Alonso Not Happy At Renault[merged]

[Valve Bounce]

Maybe what Luca meant was that because teams sometimes get "innovative and creative" in their interpretation of rules and technical specifications, he doesn't need a driver that would threaten to rat him out to the FIA when the driver is a little unhappy. Put simply, he may not trust him.

I think just about all teams get innovative, and I am sure some would be accessing some of their competitors' information through whatever mens available.
It is essential for drivers to be totally loyal to their team under such circumstances.

[Tazio]

From Eurosport: [Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo has said he does not want to sign double world champion Fernando Alonso to the Formula One team, believing such a move would be "damaging".] full article here: [url]http://eurosport.yahoo.com/22042008/58/ferrari-alonso-signing-damaging.

For starters you can't even quote a link without turning it into a lie! :down:
This is what LDM said in your artical;
"To line up a Raikkonen-Alonso double act would mean wanting to damage yourself"
I don't hold Luca D's opinions about F1 in very high regaurd.

This is the most "damaging" concept in the whole article from a Ferrari fans perspective,

"Di Montezemolo added that he intends to spend more time with Ferrari after leaving his role at the head of Italy's industry body"

God forbid! He is a talking head, and I hope he keeps his hands out of F1!
Cheers

[leopard]

That statement was sort of affirmation to strategy Ferrari has been implementing so far. :D

[Big Ben]

i hope he means it

[Big Ben]

Think about this for a moment, kids.

This is another desperate attempt for a guy who knows that he´s upt to his elbows in ****e to beg for an opening.

A guy who knows that he´s shut the door for 1 of best teams and the boss of another hates him.

Am I to race in P8 for the rest of my career?

Think about this for a moment, kids.

PS. Sorry Bagwan, this is not against you. I just cannot buy the idea of Fernando playing the press.

It's not that I don't trust you know all about FA's feelings but I know that these are not facts. You are a bit confused and you seem to have a problem with making the difference between what I would call in your case wishful thinking and the things you actually know.

How did you come up with the conclusion that Renault will only be able to fight for p8 from now on?

[Valve Bounce]

i hope he means it


Me too.

[Ranger]

and when was the last time Ferrari had two WDC's racing for them? :p
1990... but using that example, using 2 WDC's wasn't as detrimental as the car's lack of pace.


Think about this for a moment, kids.

This is another desperate attempt for a guy who knows that he´s upt to his elbows in ****e to beg for an opening.

A guy who knows that he´s shut the door for 1 of best teams and the boss of another hates him.

Am I to race in P8 for the rest of my career?

Think about this for a moment, kids.

PS. Sorry Bagwan, this is not against you. I just cannot buy the idea of Fernando playing the press.
Your logic seems a bit convoluted.

The McLaren door is shut. That is pretty certain.

But where is the link saying another team boss hates him? LdM's comments make sense. You put two world champions next to each other in the same team and you get trouble and risk diddling yourself out of championships. Any case over the past 25 years proves this. Barely hate, sheesh.

Regardless, Fernando Alonso is 26. You can bet your pennies that he'll have quite a few more years and victories ahead of him.

[ArrowsFA1]

1990... but using that example, using 2 WDC's wasn't as detrimental as the car's lack of pace.
Mansell wasn't a WDC in 1990 ;)

Regardless, Fernando Alonso is 26. You can bet your pennies that he'll have quite a few more years and victories ahead of him.
You'd think so, but if the McLaren and Ferrari doors are shut to him then where does he go? As a 2xWDC he has more than proved his ability, but 2007 has damaged his career prospects. His best hope may be that Renault get things right.

[Ranger]

Mansell wasn't a WDC in 1990 ;)
Yep, but its a similar situation because he was never going to play the #2 game ( and didn't... he just got beaten :p : )


You'd think so, but if the McLaren and Ferrari doors are shut to him then where does he go? As a 2xWDC he has more than proved his ability, but 2007 has damaged his career prospects. His best hope may be that Renault get things right.
For the moment, yes. However...

The McLaren door is shut. The Ferrari door was always shut for 2009 anyway. The earliest he would be able to get into Ferrari is in 2010, and even if that was the case, he would be paired against Massa and not Raikkonen**.

Considering LdM only said that a Raikkonen-Alonso partnership would be damaging then there's nothing to say he won't join the reds alongside Massa, as they need a #1 alongside Massa, who will keep him honest.



**If Raikkonen retires when his contract expires at the end of 2009... who knows?

[Dave B]

Ferrari's setup is perfect at the moment. Kimi's a proven top driver who has demonstrated that he's capable of keeping his legendardy cool to win a WDC; Massa's scarily quick on his day and a genuine race-winner in his own right.

Why risk unsettling the harmony by introducing a driver with a history of throwing his toys out of the pram when he perceives he's not getting equal treatment?

[MAX_THRUST]

Finnaly Alonso realises what a mistake he made last year....If you owned a team that was looking good for the championship with last years world championship driver in your team, why would you jepodise it for some guy who thinks he's the best and wants to be number one in the team.

You need to earn that right, and by not leading Hamilton last year began to loose his credibillity. Its not that I don't like him, but he has shot himself in both feet, and then looked down the barrel to check if the gun was still working.....He could be at Renault for a long time and if his team mate does better than him, well, he can always join Fisi at Force India.

[samuratt]

Finnaly Alonso realises what a mistake he made last year....If you owned a team that was looking good for the championship with last years world championship driver in your team, why would you jepodise it for some guy who thinks he's the best and wants to be number one in the team.

You need to earn that right, and by not leading Hamilton last year began to loose his credibillity. Its not that I don't like him, but he has shot himself in both feet, and then looked down the barrel to check if the gun was still working.....He could be at Renault for a long time and if his team mate does better than him, well, he can always join Fisi at Force India.


It is not that you like him either...

[Knock-on]

LdM is spot on. Ferrari have a very good 1, 2 arrangement that works so why get someone disruptive in the team.

Also, if Ferrari have any of their "innovative" devices on board, they don't want Alonso trying to blackmail them to have prefferential treatment.

Mind you, rather than going to the FIA as Ron did, Alonso might just wake up next to Shergars decapitated head :laugh:

[MAX_THRUST]

2006 Alonso was with out doubt my favourite driver. He was fast, fun and seemed like a nice guy.....

Last year it became hard to like him, because of the way the media portrayed him. however the incident in Hungary made him look silly. Spoilt. Child like. In all honesty Lewis didn't do himself to many favours that same weekend.

When your 26 you think you know everything, as you do when your 17 and as you do when your 36. Problem is, its the old folk, that generally knows best. I'm not that old yet, but I'm old enough to know when you have damaged your own reputation, clearly Luco knows Alonso has done that as well. Its nothing to do with being a fan. I'm generally very unbiased.

Hence I get annoyed when drivers are slated for really minor things, as Lewis gets slated regulary. I like to think its because he is talented and fast and succesful, but reallity is he's, and I won't say it because I will get called a racist the same way Danica Patrik gets slated because she is a woman.

We are all entitled to our opinions, but sometimes we can all see through them to waht really bugs us.

Now if Alonso was French, then I'd hate him..........please note that is a joke!!!!! I don't need another warning.

[MAX_THRUST]

Should anyone missinterpret my comments, I feel sometimes people do not state the real reason why they don't like a driver, in Lewis case there is clearly much ignorance and I feel some posters on this forum just spout hatred whilst avoiding certain terms as not to cause insult.

Back to Alonso as this thread is about him.....

He hsould have stayed at McClaren, but Kovalinen will do just fine there, Alonso messed up and he is starting to realise.

[aryan]

Alonso may realise that after 2007, it might be very hard for him to get a drive in a top car anytime soon.

The way he conducted his affair at McLaren was very unprofessional, and it will immensely hurt his career.

[aryan]

How many times has Alonso basically given an ultimatum to his team over the past couple of weeks?

Surely, this is not helping his team or himself... issuing such public statements.

[truefan72]

For starters you can't even quote a link without turning it into a lie! :down:
This is what LDM said in your artical;
"To line up a Raikkonen-Alonso double act would mean wanting to damage yourself"
I don't hold Luca D's opinions about F1 in very high regaurd.

This is the most "damaging" concept in the whole article from a Ferrari fans perspective,

"Di Montezemolo added that he intends to spend more time with Ferrari after leaving his role at the head of Italy's industry body"

God forbid! He is a talking head, and I hope he keeps his hands out of F1!
Cheers

Where exactly did I turn it into a lie?
do you mean Eurosport?
or do you mean LDM?

The first part was a direct quote from the sub headline, the rest of it was an accurate quote of his exact words?

I'm not sure what the issue is here?
But insinuating that I turned the story into a lie is about as foolish as assuming that LDM has no influence in the decision making process at Ferrari, since he basically signs the checks

[aryan]

sorry posted in the wrong thread.

[Dzeidzei]

It's not that I don't trust you know all about FA's feelings but I know that these are not facts. You are a bit confused and you seem to have a problem with making the difference between what I would call in your case wishful thinking and the things you actually know.

How did you come up with the conclusion that Renault will only be able to fight for p8 from now on?

Maybe I was a bit unclear. Didnt mean to say these are facts. Only wanted to point out that this reasoning of "Fernando playing the press" is just as probable as the one I described.

Its not wishful thinking. I actually rate FA pretty high up the list but I also wonder how he must be feeling now. With McL and Ferrari not as options. Where will I go now, he must think.

And Renault being stuck at P8 is not a conclusion, it was speculation just as the rest of the post. I could have said P5.

Sorry for being so cryptic. It was not my intention. So just to make clear: I dont think FA is able to play with the press like was said here. And Im sure he is a bit unsure of his future.

[Bagwan]

Maybe I was a bit unclear. Didnt mean to say these are facts. Only wanted to point out that this reasoning of "Fernando playing the press" is just as probable as the one I described.

Its not wishful thinking. I actually rate FA pretty high up the list but I also wonder how he must be feeling now. With McL and Ferrari not as options. Where will I go now, he must think.

And Renault being stuck at P8 is not a conclusion, it was speculation just as the rest of the post. I could have said P5.

Sorry for being so cryptic. It was not my intention. So just to make clear: I dont think FA is able to play with the press like was said here. And Im sure he is a bit unsure of his future.

Do you think Flavio has the smarts to think this up ?
He's got to be a part of this .
When Massa was in hot water over poor results in the first two races , speculation rang out about who would replace him . Fernando , with contract in hand , chimed in with "Pick me " .
And now , with little prompting he rings out the names of a few teams he is directly involved with on track , and he's got them all scrambling to settle thier nests .

This has crafty Flav all over it . Maybe it wasn't Fernando's idea , but it sure worked on you .

[Dzeidzei]

This has crafty Flav all over it . Maybe it wasn't Fernando's idea , but it sure worked on you .

Nopes it didnt and for one reason only: Im not in the game. I still think FA (or Flavio) is not able to work the press in their favor. If these mind games make a difference whoever lets themselves be affected doesnt belong in the fight to begin with.

I still think its more about how FA feels than what he and/or Briatore think they will accomplish by it.

[Tazio]

The first part was a direct quote from the sub headline, the rest of it was an accurate quote of his exact words?
Yes but you atrbuterd The words to luca

Originally Posted by truefan72 showthread.php?p=464589 - post464589showthread.php?p=464589 - post464589
From Eurosport: [Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo has said he does not want to sign double world champion Fernando Alonso to the Formula One team, believing such a move would be "damaging".]

Luca never said : "to sign double world champion Fernando Alonso to the Formula One team, believing such a move would be "damaging". "

He never used the word damaging which you have in quotation marks!

That makes you as bad as the Editor that tried to spice the article up, to make his comments something they were not! Thus lending the whole shooting match to be taken out of context!


A blatant misrepresention of what Luca said.
Bro!

[truefan72]

Tazio,

did you read the article that I posted?

The Quotation marks are from the subheadline of the Eurosport article which I emplore you to read for yourself, which apparently you didn't

here it is one more time: http://eurosport.yahoo.com/23042008/58/ferrari-alonso-damaging.html

hopefully that makes it perfectly clear to you who and what was said.

In the third paragraph it states ["To line up a Raikkonen-Alonso double act would mean wanting to damage yourself," he told La Gazzetta dello Sport.}
Which is indeed what Luca said.

So perhaps you should read the article before you accuse me of editing it or spicing it up. LOL, then we can have a serious discussion.

and not to get to technical, but I never quoted anything else than the subheadline, so it is obviously an issue you have with eurosport, which they themsleves did get it correct as to what Luca did say. I didn't edit antything and simply reported what they said.

If you have a problem with what Eurosport said,then I suggest you write to thenm and argue the finer points of semantics with them. The irony is that you yourself have falsy attributed quotes and statements to me while arguing that the seem misdeed was done to poor old luca.

please make sure you know what you are arguing about first before accusing people.

;)

[Tazio]

Tazio,

did you read the article that I posted?

The Quotation marks are from the subheadline of the Eurosport article which I emplore you to read for yourself, which apparently you didn't

here it is one more time: http://eurosport.yahoo.com/23042008/58/ferrari-alonso-damaging.html

hopefully that makes it perfectly clear to you who and what was said.

In the third paragraph it states ["To line up a Raikkonen-Alonso double act would mean wanting to damage yourself," he told La Gazzetta dello Sport.}
Which is indeed what Luca said.

So perhaps you should read the article before you accuse me of editing it or spicing it up. LOL, then we can have a serious discussion.

and not to get to technical, but I never quoted anything else than the subheadline, so I am confused as to where I said that following line you quoted attributing it to me somehow.
- Luca never said : "to sign double world champion Fernando Alonso to the Formula One team, believing such a move would be "damaging". -

Becuase it is obviously not in the article and I didn't quote it or mention it.

please make sure you know what you are arguing about first before accusing people.

;) I read it the first time Bro I still think your first post of the thread was misleading! Any idiot can make up a headline! It's not what he said!
http://www.feedmef1.com/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=9882
Another Ferrari Man Kissing Mosley's Ring


More words of profundity by LdM,
In this quote he is referring to Max, while using the term "character"
"Should he withdraw from the FIA, the federation would need a successor with the same experience, competence, character and balance," he added
Later Dude

[truefan72]

actually, you didn't

because the first lines you would read in the bloody article are

"Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo has said he does not want to sign double world champion Fernando Alonso to the Formula One team, believing such a move would be "damaging".

which appear right below the title and right after the date of the article

I would suggest that any idiot would be able to read that line and figure out that Eurosport and not I are the ones that wrote that.
So there is nothing misleading about what I wrote.

As I mentioned, take your issue to Eurosport, they have a fine "remarks and suggestions" form you can fill out ( found here: http://help.yahoo.com/l/uk/yahoo/sport/feedback.html?from_url= ) and convey the message you are so poorly trying to attribute to me.
and then go back and check the third paragraph of the article then please try and explain to me what exactly he said.
your issue of semantics is one for Eurosport not me. It's astonishing how you can be so off on this matter. Just acknowledge your error and move on instead of introducing a completly non relevant quote about Max Mosley into this particular thread and the subject of LdM's comments about Alonso vis-a-vis Ferrari.

laughable

[Tazio]

actually, you didn't

because the first lines you would read in the bloody article are

"Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo has said he does not want to sign double world champion Fernando Alonso to the Formula One team, believing such a move would be "damaging".

which appear right below the title and right after the date of the article

I would suggest that any idiot would be able to read that line and figure out that Eurosport and not I are the ones that wrote that.
So there is nothing misleading about what I wrote.

As I mentioned, take your issue to Eurosport, they have a fine "remarks and suggestions" form you can fill out ( found here: http://help.yahoo.com/l/uk/yahoo/sport/feedback.html?from_url= ) and convey the message you are so poorly trying to attribute to me.
and then go back and check the third paragraph of the article then please try and explain to me what exactly he said.
your issue of semantics is one for Eurosport not me. It's astonishing how you can be so off on this matter. Just acknowledge your error and move on instead of introducing a completly non relevant quote about Max Mosley into this particular thread and the subject of LdM's comments about Alonso vis-a-vis Ferrari.

laughableI'm sorry what I should have wrote was any idiot can write a Bi line.
I don't like your presentation. I'm sticking to my guns! I have an issue with the article, and you, because you represented it in the same maner it was meant to misrepresent the truth. Just a little thing. Maybe liar was the wrong word to use? "gullible" I think fits better, or possibly "manipulative" End of conversation, Dude! Rant on!

[Kevincal]

truefan72. Why don't you just rename yourself to "AlonsoHater#1"...? ;)

[truefan72]

truefan72. Why don't you just rename yourself to "AlonsoHater#1"...? ;)

doesn't even merit a respectable response... so, I'm not even going to bother

LOL

[truefan72]

I'm sorry what I should have wrote was any idiot can write a Bi line.
I don't like your presentation. I'm sticking to my guns! I have an issue with the article, and you, because you represented it in the same maner it was meant to misrepresent the truth. Just a little thing. Maybe liar was the wrong word to use? "gullible" I think fits better, or possibly "manipulative" End of conversation, Dude! Rant on!

lashing out at the messenger is as fruitful a pursuit as beleiving in fairies.

We've gotten very useful responses on this subject matter as well as agreeing with a host of people including some that I tend not to align myself with. But focusing your attention on a triviality which of course doesn't have anything to do with the substance of the article, then furthermore, misrepresenting my quotes ( or lack there of) then callimg me a liar about a matter that you clearly hadn't even read, then stating that I'm idot, then adding that I some how manipulated the words to say something else than they did in the article, then continueing to hurl insults when CLEARLY you erred in your assesment, ( convenienlty ingoring the actual facts as stated by LdM) then finally shrilling off with a hissy fit , cause you don't like the article ( and by default anyone who brings it up) is just childish.

I expected more from you Tazio,

I suspect your Support for Alonso or hatred of Hamilton, simply clouds your judgment on anything in support or opposition to him. It's ironic, that nowhere in this thread have I laid a personal attack on Alonso, or made a sarcastic, or bent comment about him, whereas others have, and you choose to focus on me bringing up the article in the first place, although it's been reported in thousands of other places and media?

If you feel so strongly about the "presentation" of a 6 paragrpah article that of which 90% are referenced to quotes by LdM then you have a serious problem with ferrari, LdM, and anybody else out there not singing the praises of Alonso.

I realize at the end of the day that your problem really isn't with me, I just provide you with an opportunitsitc target to vent your frustrations since you feel you can't have the same impact with LdM, Ferrari. eurosport, etc.

There is an old phrase that people use in these circumstances.

"when you are in a hole, stop digging!"

all the best

[leopard]

truefan72. Why don't you just rename yourself to "AlonsoHater#1"...? ;)

Probably it will give admin more work to rename it, this seems to be easier truefancy72 ;)

[truefan72]

oh btw,

I realize that this seems to be spiraling out of control for apparantly a non issue,

so if you want to make comments about the article and what LdM said, I welcome them, of you want to go on attacking my character then I'll simply add you to the ignore list and we can both go about our business without distracting everyone else

fair enough?

[leopard]

Who else already in the list? :)

[truefan72]

certainly not you my friend. We may disagree, but you do so valiantly.

plus I enjoy your comments and perspective.

I simply don't want to waste my time on baseless triviality. too much to talk about around here.

but if you insist on changing around my name, I can take that dig if it's done in jest, but let's not get carried away shall we.

[Tazio]

lashing out at the messenger is as fruitful a pursuit as beleiving in fairies.

We've gotten very useful responses on this subject matter as well as agreeing with a host of people including some that I tend not to align myself with. But focusing your attention on a triviality which of course doesn't have anything to do with the substance of the article, then furthermore, misrepresenting my quotes ( or lack there of) then callimg me a liar about a matter that you clearly hadn't even read, then stating that I'm idot, then adding that I some how manipulated the words to say something else than they did in the article, then continueing to hurl insults when CLEARLY you erred in your assesment, ( convenienlty ingoring the actual facts as stated by LdM) then finally shrilling off with a hissy fit , cause you don't like the article ( and by default anyone who brings it up) is just childish.

I expected more from you Tazio,

I suspect your Support for Alonso or hatred of Hamilton, simply clouds your judgment on anything in support or opposition to him. It's ironic, that nowhere in this thread have I laid a personal attack on Alonso, or made a sarcastic, or bent comment about him, whereas others have, and you choose to focus on me bringing up the article in the first place, although it's been reported in thousands of other places and media?

If you feel so strongly about the "presentation" of a 6 paragrpah article that of which 90% are referenced to quotes by LdM then you have a serious problem with ferrari, LdM, and anybody else out there not singing the praises of Alonso.

I realize at the end of the day that your problem really isn't with me, I just provide you with an opportunitsitc target to vent your frustrations since you feel you can't have the same impact with LdM, Ferrari. eurosport, etc.

There is an old phrase that people use in these circumstances.

"when you are in a hole, stop digging!"

all the bestOK I'm going to spell it out for you! But first I never implied or said that your an idiot! Don't take this personally. The only parts of that article that is substantive is:

"To line up a Raikkonen-Alonso double act would mean wanting to damage yourself,"

I'm suggesting that LdM Just doesn't know how to handle a situation that would bring this man to his team. By him saying it will damage the team I disagree! On top of that (being the biggest Ferrari fan on this forum) I don't respect him when it comes to F1. He's basically a pencilneck and a pr man.
A better man would not rule out the ability of this marrige because there are too many unknown, and soon to be disclosed factors! Capice!

The other matter of substance is:

Di Montezemolo added that he intends to spend more time with Ferrari after leaving his role at the head of Italy's industry body!

I really hope he means road cars. Because IMHO he will damage the F1 operation!

[janneppi]

Tazio and truefan72, take your discussion to pm's. It's irrelevant to the general discussion. :)

[samuratt]

Alonso may realise that after 2007, it might be very hard for him to get a drive in a top car anytime soon.

The way he conducted his affair at McLaren was very unprofessional, and it will immensely hurt his career.

The way McLaren conducted themselves last seasson was very unproffesional too, and still drivers want to go there...

They were punished for spying, cheeting and lying. What driver wuold like to go there? ;)

[Dave B]

The way McLaren conducted themselves last seasson was very unproffesional too, and still drivers want to go there...

They were punished for spying, cheeting and lying. What driver wuold like to go there? ;)
Given that they're historically one of the top teams with little sign of that changing, I'd say plenty of drivers!

[samuratt]

Given that they're historically one of the top teams with little sign of that changing, I'd say plenty of drivers!


mmm if by little signs you mean almost 10 years without wining a title then I think you are right! ;)

Yeah Mclaren have a nice history as does Williams, and look were they go when BMW left them. Expect the same with MclAren if Mercedes leaves. And after last year mismanagement I am sure at Mercedes somebody must be thinking about it! Nobody wants to be labelled as a cheater, liar, etc... and moreover: nobody wants to loose! And lately Mclaren are just loosers, always close but never on top! :D

[jens]

If McLaren is a loser, then I wonder which word should we use in describing the majority of F1 teams.

[Dave B]

I've never claimed that they were in any way the "best" team, I merely point out that they're one of the few with a genuinely long and successful history in F1 (8 WCCs, for goodness sake!), and have good finances along with a long-term partnership with a top-flight engine supplier which is likely to see them constantly at or near the front of the field in times to come.

Compared to the numerous teams who have come and gone over the decades, along with some of the recent entrants who have spent billions yet barely troubled the scorers <coughtoyotacough>, I'd say McLaren are doing pretty nicely thank you.

[truefan72]

Tazio and truefan72, take your discussion to pm's. It's irrelevant to the general discussion. :)

thanks for intervening and clearing up the thread.

And the point about the irrelevance is what I was trying to make and why I was miffed at the postings.

Good, back to the topic

[ShiftingGears]

What driver wuold like to go there? ;)

I'd have to say Ant Davidson. I hear he thinks McLaren have delicious apple juice.

[Tazio]

I prefer everyone to be happy

Alonso happy to enjoy racing again
http://www.f1technical.net/news/8963
Although he was forced to retire at his home Grand Prix, Fernando Alonso was not too disappointed as he saw his team making a huge leap forward this weekend. The Spaniard was second in the qualifying session and ran competitively at the front during the race before his engine blew.

Fernando Alonso said: "I'm happy we're competitive and I can enjoy racing again. We are improving step by step and we can get there race by race as we make improvements.

"I'm very happy because Massa stopped only two laps later than me so the qualifying was better than we thought and we were ahead of the BMW's," he added.

[F1boat]

2006 Alonso was with out doubt my favourite driver. He was fast, fun and seemed like a nice guy.....

Last year it became hard to like him, because of the way the media portrayed him. however the incident in Hungary made him look silly. Spoilt. Child like. In all honesty Lewis didn't do himself to many favours that same weekend.

When your 26 you think you know everything, as you do when your 17 and as you do when your 36. Problem is, its the old folk, that generally knows best. I'm not that old yet, but I'm old enough to know when you have damaged your own reputation, clearly Luco knows Alonso has done that as well. Its nothing to do with being a fan. I'm generally very unbiased.

Hence I get annoyed when drivers are slated for really minor things, as Lewis gets slated regulary. I like to think its because he is talented and fast and succesful, but reallity is he's, and I won't say it because I will get called a racist the same way Danica Patrik gets slated because she is a woman.

We are all entitled to our opinions, but sometimes we can all see through them to waht really bugs us.

Now if Alonso was French, then I'd hate him..........please note that is a joke!!!!! I don't need another warning.

Max, your post is very interesting. I think that media is to blame about the hate to Lewis and Danica. because they are interested to see a driver from African descent and a female driver, they surround them with too much attention and hype them way too much, because skin color or gender don't make you great immediately. I know that it is business but it is frustrating, for example when Danica had her quarrel with Dan Wheldon everybody was expecting to support her, because she is a girl. And this was frustrating to me, because I prefer Wheldon as a driver and I think that it was unacceptable for her to push him.
And in F-1, the same - some media, mainly British, of course, expected that all people should support Lewis against Kimi and Fernando, because he is a rookie, a British and of African descent. While I prefer the Ferrari drivers and Alonso and I am sure that many people do.
So it is wrong to say that all people hate Danica and Lewis because they are racist or sexist, it is due that their skin color or gender is portrayed as an advantage - which is, in reality, the racist/sexist thing.

[F1boat]

Back on topic, I hope that Fernando Alonso will be happier and happier now in Renault and will soon challenge the Ferrari drivers for victories!

[veeten]

Renault needs to do a better job than they did this weekend, if Alonso wants to be there at the end to contest. Too bad that they found the upper limits of that engine, after all they did with it to get to the front of the grid.

Piquet going out the way he did, and looking the total rookie during the early laps didn't inspire much confidence for Fred, I'd bet. :\

[Garry Walker]

I'd have to say Ant Davidson.

Thankfully McLaren aren`t so stupid.

[jens]

I guess that with Renault's improvements the rumours about Alonso joining Ferrari will be silenced for some time. Alonso has no reason to leave a competitive Renault - the main question has been whether it would be competitive...

[F1boat]

I think that while Kimi is racing at Ferrari, Alonso won't be going there, but it will be good if the Renault improves enough to allow him to compete with the red cars.

[Garry Walker]

You know, one thing I have to say is that Piquet is looking almost as fast as Alonso now. Sure, he still makes mistakes, but on pure pace he is already as fast as Alonso.

[Knock-on]

You know, one thing I have to say is that Piquet is looking almost as fast as Alonso now. Sure, he still makes mistakes, but on pure pace he is already as fast as Alonso.

What will happen if he gets beaten by a Rookie I wonder lol

How many skeletons has Flav in the engineering department :laugh:

[Bagwan]

You know, one thing I have to say is that Piquet is looking almost as fast as Alonso now. Sure, he still makes mistakes, but on pure pace he is already as fast as Alonso.

Should I dare suggest that Piquet is using Alonso's set-up talent ?

Or , could it be that the lad with the famous name has been told he can settle down as he is not expected to either be his father , or as good as a WDC first time out ?

I'm still quite unconvinced that Alonso has been unhappy at Renault in the first place .
They showed huge improvement in Barcelona , and he would have known that was coming , even if he didn't know if the others had made the same kind of progress .
I read somewhere they had 19 separate elements applied to the car and working for Spain .

Funny , or sly , that he should be complaining so hard not so long ago ?

[Garry Walker]

Should I dare suggest that Piquet is using Alonso's set-up talent ?
Apparently it is the opposite. Piquet, much like his dad, is apparently really good with setups and Alonso has copied his setup on more than one occasion.

[Garry Walker]

What will happen if he gets beaten by a Rookie I wonder lol

He will once again throw a tantrum, complain and his fans will whine about bad treatment Renault is giving him.

[Tazio]

He will once again throw a tantrum, complain and his fans will whine about bad treatment Renault is giving him.

The reality is NP has way under-performed! Renault are being very patient with him,
as the car is only now becoming competitive! Fred has wrung that car out for every point it is worth.
Wish as you will! Who Knows NP may become a great driver. I wish him the best. Rookie seasons can be really tough!
There is a difference between honesty, consrtuctive criticism, and whining!



May 1 (GMM) Renault sporting director Steve Nielsen is hopeful that team rookie Nelson Piquet
can put his troubles behind him when the formula one season resumes in Turkey next weekend
http://www.f1complete.com/content/view/8533/900/
"I would say it was Bourdais' fault but the problem is that Nelson shouldn't have put himself so far back," Nielsen said.

P.S. I'm not a fan of his! I just rcognize him for his acomplishments and talent!

[ShiftingGears]

You know, one thing I have to say is that Piquet is looking almost as fast as Alonso now. Sure, he still makes mistakes, but on pure pace he is already as fast as Alonso.

I don't think he is as fast. But he has improved, much like Kovalainen last year.

[Roamy]

I don't think Garry holds Fred in the circle of high admiration. One thing about Flav he won't hinder Piquet's quest to knock Fred off the throne - it will just be handled much more professionally than stupid ass Dennis did.

[Tazio]

I don't think Garry holds Fred in the circle of high admiration. One thing about Flav he won't hinder Piquet's quest to knock Fred off the throne - it will just be handled much more professionally than stupid ass Dennis did.
:up:

[F1boat]

IMO Piquet is OK but to suggest that he is near Alonso is, to me, weird. He was slower than him even in his best laps in the qualifying in Spain and in the other races Alonso was much better than him.
And I think that Flavio will be right to treat Alonso as a champion and Nelson as a rookie. The other thing can cost a championship, as we saw.

[Tazio]

:up:

I do think that NP will round into a very worthy F1 driver. He will undoubtedly finish ahead of Fred at in a race or two this season. I don't know if that is enough to warm the cockles of the heart of all the Alonzo haters

[truefan72]

I don't think Garry holds Fred in the circle of high admiration. One thing about Flav he won't hinder Piquet's quest to knock Fred off the throne - it will just be handled much more professionally than stupid ass Dennis did.

The situations are much different as arethe drivers and the WDC standings

Last year, by Monaco, it was quite evident that LH was a title contender in a title winning car. He was already leading the WDC over Aonso by 6 points. RD still insisted on team orders in that race to apease Alonso. By the time they got to Canada, Lewis was still leading the WDC and RD had no choice but to give them equal #1 status (despite his claims of otherwhise before hand)

Lewis promptly went on to beat FA and win the next 2 races stretching his lead in the WDC to 14 points.

I'm not sure Flav is in a similar situation. The renaults are not competing for the WDC or WCC titles and Alonso has already indicated that he might leave for brighter prospects.

I think RD managed the situation very professional last year. Clearly giving much leaway to FA and even allowing him to keep his setups to himself. Dealing with a driver who refused to communicate with him and one who wouldn't yield to fair and square competition. If Alonso just manged to keep his cool and embrace the situation, he and LH would have ran away with the WDC lead and have things come down to on track performance. Where I still think he was slightly better than LH. As things stood, LH probably should have won the title last year if not of his gaff in Brazil, or his pit-entry fiasco in China. It was indeed Alonso who didn't handle it professionaly IMO. Great driver, but extremely sensitive and tempestious personality.

It certainly provided for the most gripping drama in F1 for a long while.

[Garry Walker]

IMO Piquet is OK but to suggest that he is near Alonso is, to me, weird. He was slower than him even in his best laps in the qualifying in Spain and in the other races Alonso was much better than him.

NP was as fast as Alonso at Spain. His pace even got so much to Alonsos head that Alonso requested a car change. The difference in their Q3 times was only due to massive fuel difference, not true pace difference.

[truefan72]

IMO Piquet is OK but to suggest that he is near Alonso is, to me, weird. He was slower than him even in his best laps in the qualifying in Spain and in the other races Alonso was much better than him.
And I think that Flavio will be right to treat Alonso as a champion and Nelson as a rookie. The other thing can cost a championship, as we saw.

The WDC championship was lost by a bad pit entrance in chnina and a gaff by LH in Brazil. The WCC was lost for a wholeother reason. Anyway.....

NPJr is still far from being level with Alonso. He is even behind where HK was with Renault last year. I think he has talent but he needs to show it. His qualifyinng has been terrible and his races haven't gone well at all.

I think the renault is showing some improvement, but now NPJr needs to show some as well.

[Tazio]

It certainly provided for the most gripping drama in F1 for a long while.And in regaurd to the 2007 WDC it worked out just fine!

[Garry Walker]

The WDC championship was lost by a bad pit entrance in chnina and a gaff by LH in Brazil. The WCC was lost for a wholeother reason. Anyway.....

NPJr is still far from being level with Alonso. He is even behind where HK was with Renault last year. I think he has talent but he needs to show it. His qualifyinng has been terrible and his races haven't gone well at all.

I think the renault is showing some improvement, but now NPJr needs to show some as well.
Again, I repeat. Piquets performance in spain in qualifying was on the same level as Alonsos, fuel adjusted.
His races leave to be desired, but maybe if Renault in future give him an equal chance compared to Alonso and stop treating Alonso as nr.1, he can manage to beat him.

[truefan72]

NP was as fast as Alonso at Spain. His pace even got so much to Alonsos head that Alonso requested a car change. The difference in their Q3 times was only due to massive fuel difference, not true pace difference.


I thinkghe did make strides in Barcelona, but the true test is doing so lap after lap in race conditions. Tought to make that analysis in Spain, but before that, Piquet hasn't shown much come Sunday.

I didn't know Alonso requested a car change though, interesting.

[truefan72]

Again, I repeat. Piquets performance in spain in qualifying was on the same level as Alonsos, fuel adjusted.
His races leave to be desired, but maybe if Renault in future give him an equal chance compared to Alonso and stop treating Alonso as nr.1, he can manage to beat him.

fair enough, let's hope they are getting equal machinery

[Garry Walker]

I thinkghe did make strides in Barcelona, but the true test is doing so lap after lap in race conditions. Tought to make that analysis in Spain, but before that, Piquet hasn't shown much come Sunday.

I didn't know Alonso requested a car change though, interesting.

I will quote Automoto365.com



Alonso made it into the first row with fuel for only 15 laps in the car. It became 16 due to the early safety car.

Nelsinho would have run for a further seven laps, which means that his qualifying time was fuel-corrected within a tenth of Fernando’s. As it was the same picture all weekend, it shows the progress Nelson made and now all the cvircuits he knows quite well are coming up. On Friday he was posting such fast lap times that Alonso asked to change his chassis overnight. He reported handling problems, but it more of a psychological reason rather than a technical one for this change.

[F1boat]

NP was as fast as Alonso at Spain.

I don't think so. He was beaten in all three segments of qualifying and the fuel difference is only in Q3. In the race he was hillarious.

[F1boat]

The WDC championship was lost by a bad pit entrance in chnina and a gaff by LH in Brazil.
It was lost by one point by both ddrivers. You can do the math who would have one with one preferred driver and logic says that this should be the champion.
Still, this topic is obviously controversial and will be way O/T, so I am sorry to bring it back.

[Garry Walker]

I don't think so. He was beaten in all three segments of qualifying and the fuel difference is only in Q3. In the race he was hillarious.

in Q1 NP was 0,062 seconds behind, in Q2 he was 0,090 seconds behind. These are very small amounts.
I posted a quote from Automoto365 above.

[F1boat]

They were small amounts, but still he was behind them. He was close , but this was the track on which he has best knowledge. Lets wait a few more races because judge whether Nelson is as fast as Fred or not.

[Garry Walker]

They were small amounts, but still he was behind them. He was close , but this was the track on which he has best knowledge. Lets wait a few more races because judge whether Nelson is as fast as Fred or not.

Piquet has done 3 races in his career so far and is clearly a nr.2 at Renault.

To expect him to be as fast as Alonso there is not a realistic goal, Flavio will make sure of that.

[F1boat]

And in my opinion this will be a right thing to do. But I don't think that the gap in Melbourne is because of status. BTW, I was the one who defended Nelson when all were saying that he is crap, but now I also am cautious when he immediately is compared to Fred.

[Tazio]

For NP, and Fred to each have good seasons, is not a mutually exclusive proposition. I have not heard a peep out of their camp implying there is any discord. I hope NP does challenge Fred for domination of that team. It will suggest to me that they have a couple pretty d@mn good pilots! Talk to me after Fred starts whining. Until then I suggest the haters keep their pie holes shut, as there has been zero dissonance on that team!

[jens]

Piquet Jr proved to be a qualifying ace already in GP2, so no surprise he can create some headaches to Alonso over one lap. Another question is, how can he match FA over a race distance. So far he has been struggling to do that.

[truefan72]

Piquet Jr proved to be a qualifying ace already in GP2, so no surprise he can create some headaches to Alonso over one lap. Another question is, how can he match FA over a race distance. So far he has been struggling to do that.


That has been Alonso's strength as well as that of the top 4 drivers, pulling out fast times, lap after lap is what seprates the top4 drivers ( KR, LH, Massa and Alonso) from the others. Even Kubica has shown that he struggles at times keeping pace with the KR, FM and LH. I know that the cars are better, but the BMW isn't too far back at all IMO. Heikke doesn't rank up there either. I like him, but he also tends to fall back slightly over the race distance. Alonso showed that with the right set up and lower fuel levels, he can push the Renault to match the Ferrari's and McClaren's in relative pace.

Piquet hasn't shown that at all, but tobe fair hasn't had the opportunity to run in clear tracks or show his true stuff. But given his small windows of opportunities, he hans't impressed me so far. I think he has talent and pace, but I'm not sure he's got the race pace to match those guys.

Let's hope he get's there. For many drivers, the learning curve to driving an F1 car is much steeper than they thought. It is about confidence and pushing the car lap after lap as well as getting it right with a less forgiving instrument.