Ever considered becoming an organ donor?

[Zico]

My girlfriend has been encouraging me to become an organ donor like her, which has become quite a contentious subject between both of us.. (roll-eyes-smiley)

While Im 100% in favour of helping others after my death, I have one major problem.. I dont want my organs being donated to convicted murderers, paedos or rapists etc.

There must be many other potential donors with the same concerns as me yet I cant see the UK transplant organisation changing their policy from the following..

"No conditions can be attached in terms of potential recipients. The only restriction allowed is which organs or tissue are to be donated."

If they did Im pretty sure the numbers of donor card holders would rocket and be a great solution (Imo) to the current shortages that they aparently have. Would conditional organ donations go against the issue of human rights? As far as Im concerned, these people gave up their human rights when they commited the crimes they did..

How do you feel about this?

[rah]

I am happy to give mine unconditionally. If they can save anyone I am happy for them to be put to good use.

[Zico]

I am happy to give mine unconditionally. If they can save anyone I am happy for them to be put to good use.

I have a problem with the fact that my organs could prolong the life of someone who could harm others again..
The odds must be very slim but it concerns me enough to put me in a quandry about the decision.

[Drew]

How does that work, or how are you thinking of it to work?

Do we sign up and make a list of people who it can't go to? Let's say I sign up and then die in a terrific car accident. On my list I don't want paedos, murderers, rapists, thugs, blacks, gays, jews, foreigners and tory supporters to have my organs. Because every second counts they make and error and find out it was later given to a French man. Do they take it out or leave it in? Who's job is it to find out they are a paedo and to make sure they don't get the organ?

Quite frankly if you have too many problems with it, you shouldn't sign up.

[Rollo]

The big issue that I have with organ donation isn't so much the ethics at this moment in time, but in the future when life gets "difficult". It's not too hard to consider the possibility that involuntary organ donations might be made to richer clients and the paper work covered over.

Suppose you were complaining of appendicitis and Mr Branson was in the next room and needed a new kidney. Is it that much of a stretch to suggest that for a couple of million quid, the doctors would take yours without you knowing about it? You go home happy because your appendix is gone, but you can't exactly check that everything else is intact can you?

[janneppi]

I have a problem with the fact that my organs could prolong the life of someone who could harm others again..
The odds must be very slim but it concerns me enough to put me in a quandry about the decision.
There's a bigger chance of a organ goin to someone who hasn't been caught yet for some crime or might go to some little old lady who then might drive over someone in your family. ;)

[Zico]

How does that work, or how are you thinking of it to work?

Do we sign up and make a list of people who it can't go to? Let's say I sign up and then die in a terrific car accident. On my list I don't want paedos, murderers, rapists, thugs, blacks, gays, jews, foreigners and tory supporters to have my organs. Because every second counts they make and error and find out it was later given to a French man. Do they take it out or leave it in? Who's job is it to find out they are a paedo and to make sure they don't get the organ?

Quite frankly if you have too many problems with it, you shouldn't sign up.

Yep, Your right, a compatability database? Where would you draw the line?..creates more problems than it would solve, realised it was kinda silly after I posted it.. lol



The big issue that I have with organ donation isn't so much the ethics at this moment in time, but in the future when life gets "difficult". It's not too hard to consider the possibility that involuntary organ donations might be made to richer clients and the paper work covered over.

Suppose you were complaining of appendicitis and Mr Branson was in the next room and needed a new kidney. Is it that much of a stretch to suggest that for a couple of million quid, the doctors would take yours without you knowing about it? You go home happy because your appendix is gone, but you can't exactly check that everything else is intact can you?

State sponsered bodypart snatchers? Not sure thats entirely realistic at least for now, yet Interesting that the goverment were recently looking at making being a donor compulsory by default with an opt-out clause, basically the state owns your body unless you opt out? I can see where they are coming from with regards to boosting donor numbers but theres something quite wrong with that idea imo..


There's a bigger chance of a organ goin to someone who hasn't been caught yet for some crime or might go to some little old lady who then might drive over someone in your family. ;)

Yep, fair point.. :D


Its proving a far bigger decision to make than I thought.. think I'll follow Drews advice on this one.. Id be spinning in my grave If I wasnt happy with the recipients of my organs.. ;)

[Malbec]

Suppose you were complaining of appendicitis and Mr Branson was in the next room and needed a new kidney. Is it that much of a stretch to suggest that for a couple of million quid, the doctors would take yours without you knowing about it? You go home happy because your appendix is gone, but you can't exactly check that everything else is intact can you?

I've yet to see an intact kidney taken out of an appendicectomy wound.

Ultimately there is something stopping that from happening. A procedure done on your body without your informed consent is known as assault and is therefore a criminal offence. Doctors tend to be put off by the jail term that results with a successful prosecution. Removing a kidney without your knowledge is simply something that is so out of bounds that it isn't considered.

There was a case a few years back in Britain when a patients family consented to organs being removed from a brain dead patient but insisted that they go to someone white. There was some debate but it was eventually decided that despite the abhorrence of the demands the family's requests would be complied with, after all non-white patients would be bumped up the transplant waiting list if the organs were transplanted into a white person.

However as to the original poster's point, I'm afraid that if you have an objection to your organs going to someone who you don't like then really you should not be offering your organs for donation. Medicine treats all people equally regardless of their background, beliefs and also any deeds they may have committed. I can understand how some people are uncomfortable with that.

[Roamy]

oh hang on to your ass here. This will start a war. I think organ donors should be given substantial tax benefits to encourage all to be donors. With respect to war I think all organs should be donated. executed criminals here - the same. You come and live in the world but yet are willing to let someone die because you want your organs burned or buried. Well I say tax the hell out of that right -

[gadjo_dilo]

I think organ donors should be given substantial tax benefits to encourage all to be donors.

How? We may enjoy tax benefits only during our life and the organs may be donated only after death ( except one kidney ).

[jso1985]

The big issue that I have with organ donation isn't so much the ethics at this moment in time, but in the future when life gets "difficult". It's not too hard to consider the possibility that involuntary organ donations might be made to richer clients and the paper work covered over.

Suppose you were complaining of appendicitis and Mr Branson was in the next room and needed a new kidney. Is it that much of a stretch to suggest that for a couple of million quid, the doctors would take yours without you knowing about it? You go home happy because your appendix is gone, but you can't exactly check that everything else is intact can you?

If you're missing an organ that can be doned like a kidney or part of your liver, you will note something is missing, specially when you see a big scar on you, the doctors and nurses treats you like you need much more care than the required in an apendicectomy and other stuff, trust me you will note it!

Check out the story about Zach Dunlap of Texas who four months after he was declared brain dead following a vehicle accident responded to pressure applied under a fingernail when his family were there to say their last goodbyes and Doctors were to remove organs for transplanting. He has since recovered enough to return home. He said he remembers hearing the doctors pronounce him dead!

[Beth]

yeah that Zach guy was one lucky man! how crazy is that!!! To tell you the truth i'd never thought of "criminals" or "bad" people getting my organs when i signed my doner concent on my licence.. i can understand if people have religious beliefs and want to stay "in tact' when they die, however for me, where im going im not going to need them.. although i must admit i didnt tick the "skin" box.. i think that was more the thought of having my skin removed than anything.. maybe one day i'll tick that box... until then when i die they can take any insides they want...

[Camelopard]

.....however for me, where im going im not going to need them.. although i must admit i didnt tick the "skin" box.. i think that was more the thought of having my skin removed than anything.. maybe one day i'll tick that box... until then when i die they can take any insides they want...

For me it is the case of not removing my eyes, I know it sounds silly as I don't really believe in the after life and actually the only part of the eye that is used is the cornea and as I have had laser surery mine is scarred and not suitable.

I'm pretty sure my liver won't be off any use to anyone, but they can try!

[Camelopard]

Check out the story about Zach Dunlap of Texas who four months after he was declared brain dead following a vehicle accident responded to pressure applied under a fingernail when his family were there to say their last goodbyes and Doctors were to remove organs for transplanting. He has since recovered enough to return home. He said he remembers hearing the doctors pronounce him dead!

Hmmm interesting to say the least! I wonder if there is more to this than has been released.

My wife is a critical care nurse and is currently working as an 'Organ Donor Co-ordinator' at the moment so I'll have to quiz her when she gets home.

[leopard]

Donating our organ to those need the help is great, I just haven't yet considered helping others this way. Hoping that still capable of earning some money and put some 1-2% aside of it to donate orphan foundation. Not a large amount, but it might be useful for them.

[anthonyvop]

When you donate your organs:
The Doctors get paid.
The Hospital gets paid.
The Nurses get paid,
The Medical Supply Company gets Paid.
The Drug company gets paid.

The Organ donor's Family gets.....squat.

[Lousada]

You wouldn't GIVE your organs to sex offenders, but would you TAKE their organs if the situation arises? Interesting moral dilemma.

[Zico]

You wouldn't GIVE your organs to sex offenders, but would you TAKE their organs if the situation arises? Interesting moral dilemma.

Indeed..

I guess the old saying "Beggers cant be choosers" is very apt. ;)

[Camelopard]

When you donate your organs:
The Doctors get paid.
The Hospital gets paid.
The Nurses get paid,
The Medical Supply Company gets Paid.
The Drug company gets paid.

The Organ donor's Family gets.....squat.

Typical of a right winger, everthing thing comes down to MONEY :confused: .

[jso1985]

exactly!, I'd very p*ssed off on heaven(or hell) if I knew my family was trying to make money with my organs!

[Alexamateo]

Typical of a right winger, everthing thing comes down to MONEY :confused: .

Well, everyone is paid except the most important person in the equation. Do I own my own body or not? Couldn't one become an organ donor as a extra possible way to provide for one's family after one is gone? an extra insurance policy so to speak (if possible). If I can donate an extra kidney to a relative who might need one, why can't I go on the open market and sell one if I need the cash? Again, Do I own my own body or not?

[jso1985]

sure you do but the world doesn't need an international organ market were you can start cashing with your and someone else's life
plus all doctors, nurses, etc. get paid cause they are doing their job, is not like they win a bonus for getting donors

[Alexamateo]

plus all doctors, nurses, etc. get paid cause they are doing their job, is not like they win a bonus for getting donors

How do you know? There is pressure to find organ donor candidates, hence the government proposals to say that everyone is a potential organ donor unless they opt out.

It does raise some very interesting ethical questions. A doctor is sworn to do no harm and preserve life wherever possible, but what about cases where they may not be sure if the person will live, coupled with the potential to harvest organs?

My neighbor who lives literally across the street from me was in serious car accident 5 years ago that killed his wife. He struck his head and was in a coma for 12 days. Obviously, it was not clear the first couple of days that he would live. Look at the dilemma, his body was essentially unscathed, but he had a head injury and was in a coma, his wife was already dead, if he recovered he might have severe brain damage. How hard do doctors try to save his life in that situation if there is pressure from the government to make everyone organ donors?

In the end, my neighbor has made a complete recovery. The only permanent damage is that his eyes don't "work" together. (He sees equally well with either eye, but they don't move in exact conjunction. He wears glasses that essentially block one eye or the other to read, drive etc.) He has since re-married, and I know he is grateful to be alive. However one wonders what might have happened if society is demanding organ donation.

Myself, I am an organ donor, but the above situation does give me pause, and I may not renew when I renew my license. Who knows?, it is something to think about though.

[Camelopard]

Well, everyone is paid except the most important person in the equation. Do I own my own body or not? Couldn't one become an organ donor as a extra possible way to provide for one's family after one is gone? an extra insurance policy so to speak (if possible). If I can donate an extra kidney to a relative who might need one, why can't I go on the open market and sell one if I need the cash? Again, Do I own my own body or not?

Well I'm sure that you can go to China or India and have one of your kidneys removed for money if that is what motivates you and that is what you want.

As usual vop has it wrong as he sees everything in black or white. Organs are donated for lots of reasons and apart from in the third world I'm sure that getting money is very very low as a reason for people donating, either from the the donor or the donor's family/loved ones.

Most reasons for donating are given as wanting to help others, an example is the tragic death of Ashley Cooper at a recent motor race in Adelaide.

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,23272030-5006301,00.html

"THE family of the late V8 driver Ashley Cooper has saved the lives of seven seriously ill people by donating his organs.
The 27-year-old, who died on Monday afternoon after a weekend crash at the Clipsal 500, was a registered organ donor. A six-year-old received part of his liver. Others received his heart, lungs, kidneys and pancreas. Part of Cooper's liver was sent interstate.
It is understood one operation was conducted yesterday at the Flinders Medical Centre, although hospitals do not confirm details for privacy reasons.
The lifesaving decision has been applauded by the David Hookes Foundation, race organisers and Health Minister John Hill.
Cooper's father, Alan, yesterday said his family had all supported the organ donation.
"We all believed that it would have been Ashley's wish for his organs to be donated," he said, " . . . so there was no decision to be made."


So from something terrible like losing a loved one, something positive can come it.


As stated previously my wife has had a lot of dealings with organ donors and their families/loved ones and the recipients of transplants and as far as I know none have ever mentioned money as a reason for donating.

One thing she did tell me is that in the US, hospitals that do a transpalnt do receive extra money, but what more can you expect from a society that seems to be totally driven by money and to a certain extend the greed that this brings.

The story of Zach isn't the only bad thing to come out of the US in relation to Organ Donation, remember this case?

http://www.usatoday.com/money/2006-04-26-body-parts-cover-usat_x.htm

A lucrative business
While federal law prohibits most sales of body parts, it is legal to charge fees for handling, procuring, storing and processing human tissue. Thus an entire body, parceled out and delivered to the highest bidder, can fetch from $5,000 to tens of thousands of dollars in so-called processing fees — creating a powerful incentive for illegal sales.
Modern-day body snatchers provide bones, tendons and body parts other than transplantable organs to tissue banks, research facilities and other buyers. What they get paid: $600 for a brain, as much as $850 for an elbow, up to $850 for a hand, according to an analysis of market prices for fresh or frozen body parts used for research and education that was compiled by Annie Cheney, author of Body Brokers: Inside America's Underground Trade in Human Remains.


The bones of former broadcaster Alister Cooke being sold for money even though he died from lung cancer and the cancer had spread to his bones:

"Alistair Cooke a victim
Family members may never know that their loved ones' bodies have been harvested for a profit. They may see an open casket before a funeral and not realize body parts are missing, or they may receive only some cremated remains. It's hard to test ashes to be sure they are those of a family member, because cremation renders DNA testing useless unless bone fragments are present.
Susan Cooke Kittredge says her father was one of the victims. He was legendary British-American broadcaster Alistair Cooke, renowned as the host of PBS' Masterpiece Theatre.
On a late spring night in New York in 2004, the famed journalist lay in bed, his 95-year-old body worn down by lung cancer that had spread into his bones. Cooke had asked to be cremated, so when he died at midnight on March 30, 2004, his daughter hired a funeral home to take his body.
But, Kittredge says, just before Christmas of last year she was told by the Brooklyn district attorney's office that bones from her father's corpse had been stolen. They may have gone to tissue banks, she says, which she says then provided them for implants into patients.
"It was an icy finger from the grave," says Kittredge, 57, of Middlesex, Vt. "Bodies are important. We've loved the bodies of our loved ones. It's surprising to me how disturbing this has been in light of the fact that I am a minister and not unfamiliar with dead bodies. I can't let go of it."
One concern in the Brooklyn case is that patients who got allegedly stolen tissue could develop the same illnesses that killed or sickened their donors.
Tissue banks that received the tissue say that they sterilized it, making it safe for implantation. Blood samples accompany tissue and are tested to be sure the material is disease-free, the AATB says.
The FDA, however, reported that blood samples sent from Biomedical in some cases did not come from the same donors as the linked tissues. The agency says that the "actual infectious risk is unknown." "

[Camelopard]

My neighbor who lives literally across the street from me was in serious car accident 5 years ago that killed his wife. He struck his head and was in a coma for 12 days.

He would not have qualified for organ donation, for that you have to be "Brain Dead" and to be on "Life Support" i.e. being kept alive by a machine, not just brain injured.

http://www.nt.gov.au/health/comm_health/organ/brain_death.shtml

"Brain death is diagnosed by two independent doctors. The tests show whether the brain has any blood flow to it and whether it is functioning. If there is no blood flow the brain dies. Coma and brain death are different. A coma is an unconscious state from which you may recover, the brain keeps working even while the patient is unconscious. Brain death occurs when the brain has been so badly damaged from the lack of oxygen and blood supply that the brain stops functioning permanently."

That is what is worrying about the Zach case, obviuosly he was not brain dead, so someone failed in their duty of care. A nice little earner coming up for some lawyers.

[Roamy]

exactly!, I'd very p*ssed off on heaven(or hell) if I knew my family was trying to make money with my organs!

I would be elated if my family got anything for these well used beauties!!

[Alexamateo]

He would not have qualified for organ donation, for that you have to be "Brain Dead" and to be on "Life Support" i.e. being kept alive by a machine, not just brain injured.

http://www.nt.gov.au/health/comm_health/organ/brain_death.shtml

"Brain death is diagnosed by two independent doctors. The tests show whether the brain has any blood flow to it and whether it is functioning. If there is no blood flow the brain dies. Coma and brain death are different. A coma is an unconscious state from which you may recover, the brain keeps working even while the patient is unconscious. Brain death occurs when the brain has been so badly damaged from the lack of oxygen and blood supply that the brain stops functioning permanently."

That is what is worrying about the Zach case, obviuosly he was not brain dead, so someone failed in their duty of care. A nice little earner coming up for some lawyers.

Camel, I agree with you, but I am raising the question of how hard does the doctor try to get the patient to recover. A coma patient "may" recover which implies they "may not" recover. As you brought up in the reference to Body Brokers, doctors are placed in the conflicting roles of healer and harvester. As I brought up in the example of my neighbor, if he had died, no one would have been surprised.

[Camelopard]

Camel, I agree with you, but I am raising the question of how hard does the doctor try to get the patient to recover. A coma patient "may" recover which implies they "may not" recover. As you brought up in the reference to Body Brokers, doctors are placed in the conflicting roles of healer and harvester. As I brought up in the example of my neighbor, if he had died, no one would have been surprised.

Yes I know what you mean, I guess it comes down to the ethics of the doctors involved and how much you trust them. Hopefully having 2 doctors involved would make it more difficult to allow someone not to recover so that their organs could be harvested.

One could also bring up that allegedly in the PRC criminals are executed to 'order' for their body parts, not a good thing in most peoples eyes I would think.

Most people focus on heart, lung, kidney liver transplants and the like which are heavily dependent on the 'brain dead' criteria and I believe that there were only 200 such transplants done in Australia in the last year.
However there are other means of donation after death, skin, bones and eyes to various banks, plus leaving your body to 'science' and as part of this brain donation is very comon.

[anthonyvop]

Typical of a right winger, everthing thing comes down to MONEY :confused: .

No.
It comes down to being used by the Government as a pawn of some feel-good legislation.
Abortion is legal because a woman has a right to chose what happens to her body.
A woman can be paid to be a surrogate mother.
A woman can be paid to donate eggs.
Some places even pay you to donate Blood.
Why don't I have those rights over my body?

In your world it is ok to profit with my body if it is for what you consider the greater good.

Sorry. I support the rights of a free individual in wanting to provide for his or her family.

Remember. Charity begins at home.

[millencolin]

According to my drivers license... i'm an organ donor. I must of just ticked yes without really thinking about it :p :... hey i have better things to do than stand around in the department of transport office!

[Camelopard]

In your world it is ok to profit with my body if it is for what you consider the greater good.

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Again you have got it wrong, where did I say it was ok to profit from organ donation? In fact, my opinion is completely the opposite. I tried to point out that you citizens of the US put profit and money before all else and that's why events like cancer ridden bones are SOLD to body brokers, rather than being cremated as requested by the deceased!

In Australia no-one profits monetarily from Organ Donation, there may be a few exreme examples like where a kidney was given to a rather rich media mogul by his helicopter pilot, who knows what was involved in that deal.

[anthonyvop]

:confused: :confused: :confused:

In Australia no-one profits monetarily from Organ Donation, there may be a few exreme examples like where a kidney was given to a rather rich media mogul by his helicopter pilot, who knows what was involved in that deal.
Nobody?
The Drug companies donate the medications? The surgon makes as much as the guy who gives you the flu shot? The company that sells the bandages sells at cost?
If you want to donate your organs fine. good for you.
I just believe it is wrong for anyone to say what I can do with my body.

BTW The harvesting of diseased tissue without consent has happened but is against the law in the U.S.

[Camelopard]

Nobody?
The Drug companies donate the medications? The surgon makes as much as the guy who gives you the flu shot? The company that sells the bandages sells at cost?
If you want to donate your organs fine. good for you.
I just believe it is wrong for anyone to say what I can do with my body.

BTW The harvesting of diseased tissue without consent has happened but is against the law in the U.S.

The doctors and the drug companies and the nurses and the bandage suppliers and the equipment manufacturers and the kitchen staff and the paramedics and the hospital cleaners and everyone else would be getting paid anyway for doing their job, regardless of the circumstances.

Harvesting of diseased tissue is morally, ethically and legally wrong, however people driven by the all mighty dollar will do things like that to make a buck, because that is what makes your society tick.

I'm not saying that anyone is telling you what you can and can't do with your body, perhaps you should go back and read the thread from the beginning.

My point of view is that people can be donors or not, depending on their own beliefs, I've never said that any government should tell you or me what I can or can't do with my body, I've merely pointed out that to my eyes that unfortunately profit seems to be a reason for donation in the US.

And yes I do believe that charity begins at home, that is why I am a registered donor in the event of me being brain dead (they can have my organs) or being dead dead(!) they can have my skin, bones, brain or whatever, not my eyes though, I may need them for the afterlife :) .

[leopard]

I haven't yet considered to donate my organ or to accept others' organ when I need.

Giving regular donation to charity foundation and participating in any social event, as much as possible I can, makes my life meaningful and this gives me feeling to be more ready for being dead. :)

[leopard]

And yes I do believe that charity begins at home, that is why I am a registered donor in the event of me being brain dead (they can have my organs) or being dead dead(!) they can have my skin, bones, brain or whatever, not my eyes though, I may need them for the afterlife :) .
You will not have shape when reincarnated only with intact two eyes. :)

[slinkster]

When you donate your organs:
The Doctors get paid.
The Hospital gets paid.
The Nurses get paid,
The Medical Supply Company gets Paid.
The Drug company gets paid.

The Organ donor's Family gets.....squat.

I find this a bit sad. It doesn't come down to money. Or it certainly shouldn't. The organ donor's family gets the knowledge that out of the death of their loved one someone else had benefited and been given a chance at life.

In an ideal world, I wouldn't want my organs to be given to criminals, rapists and murderers or even my lungs to a smoker if it came to it... but I'm sure plenty of you who smoke wouldn't want to be left out of people's potential life giving organ donations if you needed it.

At the end of the day you're giving your organs up after you've no NEED for them to offer someone else a chance. I don't think there should be pressure on people to give them, and it seems this opens up alot of negative and bad attituides about money, ownership, and even trusting doctors to be professional. I consider it personal choice, a gift really.

The only place I sit on the fence with this, is with egg donations and why men can get paid to give sperm donations, but women aren't allowed payment for egg donations. That's a crap rule.

[SOD]

I thought it was wonderful that my brother's organs were donated when he died. I hope whoever got them was able to live a good life irrespective of whatever bad things they 'may' have done to themselves.

[Garry Walker]

I have fixed feelings about it, but currently I am not an organ donor