Battered in my own home!

[Hazell B]

After my mentioning the under age drinkers that plague our country, and specifically the young lad who lives two houses away from me, there's an update that needs a whole new thread .....

Last saturday night I was woken up by slamming car doors, voices shouting to each other and then loud music from the house two away. So, as the police never turn up when we ring them, I went to ask they shut the racket up and turn down the music. Long story short, three 6 foot something 17 to 19 year old drunkards who were in the house threatened me in the street. I am 5 foot 2 tall and not exactly all muscle, so I felt pretty threatened I can tell you.

In the end, I just swung for one of them, punching him before he could punch me. Being small, it wasn't much of a punch and he just laughed at me. Then I went back to bed.

Later they arrived at my front door, waking the whole street again with their shouting. When I stupidly answered all I got was a punch to the face that knocked me clean over. My partner went outside to shoo them off home and four of them knocked him to the ground and battered him, including one rather savage attck by a girl (of all things) while her male friends knocked him out. I won't say what she did to him, but will say all you men out there would be utterly horrified by it. I wouldn't even do what she did to a rapist.

The police were called, of course. They were told who'd done what, and worked out that two of the attackers had driven off whilst clearly drunk. They promised me all would be arrested ASAP.

It's now a week ago and the four attackers haven't been arrested, nor have they even been visited by the police. The officer in charge took my statement on sunday and hasn't been heard of since, instead sending a civilian 'officer' of some sort to me yesterday to ask I drop the charges. They haven't even taken Mick's statement yet.

Yes, I and my partner are attacked by drunken youths and we are asked to take no action at all - despite my still black eye and Mick's injuries.

There's no wonder people get let off with that kind of attitude :(

I asked the 'officer' how long before these idiots kill somebody who dares to ask they turn down their music? I asked him how bad I would feel if they did kill somebody having already been let off for attacking me. He honestly didn't seem to care about that, all he was bothered about was that if they were charged they would probably have trouble getting jobs and passports in the future!

Seriously, as a victim, the police are making me feel like a savage attacker myself - and blaming me for criminals not being able to get a nice New York break!

[Jag_Warrior]

Even in the States, you might have a problem. If I follow what you're saying, you might be arrested for assaulting the first hooligan, because you went into the street(?) and threw the first punch. Once you opened the door and were punched, clearly someone assaulted you. What happened with your partner, I don't quite understand. I understand that emotion takes over when someone comes on or near your property and causes trouble. But I'm a muscled up, 6'3" gun toting 'Murican. And even I wouldn't go outside at night to deal with multiple thugs. Only in Hollywood can one person win a fight against three or four... and I don't live near Hollyweird.

I'd certainly call the police (which it sounds like you did). But I'd then pick the pump shotgun or a heavy magnum... and wait for an uninvited "visitor" to step across the threshhold of my door. Outside ones home, in the U.S., using deadly force becomes iffy (unless you're a cop... then you can shoot anybody, anytime, 30 or 40 times). And if you're in the public street "throwing down", it really is a no win situation. At that point, you're not defending yourself or your property.

Really sorry to hear that this happened to you. I know nothing about the laws in the U.K., but is carrying pepper spray or tear gas legal? If it is, that's the most effective nonlethal equalizer that I know of. And no, I would not drop the charges. But there's a chance that they might charge you too.

[Breeze]

Hazell, I can't tell you how sorry I am to hear of this happening to you and your man. I hope his recovery is complete and rapid.

As for the police, how worthless can you possible get. Its that kind of lack of accountability that gives rise to vigilantism.

At the very least you could resort to civil court, though I doubt the louts have any assets to claim.

Though you may disagree with me, I suggest you get a good auto or pump shotgun. For self defense in your own home, of course.

[Daniel]

I'm sorry Hazell but you took the first swing. In court that will always make you look like the aggressor.

If you honestly feel it will stand up in court and you won't get charged yourself then make an official complaint but if you threw the first punch I suspect you'll be the one in the ****.

I hope yourself and Mick have no long lasting effects. If something happens next time let them be the aggressors. The end result will not be any different other than the fact that they'll be the ones in the ****.

[Daniel]

Though you may disagree with me, I suggest you get a good auto or pump shotgun. For self defense in your own home, of course.

To be honest in this situation I myself don't disagree. A shot fired over the head of anyone will send them packing as long as you make it painfully obvious that there's another barrel, another round and some lead just waiting to kiss flesh if they want to push their luck.

[Jag_Warrior]

To be honest in this situation I myself don't disagree. A shot fired over the head of anyone will send them packing as long as you make it painfully obvious that there's another barrel, another round and some lead just waiting to kiss flesh if they want to push their luck.

Again, I know nothing about the laws in the U.K. But discharging a firearm in a situation like this in the U.S. would surely get you a free ride in the back of a marked car. Discharging, or even brandishing a firearm is a serious offense. And what happens if one of the thugs is armed? Do you get into a shootout? Remember, she was not on her property 100% of the time. Initially (from her account), they were in the street at some point. Introducing a firearm into this situation (even in a place like the southern U.S.) just seems like it could be legally very messy. And even if you're "in the right", when you are outside at night and there are multiple people involved against you, you can't keep track of where they all are at all times, and you don't have any way of knowing which, if any, are armed. Even to a well armed cop, that would be a nightmare situation.

I don't know what the "right" answer is. And it's a whole lot easier to give unemotional advice from in front of my computer, days after it's happened. If it's true that the laws in the U.K. are more like California than where I live (criminals are just misunderstood members of society, and property owners should be more understanding of the poor creatures' social defects), Hazell was between a rock & a hard place, no matter how you cut it.

The main thing is, you're alive to tell the tale, Hazell. Hopefully your friend recovers well and the worst thing that's hurt are your feelings. I used to buy rental properties in dicey areas of town. To know what I could and couldn't do (and still maintain my safety), I asked a cop I knew. My options were probably broader than yours, being in the U.S. If you have a gun don't take it outside. But I would ask about the pepper spray that I mentioned. Do not use it in a strong wind (I say from testing some in a breeze), but I kid you not, it will take a rabid Rottweiler down like he was a poodle puppy.

Hopefully they never come back and bother you. But if they do, fog them with the spray and then spend some "quality time" with them. Remember "A Clockwork Orange"? Payback is hell, eh? ;)

[fandango]

The worst thing about this whole sorry story is that you don't feel safe. You'll recover (I hope) quickly from the physical side of it, but you don't forget that when you needed the police you couldn't rely on them. It shouldn't all depend on who was first to throw a punch. This was a public order issue that went too far, but the police should be there to keep order, not show up afterwards and try to find the quickest way out of doing paperwork.

I would go to your local politician and hassle them about it, see if they can pressure the police about where they've let you down.

[GridGirl]

To be honest Hazel, I would have been suprised if you'd said the police had acted in any other way than they have.

It was a big daft swinging that first punch. I was half expecting to read they were also pressing charges upon you. I don't want to bring up old stories but just look what ended up happening to Tony Martin etc.

Maybe its time to start writng one of those log books and getting CCTV instslled.

[Drew]

Hazell this is awful, but I think you'll have to be more persistant with the police :\

It makes you wonder why you can't just get a baseball bat and smack them, if they can do that to you and not have any problems...

[Azumanga Davo]

I'm sorry Hazell but you took the first swing. In court that will always make you look like the aggressor.

If you honestly feel it will stand up in court and you won't get charged yourself then make an official complaint but if you threw the first punch I suspect you'll be the one in the ****.

I hope yourself and Mick have no long lasting effects. If something happens next time let them be the aggressors. The end result will not be any different other than the fact that they'll be the ones in the ****.

That's still no reason for them to enter your property and act like general pr***s, no matter what.

[Daniel]

Of course. But up until Hazell took a swing there was no physical violence involved.

[Easy Drifter]

Sounds like the cops are taking the Fido approach. F--- it. Drive on.
Even use of pepper spray can result in charges in Canada. Producing a gun will result in a charge of "pointing a firearm".
Go after a politician about the cops and see if you can get a newspaper involved. If any local paper has a crime beat reporter or human interest writer those are good starting points. You probably have more chance with a local paper.

[gadjo_dilo]

This would be a good lesson for me. I also have the same impulse when my gipsy neighbours make noise. Sometimes I "dare" to speak my mind and my friends say I'm crazy to fight with them.

I thought only our corrupted police would act like this. In my case police is just 4 houses away from gypsies but never take measures to quiet them. The gypsies use to party in the middle of the street and police cars come slowly, wait patiently until they make way and pass as everything is alright.

Although what you did was dangerous and you exposed yourself I still admire your courage. But don't want to think what else could happen as they were many and stronger than you, not to mention they were drunk.

[Spoonbender]

I am sickened by reading this, Hazell you and your partner have my full support. How the hell are we going to stamp out this wave of yobbishness if there are no consequences for their actions. The police should take them down, and take them down hard, make examples of them.
This also isn't helped by this government just handing out money to these people so they can spend the day in the pub. A figure came out yesterday about the thousands who are on benefits, not just any benefits, £30,000 a year!!!!! I'm married with 4 kids, both me and my Wife work and we pull in about £24,000 a year. where's the justice??

Hazell, get the papers involved and speak to your local MP, they always love to get involved (and get themselves in the paper) seriously email your story to The Sun, link it to this thread and let's see these yobs named and shamed in the newspapers.

[cosmicpanda]

and if your local MP doesn't want to get involved, speak to the opposition :p :

[Rudy Tamasz]

I'm afraid it's a lost cause now. You should have stuck to one option. Either you restore the justice yourself or you call the law. You chose the first option and the second option closed. Now they can sue you for throwing the first punch.

[Roamy]

God guns are great!! Knock on my door and try to assault me!!

[leopard]

Hey ... He heard you! :)



In the end, I just swung for one of them, punching him before he could punch me. Being small, it wasn't much of a punch and he just laughed at me. Then I went back to bed.
You might need some training to give some uppercut to those higher than you, It works perfectly. :)

[anthonyvop]

Get a Gun!

Oh...Wait....Your government doesn't trust you with one.

Don't worry...the police will protect you....Oh.

Ok...Now explain to me how control is a good thing!

[Jag_Warrior]

Get a Gun!

Oh...Wait....Your government doesn't trust you with one.

Don't worry...the police will protect you....Oh.

Ok...Now explain to me how control is a good thing!

I'm an NRA Life Member, Anthony. And if they'd kept taking sh## from that wet noodle (fiscal) liberal, George Bush I, I would have probably followed the crowd over to the GOA. But this situation would have needed to go in another direction for a gun to have been useful or helpful.

Going outside in the night, against a group, with a gun would have probably just made a bad situation worse, IMO.

An intruder inside your home? Well, in "right thinking" states... then it all comes down to how merciful you choose to be. But outside? Worst case, you get surprised and loose control of your weapon... and wind up dead. 2nd worst case, you mistakenly shoot an innocent and wind up in a cage for the rest of your life.

Emotions are hard to control. But never go outside til the cops arrive. It's a good rule that's hard to follow (I stand guilty of violating it myself).

[Roamy]

I'm an NRA Life Member, Anthony. And if they'd kept taking sh## from that wet noodle (fiscal) liberal, George Bush I, I would have probably followed the crowd over to the GOA. But this situation would have needed to go in another direction for a gun to have been useful or helpful.

Going outside in the night, against a group, with a gun would have probably just made a bad situation worse, IMO.

An intruder inside your home? Well, in "right thinking" states... then it all comes down to how merciful you choose to be. But outside? Worst case, you get surprised and loose control of your weapon... and wind up dead. 2nd worst case, you mistakenly shoot an innocent and wind up in a cage for the rest of your life.

Emotions are hard to control. But never go outside til the cops arrive. It's a good rule that's hard to follow (I stand guilty of violating it myself).

Whoa I hope real violence never comes your way
The idea is to live in peace not in fear. Guns -= Peace hard for the
unfortunate to understand but this is true

[Jag_Warrior]

Whoa I hope real violence never comes your way
The idea is to live in peace not in fear. Guns -= Peace hard for the
unfortunate to understand but this is true

I have no idea what you mean. Guns = Peace? What does that mean? I don't recall saying that I'd ever shot anyone... nor that I'd ever been shot. I wouldn't want to shoot or kill anyone, but more so, I wouldn't want to be shot or killed (or wind up in court for going off the deep end in a situation). So acting like Marshall Dillon does not work (legally or practically) in the real world.

Again, I don't know what the meaning of your reply is. Peace is a state of being and fear is a state of mind. A gun is nothing more than a tool, which might contribute to one or the other. But a gun does not equal or guarantee either one. If there was any such guarantee, cops wouldn't need to wear kevlar vests, in addition to the .40's on their hips... and so many patrol cops wouldn't be emotional wrecks.

[J4MIE]

I feel nothing but sympathy for you Hazell as we are experiencing the delights of youths (god I am feeling old!) continually come and kick our front door/windows then run off. It's got to the point that it's every evening, but of course the police aren't interested :( We are just waiting for them to start on our cars next, they have already scratched a neighbours.

What can you do? I mean, normally I am the type that just ignores it but as it's almost continual I feel like chasing them down and giving them a good seeing to :mad: However, I don't want to end up in jail. But chasing them off will only result in them picking easier targets-the cars...

What can you legally do to put them off? :s

[leopard]

I think because mostly home there are without fence so that they can free and easy knocking the door. Here, aboriginal resident are usually fine without fence, but in residence for visitors are usually equipped with the fence.

A month ago I renovated the fence because another car need the carport so during that period my home practically without fence. What a surprise in a morning I found stuff in the front yard in wrong order and found also some scratch in the car, although none of them stolen. What have made me disbelieve on my eyes because from my hidden camera I saw person, identified as father of youth, we have known each other.

He might feel that I know finding him guilty. For one or two weeks he showed strange character while also invited relatives to cover him from possibility of my attack. I laughed myself because other than knowing how really he is I will not do anything to him to avoid breaking our relationship.

[Roamy]

I have no idea what you mean. Guns = Peace? What does that mean? I don't recall saying that I'd ever shot anyone... nor that I'd ever been shot. I wouldn't want to shoot or kill anyone, but more so, I wouldn't want to be shot or killed (or wind up in court for going off the deep end in a situation). So acting like Marshall Dillon does not work (legally or practically) in the real world.

Again, I don't know what the meaning of your reply is. Peace is a state of being and fear is a state of mind. A gun is nothing more than a tool, which might contribute to one or the other. But a gun does not equal or guarantee either one. If there was any such guarantee, cops wouldn't need to wear kevlar vests, in addition to the .40's on their hips... and so many patrol cops wouldn't be emotional wrecks.

11MM is much worse that a .40. But the guy that is gonna shoot the patrol cop is not you or I but the CRIMINAL who will have guns regardless of the law. Ours are basically for the homefront and certainly will deter unwanted entry.

[Garry Walker]

Disgusting case, unfortunately an event too common these days.

How low self-esteem must one have, how worthless must a man feel to actually hit a woman and then gang up on someone. Pathetic ****s. I would quite like to meet them actually.

What a weak performance by the police too, and again not unsurprising. They must have been busy hunting for some guy who dared to say he doesn`t support gay marriages. Priorities, priorities...

Best wishes for the recovery. The physical part will be much easier to heal than the mental scar.

[Hazell B]

As for the police, how worthless can you possible get. Its that kind of lack of accountability that gives rise to vigilantism.



It seems the local police have realised they've rather let certain areas of their work slip in this street, as since my little 'encounter' we've had nothing but PCSO's and patrol cars all over the place :) I was arrested, as I had openly said I'd punched the youth already, and am on bail at the moment. However, having suddenly remembered their injuries and dismay, the youths I launched at all made impossible statements when they were eventually arrested. It seems I tried to strangle one of them ..... :rolleyes:

Anyway, I don't think for one moment the police believe a word they've said, so all will end up well for me. Even if I'm fined or something, I frankly feel it worth every inconvenience as the music and obnoxious behavior has stopped. Mick's tattered manhood has healed and my savage black eye (the worst I've ever had, even after owning horses all my life!) only lasted about two weeks.

The youth still lives two doors away, but is now alone. His girlfriend left him, taking the baby they have, and his mates haven't come back. New mates appear sometimes, but keep quiet. The local council have threatened to evict him if there's any more trouble. I even rang his boss and left a message on the answer phone telling him just what I thought of his nasty workforce :D




Though you may disagree with me, I suggest you get a good auto or pump shotgun. For self defense in your own home, of course.

Naw, here we have antique cricket bats by the door ;)
'Tis England, you know :laugh: