The comeback of Toyota

[jens]

Toyota is the biggest positive news for me today. :) After so many years of waiting and pain Toyota is finally making some progress and showing some promise. What do I mean by 'comeback'? They were quite quick back in 2005, but alas threw that potential away. They have almost been written off, many people have said that they should quit F1 or start concentrating on Williams. It has even been said that they are the most useless team and the biggest failure in F1 history. But Toyota is doing its best to prove the critics wrong. Many may be wondering that why have they risen. Nothing happens without a reason, so I'm trying to guess the background.

- close co-operation with Williams. Now it's their second season of partnership and finally the results are arising. I think Yamashina has even thanked Sir Frank for his advice.
- totally new concept of the car. Toyota has decided to take a new route and risks in order to become more competitive.
- the second season for Pascal Vasselon's team to construct a car. For their first season they took a conservative route, now a more aggressive one. Remember, Aldo Costa as a chief desinger wasn't successful in his first year for Ferrari (2005), but in his second one was.
- more experience. Remember Williams. They joined F1 in 1973 and won their first race as late as in 1979. And now they are what? One of the most legendary teams in F1. Toyota started in 2002 and now it's 2008. It takes a lot more time in F1 to become a serious contender than in any other series, after having started from zero. Team arguably is also listening to drivers more as Trulli has stated. :D
- maybe replacing Tomita with Yamashina has had some effect too, don't know
- many people don't know that Toyota has brought a lot more experience into the team. Dieter Gass from Williams and Frank Dernie (whose experience Trulli has praised a lot).

I think if any of the forum members here had been a decision maker in Toyota, then most of you would have ended their F1 project quite a while ago. But those guys won't give up so easily - respect to them for fighting hard to get better and actually starting to achieve it! :up: Toyota is different to other teams. They don't try to hire stars (like RB has hired Newey or Honda has hired Brawn), they are trying to make their own system working. They don't want any other guy taking the honour of success (for example actually Gascoyne got the main attention back in 2005), but their goal is to make the success look like the success of the whole Toyota team, not just a few famous guys.

[janneppi]

Hopefully this wasn't just a one off. Great to see new cars on the top.

[Mihai]

Toyota is different to other teams. They don't try to hire stars (like RB has hired Newey or Honda has hired Brawn), they are trying to make their own system working. They don't want any other guy taking the honour of success (for example actually Gascoyne got the main attention back in 2005), but their goal is to make the success look like the success of the whole Toyota team, not just a few famous guys.

I know that they promote the so-called 'Toyota way' but they did attempt to land an Alonso deal this winter, right? I think the failed negociation was confirmed by either of the two sides or was it just a speculation?

IMHO 2008 could be a flashback of 2005 for Toyota, with Trulli being the spearhead for some good results, including a couple of podium finishes and maybe a low-on-fuel qualifying run in order to secure another 'fake' pole-position.

[Valve Bounce]

Hang on a sec: they finished fourth but only because Massa ran off the track and Lewis had that wheel problem, not to mention he was penalised 5 grid positions.

As much as I lauded Jarno's fine drive, let's not burn our bridges before we cross our chickens.

[jens]

I know that they promote the so-called 'Toyota way' but they did attempt to land an Alonso deal this winter, right? I think the failed negociation was confirmed by either of the two sides or was it just a speculation?


Toyota has indeed arguably tried to hire top drivers, but these have not gone further from rumours. But among other workforce besides drivers I haven't heard other 'big' rumours (for example Toyota didn't even attempt to hire Brawn).


Hang on a sec: they finished fourth but only because Massa ran off the track and Lewis had that wheel problem, not to mention he was penalised 5 grid positions.

As much as I lauded Jarno's fine drive, let's not burn our bridges before we cross our chickens.

On the other hand. Toyota was clearly at least fourth quickest car and seemed even capable of fighting against McLarens. Surely Toyota is not a top car yet, but my point is about making a step forward, which they have quite obviously done.

[ioan]

Jarno destroyed his and Nick's race in the first corner. In fact he almost took both of them out of the race.
A steady race but nothing to be excited about.

[Robinho]

a big improvement from Toyota, but 4th was not represenative of the cars pace, in reality they are still behind the top 3 teams. still a very good drive from Trulli, and importantly fro him he was on the pace all race, not just qually.

i think the trulli of a few years ago might have folded in the last few laps under pressure, not so today

[stevie_gerrard]

Trulli was superb, and i think Glock will get into it when they get back to Europe, They could be a surprise package this season.

At least Pino will be happy..... :p :

[osg]

Lets wait until we get to Europe before we get all excited jens......

[Tazio]

I'm guessing Jarno is feeling pretty satisfied with his race.

Good! on him! :)

[pino]

Jarno destroyed his and Nick's race in the first corner. In fact he almost took both of them out of the race.
A steady race but nothing to be excited about.

Ioan, do yourself a favour and go and watch the start a couple of more times...you will see that both BMW tried to make a sandwich of him. What Jarno was supposed to do there ? :confused: Time to stop to dislike him because Toyota confirmed him insted of Ralf :p :

[harsha]

Steady Drive but second what Valve Says

[ioan]

Ioan, do yourself a favour and go and watch the start a couple of more times...you will see that both BMW tried to make a sandwich of him. What Jarno was supposed to do there ? :confused:

Sandwich huh?! Does that mean that he needs to hit Heidfeld's car???


Time to stop to dislike him because Toyota confirmed him insted of Ralf :p :

Dislike him because of being preferred to Ralf?
Come back when his F1 achievements will be up to par with those of Ralf. :p :

[wedge]

Toyota is the biggest positive news for me today. :) After so many years of waiting and pain Toyota is finally making some progress and showing some promise. What do I mean by 'comeback'? They were quite quick back in 2005, but alas threw that potential away. They have almost been written off, many people have said that they should quit F1 or start concentrating on Williams. It has even been said that they are the most useless team and the biggest failure in F1 history. But Toyota is doing its best to prove the critics wrong. Many may be wondering that why have they risen. Nothing happens without a reason, so I'm trying to guess the background.

- close co-operation with Williams. Now it's their second season of partnership and finally the results are arising. I think Yamashina has even thanked Sir Frank for his advice.
- totally new concept of the car. Toyota has decided to take a new route and risks in order to become more competitive.
- the second season for Pascal Vasselon's team to construct a car. For their first season they took a conservative route, now a more aggressive one. Remember, Aldo Costa as a chief desinger wasn't successful in his first year for Ferrari (2005), but in his second one was.
- more experience. Remember Williams. They joined F1 in 1973 and won their first race as late as in 1979. And now they are what? One of the most legendary teams in F1. Toyota started in 2002 and now it's 2008. It takes a lot more time in F1 to become a serious contender than in any other series, after having started from zero. Team arguably is also listening to drivers more as Trulli has stated. :D
- maybe replacing Tomita with Yamashina has had some effect too, don't know
- many people don't know that Toyota has brought a lot more experience into the team. Dieter Gass from Williams and Frank Dernie (whose experience Trulli has praised a lot).

I think if any of the forum members here had been a decision maker in Toyota, then most of you would have ended their F1 project quite a while ago. But those guys won't give up so easily - respect to them for fighting hard to get better and actually starting to achieve it! :up: Toyota is different to other teams. They don't try to hire stars (like RB has hired Newey or Honda has hired Brawn), they are trying to make their own system working. They don't want any other guy taking the honour of success (for example actually Gascoyne got the main attention back in 2005), but their goal is to make the success look like the success of the whole Toyota team, not just a few famous guys.

Pascal Vasselon said the design team started off with a brand new sheet of paper.

James Allen had it spot on when he said most teams made evolutionary changes for this year. There's hardly a difference between this year and last year.

You could argue its partly because of long life engines/gearbox and control tyres but I think the designers are more worried about next year's cars when they get rid of the aero aids.

[Knock-on]

Sandwich huh?! Does that mean that he needs to hit Heidfeld's car???



Dislike him because of being preferred to Ralf?
Come back when his F1 achievements will be up to par with those of Ralf. :p :

I don't really rate either of them but looking at their achievements, there's not much to choose?

http://www.grandprixstats.com/en/drivers/details.php?d=619

http://www.grandprixstats.com/en/drivers/details.php?d=693

Ralphie has been consistently mediocre where JT has been erratic between the sublime and the ridiculous.

RS should have done better with the machinery he had IMO but JT's spell at Renault could have yielded more.

However, after over 10 years of F1, JT seems to have some real drive again where RS when he left more sort of petered out :)

[jens]

Some say that there is nothing to be excited about?

The last time Trulli finished so high, was US Grand Prix in 2006.
The last time a Toyota finished so high, was French Grand Prix in 2006.

It's quite a while ago, so every positive moment after such long waiting period has to be celebrated. :p :



James Allen had it spot on when he said most teams made evolutionary changes for this year. There's hardly a difference between this year and last year.

You could argue its partly because of long life engines/gearbox and control tyres but I think the designers are more worried about next year's cars when they get rid of the aero aids.

Are you trying to hint that Toyota might be less competitive or at least in disadvantage for 2009 due to putting a lot of attention into their 2008 car?

[pino]

Sandwich huh?! Does that mean that he needs to hit Heidfeld's car??



No he didn't need that, but that was a normal racing-incident wich can happen to anyone...even to Jarno ;)




Dislike him because of being preferred to Ralf?
Come back when his F1 achievements will be up to par with those of Ralf. :p :



Too bad that those achievements didn't help him to keep his seat at Toyota :p :