JYS has lost the plot

[Alfa Fan]

http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/160935-0/jys:_somebody_is_going_to_get_killed.html

“Somebody is going to get killed,” the 68-year-old insisted in an interview with the Daily Telegraph. “It has been 13 years and eleven months since the death of Ayrton Senna. It's like an air crash – you can't go on without something going wrong somewhere, and somebody will die. There will be even more accidents now traction control is gone, [and] it is going to be a big shock to this fraternity.”

Crazy. We've had one dramatic GP, and suddenly everyone's going to die. Australian GP was a good race, which quite a few incidents and mechanical failures, but nothing that merits this IMO.

[BDunnell]

He is absolutely right that we haven't seen the last of deaths in F1, and that we shouldn't be surprised when the next one occurs. To make the link between that and the end of traction control, though — I just don't get it.

[Tazio]

http://www.crash.net/motorsport/f1/news/160935-0/jys:_somebody_is_going_to_get_killed.html

“Somebody is going to get killed,” the 68-year-old insisted in an interview with the Daily Telegraph. “It has been 13 years and eleven months since the death of Ayrton Senna. It's like an air crash – you can't go on without something going wrong somewhere, and somebody will die. There will be even more accidents now traction control is gone, [and] it is going to be a big shock to this fraternity.”

Crazy. We've had one dramatic GP, and suddenly everyone's going to die. Australian GP was a good race, which quite a few incidents and mechanical failures, but nothing that merits this IMO.I think we should leave the worrying to people like jys! His opinion counts for quite a bit.
It will temper it with opposing views! I'm afraid that we will see races just as exciting in Tilke-Rings with less carnage,
giving Bernie and others ammunition to try to eliminate traditional venues like Monza and Canada!
The Glock bump was a good wake up call! All tracks need to be thoroughly
reassessed for these anomalies!

[mstillhere]

He is absolutely right that we haven't seen the last of deaths in F1, and that we shouldn't be surprised when the next one occurs. To make the link between that and the end of traction control, though — I just don't get it.

I feel that traction control was a good way that kept drivers safe.. This thing about people having more fun when they see car crashes (and maybe see people die) gives me the creeps.

[Shifter]

I feel that traction control was a good way that kept drivers safe.. This thing about people having more fun when they see car crashes (and maybe see people die) gives me the creeps.

I doubt anyone had much fun in the stands at Imola '94. In fact, some of them had to dodge flying wheels and suspension bits.

To me crashes are just drama in the story of the F1 season. Does anyone want to see F1 bumpercars championship? JYS had a good point in the seventies, but I wonder if his age made him lose sight of what it's like to be young and talented and wanting to push the car, up into the danger zone? In this modern era the risk is for the driver and the track marshals alone, which is more than can be said for some air shows, which JYS compares this to.

[Knock-on]

Can I suggest that you treat sites like Crash as you would a paper like the Sun or Sport ;)

The comments have obviously be sensationalised by such "journalists" but the original article is thought provoking and valid.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2008/03/18/smgars118.xml

Personally, I think Jackie makes some great points and is quite right when he says that banning traction control increases the chance of accidents but is not saying to re-introduce TC. He was making the point that someone with the pull that Lewis has, in his opinion, should join the GPDA. He also points out that Lewis is inexperienced which might be a reason for him not ;)

All in all, we have been lucky with avoiding fatalities since Roland and Ayrton and a lot of credit for this is down to the improvements in safety brought to bear by pressure from the GPDA. This is a dangerous sport and accidents happen. I think JS is advocating addressing this and encouraging the drivers to have input into mitigating their risk.

[Valve Bounce]

I think the more frightening accidents like Glock's and DC+Massa had nothing to do with Trax or lack of same.

[SGWilko]

Anyone who pretends that racing is safe, or that another fatality is impossible is a fool.

It takes only one freak accident (remember, Ayrton could easily have survived Imola) to cause a death.

Question is, is the lack of an active GPDA directly attributable to a lessening of safety in F1?

Didn't Max warn the GPDA off when complaining about Monza one year? Exactly how much influence does the GPDA have?

JYS is exactly right about the safety issue, I also think that, at some point, Lewis must join the GPDA, but when he is able to give 100%.

Can you imagine the vitriol on here if Lewis was in the GPDA and starts to make noises about 'this and that'? All the bashers would slaughter him. :rolleyes:

[Knock-on]

Can you imagine the vitriol on here if Lewis was in the GPDA and starts to make noises about 'this and that'? All the bashers would slaughter him. :rolleyes:

:laugh: ROTFPML :laugh:

You mean comments like:

"What an arrogant to$$er!!! He's only been in the series 1 year and thinks he knows it all. Probably Rons idea to help the McCheats slow down the Ferrari!!!"

:D

[ArrowsFA1]

Exactly how much influence does the GPDA have?
This is what Nigel Roebuck had to say in answer to my question on this very topic:
"Personally, I don't believe that the GPDA has ever - save on very rare occasions - had a great deal of influence in how things are done in F1. I think Jackie Stewart, as an individual, achieved far more than the drivers, as a collective body, ever have."

[SGWilko]

This is what Nigel Roebuck had to say in answer to my question on this very topic:

Arrows, now you know not to quote Nigel Roebuck on here.

He's British for a start - so the poor bloke is buggered straight away. Most on here refer to him as the 'cut and paste' man. ;)

But yes, that has reinforced what I always assumed, that the GPDA is a great idea on paper, but not really taken that seriously by the powers that be - Indy '05 is a perfect example.

[ShiftingGears]

Anyone who pretends that racing is safe, or that another fatality is impossible is a fool.

It takes only one freak accident (remember, Ayrton could easily have survived Imola) to cause a death.

Question is, is the lack of an active GPDA directly attributable to a lessening of safety in F1?

Didn't Max warn the GPDA off when complaining about Monza one year? Exactly how much influence does the GPDA have?

JYS is exactly right about the safety issue, I also think that, at some point, Lewis must join the GPDA, but when he is able to give 100%.

Can you imagine the vitriol on here if Lewis was in the GPDA and starts to make noises about 'this and that'? All the bashers would slaughter him. :rolleyes:

Well about Monza...

The GPDA were complaining about the gravel trap for the Lesmo chicane, despite the innovative safety barrier being placed there. Max said no, no, no and everyone got all angry about it. But the tarmac runoff was put there anyway. So they do have some influence, when, IMO, their influence makes mistakes like missing a chicane very very easy to correct. When its dry.

[maxu05]

F1 is dangerous :s hock: They should pay the drivers more money :p :

[CNR]

i think he is right motor sport is a crash waiting to happen and a crash that one may walk away from could kill another

V8 driver dies after Adelaide crash (http://news.theage.com.au/v8-driver-dies-after-adelaide-crash/20080225-1ujy.html)


Ashley Cooper, 27.
The father-of-two, from Ulladulla on the South Coast, died of brain and internal injuries sustained during a high-speed crash at Saturday's Clipsal 500 meeting in Adelaide.

[markabilly]

Glock's crash was an example of overlooking something very obvious and then after a similar crash in practice (which I did not see, so was it the same corner?) no body had enough brains to go out and bulldoze it flat.

I am no "track safety expert" and would miss many dangers, but that one was too obvious not to see way in advance.

Unfortunately speed creates momentum that will wreck the human body, such that there is a risk of serious injury.

In the time of JYS, the dangers were so high, that a driver never ever would have done to Massa what DC did. A driver never would have done what MS did to JV. Drivers like Senna would not have lasted more than a few races, because the key to survial was respect of the other driver and car, as wheel to wheel contact was likely to result in the serious injury or death to both drivers. Nevertheless, at that time, there was far more passing on the the track, no TC, no data gathering electornics and so forth, so driver skill was a premium need.


As it was, almost all of the serious or deadly crashes involved one car where something broke or where the driver lost control.

And I personally remember well, that after Clark's death, JYS became THE DRIVER that dominated because he was the best. And this was a time when the price of a mistake might cost a driver his life and the people he knew, died on a regular basis, so none of you youngsters should ever wonder about this man's courage and backbone.

But when he spoke out on safety, he caught much flak, yet he more than anyone or any group, managed to create a real safety conciousness and movement within racing that finally reduced and eliminated many deaths and serious injuries.

So show some respect, and realize he is only saying the obvious

[SGWilko]

Glock's crash was an example of overlooking something very obvious and then after a similar crash in practice (which I did not see, so was it the same corner?) no body had enough brains to go out and bulldoze it flat.

I am no "track safety expert" and would miss many dangers, but that one was too obvious not to see way in advance.

Unfortunately speed creates momentum that will wreck the human body, such that there is a risk of serious injury.

In the time of JYS, the dangers were so high, that a driver never ever would have done to Massa what DC did. A driver never would have done what MS did to JV. Drivers like Senna would not have lasted more than a few races, because the key to survial was respect of the other driver and car, as wheel to wheel contact was likely to result in the serious injury or death to both drivers. Nevertheless, at that time, there was far more passing on the the track, no TC, no data gathering electornics and so forth, so driver skill was a premium need.


As it was, almost all of the serious or deadly crashes involved one car where something broke or where the driver lost control.

And I personally remember well, that after Clark's death, JYS became THE DRIVER that dominated because he was the best. And this was a time when the price of a mistake might cost a driver his life and the people he knew, died on a regular basis, so none of you youngsters should ever wonder about this man's courage and backbone.

But when he spoke out on safety, he caught much flak, yet he more than anyone or any group, managed to create a real safety conciousness and movement within racing that finally reduced and eliminated many deaths and serious injuries.

So show some respect, and realize he is only saying the obvious

:up:

[BDunnell]

I feel that traction control was a good way that kept drivers safe.. This thing about people having more fun when they see car crashes (and maybe see people die) gives me the creeps.

I certainly don't subscribe to that view. All I was saying was that to blame, in advance of anything happening, the lack of TC for future fatal accidents seems a long way off the mark.

[BDunnell]

Glock's crash was an example of overlooking something very obvious and then after a similar crash in practice (which I did not see, so was it the same corner?) no body had enough brains to go out and bulldoze it flat.

I am no "track safety expert" and would miss many dangers, but that one was too obvious not to see way in advance.

Unfortunately speed creates momentum that will wreck the human body, such that there is a risk of serious injury.

In the time of JYS, the dangers were so high, that a driver never ever would have done to Massa what DC did. A driver never would have done what MS did to JV. Drivers like Senna would not have lasted more than a few races, because the key to survial was respect of the other driver and car, as wheel to wheel contact was likely to result in the serious injury or death to both drivers. Nevertheless, at that time, there was far more passing on the the track, no TC, no data gathering electornics and so forth, so driver skill was a premium need.


As it was, almost all of the serious or deadly crashes involved one car where something broke or where the driver lost control.

And I personally remember well, that after Clark's death, JYS became THE DRIVER that dominated because he was the best. And this was a time when the price of a mistake might cost a driver his life and the people he knew, died on a regular basis, so none of you youngsters should ever wonder about this man's courage and backbone.

But when he spoke out on safety, he caught much flak, yet he more than anyone or any group, managed to create a real safety conciousness and movement within racing that finally reduced and eliminated many deaths and serious injuries.

So show some respect, and realize he is only saying the obvious

I agree. :up:

I really hope my earlier comments didn't seem like an attack on Stewart's impeccable credentials in this regard. I was just pointing out the fact that the link with the TC ban, in my view, goes over the top. He is, as I said, absolutely right about the inevitability of future deaths in F1.

[Kevincal]

You know, thinking back on last year, there were many accidents that weren't really far off from being fatal. Kubica's obviously. Another foot or so to the right and he probably would have been killed. Kimi's shunt in practice where he went straight into the tire barriers and had a hurt neck. Lewi's shunt after the blown tire into the wall where he got out of the car and fell to his knees. The near beheading incident last year when the car slid over another (forget the drivers involved). Really when you think about it, we are lucky nobody died last year. There were some darn close calls. I also agree that the lack of TC makes it more dangerous. Look at Eau Rouge (spelling?) If you lose grip going full speed through that sucker, good luck surviving...

[Sleeper]

You know, thinking back on last year, there were many accidents that weren't really far off from being fatal. Kubica's obviously. Another foot or so to the right and he probably would have been killed. Kimi's shunt in practice where he went straight into the tire barriers and had a hurt neck. Lewi's shunt after the blown tire into the wall where he got out of the car and fell to his knees. The near beheading incident last year when the car slid over another (forget the drivers involved). Really when you think about it, we are lucky nobody died last year. There were some darn close calls. I also agree that the lack of TC makes it more dangerous. Look at Eau Rouge (spelling?) If you lose grip going full speed through that sucker, good luck surviving...
I agree with you regarding Kubica accident at Montreal and I think the fact that he was racing only three weeks later is a real testiment to how far F1 safety has come (but by no means any reason to stop now). Regarding Kimi and Lewis's shunts, Kimi's was bad but I dont think it was anything overly serious and Lewis's was nothing remarkable, he stumbled because of a bruised knee, but these two also show how far F1 safety has come for them not to raise too much of an eybrow. DC and Wurz's incident hilighted the need for more protection around the drivers head and thats something that has been changed for this year, with raised cockpit sides.

As for Eau Rouge comment, the cars are flat out there so TC has nothing to do with it, its all downforce.

[Rollo]

The absolute craziness of 2008 is that F1 will be running on a street course which they have never seen before and in the dark, conditions which they have never run before and are ill-equipped to do so.

When you consider that on average it rains in Singapore for more than half the number of days in the month every month and has a 50% chance of thunderstorm in September when the GP is, this is a recipe for disaster. What ****in moron thought that one up? Bernie Eccleston.

F1 needs someone like Stewart especially when the management has it's head wedged so far up it's own date that to clean it's teeth... eeewww

[cosmicpanda]

As for Eau Rouge comment, the cars are flat out there so TC has nothing to do with it, its all downforce.

If you watched the TV graphics last year, the cars were flat out through there but only with TC.

This year they will have to lift.

[markabilly]

You know, thinking back on last year, there were many accidents that weren't really far off from being fatal. Kubica's obviously. Another foot or so to the right and he probably would have been killed. Kimi's shunt in practice where he went straight into the tire barriers and had a hurt neck. Lewi's shunt after the blown tire into the wall where he got out of the car and fell to his knees. The near beheading incident last year when the car slid over another (forget the drivers involved). Really when you think about it, we are lucky nobody died last year. There were some darn close calls. I also agree that the lack of TC makes it more dangerous. Look at Eau Rouge (spelling?) If you lose grip going full speed through that sucker, good luck surviving...
Kim may well have died just like Earnhardt were it not for the Hahn's device that became mandatory, as Dale's crash at Daytona was really not much of an unusual accident.....and people were stunned much later by the news