Torro Rosso Up For Sale

[SGWilko]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/65874

Worst kept secret of the last 18 months?

[ioan]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/65874

Worst kept secret of the last 18 months?

Talk about jumping to conclusions, again!

As I read the article the reason is simple:

However, with the new Concorde Agreement meaning that customer cars will be outlawed from the start of 2010, Mateschitz has said there is no way he can continue operating his junior team.

I didn't know that the new Concorde article was signed 18 months ago.

Maybe they get some good results this season and find some financial backing that would allow them to develop their own chassis.

[markabilly]

Talk about jumping to conclusions, again!

As I read the article the reason is simple:


I didn't know that the new Concorde article was signed 18 months ago.

Maybe they get some good results this season and find some financial backing that would allow them to develop their own chassis.
Me neither (about concorde agreement)

And I did not know it would outlaw customer cars

And just who would buy a customer car team, knowing that it would be outlawed?
Not a real good investment for the future......unless the team was real cheap and you wanted to spend $$$$$$$$$$$to design and build----so much for keeping costs down

Perhaps this explains how the Mercedes number two team never really got started

[SGWilko]

Talk about jumping to conclusions, again!
.

There have been mumblings of STR being for sale, although denied, for quite some time now.

Indeed, the Spyker/Force India arbitration has been running for longer than 18 months, I believe.

[SGWilko]

And just who would buy a customer car team, knowing that it would be outlawed?

Someone who just wants to buy the place on the grid, but has the infrastructure in place to run their own chassis perhaps. If Diddi and Berger didn't think a sale was possible, they would not have it on the market.

[gloomyDAY]

This just keeps raising my speculation over the driver changes that are bound to happen in the Red Bull team. DC and Webber are going to be ditched and the Seb's will take over their duties in the coming years. Why? A good mixture of youth and experience, which is something that any up and coming F1 team needs.

[V12]

Do Toro Rosso still have the old Minardi factory in Faenza? The one that constructed Formula 1 cars for 20 years? I imagine the infrastructure to do so again would need some investment to get it up to scratch, but at least the infrastructure is there, unless there is something I have missed, like it all being sold off?

[jso1985]

I think that's the only factory they have.
Not that they build much anyway, just assemble the packages from Maranello and Milton Keynes...

[RaikkonenRules]

Me neither (about concorde agreement)

And I did not know it would outlaw customer cars

And just who would buy a customer car team, knowing that it would be outlawed?
Not a real good investment for the future......unless the team was real cheap and you wanted to spend $$$$$$$$$$$to design and build----so much for keeping costs down

Perhaps this explains how the Mercedes number two team never really got started

Out law customer cars. Aren't they suppose to be reducing costs. Sometimes I think they want low car counts.

How I long for the days of 30+ car counts. :(

[BDunnell]

I am almost willing to bet that the customer car issue will continue to rumble on when someone, as they surely will, seeks to buy STR. Then, the question will again arise as to what constitutes a new team, and therefore a new car.

[Roamy]

I am sure red bull had a reason for having two teams but I am not surprised that it is time for one to go. it appears that neweys snake oil is starting to work again and so that is where one should put their effort

[CNR]

2+2=5

Todt steps down as Ferrari CEO
http://www.f1network.net/main/s85/st112983.htm


March 9 2007
Speculation has begun to circulate about Michael Schumacher purchasing the Scuderia Toro Rosso Formula 1 team from owners Dietrich Mateschitz and Gerhard Berger.

[ioan]

I would like to see that happen.
However I think that MS ruled it out a few times already. He's not interested having a team of his own.

[Knock-on]

I would like to see that happen.
However I think that MS ruled it out a few times already. He's not interested having a team of his own.

And Bill Clinton never had sexual relations with "that" woman :laugh:

[ioan]

And Bill Clinton never had sexual relations with "that" woman :laugh:

I thought there is a substantial difference, in English grammar, between:

"Will not do it"
and
"Did not do it"

[SGWilko]

I would like to see that happen.
However I think that MS ruled it out a few times already. He's not interested having a team of his own.

It's a big commitment to take on, and the fallout from any potential failure (a la Prost) could be very damaging.

But, with the right people at the helm, and good financing in place (and now is not really a good time for finance) he could make a good job of it.

[Placid]

Would this be the opening that Rahal and Gurney they needed?

I recall that Rahal and Gurney were ready to become a US based team since Rahal was dropped from Jaguar (Now called Red Bull Racing) in 2004 but the deal never went through due to sponsors.

[truefan72]

I think a US outfit will buy the team

or a major manufacturer will get into it.

Audi/porsche/VW group
ford might make a play
or Mazda will finally reach the pantheon of racing after years of supporting everything else.

[Koz]

Fast Eddie Racing... :)
If MS bought the team, so many people would hate it. If it does not get results even MS fans would hate it.

[Tazio]

Would this be the opening that Rahal and Gurney they needed?

I recall that Rahal and Gurney were ready to become a US based team since Rahal was dropped from Jaguar (Now called Red Bull Racing) in 2004 but the deal never went through due to sponsors. It wouldn't hurt Graham Rahal open wheel prospects either!

[Valve Bounce]

We can talk and joke all we like, but the reality is that both Torro Rosso and Super Aguri will be lost to F1 in 2010. That is the sad truth.

[jso1985]

not sad if they're bought by teams that will not play "I am the B team"

[Valve Bounce]

not sad if they're bought by teams that will not play "I am the B team"


I just wonder how many teams will be in F1 after 2010. We could lose 3 or even 4 of the bottom teams, as their cars will be very outdated.

[BDunnell]

I just wonder how many teams will be in F1 after 2010. We could lose 3 or even 4 of the bottom teams, as their cars will be very outdated.

All the evidence at the moment, even with global economic problems looming, is that there are plenty of willing investors around.

[BDunnell]

I would like to see that happen.
However I think that MS ruled it out a few times already. He's not interested having a team of his own.

I would like to see it happen too. It would be fascinating. However, if I were him, I wouldn't touch the idea with a barge-pole. F1 is currently littered with manufacturers and companies who have entered the sport in fairly recent times and not really managed to break the stranglehold of those at the front. Would Schumacher want to have his name on, or be associated with, a team that wasn't winning for too long? F1 is also littered with great drivers (like Surtees, Fittipaldi and Prost) who have tried their hand at having their own teams and been found seriously wanting.

[Valve Bounce]

All the evidence at the moment, even with global economic problems looming, is that there are plenty of willing investors around.

I am not aware there are any investors interested in joining F1 if customer cars are not allowed.

[BDunnell]

I am not aware there are any investors interested in joining F1 if customer cars are not allowed.

I am still fairly positive that this will be straightened out. Will Bernie and the FIA be too enthusiastic about a grid of under 20 cars?

[AndyRAC]

Is Red Bull signing a sponsorship deal with Citroen connected to this story? Or a coincidence that both stories came out in the same week?

[Stuartf12007]

Team Schumacher.

[Placid]

I think a US outfit will buy the team

or a major manufacturer will get into it.

Audi/porsche/VW group
ford might make a play
or Mazda will finally reach the pantheon of racing after years of supporting everything else.
And what about Acura?
Will they join the fray?

I like to see that Eagle livery again.

[gloomyDAY]

Is Red Bull signing a sponsorship deal with Citroen connected to this story? Or a coincidence that both stories came out in the same week?I don't know! Good question.

Does anyone have an insight?

[Valve Bounce]

The problem after 2010 is whether teams like Super Aguri, Spyker/Force India/whoever is holding the can at the time, and Torro Rosso, will have to do with their old cars which will be ancient by then. For example, if Super Aguri had to go back to the Arrows, and the other guys the Minardi and Jaguar, they might as well not race in F1 in year 2011.

Bernie will be faced with a circus of only 16 animals, one of which will come dead last in quals or race each weekend. Now how could any one of the super build the car themselves teams afford to continue racing in F1 in last place like that?

[CNR]

http://www.planet-f1.co.za/story/0,18954,3213_3330535,00.html

Friday FIA press conference


Q: Is there any chance that this ruling that you have to make your own car will change?
GB: I don't know.

Q: Perhaps Martin and Mario, you can throw some light on that? Are you against that ruling?
Martin WHITMARSH: I think philosophically F1 should be about Constructors who design their own cars, but I think it is well-publicised that we take a very pragmatic view. When it looked a year ago as though you could have a customer car in F1 we worked very strongly with Prodrive. We checked back with the FIA before we embarked on that programme. Opinions changed during the course of the year otherwise possibly we would be here supporting a customer team ourselves, so we can't be too hypocritical about that. The reality is we need to have a strong grid in F1. We need independent teams like Gerhard's to survive and I think it is up to the bigger teams and to the automotive manufacturers and the FIA to work together to make sure that we have got a sport that can keep that many teams in it.

Q: Mario?
Mario THEISSEN: We were right away of the view last year that it would not be a good thing to have two classes of teams on the grid. Teams who go for victory and other teams who just support their number one team, so we are happy about the situation as it is now. Certainly, we support what Martin just said. We need the independent teams on the grid and we have to find a solution for them to be able to compete and to be in F1.


when you look at how long it took toyota to have there f1 car built and enter f1.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_F1


Toyota F1 is a Formula One (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One) team owned by Japanese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan) car manufacturer Toyota (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota) and based in Cologne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne), Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany). Toyota announced their plans to participate in F1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F1) in 1999 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999), and after extensive testing with their TF101 initial car, the team made their debut in 2002 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002).

[BDunnell]

Toyota did take a deliberately cautious, slow approach regarding their entry to F1, though, and I think it was the right one.

[Valve Bounce]

Toyota did take a deliberately cautious, slow approach regarding their entry to F1, though, and I think it was the right one.

The words SLOW and TOYOTA seem to harmonise quite well up till now. Maybe they will change the tune a little this year?

[BDunnell]

I hope so!

[Nikki Katz]

I think that this is a time of instability at the back of the grid because of the lack of clarity with the rules. It does look like as currently worded that Toro Rosso and Super Aguri will become illegal in a couple of years. It's not like the constant changing of hands of Jordan as they still design their own cars, albiet backmarkers, so should Force India lose interest then they could probably keep on going. People aren't going to want to buy Toro Rosso and Super Aguri as they'd probably have to design their own car in a couple of years and don't currently have the resources to do it. That's why I'm still not 100% sure that Super Aguri will last that much longer despite the rescue deal a few weeks ago.

[BDunnell]

I think that this is a time of instability at the back of the grid because of the lack of clarity with the rules. It does look like as currently worded that Toro Rosso and Super Aguri will become illegal in a couple of years. It's not like the constant changing of hands of Jordan as they still design their own cars, albiet backmarkers, so should Force India lose interest then they could probably keep on going. People aren't going to want to buy Toro Rosso and Super Aguri as they'd probably have to design their own car in a couple of years and don't currently have the resources to do it. That's why I'm still not 100% sure that Super Aguri will last that much longer despite the rescue deal a few weeks ago.

There is also the worry that some of the actual or potential new investors in F1 might not be as committed to sticking with F1 in the longer term, viewing it more as a short-term investment.

[Tazio]

I would like to see it happen too. It would be fascinating. However, if I were him, I wouldn't touch the idea with a barge-pole. F1 is currently littered with manufacturers and companies who have entered the sport in fairly recent times and not really managed to break the stranglehold of those at the front. Would Schumacher want to have his name on, or be associated with, a team that wasn't winning for too long? F1 is also littered with great drivers (like Surtees, Fittipaldi and Prost) who have tried their hand at having their own teams and been found seriously wanting.Mike is too busy having fun right now.
http://www.visordown.com/motorcyclenews/view/schumacher_scores_debut_podium_on_honda_fireblade/4044.html
Does he really need this kind of headache right now!!

[Tazio]

This thing is having a trickle up effect and is about to put a signifcant financial strain on Red Bull!
They need a resolution to this problem because Helmut Kohl ain't playing
when it comes to damages associated with revenue loss, due to S.A., and T.R.
being in violation of the Concorde Agreement.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns20182.html

We have heard that the deal on offer is for Toro Rosso, Force India and Super Aguri to have equal shares the money won in 2007. There is still discussion about 2008, although according to the FIA rules customer cars are allowed this year. The sporting regulations are usually a part of the Concorde Agreement, but as no-one can agree on whether or not the sport is still governed by a Concorde Agreement, it is all very complicated

[Valve Bounce]

Force India may be cutting their own throats by making monkeys of the other team. If they forced Torro Rosso and Supr Aguri out of F1, it will come as no surprise that Force India will be tail end Charlie in every quals, and last of the running cars in races. They will then get no prize money, and how long will that survive?