FIA meeting 26/03/2008

[wwbroe]

With immediate effect, the restriction on parts will be eased for new manufacturers in their first year of entering the Championship. A new manufacturer may ask the FIA for a waiver to use two additional engines without penalty, and a change of parts, as described in the Sporting Regulations.
The new technical regulations for the future World Rally Car will become effective from 2011. The WRC Car will be based on the current Super 2000 and Group N cars, fitted with a supplementary kit, which includes turbo and rear-wing additions. The kit must be able to be fitted or removed within a defined time limit, to be determined.
The current World Rally Car regulations will be extended to include the 2010 World Rally Championship, subject to technical controls. The new World Rally Car will be permitted to compete from 2009 and score points in the Championship from 2010.
The Japanese and British rounds of the 2008 FIA World Rally Championship will now take place on 31 October to 2 November (Japan Rally) and 5 to 7 December (Wales Rally GB).
From 1 January 2009, winning co-drivers in the FIA Junior and Production Car World Rally Championships will be awarded a world title.

[DonJippo]

With immediate effect, the restriction on parts will be eased for new manufacturers in their first year of entering the Championship. A new manufacturer may ask the FIA for a waiver to use two additional engines without penalty, and a change of parts, as described in the Sporting Regulations.

For Suzuki :)

[DonJippo]

The new World Rally Car will be permitted to compete from 2009 and score points in the Championship from 2010.

Are we going to see the return of Fiat and Alen to WRC? ;)

[J4MIE]

I wasn't in favour of adding a turbo to S2000 as that is most of the appeal but we will have to see what happens I guess, presumable the engines won't be too different to what they have at the moment? :(

[Mirek]

Since it should be FIA controlled turbo kit under special homologation fitted with controlled regulation I'm sure it will be very different to what we know from WRC. It was said it should be only a small turbo to boost the lower rpm torque which I think is possible without huge lowering rpm and therefore noise.

[teufel]

It would me much simplier to ban the electronics from the existing wrc cars, but let's hope the new regulations will bring some new manufacturer!

[N]

So this means that the compression ratio in the engine won't be changed after adding the turbo? It's a bit strange to have this concept, I mean, adding a turbo is not just a turbo, but intercooler, different ECU mapping, exhaust, intake pipes would be different, what about air intake restrictor. I know, they should run the turbos with a blowoff valve which makes that pssshhh noise, :D

[Mirek]

Yes, usualy it is very complicated. We must wait how it will work...

[J4MIE]

]Since it should be FIA controlled turbo kit under special homologation fitted with controlled regulation I'm sure it will be very different to what we know from WRC. It was said it should be only a small turbo to boost the lower rpm torque which I think is possible without huge lowering rpm and therefore noise.

I hope you're right Mirek :)

[OldF]

IMO this was the best solution to keep the current manufacturers and to attract new ones. My only concern is that FIA should come up with such turbo that allow higher revs and thereby nicer sound that the N-group and WRC cars produce nowadays.


So this means that the compression ratio in the engine won't be changed after adding the turbo? It's a bit strange to have this concept, I mean, adding a turbo is not just a turbo, but intercooler, different ECU mapping, exhaust, intake pipes would be different, what about air intake restrictor. I know, they should run the turbos with a blowoff valve which makes that pssshhh noise, :D

The maximum compression ratio for S2000 is 13:1 and I’m sure that they have to lower the compression ratio with a turbo. I think a N-group car uses compression ratios between 9:1 – 10:1 and WRC cars +10:1.


It would me much simplier to ban the electronics from the existing wrc cars, but let's hope the new regulations will bring some new manufacturer!

” The current World Rally Car regulations will be extended to include the 2010 World Rally Championship, subject to technical controls. The new World Rally Car will be permitted to compete from 2009 and score points in the Championship from 2010.”

From 2010 the old and new WRC cars compete in the same championship, so I think they have to downsize the current WRC cars from what they are now.

[AndyRAC]

To be honest I'm not that bothered what the cars are, as long as we get more Manufacturers and more seats for more drivers.
If not then the rules have failed. But, here's hoping.

[duff]

To be honest I'm not that bothered what the cars are, as long as we get more Manufacturers and more seats for more drivers.


Agreed but also... please, please, please... LESS GADGETS, MORE SIDEWAYS!

[Rally Power]

Fantastic News, i'm sure this S2000+ formula will bring more manufacteurs to the WRC. :bounce:

Fiat, Toyota, Peugeot and Mitsubishi have now a great opportunity to join Citroën, Ford, Subaru and Suzuki.

22 moths till the begining of the 2010 WRC...I feel like a kid waiting for christmas :D

[OldF]

Fantastic News, i'm sure this S2000+ formula will bring more manufacteurs to the WRC. :bounce:

Fiat, Toyota, Peugeot and Mitsubishi have now a great opportunity to join Citroën, Ford, Subaru and Suzuki.

22 moths till the begining of the 2010 WRC...I feel like a kid waiting for christmas :D

Me too. I think it’s going to be an interest season 2010, old and new WRC cars competing against each other.

[tmx]

So this means that the compression ratio in the engine won't be changed after adding the turbo? It's a bit strange to have this concept, I mean, adding a turbo is not just a turbo, but intercooler, different ECU mapping, exhaust, intake pipes would be different, what about air intake restrictor. I know, they should run the turbos with a blowoff valve which makes that pssshhh noise, :D

the s2000 is built base on light weight, the turbo will give out so much torque that will destroy the current tranmission they are using, so they'll have to built stroner one but will cause change in the car balance, reworks on the driveshaft system too, then it'll become expensive again. i think it would take some work, but interesting to see what they'll do.

[Helstar]

the s2000 is built base on light weight, the turbo will give out so much torque that will destroy the current tranmission they are using, so they'll have to built stroner one but will cause change in the car balance, reworks on the driveshaft system too, then it'll become expensive again. i think it would take some work, but interesting to see what they'll do.
I agree, thus this turbo thingye should be forgotten ! Just go for S2000 and that's it !

They are already nice to see (and hear !) now, you figure in 2-3 years of development ... surely not WRC level of nowadays, but who cares ? They go on rails, so I prefer little bit slower, but good sounds and a lot of sideways action :p
And of course let's not forget how many manu will enter ! FIAT, Skoda/WV, Peugeot, Toyota, MG, and many more hopefully...

[bennizw]

I think this will become quite interesting. Cheaper cars, more manufacters, more factory drivers, close competition and more general interest around the championship. This regulation must sincerly result in a positive outcome for the WRC?

[DonJippo]

then it'll become expensive again.

I would not call the current 300k€ price for finished S2000 cheap either.

[AndyRAC]

I think this will become quite interesting. Cheaper cars, more manufacters, more factory drivers, close competition and more general interest around the championship. This regulation must sincerly result in a positive outcome for the WRC?

Well that's the theory, I hope we're all not going to be disappointed? Surely the FIA have consulted with current and would be Manufacturers.

[DonJippo]

Surely the FIA have consulted with current and would be Manufacturers.

Yes they have.

[Leon]

Just a small question.

Is there a confirmation anywhere that all those manufacturers with S2000 cars (Fiat, Peugeot etc.) or those having plans to build S2000 cars will and for sure enter the WRC as works entries in 2011, thus increasing the popularity of the WRc, insrease works seats etc.?

If I remember correctly, only fiat said so, but I did not hear/read of any concrete plans from certain manufacturers about this new S2000 WRC.

anyone knows?

[urabus-denoS2000]

Peugeot said 3 years ago when thez announced the S2000 project that it doesnt mean that they will come back.
But that was 3 years ago and still 3 to come.
Maybe they will change their minds?

[Elvisrally]

We see it in all forms of sport. They go full circle.

The WRC saw this in the 80's. we had the collapse of group B and the intro of group A. Over the years the teams have found ways to improve the cars performance in line with the regulations laid down by the FIA. I believe this is the way forward for the WRC as I think new manufacturers will become a part of it. We will see the return of teams from the past but this will also encourage new manufacturers.

All we need now is the right promotional activity to encourage these new teams and we will have an amazing championship with some really close results.

Elvis

[Mirek]

Leon: I'm sure that if Fabia is competitive in standard S2000 version, Skoda will return into WRC. But if not, then definitely not.

[AndyRAC]

All we need now is the right promotional activity to encourage these new teams and we will have an amazing championship with some really close results.

Elvis


Mmm, that should be interesting, how will they do that then? Water it down even further, when in fact they should be doing the exact opposite. Making it more of a challenge, bring back the endurance factor!!

[koko0703]

So from 2011 on, the current WRC models cannot compete at all??? I think the new regulation will encourage new manufacturers to enter WRC but it must be a big blow for Subaru and Suzuki.... They only have two seasons to use their new WRCars even if their current WRCars turned out to be winner.

[Mirek]

I'm sure they know what is going on for quite long time and count with it.

[N.O.T]

the new formula will be around 100-150k cheaper than the current one maybe more.....now don;t everyone jump into conclusions, its a different thing to build such a car and to compete in the WRC....the encouraging thing is that more and more teams are building s2000 cars but i doubt that all of them will enter the series.

[OldF]

I think the suspension is quite close to each other on S2000 and WRC cars. The biggest differences I assume are the gearbox, electronics + software and the turbo. In the program “engineering the world rally” Subaru told that it cost them 600.000 euros to build a WRC car. If we add to that development, testing etc. the final “price” is probably close to 1 million euros what is what I’ve read / heard.

From the beginning of 2010 both old and new WRCs compete for the same championship so maybe the WRC cars of today have been stripped down a bit by then. This IMO means that they (Ford, Subaru, Citroen Suzuki) don’t have to start from scratch when building the new WRC cars.

Lets hope for the best.

[Elvisrally]

AndyRAC

I would want nothing more than to jump in the car with my quilt, Flask, Waterproofs and boots and descend in to the forests of the UK adding loads of mileage to a hire car and following an event for 5 days and pretty much not sleeping the whole time.

but in this world of political correctness and 'save the environment', those days have unfortunately gone. I don't like the new format events,(not enough time away from the misses), They are too small and are nothing like the tests that I remember in the 80's or even 90's. The limited competetive mileage is s#/t and the double running of stages even worse.

Unfortunately we live in a culture where the WRC has its limits placed by the FIA. They would never sanction such a thing anymore, They would not be able to justify bringing the country to a standstill, The popularity of the WRC has grown. I live near Penmachno and Clocaenog forests and however much I would love to see the cars in these forests again, I know that it would bring North Wales to a standstill.

The manufacturers and sponsors are after value for money.

I prefer the championship of old and would want nothing more than to see its return. I hope that Rally GB will introduce the remote service and we can go to Sweet Lamb again, I would also like to be somewhere other than South Wales for our round of the WRC, have rally Safari back on the calender, Have more mileage in the stages, but I don't think it will happen .

New teams will only come to the WRC if it will sell their cars......

I don't like it, but thats the way it is unfortunately.

Elvis

[AndyRAC]

AndyRAC

I would want nothing more than to jump in the car with my quilt, Flask, Waterproofs and boots and descend in to the forests of the UK adding loads of mileage to a hire car and following an event for 5 days and pretty much not sleeping the whole time.

but in this world of political correctness and 'save the environment', those days have unfortunately gone. I don't like the new format events,(not enough time away from the misses), They are too small and are nothing like the tests that I remember in the 80's or even 90's. The limited competetive mileage is s#/t and the double running of stages even worse.

Unfortunately we live in a culture where the WRC has its limits placed by the FIA. They would never sanction such a thing anymore, They would not be able to justify bringing the country to a standstill, The popularity of the WRC has grown. I live near Penmachno and Clocaenog forests and however much I would love to see the cars in these forests again, I know that it would bring North Wales to a standstill.

The manufacturers and sponsors are after value for money.

I prefer the championship of old and would want nothing more than to see its return. I hope that Rally GB will introduce the remote service and we can go to Sweet Lamb again, I would also like to be somewhere other than South Wales for our round of the WRC, have rally Safari back on the calender, Have more mileage in the stages, but I don't think it will happen .

New teams will only come to the WRC if it will sell their cars......

I don't like it, but thats the way it is unfortunately.

Elvis

Yes, I know, I'm fully aware if the reasons, that you've rightly pointed out. However, I seem to recall recently both Morrie Chandler(WRC boss) and Quesnal (Citroen boss) both stating the need to spread out the routes a little. I know we can't go back to the glorious past, but a little imagination of routes would go a long way - instead of the same format and same stages used year in year out. The WRC, to be frank, is stale - yet I'll always follow it and support it - but I can't help feel it needs a shot in the arm. Each round needs to be different - even Sainz said it; an event used to 'paralyse' a country - now you'd hardly know it was taking place - sounds familiar?

[BDunnell]

Yes, I know, I'm fully aware if the reasons, that you've rightly pointed out. However, I seem to recall recently both Morrie Chandler(WRC boss) and Quesnal (Citroen boss) both stating the need to spread out the routes a little. I know we can't go back to the glorious past, but a little imagination of routes would go a long way - instead of the same format and same stages used year in year out. The WRC, to be frank, is stale - yet I'll always follow it and support it - but I can't help feel it needs a shot in the arm. Each round needs to be different - even Sainz said it; an event used to 'paralyse' a country - now you'd hardly know it was taking place - sounds familiar?

:up:

I don't quite understand how the compact routes we see nowadays are expected to do anything other than narrow the appeal of the events. Taking Rally GB as an example, being realistic, the only people who are going to come from much outside Wales to watch are enthusiasts who would probably be there anyway. Therefore, the rally's catchment area is restricted substantially by using so few stages. What does the FIA expect — for the locals to come out in their droves, day after day? They are missing an opportunity to show rallying to more people.

(Oh, and going back to the previous post, quite how 'political correctness' can be blamed for the current state of WRC events, I have no idea. Again, it's being used as a catch-all term.)