A slick problem?

[ArrowsFA1]

Following the announcement that slicks may be returning Bridgestone have run tests with their new slicks and one problem came up - cold slicks were a lot slower than heated ones, particularly as tyre warmers were not being used.

News today (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66122) suggests they're working on the problem, but this comment struck me:
"It took too long and there was an imbalance, because the rears warmed up quickly. So after two or three laps, the fronts were cold and the rears were hot. So the rears got a little bit tired before the fronts came in, which made it difficult to drive."
Errr...is driving a F1 car meant to be easy :confused: When we had slicks and no tyre warmers before drivers managed the tyres.

[wedge]

You could read that comment as either:

"the cold tyres presented us a new challenge"

or

"F1 should be the pinnacle and therefore us drivers should be pampered with gizmos so the car is easier to drive on the limit"

[Tazio]

Are tyre warmers going to be disallowed when slicks come back?

[ArrowsFA1]

The FIA's Technical Working Group met in July 2006 and a ban on the use of tyre warmers was discussed (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/53526), which Bridgestone supported at the time.

[Tazio]

The FIA's Technical Working Group met in July 2006 and a ban on the use of tyre warmers was discussed (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/53526), which Bridgestone supported at the time.
It seems to me that their decision may be "Half Baked" in a manner of speaking!
:rotflmao:

[Knock-on]

It's never been a problem keeping or getting heat in the rears as that's where the energy gets applied.

We are going to see some extreme wiggleing prior to the start :laugh:

I would suggest that the problem would be the same whether it's slicks or grooves.

[Dave B]

Given the current rules regarding not weaving about behind the safety car, restarts on cold tyres could be... interesting.

[Henry Cutts]

Other classes of racing manage without tyre warmers TC etc, its called driving talent! If you can’t drive without all the gadgets maybe they shouldn’t be in F1

[Tazio]

Other classes of racing manage without tyre warmers TC etc, its called driving talent! If you can’t drive without all the gadgets maybe they shouldn’t be in F1Other classes also run oxygen gas in their tires, as their ground clearance is not as critical and aerodynamics are not as advanced as today’s F1 cars. Why throw away all the advances that F1 has made. I suggest with your attitude that maybe you are satisfied with more crude racing disciplines, and should leave F1 to the fans that appreciate it's finer points!

[fandango]

"..it's finer points" should not have an apostrophe. This is a finer point of writing in English.
Perhaps you could be a little nicer to people, because I think he has a valid point. The reason for throwing away "advances" in F1 is to improve the human element and the spectacle. I think they should bring back clutches and gear sticks...

[Henry Cutts]

Other classes also run oxygen gas in their tires, as their ground clearance is not as critical and aerodynamics are not as advanced as today’s F1 cars. Why throw away all the advances that F1 has made. I suggest with your attitude that maybe you are satisfied with more crude racing disciplines, and should leave F1 to the fans that appreciate it's finer points!

My attitude? What "crude racing disciplines" should I be happy with?

My point was (and I think a lot of people would agree) the best drivers and engineers should, with all there skill and technology be able to make a car work without tyre warmers.

I was thinking about going to some races, but if that is the attitude I don’t think they will let me in! lol

[Tazio]

"..it's finer points" should not have an apostrophe. This is a finer point of writing in English.
Perhaps you could be a little nicer to people, because I think he has a valid point. The reason for throwing away "advances" in F1 is to improve the human element and the spectacle. I think they should bring back clutches and gear sticks...
Where is the apostrophe? I think you are imagining things!
All I see is finer points exclamation point!
BTW I have a BA in English Lit. ;)

[Tazio]

My attitude? What "crude racing disciplines" should I be happy with?

My point was (and I think a lot of people would agree) the best drivers and engineers should, with all there skill and technology be able to make a car work without tyre warmers.

I was thinking about going to some races, but if that is the attitude I don’t think they will let me in! lolSorry Henry! I was a little terse! I just believe if they change too much, too fast,
it will exacerbate the obsolescence of drivers who have groomed their craft around an evolving discipline!
I don't agree with dropping this practice. But, I respect all who's opinions differ!
Peace

[Tazio]

"..it's finer points" should not have an apostrophe. This is a finer point of writing in English.
Perhaps you could be a little nicer to people, because I think he has a valid point. The reason for throwing away "advances" in F1 is to improve the human element and the spectacle. I think they should bring back clutches and gear sticks...Well! I'm waiting!!!
You can send your apology
for misrepresenting my punctuation via PM

[trumperZ06]

It's never been a problem keeping or getting heat in the rears as that's where the energy gets applied.

We are going to see some extreme wiggleing prior to the start :laugh:

I would suggest that the problem would be the same whether it's slicks or grooves.

;) Hhmmm.... the proper way to warm up your racing tires is by....
accelerating & braking sharply... during the "warm-up lap".

Remember JPM running into the back of Schuey (@Monte Carlo I think) before the restart?

Swerving back & forth... only removes the trash on the surface... that does little to heat the tires.

Cold tires are a Bitch... returning to a Hot Track after a pit stop. The better drivers will "adjust"... it's all part of "Racing".

[trumperZ06]

Other classes also run oxygen gas in their tires, as their ground clearance is not as critical and aerodynamics are not as advanced as today’s F1 cars. Why throw away all the advances that F1 has made. I suggest with your attitude that maybe you are satisfied with more crude racing disciplines, and should leave F1 to the fans that appreciate it's finer points!

:dozey: Most forms of racing have been inflating tires with Nitrogen gas (for many years)... much lower increase in tire pressure as the tires warm up... due to eliminating moisture...
ie. H20.

[Tazio]

:dozey: Most forms of racing have been inflating tires with Nitrogen gas (for many years)... much lower increase in tire pressure as the tires warm up... due to eliminating moisture...
ie. H20.Here is where my F1 tech point comes into play.
I believe it was part of the 780 page dossier that Stepney absconded, or maybe his first hand knowledge,
that spilled the beans on specific gaseous blends that were somehow getting Ferrari better grip,
and overall tire performance. If this is IP, I really doubt that NASCAR, or any other Builder let alone,
a lesser series had developed this type of technology "for many years"
I like my F1 high tech! I am aware of the movement to slow cars down, and reduce cost!
It hasn't worked. I suspect that as other technical advantages are removed,
they will cleverly be replaced by some other mechanical means!
That's F1! And I love it!
Peace Bro

[trumperZ06]

Here is where my F1 tech point comes into play.
I believe it was part of the 780 page dossier that Stepney absconded, or maybe his first hand knowledge,
that spilled the beans on specific gaseous blends that were somehow getting Ferrari better grip,
and overall tire performance. If this is IP, I really doubt that NASCAR, or any other Builder let alone,
a lesser series had developed this type of technology "for many years"
I like my F1 high tech! I am aware of the movement to slow cars down, and reduce cost!
It hasn't worked. I suspect that as other technical advantages are removed,
they will cleverly be replaced by some other mechanical means!
That's F1! And I love it!
Peace Bro


:dozey: Hhmmmm.... The only thing new in last year's Ferrari's tires was substituting a different gas in place of commonly used Nitrogen.

:rolleyes: No one... to my knowledge, has EVER used pure OX (Oxygen) to inflate their tires. We all have thought of Helium, being it's a very light and inert gas, but NEVER OXYGEN, which would really feed a fire !!!

;) As I recall.... Ferrari was using CO2... maybe mixed with another inert gas such as.... you guessed it... Nitrogen !!!

By the way... how long have you been... Racing, Tazio ? Much of what is thought as new and exciting about F-1... has been around for quite some time.

F-1 has just taken it to a $$$ higher level $$$.

[wmcot]

I suggest with your attitude that maybe you are satisfied with more crude racing disciplines, and should leave F1 to the fans that appreciate it's finer points!

Yeah, the "crude" racing of the LeMans series and the ALMS for example! Those guys don't have a clue about proper racing, overtaking, aerodynamics, etc. (Oh, BTW, they don't use tire warmers, either and they seem to be able to control cars with 600 BHP or so!)

[Big Ben]

Well! I'm waiting!!!
You can send your apology
for misrepresenting my punctuation via PM

Not that I give a $h1T but I think it´s between "it" and "s"

[Tazio]

Ok, I see. Mistakenly using an apostrophe for the possessive. A huge blunder!
This has got to be the pettiest point ever made on this forum!
Congratulations. You win the day, and simultaneously lose the respect I always held for you!

[ioan]

Much of what is thought as new and exciting about F-1... has been around for quite some time.

F-1 has just taken it to a $$$ higher level $$$.

One of the rare things we agree on. ;)

[Big Ben]

Ok, I see. Mistakenly using an apostrophe for the possessive. A huge blunder!
This has got to be the pettiest point ever made on this forum!
Congratulations. You win the day, and simultaneously lose the respect I always held for you!

i hope you are not talking to me...

if you do... then I apologize

[Tazio]

i hope you are not talking to me...

if you do... then I apologize
No! You were the one that pointed out what it was that made my English punctually challenged!
My post was directed at the one that made an issue of it in the first place.
A move I really thought he was 'better than"!

[trumperZ06]

One of the rare things we agree on. ;)

:D You know Ioan,

it's the ole Pigs & Nuts syndrome.

;) I'm like the blind pig wandering in the Wilderness,

even I stumble across an acorn...

once in a while !!!

Cya @ the track,

:s mokin: Trumper

[Bagwan]

:D You know Ioan,

it's the ole Pigs & Nuts syndrome.

;) I'm like the blind pig wandering in the Wilderness,

even I stumble across an acorn...

once in a while !!!

Cya @ the track,

:s mokin: Trumper

You're metting your mixaphors .
Pigs hunt truffles and squirrels hunt nuts .

And , it's groundhogs , not beavers on track .

[trumperZ06]

You're metting your mixaphors .
Pigs hunt truffles and squirrels hunt nuts .

And , it's groundhogs , not beavers on track .

;) Hhmmm, Truffles.... you must either be French or had a sheltered life.

:D Our Razorbacked Wild Hogs down here will eat ANYTHING... rumor is, people included.

Now if you're feeling "frisky"... come on down and I'll take you hunting !!!

To make it sporting, you can use a Colt 45 auto, 1911 model to shoot one of these suckers, also included is an ole wash board & a big metal spoon to get the Pig's attention.

:s mokin: That will be a Challenge !!!

[Bagwan]

;) Hhmmm, Truffles.... you must either be French or had a sheltered life.

:D Our Razorbacked Wild Hogs down here will eat ANYTHING... rumor is, people included.

Now if you're feeling "frisky"... come on down and I'll take you hunting !!!

To make it sporting, you can use a Colt 45 auto, 1911 model to shoot one of these suckers, also included is an ole wash board & a big metal spoon to get the Pig's attention.

:s mokin: That will be a Challenge !!!

No surrender monkeys in this neighbourhood , Trump .
And I've been to Fousto's hood , where them javelinas hang .
I've also worked with the domestic pink variety , and even they can be a handfull at times , should they take a notion to throw the weight around .


Tests on slicks have been carried out , but if the tests were only for a day or 2 in each case , how long did they have to understand the tires ?

A lot of work goes into trying different set-ups with the different compounds available , acheiving what is hoped to be the best balance between the harder and softer options . Usually , the set-up is moved more towards the faster option , in hopes that the team can limit the amount of time on the other .
It's been an eternity in development time terms since they ran slicks , and I can see them taking some time to get the knack back .

This , I guess could be said of Bridgestone as well , but I doubt they have stopped making slicks in the meantime so they should know how still .

[trumperZ06]

;) awe but Bagwan,

If you were to take that ole wash board & metal spoon out into the woods... hunting one of those Razor-Back Hogs...

Why you would be Famous... might even become a legend...

and get you onto U-Tube !!!

:D Now/then, Bridgestone/Firestone's still making "Slicks" for open-wheel racing over here. I'm sure the technology's proven (slick's carcass) for changing over in Formula One. The rubber compound shouldn't be a problem, Champ Car was running two compounds for the past few years... that's where the idea came from for F-1.

The boys would have... lots of fun driving on slicks without TC on the track. In fact, the good drivers would benifit from higher cornering & exit speeds.

[Tazio]

;)

The boys would have... lots of fun driving on slicks without TC on the track. In fact, the good drivers would benifit from higher cornering & exit speeds. :( Which of course brings us back to why they were taken away in the first place! :confused:
I knew there was another reason why F1 is referred to as a circus ;)

[Mark]

F1 had had different available compounds going back decades. They certainly did not have to get the idea from America!

[trumperZ06]

F1 had had different available compounds going back decades. They certainly did not have to get the idea from America!

:dozey: Oh My... a little Touchy there, Mark !!!

;) Champ Car & Bridgestone/Firestone came up with the idea of having...

two tire compounds ( one softer than the other) that

HAD TO BE USED

during the race !!!

Formula One Adopted Bridgestone's idea a couple of year's ago !!!

I'm not at all sure it's such a Good Idea... but it did start in Champ Car.

[markabilly]

F1 had had different available compounds going back decades. They certainly did not have to get the idea from America!
America invented slicks for da dragsters and chasing wild hogs

[jso1985]

Nope, the Third World invented slick tyres after using the same set of pretty much worn by then tyres for 5 years on a bus... :p ;) now you know why I never take a bus when it's raining...