mclaren moveable aero parts

[jedii]

when lewis wheel hub feel out on the pit stop, they stuck it back in after which the thing was spinning with the wheel surely this makes it a moveable aero part, which is banned right? so surley he should be disquilifed i wonder if the stewards noticed this... unlikely

[SGWilko]

when lewis wheel hub feel out on the pit stop, they stuck it back in after which the thing was spinning with the wheel surely this makes it a moveable aero part, which is banned right? so surley he should be disquilifed i wonder if the stewards noticed this... unlikely

Would they [The stewards] need to prove that a part, when designed and working properly is not a moveable device, is intentionally broken by the pit crew, costing the car in question 13 seconds, in order to attempt to gain an on track advantage by making the said broken dvice moveable..........

[Easy Drifter]

And disqualify Webber for loss of light!

[Helicon_One]

By the logic of original poster, any car which suffers damage through a collision which loosens any aerodynamic part of the bodywork should be disqualified from the race.

[markabilly]

Would they [The stewards] need to prove that a part, when designed and working properly is not a moveable device, is intentionally broken by the pit crew, costing the car in question 13 seconds, in order to attempt to gain an on track advantage by making the said broken dvice moveable..........


Yeah, penalize those cheaters good......ferrari is probably thinking gee, why did we not think of that in Australia, maybe Kimi would not have run off the track....set a good example by DQ both LH and HK, that will stop such stuff in the future

[jjanicke]

when lewis wheel hub feel out on the pit stop, they stuck it back in after which the thing was spinning with the wheel surely this makes it a movable aero part, which is banned right? so surly he should be disqualified i wonder if the stewards noticed this... unlikely

The device is already a "movable aerodynamic device" in it's functioning form. How can it become a "movable aerodynamic device" after being installed incorrectly.

The only reason this thing is allowed in the first place is because Ferrari somehow convinced the FIA that it shouldn't be classified an "aerodynamic device" because it's part of the breaking systems. Last I understood it extracted air through the brakes for cooling, and it moves when the tires steer. Personally I'm baffled how a MOVING AIR extractor is not a "movable aerodynamic device" in the first place.

[JSH]

The device is already a "movable aerodynamic device" in it's functioning form. How can it become a "movable aerodynamic device" after being installed incorrectly.


But when installed correctly it doesn't move.

[DimitraF1]

FIA-RRARI RULES. GET OVER IT :p

[jjanicke]

But when installed correctly it doesn't move.

Yes it does. Wheel turns left, the faring turns left, etc.

The definition of a static aerodynamic device is one that is rigidly attached to the chassis. The brake faring is not attached to the chassis and moves with the movements of the wheels, theoretically being a movable areo device. But like I already said Ferrari were somehow able to convince the FIA is wasn't and now mostly everybody is doing it.

[DonJippo]

The definition of a static aerodynamic device is one that is rigidly attached to the chassis. The brake faring is not attached to the chassis and moves with the movements of the wheels, theoretically being a movable areo device. But like I already said Ferrari were somehow able to convince the FIA is wasn't and now mostly everybody is doing it.

Formula 1 car moves around the track, does that make it moveable aerodynamic device :eek:

[Easy Drifter]

FIA has disqualified the entire field. It was noticed every driver moved his head and helmets are a moveable areodynamic device! Some drivers even had their hands outside the cockpit. Horrors!!! Let us get real and quit nit picking.

[jedii]

The device is already a "movable aerodynamic device" in it's functioning form. How can it become a "movable aerodynamic device" after being installed incorrectly.

The only reason this thing is allowed in the first place is because Ferrari somehow convinced the FIA that it shouldn't be classified an "aerodynamic device" because it's part of the breaking systems. Last I understood it extracted air through the brakes for cooling, and it moves when the tires steer. Personally I'm baffled how a MOVING AIR extractor is not a "movable aerodynamic device" in the first place.

it does not move if you watch closely

[BeansBeansBeans]

Formula 1 car moves around the track, does that make it moveable aerodynamic device :eek:


JJanicke is absolutely right. The wheel farings are not classed as aerodynamic devices by the FIA, they are considered to be brake cooling-aids. If the FIA considered them to be aerodynamic devices, they would be banned, because they aren't rigidly secured to the entirely sprung part of the car and would therefore be considered moveable aerodynamic devices. Still, don't let your ignorance of the rules get in the way of a good bash.

[Daniel]

Of course they would be. But how can you have a brake cooling device which doesn't move? Every part of the car which gets air flowing over it so you could argue every bit of the car is an aerodynamic device.

[markabilly]

It won't move if you close your eyes

[Valve Bounce]

when lewis wheel hub feel out on the pit stop, they stuck it back in after which the thing was spinning with the wheel surely this makes it a moveable aero part, which is banned right? so surley he should be disquilifed i wonder if the stewards noticed this... unlikely

Agreed! let's disqualify him.

[Valve Bounce]

Of course they would be. But how can you have a brake cooling device which doesn't move? Every part of the car which gets air flowing over it so you could argue every bit of the car is an aerodynamic device.

Good point. The only thing that apparently doesn't move is the track, but then it is part of the earth which rotates and revolves around the sun. We need Einstein to resolve this.

[BeansBeansBeans]

Of course they would be. But how can you have a brake cooling device which doesn't move? Every part of the car which gets air flowing over it so you could argue every bit of the car is an aerodynamic device.

Daniel, my point is...

The fact that Lewis Hamilton's wheel cover was rotating due to a fault is fairly meaningless, as it is not considered an aerodynamic device, and if it was, it'd be banned anyway as it is not rigidly secured to the entirely sprung part of the car, and is already therefore, by the FIA's own definition, 'moveable'. From this I conclue that the OP is talking out of his arse.

[Daniel]

Daniel, my point is...

The fact that Lewis Hamilton's wheel cover was rotating due to a fault is fairly meaningless, as it is not considered an aerodynamic device, and if it was, it'd be banned anyway as it is not rigidly secured to the entirely sprung part of the car, and is already therefore, by the FIA's own definition, 'moveable'. From this I conclue that the OP is talking out of his arse.
I just thought it was strange that you replied to DonJippo saying he was ignorant of the rules when he was merely making the same point but with humour.

The thing is JJanicke seems to think it IS an aero device so he's not completely right :) Personally I think it's a good bash :)

I too agree that the moving wheel cover is doesn't justify a thread. If there was any advantage gained I'm sure it was unintentional. No need for disquilification :p

[Daniel]

Good point. The only thing that apparently doesn't move is the track, but then it is part of the earth which rotates and revolves around the sun. We need Einstein to resolve this.
OMFG!!!!! Ban tracks! Air goes over them and they're moving. Moving aero device!!!! :eek:

[CNR]

is that wheel hub not held in place by the wheel nut i think he would have had a lose wheel.

[wmcot]

Good point. The only thing that apparently doesn't move is the track, but then it is part of the earth which rotates and revolves around the sun. We need Einstein to resolve this.

But is the Earth aerodynamic since it moves through "empty" space? Therefore, the FIA would allow the earth (especially since Bernie owns most of it!) ;)

[jjanicke]

BeansBeansBeans thanks for the backing.


I just thought it was strange that you replied to DonJippo saying he was ignorant of the rules when he was merely making the same point but with humour.

The thing is JJanicke seems to think it IS an aero device so he's not completely right :) Personally I think it's a good bash :)

I too agree that the moving wheel cover is doesn't justify a thread. If there was any advantage gained I'm sure it was unintentional. No need for disquilification :p

I do not consider it a movable areo device. The FIA classified it as legal last year. That said I do find it strange that a mass damper is considered a movable aero device and therefore banned, and a brake cooling system, that clearly moves with relation to the sprung chassis and improves airflow around the wheels isn't considered one.

So bash away, while knowing I was right all along ;)

[Daniel]

Personally I'm baffled how a MOVING AIR extractor is not a "movable aerodynamic device" in the first place.


I do not consider it a movable areo device. The FIA classified it as legal last year. That said I do find it strange that a mass damper is considered a movable aero device and therefore banned, and a brake cooling system, that clearly moves with relation to the sprung chassis and improves airflow around the wheels isn't considered one.

So bash away, while knowing I was right all along ;)

Split personalities? :confused:

[jjanicke]

Split personalities? :confused:

:confused:

The brake cooling fairings are, by the FIA, legal and I accept that. That doesn't mean I have to agree with decision. But a decision is a decision and as long as the FIA enforces it unilaterally I could care less whether or not it's actually a movable aero device.

[Daniel]

:confused:

The brake cooling fairings are, by the FIA, legal and I accept that. That doesn't mean I have to agree with decision. But a decision is a decision and as long as the FIA enforces it unilaterally I could care less whether or not it's actually a movable aero device.
Why is a disc on the outside any different to a duct on the inside of the wheel. It's a brake cooling duct. Story. End off.

[jjanicke]

Why is a disc on the outside any different to a duct on the inside of the wheel. It's a brake cooling duct. Story. End off.

Because the duct actually negatively impacts aero efficiency. That's why teams try to minimize the size of the duct as much as possible.

The brake cooling fairing improves airflow around the tires, reducing the drag they produce. The FIA actually introduced rules some time back to stop teams from building wheel/tire fairings.

Keep 'em coming! ;)

[Azumanga Davo]

It's dilemmas like these that make 22 pieces of identical 2x2 flat cardboard would be easier to understand.

[Tazio]

It's dilemmas like these that make 22 pieces of identical 2x2 flat cardboard would be easier to understand.

Indeed! One of the most meaningless threads since the season began!

[wmcot]

Because the duct actually negatively impacts aero efficiency. That's why teams try to minimize the size of the duct as much as possible.

The brake cooling fairing improves airflow around the tires, reducing the drag they produce. The FIA actually introduced rules some time back to stop teams from building wheel/tire fairings.

Keep 'em coming! ;)

So a moveable aero device that decreases performance is allowable, but if it increases performance, it's not legal? I thought ALL moving aero devices were illegal (even the stupid ones that would decrease performance.)

[jjanicke]

wmcot, sounds reasonable to me. Why would you get penalized if you are already penalizing yourself?

[wmcot]

wmcot, sounds reasonable to me. Why would you get penalized if you are already penalizing yourself?

Just following the rules...

[ioan]

Last I understood it extracted air through the brakes for cooling, and it moves when the tires steer. Personally I'm baffled how a MOVING AIR extractor is not a "movable aerodynamic device" in the first place.

Tires move too under steering, and Ferarri use them too, so ban them! :p :

[JSH]

Tires move too under steering, and Ferarri use them too, so ban them! :p :

Awesome. No more front wheel steering... They'll need to use the Differential to steer the cars. :p

[jjanicke]

Wow this thread has spiraled into the nether regions.

Peace-out!

[markabilly]

Wow this thread has spiraled into the nether regions.

Peace-out!


Sounds like there is also a need for a proctologist on the FIA inspection team...maybe he could also use a rectal thrermometer to figure out correct fuel temps....

[SGWilko]

Sounds like there is also a need for a proctologist on the FIA inspection team...maybe he could also use a rectal thrermometer to figure out correct fuel temps....

Trouble is, some of today's drivers are puckered up tighter than a snare drum, the FIA guy would have trouble inserting the aforementioned temerature monitoring device....!! ;)