Homestead Report

[anthonyvop]

Homestead Musings Part “Duh”


Cold (By South Florida standards) and windy. Cross-winds through the corners.

Very tense atmosphere. Teams are not happy. Not happy about the merger. Not happy about the rush to get ready for the race. And some not happy about the chassis they have acquired.

One Mechanic told me that the car that they received bends like a skateboard. A crew chief told me that there just wasn’t enough time to get ready.

Was told that ticket sales are slower than last years, Yep. Merger is reaping benefits already.

Was weird to see the N/H/L McDonalds colors on a Dallara.

The Coyne People were still rushing to get Bruno’s car together. Was finally finished until after the dinner break. Then he couldn’t find a gear when the final session began.
Once the car was fixed Bruno quickly became smooth out there.

Interesting to see so many cars with noses and other parts that have pain schemes that are obviously from other teams.

Servia really impressed me. He was fast.

Wilson looked tentative.

Did you know that Bondo fixes Carbon Fiber on a Dallara?

I am really beginning to hate Oval racing for formula cars. We were on the roof of the Speedway when Graham backed into turn 2. For a second I was really worried but he emerged unscathed.
We got the whole thing on tape. Jeff, my main man, has a knack at following the car that will do something interesting. He was following Graham around for a few laps leading up to the crash and got it all on tape.
We took it to the N/H/L hauler and sat with Graham and his crew chief and went over the tape. He got loose in turn one passing Servia. When he corrected the car also bottomed out and lost grip which caused him to back into the wall in turn to. Pretty cool comparing the telemetry to the video.

The N/H/L guys will be working all tomorrow trying to put Graham’s car back together for this weekend. Biggest problem….No Spare Parts.

[Hoop-98]

When you bail out a bankrupt series it ain't all fun eh. Too bad there was no one left to pay for the racing in CCWS. Kinda surprised PG and GF couldn't find funding since it was so close to success, strange they left it up to KK to fund 2008 or quit?

I volunteerd a fair amount for Katrina, those folks weren't real happy either, but we did the best we could under the circumstance. Easy to criticize when you aren't willing to step up.

rh

[ROBHARRIS]

When you bail out a bankrupt series it ain't all fun eh. Too bad there was no one left to pay for the racing in CCWS. Kinda surprised PG and GF couldn't find funding since it was so close to success, strange they left it up to KK to fund 2008 or quit?

I volunteerd a fair amount for Katrina, those folks weren't real happy either, but we did the best we could under the circumstance. Easy to criticize when you aren't willing to step up.

rh

why do you people have to be such idiots all the time? every time someone makes a comment that's not to your liking, you have to put yout irl spin on it. personally I'am getting tired of it, and alot of other people are as well & the season hasn't even started yet. you better hope that that the former fans of champcar evenually come over and support this series, or this whole takeover thing won't last very long.

[-Helix-]

Not happy with the merger? Riiight.

Boo money and succes of American open wheel! [/sarcasm]

I hope you meant the rushed timing of the merger, not the actual merger itself. Only ignorant fools like the Fanatics or GF would think a merger was a bad thing. I don't think anyone actually in the business is that stupid. Everyone knew it needed to get done.

But nice CC spin-job though. Could you be any more negative?

These guys should be happy with what they get. They've received a LOT more charity than they deserve. Not the IRL's fault if they stuck around a doomed to fail series so long. Maybe CC should've chosen a better time to go bankrupt than when Dallara has so much demand as it does now.

Ovals have always been and always will be a part of American open wheel racing. And there's nothing wrong with them. You guys act like it's a new thing just because CC took a little break from them. Not all of us want an F1-lite ladder series.

And nobody should expect ticket sales to increase overnight. So the IRL merged with some series most people didn't even know existed. So what? It's going to take a better product and a few seasons of development to bring AOW back to it's former self. Having all the teams and all the races in one series instead of two is just the STARTING POINT for the reconstruction. Some of you act like because it isn't perfect now that it's always going to be horrible.

[seppefan]

[quote="anthonyvop"]Homestead Musings Part “Duh”



quote]

Thanks for the report. Interesting. Lets hope the Indy series gets out to 20 races with a max of ten maybe eight ovals. I would expect that to be the case in 2010.

[Lousada]

Yes I think we're close to the 'tipping point'.

[anthonyvop]

Not happy with the merger? Riiight.

Maybe in your world people who don't have the same tastes that you do are stupid but in the real world people are different.
Why does it bother you that some people don't like the IRL?


I hope you meant the rushed timing of the merger, not the actual merger itself. Only ignorant fools like the Fanatics or GF would think a merger was a bad thing. I don't think anyone actually in the business is that stupid. Everyone knew it needed to get done.
Not everyone. I, for one, never wanted a merger. We had two distinct series with different formulas.
Now that the merger has happened rest assured that the IRL of the future will not resemble the IRL of Today. It can't. Just as the IRL of Today does not even remotely resemble the IRL of 10 years ago.


But nice CC spin-job though. Could you be any more negative?
It is only negative to those who disagree.


These guys should be happy with what they get. They've received a LOT more charity than they deserve. Not the IRL's fault if they stuck around a doomed to fail series so long. Maybe CC should've chosen a better time to go bankrupt than when Dallara has so much demand as it does now.
Until the merger there was little or no demand for the Dallara.


Ovals have always been and always will be a part of American open wheel racing. And there's nothing wrong with them.
Again we have a case of you not allowing for the fact that some people have different tastes. I have raced various types of cars and driven Many others. Including an IRL Car. I have even raced on an Oval. I have been in the biz for over 15 years.
Guess what? I don't like Oval racing! Now tell me how I am wrong!


And nobody should expect ticket sales to increase overnight. So the IRL merged with some series most people didn't even know existed. So what?
As opposed to a series that had the same TV Ratings as Champ Car and less fans in the stands(Indy 500 Excluded. They could run sprint cars and would get big numbers.)


It's going to take a better product and a few seasons of development to bring AOW back to it's former self. Having all the teams and all the races in one series instead of two is just the STARTING POINT for the reconstruction. Some of you act like because it isn't perfect now that it's always going to be horrible.
My Point exactly. Over the next few years you will see the IRL morph into a Version of CART form the 80's. But with less Ovals.

[tbyars]

Tony-

As I suggested in another thread, if you are truly attempting to be a fair journalist, perhaps you could be more accurate if you quit trying to sell the entire process that has just occured as a "merger." Obviously, it was not, and your use of the term is simply an attempt on your part to justify your desire that things should be going differently for the former CCWS teams.

Perhaps, in that same light, in regard to your post above, you could share with all of us YOUR alternative of what should have happened. One restriction, of course, is that you are not allowed to spend KK and GF's money for them. It's pretty obvious that there was not going to be a 2008 CCWS season without extensive owner support, and that wasn't going to happen. So, considering those facts, what is your suggestion as to what would have been better for the CCWS teams for 2008?

I'll be anxious to hear your suggestions.

[seppefan]

Homestead Musings Part “

Wilson looked tentative.



.

I think it is the height problem which scuppered his F1 career.

[Chris R]

Hasn't Homestead always been a marginal track for attendance, even in the CART days??? Seems like the heart of NASCAR world is not the best place to start the IRL season....

[nigelred5]

Hasn't Homestead always been a marginal track for attendance, even in the CART days??? Seems like the heart of NASCAR world is not the best place to start the IRL season....

I wouldn't exactly call Miami the heart of NASCAR country, but Yes you are correct.
Fwiw, it's generally not even a guaranteed sell out for the NASCAR races. For what ever reason, the Miami market just isn't the racing central that people seem to think it should be simply because a few brazilian drivers choose to live in the area. Homestead isn't exactly downtown Miami either. They start there because it's spring getaway/tourist season and nice, warm and realtively dry in South Florida in March.

The success in attracting spectators or lack thereof is largely due to the fact that ISC simply quit promoting open wheel racing at their tracks, All of them. Actually, I'm not so sure they ever did. Penske owned the tracks when they had successful events.

[Pat Wiatrowski]

why do you people have to be such idiots all the time? every time someone makes a comment that's not to your liking, you have to put yout irl spin on it. personally I'am getting tired of it, and alot of other people are as well & the season hasn't even started yet. you better hope that that the former fans of champcar evenually come over and support this series, or this whole takeover thing won't last very long.

This former CART/CC fan is NOT coming over and I hope the .irl falls flat on its ugyl face.

[Breeze]

why do you people have to be such idiots all the time? every time someone makes a comment that's not to your liking, you have to put yout irl spin on it. personally I'am getting tired of it, and alot of other people are as well & the season hasn't even started yet. you better hope that that the former fans of champcar evenually come over and support this series, or this whole takeover thing won't last very long.

For the record, in my experience, Hoop 98 has been a CART/Champ Car fan first and foremost, IRL fan second. And his perspective has ALWAYS been among the most realistic and unbiased on this forum. There, take that Mr. 95 posts ROBHARRIS. ;)

[ChicagocrewIRL]

I kind of noticed that all the pictures coming out of Homestead, no one is smiling. No one. Maybe it's the serious and crunch time nature of whole event but no one seemed happy .

Unlike others though (like our thread starter) I don't take joy in this fact.

[Rogelio]

Hasn't Homestead always been a marginal track for attendance, even in the CART days??? Seems like the heart of NASCAR world is not the best place to start the IRL season....

I could not agree with you more. As a former CART/Champ Car fan and a "let's see" fan of the IRL, the series definitely needs a marquee opening of the season. Long Beach is a great event but too late in April. Hopefully, next year they get the year started with a great opening race. An opening race that announces to the racing community that the series is ready to roll, with the stands full of fans.

Back to Homestead, I hope the former Champ Car teams/drivers are prepared for the action Saturday night. I think they are going to be a little apprehensive driving around at 200 mph.

[garyshell]

why do you people have to be such idiots all the time? every time someone makes a comment that's not to your liking, you have to put yout irl spin on it. personally I'am getting tired of it, and alot of other people are as well & the season hasn't even started yet. you better hope that that the former fans of champcar evenually come over and support this series, or this whole takeover thing won't last very long.


Oh, give it a rest already. Yeah, Hoop may be an IRL fan but he was also a CCWS fan and one of the most even keeled commenters on this forum. He dished it out to both sides. Go back and read anthonyvop's comments in this thread and others. It is not as if HE isn't coming to all this with a VERY strong anti-IRL bias. You want "fair and balanced"? Then demand it from BOTH sides or go find the Fox News channel.

Gary

[ChicagocrewIRL]

This former CART/CC fan is NOT coming over and I hope the .irl falls flat on its ugyl face.


blah blah blah hater sheesh get over yourself... I think you would be much happier at crapwagon.com

[EagleEye]

Too bad there was no one left to pay for the racing in CCWS. Kinda surprised PG and GF couldn't find funding since it was so close to success, strange they left it up to KK to fund 2008 or quit?
rh


Since when is loosing over $10million/year, being close to success?

No aplogies requested for those who bashed me and others as "D&G"s" when all we presented were the facts.

The good news...one series, 26 cars. At least the teams that wanted to race, had a series to go to. The timing was terrible, but that fall flat on KK.

This same deal was discussed earlier in the year, when in the same 48 hour period I personally heard KK say the series was and then was not for sale.

Give it a chance.

[downtowndeco]

Since when is loosing over $10million/year, being close to success?

He was being sarcastic.

[garyshell]

Maybe in your world people who don't have the same tastes that you do are stupid but in the real world people are different.
Why does it bother you that some people don't like the IRL?

Then why, pray tell, are you even here? If you don't like the IRL, you might want to taker a look at the title of this forum. It clearly reads "IndyCar" not CCWS that one was closed and shuttered when the CCWS CEASED OPERATIONS.


Not everyone. I, for one, never wanted a merger. We had two distinct series with different formulas.
Now that the merger has happened rest assured that the IRL of the future will not resemble the IRL of Today. It can't. Just as the IRL of Today does not even remotely resemble the IRL of 10 years ago.

Hello, Cleopatra. Tell us again about those two formulas and how well they did in the thirteen year split. Look, Anthony, I was never an IRL fan. I was at the US500 and voted with my feet by never watching or going to an IRL race. I was literally a "card carrying" Champ Car fan. (But NEVER a CCF.com idiot.) And I realized, about a year or so ago, that this 13 year experiment was doomed to failure for BOTH sides unless a unification could occur. I was deluding myself prior to that in thinking that somehow two series could survive. From a fan standpoint sure, it could. But from a pure BUSINESS standpoint there was no freakin' way. I await your BUSINESS plan that shows exactly how the Queen of De Nile would have righted the sinking ship.


It is only negative to those who disagree.

It is only negative to anyone with the smallest semblance of understanding of the English language.



Again we have a case of you not allowing for the fact that some people have different tastes. I have raced various types of cars and driven Many others. Including an IRL Car. I have even raced on an Oval. I have been in the biz for over 15 years.
Guess what? I don't like Oval racing! Now tell me how I am wrong!

So what? You don't like Oval racing. Who gives a rat's @@@? How does it make you right in your rejection of OTHER peoples different tastes?


As opposed to a series that had the same TV Ratings as Champ Car and less fans in the stands(Indy 500 Excluded. They could run sprint cars and would get big numbers.)

How convenient that you can so easily exclude the Indy 500. If you had as much understanding of Business as you pretend to have about racing you would realize that the 600 pound gorilla is, was, and will always be the Indy 500. Like it or not, it is what drives Madison avenue. And like it or not Madison Avenue is what drives open wheel racing in the US. Unless you can come up with another funding source for the teams, we are stuck with this FACT.


My Point exactly. Over the next few years you will see the IRL morph into a Version of CART form the 80's. But with less Ovals.

"will morph"??? You are kidding right? I thought you were a motorsports reporter, you can't see that the proper verb is "has morphed"?

Gary

[keysersoze]

Gary, I thought that gorilla weighed 800 pounds, not 600. :D

[garyshell]

Gary, I thought that gorilla weighed 800 pounds, not 600. :D


Nope, the gorilla went out dancing a few times with Helio and lost some weight.

Gary

[downtowndeco]

This same report was posted at CCF and they reacted like a bunch of monkeys at the zoo at feeding time. Much back slapping, hooting and excited babble. That should tell you everything you need to know about how unbiased this "report" was. CC management played to that crowd too and it lead them straight to BK.

[ezhop7]

It's sort of funny that the CART/Champcar fans keep begging for more road races. Hmmm I thought that Tony George bought out KK/Champcar! Tony George first hast to be loyal to the track owners who supported the IRL so races like Texas, Kansas City, Chicago, Richmond, Iowa, Kentucky and Nashville are not going away( these are the best attended IRL races too besides Indy). I think the best that Champ road racing group can hope to see in new venues is maybe Toronto, a new street race somewhere in the western part of the USA and maybe a race in the Rocky Mtn states either Salt Lake or Denver. But to be blunt it comes down to one thing now that the series is unified can TG make money by going to a new venue. I would say he is finished with spending his own money now the series must grow on its own accord.

[LuigiStone]

What a silly man. I regularly read crapwagon.com. Why? Because they are the quickest to report any news regarding the IRL. It's pretty funny considering "none of them watch" or like the Indycar series. But they sure know everything going on in the IRL world. I also read their stuff for the laughs. I find it funny that they have so little life that they have the time to hate on something with such passion.

[bblocker68]

Now where's that "rimshot" smiley?????

Every time I hear Helio's name, I pray that PT gets a ride for the Indy 500. It will make for some fantastic PR.

[Rogelio]

It's sort of funny that the CART/Champcar fans keep begging for more road races. Hmmm I thought that Tony George bought out KK/Champcar! Tony George first hast to be loyal to the track owners who supported the IRL so races like Texas, Kansas City, Chicago, Richmond, Iowa, Kentucky and Nashville are not going away( these are the best attended IRL races too besides Indy). I think the best that Champ road racing group can hope to see in new venues is maybe Toronto, a new street race somewhere in the western part of the USA and maybe a race in the Rocky Mtn states either Salt Lake or Denver. But to be blunt it comes down to one thing now that the series is unified can TG make money by going to a new venue. I would say he is finished with spending his own money now the series must grow on its own accord.

Not to open up an old can of worms, but I will, and I am sure many of us former CART/Champ Car die hards will keep harpering on this topic for months if not years. The IRL/TG won not because they put out a better product, but mostly because of the Indy 500, the loss of CART teams, sponsorship, etc... Toronto, Long Beach, Cleveland, Vancouver (long ago) are all successful venues. Street venues are worthwhile and can be successful. If TG and his all oval racing series were so successful when he started back in 1996, then why have former CART circuits been added (Mid-Ohio, St. Petersberg, Detroit and the other road courses)?

I would argue that TG realizes that the success in the series may lie in its diversity. You want oval racing every weekend, watch NASCAB. I love watiching NASCAB, but OWR is much more exciting. Street circuits are 3 day events/parties that cities love because of the revenue it brings in. They can be successful if done properly: example Long Beach. Vegas was a blast last year and hopefully, the IRL will consider it.

[pits4me]

When you bail out a bankrupt series it ain't all fun eh. Too bad there was no one left to pay for the racing in CCWS. Kinda surprised PG and GF couldn't find funding since it was so close to success, strange they left it up to KK to fund 2008 or quit?

rh

I would have expected something a bit better than this Hoop. Don't forget DP and ML. KK certainly pulled the wool over your eyes. Tony didn't waste anytime renaming the Indy Pro to Indy lights. Hmmmmm.

How many Ex CC drivers would like to race these gems of a race car on the streets of Long Beach? One subject Robin Miller will not broach. FYI, I'm all for a unified solution that's in the best interest of North American Open Wheel Racing. Just a shame a four consecutive year championship team has to rely on fan video for driver debrief.

[Hoop-98]

I would have expected something a bit better than this Hoop. Don't forget DP and ML. KK certainly pulled the wool over your eyes. Tony didn't waste anytime renaming the Indy Pro to Indy lights. Hmmmmm.

How many Ex CC drivers would like to race these gems of a race car on the streets of Long Beach? One subject Robin Miller will not broach. FYI, I'm all for a unified solution that's in the best interest of North American Open Wheel Racing. Just a shame a four consecutive year championship team has to rely on fan video for driver debrief.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on the cars. The rest is my opinion, that's all. Now I think I have seen just about every quote from every driver I can find and I don't hear the adjectives you choose to describe the car from any of them. I guess I'll have to ask them in person, because I just don't think this report had anything to do with "reporting or journalism".

And continuing to use the rhetoric with no quotes or sources seemsa lil childish.

jm2c feel free to differ

rh

[ezhop7]

Rogelio , What I'm trying to say is that The IRL must not get rid of the so called cookie 1.5 mile ovals that do create great racing because of the side by side racing or the short ovals. Like it or not when Texas has 90k fans and IOWA sells out that is good for promoting a growing series. The IRL needs to add more race and street circuits definately is the easiest way to go. In fact I would like the IRL to ditch Watkins Glen and move the race to the Meadowlands or Wash DC area,but will that happen. The IRL has the majority of its races in the Midwest...maybe they could come west with a race in Denver or Salt Lake...a street race in Phoenix may be the way to go or maybe Calgary. But with all that said , the bottom line is now "The ball is in TG hands to either grow the series or fade away into the sunset."

[tbyars]

I'd really like to see a race at Miller in Salt Lake, simply because I want an excuse to eat at Tiburon, which is Ken's restaurant. (If I can trust him not to stick his dirty finger in my wine just to spite me!!! ;)

[Alexamateo]

I'd really like to see a race at Miller in Salt Lake, simply because I want an excuse to eat at Tiburon, which is Ken's restaurant. (If I can trust him not to stick his dirty finger in my wine just to spite me!!! ;)

Be sure to order the foie gras! ;)

[anthonyvop]

I never was one to wish for one series to win out over another series.
I want both series to win as I see them as 2 totaly different formulas.

I do not hide the fact that I preferred Champ Car but I never hated the IRL and also watched or attended their races as well.
My preference for Champ Car was just a matter of taste and I won't get into that now as that has nothing to do with this thread.
I wrote the report as a person who knows many of the teams, crews and drivers. If my empathy was all too obvious I make no apologies. It is hard for them.
I understand that some cannot grasp that there are people who did not like, or even hated, the IRL. Like it or not it is a reality. Some are Owners, members and drivers of Champ Car team so it is doubly hard on them. Some will say; "So quit". Last time i looked there weren't a lot of job openings under race car crew or Formula Car driver in the want ads.

Now that the Merger has occurred I want the series to be successful. Both series had major flaws and the combined series still has some. I realize it will take some time.

I started this thread with my report from the test at Homestead. Everything in the report is factual. If it ruffled some feathers...so be it. That just means I am doing my job.

[Dr. Krogshöj]

Now where's that "rimshot" smiley?????

Every time I hear Helio's name, I pray that PT gets a ride for the Indy 500. It will make for some fantastic PR.

Me too. There will be some nice rivalries this year (Marco/Graham, Wilson/Wheldon, Power/Briscoe) but the real deals would have been the Tracy vs. Helio and the Hornish vs. Bourdais rivalries.

[garyshell]

Was told that ticket sales are slower than last years, Yep. Merger is reaping benefits already.


Did you know that Bondo fixes Carbon Fiber on a Dallara?

I am really beginning to hate Oval racing for formula cars.


Everything in the report is factual.

I'll take the rest of your reply at face value. But want to suggest that not everything was factual in the original report. Parts (the ones quoted at the top here) were editorial. There is a very real difference. If you want to call yourself a reporter, you need to loose the editorial bent OR you should give yourself a different title... one of commentator. I am picking nits here a bit, but only because this very same issue came up in conversations about Robin Miller and his role as a reporter versus his role as a commentator.

If you want to editorialize go ahead! Great, do it. Just don't try to hide it as part of a report. Get out in front of it. Proclaim the fact that you are editorializing, don't try to hide from it.

Gary

[anthonyvop]

If you want to editorialize go ahead! Great, do it. Just don't try to hide it as part of a report. Get out in front of it. Proclaim the fact that you are editorializing, don't try to hide from it.

Gary
I started the report with......Homestead Musings Part “Duh”

MUSINGS mus·ings [ myzingz ]

plural noun
Definition: thoughts: thoughts, especially when aimless and unsystematic

There ya go!!!!

[garyshell]

I started the report with......Homestead Musings Part “Duh”

Then latter in the thread you claimed:


Everything in the report is factual.

You can't slice it both ways. Which is why I brought up the point of the obvious confusion between reporting and commentary.

Gary

[F1boat]

I sometimes wonder why fans of a dead series come here to bash the sport, which gave the name of the forum board...

[LuigiStone]

I sometimes wonder why fans of a dead series come here to bash the sport, which gave the name of the forum board...

Because they are bitter and have no life. And it's pretty sad because I really loved CART (not CCWS though) and their devoted fans. I also wish for a lot of the same stuff to happen in AOWR as they do. (But not lose the ovals) Turbos and faster cars etc. (But not the POS DP01 which looks like a lower class formula car)