Sebring testing

[BobGarage]

first photo... KVRT cars...

Servia has "Champ Car Orange" on the roll hoop/air intake.

Power green and yellow as expected

http://www.indycar.com/news/2008/series/images/testing-cvr-03192008.jpg

cars take to the track in 5 minutes time...

[BobGarage]

timing and scoring only has 6 cars

2 KVRT
2 DCR (bruno and mario)
2 Conquest

No HVM racing!

T&S URL:- http://scoring.indycar.com/2007/

[V12]

timing and scoring only has 6 cars

2 KVRT
2 DCR (bruno and mario)
2 Conquest

No HVM racing!

T&S URL:- http://scoring.indycar.com/2007/

HVM have only announced their intent so far, as yet they don't have a driver. Also Power is listed on T&S as number 5, thought he was #8? (Although 5 is free now)

Anyone know what race numbers N/H/L are taking? They ran 36/37 on their Indy effort a few years back but Bernoldi has 36 and I would guess they would be aiming for lower numbers now they are racing in the series full time?

[BobGarage]

Anyone know what race numbers N/H/L are taking? They ran 36/37 on their Indy effort a few years back but Bernoldi has 36 and I would guess they would be aiming for lower numbers now they are racing in the series full time?

from what i hear GRahal will be #2 and Wilson will be #6

[V12]

Doesn't AJ Foyt (Vision) have 2 and Briscoe's Penske have #6? Or were those numbers for ex-CCWS teams testing only?

[BobGarage]

i've checked and you are right, about briscoe at least.

guess what I heard is wrong :)

[BobGarage]

Power is listed on T&S as number 5, thought he was #8?

power now listed as #8 on t&s.
strangly servia is now listed as #5, when we have a photo of his car with a #32

[FormerFF]

No HVM racing!



I believe that they announced they would not be starting on their ICS car until after Long Beach. If I were to guess, they'll first appear at Indy, and will continue the season after that.

[gofastandwynn]

I believe that they announced they would not be starting on their ICS car until after Long Beach. If I were to guess, they'll first appear at Indy, and will continue the season after that.

TSO reported that they will skip Sebring and test at Homestead on Monday.

[gofastandwynn]

from what i hear GRahal will be #2 and Wilson will be #6

Actually it will be 02 and 06...

[BobGarage]

brunos just gone out on track for the first time.

3 hours in just three drivers have been out and logged just 32 laps between them.

serviva fastest so far. he's done just 20 laps and his best time is 55.719

[Chamoo]

TSO reported that they will skip Sebring and test at Homestead on Monday.

Yes, they announced their program a little bit late, figured HVM wouldn't be able to make this test.

[bblocker68]

brunos just gone out on track for the first time.

3 hours in just three drivers have been out and logged just 32 laps between them.

serviva fastest so far. he's done just 20 laps and his best time is 55.719

Kanaan's best was a 52.860 / 113.732 MPH. Something to shoot for. If Servia or anyone can hit the 53's/low 54's. I think they'd be in good shape, as far as lapping in a new and unfamilliar car. It's the oval's I'm more concerned about.

[bblocker68]

Red Flag. I wish there was a dialogue/news box on T&S.

[BobGarage]

Red Flag. I wish there was a dialogue/news box on T&S.

its been red for about 45 minutes now. any ideas whats going on?

[gofastandwynn]

its been red for about 45 minutes now. any ideas whats going on?

Lunch break.

Some photos so far:

http://www.indycar.com/multimedia/build_photo.php?photo_id=65512&size=med&time=1.0802468312576958

http://www.indycar.com/multimedia/build_photo.php?photo_id=65515&size=med&time=0.6180865385660259

http://www.indycar.com/multimedia/build_photo.php?photo_id=65518&size=med&time=2.7660304487862817

[Chamoo]

Ignore.

[V12]

Thanks for the pics, interesting the second KV car has changed from #32 (on the garage pic posted this morning) to #5 (out on the track!)

[jwhite9185]

Actually it will be 02 and 06...

I think its a bit stupid when they do that - its essentially the same as 2 and 6 anyway! Just go for something that isnt taken. Like numbers 1 and 12 for example! Im sure the IRL dont have the rule that the champion doesnt have to run number 1, as Andretti ran it a few years back at indy.

[bblocker68]

Servia topping the charts at 54.124. Not too shabby, shaking out a new car.

[eman resu]

Man those things are ugly. Hope the racing is at least decent.

[PTCrash3]

Sad to see only six cars testing. This "merger" looks like a bust to me. By next year the remaining CC teams will probably muscle out some small ICS teams and we'll be back at 20-21 cars.

No PT, no Minardi, Walker, Forsythe, RSKTS, PCM, RuSport gone. This isn't what I expected, that's for sure

db :rolleyes:

[gofastandwynn]

I think its a bit stupid when they do that - its essentially the same as 2 and 6 anyway! Just go for something that isnt taken. Like numbers 1 and 12 for example! Im sure the IRL dont have the rule that the champion doesnt have to run number 1, as Andretti ran it a few years back at indy.

Actually they do have the #1 rule, but it goes to the car owner instead of the driver. So when Andretti ran #1 at Indy 2 years ago it was because Wheldon won the championship the year before. So, since Dario was last years champion AGR has the right to car #1 this year. The last defending champion to run the #1 was Scott Dixon I believe.

[Hoop-98]

Servia topping the charts at 54.124. Not too shabby, shaking out a new car.

yes that's a very good time this early, IMO. Hard to say what the track is like rubber wise because of the 12 hrs being much different compounds.

rh

[gofastandwynn]

Sad to see only six cars testing. This "merger" looks like a bust to me. By next year the remaining CC teams will probably muscle out some small ICS teams and we'll be back at 20-21 cars.

No PT, no Minardi, Walker, Forsythe, RSKTS, PCM, RuSport gone. This isn't what I expected, that's for sure

db :rolleyes:

Should be 10-11 at Homestead with NHL and maybe HVM showing up along with Roth Racing.

[EagleEye]

Sad to see only six cars testing. This "merger" looks like a bust to me. By next year the remaining CC teams will probably muscle out some small ICS teams and we'll be back at 20-21 cars.

No PT, no Minardi, Walker, Forsythe, RSKTS, PCM, RuSport gone. This isn't what I expected, that's for sure

db :rolleyes:

There is more interest in open wheel racing now, than in any time since 97/98. I expect Walker, and others could be back next year, as sponsors start coming out. TV ratings were up a bit for the IRL last year, though they will need some significant increaes to really get things going.

I think we're in for 24-26 cars for the next few years.

[Cart750hp]

first photo... KVRT cars...

Servia has "Champ Car Orange" on the roll hoop/air intake.

Power green and yellow as expected

http://www.indycar.com/news/2008/series/images/testing-cvr-03192008.jpg

cars take to the track in 5 minutes time...

Sorry Bob but I think the driver in that pic is Bruno Junqeira. By looking at the helmet, it's gotta be Bruno. Servia has a helmet with the color of his flag; something orange and red on it.

I could be wrong....

[BobGarage]

Sorry Bob but I think the driver in that pic is Bruno Junqeira. By looking at the helmet, it's gotta be Bruno. Servia has a helmet with the color of his flag; something orange and red on it.

I could be wrong....

i linked it from indycar.com and they keep changing the picture! When i originally posted the link it was of the KVRT cars by the hauler....

and your right, it is Bruno now in the current picture.

[BobGarage]

power is currently fastest with a 53.468.

Not bad for the first day. Thats would put him around the same time as Ryan Hunter-reay had overall for his sebring test. And considerably faster than ryan was on day 1 of his test!

In fact the time is faster than any of the current teams went on day 1 of their 4 day test at sebring.

[SarahFan]

6 1/2 hours into the test and 1/2 the field hasn't been out ........things that make you go hmmm

[BobGarage]

6 1/2 hours into the test and 1/2 the field hasn't been out ........things that make you go hmmm

or is there a problem with the timing and scoring as there is one shot of the opes prime car (i assume perera, or maybe bernoldi) about to leave pit lane on indycar.com?

[SarahFan]

or is there a problem with the timing and scoring as there is one shot of the opes prime car (i assume perera, or maybe bernoldi) about to leave pit lane on indycar.com?

no transponders?

[weeflyonthewall]

January's testing times were much better. But then, so were the cars.

Pos Driver Team Time
1. Franck Perera Conquest Racing 49.806
2. Graham Rahal Newman/Haas/Lanigan Racing 49.950
3. Alex Tagliani PKV Racing 50.173
4. Oriol Servia PKV Racing 50.178
5. Justin Wilson Newman/Haas/Lanigan Racing 50.207
6. Franck Montagny Forsythe/Pettit Racing 50.209
7. Bruno Junqueira Dale Coyne Racing 50.507
8. Alex Figge Pacific Coast Motorsports 50.521
9. Simon Pagenaud Conquest Racing 50.702
10. Enrique Bernoldi Rocketsports Racing 50.714
11. Paul Tracy Forsythe/Pettit Racing 50.732
12. David Martinez Pacific Coast Motorsports 50.736
13. Ernesto Viso Minardi Team USA 50.800
14. Mario Moraes Dale Coyne Racing 50.930

[BobGarage]

Powers just done s 52.971

which would have put him 5th overall at the first Sebring test.

looks like he's settling into the car nicely!!!

[Hoop-98]

January's testing times were much better. But then, so were the cars.

Pos Driver Team Time
1. Franck Perera Conquest Racing 49.806
2. Graham Rahal Newman/Haas/Lanigan Racing 49.950
3. Alex Tagliani PKV Racing 50.173
4. Oriol Servia PKV Racing 50.178
5. Justin Wilson Newman/Haas/Lanigan Racing 50.207
6. Franck Montagny Forsythe/Pettit Racing 50.209
7. Bruno Junqueira Dale Coyne Racing 50.507
8. Alex Figge Pacific Coast Motorsports 50.521
9. Simon Pagenaud Conquest Racing 50.702
10. Enrique Bernoldi Rocketsports Racing 50.714
11. Paul Tracy Forsythe/Pettit Racing 50.732
12. David Martinez Pacific Coast Motorsports 50.736
13. Ernesto Viso Minardi Team USA 50.800
14. Mario Moraes Dale Coyne Racing 50.930

Well forr sure the high downforce DP01 is much easier to drive thru the twisties flat out.

rh

[jimispeed]

Just frick'n depressing.....

[LuigiStone]

I'd like to see Formula 1 cars compared to these DP01 times.

[BobGarage]

todays test times:-

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/5773/1903op1.jpg

[BobGarage]

not bad times from their first day of testing.
bernoldi only got 4 laps. right at the end of the session.

Powers time would have had him 5th overall when comparing with all 4 days worth of times from the main irl teams sebring test.

Brunos time is faster than marcos overall time for the previous sebring test too.

[Hoop-98]

9-24-07, wow what dogs those dpo1's are lol :)
Unofficial Lap Times for September 24, 2007
1. Sebastien Bourdais 52.15 seconds
2. Bruno Junqueira 52.18
3. Oriol Servia 52.31
4. Alex Figge 52.31
5. Neel Jani 52.38
6. Mario Dominguez 52.41
7. Tristan Gommendy 52.45
8. Will Power 52.51
9. Simon Pagenaud 52.52
10. Graham Rahal 52.96
11. David Martinez 52.97
12. Katherine Legge 53.04
13. James Winslow 55.66

Will Power is off what .4? Man those dallarras .....



rh

[pits4me]

There is more interest in open wheel racing now, than in any time since 97/98. I expect Walker, and others could be back next year, as sponsors start coming out. TV ratings were up a bit for the IRL last year, though they will need some significant increaes to really get things going.

I think we're in for 24-26 cars for the next few years.

I've been hearing some CC team owners would prefer to wait until the new chassis is introduced and a committment to less oval racing further demonstrated. A few are hard core street & road racers and looking to follow Penske, Rahal and AGR to the ALMS.

[garyshell]

Just frick'n depressing.....


What is so depressing about this? They are frick'n TEST times for god's sake. The first damn test.

Gary

[jimispeed]

What is so depressing about this? They are frick'n TEST times for god's sake. The first damn test.

Gary

Sorry,

It's just not easy for me to see these cars, and view these times. I guess I'm just not ready. It's just such a step down for me as far as what I liked about what it was before.

I'll just be quiet for a while, and let you enjoy it......

[nanders]

Sorry,

It's just not easy for me to see these cars, and view these times. I guess I'm just not ready. It's just such a step down for me as far as what I liked about what it was before.

I'll just be quiet for a while, and let you enjoy it......

Jimi there are four cars that have CCWS orange on them. Think they remember? They're thinking about you ... and by that I mean crappy's which you kinda are.

[grungex]

Nice try:


Final combined times from 2008 Sebring Champ Car open test

Pos Driver name No/Team Lap time MPH
1 Franck Perera #24 Conquest Racing 49.806 seconds 120.636 mph
2 Graham Rahal #2 Newman/Haas/Lanigan Racing 49.950 seconds 120.288 mph
3 Alex Tagliani #21 PKV Racing 50.173 seconds 119.754 mph
4 Oriol Servia #22 PKV Racing 50.178 seconds 119.742 mph
5 Justin Wilson #1 Newman/Haas/Lanigan Racing 50.207 seconds 119.673 mph
6 Franck Montagny #7 Forsythe/Pettit Racing 50.209 seconds 119.668 mph
7 Bruno Junqueira #19 Dale Coyne Racing 50.507 seconds 118.962 mph
8 Alex Figge 29 Pacific Coast Motorsports 50.521 seconds 118.929 mph
9 Simon Pagenaud #34 Conquest Racing 50.702 seconds 118.504 mph
10 Enrique Bernoldi #8 Rocketsports Racing 50.714 seconds 118.476 mph
11 Paul Tracy #3 Forsythe/Pettit Racing 50.732 seconds 118.434 mph
12 David Martinez #28 Pacific Coast Motorsports 50.736 seconds 118.425 mph
13 Ernesto Viso #4 Minardi Team USA 50.800 seconds 118.276 mph
14 Mario Moraes #11 Dale Coyne Racing 50.930 seconds 117.974 mph
9-24-07, wow what dogs those dpo1's are lol :)
Unofficial Lap Times for September 24, 2007
1. Sebastien Bourdais 52.15 seconds
2. Bruno Junqueira 52.18
3. Oriol Servia 52.31
4. Alex Figge 52.31
5. Neel Jani 52.38
6. Mario Dominguez 52.41
7. Tristan Gommendy 52.45
8. Will Power 52.51
9. Simon Pagenaud 52.52
10. Graham Rahal 52.96
11. David Martinez 52.97
12. Katherine Legge 53.04
13. James Winslow 55.66

Will Power is off what .4? Man those dallarras .....

[Phoenixent]

Anyone notice that they were run on Bridgestone tires instead of Firestone's? I know it's the same tires just different names.

Just strange seeing Bridgestones on a Dallara.

[Mad_Hatter]

somebody posted it on one of the photos posted on indycardotcom i think only one of them ran bridgestones(yes they're the same, I think)

[Phoenixent]

somebody posted it on one of the photos posted on indycardotcom i think only one of them ran bridgestones(yes they're the same, I think)

Servia, Bruno and Bernoldi, cars had them on today. Must be DP01 sets left over.

[ROBHARRIS]

I'd like to see Formula 1 cars compared to these DP01 times.

That is exactly the problem. F1 cars budgets are about 50 times more than the DP01, yet they run only slightly faster. The crapwagon costs are slightly more than the DP01, yet they run slightly slower than the DP01. So as a paying fan, why would I support this series (meaning, by actually buying a ticket for a race) when a simple solution as developing the DP01 for ovals could be accomplished within a year for less money than their current car, and alot of the teams already own this future car. Why waste all the money that was spend on developing the DP01, why not use what's already been developed and give the fans what they want next year. The DP01 has already proven that it's racy, cars can run closer together in dirty air which gives a great show on road and street courses, and it's cheaper to buy then the curreny crapwagon and is a nicer looking car to look at. The DP01 is a brand new car, it didn't get obsolete over night.

[-Helix-]

That is exactly the problem. F1 cars budgets are about 50 times more than the DP01, yet they run only slightly faster. The crapwagon costs are slightly more than the DP01, yet they run slightly slower than the DP01. So as a paying fan, why would I support this series (meaning, by actually buying a ticket for a race) when a simple solution as developing the DP01 for ovals could be accomplished within a year for less money than their current car, and alot of the teams already own this future car. Why waste all the money that was spend on developing the DP01, why not use what's already been developed and give the fans what they want next year. The DP01 has already proven that it's racy, cars can run closer together in dirty air which gives a great show on road and street courses, and it's cheaper to buy then the curreny crapwagon and is a nicer looking car to look at. The DP01 is a brand new car, it didn't get obsolete over night.

Actually the DP-01 was faster than F1 at Laguna Seca. I guess F1 isn't worth spending money on either as they obviously run second rate machines. :rolleyes:

Seriously whats with the obsession with having cars that are a few seconds faster? Race cars are race cars. If you're just going to whine and complain for no reason, fine. **** or get off the pot already.

[DBell]

Actually the DP-01 was faster than F1 at Laguna Seca.

Yes, but not a very sound comparison. Only a Toyota in a demonstration run to compare it to. If F1 had a race or a test session at LS I'm sure faster times would've been set. At Montreal in the Lola the lap times were about 6 seconds apart, with F1 being faster. With it's heavy braking zones, that track probably favors an F1 car more than LS would. The Lola and DP01 were pretty close to each other in lap times with the Lola times still faster at some tracks.

[ROBHARRIS]

isn't that the point of racing, to go faster than the next guy. why are most IRL fans so satisfied with this old, slow, ugly car when there is a new model that cheaper and faster than this one and made in the United States. This is not about IRL against ChampCar, this is about racing.

[ShiftingGears]

isn't that the point of racing, to go faster than the next guy. why are most IRL fans so satisfied with this old, slow, ugly car when there is a new model that cheaper and faster than this one and made in the United States. This is not about IRL against ChampCar, this is about racing.

Who cares? If the cars jitter around under braking and get sideways, they'll look faster anyway.

If the IRL wanted to be the fastest theyd have a billion litre engines with 20 turbos each and 8 tyres each with about 30 wings.

[ROBHARRIS]

the question I have to the people on this site is--how many of you have ever seen a race live??????????? Because if you have ever seen these cars live, you wouldn't be making some of these stupid remarks about the cars, you would truly understand what this is about!!!!!!!!!!

[Civic]

I've been to Champ Car/IRL events at Fontana, IRL at Sonoma, Champ Car at Long Beach, Las Vegas, and Chicago.

[F1boat]

I think that the Dallara's look more "Indy" than the Panoz. The Panoz is a handsome car, but to me it is too much like F1 and GP 2. Sadly, I liked the old Reynard cars from CART more than the current IRL Dallara cars.

[Hoop-98]

Nice try:


Final combined times from 2008 Sebring Champ Car open test

Pos Driver name No/Team Lap time MPH
1 Franck Perera #24 Conquest Racing 49.806 seconds 120.636 mph
2 Graham Rahal #2 Newman/Haas/Lanigan Racing 49.950 seconds 120.288 mph
3 Alex Tagliani #21 PKV Racing 50.173 seconds 119.754 mph
4 Oriol Servia #22 PKV Racing 50.178 seconds 119.742 mph
5 Justin Wilson #1 Newman/Haas/Lanigan Racing 50.207 seconds 119.673 mph
6 Franck Montagny #7 Forsythe/Pettit Racing 50.209 seconds 119.668 mph
7 Bruno Junqueira #19 Dale Coyne Racing 50.507 seconds 118.962 mph
8 Alex Figge 29 Pacific Coast Motorsports 50.521 seconds 118.929 mph
9 Simon Pagenaud #34 Conquest Racing 50.702 seconds 118.504 mph
10 Enrique Bernoldi #8 Rocketsports Racing 50.714 seconds 118.476 mph
11 Paul Tracy #3 Forsythe/Pettit Racing 50.732 seconds 118.434 mph
12 David Martinez #28 Pacific Coast Motorsports 50.736 seconds 118.425 mph
13 Ernesto Viso #4 Minardi Team USA 50.800 seconds 118.276 mph
14 Mario Moraes #11 Dale Coyne Racing 50.930 seconds 117.974 mph

wow, you mean under different conditions the same car on the same track can be off 2 seconds!! :)

Will Power -- #8 Aussie Vineyards - Team Australia Honda/Dallara/Firestone

"It was good to go run around today and get back into form, because I haven't driven for five or six months -- since Mexico City," said Power, who last drove a car in the 2007 Champ Car season finale in Mexico City, where he placed second.

"It's good for driver fitness. It's really good to have a run like this before I get on the Homestead oval, which I've never run at before.

"(The car) is pretty similar to the Champ Car. They run on the same tyre; similar weight, similar wheel base, a little less horsepower and not as much grip, but it's a car and therefore you try to make it go as quick as you can.

"The team is great to work with and they've done an outstanding job to get us to this point today. I'm glad I could put some smiles on their faces today.

"We will look to learn a lot more tomorrow and then it's off to Homestead to begin learning the ovals and sorting the car for the season opener."

rh

[RJL25]

i REALLY like the paint scheme of the no.5 KV racing car, i also think that the efforts by a number of teams to use champcar colours, particularly orange, in their paint schemes is a really nice touch for the fans of champcar who clearly, based on some of these posts, are struggling to come to terms with the new series... please hang in there! It really will be better in the long run!!!

[gofastandwynn]

Anyone notice that they were run on Bridgestone tires instead of Firestone's? I know it's the same tires just different names.

Just strange seeing Bridgestones on a Dallara.

They said were just using up the remaining Bridgestones they had in inventory.

[RJL25]

They said were just using up the remaining Bridgestones they had in inventory.

and they would have only been using them for shake down runs, they wouldn't have used them for set up testing because obviously the results would not be relevant

[gofastandwynn]

and they would have only been using them for shake down runs, they wouldn't have used them for set up testing because obviously the results would not be relevant

The tires are the same, the just have different branding on the sidewalls. If you look in the background of some of the photos, you see tire Firestone tire trailers

http://www.indycar.com/multimedia/build_photo.php?photo_id=65535&size=med&time=1.9818102167919278

And if you subscribed to TSO they talked about this already.

[RJL25]

the compounds are different, actually

remember champcar had the option tyre and the normal tyre, the IRL does not

[bblocker68]

i REALLY like the paint scheme of the no.5 KV racing car, i also think that the efforts by a number of teams to use champcar colours, particularly orange, in their paint schemes is a really nice touch for the fans of champcar who clearly, based on some of these posts, are struggling to come to terms with the new series... please hang in there! It really will be better in the long run!!!

+1

My buddies on other forums are vowing not to watch any races this year. I hope they can come to grips with this and think of it as a proactive move. If this were a year ago, I'd probably feel the same way, but I saw the writing on the wall and finally started pulling for a merger last summer.

I see this as CanAm folding into CART back in the day, not a 50/50 proposal. I feel bad for Champcar fans trying to make all sorts of demands. I am a Champcar fan 100%, but I think I may have a better grasp of the "big picture" than some of the die-hard's. I am just glad about the teams that will come over and compete, so I can have teams to root for. I will finally be a NHL fan, lol. It will be fun to pull for Champcar teams. They are like siblings to me. Easy to criticize from my end, but I will fight for them 100% when "outsiders" talk down about them. This season is going to be fun, ESPECIALLY WITH A FULL FIELD OF CARS.

I truley believe if you dont adapt and overcome, you will become extinct.

It took me awhile, but I got passed it. I hope we all can one day.

[RJL25]

one of the best posts i've ever seen on these forums blocker! mate i'm lookin forward to waking up far too early in the morning to watch the races live, cheering for my aussie boys and failing that, hoping that a champcar team can take the flag, theres more excitement for me coming into this season then i have felt for a very long time as a champcar fan. This time of year as a champcar fan is usually all about "i wonder if this is gonna be a good year... how many events are going to be cancelled.. how many teams are gonna go under... how many drivers are gonna loose a drive due to no sponsorship..." But not this time! its all good!

[nanders]

"(The car) is pretty similar to the Champ Car. They run on the same tyre; similar weight, similar wheel base, a little less horsepower and not as much grip, but it's a car and therefore you try to make it go as quick as you can.

Pull rod rather then push rod front suspension.

[nigelred5]

I'm pretty sure Dallara went to that as a packaging issue to get the CG down and to decrease frontal area as the car was designed as a 100% oval track car. I'd be suprised if they didn't revert to a pushrod setup if they are a player in 2010 which I fully expect them to be. They are the only one of the original suppliers from the original IRL spec.

[garyshell]

isn't that the point of racing, to go faster than the next guy. why are most IRL fans so satisfied with this old, slow, ugly car when there is a new model that cheaper and faster than this one and made in the United States. This is not about IRL against ChampCar, this is about racing.

Do you honestly think that there is any way that the IRL could switch to the DP01 even if they wanted to? How many DP01 chassis even exist? And how many would be needed for a full year in the ICS? What's that you say? Just let some of the teams have them and the old teams can run the Dallar? Well lets assume your calculations are correct and the DP01 is much faster and cheaper to run. How long do you think it would be before the folks who would be, under your scneario, FORCED to run a more expensive less competitive car start beating down "...king George's" door.

The point of racing is to go faster than the next guy in the same series. It most assuredly is not to go faster than some guy in another series. Why are folks "satisfied" with this car? Because it is the car available, plain and simple. I don't really like the look of the car either, but I am not going to let that stop me from watching the DRIVERS. You remember drivers, right? They are the folks driving the cars. The very same folks that CCWS forgot that they were supposed to be promoting to garner some fan support. Instead the BONEHEADS decided to promote a chassis. Yeah, that's the ticket... lets promote a chassis, the advertisers/sponsors will love having pictures of the chassis in their ads or off track apperances. (You remember sponsor off track appearances don't you? CCWS seemed to forget them.) We don't need to worry about those pesky PEOPLE that drive the cars. No, fans and sponsors don't want to associate themselves with PEOPLE. They want to associate with a chassis. :eek:

Gary

[Hoop-98]

Pull rod rather then push rod front suspension.

Yes, because they don't have a high nose they can run the pull-rod to lower the CG and improve handling aero over the frot suspension, one of the reasons Dallaras became the car of choice. But I don't think it is too big an advantage for the Dallara.

The major difference is power of course and the DP01 has about 10 pct more downforce.

From PTC: http://www.imakenews.com/ptcexpress/e_article000266040.cfm

When racecars whiz across the finish line, it’s usually the winning driver that gets all the praise. But sometimes the glory can come from knowing why drivers are able to secure the win. Engineers at Dallara Automobili S.p.a. in Parma, Italy, would agree. Behind the scenes, they are always devising new methods to make their racecars milli-seconds faster, ultimately contributing to a win.



Building Indy Racing League (IRL) cars since the league’s inception in 1997, Dallara designs cars that are renown across the globe for their advanced design and engineering, facets that continually raise the benchmarks for safety, speed, and performance at the world’s most prestigious racetracks.



Dallara’s mission is to constantly improve the aerodynamics, frame, and structure of its racecars, to ensure they remain a top choice for IRL race teams worldwide. This means each component of an auto racing chassis must be carefully designed to optimize overall performance.



Revisiting the past. In the late 1980’s, racecar designers abandoned a pull-rod suspension for a push-rod suspension. This meant that all of the road loads were transferred to the spring and dampers through a very stiff beam (the push-rod) that connected the lower end of the upright to the top of the monocoque (the main chassis structure). This made it very easy to change a spring or a damper setting in a design, and also introduced what became known as “high nose” cars.



In 2002, Dallara engineers considered returning to the pull-rod suspension model. There was evidence that the pull-rod suspension may have certain advantages over the push-rod. Namely, the pull-rod layout moves the mass of the front suspension downward, which is always a benefit for racecars. In addition, wind tunnel and Computational Fluid Dynamics engineers thought the pull-rod layout would fit nicely with the bodywork of the car.



For Dallara, the main challenge involved in making this change was to engineer the pull-rod style suspension in a way that still included a car’s key features. They needed to keep the cars simple, light, and stiff, while passing rigorous front crash tests and remaining cost effective. What’s more, Dallara engineers found that a big cut out at the bottom of the tub that houses the spring and damper assemblies could potentially weaken the main chassis structure serving as a crack generator during an impact; the pull-rod suspension model had revealed a weakness in the monocoque, an area that is highly stressed during crash tests.

rh

[garyshell]

+1

My buddies on other forums are vowing not to watch any races this year. I hope they can come to grips with this and think of it as a proactive move. If this were a year ago, I'd probably feel the same way, but I saw the writing on the wall and finally started pulling for a merger last summer.

I see this as CanAm folding into CART back in the day, not a 50/50 proposal. I feel bad for Champcar fans trying to make all sorts of demands. I am a Champcar fan 100%, but I think I may have a better grasp of the "big picture" than some of the die-hard's. I am just glad about the teams that will come over and compete, so I can have teams to root for. I will finally be a NHL fan, lol. It will be fun to pull for Champcar teams. They are like siblings to me. Easy to criticize from my end, but I will fight for them 100% when "outsiders" talk down about them. This season is going to be fun, ESPECIALLY WITH A FULL FIELD OF CARS.

I truley believe if you dont adapt and overcome, you will become extinct.

It took me awhile, but I got passed it. I hope we all can one day.


Can I get an AMEN, brothers and sisters? Amen, AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!

Gary

[BobGarage]

day 2 got started just over half an hour ago.

Power fastest so far today with a 54.2819.

Timing and Scoring isn't lising the 2 DCR cars today. Anyone any ideas why?

[cartpix]

Do you honestly think that there is any way that the IRL could switch to the DP01 even if they wanted to?

How come we can't just run the Ferarri F1 car, in IRL. It's much faster & much prettier. After all it is a normally asperated engine...

GOOD LORD!!!!!!!!!!!! This DP01 is prettier, faster, cheaper, makes Julian Fries, & is a great desert topping is driving me NUTS! Suck up and watch it or don't!

Here's the facts: CC is gone. They will NOT be racing the DP01 in the IRL. Accept it. It can't be changed. Or move on. It's simple.

Jeff

[BobGarage]

day 2 got started just over half an hour ago.

Power fastest so far today with a 54.2819.

Timing and Scoring isn't lising the 2 DCR cars today. Anyone any ideas why?

ignore me, the 2 DCR cars have now appeared.

[bblocker68]

Cheers RJ, Gary and all of us that are floating on this questionable boat. It's gonna be one Hell of a ride.

Let's get this party started!

Off to T&S............

[nanders]

Yes, because they don't have a high nose they can run the pull-rod to lower the CG and improve handling aero over the frot suspension, one of the reasons Dallaras became the car of choice. But I don't think it is too big an advantage for the Dallara.

The major difference is power of course and the DP01 has about 10 pct more downforce.

From PTC: http://www.imakenews.com/ptcexpress/e_article000266040.cfm

Pretty cool Hoopty.

[grungex]

Nice try again -- YOU were the one that chose to make the comparison in the first place, and then tried to make it seem like the difference was near-nonexistent. I'd say the conditions between this years tests were more likely to be similar than the September vs. March example you chose to support your comments.


wow, you mean under different conditions the same car on the same track can be off 2 seconds!!

[garyshell]

January's testing times were much better. But then, so were the cars.

Pos Driver Team Time
1. Franck Perera Conquest Racing 49.806
2. Graham Rahal Newman/Haas/Lanigan Racing 49.950
3. Alex Tagliani PKV Racing 50.173



Well forr sure the high downforce DP01 is much easier to drive thru the twisties flat out.

rh


9-24-07, wow what dogs those dpo1's are lol :)
Unofficial Lap Times for September 24, 2007
1. Sebastien Bourdais 52.15 seconds
2. Bruno Junqueira 52.18
3. Oriol Servia 52.31

Will Power is off what .4? Man those dallarras .....

rh


Nice try:


Final combined times from 2008 Sebring Champ Car open test

Pos Driver name No/Team Lap time MPH
1 Franck Perera #24 Conquest Racing 49.806 seconds 120.636 mph
2 Graham Rahal #2 Newman/Haas/Lanigan Racing 49.950 seconds 120.288 mph
3 Alex Tagliani #21 PKV Racing 50.173 seconds 119.754 mph



wow, you mean under different conditions the same car on the same track can be off 2 seconds!! :)


rh


Nice try again -- YOU were the one that chose to make the comparison in the first place, and then tried to make it seem like the difference was near-nonexistent. I'd say the conditions between this years tests were more likely to be similar than the September vs. March example you chose to support your comments.

No, he was NOT, see above for the specifics of the "comparison". These quotes are listed in order of when they were posted.

(I shortened the lists to the top three to make this more brief.)

Gary

[grungex]

I missed the first post, sorry. I was addresssing his .4 difference post, which is quite misleading, but whatever makes you happy..

[garyshell]

Nice try again -- YOU were the one that chose to make the comparison in the first place,


I missed the first post, sorry. I was addresssing his .4 difference post, which is quite misleading, but whatever makes you happy..


It's not a matter of what makes ME happy. You were quite emphatic that Hoop was the one who started the comparison. (See the emphasis you used in the quote above.) I was merely trying to correct that observation. No more. No less.

Gary

[-Helix-]

isn't that the point of racing, to go faster than the next guy. why are most IRL fans so satisfied with this old, slow, ugly car when there is a new model that cheaper and faster than this one and made in the United States. This is not about IRL against ChampCar, this is about racing.

I guess you don't know what a spec series is. You go faster in the IRL by driving better and making adjustments to the cars, not by getting a completely new car altogether.

If the point of racing series was to get the fastest cars possible why haven't we seen Ferraris in NASCAR yet?

The DP-01 may be cheaper, but it still costs money. Whereas all the teams already have Dallaras. So, in fact, it isn't really cheaper at all. Because nothing is cheaper than not paying anything.

[Breeze]

I think I may have to become a fan of this young Franck Perera fellow. He sure is acquitting himself well so far.

Does anyone know offhand if Franck Montagny will be driving? I know his prospects dwindled with the 'merge', but does he still have a shot?

edit: Just remembered he was testing with Forsythe. Not much hope for him at the moment. Shame, that.

[grungex]

It's not a matter of what makes ME happy. You were quite emphatic that Hoop was the one who started the comparison. (See the emphasis you used in the quote above.) I was merely trying to correct that observation. No more. No less.

Gary

Fine, and I believe that I already said I was sorry for missing the first post. Furthermore, you were in no way clear WHAT you were trying to correct, other than me.

That doesn't change the FACT that the data he posted is misleading, as it is quite obvious that in an actual apples-to-apples comparison the DP-01 is significantly quicker than the Dallara, despite his many posts trying to prove otherwise.

[Hoop-98]

How is that data more misleading than other posts which are of day 1 times vs day 3 times etc? Why not show day 1 test times of both, or find when there have been similar amounts of rubber down, etc.... That was my point. I have always maintained at Sebring the Dallara was going to be 2 - 2.5 seconds slower heads up, IMO.

rh

[grungex]

9-24-07, wow what dogs those dpo1's are lol :)
Unofficial Lap Times for September 24, 2007
1. Sebastien Bourdais 52.15 seconds
2. Bruno Junqueira 52.18
3. Oriol Servia 52.31
4. Alex Figge 52.31
5. Neel Jani 52.38
6. Mario Dominguez 52.41
7. Tristan Gommendy 52.45
8. Will Power 52.51
9. Simon Pagenaud 52.52
10. Graham Rahal 52.96
11. David Martinez 52.97
12. Katherine Legge 53.04
13. James Winslow 55.66

Will Power is off what .4? Man those dallarras .....



rh


How is that data more misleading than other posts which are of day 1 times vs day 3 times etc? Why not show day test times of both, or find when there have been similar amounts of rubber down, etc.... That was my point. I have always maintained at Sebring the Dallara was going to be 2 - 2.5 seconds slower heads up, IMO.

rh

Perhaps you should strive to be more clear then. Nothing in the first post I quote supports your second post.

[garyshell]

No, he was NOT, see above for the specifics of the "comparison". These quotes are listed in order of when they were posted.

(I shortened the lists to the top three to make this more brief.)

Gary


It's not a matter of what makes ME happy. You were quite emphatic that Hoop was the one who started the comparison. (See the emphasis you used in the quote above.) I was merely trying to correct that observation. No more. No less.

Gary


Fine, and I believe that I already said I was sorry for missing the first post. Furthermore, you were in no way clear WHAT you were trying to correct, other than me.


Sorry, I am not sure how I could have been more clear when I said "He was not". You are taking this way more personally than intended. How can I correct your observation without you feeling I am correcting YOU? I am not being facetious here or trying to turn this into an argument, I am truly asking you this. How should I have worded it?

Gary

[anthonyvop]

9-24-07, wow what dogs those dpo1's are lol :)
Unofficial Lap Times for September 24, 2007
1. Sebastien Bourdais 52.15 seconds
2. Bruno Junqueira 52.18
3. Oriol Servia 52.31
4. Alex Figge 52.31
5. Neel Jani 52.38
6. Mario Dominguez 52.41
7. Tristan Gommendy 52.45
8. Will Power 52.51
9. Simon Pagenaud 52.52
10. Graham Rahal 52.96
11. David Martinez 52.97
12. Katherine Legge 53.04
13. James Winslow 55.66

Will Power is off what .4? Man those dallarras .....

rh
Nice try.
It was raining that day. I Know. I was there.

[BobGarage]

for those paying attention today.....

Oriol is currently fastest with a 52.703, which if he had tested with the other irl teams at sebring would have put him 3rd overall ahead of everyone except the penske drivers.

[grungex]

Sorry, I am not sure how I could have been more clear when I said "He was not". You are taking this way more personally than intended. How can I correct your observation without you feeling I am correcting YOU? I am not being facetious here or trying to turn this into an argument, I am truly asking you this. How should I have worded it?

Gary

I think our misunderstanding is because I was primarily focused on the data he was presenting and its implications, and you were focused on my erroneous statement that he brought up the comparison first. You saying "He was NOT" in reply to my entire post wasn't entirely clear to me, until your next reply. I now understand where you were coming from, and am okay with that. The question of who brought it up first is not, however, that important to me in the overall context.

Cheers!

[Breeze]

for those paying attention today.....

Oriol is currently fastest with a 52.703, which if he had tested with the other irl teams at sebring would have put him 3rd overall ahead of everyone except the penske drivers.
Thanks for trying to bring this thread back on topic BobG

[bblocker68]

Shame. Montagny is dead fast in any kind of car.

[Hoop-98]

Nice try.
It was raining that day. I Know. I was there.

Sarcasm is wasted eh, so do you disagree with my opinion that headsup the Dallara is off 2.5 seconds?

Actually it could be closer, given identical circumstance, but 2.5 was what it was.

I hink we have wore this out, good times by the guys today.

I think that the top 4-5 EX CC guys will be competitive right away (top 10s maybe top 5s with some lick who knows a win isn't impossible) on the road courses.

Even on the ovals I wouldn't count them out totally. I don't expect NHL to be backmarkers on any course.

jm2c

rh

[cwgn4]

http://s90032576.onlinehome.us/2008_irl-ccws_test/

[garyshell]

http://s90032576.onlinehome.us/2008_irl-ccws_test/


Nice photos. You know I don't mind the looks of the air box so much on the cars where it is painted in a contrasting color. Like on the PKV car for example. It actually looks better to me when it is NOT blended into the rest of the body work.

Gary