Paul Tracy - can someone clarify this for me

[Indy500'79]

Robin Miller has mentioned it before, and Vasser last night on Wind Tunnel mentioned PT's "contract difficulties" preventing him from running in 2008 (even just the 500). I get that he is under contract to Forsythe - but am I understanding this correctly that if a sponsor is found and a suitable team is willing to pay PT the salary he wants, Forsythe will not let him run IndyCars in 2008? I can't beleive he would do that to PT, no matter how much he hates Tony George. PT has said he wants to run in the new series and be a part of rebuilding it - Forsythe would be penalizing the wrong guy. It's nuts not to have PT in the series when it needs all the marketing boost it can get.

[gofastandwynn]

If you go to [urlhttp://www.1070thefan.com/trackside/[/url], PT did an interview on March 20th that you can podcast where he says that Gerry is not returning his calls and he can't do any serious talks until that happens.

[Pat Wiatrowski]

Robin Miller has mentioned it before, and Vasser last night on Wind Tunnel mentioned PT's "contract difficulties" preventing him from running in 2008 (even just the 500). I get that he is under contract to Forsythe - but am I understanding this correctly that if a sponsor is found and a suitable team is willing to pay PT the salary he wants, Forsythe will not let him run IndyCars in 2008? I can't beleive he would do that to PT, no matter how much he hates Tony George. PT has said he wants to run in the new series and be a part of rebuilding it - Forsythe would be penalizing the wrong guy. It's nuts not to have PT in the series when it needs all the marketing boost it can get.

Your own last statement answers your own question. Why in the he** would GF help the .irl with a "marketing boost"?

[Chamoo]

Your own last statement answers your own question. Why in the he** would GF help the .irl with a "marketing boost"?

Because it would be a sign of respect from GF to the man who brought him his most championship in CC. It would be a sign of integrity to release PT and allow him to do what he loves to do.

[weeflyonthewall]

Is the architect of "CRAPWAGON" terminology welcome in ICS circles?

[Osiris333]

It's obvious that GF is holding Tracy's contract, and no one will touch him until he's released. GF is probably hoping to extort some more $$$$ from TG or somebody in the IRL by holding onto the only asset he has.

Nothing will probably happen until he has to pay Tracy for not driving. Then he'll suddenly decide to let him go.

[tbyars]

Is the architect of "CRAPWAGON" terminology welcome in ICS circles?

weefly, while it may be tough for some to understand, if you look at some of the very ICS-centric forums out there, I think you will find that the possibility of PT running in the ICS this year has met with overwhelming approval.

As has been the case for many years, it seems that most all comers are welcome.

[tbyars]

Your own last statement answers your own question. Why in the he** would GF help the .irl with a "marketing boost"?

Well, for one thing, Pat, in a recent interview, PT commented that GF not only has to pay him, he also has to provide a car for him to drive. If that is indeed true, do you not believe GF should be honorable enough to fulfill his obligations? Or is it OK to break your contracts just so you don't have to provide the IRL with a "marketing boost?"

Your answer will say a lot about you. Answer carefully.

[SoCalPVguy]

Nobody (and I mean NO body) on this forum knows what Tracy's contract status is including me.

However; let me give you some general contact law items. A contract requires a meeting of the minds, offer and acceptance, consideration, and an intention (reliance) to create legal relations. If a contract meets these requirements it can be legally enforceable whether oral or written.

Given the results, if true, that Tracy is contractually prohibited from driving for another team than Forsythe then the following MUST be true:

1. PT has a leaglly enforeceable contract with someone whether it be Forsythe racing, Forsythe research, GF personally, or whatever (it doesnt really matter).

2. Consideration in the form of some payment in accordance with terms of that enforceable contract is continuing to be paid to PT by the contracted party.

3. IF this consideration is not continuing to be paid, the contract would be breached and PT would be free to pursue other opprotunities.

4. By the results, PT is not pursuing other opportunities, so therfore; the contact has not (yet) been breached and also therefore; consideration must be still being paid to PT in terms of the contract on an ongoing basis at this time.

5. This leads me to believe it is some personal service contract with GF personally otherwise if it was a contract wherby PT was paid to "drive" a racecar, and a racecar was not provided to be 'driven', PT could argue that the contract was breached despite any ongoing monetary consideration payments. I don't think he has done that (yet).

The bottom line is that unless a breach of contract is alleged and proven by PT, OR the contract is cancelled -another can of worms because it may only be unilaterally cancelled by one party (GF) as opposed to mutually (GF & PT) - Poor PT may have to sit out, but at least he's getting paid to sit. I think it is with GF personally as his other racing companies may have declared bankruptcy and that could void (breach) the contract and that's not an arguement we have heard (yet).

The contracting party (GF or related entitiy) is going to have to pay PT for the term of the contract no matter what if it is not breached, the best the contracting party can do is get another entity to arrange/ sub-contract with GF (or related entitiy) to have PT drive and pay GF (or related entity) some agreed upon fee, not unlike a contracted ball player who gets cut from a team with tim eremaing on contract, signs on with another team and any salary he makes if any, is deducted from the original contract amount but the original team is on the hook for the total amount to the player during the term of the contract.

[Osiris333]

Is the architect of "CRAPWAGON" terminology welcome in ICS circles?

Tracy :vader: did not coin the term that shall not be spoken. The term "Formula..." was used here in this forum, which he appearantly frequents. Several months after it first appeared, Tracy was quoted in a news story as saying "I'm not driving one of those **********."

And why wouldn't Indycar want one of the best drivers in North America in their series? It's not like any of the established IRL "stars" were helping them any.

[SoCalPVguy]

And why wouldn't Indycar want one of the best drivers in North America in their series? It's not like any of the established IRL "stars" were helping them any.

I agree that ICS would "want" PT, probably the only recognizable CCWS 'name' driver to the average race fan.

I think Forsythe knows that too and he is hoping that someone will come along (TG ???) and buy out his expensive contact obligation, but he's not letting PT go for free.

[Chaparral66]

Is the architect of "CRAPWAGON" terminology welcome in ICS circles?

C'mon, weefly, everybody said some rather cold blooded things in the heat of the open wheel war. No can honestly wear the white hat in this deal. And you can believe PT still doesn't like the cars, but for the sake of open wheel racing, he's saying all the right things for now, hoping the sports rebuilds, which is what we all say we want. Hey, even Paul Newman is playing nice.

[garyshell]

C'mon, weefly, everybody said some rather cold blooded things in the heat of the open wheel war. No can honestly wear the white hat in this deal. And you can believe PT still doesn't like the cars, but for the sake of open wheel racing, he's saying all the right things for now, hoping the sports rebuilds, which is what we all say we want. Hey, even Paul Newman is playing nice.


Both Pauls want to play and there is only one place left to play their chosen game now, the ICS.

Gary

[Albert D. Kallal]

Well, I am guessing here, PT can walk from this contract, but it will cost him millions to do so. I reasonably sure that PT wants out…he can walk. The problem is that I don’t see PT getting 2+ million a year in IRL (because of being so late in the season).

So, PT choice is much:
a) do nothing, hold GF to the contract, and collect the millions for the next two years..and retire

b) Walk from the contract, and take a ride with any team, and likely not even get paid a million per year.

It is not really GF holding to the contract, but walking from it will cost PT big bucks, and with only 2-3 years left in your career, do you take a risk at getting no ride in the IRL, or a low paying one?

Or, do you ride out a contract that gives you several million for the next 2-3 years?

Albert D. Kallal
Edmonton, Alberta Canada
kallal@msn.com

[fightinchunk]

weefly, while it may be tough for some to understand, if you look at some of the very ICS-centric forums out there, I think you will find that the possibility of PT running in the ICS this year has met with overwhelming approval.

As has been the case for many years, it seems that most all comers are welcome.

what are the ics forums out there? i searched and can't find anything.

[mikiec]

I had a thought about this.... let's assume that there is a clause in PT's contract that says that GF has to provide him with a car (which apparently is what PT has said exists).

Now, given that PT currently isn't able to release himself from that contract, and I'm sure he's got his lawyers looking at every which way to get him out of it, and given that GF has flat refused to give him a car in the IndyCar Series, then there must be something else in the contract which is causing this problem...

Perhaps, the wording of the contract is something along the lines of "GF will provide a race car to PT for each event of the Champ Car World Series..."

If so, given that the Long Beach GP will be held as a CCWS race (with IRL points and purse) and will be the only CCWS race of the season, GF would still be fulfilling his part of the contract.

This was a subject that Curt Cavin wanted to ask on his radio show but PT's mobile signal cut out whilst driving through the desert.

[Dr. Krogshöj]

what are the ics forums out there? i searched and can't find anything.

Trackforum, SPEED Tv boards...

[Krazy_Knuck]

I had a thought about this.... let's assume that there is a clause in PT's contract that says that GF has to provide him with a car (which apparently is what PT has said exists).

Perhaps, the wording of the contract is something along the lines of "GF will provide a race car to PT for each event of the Champ Car World Series..."

If so, given that the Long Beach GP will be held as a CCWS race (with IRL points and purse) and will be the only CCWS race of the season, GF would still be fulfilling his part of the contract.


This is the exact same thing I was thinking also. After the CCWS race perhaps PT's contract will become null and void. Although it will really hurt Tracy's options of finding a good ride with the IRL season alreadly underway.

Krazy

[mikiec]

This is the exact same thing I was thinking also. After the CCWS race perhaps PT's contract will become null and void.

Maybe it will, although it could be argued that GF would have fulfilled his commitment for 2008 and could therefore theoretically hold PT under contract until 2009, when there won't be any Champ Car World Series races.

Of course, this is all pure speculation.

[seppefan]

Lets see if PT drives at Long Beach. If GF holds him out of that one then he would be shooting himself in the foot as PT's attendance at LB will sell tickets which GF part promotes.

[Ruben Barrios]

GF is an ass... He has the same amount of ego and grudges as the very villified TG... GF is as much fault as TG in the "merger"...

[Indy500'79]

It sounds like maybe this "holdout" is both on PT and Forsythe. It's hard to imagine that Forsythe only wants to penalize PT to get back at TG. Probably more along the lines that he views the contract as an asset and wants someone to cash him out. Likewise, although PT would clearly rather drive, if he gets stuck on the sidelines, he might as well collect a paycheck. That being said, if no one steps up to pay PT, I can't imgaine Forsythe shelling out millions for PT to sit around and do nothing - I know he can afford to, but it's hard to imagine things playing out that way.