere without funding. The only reason chris is in a factory car with his money is because he happens to be getting his money from the factory! Subaru Australia decided "right we're gonna help this guy" and so they did and at the exact same time the SWRT just happened to be looking for someone. Thats just plain fortune for chris and good luck to him for it.

Name another aussie driver? Micheal Guest. He made it to the WRC and got a number of drivers for Hyundai, however when the whole Hyundai deal collapsed around him his support from winfield did the same, and the poor guy was left out in the cold through no fault of his own. Dean Herridge is another one who has competed a number of times in overseas WRC events in group n and has had some success, as has Cody Crocker who has done the same. Neal Bates did the same many moons ago as did the GREAT Possum Bourne. Chris is most certainly not the only one.

And anyway, lets just look at the leaderboard after day 2 at monte carlo. Atkinson 4th infront of Hirvonen whos in a better car then his and way infront of sohlberg whos in the exact same car as him. A very impressive effort so far, especially so considering tarmac is by far chris's fravorite surface where as Hirvonen is quite fond of it..... Speaking of Hirvonen wasn't everyone being just as critical of him just 12 months ago at the start of the 2006 season? You where all proven massively wrong there... anyone would think you would have learnt!

Daniel

19th January 2007, 23:21

Michael Guest is a moron and calling him a rally driver is a crime against humanity. The guy is one of the most useless drivers I've had the displeasure of watching in a rally car. Nothing was ever his fault. Nothing. Nothing ever. Nada. Zero.

FrankenSchwinn

19th January 2007, 23:39

Dont hack on someone because if their good fortune.

on this forum? no way, never, no one would do such a thing! :rolleyes:

Daniel

19th January 2007, 23:41

Franky. Lets go criticise some people in some local backyard championship and not criticise crap drivers at a world level. It seems Lord Grugsticles doesn't like people doing that.

cut the b.s.

20th January 2007, 01:04

Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms Grugsticles(delete as appropriate) What driver was hacked on here?

Chris going well in Monte, seems to be getting good on tar, I believe he went to Ireland and beat the local GpN drivers in Rallye Ireland last year, the tar there is said to be specialist needing experience for speed etc, maybe he can with his extra experience there push the Fords and Citroens even harder on that event this year??

Tumbo

20th January 2007, 03:06

interesting to note that he has the 2006 spec subaru which he has never driven on tarmac up to 4th place. If he can hold on and beat Mikko and Petter then he will have shown that he has matured over the past 2yrs. Give him a yr I felt when he first stepped up and he did show last yr signs of improvement. Unfortunately he seems to get a bit over-eager at times wanting to push his car beyond its limits; something which he should not do this yr if he wants to prove to all the doubters that he has what it takes. Given that this is really only the 4th yr that Mikko has been in a works backed WRC seat we should be comparing the way Atko tackles the stages to that of Mikko last yr. If he can show the talent Mikko has (and yes I have been proved wrong; Mikko can actually drive a rallycar very well) then hopefully he can keep the seat

WRXedUSA

20th January 2007, 04:50

He didnt do much worse than your "Top Driver" Solberg last year.

He will do better than anyone else in the Subaru seat.

I have confidence in him.

A.F.F.

20th January 2007, 07:46

Chris is doing very well at the moment. Good race against Mikko and Garde. I do hope he will finish the rally.

ST205GT4

20th January 2007, 09:08

He has driven very well so far. Good pace and kept it on the road. Even a stage victory on tarmac now. If he can stay in 4th it will be a very well deserved result that he'll have fought for.

I've got everything crossed now!

bowler

20th January 2007, 09:36

stage win. good effort.

grugsticles

20th January 2007, 10:50

FrankenSchwinn, Daniel, cut the b.s. and everyone else...

Dont be daft and be of the opinion that I think more of myself than anyone else. Im Australian and hence have a soft spot for Atkinson, as such Im naturally defensive of him.

Take it as you will.

But, back on topic... I think today's rallying has been a good indicator of how he plans to deliver results this season.

Daniel

20th January 2007, 11:22

I'm an Australian as well. I was a fan of Chris when he started in the WRC too. But he quickly showed that in a WRCar he's not as solid as in a GrN car. I won't defend someone just because I come from the same country as them. It's just not what I do.

ste898

20th January 2007, 11:26

This is a great rally for Cris so far hope he keeps up the good work

Erki

20th January 2007, 11:26

I'm with Daniel in this one-I defend Atkinson. :)

Mickey T

20th January 2007, 11:49

As long as he pays he has nothing to deliver to keep his seat....

chris doesn't pay.

he is a paid driver, contracted to subaru head office in japan.

RJL25

20th January 2007, 15:33

chris doesn't pay.

he is a paid driver, contracted to subaru head office in japan.

well thats what i thought originally! Didn't subaru australia only pay for his tarmac rally's in 2005 and 2006 and for all other rally's was fully contracted to SWRT? meh i dunno but he is making alot of people eat their words at monte

Helstar

20th January 2007, 15:42

Nice from Atko until now ! Even a stage win ... now he needs to finish, I hope he doesn't push too much to keep the position, go for the end Atko =)

Finni

20th January 2007, 19:11

Really impressive rally by Atkinson. We have to remember that Subaru is lightyears slower than Ford - not to mention Citroen. Maybe good pre-event tyre-choise was in Chris' side but afterall beating Petter and Hirvonen is tremendous perfomance from his starting-point.

Ranger

20th January 2007, 23:07

Aye, great rally. Hopefully he can make it back past Hirvonen to 4th, that would be a great result. :up:

jens

20th January 2007, 23:12

Aye, great rally. Hopefully he can make it back past Hirvonen to 4th, that would be a great result. :up:

Same hopes here! :up: :) Hopefully he can perform so well in the next rallies as well (last year he also started well at MC with 6th position, but then faded).

Chris has developed greatly on tarmac - in 2005 he was still struggling, but last year already score points from MC and Germany. Now he is even quicker than Petter. :p :

koko0703

21st January 2007, 02:32

Chris's result so far is a pleasant surprize for me. Going to last SSS, he's only 0.8s down to Hirvonen in a surperior machinary. I think this is a good result and great effort by Atkinson regardless of finishing 4th or 5th. Of course, I have all fingers crossed for Atkinson taking over Mikko in last 2.8km.

sills

21st January 2007, 02:45

We have to remember that Subaru is lightyears slower than Ford - not to mention Citroen.

That may be through but if you look at the first few stages of the rally subaru have gradually built up speed over the course of the rally with both chris and petter delivering good stage times in a car that is not brilliant on tarmac, but then you look at the irish tarmac championship the prodrive machines dont seem to be doing to bad at all, I think a couple of the irish boys could match the wrc boys, if it was there day job like the likes of chris and petter.

jso1985

21st January 2007, 06:21

L5->R5/CR

21st January 2007, 06:40

Atkinson is having probably his best rally to date(of the ones he finished). 1 year old car, new tyres, not very experience in tarmac and he's 5th!(and hopefully will finish 4th).
If he can keep than speed and confidence I see him doing great things in gravel rallyes(if Subaru get thigs right with the 07 car of course)

I'm all for cutting drivers slack in a foreign surface but lets be honest. This is Chris's what 10th or so Tarmac event. He knows it well enough to give it a go if he ever will. Out pacing his team's lead driver in his least experienced surface and people still make excuses for him?

datto57

21st January 2007, 07:06

Out pacing his team's lead driver in his least experienced surface and people still make excuses for him?

Out pacing his team's lead driver on his least experienced surface and people still give him a hard time. What does he have to do to make some accept him as worthy of being there?

janneppi

21st January 2007, 09:50

Who exactly is giving him a hard time after his performance here?
He's certainly surprised me this weekend in a positive way. :)

datto57

21st January 2007, 09:52

Its in the quote I used

RJL25

21st January 2007, 09:58

I'm all for cutting drivers slack in a foreign surface but lets be honest. This is Chris's what 10th or so Tarmac event. He knows it well enough to give it a go if he ever will. Out pacing his team's lead driver in his least experienced surface and people still make excuses for him?

whos making excuses? No one, hes having a great rally why do we need to make excuses for him? Im thinking your just clutching at any straw you can find to lay the boot into him even tho there is no justifyable reason to criticise him on this performance

A.F.F.

21st January 2007, 10:36

I started this thread and I'm glad to notice I didn't have to wait but one rally for Chris to deliver :)

Subaru is worse car than Focus but Team Ford had poor selection of tyres. That is something to remember.

However, Ford's tyre choise isn't Atkinson's fault and do not take anything away from his performance. He drove a solid and fast rally and I'm sure that taking over Mikko on that very last super special stage gave him a huge boost of self-confidence for the later rallyes :up:

Well done and hopefully we see continuum for these kind of results. Not behalf of Mikko though ;) :p :

pino

21st January 2007, 12:22

Great job Chris :up: I expect the same in Sweden and Norway :D

1LM1

21st January 2007, 12:46

Atko: :up: :up: :up: :up: :up:
Very impressive.
A new tarmac specialist??? I think so.

Ranger

21st January 2007, 12:59

I dunno about Tarmac specialist. But he's been pretty good as far as his two MC attempts go! :up:

jens

21st January 2007, 14:44

I wouldn't call him a tarmac specialist, a couple of years ago he was more like a gravel-specialist. But now he can be good everywhere.

Can't wait for the new Subaru. If it's a success, Chris might score his maiden WRC win this season.

Daniel

21st January 2007, 14:52

Just remember one result maketh not the man.

Erki

21st January 2007, 14:59

Just remember one result maketh not the man.

I just read another good quote that was like this : "Every good artist was once an amateur".
You gotta start somewhere.

jens

21st January 2007, 15:00

Just remember one result maketh not the man.

Chris has been criticized pretty often. Let's give him some honour as well.

Daniel

21st January 2007, 15:44

I just read another good quote that was like this : "Every good artist was once an amateur".
You gotta start somewhere.
yes but starting 2 years after you started isn't the best start.

Erki

21st January 2007, 15:50

yes but starting 2 years after you started isn't the best start.

Not everyone is a Loeb. :)

L5->R5/CR

21st January 2007, 19:20

Out pacing his team's lead driver on his least experienced surface and people still give him a hard time. What does he have to do to make some accept him as worthy of being there?

Please put my words in context when you quote me.

I was not slamming Chris, but in fact saying he should be able to deliver and it was time to start judging his performances for what they are and stop this if he had more experience non-sense.

If you read the thread you'll see that I think Chris can go well enough and that people have been quick to judge him poorly but that when judged against Petter he is doing quite a good job.

I'm not a Chris supporter or detractor. I am just tired of people trying to bring in the experience argument ALL THE TIME, even when drivers have a decent amount of experience to begin with (if Chris can't start to get tarmac figured out after 10 events and 2 or 3 years of recce on most all of them then he never will).

Tumbo

21st January 2007, 22:24

yes but starting 2 years after you started isn't the best start.

Remember this is his first tarmac rally in the new car; not only that but it is only his second Monte Carlo rally so given he already has podium finishes in the past its not as if this is the best result but an excellent one nonetheless ;)

SubaruNorway

21st January 2007, 22:30

Does anyone now if Mikko and Atko where on equal tyres on the sss, if they where im realy impresed with Atko

bda

21st January 2007, 23:26

Daniel

21st January 2007, 23:44

Glad to see someone else shares my dislike for him.

ST205GT4

22nd January 2007, 00:04

Make that three of us then. I was gobsmacked when Ford chose him for their Focus here in Oz.

koko0703

22nd January 2007, 01:59

yes but starting 2 years after you started isn't the best start.

It's not the best start, and Atkinson is not certainly Loeb. But it's not a bad start either. His first two years as good as or even better than the first 2 years of Petter, Mikko, etc..... And at least Atkinson has shown some potential.

Camelopard

22nd January 2007, 05:54

Glad to see someone else shares my dislike for him.

I raise that to 4, any advance on 4.........
Wrong thread I know, but why would Ford Australia give Guest a drive over say Rick Bates? :confused:

Apparently Rick gave more feedback after 1 rally in the Focus than Guest did all year.... That came from someone within the team.

ST205GT4

22nd January 2007, 06:11

Who knows. Guest has had more chances that just about everyone other than Chris. He is probably the only other Aussie rally driver that got a chance to run a program overseas and he was a dismal failure.

There are any number of other drivers that could have done a better job in my opinion.

Tumbo

22nd January 2007, 07:49

was great when he flipped the showcar at the preview the day before the press-release back in 98 for his 99 grp N challenge......considering i've watched the footage and all it was an amateur mistake

Daniel

22nd January 2007, 09:45

It's not the best start, and Atkinson is not certainly Loeb. But it's not a bad start either. His first two years as good as or even better than the first 2 years of Petter, Mikko, etc..... And at least Atkinson has shown some potential.

That's absolute rubbish. When Mikko and Petter were in the championship as second drivers or not in a works team they were up against far more competition than Chris is now as a works driver.

Look at this rally. Mikko finished 9th behind 6 guys who've been world champions.

http://rallybase.nl/index.php?type=result&rallyid=321

Here Chris finished 4th behind 3 guys who really aren't anyone when it comes to the WRC

http://rallybase.nl/index.php?type=result&rallyid=420

Compare apples with apples please.

Mickey T

22nd January 2007, 11:13

I raise that to 4, any advance on 4.........
Wrong thread I know, but why would Ford Australia give Guest a drive over say Rick Bates? :confused:

Apparently Rick gave more feedback after 1 rally in the Focus than Guest did all year.... That came from someone within the team.

five

ST205GT4

22nd January 2007, 11:28

That's absolute rubbish. When Mikko and Petter were in the championship as second drivers or not in a works team they were up against far more competition than Chris is now as a works driver.

Look at this rally. Mikko finished 9th behind 6 guys who've been world champions.

http://rallybase.nl/index.php?type=result&rallyid=321

Here Chris finished 4th behind 3 guys who really aren't anyone when it comes to the WRC

http://rallybase.nl/index.php?type=result&rallyid=420

Compare apples with apples please.

Ah but Daniel you know as well as I do what happened on that rally! How naughty of you :)

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm not), but Chris lost a bucketful of time in that rally from a manufacturing fault on one of the control arms on his front suspension. He was leading the rally on day one whilst the entire field of WRC cars where still in the rally up until that point.

SubaruNorway

22nd January 2007, 11:37

Im not sure about this but hasen't Chris been leading more rallies than Mikko

RJL25

22nd January 2007, 12:07

oh blah blah blah. Most of the people who are laying the boot into atko here where also laying the boot into mikko at the start of last season. By seasons end you all looked like complete donkeys and you will all look like complete donkeys come the end of this season.

Bold prediction i know but chris will finnish higher in the drivers standings then petter this season. And we all know how good Petter is

RJL25

22nd January 2007, 12:08

Does anyone now if Mikko and Atko where on equal tyres on the sss, if they where im realy impresed with Atko

yes, everyone was on the exact same spec tarmac/snow tyre. It was a snow tyre so the cars slid around and looked very exciting

jens

22nd January 2007, 13:44

Comparing Chris' and Petter's starts of their respective careers seems actually quite adequate. Remember Petter crying somewhere in 2000: "Will I ever get to the finish?" But he got more experience and started finishing rallies, resulting with WDC title. Chris is trying to follow the same pattern.

malscar

22nd January 2007, 13:55

Daniel

22nd January 2007, 14:42

Ah but Daniel you know as well as I do what happened on that rally! How naughty of you :)

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm not), but Chris lost a bucketful of time in that rally from a manufacturing fault on one of the control arms on his front suspension. He was leading the rally on day one whilst the entire field of WRC cars where still in the rally up until that point.
Yes I know this. But there always seems to be a problem with the car when Atkinson is driving. Even before the reliability woes seem to hit. As I said before I was a strong Atko supporter in his early days. I just don't think he is driving as he drove in Australia. He was quite solid here I thought and now he just looks fragile.

Finni

22nd January 2007, 15:36

In my view Atkinson is at least as talented as Hirvonen. People doesn't realize that Atkinson is starting his third wrc-seasons whereas Hirvonen is on fifth. We can also say that there huge differencies between Ford and Subaru at the moment. Atkinson's performance in Monte was just brilliant.

Mickey T

22nd January 2007, 17:55

Yes I know this. But there always seems to be a problem with the car when Atkinson is driving. Even before the reliability woes seem to hit. As I said before I was a strong Atko supporter in his early days. I just don't think he is driving as he drove in Australia. He was quite solid here I thought and now he just looks fragile.

that's a little selective. the control arm failure had occured three times in testing and the team brushed it aside as a test-only quirk. It has also happened since to Solberg.

both chris and petter have tried to shield the team and its mechanics from designed-in mechanical shortcomings in the impreza.

for instance, while both have had gearshift paddles break off, you've only heard about petter's. Driveshaft failures, too.

Power steering failures have been a chronic problem with Ed Wood-designed imprezas, as have difficulties in reaching components to change them in service, hence plenty of services have run long and cost both drivers time, but particularly chris.

he is not driving as he drove in australia primarily because that car on those tyres was no longer able to be driven in that manner. the reason the imprezas always look like they've got their bums in the air and their noses on the ground is that it's the only way they can make them change direction within the limitations of their homologation papers.

Chris will make it, of that i have no doubt. i expect a swag of solid top fives and then some podium challenges later in the year.

and so does he.

jso1985

22nd January 2007, 20:58

He already showed some speed back in 2005, it's not the first time, but now he looks more confident IMO, if he can stay away from stupid mistakes like in Australia 2006, then I think he's on the way to at least win some WRC events

Fleur

23rd January 2007, 01:33

Great result from Chris this weekend. More to come, I am sure!!!

jens

11th February 2007, 23:32

Damn. Chris was on course for a decent result for the second rally in succession, but an error shortly before the end cost it. :( Still more consistency needed!

Fleur

12th February 2007, 03:01

Yeah, would have been great to see him finish in 5th or 6th....

Helstar

12th February 2007, 03:16

I don't understand why he always get distracted in the last day by something inside the car ? Did you see the video ? Exactly like in Sardinia 2006 ... pity because he was going to score a very nice result :\

ST205GT4

12th February 2007, 10:35

Haven't seen the footage, but a real shame he made a mistake right at the end. Really needs to stop doing it. Easy to say from the comfort of my keyboard. Hard to do in reality I'm sure.

Brother John

12th February 2007, 11:38

Don´t you see that Petter is doing more mistakes? But he´s been allowed to blame the car ore the tyres! :D

malscar

12th February 2007, 13:44

Don´t you see that Petter is doing more mistakes? But he´s been allowed to blame the car ore the tyres! :D

My thoughts exactly. Would love to see them in say a Xsara to see just how good they are compared to others. seems they have to 'overdrive' to stay with everyone else.

ST205GT4

12th February 2007, 14:10

Don´t you see that Petter is doing more mistakes? But he´s been allowed to blame the car ore the tyres! :D

Difference is he is "established" BJ. Chris needs the runs on the board.

Tomski

12th February 2007, 14:45

Buzz Lightyear

12th February 2007, 14:54

Am I right in saying that Chris has never won any sort of rally, never mind a WRC event?

All the true greats show their speed very early on, they might not finish, they might not win, but they're quick. I've yet to see this so far with Chris, may be its time to accept he's just not in the same league?

thats balls. none of the young guys are in the same league

Take loeb and marcus out of the equation, and anyone of the young guns can win a rally, aktinson, sordo, hirvonen maybe even latvala.

Never under-estimate how much EXPERIENCE you need to even begin to compete with Marcus in Sweden or Finland for example.

The young guys will just have to keep pluggin away until...

a) the backers get tired paying
b) they eventually build up enough experience
c) or loeb and gronholm retire

Tomski

12th February 2007, 14:57

Well, has he won a rally?

JAM

12th February 2007, 15:11

My thoughts exactly. Would love to see them in say a Xsara to see just how good they are compared to others. seems they have to 'overdrive' to stay with everyone else.

I always defended and stiil defend that Petter Solberg is not at the same level as Gornholm or Loeb. Is not, and vere was.

Erki

12th February 2007, 16:05

Well, has he won a rally?

Why not check it out yourself? :)

http://www.rallybase.nl/index.php?type=profile&driverid=6773

No overall wins, but it's not easy to win on gravel driving a S1600 car. Numerous class wins though.

Tomski

12th February 2007, 16:59

I'd already checked it, hence my comments.

He's a good driver, not a great driver.

Fleur

13th February 2007, 00:11

He has won at least one in Australia, but maybe someone from Aussie can help me out on whether he won more than that??

ST205GT4

13th February 2007, 00:33

Am I right in saying that Chris has never won any sort of rally, never mind a WRC event?

Umm yes he almost won the entire ARC in 2004.

2004
Forest Rally WA Exc (after coming 1st...illegal brake booster from memory)
Rally of Queensland 1 st
Rally of South Australia 1st
Rally of New South Wales 1st
Rally of Melbourne 2nd
FIA Asia Pacific Super 1600 Champion

2003 (to be honest I'm not sure how much competition there was in S1600)
Rally of Canberra 10 th – 1 st Super 1600
Rally Hokkaido 10 th – 2 nd Super 1600
Rally of Thailand 7 th – 1 st Super 1600
Rally of India 6th – 1 st Super 1600

2002
ARC Privateers Cup Champion (2 wins)

2001
4 class wins

ST205GT4

13th February 2007, 00:49

I'd already checked it, hence my comments.

Perhaps you should be a little more thorough next time?

Another example of European myopia? There are other competitions apart from European ones....

Personally at this point in time I think Chris is doing as well as Hirvonnen did at a comparable stage in his career. Can he get better? Who knows.

For future reference: http://www.chrisatkinson.com.au/statistics.htm

RJL25

13th February 2007, 06:04

ST205GT4 - its like talking to a brick wall isn't it? As far as most of these blokes are concerned if its not a european based championship then it's not important and doesn't count... The ARC is widely acknowledged by people in the know as one of the most competitive rally series IN THE WORLD and 2004 was a particularly competitive season aswell! And he would have won it if not for his exclusion from the first event which related to the use of an illegal component, which had no performance advantage at all and was given to him by prodrive (who should have known better)

And David Richards (mr. prodrive for those who dont know) has recently confirmed that Chris is NOT a pay driver and has not been a pay driver since his first season in 2005 (which was paid for subaru australia), and he has infact been paid a wage by the SWRT since 2006, and is more or less signed for 2008 aswell, a season in which David Richard's predicts Chris will be VERY competitive and will be in the world championship mix.

Tomski

13th February 2007, 09:44

Just because a championship is competitive is no indication of the level it operates at. Any driver who wins such a championship, doesn't necessarily mean they will make it in the WRC.

From the WRC results so far there's still some way to go. Maybe its time for Chris to get in a more competitive car?

Brother John

13th February 2007, 09:50

From the WRC results so far there's still some way to go. Maybe its time for Chris to get in a more competitive car?

:up: :up: :up: :D

Minke

13th February 2007, 11:21

He has won at least one in Australia, but maybe someone from Aussie can help me out on whether he won more than that??

I think it was rally japan 04 in the suzuki he was 12th or something O/R against the WRC and Grp N boys..

even some top 10 stage times I think...

trying to find the results.. can anyone confirm?

If my memory is right.. then that has certainly got to show you he has some speed :)

RJL25

13th February 2007, 11:21

Just because a championship is competitive is no indication of the level it operates at. Any driver who wins such a championship, doesn't necessarily mean they will make it in the WRC.

if its a rubbish championship then no one would compete in it, certainly not factory teams from mitsubishi, toyota and ford, and therefore it wouldn't be competitive would it?

Halvis

13th February 2007, 12:03

From the WRC results so far there's still some way to go. Maybe its time for Chris to get in a more competitive car?

Which he will have from Mexico on.

According to Petter Solberg, the 2007-model is much better than the current one, they have fixed the weight distribution problem and other stuff aswell. They will probably have some realibility problems, but I think it will be instantly more competetive in sheer speed.

Ranger

13th February 2007, 12:28

According to Petter Solberg, the 2007-model is much better than the current one, they have fixed the weight distribution problem and other stuff aswell. They will probably have some realibility problems, but I think it will be instantly more competetive in sheer speed.

I hope he is right. But from his many inaccurate predictions and judgements over the past year and half, I don't think he is the most reliable source to judge what is good and what is not.

Although I hope he is right here. Time for Team Sub to get their head out of the sand.

RJL25

14th February 2007, 00:13

everyone seems to be missing the fact that chris has been kicking petter's ass so far this year! Someone lacking talent and ability simply would not be able to do that to someone like petter sohlberg

TKM

14th February 2007, 02:38

You're wasting your breath dude, they're so on-eyed it's unbelievable. I'm just waiting for Subaru to get their act together, and then when Chris starts kicking butt they'll be made to eat their words.

GigiGalliNo1

14th February 2007, 02:43

I don't expect Atkinson do be competitive this year as he hasn't really shown improvement for sometime even though he was leading rally aus and sometimes shows speed in some rallye's. Petter will ALWAYS be the better driver and hope that at the end of Chris's contract gets a drive with another team, he might shine there.

ST205GT4

14th February 2007, 03:36

GigiGalliNo1

14th February 2007, 04:30

Not competitive? Perhaps I imagined the Monte where he beat Hirvonnen in a straight fight? Is Hirvonnen now considered to be uncompetitive as well? Or the Swedish where he was headed for a 5th place and had a fastest stage time to his name before throwing it into the woods, against people with signficantly more experience on snow than him?

You may be judging to early Matt. I find it ironic that in the thread for Hirvonnen you're all for him to spend time "learning" and yet Chris is already written off.

Ok I think I might have not explained it properly Sorry. I'm not bagging Chris either. I mean I cannot see him as an or I don't see him as interesting as Mikko, or Solberg/s in the WRC sometimes I think he isn't in the competition. Chris, sure I would say like Mikko is continuing to learn as are many other young drivers and I see Chris having potential but its just like people slightly bag "Wilslow" or Matt Wilson or what ever his nick name is. It just takes time, but I don't want to be hated, I don't like well I do but not my type of driver Chris is to me.

RJL25

14th February 2007, 05:57

the difference is wilslow has never shown any potential or speed, where as chris has always shown potential, he just hasn't always gotten the results to back it up, which it must be said is usually because of his car rather then his ability

GigiGalliNo1

14th February 2007, 10:19

"*Name Disclosed says:
he's not showy, his style is like loebs, boring, but it works"

Which is exactly how is feel/thinking about him. His "style" doesn't suit Subaru, like *Name Disclosed said to me - in a smaller car he could do better.

Tomski

14th February 2007, 11:06

[quote="GigiGalliNo1"]

Such as?

Super 1600?

GigiGalliNo1

14th February 2007, 11:07

No, No.... C4 or Xsara/Skoda? sized cars

Erki

14th February 2007, 11:09

Interesting... I have always thought Atko's style was a bit rough and hard... Maybe it's because of his offs. :)

RJL25

14th February 2007, 11:24

next years all new hatch back style imprezza is supposed to be a smaller, C4 style car. If chris's style will suit such a car more then that will be interesting

GigiGalliNo1

14th February 2007, 11:25

Yup I think it will as it did with the Suzuki Ignis :D

ST205GT4

14th February 2007, 11:43

His "style" seemed to suit the Group N Subaru pretty well. Same sized car..

Daniel

14th February 2007, 11:57

You know what makes me laugh GT4? :)

The C4 has a longer wheelbase than the Impreza. Well I wouldn't have guess that these people were talking absolute BS!!!!!!!

If you've ever gone up to a C4 or sat in one you'll realise they're not a small car and even with 180bhp in the road going VTS it's quite slow due to it's heaviness.......

Daniel

14th February 2007, 12:00

Tomski

14th February 2007, 12:10

The Impreza is the longest car (by just over 100mm), but its narrower than a Focus and the C4, so its not exactly HUGE.

Daniel

14th February 2007, 12:11

The length of the car really doesn't dictate the handling. Wheelbase is what makes a difference.

Tomski

14th February 2007, 12:38

Couldn't find the wheelbases, but I totally agree. The feel of a car is a function of the wheelbase & track & weight distribution.

Erki

14th February 2007, 15:27

Do you even know the meaning of disclosed? :confused:

Didn't notice this one... :D :up:

L5->R5/CR

14th February 2007, 16:15

No, No.... C4 or Xsara/Skoda? sized cars

Right....

As noted the C4 is such a tiny compact car...

Daniel

14th February 2007, 16:45

Right....

As noted the C4 is such a tiny compact car...
Yes :laugh:

It's this sort of "intellectual" debate that makes me not visit the WRC forum that much these days :mark:

Next thing they'll start talking about Pirelli's being the best tarmac tyres........

GigiGalliNo1

14th February 2007, 16:48

It's this sort of "intellectual" debate that makes me not visit the WRC forum that much these days :mark:

Goood bye Daniel!

GigiGalliNo1

14th February 2007, 16:52

Didn't notice this one... :D :up:

I could tell you this is a fellow forumer...

disclosed - wat ever

daniel - why is it these small things you turn and make into these huge problems? Do you have nothing else to complain about? Do you not have any hobbies or work?

Daniel

14th February 2007, 16:53

Seriously. You don't know the difference between a small and a big car, seem to have a tenuous grasp on the English language and now you're trying to score points against me on a public forum? :laugh:

You're a funny one you are :rolleyes:

GigiGalliNo1

14th February 2007, 16:54

thanks, i don't care if i can;t spell right, it's a forum not a school.

Daniel

14th February 2007, 16:56

I could tell you this is a fellow forumer...

disclosed - wat ever

daniel - why is it these small things you turn and make into these huge problems? Do you have nothing else to complain about? Do you not have any hobbies or work?
I'm at work now actually. So yes I do have work and I have many hobbies.

You should care. A lot of people whose first language isn't English seem to be better with their English than yourself. It's very tiring to read such badly written posts as moderators have pointed out in the past.

GigiGalliNo1

14th February 2007, 16:59

Thanks

Daniel

14th February 2007, 17:03

Don't be condescending. I only brought up the fact that a lot of the arguments put forth on this forum by a number of people are merely thought up on a whim and then put forward as fact without any thought whatsoever. Is it so much to ask to ask that people think about what they're posting and also try and write it in the best English they are capable of.

Tomski

14th February 2007, 17:10

I can cope with broken English, the odd wayward spelling, and ill informed theories / heresay, but what I can't cope with is people not reading the full thread to see what's already beed discussed.

There, that's my contribution, now can we get back to the subject of the thread, rather than slagging off one and other?

May be we need a bitching thread?

leno

15th February 2007, 09:37

Dimensions (subaru)

Overall length 4425mm
Overall witdh 1800mm
Overall height 1390mm
Car weight 1230 kg (min. FIA reg.)
Wheelbase 2545 mm

DIMENSIONS (c4)
Wheelbase: 2,608 mm
Length: 4,274 mm
Width: 1,800 mm
Front/rear track: 1,598 mm
Weight: 1,230 kg (minimum authorised)

leno

15th February 2007, 09:37

Dimensions (impreza)

Overall length 4425mm
Overall witdh 1800mm
Overall height 1390mm
Car weight 1230 kg (min. FIA reg.)
Wheelbase 2545 mm

Dimensions (c4)

Length × Width × Height in : 4.201 m | 165.4 in. | 4201.2 mm.
Weight lb (kg) : 1230 kg | 2712.2 lbs
wheelbase is 2608mm

Mickey T

15th February 2007, 17:10

Well, has he won a rally?

other than loeb, who is a freak, show me somebody who has won a rally in his first 50 WRC starts (not counting super 1600 starts).

and for people to say he's rubbish because he hasn't won in his first two years, where does that leave Gronholm? is he rubbish because it took a decade before his first WRC win?

DonJippo

15th February 2007, 17:59

other than loeb, who is a freak, show me somebody who has won a rally in his first 50 WRC starts (not counting super 1600 starts).

and for people to say he's rubbish because he hasn't won in his first two years, where does that leave Gronholm? is he rubbish because it took a decade before his first WRC win?

Out of all the winners Duval and Hirvonen are the only ones not managed to do it under 50 events.

What comes to Marcus, maybe it's good to remember that he took his first WDC title on his first full year and his second year as a works driver, before that he had mainly private and few factory supported entries to events.

Tomski

15th February 2007, 19:24

A great driver always looks quick and looks like they could win an event, even is they end up off the track. I'm affraid Chris has never been in that league, and before someone leaps, in I do remember Oz last year.

jens

3rd September 2007, 00:50

L5->R5/CR

3rd September 2007, 01:53

Sorry to bump an old thread, but what do you think he has been doing so far this season? Second quarter of the season looked like a hard period for him, but Chris has recently upped his game by finishing 4th for twice in the last three rounds and has also outpaced Petter. Also Chris seems to have the ability to turn close battles into his favour - in NZ against Latvala and in MC against Hirvonen.

Glimmers of hope in a crap car.

Hard to judge him as a driver though as you never know if it is bad decision making that leads to his problems or trying to over come a flat out bad car.

Although, it looks like Chris is just about even with his team's lead driver in terms of being the highest finishing entrant, so there is something positive to be said about that compared to last year. Until Chris gets in a car that is proven to not be garbage it is hard to tell how he stacks up against the proven drivers in the series.

Finni

3rd September 2007, 02:00

It's nice to see how so-poor Chris is now getting some applauds. I have never criticized Chris. I saw some great promises already in the first season. Then it went harder with crap Subaru. Now he is beating even Petter. Altough that Petter we have now is not the same we had even in this season before Finland (only God knows why such situation). In any case Chris is doing respectable job and his pace is truelly awesome on asphalt.

Lalo

3rd September 2007, 02:07

Chris had some good results this year, even a couple of 4th positions where he wasn't likely to (Monte, Finland, New Zealand). I would love to see him in Japan where he has always been fast. Also maybe in Ireland, as he has been there last year in a group N Impreza.

He's delivering for sure... But next year will be far better, and more if the Impreza's issues are solved at last.

duff

3rd September 2007, 02:57

This fight in New Zealand has been great for Chris. His time on the last real stage, while under pressure, was incredible. Within 2 secs of Loeb and Gronholm, when they were pushing at absolute maximum, and he is driving a far inferior car. Very impressive.

I think the main thing is along with the great times he has put in of late matched with him beating Petter on many, many stages at the moment (even when Petter admits the car is going alright) he is showing that he can do the job. And yes the times on tarmac show a lot of potential there. His stock is definitely going up.

And again, let’s not forget which car he is in...

A.F.F.

3rd September 2007, 09:09

Yes, I have admit it too. Chris has not only been relatively fast but more important, consistent driver. Easily the lead driver of the team at the moment. :up:

jacko

3rd September 2007, 10:34

[quote="duff"]This fight in New Zealand has been great for Chris. His time on the last real stage, while under pressure, was incredible. Within 2 secs of Loeb and Gronholm, when they were pushing at absolute maximum, and he is driving a far inferior car. Very impressive. QUOTE]

Also the time of Manfred Stohl on that last long stage was extremly good, still another sign that the Xsara WRC has the speed and that rally still something has to do with drivers :)

Ontopic: Chris is doing only his third season and has showing already enough ( to me ) that he will become a future winner of rallies, his tarmac speed in Germany was incredible and has said he was already looking forward to the comming 2 tarmac rounds. Subaru will give the man very soon a new contract, i'm sure of that!