Minardi out

[anthonyvop]

Add Minardi to the list of teams taking a pass on the IRL.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/65634


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Stoddart rules out IRL campaign

By Jonathan Noble & Steven English Wednesday, March 12th 2008, 08:47 GMT

Robert Doornbos, Minardi Team USA, Champ Car Surfer's ParadisePaul Stoddart has decided not to enter his Minardi Team USA in the Indy Racing League this season.

He doesn't think the team, who ran Robert Doornbos to third in the Champ Car standings last season, could be competitive in their first year of IRL with the merger coming together so close to the start of the season.

When asked by autosport.com, he said: "I did enough tugging round at the back to know I don't want to do it again. I had a taste of victory last year and it was very nice, so I'll just take a sabbatical and see what happens.

"I think realistically 2010 is the first opportunity for Champ Car teams to become competitive, when the new car comes."

Stoddart believes the unification of open-wheel racing in North America was for the best, but doesn't think many Champ Car teams will make the switch for 2008.

"What happened was good for North American motorsport, it had to happen. But it wasn't beneficial for any of the Champ Car teams. In anything like this there are winners and losers and all the Champ Car teams were the losers.

"Newman/Haas will be there or thereabouts but I don't think we'll see many other teams go across there. Not because they don't want to, but with four weeks until the start of the season it's a pretty big ask to change your entire operating facility to a car you've never seem, on ovals you've never raced on, and to go out and be competitive."

But Stoddart will field cars in the one-off Champ Car event at Long Beach next month.

"We're going to have fun! I'm going to really enjoy that weekend and we're going all out to do the best job we can for the last ever Champ Car race.

"More above anything else, Champ Car stood for entertainment and fun. I will be sad afterwards as it's the end of an era, but it's overwhelmingly right for North American motorsport to reunify."

[Rudy Tamasz]

A bad business decision if you ask me. If you want to have a chance in 2010 you have to sweat through 2008 and maybe 2009 at the back of the pack. But if Stoddy doesn't seriously think about ever joining IRL it's a decent excuse.

[jimispeed]

This is what I thought would be happening.......

Should have struggled through this year as "Champcar" for a farewell season, done Indy and a couple of Indycar races towards the end of the season, and Indycar would have been a merge that had many more stages of planning for the teams and fans....

Hope this "merge" eventually works.....

[rpralon]

Forshyte, Walker, Minardi are out... maybe RocketSports, Pacific, Dale Coyne.... almost half of CC grid .

This merge is starting worse than many pessimists thought. :(

[MAX_THRUST]

shame............think the reason is pathetic. I thought the crap wagons were easy to set up and drive, seems some ccws teams have changed their opinion........ They would easily be up to speed by Indy. How hard can it be to set up a car to go full throttle all race? After all they are race engineers.

Is this to do with the fact the IRL isn't going to Surfers? Maybe A1 GP is getting surfers this year then!!!!

[BobGarage]

Is this to do with the fact the IRL isn't going to Surfers? Maybe A1 GP is getting surfers this year then!!!!
Surfers isn't going to A1GP.

As per Tony George: "The Gold Coast Indy has become one of the worlds truely great motorsports events and we are delighted it will be part of the IndyCar Series schedule"

[mikiec]

Unless something's changed, the IRL has renewed the contract with Surfers for IIRC the next five years.

[Claus Hansen]

TG need to start dumping races, if CC teams are gonna race in the merged series, its to expensive at the moment... Most of the teams was racing on team owners money...

Anybody knows the price for a car in IRL, 2 - 3 - 4 mill or higher ?

[downtowndeco]

TG need to start dumping races, if CC teams are gonna race in the merged series, its to expensive at the moment... Most of the teams was racing on team owners money...

Anybody knows the price for a car in IRL, 2 - 3 - 4 mill or higher ?

True, it may be a little more expensive to run in the IRL. But for the first time in 14 years, they can tell potential sponsors, "YES, we are the series that races in the Indy 500. We're the series Danica, Helio, Foyt and Andretti race in."

I think some of the CC teams have been so beaten down by the sponsors the last 4 years they don't know what a "yes" would sound like any more.

[Chris R]

According to AR1 the team will be going - just no Stoddart - so no bfd right now.....

Any way you cut it, the sport will be better off than it would have been without the "merger". Neither series was looking a more than 18 cars - an both could have been less.... Nobody seemed to realistically think that a merge was going to result in a 30-36 car field - most estimates were 22-26 cars and that is where it will be....

I think a lot of these guys are playing around seeing if they can get a better deal - it is pretty much what has been happening in Champcar for the past several seasons - teams wait until the last minute to try to squeeze the series for more welfare...

There is still a rough road ahead - but it is a better road than we were on 3 months ago....

[garyshell]

According to AR1 the team will be going - just no Stoddart...


Huh???? What does that mean?

Gary

[BobGarage]

Huh???? What does that mean?

Gary

well the team was originally HVM, so Keith Wiggins will be taking the team to the IRL, presumably back under the HVM banner.

All that is gone is stoddart and the Minardi name.

[bblocker68]

So Wiggins is back to the beginning. I wonder if he could partner up with Walker?? Just a wild thought, no facts to prove it here.

If this is the worst news we're going to hear, it's still better than the catastrophic let down last year was. We were all so hopefull that the DP-01 was going to save Champcar and I for one was crippled with disappointment when it brought only PCM into the mix. We were so confident that we would see 24 cars last year. Champcar only got weaker in my opinion and my outlook on the whole AWOR climate changed, wanting the 2 sides to finally give up and join forces.

Overall I'm happy it had happened and I know we will get stronger from this. It's just going to take some time and a lot of hard work.

[DBell]

well the team was originally HVM, so Keith Wiggins will be taking the team to the IRL, presumably back under the HVM banner.

All that is gone is stoddart and the Minardi name.


I'm wondering where Wiggins will get the money. If the team was funded, I'll bet Stoddart would've come along. I think he decided he wasn't going to fund the team out of his own pocket. I can't blame him for that. Wiggins always seemed to scraping by before, probably with funds from CC.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

well the team was originally HVM, so Keith Wiggins will be taking the team to the IRL, presumably back under the HVM banner.

All that is gone is stoddart and the Minardi name.

And some money, too. I wonder if Wiggins will have to figure out a name for the team now? It started out as Bettenhausen, became Herdez thanks to sponsorship, then HVM (Herdez Viva Mexico), CTE-HVM (Cedric the Entertainer-Herdez Viva Mexico) and lastly Minardi Team USA...

[BobGarage]

I'm wondering where Wiggins will get the money. If the team was funded, I'll bet Stoddart would've come along. I think he decided he wasn't going to fund the team out of his own pocket. I can't blame him for that. Wiggins always seemed to scraping by before, probably with funds from CC.

the rumours in HVM's last season (2006) was that the team was part owned by KK and that he sold his stake in the team to Stoddart for 2007.
It was always a cash strapped team after herdez left and before stoddart arrived.

unless keith has a sponsor lined up i can see him struggling to get on the grid.

[!!WALDO!!]

A bad business decision if you ask me. If you want to have a chance in 2010 you have to sweat through 2008 and maybe 2009 at the back of the pack. But if Stoddy doesn't seriously think about ever joining IRL it's a decent excuse.

I agree and I doubt he will be back in 2010.

[Cart750hp]

well the team was originally HVM, so Keith Wiggins will be taking the team to the IRL, presumably back under the HVM banner.

All that is gone is stoddart and the Minardi name.

Yep, that's what they say in IndyCar.com.

HVM/Keith is going to IRL with his old team.

The lineup is now 25 cars....that's without HVM and DCR's driver lineup.

[BobGarage]

notice the article says they will field 3 cars at long beach.

long beach car count is looking up.

[pits4me]

well the team was originally HVM, so Keith Wiggins will be taking the team to the IRL, presumably back under the HVM banner.

All that is gone is stoddart and the Minardi name.

Which makes sense for his specific racing brand.

[call_me_andrew]

shame............think the reason is pathetic. I thought the crap wagons were easy to set up and drive, seems some ccws teams have changed their opinion........ They would easily be up to speed by Indy. How hard can it be to set up a car to go full throttle all race? After all they are race engineers.

Pullrod suspenions can be difficult to adjust. And they're already pretty clunky on road courses.

[F1boat]

What did you expect from paul? He bashed and badmouthed F1, after racing there - that's how loyal is he.

[mikiec]

Pullrod suspenions can be difficult to adjust. And they're already pretty clunky on road courses.

Is that why some teams used the Panoz/Gforce chassis on road courses? I believe they have pushrod suspension.

Is the Panoz/GForce totally outlawed in the IRL now?

Which makes sense for his specific racing brand.

I'm sorry, but the 'Minardi' name running in any single-make series and buying a chassis from another manufacturer NEVER made any sense in relation to the 'Minardi' brand.

All Stoddart has ever done is drag the Minardi name down, and that includes his use of the name in ChampCar.

Minardi always built their own cars until Stoddart took the name to the US and *******ized it.

The best thing that could have happened to the new and unified series is that it doesn't have Paul Stoddart involved anywhere.

[F1boat]

I'm sorry, but the 'Minardi' name running in any single-make series and buying a chassis from another manufacturer NEVER made any sense in relation to the 'Minardi' brand.

All Stoddart has ever done is drag the Minardi name down, and that includes his use of the name in ChampCar.

Minardi always built their own cars until Stoddart took the name to the US and *******ized it.

The best thing that could have happened to the new and unified series is that it doesn't have Paul Stoddart involved anywhere.

Out of F1, out of Indy Car - he might try to get kicked out of NASCAR as well. Grand Slam of stupidity.

[Hoop-98]

Pullrod suspenions can be difficult to adjust. And they're already pretty clunky on road courses.

I don't believe you are correct, they have some advantages in cg, but they are hard if not impossible to do in a high nose car. High nose cars of course are reactions to F1 or similar aero rules, or in some cases where "euro styling" is desired.

From F1 Technical

Pull rods were first brought to Formula 1 by Gordon Murray with Brabham in the 70s but now all formula one teams make use of the push rods, as pull rods are quite hard to implement in a high nosed car. The advantages of a pull rod lie in the possibility to make the nose lower, assemble most suspension parts lower to the ground and thus lowering the height of the center of gravity.

For more google pushrod vs pullrod.

I would say the two biggest challenges are the open shock rules and the aero development. But these were all part of CC, the shocks as recently as one year ago.
rh

[call_me_andrew]

I read an article Steve Matchett wrote about working on the McLaren's MP4/5. It had a low nose and a pullrod suspension.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cf/Mclaren_mp4_5.jpg

Pullrod suspenions were out of F1 before high noses came in. The CG advantage was minimized by the use of light weight carbon fiber.

High nose vs. low nose isn't a matter of style. High nose cars allow more air to flow to the side pods and under the nose. This improves diffuser effiency in low speed turns. A low nose is better for the constant high speeds you see on an oval track.

[!!WALDO!!]

Is the Panoz/GForce totally outlawed in the IRL now?

Nope.

[Hoop-98]

I read an article Steve Matchett wrote about working on the McLaren's MP4/5. It had a low nose and a pullrod suspension.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cf/Mclaren_mp4_5.jpg

Pullrod suspenions were out of F1 before high noses came in. The CG advantage was minimized by the use of light weight carbon fiber.

High nose vs. low nose isn't a matter of style. High nose cars allow more air to flow to the side pods and under the nose. This improves diffuser effiency in low speed turns. A low nose is better for the constant high speeds you see on an oval track.

Wow, I need to check out these carbon fiber shocks :)

As I said there are plenty of opinions out ther eif you search,

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=umb&q=pushrod+vs+pullrod+F1&btnG=Search

But most lean towards the packaging and fitment in the cars who's shape were determined by aero rules.

The Dallara turns in very respectable times considering it's 75 BHP disadvantage (125 w p2p) and no option tire.

As far as opinions, care to share any sources for the data that helped you form yours?

rh

[call_me_andrew]

It has more to do with the mounting points than the shocks. And F1 cars have switched to torsion bars instead of coil springs.

Well the information about high noses and low noses came from F1technical.

http://www.f1technical.net/articles/15

I can't find the speedtv.com article Matchett wrote for some reason.

[grungex]

I would say the two biggest challenges are the open shock rules and the aero development. But these were all part of CC, the shocks as recently as one year ago.
rh

The shock rules were not nearly as open in CC one year ago as they are in the IRL now, nor were the aero rules. One of the reasons the IRL is more expensive to run...

[Hoop-98]

The shock rules were not nearly as open in CC one year ago as they are in the IRL now, nor were the aero rules. One of the reasons the IRL is more expensive to run...

of course, the more spec the cheaper.....

[grungex]

Indeed, I was merely pointing out that the level of "open" differed greatly between the two series...

[VkmSpouge]

A shame no Minardi for IndyCar but at least the team should continue.

[gofastandwynn]

Is the Panoz/GForce totally outlawed in the IRL now?

Yes and no. Because the new side impact safety additions were not developed for the Panoz they are not eligible to run in the IRL with the exception of the Indy 500. There is will be legal. The same goes for paddle shifters, they are spec for the IRL season but not for the Indy 500.

[Jag_Warrior]

True, it may be a little more expensive to run in the IRL. But for the first time in 14 years, they can tell potential sponsors, "YES, we are the series that races in the Indy 500. We're the series Danica, Helio, Foyt and Andretti race in."

Judging by how well that's brought IRL teams sponsorship, maybe time for a Plan B?

An idea: pull out Danica's swimsuit spread and it might distract the potential sponsor, so he doesn't ask about ratings or sponsor exposure values. If that doesn't work and he keeps asking those annoying data related questions, pull out Milka's MPH spread from a couple of years back (:eek :) . Now if that doesn't work, there are two possibilities: either the dude is ghey... (and/) or, he knows what he's doing: past performance and returns mean more to him and his company, than just turning fanboi over some name dropping.

[Jag_Warrior]

The best thing that could have happened to the new and unified series is that it doesn't have Paul Stoddart involved anywhere.

Well, if that's the best thing that's going to happen, I guess we're in for a toe shootin' good time, eh?

I guess I would set higher standards for success: the announcement of a title sponsor to open the '08 season, the announcement of Hendrick, Roush and Gibbs joining the series with satellite teams, Michael Schumacher announcing that he's going to try Indy in '08, etc.

But since we all know that none of those things are realistic thoughts... yeah, I guess the best we can do is follow the (same old, same old) AOWR argument that spins a negative into a positive.